What Raft Should I Buy? | Ep. 144

[@TheMarkwheeler]

Good discussion, thanks. Our 1st raft, from A&B (thanks Steve!) was & still is a 14' Aire 143R gear rig. Great boat. I tend to overload it, but it doesn't mind. Middle Fork low water not bad at all (knock on wood). Aire easily covered 3 issues with 3 different boats under warranty for us; a floor bladder started leaking after about 2 years, a side tube bladder had a minor leak after about 6 years, & when my new cat didn't look right they built me a new one to custom specs at no charge, & shipped both ways free... We also have a few other Aire cats & yaks, because, boats... Cheers.

[@GearGarageTV]

Awesome. Thank you soooo much for leaving a comment with your experience.

[@steezjenkins]

I agree with everything you said about the overloaded 14' boat. Put in on the middle on June 12th. The boats struggled. . First flip was Velvet. Lost a bit of gear there. Rubber didn't got so well. Two boats flipped and the chase was on. It went long. 38 mile day. My boat is 15.5 Sotar Legend cat stretched tubes. Therefore I myself pack light and share the group gear. When an overloaded 14' boat flips and you have to chase it down, pluck your friends out of the water and slow the overturned mustang fastback into an eddy its a lot of work. I was smoked at the end of that day.

[@Imjustinjames]

Thanks for the solid video. I WAS eyeing a couple different rafts but now adjusting and eyeing the hysides mini me or the mini max. Been doing more rafting with friends and love a fun day out here in the PNW. I’m of the mindset anymore to “buy once cry once” rather than one of the cheaper options mentioned so thank you for that. Just spent the past week on the rogue river in a hyside for its first trip out with friends and no complaints

[@chrisfernandez974]

Zach you have a masterful way of breaking down in great detail what each style/fabric/size raft is meant for. Big thanks for mentioning the WING SERG!

[@GearGarageTV]

Thanks

[@cooperewan1]

How long has Wing been around?

[@iancavanaugh9898]

Great advice. I prefer and own a 13.5 aire. I come from an ultralight backpack/climbing background and have no problems with it on low water in idaho. Also come from a kayak self support mindset, so gear/weight isn’t an issue but def know a lot of people who have gone too small on rafts and regret it. 16’ is definitely money for most things. Just about what you do and why.

[@gregeastwood5761]

I agree with the 16’ boat point-spot on. Urethane is the worst material. It will get pinholes if you roll it. I have had to leave a Urethane boat at a takeout because we could not fit it on/in the shuttle vehicle. PVC is good, but it will get pinholes if you store it rolled up. If you go with PVC, welded seams are better than glued-the glue rapidly looses its stickyness after 10 years. Hypalon is good. I was not impressed with my last hyside-terrible workmanship. 10 years later it still holds air...seams are starting to peel a little. I like AIRE the best. Seen one get a 6’ hole...the bladder nearly came out. It was very easy to fix because of the zipper. The zippers and floor design are an issue on muddy, desert rivers. Oftentimes the floor bladders end up leaking. If you overinflate an AIRE, the zipper may fail catastrophically...it’s not the easiest fix.

[@unknowncomic7240]

Have you ever owned a SOTAR raft? They are the BEST rafts made, and they are made of urethane. I've owned many of them over the past 20 years (including now), and I've never had a pinhole leak. AIREs are cheap boats made from PVC. If you knew your stuff, then you'd know that urethane is 100-times tougher than PVC. Go look at Craigslist, and you can find a used AIRE cheap. If you're lucky enough to find a SOTAR, then you'll pay a premium for it. SOTARs are the best rafts and cats, and Maravias are a DISTANT second.

[@gregeastwood5761]

@@unknowncomic7240 I am glad that you have liked your SOTARs. They make a decent boat. They are very popular where I live. The fishing guides love them because they are light and they slide well. Urethane is very abrasion resistant. One of my fishing guide buddies had one. The boat was 6 y.o. and had plenty of leaks...he still loved it, and would buy another. Urethane provides a very stiff ride. So, if you think you might rather row a drift boat or dory, urethane may be right for you. Rolling and storage are an issue for urethane though, and-depending on how you store it-you may have a rude awakening when you unroll it in the spring. Also, urethane is really slick under foot, especially on muddy water trips and on frosty mornings. I agree with the Maravia comment...they are over rated pieces of shit. No, I have never owned a SOTAR, but one of the companies where I guided had 80 to 100 of them. Seem like o.k. boats. Ultimately, if you take care of it, it will take care of you. Have fun out there on the water. See you downstream.

[@allancampbell4075]

Aire 156R! I run mine solo as a gear boat. The price is right. Took me awhile to decide on which 16” (ish) boat that Aire made. We don’t paddle raft, so that didn’t factor in. Very well made, fantastic warranty and customer service. I’d like to see a Wing raft, but I lived next to the factory in Arcata, CA and have only ever seen one in the wild. Price might have something to do with that. Your thoughts on 16’ is spot on! I moved on from the 14’ as the 16’ its really no wider, but carries the same gear so much better. Great video Zach

[@GearGarageTV]

Yes the 156R is an awesome boat. Thanks for adding your thoughts.

[@jaredlinkhart6528]

We have gone a different route, we have the 14’ Sotar and we are adding a 14’ Wave destroyer to the fleet. My wife wants to row and the frame we are getting allows for lite day trips or adding a module for a cooler and gear. In the winter I will use it as my day boat. We are excited!

[@zune911]

Long time rafter and builder of rafts and cats. Couldn't agree more with your opinion on 16ft boats. To many people come back after buying a 14ft boat and frame and want to upgrade to 16ft

[@gumwap1]

I have a 14’er to keep me from over-packing. If a 14’er can’t haul everything my GF and I need for up to 6 days, it means we’re carrying too much junk.

[@steveharris39]

Just a little counterpoint on 16 vs.14 discussion. Years of boating in the dry Southwest and Mexico have convinced me that the 14 is the more versatile: fourteens can sneak down creekier rivers and still perform nicely on big ones. One thing to keep in mind is that "beamier" boats tend to be more stable. I've found that 2:1 length to width ratio (like the Avon Pro) contributes a lot to staying upright in big features. Anyway, big thanks to you for Gear Garage; Zack. I'm a big fan.

[@GarageGeek]

I love your channel. I heeded your advice and went with a 16ft boat. After having it in on the river for the first time I found it a lot to handle and the oars to be counter intuitive... I found myself desiring a play boat that I can R2 in at the whitewater park so I bought a mini max as well... Two boats in two months.. I am in deep. Hopefully I grow into the 16ft otherwise I will be selling it.

[@blitzen74]

I purchased my 14' NRS Scout in 2003. I run it as a paddle boat for day trips and a gear boat for multi day trips. It's seen about 55 trips in total. It's in great shape and I've not had any issues. It gets rolled up for travel and storage. I love the hypolon material. I'm a big fan. The Scout model is no longer made. I like the 7' beam. It is a very stable boat. The 14' is great for 2 people for multiday. I've got two kids now and could definitely use the extra space a 15' would offer. But I'm just going to get them an R2 soon enough.

[@paulvannoy8872]

I’ve had two boats both Aires first was a 156D a boat that I decided was a poor gear boat might as well have gone with the R as the taper in the D really cut down on frame space. I now have a 136DD which seems small but I find it perfect for me. Super fun and easy for day trips and I still run two boxes and a 100qt cooler for the big trips. I tend to pack very light compared to most folks though.

[@StupidStuffProductions]

Great talk I have one disagreement the STAR rafts are very high quality. After they got bought by NRS and switched to welded seams and heavy dude PVC they will last a long time and have a class V design and performance. I have a little STAR raft that’s held up in perfect condition for six years of solid class IV. I also have a STAR Kima which is a 13 foot cat and it has done the wind River and several Idaho runs. But I have no info on the other international brands.

[@andrewbranagh232]

An interesting analysis. Wing is thrilled to be in the white water dialogue once again!

[@Eagle82200]

Great info. Have only had drift boats and looking at a raft. Based on what you said it will be a 16'.

[@GearGarageTV]

Sweet

[@DavidBrownwashingtoninjury]

Have you considered doing a video or series on building up a new gear boat? Frame and rigging options?

[@GearGarageTV]

Yes I’d like to and have it on the list

[@seagriz7670]

Would also enjoy a video on building a gear boat

[@sandyradsek2058]

@@GearGarageTV Yes, do that. It would be cool to see a few different sizes too.

[@GearGarageTV]

@@sandyradsek2058 There is an episode about rigging a gear boat

[@kayleemullen8130]

I understand this video was posted awhile ago lol but I am a whitewater guide on a small creek and love running water like that. As well as I have fallen in love with overnight trips. I’m leaning twords a 14 footer because I don’t mind being weight conscious on my overnight trips and don’t want to give up the ability to paddle boat. I’m learned to guide on self-bailing floors and they worked great, but a lot of what I’m reading is that drop stitch it better for overnights. I was curious about your opinion between the two types of floors?

[@jefferybyard8429]

I'm more thinking like you, beings from West Virginia and boating WV, PA and MD I definitely don't want something that big if I was going to buy again. I started out in a 14' frame cat, bought a 16' used Maravia raft, then bought a new RMR phat cat. And the 16' raft is used pretty much just as a party barge now for just the New, Gauley and big water Cheat trips. For most of the year I go with the smaller boats, but it's all what you're planning on going down the most.

[@theborg269x]

I bought a bris Amazon 13footer. I'll only have 3 people and taking short trips on the American River. First one coming up this weekend on the south fork it will be my first time as a captain of my own boat can't wait

[@brucecooley4170]

Seems like 16 may be answer for gear boat, but a lot of people in Northwest run 14’s for both paddle boat and light gear boat for private trips. Curious what other people think if you are only buying one boat. Seems like a commercial bias. Aire is only company that will transfer warranty to a used buyer and no fee just like a car.

[@GearGarageTV]

I’m pretty sure none of the Northwest guides own 14’ boats as gear rafts. The outfitter bias would be 18’.

[@GearGarageTV]

@David Allen I think all the manufacturers are good. Each has their plusses and minuses.

[@joshelkind5209]

Thanks for all the great videos and insights! I'm considering upgrading my rubber, and am looking at Wing and Sotar boats. The big difference I'm seeing between them as far as muti-day trips, is that the Wing boat has a much shorter section of flat tube to lay the frame on. The Williamson 14'6" only has a run of 68" of flat tube and the Serg 16' only has 74". Contrast that to the 85" a 14' Sotar has. A lot of frames that can accommodate 2 dryboxes (kitchen) and a cooler are 82" or longer. Wondering what frames you guys run on these for multi-day trips and if the issue I'm seeing is a concern. Thanks for your time!

[@GearGarageTV]

We extend our frames past the straight section. The first bit of rocker is minor.

[@camahoo]

Zach my wife and I have been running an Aire 13OD and custom frame since 2009. We have always go light no cooler and dehydrated food. However that all changed after an Owyhee trip in 2019 and we shared our campsite with folks that had a full kitchen and ice chest. We were trying to demo an Aire 160DD last year but covid canceled those plans. Now we are looking at a river lottery winning ticket and it's gonna be during low water. I would like any feed back you or any subscribers have on the Aire 160DD. My wife and I have always rafted by ourselves and I love the response I get from our current boat but I also know the more I load on our current boat the less responsive it will be. I prefer to roll my raft up for storage because we are limited on space and our Aire 130D has never shown signs of damage from storage methods.

[@GearGarageTV]

The AIRE 16 foot boats are all awesome. If you like your AIRE 130D then you'll be happy with their bigger boats. I'm personally not a fan of diminishing tube boats - especially for gear rafts - so if it were me I'd get the 156R (since they don't make a 160R). I hope that helps!

[@camahoo]

@@GearGarageTV Thanks any information is appreciated even though I have rafting for 20 years I consider myself a nob simply because I have maybe 2500 river miles under my belt and by my calculations that's about same as a guide get in a season. Thank you for your input

[@DrewBonham]

I'm torn between the 143D and 146DD. I live in Middle TN and the raft will predominantly be used as an r4 to r7 paddle raft on the ocoee, new, and gauley. 20% of the time it will be used as an oar rig out west on the kern, mfsr, salmon, Colorado, Arkansas, etc. What would be your pick between the two?

[@iproject1850]

I love my 14‘ Star that I have currently, and I’ve always thought that when it fails, I will upgrade to a 16‘ raft. But I’ve had several friends steer me away from that, because if you have more space, you’ll only carry more gear, or your friends gear 😉 I love the flexibility of converting it to a paddle boat, it handles really well it isn’t too heavy. Mine is a converted bucket bottom boat (to self bailer), so tracks well. I bought mine used for around $1200, and it’s going on 16 years old. It’s been bomber, I haven’t had to repair a leak yet

[@darrelldb1]

I am thinking of going to a cat exclusively because I'm am getting tired n of going on multi-day trips and no one else has a raft. So I row a super heavy boat and everyone else is packing a couple of drybags.

[@sandyradsek2058]

I'm looking for a new boat. Had a e136, want a little more space. Thought I had my mind made up on a nrs150, then after talking to people I started thinking nah i'll get a 14'. Now I watched this video... as if it isn't hard enough to chose a boat. The hard part is that unlike buying a car I can't just go to the local dealer and sit them to help decide. It's a lot of money to drop on something you can't see in person.

[@GearGarageTV]

It really depends on what you want to do. If you want a paddle boat, go smaller. If you want a gear boat, go larger. If you want one that can do both then 15' works but it won't be good for either.

[@sandyradsek2058]

@@GearGarageTV mainly an oar rig, west water, lodore, salt, deso and hopefully grand when I can. All the western rivers.

[@GearGarageTV]

@@sandyradsek2058 Based on knowing very little about how you boat and what you bring I'd suggest a 16'.

[@adrianrafaelmagana804]

I like the Hysides more than than the NRS 16's we have, but those Avon's...they are old but they are the best

[@mjones3544]

Great video, thanks for the content! I'll add to the discussion here. I love my 14' Maravia, it's a blast to R2 with a buddy or run as a paddle raft with a crew. With two dry boxes and a pile in the stern it seems to have plenty of space for multi days for two people, I can't imagine going larger unless it was going to be exclusively for rowing. I do occasionally wish I could roll the boat up and throw it in the back of the truck rather than trailering, but overall quite happy. At the end of the day though, buy any boat and go rafting!

[@problemsolver6332]

Wife and I are looking for most forgiving raft to R2. Something we can fit in our prius too! Under 100lbs. Any recommendations?

[@featherstofins1985]

I’m getting ready to purchase my first raft after renting for years. I’m looking at the Aire 156R & 156D. It will primarily be a gear/overnight boat with frame setup. Any opinions between the two models? I’ve heard the D tracks better.

[@GearGarageTV]

If you're going to put gear in the bow and the stern it would seem that having full sized tubes in the bow and stern would make sense. Most multi-day rafts do not have diminishing tubes.

[@fflanner]

Wing’s 3 year warranty (5 year on seam welds that hold air only) is NOT a good warranty. Sotar, Aire and Maravia all offer 10 year warranties. If you are a PNW boater, being closer to the factory is a benefit for repairs as well.

[@GearGarageTV]

I own a bunch of Wings and just assumed the warranty was better than that. Thanks for the info!

[@darrelldb1]

I have been a Sotar guy for 25 years and currently own 3 of them. I haven't needed any warranty work until recently. The 10 year warranty looks good on paper, but you will have to fight to get them to honor it, if they do at all. I can't speak for the others, but I know Aire is a true 10 year no fault warranty. For some reason the most recent sotar raft I bought came with a drop stitch floor. I assumed that even though it was not I beam, that it was still a Sotar floor. I didn't realize until a couple of years down the road when it started to delaminate that I paid full price for a factory new Sotar that they equipped with a cheap sub standard Chinese pvc drop stitch floor. The floor has completely blown out now, and they say it is a warranty repair, yet somehow it is still costing me $1100.00.

[@ronjones2215]

Totally agree, Sotar warranty is not good. Aire has the best- "no fault". They WILL fix it !!

[@terryhagen180]

Zach, do you have any experience with streamtech boats? Link Jackson the owner said a guide outfitter uses them on the middle fork of the Salmon river. I’m looking at purchasing the salmonfly mostly for fishing but also white water.

[@GearGarageTV]

I’ve never used them but I hear they’re great for fishing trips

[@adamvolwiler7336]

Northwest Rafting Company what are you running for oar length on your Wing Williamson? Just got off the Selway and the 9 foot oars seemed too small in the gear boat style setup.

[@GearGarageTV]

I'm personally running 10' oars but I also like long oars. I think most people run 9.5 feet on a 14' boat but it does depend on your frame and the distance between oar locks. Since those tubes are slightly larger than most 14' boats you definitely need longer oars.

[@adamvolwiler7336]

@@GearGarageTV Thanks for the info. Low water Middle Fork and on the upper section of the Selway the 9 footers worked well enough but once we got into a bit more pushy water under Moose Creek it was pretty evident the 9s weren't really cutting it.

[@GearGarageTV]

@@adamvolwiler7336 personally I wouldn't go below 9.5 feet - even at low water. On low water Illinois trips we row the Williamson with 10' oars. If you have good oar management you'll appreciate the longer oars at all flows.

[@adamvolwiler7336]

@@GearGarageTV Whats your opinion on 10'6" oars for the Williamson? I'm having a hell of a time finding the oars I want in 10 lengths but I can get a great deal on a set of 10'6" square tops. A 10 foot Cataract with a Dynalite blade would measure 10'3" so it seems like the two would be pretty comparable. Thanks again for all your help.

[@GearGarageTV]

Adam Volwiler the 10.5 foot oars will be a bit long. I’d wait and/or spend the extra money on 10 footers.

[@grillingwithwoos]

I have the option of going used sotar strike (2 chamber version) or a brand new nrs but not sure which way to go

[@lukefranco68]

SOTAR!

[@8sirjosh]

Hey Zach! What is your opinion on that inflatable mustang PFD? It that something that you would feel safe rafting in?

[@GearGarageTV]

I have one that I'm playing with right now and will try and do a video about it soon. Personally I don't think it's safe for whitewater use since you have to actively do something to get to an adequate inflation.

[@haydenmcd3]

Hello Yall, Newbie here. Was hoping to get some insight on buying my first raft. Ive been looking at paddlecats (frameless) and was curious if this is an okay choice for a beginner? Im a surfer and ocean waterman, just new to the river scene and dont fully know what I should be looking for. I like funky shapes and fun designs. Please let me know ! Also if you have any pros and cons on the paddlecats, I cant seem to find much info on them. Im talking the Star XL Slice, Hyside Paddlecat and Battlecat, etc. Thankk you!

[@aaronmccarver]

Thanks for the video and discussion, as always. I bought my first boat, a 14', about 6 years ago and really wish it was a 16'. Our boat is always overloaded with our family of four on multi-day trips. Right now I'm about to buy a cat for solo or two person mutli-days, but can't decide between a 14' or 16'. I would appreciate some feedback. 16' overkill? For solo/2 person trips? Thanks.

[@GearGarageTV]

For the cat it really depends on what rivers you do and how much stuff you bring on multi-day trips. A 16' is definitely not overkill - especially if your 14' raft is always overloaded. I really like the 17' and 18' cats for most multi-days but they're not for everyone.

[@rickydrawhorn7682]

Full disclosure I have only owned a 14’ cat wave destroyer. It’s a two person day boat (more fun solo) or a solo tripping (packing light). I took it solo on MF (minimalist using backpacking gear with small cooler/3 gallons water). Two people packing light with cooler/5gallons water on multi-day its performance sucks. We (wife and I) use it on multi day trips but we alternate between cat and paddle board (so really solo) and that works okay. I am thinking of getting an Aire 136DD so my daughter can join us on multi-days. 16’ seems like it would be over kill for our pack light style of tripping.

[@rickydrawhorn7682]

David Allen Thanks David for input. I guess packing light is a relative term in multi-day raft world. We carry basically the same amount of gear as we did in our ww canoe except we now bring a cooler and more water. In our 8 years of cat rafting l have never seen any boat with less gear than ours, otherwise would to chat with you more on your thoughts. I will give you a call at Andy’s this week.

[@jasonf21]

Hey... great overview... Whats your opinion on the Hyside Max 12 big boat in small size...

[@GearGarageTV]

Do you mean the 10’ 5” Mini Max? It’s a sweet boat.

[@21zimm]

I'm curious about the Max 12 too. I've had my eyes on it for a few years now as we need a small boat to add to our quiver.

[@GearGarageTV]

@@21zimm I hear it's a great boat

[@jasonf21]

I just got One! But still not yet hit the river. Although I have been tinkering to fit all my gear coming off a 14’ STAR, and did need to lighten the load on a few essential gear (like shrinkn handle on pump, cutting micro weight here and there) . The STAR is one clunky son of a gun so I’m sure this Max12 gonna be the world or a difference. Dnt get me wrong, straight plowing holes in the STAR is amazing but id like to nail some tight spots with the Max12. Details of the experience to follow.~~~

[@alanrobertson6389]

@@21zimm That's the boat that I settled on buying for myself. I am mostly a day boater, and up to now have only run R2, or a paddle boat up to 4 people. I also have a frame and some oars, but I still need to buy some oar locks to take it on it's maiden rowing trip. I went with it because I don't have a trailer, and I have to roll my boats. It's my first new boat, after retiring an old 13' rikon bucket boat that I bought used to get into the hobby. Going from the old rikon to the new hyside was a dream. It's at least half the weight, but only 6" shorter, and the urethane bottom helps it slip over rocks so much better. Also, I don't miss having to bail it, and I hated the old military valves on my rikon. I personally love hypalon for the flexibility in both rolling and on the water, and I have personally seen how long you can keep a hypalon boat alive if you take care of it. It's a very nimble and capable boat.

[@glennhawks7189]

What do you think about 136 dd air

[@GearGarageTV]

I don't like diminishing tube boats. My opinion is to go with the 136R.

[@DavidEvenson]

Wing over Sotar or Maravia? Hmm... not sure I agree there. What makes you like their boats? I honestly don't know anything about them, but I do think the Avon design is a bit dated. Rowed a ton of them when I was guiding.

[@coskier1969]

I think that 16 ft is much too large for most people. Specially people who usually only do day trips and short overnight trips. I love the 10.5 boats great fun but maybe 12 or 13 ft.

[@Bertiemang]

Same thought. Although I can’t decide between a 10.5’ mini max vs a 12’ rmr or hyside. Gonna be split between day trips and multi days.

[@rvrrunner]

Aire 13' Super Puma is an excellent raft. Great for paddle raft including R2 and Oar raft. Can't carry a lot of gear but it can do multi day trips if you travel l lite.

[@lukefranco68]

Not to mention, when planning on a rig, keep in mind, in the rafter world, logistics, carrying boats to and from put ins is often not easy. 16’ boat is heavy! Better have your kayaker buddies be down to help. Then you’ll be that “raft guy”

[@GearGarageTV]

If you stay in California it sounds like a 14’ boat is perfect for you. I spent 7 summers rowing 16’ rafts down the Tuolumne and can attest that they can make it down California rivers.

[@lukefranco68]

@@GearGarageTV I row 15’ sotars on the creek. Anything can be done. I just prefer smaller rigs. Cheers

[@GearGarageTV]

@@lukefranco68 Cool

[@justinlee8087]

What's your opinion on a 13' aire e for shorter multi day trips with 1-2 people? I mostly boat on the north Umpqua so it is perfect for paddle rafting. Just curious

[@GearGarageTV]

It would work fine if you don't bring too much stuff

[@bdh3949]

You're spot-on Zach, good advice here and good explanation of sizes vs uses.

[@randychappell5955]

I never hear you mention Stealth Craft. Do you not like them?

[@GearGarageTV]

I’ve never seen one

[@JabbsProductionsInc]

Havent seen anyone mention RMR. There all over here in CO. I know they are a bit new to the scene but curious what your experience/opinion is of them.

[@GearGarageTV]

They are well designed and affordable. The big downside is that they are made from PVC which may limit their durability.

[@yogeshsharma5594]

Love hyside n I ride hyside since 5 year

[@MrSurvivalexpert]

Does anyone have a company they recommend for a durable cheap raft for a family raft ? It will be used late season Arkansas River in Colorado gentile rapids for kids. I keep seeing videos on bris rafts?!? Any good?

[@timothywaterman1511]

Going to find out. We just ordered a 13' as our first boat in sw Colorado can't beat the price. We hope it lasts many years to get us into a dream boat

[@MrSurvivalexpert]

@@timothywaterman1511 awesome. I can't find too much information on bris. But I see a lot of people don't like ones made from pvc which bris is made from but I'm not sure as much as I'd use it ,it would be worth buying a more expensive one. Where did you purchase yours? Online or a local store? I'm in cs

[@timothywaterman1511]

@@MrSurvivalexpert online direct from Bris marina. No one has heard of them at the local river shop, but a friend has one for just under a year and said it has been a great boat. Time will tell. It's the only raft we could afford and still get an oar set up. Taking it on a 5 day trip in May and lots of local runs this summer

[@lukefranco68]

16’ boat too big for most west slope Sierra Nevada water shed. 14’ is more versatile here in California. I use 11’, and 14’ sotars. Wouldn’t have it any other way. 25 years in sotar

[@berrycrawford5579]

Agreed.

[@mikebrady4994]

Zach...would you choose Wing over Sotar?

[@GearGarageTV]

That's a tough one to answer. I've personally had some quality issues with SOTAR boats and their repair facility has been so backed up so because of that I'm a little hesitant to buy SOTARs right now. I do love the company and the people there. A few years ago I designed the modern Wing boats so as you can imaging I am partial to them. We've been running Wing boats for a few years now and they've been bomber which I REALLY appreciate since dealing with repairs is a pain. On the Wing boats I'm only a little hesitant because I don't like their thwart attachment system and there isn;t anyone within Wing that knows about whitewater. They make amazing boats that are super high quality but I wish there was someone there that could dial things in a little bit more so they're perfect and answer questions from whitewater rafters. Those are my complex thoughts about two great boat companies.

[@mikebrady4994]

@@GearGarageTV I appreciate the fact that you took the time to provide that response. I own an old Avon Pro (old ARTA boat) that I think I am going to send to Inflatable Technologies this off season for refurbishing. I hear they do a nice job. A buddy of mine and I are thinking we want to partner on a new boat. Probably 14 feet. We were leaning hard toward Sotar, but now you have me thinking Wing.

[@GearGarageTV]

@@mikebrady4994 I was hesitant to respond because I have close ties at both Wing and SOTAR. I designed the Wing 14'6" boat and it's based on the AVON adventurer. It would be a nice addition to your Pro. Yes Inflatable Technologies does a great job of refurbishing boats.

[@gregfindley2690]

​@@GearGarageTV Interesting to hear that about Wing. Didn't it start as a whitewater company? My understanding was that Bill Wing was the founder, and he was a whitewater guy. I did a trip as a rent-a-guide (freelance) for him on a Cal Salmon trip back in the late 1980's (I think). Is he no longer involved?

[@berrycrawford5579]

@@gregfindley2690 Bill Wing suffered some sort of head injury in Burnt Ranch Gorge a while ago and sold the company. Sadly I hear he is pretty messed up.

[@HomeWrecknKneeKnockr]

What are your thoughts on Achilles and why no mention of them in this video? I've always heard they were the best quality and Zodiac aren't bad either..

[@GearGarageTV]

I would not consider Achilles or Zodiac as a top quality or even medium quality whitewater raft

[@HomeWrecknKneeKnockr]

@@GearGarageTV what are those brands good for, I'm not interested in white water-just want quality for ponds lakes and mellow rivers?

[@andruslc]

What about Maravia?

[@GearGarageTV]

Maravia makes great boats but at that price I would personally go with the Wing

[@gc8417]

Great warranty and great boat. I've seen Maravias commercially run hard and dirty with over 100 days per season for a span of 10 + years. Same with AIRE boats

[@ryanhenderson8503]

Couldn't find your personal contact info so i sent you a book to the actual northwest rafting company website hope you get it Haha

[@rvrrunner]

Love your channel but I have to make a comment about buying a 16' raft. This works for out west and big rivers and multi-day trips but is way too big for out East and day trips. We have lots of rivers in Arkansas but they are mostly rain dependent and smaller rivers. I have a 13' Super Puma and it is perfect as a paddle raft and oar raft. I've rafted many rivers out west (Middle Fork of Salmon) and out east (Ocoee). Out west I use larger 14' to 16' oar rafts but out east I use my Super Puma. Raft size really is based on the type of rivers being run. I would never use a 16' raft in Arkansas so smaller is better in some cases.

[@GearGarageTV]

It sounds like you already know what size raft you need

[@andrewbrown6522]

"I like that boat because it designed it." T-up 😅 Im the same about my knives.

[@dgrfsthrgsergwrtghasefq]

I was a commercial guide for 20 years and think If you think you need a 16" raft for gear (on the three Oregon rivers where they are even usable year around) you are bringing to much junk... in my opinion.

[@GearGarageTV]

People raft outside Oregon too

[@trainboy2517]

Lol start out with a 16 footer??? How about a 14 footer, 2 strong paddlers can r2, 1 person can row, or you can take a 6 person crew.. took a 14 down the Grand Canyon with 3 people’s gear… most user friendly

[@GearGarageTV]

Sure do that

[@weirdbeard1980]

I think portability is an issue with the kind of people that would watch this. If you're not planning many overnight trips and you want something that's easy to haul around, the smaller boats are great. I have an aire sabertooth and while it's not suitable for bigger rivers with a lot of water, it's great for stuff like the feather, kern, skykomish etc. They're extremely portable, can be rolled up and stuffed in a trunk and work great as an oar rig and a paddle boat. The star slice and star slice XL are both cheap options. They aren't a wing but for an entry level boat they're great.

[@GearGarageTV]

Yes the sabertooth is awesome. Most people wanting my advice for boats are asking for multi-day boats and this video is my best attempt to answer their question.

[@weirdbeard1980]

@@GearGarageTV interesting. When I got into boating it was all about being able to do things on my own or one other person. I would think people asking questions about buying boats would be people new to the sport.

[@GearGarageTV]

@@weirdbeard1980 Some of them are and some of them aren't

[@yogeshsharma5594]

One of the best ever mada raft is nrs

[@JiFlee]

I like how i looked for the videogame raft and youtube gave me this, nice vid tho

[@joelbashore5658]

WTF is up with WING's website?! You're talking about these boats, I,m intrigued, I go to the website and there is a DEARTH of actual PICTURES of each raft at different angles. Just a blueprint PDF?! Come on. It can't be that hard to add photos.

[@GearGarageTV]

Here are some photos www.flickr.com/photos/nwrafting/albums/72157716065328603

[@cdnelson8358]

What experience have you had that makes PVC such a bad choice? I'm in the market and have noted some pvc boat brands use very thick material, very solid welds, well thought out design and still look great after a decade. And I've seen hypalon boats that look like crap after a few years. So just because they cost less doesn't mean they don't perform as well. Please support your position with factual info that might change my opinion. Thank you.

[@GearGarageTV]

Do you work for a raft manufacturer that makes rafts with PVC?

[@davescott8352]

I’ve heard him speak positively of PVC boats on multiple occasions, specifically Jacks & Aire. Aire is technically a hybrid with the bladder system but has a great reputation. I also know many that swear by JPW and their craftsmanship is 1st rate.

[@GarageGeek]

Look at ANY Vanguard raft floating down the river and tell me PVC still looks great after a decade. lol