What Programming Languages Does KDE Use?

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[@arkvsi8142]

I will make my own KDE written in COBOL and that actually let the panel float without getting bigger

[@sirgermaine]

You'd have to use kobol to stay on brand

[@sergiotombesi378]

Thanks for explaining all this Niccolò. Finally it makes sense.

[@ankur-dhama]

QML sounds weird name for this language. Usually when you hear markup language it means something based on XML whereas QML looks more like JavaScript and Json like structure.

[@yeppiidev]

serenityos's GML is inspired by QML btw

[@kavinunethsarakoswattage3516]

Well, Markup languages does not neccessarily need to use a SGML style syntax ( as in HTML, XML etc. ) Infact, before SGML/HTML, markup languaged didn't use this syntax. And there are still some popular Markup languages which doesn't use SGML syntax, like MarkDown. For refference, here is the Markup Language definition from WikiPedia/Encyclopedia Britanica: "markup language, standard text-encoding system consisting of a set of symbols inserted in a text document to control its structure, formatting, or the relationship between its parts. " As QML is used to layout controls and define relationship of their properties, it most definitely is a Markup Language. ( A programming language is usually defined as a language use to define logic and algorithms for execution)

[@Chr0n0s38]

When I hear markup my first thought is markdown and related, not XML.

[@treyquattro]

you had me going with Scala!

[@JoanCermeno]

Good video. I love how you talk. And also as you shed light on this topic, I am Joan Cermeño I am from Venezuela, a junior backend programmer in JavaScript without much experience but with great admiration for KDE applications and I would love to learn how to create UI for KDE. Who knows maybe I could even live on that. Don't you think?

[@dexterman6361]

I guess the more important distinction is, how often is the JS executed (or re-interpreted?). For example, if I'm on a 144Hz screen, obviously the whole UI isn't going to refresh each cycle, but when I click a button, what part is redrawn? If JS in interpreted (or even JIT compiled code is run), I think this hot path execution having JS or JIT-JS is still bad from an efficiency pov. But I'm no UI dev, heck I'm no proper dev at all lol. So I don't know the impact. Would be interesting to see what a flame graph or something like that looks like. Notably, for example, firefox has(had?) issues rendering itself on high refresh rate screens, and that tends to waste CPU cycles. I guess we're at a point where hardware is getting faster, but some of it is going to be used to simplify abstractions. I'm not saying that's bad, but I find it interesting.

[@guilherme5094]

Very interesting👍.

[@ANGELRA]

I think that the javascript scripts can be rewritten in typescript for being easy to maintain, but I don't know how kde uses javascript, so there might be limitations that I don't know.

[@watynecc3309]

OH NICE

[@5Hydroxytryptophan]

It would be really nice if there was a usable IDE for KDE widgets and stuff.. the workflow I ended up with feels so sluggish. Any tips/tutorials?

[@BogdanTestsSoftware]

Could there be Typescript support in Qt/ KDE/ Plasma?

[@Sahil-cb6im]

im learning javascritp,i know the vanila javascript,html css,bootstrap and now started learnng angular.i dont have a project experience,i dont know how.How i can contribute to plasma with my current knowledge.

[@teamshadows]

well i watch your videos bcoz i found some one whose english is on same level as me 😆 well just kidding your videos are great

[@EthanLR]

Why'd QT make QML rather than use an established markup / serialization language like JSON or YAML (like a lot of enterprise software does)?

[@samega7cattac]

They needed to have a makeup language that has built-in logic programming

[@kavinunethsarakoswattage3516]

@@samega7cattac And it also needed to be Declarative

[@merthyr1831]

Curious about how you feel about Flutter for linux app dev :)

[@arkvsi8142]

Flutter = Google = monopoly

[@PakoSt]

Depends there (as with anything else really). There are amazing positives but caveats as well. Flutter is *UI* framework and it does its job incredibly well. I find Dart to be awesome tbh As long as you treat Flutter as UI framework and don't try to force... system level logic(? not sure how to word it) things will go well. Now the tricky bit comes with the embedder for the system. The "officially" endorsed one is using GTK which could... have its issues with KDE environment. I don't care about the Snap part and that's easy to ignore as that's just the packaging - you can completely ignore it. There are a few unofficial ones with "slimmer" embedder and it should be fairly straight forward to make a Qt wrapper. Maybe someone thought of SDL one? Haven't searched for one thus far tbh. You can go DRM mode as well so pick your poison there 🙂 The main thing with Flutter is that you rely for integration to the system through these embedders. Think camera interfaces, video playback, etc,etc On mobile, these layers are constantly worked on and are quite mature. On desktop - there are ways to go and Linux has its definite quirks stemming from the various possible combinations. If GTK or Qt are doing the hard work to communicate with the camera for example and Flutter can piggy-back on those - it will work well. If there is a quirk in the framework used for the embedder, it will be inherited to the Flutter UI side. If you need to make the bridge to ffmpeg yourself or lets say Wayland protocol implementations - that requires knowledge of the base system and won't be "automagic" like it is for iOS or Android for example. That is both a Pro and a Con depending on how you look at it. What I do find with Flutter which I feel is missing from both Kirigami and GTK implementations however is the testing. It's bloody impressive how good the testability of Flutter projects is no matter which layer you are interested in. Unit tests - fine all of them are good at that. Integration tests and up? Oh, boy, things look different and do believe Flutter has a definite advantage for automation there. Dart going the type safe route is also eliminating a large portion of potential breaks. A peculiarity with Flutter during development has to be the infra required to run it. You can make GTK/ Qt/ Kirigami/ SDL2 program with just a few basic tools from the command line. Flutter takes more space and isn't as slim from my observations on the PinePhone and Pinebook Pro in debug mode (Dart VM running in the background to facilitate hot reload and such). Plus it still needs to compile the wrapper. But at the same time, the heavier debug mode brings all of the nice things along with it on Flutter 🙂 Pros and Cons everywhere. And I bet we will see a lot of the Flutter techniques, flows or ideas finding their way to other UI frameworks. Some things are already obvious to see, other will take time to propagate especially in FOSS environments.

[@ankur-dhama]

@@arkvsi8142 Flutter and Dart are open source projects, just because they are from Google doest make them "monopoly" (whatever that means in this context)

[@keit99]

@@ankur-dhama it certainly is a monopoly (if most flutter devs are from google, If google says foo must be in there an bar isn't they'll do exactly that) open source does not mean there can't be a monopoly (the more stuff from google a dev uses the more they will be dependant on google).

[@ankur-dhama]

@@keit99 but isn't that the case with any software (No matter if it open source or not). The core team that maintains and develop it will have the final say in what goes in what doesn't. You can raise PR or file a bug report, but the core team decides what to approve and reject.

[@moumnalmunawy1806]

Will KDE realese more apps for mobile?

[@amaanq8649]

why would it? and like what?

[@vaisakhkm783]

Now everything is going rust.. any idea will ever rust start coming to kde? not for 1 app, but as a main language... wait? do you had something on your lips? ring or something? thanks for reducing speed of light changing

[@keit99]

You know rewriting every kde application in rust would take years and is not exactly feasable in a short amount of time. Edit: also it would just be another kde4 moment (with endless regressions, for potentially little gain )

[@kingofgamesyamiyami6269]

As someone who's actually used rust... I doubt it. Rust Qt interop is pretty terrible due to the Qt design not mapping well to Rust concepts. And I highly doubt KDE would want to redo their entire graphics stack.

[@keit99]

@@kingofgamesyamiyami6269 I haven't used rust, but I figured smth like that might be the case. And Qt isn't only UI but it's deeply ingrained in system level too, which limits portability even more. (One of the reasons even a GTK(mm) port would be far too much work already

[@WildWestDesigns]

I've looked at Rust GUIs and from everyone that I have seen (most were what I called alpha(sometimes they just said "experimental" on their repo, but to me that means alpha over say beta), they almost all called C/C++ libs in the background (I personally don't remember seeing one that didn't call a C/C++ lib, but I haven't looked at them all). So even though what the individual developer may be writing in Rust (their project's repo may only be in Rust etc), they are still calling C/C++ in the background with their dependencies. Until that is also handled, it's hard to say that it's a pure Rust implementation (at least to me) and I don't know if that would ever come to pass, at least not in the near term as that is a lot of tech history embedded in some of those areas. This is why I have a hard time with saying Rust is a C/C++ replacement, in a lot of areas, it's still calling C/C++ code to do some really important stuff. Alternative yes, replacement, not quite there yet.

[@valeth6472]

@@WildWestDesigns As far as I know iced doesn't use any foreign toolkit under the hood. It can be themed to match Qt or GTK though I think.

[@Luxcium]

Why it is better to use JavaScript than TypeScript ??? I am using vscode... I did not quit Windows because of the KDE Code editor... but for a million other unrelated reasons...

[@5Hydroxytryptophan]

It is not. TS is super-set of JS and transpiled into JS. The fact that QML is older than TS might be one reason it is not used (yet?).

[@oakld]

I hate java* too, that's why I opted for PyQt...

[@KomoreBithrows]

Well, javascript is not as slow as you you think. And it can be compiled by the way. As well as qml.

[@lazyh0rse]

For javascript haters, use typescript, literally night and day. Javascript is still king, I'm yet to find a language that has bigger community than javascript.

[@BogdanTestsSoftware]

I would like that too, but afaik there's no Typescript support in Qt

[@jinliu1198]

QML is really having the worst of both worlds. It's "declarative" so order of execution is not obvious at all. But it's not functional so order of execution still matters. QML code is fragile, esp. when doing complex layouts. And start any Plasma apps from terminal, you'll see tons of QML errors and warnings. The code is not working by design, but by trial-and-error.