What's Causing All These Electric Car Battery Failures?

[@Charlie-UK]

There is a serious issue with manufacturers dealerships Not being willing or able to do repairs at pack or cell level and insisting on absurd EV Battery pack costs for replacement. Until this is fixed by decent Right to Repair legislation, buying a Secondhand EV will continue to be like playing the Roulette wheel with your essential transportation...

[@MrEroshan]

The EV manufacturers need to have a facility to rebuild battery packs and then install them as warranty replacements. Do this for insurance claims as well.

[@maxwellblackwell5045]

It costs to much. They can't make a profit on it.

[@christianschellbruck9788]

The world even dont got a decent recycling System for car tyres. The will be brought to 3rd world countrys and be burned. And you think they could do something like a much more complicated facility for masses of old battery rebuilds?

[@richardryley3660]

I was going to say this. We need recycling of batteries not just to aid in the replacement of batteries that for whatever reason fail, but also to conserve and reuse the materials that are rare and harmful to the environment to mine. While this may be more expensive, it will become increasingly competitive as the resources become rarer and more expensive. If manufacturers start off with the assumption they will recycle them, they won't have to catch up later.

[@maxwellblackwell5045]

@@richardryley3660 people don't have money to pay for these over priced toys as it is. The fact of the mater is the technology is not ready yet. Part of technology being ready is the ability to mass produce it. If it's going to cost more then it has to substantially better to replace the old thing. Evs are not better. They have much lower range for more money. Gasoline and diesel driven vehicles only account for 1% of the total CO2 emissions. So replacing every single ice car with ev with do absolutely nothing to "save the planet". It's a scam. A new group of millionaires trying to become billionaires by cornering the lithium market..

[@richardryley3660]

@@maxwellblackwell5045 This is not a discussion about conspiracy theories and "scams". This is a discussion about science and technology. We don't care whether you like it or not

[@briannickel5131]

Leaf batteries can be quite a bit more degraded than this video suggests. My 2012 has 8 bars, which means it's lost 34-40% of its original capacity. If you search for cheap used Leafs (Leaves?) you'll find plenty of examples with even further degraded batteries. People tend to keep these around as cheap city cars, which is why they don't contribute to the overall percentage of batteries "needing replacement," but that doesn't mean they're still in good condition.

[@narvuntien]

it can get very bad in hot climates, I know I do not trust any Australian leafs to have any range at all.

[@trevorberridge6079]

Seek out my defence of Leafs in the comments. But in brief, your leaf is over 11 years old. The degradation pointed out by Kate is comparing 6 year cycles. My Leaf is just over 8 years old and still has 80% battery SOH. So my leaf at 2 years older than Kate's reference point has less degradation than in her report and your car at 5 years older has more degradation. You're not comparing apples with apples here.

[@michaelsmithers4900]

Agree with Trevor except as you know your car is 16 years old! As kate alluded you should try not to run it to low daily to avoid accelerating degradation. Your car would be perfect for someone like my wife who drives our son 2miles to school and then drives a few miles to get groceries. Not a good choice for me with a little longer commute and nowhere to charge at work…

[@TB-up4xi]

Leafs - (proper nouns are pluralised this way)

[@solentbum]

@@TB-up4xi Should it not be , LEAFs. The name being an acronym?

[@johnfilce9236]

I've long thought the battery issue was overblown. Even if a battery needs replacing at 15 years, ICE engine are also expensive to replace and there's the issue of all the oil changes you never had to do

[@pogo1140]

If you mean the motor, most ICE motors are built to last 150,000 miles and 300,000 miles is not unknown for Toyota's with one million mile Toyota Truck that still had the original motor being bought back by the company from the original owner

[@chrisr897]

ICE transmissions aren’t cheap and fail a lot.

[@pogo1140]

@@chrisr897 automatic transmissions perhaps, but manuals, not so much. The only items in a manual that are often replace are the clutch plate which is designed to wear out and is easy to replace, and in the one's with hydraulic clutches, the gaskets. Manuals from certain manufacturers will last as long as the car itself or longer and many will go on to be installed in a 2nd car after the original car dies

[@pogo1140]

@@EpicDrew15 In the US yes, not so much elsewhere.

[@pmR32red]

@@pogo1140 BS

[@fluxcapacitor]

"Despite the fact that we don't have enough data to disprove this" → utterly false. Some EVs have been riding hard for a decade every day of the week and are over one million miles with the same battery, a milestone that virtually no ICE vehicle could achieve nowadays.

[@edmunoz6524]

The way you do side comments with the 2nd cam is hilarious

[@SueC56]

Impressive amount of information, thanks for your efforts.

[@stefanfrankel8157]

See Louis Rossmann's latest video. The _protective cover_ of the battery pack gets dented by a random pebble in the road and Hyundai wants to charge $60,000 to replace the entire battery pack. This is _not_ the way to insure the transition to electric vehicles.

[@ridingwolf42]

The I-pace software fix (aka H441) is only monitoring. If it detects issues with cells, it limits the pack to not use them and then you need to visit a dealer to have the flagged cells replaced.

[@ThalassTKynn]

One of the things that convinced me to buy the 2020 kona that I'm picking up this week (I hope) is that they told me the pack had been replaced on that recall. 😅

[@usa-ev]

Congratulations! Hope it lasts a good long time for you.

[@concinnus]

Make sure you get documentation, not only bc you shouldn't trust anything a salesman tells you, but also in case you sell the car later.

[@nealy2815]

This channel is brilliant. Love the style and the detail.

[@narvuntien]

One of the things I find interesting is that people seem to think so negative about Chinese cars but CATL (and BYD) have been far more reliable battery manufacturers than the South Korean battery makers. I get things like "oh no I wont buy a Chinese car they'll catch fire" when the Chinese EVs are the ones that don't catch fire.

[@MrDuncl]

If you buy a Tesla in the U.K. it will be made in China and might have BYD batteries fitted.

[@solentbum]

What is really needed is for the industry to make replacement battery packs available from the 'spares' catalogue at a reasonable price.

[@MrDuncl]

Have you been following the Canadian Ioniq 5 story ? The battery costs as much as the car. Proving that doesn't have to be the case a VW ID.4 battery is $14000.

[@solentbum]

@@MrDuncl I do know that when I bought my first LEAF Nissan were promising that a replacement battery pack would be priced at around £5000. But that was 10 years ago, I have not seen a current price. As I understand it the 'Workshop time' for a battery change is less than 3 hours, so a reasonably priced battery would make a viable route to take.

[@MrDuncl]

@@solentbum I would guess that price would be for the 24KWH battery. I wonder if they still make and sell such a small battery. I have commented before that that would be adequate for 95% of my journeys.

[@bellshooter]

Great discussion again Kate. When I was working with traction battery suppliers in 2010/11/12 , to spec a train battery pack, they essentially had no real confidence in battery life , they simply didn't know. This was at Warwick and Leicester universities where infant EV battery/traction systems groups were meeting. They warranted the battery then to get the technology accepted (my supposition, no proof ).

[@usa-ev]

Nice topic and video! My anecdote: we own a 2015 Fiat 500e that stays plugged in and charged to 100% (no option for less). It shows no discernable degradation (must still be within the built-in buffer), which is awesome for 8-9 years and 45K miles.

[@marvenlunn6086]

Not many vehicles that are 8 or 9 years old only have 45 000 miles on them

[@pogo1140]

So you are driving that car at about 1/3 the amount that the average car is driven. Just for comparison, I bought a 10 year old 1980 honda for $800 and drove it 67,000 miles a year for 3 years.

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

⁠​⁠@@pogo1140My sister-in-law has put over 140,000 miles on her Ford Mach-E. With zero DC charges, only AC/Level 2 charging. As of the week before Christmas, it was still getting over 95% of its original range.

[@usa-ev]

@marvenlunn6086 Agreed, this will be a good example for time-based degradation, not distance-based degradation. The low mileage is due in part to the small 84 mile range. But even at that, the number of times it's been below 10% I could probably count on my fingers. Typical drives are just short in-town hops with "longer" trips that leave the battery at 40% SoC maybe once every other month. So it also doesn't have very many true charge cycles and the cycles it has are not very deep (on bottom side).

[@pogo1140]

@@AnonymousFreakYT she should count herself lucky and continue not fast charging the car. Ford as admitted to having issues with the high voltage battery hardware which could cause the car to lose power while moving at speed meaning no drive power, power steering or brakes

[@zsedcify]

Not mentioned in the video are the two different types of lithium EV battery chemistries, NMC and LFP, with NMC garnering a vast majority of failures/replacements. LFP now makes up around 30% share of global EV battery deployments, and while it has lower charge/discharge rates, it lasts far longer cycles, has much better thermal stability, no nasty cobalt and none of the manufacturing/design flaws in LG/SK's NMC cells. CATL at the outset made a huge bet on LFP prismatic cells and it appears they are a global winner as a result. A large % of Tesla's now feature LFP batteries.

[@sahhull]

The LFP battery is not a good battery. It has less cycle capacity than Cobalt. Less charge density than Cobalt batteries. Less discharge capacity than Cobalt batteries. The EV is the only thing in history where the replacement is worse than the thing it is suppose to replace.

[@Mikexception]

Regarding the weight of few hundred kg baterries which is behaving like hammer mouted to cars shell and is made like of thousand eggs all batteries are comparable. They are at their best in laboratory condition, not in case of even small accident After chrarcteristics are usualy no more the same

[@Mikexception]

@@sahhull Make the fundation of house with disposable materials and it is the same case.

[@darthsirrius]

You had me at "Borg cube of disinformation."

[@orionbetelgeuse1937]

like the other "myths" that proved to be real

[@christophersiano969]

Just remember, correlation does not mean causation. But, typically when it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has anode separation like a duck, it''s probably a duck.

[@rp9674]

Apples to oranges, proof of the pudding, at the end of the day when it's all said and done, for all intents and purposes, that's neither here nor there

[@trevorberridge6079]

[4:58] I have a 2015 24kwh Nissan Leaf. It's done over 91,000 miles in the seven plus years I've had it and the battery State Of Health is 80.4%. I've always used my Leaf experimentally as well as practically so no-one can argue with my mythbusting facts because I've lived the proof of them. The idea that Leafs automatically have terrible degradation is wrong. In fact, in the early years, when I changed the way I charged my Leaf it went from 79% SOH back up to 93% SOH. That figure changes all the time depending on how I discharge and charge the battery. And I don't preserve my battery particularly well compared to many other users. Of course I'm in the UK and this may be different in harsher climates. But nevertheless, my battery degradation was not significantly worse than any of the more modern cars you feature in your graphs. So just to summarise, after seven plus years and 91,000 miles my battery is still above 80% State Of Health. Please note and stop reporting Leafs as necessarily poor for degradation. By the way my charging history is 1,519 L1/L2 charges and 1,144 Rapid charges. That equates to 43% of the charging being Rapid charging. Not even Rapid charging eight times in a row on the way from London to Edinburgh caused me to have charging issues or failures as was being claimed at the time. And I repeated the exercise the next day on the way back. I could reel off tales of mythbusting experiences in my Leaf all day. As John Lennon might have put it: All I am saying is give Leaf a chance. ✌

[@economicprisoner]

The Leaf design has the benefit of being relatively simple, with few points on failure. The main issue is that the cells in the middle of the stack under then bench seat may degrade from inadequate cooling. I suspect you may have gone form "79% SOH back up to 93% SOH" by "float charging" those cells; restoring their voltage relative to the other cells. (Cells self-discharge faster when they are warm.)

[@trevorberridge6079]

@@economicprisoner The SOH increased when I restricted the charging to 80%.

[@economicprisoner]

@@trevorberridge6079 That is like the opposite of "float charging".

[@michaeldew7904]

@16:46 Well, this was fun. I really actually enjoyed this section. Obviously the frustration isn't funny, but the implementation into the video was fun.

[@TheAdeybob]

I'm seeing a big increase in anti-ev content on YT being pointed at me. Some of it is apparently unaware it is propaganda.

[@Luka_3D]

Been getting this 'MGuy Australia' recommended to me way too often lol

[@bertoluccib6175]

Nerd alert for showing that 30-year old Acorn A4 laptop! 🤓

[@Dactylonian]

Didn’t see anything in the comments, yet, about the late-breaking Audi e-tron battery recall. Any plans to look deeper into that one? Appreciate your channel - the content, the facts, the research, and the humor!

[@sirenbrian]

Lol! Loved this whole thing; a very British blend of excellent information and sharply observed gags. Brilliant, as Rik might say.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Still waiting for the battery replacement on my 5 year old Kona...

[@jamespaul2587]

One valid concern is the 60k CDN replacement cost for Ioniq5 battery packs damaged by road debris. Hyundai Canada is not covering under warranty as these are not considered manufacturing defects, even though the vehicles do not have sufficient protection. There have been several examples in Canada already.

[@davidmenasco5743]

Thanks for adding that little missing element of FUD. What EV related video would be complete without some classic anti-EV propaganda dropped into the comments? Just in case you're an actual person and not a professional propagandist, be advised that the actual price of the battery in question is 28,000 to 30,000 (Canadian) so if anyone was actually charged 60,000 they were screwed pretty hard by some company other than Hyundai or Kia.

[@jamespaul2587]

@davidmenasco5743 no, the 60k CDN price was quoted by Hyundai for both vehicles, which were written off by insurance due to high cost. Genuine concerns about EVs are not FUD, and these issues need to be addressed by Hyundai. Before claiming this is FUD and 30k is the actual cost, you may want to watch both Motormouth videos which include interviews with the actual owners and a video clip from a repair tech. Even 30k is an exceptionally high cost to replace a battery pack for a new vehicle with insufficient underbody protection. The inability to repair the cooling system for the pack is another concern, as full replacement is an expensive solution

[@TB-up4xi]

@@jamespaul2587 Quoted prices and actual cost are 2 different things - Hyundai Canada confirmed they would have intervened (on the cost not the warranty) if requested by either the owners or insurance companies

[@jamespaul2587]

​@@TB-up4xiintervention doesn't mean any real assistance. One of the owners contacted Hyundai corporate, who referred them back to the dealership for a quote, and warranty coverage was denied.

[@14lou]

@@davidmenasco5743 That is the quoted price for a replacement, so not FUD.

[@robertkirchner7981]

The vast majority of 2017 Bolt EVs in my region are selling for as much as they were in 2020. A new battery is great, but the rest of the car is four years older.

[@stacybehrens7152]

I have a 2017 Bolt with a replaced battery. While true the bits other than the battery are older, my unplanned maintenance costs after >80k miles (128k km) are zero. Literally $0. I’ve replaced a the cabin air filter twice and one set of tires and some wiper blades. Otherwise the car is in fantastic shape and it’s not like we have been babying it. It’s a daily driver with a >60 mile commute. It’s been the most reliable and failure free car (excepting recalls) I’ve ever owned and it’s not even close. Not saying it is without its faults (bad seats, crappy touch screen, slowish charging, etc) but it’s been good value for money overall. Add in the savings in fuel, oil, spark plugs, coolant, other fluids, belts, hoses, filters, etc and it’s been an economic blessing too. Not to mention time saved not going to the gas station and mechanic. If it holds its value in the aftermarket that seems justified provided the battery pack gets replaced.

[@stacybehrens7152]

@@-V-K- Yes I have an other vehicles for longer trips. The Bolt is a great little in town runabout but not really suitable for long trips. Too short of range, lacks NACS, and charging is comparatively slow even at level 3 chargers.

[@stacybehrens7152]

@@-V-K- Hybrids unfortunately are kind of a best/worst of both worlds solution mostly. All the problems, complexity and expense of ICE plus small/no battery range and less storage. Sometimes the right solution but a lot of extra expense for marginal gains usually unless strongly aimed at performance or fuel economy. The issues with taking long trips in the Bolt are not applicable to all EVs. I have a Tesla with 400mi (640km) range and an excellent charging network and fast charging speeds that is great for long trips. I just use the Bolt for commuting mostly and it’s great for that. Plus if I need to there is always the option of renting a vehicle for the occasional long trip if my primary vehicle isn’t appropriate for some reason.

[@servant74]

Thanks Kate! ... I do love your humor (and on occasion frustrations)!

[@DaveLee-jm7ii]

So EV battery pack is indestructible? With EV's high acceleration, I'm sure people will drive crazier than normal car. The extra weights will also add significant damages in an accident.

[@Green__one]

Or, instead of a recall, you could own a Tesla, and then they just go in after the fact halve your charging speed, and remove a few kilowatt hours of usable battery, and tell you that no, there's no problem at all.

[@TB-up4xi]

WTF are you smoking?

[@Green__one]

@@TB-up4xi you obviously never owned a Tesla. Go look up chargegate sometime. My Tesla used to charge at double the rate it does now, and have higher battery capacity. Those were both removed with a software update, because Tesla was worried that too many batteries would fail during the warranty, so instead of recalling them, they neutered them. Much cheaper for them, and who cares about the end user anyway?

[@Yanquetino]

"ALL"…? In reality, EV battery failures are fairly rare. I purport that there are more failures of the battery electronics than the batteries themselves.

[@colinandyas8781]

To be fair most customers don't care. It's like saying well it was only the exhaust valve that burnt but most users would be - needs a new engine

[@economicprisoner]

@@colinandyas8781 Part of the problem is few people do component-level repair on the large batter packs. They can train a standard mechanic to drop the pack (disconnect the 12V battery and the pack generally becomes "safe" (unless it is damaged or has an integrated 12V battery like the Ioniq)). But I guess the extra safety training and equipment for opening the pack is just too much to ask for most garages.

[@MrBigbangbuzz]

Maybe battery packs need to split into say 6 bits .. if one module dies cheaper to replace ?

[@shanefiddle]

Just a quick note from the InterTubes to say again how much I appreciate this channel. This gives mych more confidence to all of us who own EVs, as well as those looking to purchase one. Excellent work team!

[@flyordieinafire]

We should still have more Christmas jokes!!!!

[@davidmenasco5743]

Yes, I was like Give me the Christmas jokes!

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

I like these types of videos, keep them coming !! Happy New Year

[@jimsavarese5221]

We just bought a 2020 bolt from Vroom. We were surprised to find out that we were charge limited to around 80%. Chevy's answer is to drive the vehicle 6200 miles and let us know an error comes up that will limit us to 30% and we'll have to take it in for battery replacement which could take a while. Looking for advice. We were also told by onstar that we have to pay $15 per month to use their app. According to Chevy that's not true. We couldn't install the mychevrolet app without hitting the onstar button. Kind of hating this but the car was beautiful when it arrived. Roughly $17k miles on it. We were so excited, now bummed. We wanted the full range to go to Tuscon and back from 100%

[@teardowndan5364]

My mother's Bolt EV battery went from 500km of range when new to 280km on the last charge and less than 6000km on the odometer. That seems quite a bit worse than just winter range penalty, especially when winter hasn't been particularly harsh so far this year.

[@normt430]

The guess-o-meter can be brittle depending on the temperatures and driving style.

[@ps.2]

Bolts have a 500 km range? Wow, I missed that, I assumed it was in the typical 400-450 km range of ranges. A 44% drop does seem like a lot. Still and all, better to compare at like temperatures and weather conditions.

[@rp9674]

Has anyone had a problem with a gasser? I have.

[@teardowndan5364]

@@rp9674 When something goes wrong with a gas car, you can take it to almost any mechanic shop and get it fix with off-the-shelf parts because there is a 30+ years history of manufacturers being required to make parts readily available on the market in most countries. Access and supply of replacement parts and necessary software for most EVs is far more limited. When something goes wrong with my friends and family's ICEVs, I can often fix them myself. If an EV has anything more serious than seized brakes, software will likely get in the way of me being able to do anything about it.

[@rp9674]

@@teardowndan5364 I've owned and worked on gas vehicles for decades, so I have a pretty good idea what they're about. People talk about waiting for your EV to charge but not about waiting for your oil change you had to pay for, or hassle of doing it yourself, not my idea of fun. $1,000 plus timing belt change, I don't miss. I've done timing belt change, motor mount replacement, fuel pump replacement, water pump replacement, oxygen sensor replacement brake pads and rotors, fuel injector. EVS have fail points also, but far less

[@xxwookey]

Wow, an acorn A4! only 50mm thick and was it CGA resolution with possibly the widest bezel over seen on a production laptop? Does it still work?

[@transportevolved]

Kinda. It has a problem where it pauses every few seconds...for a few seconds. The cure is that I need to strip it down and wash it in distilled water then isopropyl alcohol (again). Did it once when I replaced all the failed caps and it's better, but not fully fixed. Also need to get the SSD replacement for the ST406 working properly too. ^Kate

[@brisman1963]

Brilliant presentation, very interesting information (obviously well researched), & extremely informative. Instantly subbed. And 'as solid as a Vogon constructer fleet' was the cherry on top! Well done Catherine, & anyone else involved in the production of this video. 👍 Also, greetings from Australia.

[@salibaba]

Good coverage of one of the biggest anti-ev mobs talking points. A good guague to work with 1% of all batteries. When there are problems out of warranty, it’s inderstandable that people would be scared of the consequences. Ian Sampson (KZbinr from UK) has recently had one of his family ENV200s (leaf based) start showing a problem. 1st suspect is a faulty module. He’s now weighing his options as it may not be economical to repair/replace the pack vs him scrapping it / selling on and returning to a cheaper diesel option.

[@ronblack7870]

1 % of 10 million is 100,000 that's alot of batteries. and are the replacements any good?

[@ianemery2925]

@@ronblack7870 Nissan continue to bury their corporate heads in the sand over the need for active battery cooling; nearly all Leaf/ENV200 battery failures have been in places where it can get very hot, with low humidity for parts of the year; including, in recent years, the UK. All the reported early Leaf battery failures I read about, were in places like Arizona; where it gets VERY hot and arid during the summer.

[@AerialWaviator]

In U.S. there is no legal requirement for OEMs to provide minimum battery pack warranties on BEVs. California (CARB) and EPA do require minimum battery pack warrantees for PHEVs, as the battery pack in PHEVs is considered part of the "emissions system". So packs in a PHEV have minimum warranty period of 10 years, or 100,000 miles just like a catalytic converter. For BEVs a number of OEMs selling in US market have competitively adopted ~8 year coverage with 75-100,000 miles. Some OEMs even vary pack coverage based on BEV model. Since there is no legislation to enforce, this could change in future depending of competition and agreements between automotive OEMs (eg: as a way to lower EV MSRP at a future date). Note a key reason LEAFs (and other

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

Thanks for an excellent explanation of EV battery life. Happy New Year!.

[@dougowt]

I forgot to ask, did you see Bjorn Nyland's videos when his friend with the workshop (I've forgotten his name), bought an older Model S with a battery fault, drove it back to the workshop and took it apart, to find the problem was caused with the seals and corrosion of the battery casing. From my own experience and from watching these videos from Bjorn, the problems with the older packs seem to be mostly relating to moisture getting into the packs and this could be avoided with maintenance. They have also had the same issue on an eGolf, which was spotted during an inspection. And I've also noticed that the failures of early Tesla motors are causes either by seals allowing flood water into the motor and ingress from the motor coolant, both issues can be avoided with preventative maintenance. It should be possible to keep a lot of Evs on the roads for much longer than we have been used to with ICE cars, we just need to understand the specific issues that can crop up for each model.

[@slowercuber7767]

According to internet anecdotes, the replacement battery is not always new but may be a “refurbished” pack. How common is that? Great show, btw.

[@onegreenev]

Ive been driving EV's since 2009. The problem is people are still thinking gasoline. Something you can dump in anytime you desire and just keep going. The range usually remains the same virtually throughout the life of the gasoline vehicle and they usually dump the vehicle before that for another one. The EV on the other hand must have some serious thought before purchasing or building because the motor will usually out last the vehicle but not the battery and as the battery ages the range diminishes and you can't just willy nilly just go plug in and fill up in a couple minutes and off for another 400 miles and for sure not for the life of the vehicle. The range diminishes and if you calculated your needs wrong you might find yourself on the short end and needing a tow because your range is not what it once was. Then you will eventually get to the point where you won't be able to go the distance you once did and even though the vehicle is still in great condition and still has loads of oomph you just can't go the distance. This is where the person begins to feel the battery has failed but in reality it has not. It has loads of life left but just not what you calculated. The best EV to date is my Fiat 500e but it is in reality just a local around town car with an occasional short jaunt on the freeway. Not meant to travel outside the realm of maybe 35 miles because after you have it for 10 years the capacity will be just a bit around 50 miles. You still need to get home and not every one has access to public charging stations and with that most won't use them because the cost is higher than they would consider so they don't and only charge at home like me. So it is more a failed long term planning vs a failed battery. If the battery fails you will know it. The capacity will drop considerably and quickly and or the battery will erupt in a ball of flame consuming everything. Plan accordingly and don't plan on what the dealers provide as a standard range. Plan on your range being that which the car will give you in the middle of winter with the heater cranking and traveling at minimum 65 mph. Do that for a real world drive and you plan around that. If you don't you may find you don't like them so much. I like them because they are more efficient than gasoline. Not because it is going to save the world from some arbitrary thing.

[@KaiPonte]

Good video. I wonder how many people these days will know what a Vogon construction fleet is. I am constantly being told how bad the batteries are, yet know of zero massive failures among my EV driving friends and co-workers.

[@ClintRichard]

The bottom line is there are just too many batteries in the EV packs linked together up to 7000 in some cases I believe , even one battery that fails will bring up a dash warning. If the single bank was split up into 6 x seperate removable banks for example with much larger batteries say 10-20 batteries per bank and the ability to easily remove a bank for servicing a faulty battery and or replacement of that bank it would reduce the failure rate and cost to a manageable level also the cost of manufacture would be greatly reduced.

[@theoldman8877]

If you could avoid the cell balance problems. As I understand it, when they refurbished a used battery, they replace bad calls with cells of similar degraded levels to the undamaged cell in the remainder of the battery pack. A rebuilt battery is not returned to original performance levels. It is repaired to function at a level equal to that particular battery just before it failed.

[@michaelsmithers4900]

Great video, i’m going to add this one to my saved videos list that I share with ppl who ask me about specific EV topics… Thanks Kate!

[@FreedomToRoam86]

As always, well done! Is good to hear accurate info, both good and bad.

[@dcvariousvids8082]

If a company is going to ‘procure’ tech, you’d imagine they’d ‘procure’ the good bits and leave the trash…

[@LaserFur]

Working First Gen Nissan leaf's are selling for about $4K(us) so that is kinda the cost of a replacement battery. I bought 2 First gen leafs so I have a spare. I am driving the degraded one first and then I'll grab the battery from the one with a bit of a dent. I am of course keeping the other one plugged in and set to 80%.

[@usa-ev]

50% might be better for long-term storage.

[@LaserFur]

@@usa-ev unfortunately it only has a 80% setting.

[@usa-ev]

@@LaserFur Ah, too bad.

[@bradleyanderson4315]

Don’t forget the VW ID4. When the software was updated they scanned bad modules in the LG battery and replaced them . However in some cases they had to stay at the minority of dealers equipped to work on the batteries for weeks. So I will never have an EV with an LG battery ever again.

[@jerrywatson1958]

Great video, that video chat was so funny. Good information for EV consumers. It is getting to the point we can't trust anything made coming from Asia. Even though I am on limited income. I would rather pay the price for batteries made here in the US than imported from China. Those Korean battery companies factories are in China. I am a realist, I have needs for LiPo batteries. The cells come from China or elsewhere, but the company I get my packs from does a 100% check on each cell. They insure that all packs are matched, and QC'd checked during assembly and before shipping. They are 4 years old and still in top shape. I do only discharge to 30% and charge at 1C, most times they sit near or at storage charge. Proper battery management saves you from premature failures. Thanks for all your hard work. I hope all is well for you this new year.

[@capnrichard4967]

Quick thought about reduced range in winter, no doubt it's only a minor contributor but no one mentions that in higher latitudes much shorter days will mean more use of head and tail lights in winter than in the long days of summer.

[@usa-ev]

Nice thought, but lighting has little to do with it. For example my EV has the lights always on day or night summer or winter and the range still drops in winter. Also, range drops even during daytime driving in winter. And doesn't drop during night-time driving in summer. And finally, the amount of power for lighting can be determined and when compared to battery size it's negligible.

[@ps.2]

As @usa-ev says, lighting doesn't amount to a lot of power usage, really, especially with LEDs, and also modern vehicles may light their headlights (at a lower setting) in daytime as well. Much more significant is the heating. The one downside of the insane efficiency of electric motors compared to combustion engines: you don't have a ton of waste heat to get rid of, that you can tap into for free to heat the cabin. So you have to explicitly generate the cabin heat, either directly or via a heat pump (more expensive and complex, but much more efficient). Along with heating the battery itself, especially before rapid charging. I suspect even that's not the main factor for degraded range in winter - that would be either the lower capacity of lithium ion cells at cold temperatures, or the increased rolling resistance of snow and slush.

[@trevorberridge6079]

I'm surprised that the others who have answered your comment haven't mentioned that auxillary equipment such as lights are powered by the 12-volt battery or equivalent in your EV. The power doesn't come directly from the high voltage battery anyway. So using your lights more should have NO effect on range whatsoever.

[@ps.2]

@@trevorberridge6079 Eh? It's a zero-sum game. Where does the energy come from to charge the lead acid battery? Not from thin air.

[@trevorberridge6079]

@@ps.2 Both correct and incorrect. 12-volt batteries get topped up by alternators in ICE vehicles and by the high voltage battery in EVs. BUT, as I said, the auxillary equipment is NOT powered DIRECTLY from the high voltage battery. If you use your car (ICE or EV) regularly the 12-volt battery gets topped up and can hold it's charge for weeks or even months. You will NOT be drawing from the high voltage in order to put your lights on and your range will NOT be affected. The power drawn into your 12-volt is already there for use and won't be drained to the point where your HV battery needs to rescue it unless there is something wrong with the 12V anyway.

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

Well i can see two battery designs having an instant advantage, Blade cells....you can quickly identify the faulty blades and replace them without having to deal with dozens of interconects or goop holding them in place.. The other is the Nio swappable pack root .. got a problem book it in to a swap station as warrenty replacement and they have you back on the road in minutes and can wisk the pack off for recall/refurbishment at a dedicated workshop. Even with no recall the swap stations will automaticly detect faulty batteries charging overnight or bad batch codes and take them out of service. You can also recieve updated batterys and cell technologies that your vehicle can utilise as they arise.🤔🧙‍♂️🇬🇧 It also puts the emphasis on the producers to get things right and make sure things can be repaired and recycled. Roll on Al S and Na battery tech. Aswell as perminant rare earth magnets and copper free motors. 😎

[@nozomikurai952]

While Kate had to edit the video, I noticed the captions are really off, near the end of the video. I doubt you'd spend any time going back and fixing it, but just so you know...

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

Thankfully, captions can be fixed without editing and re-releasing the actual video.

[@transportevolved]

It’s actually not us. it’s YT. :(

[@johndesmond1987]

I think I would worry about it if I had a Hyundai EV6, with its $60K replacement cost. Yes I know, that's in Canadian dollars, but I am in Canada.

[@economicprisoner]

Quoting more than the car is new for the battery replacement is some bull-shit though. The REAL problem is that all these traction batteries are proprietary: with no third-party replacement parts. So the manufactures can charge whatever price they want for a battery replacement. There are some exceptions. A firm in New Zealand has reverse-engineered the Nissan Leaf batteries. They are working on a replacement with water cooling; but are more focused on their local market.

[@johndesmond1987]

A very good point! At the same time, the end customer can base a purchase decision on the replacement part policies of competing manufacturers. It would certainly be a major factor for me.@@economicprisoner

[@kRaCkrrjAcK]

Thanks, this kind of video is helpful.

[@macmcleod1188]

The figure rate for the EVS is similar to The Lemon rate for gasoline cars. The reason a lot are happening is because there's a lot of Eevee's on the road now. The actual rate is quite low. For example the electric car fire rate is 25 per 100,000 but the gasoline car fire rate is something like 67 per 100,000. And the hybrid vehicle rate is over 100 per 100,000.

[@sahhull]

But what happens to those figures when you factor in the vehicle age. The batch of 100,000 EVs will be substantially newer than the fleet of 100,000 ICE vehicles.

[@macmcleod1188]

@sahhull so far there's no evidence that it's age-related for electric vehicles. It appears to be manufacturing defects, overcharging, or an accident damaging the batteries. The rate of fires for electric vehicles has been consistent for the last decade as the number of electric vehicles has increased.

[@sahhull]

@@macmcleod1188 it's a well known fact that most fires happen in old ICE vehicles.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@sahhull Nope. It's a government statistic that most fires occur in Hybrids. Come on man, at *least* google shit before you confidently post misinformation.

[@howebrad4601]

​@@sahhullmaybe but they don't spontaneously combust and burn much cooler.

[@williamfix4285]

Good info and well covered. I have a Tesla model Y 2023. Bought in June. Currently 40k. 99% 250k supercharged. Battery is still like new. I did notice the floor behind the driver's seat bubbles up sometimes after preconditioning the battery for charging. Seems to be a common thing, but supposedly not a concern. I just got a Juice Plus mobile charger I will be using when I can to cut back on Supercharging. Just curious on what the optimum charging method is for Battery health. Lots of factors involved so I can see its hard to know. Very satisfied with my EV. I have gotten gas for two stranded ICE vehicles, a Porsche and a Jeep.

[@simonreeves2017]

Hi Kate, greetings from the U.K. You never let me down with a super slick Hitchhikers reference - Love it! Lots of rainbow love from the historic city of Oxford! 🌈

[@afreire70]

I didn't realize Acorn produced a laptop. Very cool.

[@ps.2]

I think they were just called "portables" back then. Slightly lowered expectations for how you could use them.

[@ChrisBigBad]

LOL Zoidberg! Yes. My 2015 Leaf is now at 79% state-of-health. And I bought it used in 2018 and it was already quite mishandled at that time (85% SOH). And battery-preserving charging to only 80% SoC went out the windows this winter due to range issues.

[@Skotty64081]

I've got a 2014 Tesla Model S, now 10 years old, on the original battery and still going fine for now. I might keep it forever just to see how long it lasts. Range loss was higher in the first few years but now the loss from year to year is negligible. Over the years I've mostly charged to 80% - 90%. A fair amount of fast charging as well from a period of years where I was traveling for work.

[@MrSinnerBOFH]

Nice keeb! And sick color scheme. Ducky? Great content and great Easter eggs in your background.

[@davemeise2192]

What I've noticed recently, and it was very briefly mentioned in this video, are stories of vehicles needing a battery replacement for $60,000.00 US. I know such stories are usually produced by anti EV people/groups but there is usually a small kernel of truth to most stories. Are you aware of anything about these vehicles or stories? Naturally when one needs to replace a battery pack when it is out of warranty it will be expensive but it's no different than replacing the engine on an ICE vehicle. It's going to cost a lot of money. For example I used to own a 1984 Toyota SR5 4X4 pickup with the 22R engine. The engine wore out so I got a price for a replacement engine from my local Toyota dealership. This was in 1986 and the quote was for $12,000.00 CAD. I had the engine rebuilt for $3500.00 and even that was expensive. I don't remember what a used SR5 would have cost in 1986 but $12,000.00 was probably more than my old truck was worth at the time.

[@economicprisoner]

@@-V-K- The only reason the battery needs replacing with such minor damage is that Hyundai techs don't do any electrical repair: so they want to replace the whole thing as a unit, instead on taking the modules out, inspecting them, and putting them in a new case that is not dented. And even IF we assume that the battery is not repairable: there is no reason the component should cost more than the car is new. They only quoted the rediculous price because they think their EV customers are stupid enough to buy another car from them after such treatment.

[@TechViewOpinions]

Great show. Loved the information and debunking of the FUD on batteries!

[@julianguffogg]

Thanks for an interesting and amusing vid!

[@dougabbott8261]

Just a shame Nissan did not have a replacement battery available for the first generation Leaf. They could have done so much better for them selves and their customers if they had a bigger,better replacement available to purchase or lease or ??

[@joecoolioness6399]

Love my Ariya. My Leaf didn't seem to adjust for temperature and I almost got stranded because real life range was about 40% reduced on a winter day. My Ariya drops it's range estimate very accurately I found. The other morning it was 32 degrees F and the range went from 205 miles to 150 miles. And I drove it down to 13 miles range and it was bang on. But if you don't know this going in, you might get a nasty surprise. Now that I know this I plan accordingly. And take the ICE van if I don't have enough range plus a healthy cushion.

[@brushlessmotoring]

Acorn A4 Laptop spotted! Nice. I use RISC OS Pi on a Pi 400 keyboard computer. Gives me A3010 vibes ......

[@fixman88]

I recently got a 2013 Chevy Volt with 63,000 miles on it. The battery has no issues. The battery is rated for at least 160,000 electric-only miles (which being a plug-in hybrid it doesn’t actually have to do all the time). GM bragged about the battery tech and the chemistry being developed in partnership with LG Chem and GM making the packs themselves and using Lithium Prismatic cells.

[@leoyoung7547]

I had 2016 Kia Soul EV battery recall. I got a new battery BUT I lost about 40% of my range! I don't know where to go with this.

[@johnmcconville6055]

Maybe it's not brand new but from a 2016 car.Try getting a SOH check on the replacement battery.

[@ianemery2925]

As I understand it, current KIA Soul battery replacement packs are refurb'ed 30KWh version, which has a different chemistry to the original 27KWH car. I have a 2016 Soul EV that is still showing great battery status, SOH is 96.8% and 26.1KWh of useable capacity, with all the cells still very evenly balanced - down to 0.01v max difference. (Low mileage though, only around 38K). Hyundai/KIA havent improved their times on warranty repairs though, I have had to wait from mid-August to get approval for an OBC replacement; and, as the last time I checked, shipping times from Korea were 10-16 WEEKS, I might not get my car back until 8 months after the OBC died. My loaner is a new Sportage - I can only wish they had given me the newer Soul

[@nicoleqte]

Most defects on the batteries of early Tesla Model S were caused by moisture - not cell failure. NOT fast charging them frequently and NOT pushing the car hard sometime will never warm up the battery and let the moisture dissipate. Tesla made multiple changes on the Model S/X packs over time to reduce that risk. But it’s still a good idea to fast charge and push the car regularly. Source: EV Clinic, Zagreb, Croatia

[@ElectraFlarefire]

Sure.. Just casually whip out your Acorn laptop.. Showoff.

[@transportevolved]

Surely everyone has an A4? ^Kate

[@FameyFamous]

Please tell me more about the benefits of L2 over L1 charging (other than speed). I don’t drive a lot of miles in a typical week. It’s usually not a problem that it takes 3 days to fully charge my Bolt at L2. For those rare occasions, it’s not hard for me to hit a public L2 or DCFC. I’m not sure how long I’ll stay in this house. I’m reluctant to spend the money to install a L2 charger. What am I missing?

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

The other big one is charging efficiency. Higher voltage charging is simply more efficient in terms of “power delivered to the charger circuit that gets stored in the battery,” plus any “vampire drains” become a smaller percentage. If you use remote start/cabin-preheating functions, then using a L1, all of the power is likely going to heating the cabin; whereas on L2, you’d still have enough extra “juice” to add energy to the pack. I even had one instance where I had to turn down the L1 charging amperage to avoid blowing a circuit breaker when charging in very cold environment, and the vehicle had to use energy to heat the battery to charge it at all - I was getting only the barest trickle of actual charging. Less than one mile added per hour of charging, since most of the power was going to heating things up so it COULD charge. Where a normal L1 would have produced about 5 miles of range added per hour.

[@EwanV]

Level 1 is the granny plug, that should take days as your looking at about 2kW to fill a 50 kWh battery. Level 2 is a 7 kW home charger (or 11 to 22 kW if you have 3 phase power) which should recharge overnight. Level 3 is a DC rapid charger, where you hopefully should get 10%-80% in 20-45 minutes depending on the car and charger.

[@LaserFur]

It could just be a correlation. If someone is using L2 charging they tend to stop at 80%, while on L1 you have to set in the car what percentage to charge to.

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

@@LaserFur That also depends largely on the vehicle. Most I have owned use the same setting no matter the charge type. DC, Level 2, Level 1, whatever % you have it set at is where it stops. Some DC chargers (not Level 2, DC) will pause or even stop at 80%, some requiring you to tell it to keep going beyond; but that tends to be the charger itself, not the vehicle.

[@mondotv4216]

Kate was talking about DC fast charging v level 2 charging. Not L1 v L2.

[@oldrrocr]

GM didn't honor the warranty at 60,000 for me on my gas car... so there is that from the old school car makers.

[@francoisguyot9770]

Your knowledge is admirable. I subscribed !!! It looks like no EV battery is quite there yet. So I shall wait until then.

[@esprit1st75]

Great video as always. Love the Acorn!! 🤣

[@overcaffeinatedengineering]

I love Kate's editing-jokes.

[@dougowt]

I finally got to see the rest of this one! Ironically I've been busy delivering EVs, that according to our media, no one is buying?! Its been mostly Merc EQCs recently and yesterday it was a Funky Cat. Maxus have been doing a one year deal on their electric pick up for £81 + VAT a month (it was at £51 +VAT, but those deals are gone). I just wanted to chip in with my own EV battery experience, as I have a 2016 Model S 85D that Elon pays to fill up (free supercharging). Last summer, I got a message on the dash saying the HV battery fuse needs replacing, but I'm okay to keep driving. I booked the car in with Tesla Bristol and on the day, I waited supping on the free coffee. After an hour the technician came out and said he was not happy with the seals on my battery pack and they would have to remove the HV pack. They loaned me a Model 3 to go home in and the next morning the technician rang to say they were going to replace the pack and keep the loaner until its done. They called again later to say they weren't happy with some of the HV electrics and were replacing those as well. The car was 7 ½ years old with 250,000 miles on the clock and they changed the HV battery and some of the electrics under warranty. I'd not had any problems and the range was 220-240 miles. All I paid for was for the fuse replacement and I'd asked them to check a handbrake fault, which they found a broken wire and only charged 1 hour labour and a new connector. In 5 years on EV driving (4 Zoes, 1 Kangoo ZE, a Horwin CR6, and the 85D) this is the only time I've spent money on the brakes. Since collecting the Model S, I spent just over 6 weeks in southern Italy, covering 5,500 miles mostly on free supercharging and I will be heading back again shortly. (Houses are a tenth the cost of property in the UK). I should close by saying, I could never have afforded the current car, without having saved money in the previous years running EVs instead of ICE cars/vans/motorbikes. And having a luxury car, albeit with high mileage, is also made possible due to the low cost of ownership. Driving down to Italy is also much cheaper then it used to be. I spent €70 charging during my last trip, occasionally using the 22kW AC outlet in the town square. Thank you as always, for the interesting content.

[@Maxxmentum]

The suttle pop culture interwoven with news makes the show info fun. ....Upon thou gibble blotches...

[@wallyblackler46]

Does it destroy your battery to supercharge all the time?

[@buzzofftoxicblog791]

😊❤ Thank you your long experience with electric vehicles pays off. thank you. the wave of misinformation from the oil companys is disgusting criminal. we should ban toxic fossil fool burning asp 😊❤ and the sale of the old ice car ... #buzzofftoxic

[@1hjehje]

I don't own an EV but perhaps I will sometime in the future. When travelling in China I saw lots of interesting ones, but unfortunately they are unavailable here in Canada. I like the battery lease option that companies like Nio have. I haven't looked at the economics, but it is interesting to have the option of fast battery swapping and of purchasing a car without a battery which can then be leased on a monthly basis or purchased at a later date. It would be great if a certain percentage of EVs could make use of a standardized battery pack. Standardization should help to reduce costs and provide more options for battery servicing and purchase of replacement. I see Evs as being in their infancy and it will take several years for the vehicles, infrastructure, and service network to mature.

[@The_Book_Of_M]

Keep up the HHGTTG references! I enjoy them very much.

[@geoffsingleton9248]

Just curious if you're following up where the battery packs being replaced end up. Recycled? That'd be good. Landfill? Not so good.

[@fishergb1]

Hi Geoff, Most faulty battery packs are resused,, not recycled or ending up in landfill. They are reused in virtual power plants. Often for network balancing, where they are far more effective than the gas power station alternatives, or as storage. It is estimated that a 15 year old vehicle battery pack has another 15 years of useful life in situ.

[@mdelriobklyn]

ICE engine replacement $6K-$8K with labor. EV battery replacement $22K+ (Telsa) - $40K (Hyundai IONIQ). Simple Math/Facts. That's why when an EV battery needs replacement for any reason, many owners decide to just total the car.

[@pogo1140]

The highest mileage tesla at 1.2 million miles is on it's 4th battery or under 300-400k miles per battery. How ever it's also on it's 14th motor or a new motor every 5-6 years. There are toyota's that are at 1 million miles on their 1st or 2nd motor

[@enadegheeghaghe6369]

You forgot to add up all the years of servicing, oil changes etc on that Toyota. LOL

[@pogo1140]

@@enadegheeghaghe6369 and you think EV's don't need servicing?

[@TB-up4xi]

​@@pogo1140 Pretty much, I have a Tesla with 40k km and zero service costs, my neighbour has a 4 year old Tesla with 110,000 km and zero service costs.

[@pogo1140]

@@TB-up4xi Your service warranty is coming up soon, start lining up affordable tesla qualified service. Per maintenance cost tracking sites, the average tesla annual service cost is greater than the average service cost of ICE cars of the same class. Note: Tesla has been blaming customers behavior for failed parts like the front suspension, struts, steering components, driveshafts. Reuters found that these problems were known by the manufacture and were due to improper design not the customer's actions. Tesla also chose not to report these issues to the safety regulators. When customers reported that they were receiving an error code from the car's self diagnostic system concerning the car's high voltage battery, the company fixed the problem by ordering the computer to stop making the error visible to the customer.

[@gmv0553]

You forgot having to replace the frames in Toyota pickups that are located in the northern US! And they had under 100,000 miles on them!

[@freddyeltigre2327]

The question is simple ! Positive and Negative together is a Huge NO 'No, no matter how you cut it !

[@howebrad4601]

If I heard you correctly, battery replacement is at 1.5%. That's not good, because that means ar least 1 out of every 100 cars will require a replacement. Fuel vehicles have a considerably better engine success ratio of about 1 vehicle in every couple thousand needing engine replacement.

[@timbo9396]

…makes sense - thanks, nice job

[@jlrguy2702]

Sorry but as a EV development engineer, you can't rate battery life against mileage, it's more related to charging and usage than just miles, you get more life out of a battery that is normally kept between a 20% and 80%, but once a month discharge the battery to 5% and fully charge to 100% at a slow rate, never use quick charge trying to get to 100%. Also better when they are used daily discharging the battery every 2/3 days. They don't perform well when kept at a constant rate of charge and are not really used.

[@deaninchina01]

Buying an EV is economic madness. Hertz has learnt the lesson. Even being able to buy them at what must have been a fabulous bulk purchase discount and then associated maintenance program (which no member of the general public has a chance in hell of getting), they were prohibitively expensive with bugger all resale value (because the manufacturers are discounting hugely to try to keep selling new vehicles). Buy one you want to virtue signal, but they require a lot more mining to make than an ICE car, take forever to pay back the huge amount of CO2 emitted to mine the raw materials they are built out of.

[@Anamnesia]

There was the recent story about a man who bought a Tesla model 3 to use it as his UBER vehicle & had to replace the battery after 120,000 miles - all in *_12 MONTHS_* !!! He did the equivalent of 8 years worth of expected driving in 12 months!!! Sure, this is a fringe case, but it debunks your debunk!

[@newdawnalex]

I love y'alls chemistry.

[@MitzaMaxwell]

It's the same problem with petrol cars. My Toyota Yaris runs 22+ km/l in summer 16- km/l in winter. The advantage is that the petrol tank does not shrink over time. So the solutions are that car batteries must be easy to replace and much cheaper than they are now.

[@LonceyMills]

Borg Cube of disinformation😅

[@suggesttwo]

2:21. It's the heater mostly.