What Racers Don´t Understand About Freeskiing (for Good Skiers only)

[@beattheclock7509]

Before watching the whole thing.. or after watching the Video and being confused about what was said, here is a more compact and maybe better Video which talks about the same thing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYGknmmeqNSXmdU

[@douglasmac108]

speaking as an old ski instructor I can tell you that all racers Understand this Perfectly.

[@beattheclock7509]

I´m glad your Racers understand this well! My experience is a little different;)

[@mrsmartypants_1]

Yep as an ex-racer I agree 100%. It’s fundamental knowledge all young racers are made aware of (or discover on their own). Excellent rec skiers who have no racing experience may not be cognizant of it, even while doing it, but all racers are.

[@douglasmac108]

@@mrsmartypants_1 exactly, this is basic basic ski racing 101 stuff. Easy to spot race trained skiers out free skiing. We were going over these techniques in clinics in regular ski school and I taught all my students this stuff according to their ability. I am not really sure what point the presenter is trying to make. Any racer that has not be taught this stuff from day one is in desperate need of a new coach.

[@InvestigatorPierce]

@@beattheclock7509 Lol your experience is null.... You don't even know what freesking means... Freeskiing, or new school skiing, is a specific type of alpine skiing, which involves tricks, jumps, and terrain park features, such as rails, boxes, jibs, or other obstacles. This form of skiing resulted from the growth of snowboarding combined with the progression of freestyle skiing. "Newschoolers", or those who specifically ski in this style, as opposed to traditional freestylers, freeriders, big mountain skiers, and racers, are often found in terrain parks, which are designed specifically for tricks. You really think racers don't understand how to carve at it's most effective rate? I was taught this at 8 years old and taught it for many years... I can tell you anyone I taught looks like a racer... 99% of freeskiers look like idiots when carving.

[@skibike01]

This is a great video. It goes back to the new line that ted had when the FIS switched to the 35M skis. He would ski the green line and carry more speed. even though he was traveling a longer line, he was able to travel at a faster speed. For younger skiers it is as you touched on they do not have a clean edge in the beginning and scrub speed and only finish the end of the turn as often they cannot bend the ski to get a smaller radius turn.

[@beattheclock7509]

Fully agree!

[@janisbb6418]

EXACTLY!!!!

[@robertgrant6837]

After watching the video several times and reading the comments I think the point that you are pushing is very early commitment in the transition well before the fall line to the new turn with rapid aggressive new edge angles which requires angulation. That early commitment is what separates the WC skiers from the rest of us.

[@beattheclock7509]

Yea thats the HOW part of it.. The WHAT thing i m trying to get across is that we should try to get the skis out of the fallline in a smooth and fast way.. And the WHY part is that the better we can do this, the less distance we ll need to keep the skis on the edge in gates, which is usually faster

[@idealphotography8215]

I think you are doing a good job here, but as a ski instructor for 30 years (Level 3 PSIA) I have heard thousands of ski movement description. I would encourage you to use and explain your terms so people of many different ski backgrounds can understand the technical words.

[@beattheclock7509]

Yes i will try to make that more clear.. it´s quite difficult to boil it down without repeating myself but i will definitely try my best! Thank you.

[@JB91710]

He actually isn't do a great job here at all and yes, he has a lot of explaining to do that I would bet he can't do, or he would have already.

[@tobiastschernuth1598]

nice first video, looking forward to the next one!

[@grizzkid795]

Seems like the tittle should be, "What free skiers don't understand about racing technique".

[@BruceLessard]

Thanks! Good stuff! On steeper terrain I try hard to really get over, pressure the outside ski and come completely around in a carve. All in an attempt to control my speed. But at 70 it’s becoming a challenge. So I’m working on including more skidding into my turns, which of course really helps to control speed. It’s easy to do on short swing turns, but I find it more difficult on longer higher speed turns. Advice and instruction on how to do that while maintaining good form would be helpful.

[@antonroux6737]

Assuming your technique is otherwise good… stand up more and use less hip angle - also employ more rotation of your legs instead of just railing the skis onto edge - you should be able to ski and to carve with very little effort. Not a great video btw…

[@CoreQ]

yeah ..when I don't ski in the gate. I don't know what to aim for. I feel wrong just waiting the ski to make a long turn. I always want to initia the turn whenever I finish the turn, waiting seems to be wrong.

[@stevencooney9236]

He is not steering out of the fall line. Ski tips change direction by tipping both feet, especially the little toe edge. Steering indicates twisting the foot. He is tipping and counterbalancing like crazy to change direction. He is not steering a ski to complete a turn. Yes I agree not WC level skiing. Transfer to the little toe edge and reset of the inside foot is not in this skiers tool box but nice movement inside the skis. Thanks for posting.

[@beattheclock7509]

Yes, now aware that steering means twisting the foot, which is not what i mean, thank you for pointing this out!

[@trouts4444]

@@beattheclock7509 Ski language causes endless confusion. If you are not sure then create a context for what you say so it has explicit meaning.

[@stevebag3720]

Whoever the skier is this clip is from another video titled "World Cup skiers free skiing" Excellent skiing!

[@MrDHCuthill]

@@beattheclock7509 : I agree with your use of the term "Steering". Many people refer to the "Steering Angle" of the skis. But there are 3 "Steering Elements". These are Pressure, Edge-Angle (as well as steering angle which is effectively zero when pure-carving and no skid). In that instance, the skis do rotate, but they only rotate at the rate of the turn. Yes, of course, if you rotate the feet across the direction the ski is travelling, then you are steering. But the other two steering elements are involved always.

[@jimrevkin9271]

Exactly, he needs to pull that inside foot back and tip it to initiate the turn. He is struggling to make the inside foot catch up with the outside foot. He is also dipping his inside shoulder into the turn, which doesn’t help.

[@MrDogonjon]

The purpose of free skiing for racers is to develop lateral eye movements for threat detection. Off piste terrain promotes adaptable technique. too much focus on courses put vision to much in linear perspective unaware of available line alternatives. Steeps, trees, powder and bumps are improvised courses requiring lateral eye scanning to find lines. Lateral eye movements are pro active to overcoming fear and being confident..

[@MrDogonjon]

Lateral eye movements orient your local reference frame in rectilinear motion.

[@MrDogonjon]

I just got special relativity!!!

[@zakingle1420]

Love these videos! Thank you!

[@cswalker21]

I think this was a really nice video with lots of good points, but I still don’t see anything it it remotely like “what racers don’t understand about free skiing.” It’s more like things any racer has had drilled into his head for ages.

[@beattheclock7509]

Personally I´m seeing a lot of skiers not really getting the point i´m trying to make, which is about getting the skis to turn out of the fallline. They seem to ski SG or downhill and ski GS turns when having slalom skis on. But this probably varies a lot from country to country ;)

[@shooter7a]

@@beattheclock7509 LOL have you even watched a ski race? Seriously. Literally what gates do is FORCE YOU OUT OF THE FALL LINE. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR. Your comment is like saying race car drivers just drive down the straight away.

[@MrDHCuthill]

The black line is the key! The thing about the black line is that it isn't a circle! It's a Parabola. In a parabola, the so-called slope angle of the tangent-line to the curve is never constant. In a circle, the slope of the tangent-line is constant. The other thing is that the radius of the curve doesn't just decrease, it decreases at an ever-increasing rate.

[@MrDHCuthill]

To make a parabolic turnshape, the edge angle must be rolled on at a progressively rapid rate. Then the edge is released progressively. The secret is never to be left locked on the downhill ski. The GS turn occurs between the "45s" in other words the new direction is no more than 45 Degrees past the flowline.

[@MrDHCuthill]

In this way, the angular energy built-up during the turn (when linear acceleration transforms into rotational acceleration) is released back into linear motion after the turn. The GS racer when turning is accelerating around the curve. When the racer eases off the radius after the widest point, the racer accelerates linearly towards the next rise line. (The rise line is a line through the next panel straight up the hill). When the racer crosses that line above the next gate, that's the widest point, and the racer comes back into the gate on the way out of the turn.

[@MrDHCuthill]

A carving ski doesn't carve on the fixed sidecut radius. Sidecut Radius is a fixed shape in the plan-view looking down on the ski. Sidecut Radius allows the ski to bend when the ski is tipped over. The ski carves on the bend radius. That's the radius that varies with edge-angle. On 27m GS sidecut skis, the whole length of the ski must be worked. In other words, the tip is pressured to bend the forepart and the rest of the edge follows. A bit like a freight train taking a bend: Tail follows tip, making the ski change radius as it travels in the groove.

[@tinyskier6250]

therorectically, if carving correctly, you should be accelerating every turn ... due to always being on edge, ... racers are never "entirely" on edge because they "have to turn" because that's the way courses are set up, whereas if recreational carving you wait for the turn to happen which means you have the time to always be on ... edge .... just a matter of if you have the balls to always be on edge ... imo, if you are not on edge, .. you're not carving, so any sloughing off of speed or trying to manage "speed control" by washing out .. you're not carving. You're carving, smearing, carving again .. that's not carving. There's ways to manage speed control but it means "working" the ski .. most people i see have no idea how "working" a ski can slow them down while still maintaining the edge and carving ...

[@michaelrae7779]

Lifting the back of the inside ski at the start of the turn sounds like a variation on dolphin turns.

[@chuckcarmone7545]

This is awesome stuff. Kee them coming!!!

[@beattheclock7509]

Thanks man!

[@ISCO36]

Hm, i‘m not shure but for me the guy rotats his shoulders to much to the inside, i can‘t see shoulders straight downhill

[@herbertberger7711]

"Flow"-Carving, (meaning "Flow" as a precious mental state, almost like dancing a great waltz) by introducing a forward-aft positioning of the body during free-carving: a) aproaching the end of the turn (e.g. 70-90° off the fall-line) let the pressure-point of the body-weight gradually fall behind the heel on the outside ski. b) At the changing point into the next turn move the body markedly forward by changeing the new weight pressure point to in front of the big toe of the new outside ski - combined with stick and shoulder/body position change, maintaining leaning forward until ~the bottom of the turn. This also should pull you through deep and heavy snow at and after noon-time.

[@justinrfogarty780]

This is a good video but your title is confusing. Racers understand what you are explaining. Who does not understand is free skiers.

[@beattheclock7509]

I think it´s a bit confusing in general, i´m trying to get better at it though!

[@petrus-ski]

Please, what’s the name of the free skiing guy?

[@tobiastschernuth1598]

its me😉

[@petrus-ski]

@@tobiastschernuth1598 very good skiing! Solid, smooth, well balanced and dynamic. Please post more.

[@terrycaudill4171]

@@tobiastschernuth1598 Love the angles, nice turns.

[@dmarkovina]

@@tobiastschernuth1598 Epic resonse! 😂

[@stevebag3720]

Great skiing Tobias! I doubt anyone making comments and the guy narrating this video can even come close to your level of skiing!

[@gregcapri6137]

Speaking as a older masters racer ..””I don’t “” Great tip!

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank you!

[@danielgendron9399]

As an Eastern Canadian resident, we often ski on hard packed snow and ice. Do you have any tips on how to control our speed without having to slide sideways at the beginning of the turn (no clean edges)? Thanks

[@beattheclock7509]

If you are finishing the turns in a way that your skis are almost looking uphill you ll be able to fully control the speed. Of course this only works if your turnradius is not too long. Do you know what i mean?

[@danielgendron9399]

@@beattheclock7509 Yes I know what you mean, thanks! My skis have a 15m radius therefore I have to work hard and push the angle as much as possible in steeper hard packed snow sections and used wider portion of the slope. Thanks for the video, it’s very cool.

[@beattheclock7509]

@@danielgendron9399 awesome! if the skis are 15m radius, aim for ~13m in the steep.. the smaller the radius, the less time in the fallline, which means less speed but more angles and better look!

[@magnificoas388]

great !!

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank you!!!

[@derekwong2755]

What are ways to tighten the radius and does early edge help?

[@beattheclock7509]

As this topic is probably the most important one, i´m not able to answer it easily.. early edge does help, so does a larger edge angle.. in most videos i try to refer to this concept so i think after watching a couple of videos you´ll have a better idea on what you can try.

[@stevencooney9236]

@@beattheclock7509 the answer is the edge change or switch. Switch edges to the downhill edges across the hill and always counterbalance on the switch. This will give you connection to the snow before the ski enters the fall line. Beat the clock you are doing this but possibly it is in your repertoire without realizing. In the video you are not shortening your new inside leg on the switch. Shorten your new inside leg, Stand on your new uphill/outside foot. Finally reset your new inside foot. Don't just put it down. Reset your new inside foot where you want it so your little toe edge is ready on the switch. This will allow you to stay down and not have a hiccup on the switch.

[@trouts4444]

@@beattheclock7509 How do you get a larger edge angle would be helpful. Counter, moving inside, inclination and angulation combined will make an R13 snap around like an R11. Just saying those are meaningless without good descriptive definitions. You will be explaining too much and putting people to sleep with a long video if your target audience is every level of skier. Think about who is your target audience and talk to them with descriptions at their level. If you are describing point that may be new to them then expand your descriptions to insure they will understand.

[@alfredreisenberger2298]

Love it.

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank you!

[@ZenoKaufmann]

love it!

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank you so much!

[@arizzo5187]

Really good skier for what he's doing.. would free Ski better if he used flex to release or retraction instead of up unweighting , very little counterbalance or counteracting in his skiing , pole usage non-existent , narrow stance would be better especially in off piste powder and bumps .( No steering needed ) Thanks

[@FlimFlamvanHam]

Interesting. I see none of what you're describing. He's motoring for resort piste carving. He's low and committed. He's not making pole plants from that position nor would they be required. If he were making pole plants he'd not be in an aggressive enough position get his COM low enough for such carves. Dragging the inside pole to provide a little more BOS: yes. Look how wide his stance is in middle of turn and how narrow between. I'm stating the obvious. And I'm sure this skier rips off piste, powder and bumps (all truly good skiers do) and his stance would change to suit those conditions.

[@georgert]

@@FlimFlamvanHam Another Harald Harb cult follower chimes in right on schedule.

[@shooter7a]

Low transition is extremely physically taxing. Anyone that says it is not, is not turning hard with high edge angles (high G load). Have you watched Mikaela free ski. When she is just skiing, do you think she does a Marcel Hirscher style compact transition? LOL...NO. When you are cranking high G turns, and doing a low transition, the only way you can stay low (unless you are on extremely soft boots) is to GET IN THE BACK SEAT....LIKE YOU ARE SITTING ON A CHAIR. That means you have to expend a MASSIVE amount of energy to recover position and pull your legs back under you to start the next turn. Every elite skier I have seen free ski comes up a lot more when they are just free skiing and not deliberately cranking race intensity turns.

[@zknarc]

He isn't steering, he is letting the skis turn him via edging

[@beattheclock7509]

I think we re talking about the same thing.. How would you define steering? From my understanding it means nothing else than turning, with a bit more determination;)

[@northernguy8860]

Steering, as in steering a car, isn't how racers make turns. They use angulation to build edge pressure and release that pressure early to create lateral deflection and direction change. Carving out the belly of turns is a choice not to capitalize on release and deflection, and is somewhat static and slow. You can ski the exact same line and be much faster by establishing early pressure and more extreme angulation, followed by early release. In other words, any ski pressure past the fall line has a braking effect.

[@beattheclock7509]

@@northernguy8860 very well written, i agree you can't steer skis like you would steer a car.. There is one point where i think i don't fully agree: turning in general has a breaking effect, i don't think there is a difference where with respect to the fallline you turn.. Obviously, the closer to the fallline the faster. It's just a question of how to get around gates without much "breaking". Would you elaborate a liitle more on what you mean by early pressure and more angulation?

[@northernguy8860]

@@beattheclock7509, if you don't commit early and lack enough angulation, you'll be forced to carve out the belly of the turn with full pressure on the skis to sustain a proper line. You can't release and deflect laterally to the new turn because the apex edge pressure wasn't enough to complete the direction change. You can 'slingshot' from side to side by leveraging ski pressure . There is a steering component that can be used with you core (hips) at the release point of the turn (at the gate in slalom turns), slashing the skis back underneath you.

[@beattheclock7509]

@@northernguy8860 Yep i totally agree, the more angulation you can have in the beginning if the turn the better (and faster)!

[@c.g.c2067]

That skier has a slight problem with his left turn

[@brucebenson8657]

I'm not sure i understand clean edges, is it flat skis?

[@beattheclock7509]

By clean edges i mean having the tip AND the tail of the skis travel through the exact same spots. The opposite would be sliding.

[@Osnosis]

@@beattheclock7509 essentially no skidding. Every ski has an ideal turn shape based on its length and flex. If we set our body weight on the ski properly, the ski tilts on edge and bends as it was designed. As consumers we don’t have access to the design specs, so we have to figure this out by feel and experience.

[@beattheclock7509]

@@Osnosis exactly!

[@trouts4444]

@@beattheclock7509 Ah, I read the comments and find out what you meant. I never would have guessed it meant what you wrote.

[@beattheclock7509]

@@trouts4444 Pardon the unclear message... this is literally the first video i´ve ever done, and if i had known that it was actually watched so damn often i would have spend a lot more time and energy into making everything clearer.

[@MrDHCuthill]

I can tell from your commentary that you know your stuff. But what you say can be interpreted with the wrong meaning. 1) The "Radius of the turn" is a slippery concept. The shape of the turn isn't circular. There isn't a single radius, because the radius changes from moment to moment. (A circle is defined as the set of points that are a fixed distance from a centre point. If you are skiing a turn of fixed radius, around a centre-point, that's a definition of "Park'Nride!). 2) The turn (shown in your black line) stops tightening at the widest point (The smallest radius) and then opens out after at the end of the turn. 3) The skier here may look like he is turning from traverse to traverse, but your black line parabola tells a different story. 4) One way of simplifying things is to speak about outputs and inputs separately. Some of the Outputs are width, range, rate and speed and turn-shape. Some of the Inputs are edge-angle, pressure and rotation (i.e. what we know as the "Steering Elements").

[@amundekroll7490]

There is way to much dead time in the transition and not taking advantage of the potential kinetic energy.

[@dmarkovina]

Practice makes perfect but only good practice counts! :-) Really like your tips.

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank you very much!

[@stevebag3720]

Anyone know who the skier is? I'm guessing a World Cup skier.

[@beattheclock7509]

no he is my brother ;)

[@IStMl]

huh?

[@markjones3425]

Your demonstrator is good to watch for learning,... but your terminology is lacking in experience. This video is good for beginners, but you need to express yourself more clearly use more descriptive and easy to comprehend terminology...and I would say that ALL ski racers and advanced skiers who can carve already, know this very well...ski instructors teach finishing the turn at ALL levels of skiing including to beginners linking turns as do coaches...it is the basics of speed control.....but good effort!

[@beattheclock7509]

I ll try, thank you!

[@richardelder256]

I really have trouble watching this video. Kind of like listening to somebody scrape their fingernails on a chalkboard. Did the demo skier suffer some kind of permanent injury to his left shoulder and elbow that causes him to ski with his elbow permanently bent? Probably not! I had the same ugly habit 20 years ago until I worked to ban it from my skiing !

[@宇佐美康彦]

very good cerving racing ski,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank you!!

[@robertoherkules8109]

haahahahaa u have nothing better to do????

[@AtomicB-zq2cw]

This video makes absolutely no sense especially regarding the title. You are very, very confused about simple language and communication. You should have someone else write a script for you after you try to communicate to them what you are possibly thinking about.

[@JB91710]

You aren't saying or teaching anything!!! Lifting the tail is a tiny part of a package you made no reference to. There is nothing here but talking.

[@mbal4052]

Hey it’s crazy old bastard from the old persons home 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@trouts4444]

“We want clean edges means nothing”. You even emphasis it? What things should be done to get clean edges. Soap and water? What actions by the skier results in clean edges? You sucked me in with the title. Next time I'll skip over your videos as you'll hype for eyeballs versus content.

[@mbal4052]

✊🏻💦

[@kristinekarlsen8840]

Zero useful information

[@beattheclock7509]

What would you consider useful information? I´m well aware that the quality of the video overall is not amazing but presonally i do think that it´s an important concept. I´d like to hear your opinion.

[@brianoconnor3407]

Agree Krissy. Stupidiculous narrative. Waste of time watching this poorly constructed 'tip'. Skiing is good though.

[@beattheclock7509]

@@brianoconnor3407 gotta love the constructive criticicm.. Did you womder why i did another video about this?

[@dyvetex]

Totally useless info!!!