It's More Expensive To Repair EVs Than It Should Be. Here's Who Is To Blame

[@Maxxmentum]

Ahh the days of owning a Chilton's manuals and 5 hours in the autoparts store's parking lot.

[@rp9674]

I don't miss it

[@FreedomToRoam86]

In my late 50’s, I don’t miss those days so much! Especially when cold and snowy. But do miss the feeling of taking care of my truck by checking and changing fluids and filters and rotating tires myself, etc. with my 7000 lb Lightning, I’m not so eager to jack it up and find my garage floor damaged as a result!

[@gsilva220]

@@FreedomToRoam86 Even if you wanted to do the tire rotation yourself, it takes a special scanner just to tell the car which tire pressure sensor is going on each corner. The sensors are not the problem, mind you, the real problem is that it could perfectly be done from a menu in the instrument cluster.

[@bobrenner67]

I remember… those were the days

[@toyotaprius79]

I have no idea whatsoever you're on about but I am sure that was last back when I wasn't even conceived of

[@georgemead6608]

Back when I was in H.S., (class of '69), I had a situation where my dad and next-door neighbor convinced me that I should pay a mechanic $10/hr to make a major repair for me. I was making $1.50/hr at the time and quickly realized that even if it took me five times longer to DIY it I would save a lot.

[@markparker5585]

After owning a BMW i3 for almost 8 years I would now never have an EV out of warranty without an extended or third party warranty. A flat 12v battery led to a raft of faults, and a simply ludicrous estimate by a BMW main dealer, which, with research after the fact, I found was not unusual. I eventually managed to find a very good specialist EV repairer, but due (mainly) to difficulty obtaining parts, 6 months later when fully repaired, I still had to sell the car to pay for the repairs. Honestly, from initial breakdown, to difficult recovery, to BMW estimate, to hunt for sanity and final fix, if I wrote it all down, you'd think it was a work of fiction. With the burgeoning used EV market, I know many people are in for a very rude awakening, and I can foresee this being yet another "scandal" in waiting for the anti EV lobby to jump upon in the not too distant future.

[@toyotaprius79]

I've been having my eyes on a 2012 Citroën CZero and I love it too much to stay away 😭💀

[@wingsounds13]

Part of that goes with the brand. Some brands are known to have considerably higher out of warranty service costs than others.

[@gsilva220]

@@wingsounds13 With electric cars, repair costs are high all across the board.

[@gsilva220]

We need right to repair urgently, or it'll be what will kill the electric car this time.

[@colinwiseman]

You're point about the innovation in EVs happening so quick is so prescient. We have to remember the petrol engine was created and sold at a time when literally only the 1% could afford them. So they had time and wiggle room to grow expertise before everyone could afford one and a second hand market was even better. EVs are going through those early days today :)

[@gsilva220]

Except that EV's started before ICE cars, but it took 10 years for ICE cars to be everywhere and even displace EV's, all while EV's died down multiple times and are gonna die again because of the simple fact that batteries do not store electricity.

[@colinwiseman]

@@gsilva220 except that we didn't have the battery tech, and they flooded the market with ICEs when they invented the electric starter.

[@danielcarroll3358]

@@gsilva220 Batteries take electrical energy and convert it to chemical energy, then on demand they convert it back to electrical energy which is then converted to mechanical energy by an electric motor. ICE cars take chemical energy and convert it to mechanical energy in an internal combustion engine. The EV process is much more efficient than the ICE one.

[@gsilva220]

@@danielcarroll3358 Batteries are indeed more efficient, but they have to convert the energy input into something else, and no other system has to do that, not even steam. This means charging a battery introduces a power limit, so manufacturers have to focus on range instead, putting bigger and bigger batteries on their cars, more and more powerful motor to drag all these batteries around, and more electronic gadgets to compensate for the high purchase prices. this is what killed the electric car in the early 1900s, 70's, 90's and will do again, because it's essentially unsolvable.

[@ronaldking1054]

@@gsilva220 No, what killed electric vehicles was the fact that energy density was too low based on the battery technology that was available. That is now changing to the point where the battery might be able to get the density to efficiency so that planes could actually be powered by battery.

[@robertxavierbetancourtjuni8291]

CANOO in Pryor Oklahoma is training Native American mechanics. Pawnee Nation

[@JBean_COCR]

Nikki, great topic and coverage, surprised you didn't include "right to repair" as part of this discussion.

[@toyotaprius79]

Hey folks. Nikki phenomenal video👏👏👍I've a 2007 Prius, still rock solid but the ABS just went kaput. Over the months scouraging for scrap or espeurious parts, labour had spent 400-500 euro, 750 euro in catalytic converters 🤬but every mechanic or Auto Key replacement shop couldn't touch Priuses. Even with replacing the whole system, most third party garages couldn't crack the ECU or outright refuse. While the Toyota Dealership charges €1500 to do the software work, they also quoted €3,000 for a brand new ABS assembly. 🙄💀 Remember how hypothesised dead HV batteries was all the rage? What a f🤬 bloody let down. The truth is something like the first hybrids and EVs should be kept running, upgrading, upcycling and treated like any classic car when they hit 10, 20, 50 yesrs old. Anyone have any community DIY tips and tricks? I know priuschat but it seems that ABS failures are starting to come out of the woodwork and become more common.

[@fredricgrethel1717]

Closed system that Tesla insists on drives price up. Other brands are more open once independent mechanics get trained in electric car tech. We will see how this works out, but Tesla is the worst with Software Nanny disallowing outside service in many cases.

[@ajaj1036]

LIES SERVICE MODE IS SINGLE HANDLY MOST DIY INTERFACE EVER

[@Species-lj8wh]

Most of the independent mechanics I talk with don''t want to learn a whole new system. They will retire as the majority of the ICE vehicles do in 30 to 50 years.

[@bioniccrouton]

Respect of showing videos of yourselves in your kid days. I have pics and vids of myself in a Jheri curl with parachute pants that my wife has not seen and my BFF has instructions to burn after viewing.

[@glsooter]

Love watching your videos, interesting, informative and sometimes downright hilarious.

[@lbcck2527]

When I was in college in mid-80s, I owned a Datsun Sunny Coupe. I bought it for $350. DIY for oil change, spark plug, carburettor (remember those?), fan belt change including water pump & brake assembly complete replacements. Back then, getting used/new spare parts were super easy all guided by service manuals sold at spare parts dealers. Now in my retirement years, I am waiting for the experience of others on true cost & simplicity of EV ownership & maintenance.

[@Species-lj8wh]

It narrows down too. Who is to blame? The answer is YES. The car manufacture won't or can't provide replacement parts. The few body shops willing to work on them are booked out 4-6 weeks. So the Insurance company says, "Screw it. Were totaling out the vehicle." Over a relatively minor fender bender. *slight Edit* Insurance just paid out, and I cannot complain. Paid me as much as I bought the car for 4 years ago. So that went to a 2017 Bolt.

[@gsilva220]

The insurance companies are monolithic algorithms designed to make money, they can't be blamed. The body shops have to deal with non repairable parts hiding fragile code-encripted electronic components that can easily make the shop lose all the money they will make with the repair, and then some more. Some shops will make crazy estimates, some will take an eternity, some will refuse to work on it. The manufacturer is to blame, it is not sustainable, period.

[@overcaffeinatedengineering]

Feeling happy about my Bolt purchase. Amongst other things, I do have an easily accessible fuse box! The last EV in the world to provide it (I speculate).

[@gsilva220]

how about the internal fuses on the battery pack?

[@divid3dbyZero]

@@gsilva220Not sure what GM will do for the Ultium Bolt, but the current Bolt battery pack can be taken apart and reassembled without worry of running into adhesive issues. All the way down to the cell packs. Just lots of fasteners. I could do it my garage if I was cray enough with mostly standard tools. Purely talking assembly and dissasembley there.

[@bioniccrouton]

Thanks!

[@geirvinje2556]

In Norway they have right to repare. But, if you damage your battery, they can't fix the units that are damaged. You need to replace the whole battery. This drives up the insurance. But, I hope EU, put in some laws, here. To fix this.

[@gsilva220]

First thing to do is to get rid of self igniting battery chemistries, which behave essentially like gunpowder in case of a fire.

[@geirvinje2556]

@@gsilva220 You are lying, or you haven't a clue. We had 279 fossile car fires. And, 15 electric car fires. The main reason for the fires in electric cars, are the electronics for the light and heating. Same as a fossile car. When a fossile car burn, it's not news. In the US, 167 cars bruns a day. You would need more than one thousand reporters to do this. Do you think we should get rid of fossile cars? 1. Breaks gets warm. 2. The injection system fails 3. The engine gets so hot, it can ignite plastic and other things. 4. Diesel cars have runaway. 5. You sitt on one of the most flammable liquid we know of.

[@station240]

They should at least have a dedicated battery repair shop, probably not something specific to one manufacturer. It's a HV safety hazard working on the battery pack in a normal automotive workshop, so need a separate room at a minimum. Sure people would be without a car for a week while the pack is sent off, repaired and sent back, but that's better than paying $16,000 or whatever an entirely new pack is. Often it's not even the battery cells that are faulty, but a bad contactor, defective BMS, loose connection or broken coolant pipe. It's insane to be forced to pay 10s of thousands for a $100 part. Should also have a workshop that repairs ECU type electronic modules, it's stupid to spend up to $600 on replacement when opening it up and replacing the burnt out mosfet or chip is a perfectly valid repair.

[@geirvinje2556]

@@station240 I agree. They had a investigation program on TV regarding this. One of the programs was about a VW i.d. 4, with something wrong with the battery. A local repare shop fixed it for $500, when VW told that it was a write off, because the battery needed to be changed. I think there was another episode, where there was a Porsche Tycan...

[@ahaveland]

I feel seen! Got my first car at 19 in early 80s for £300 - a Ford Escort MkI estate, vomit green with a black roof.. Loved it to bits and did all my own work on it, even replacing a broken leaf spring after taking 10 mates home from the pub and going over a bump too hard. Next was a MkIII 2 door Cortina GT, and changed the engine twice on my own. Since then had a few cars such as XR3i, MR2 MkI, XJ12, Sierra GTX, Nissan 300ZX, Mitsi Pajero and did as much as I could myself, changing engines, repairing radiators, clutch, tie rods, brakes etc. Now I just have a scooter and ebike for the last 8 years - much easier and cheaper to maintain, and saved a fortune which I can use to get a decent EV now.

[@10lawngnomes37]

I wonder how ease of repair will balance with the "mega-casting" push to lower prices. I'd rather not have multi-ton vehicles that are cheaper to buy than repair, and thus "disposable".

[@cyberoptic5757]

Stay tuned. Me too. We;re in the early days of gigacasting

[@gsilva220]

Super-duper-mega casting isn't cheaper than stamped steel, it's just a way to achieve better dimensional repeatability and make cars less repairable in case of a collision. If we let them have their way, cars will indeed become disposable.

[@georgemead6608]

@@gsilva220 Yeah, that is my concern. Collision repair is going to be a whole new ballgame.

[@scottokeefe]

Yes I found a shop that works on the used EV before I bought it. Like your haircut. And love your show.

[@davidhuber6251]

I'm looking forward to the day where you can buy motors, controllers and battery modules for converting cars and starting a small business making niche vehicles.

[@LaserFur]

It's cheaper to do a battery swap on a old EV. I am looking into the costs involved for the lift equipment.

[@ronaldking1054]

Electric Classic Cars, EV West, and there are others.

[@gsilva220]

@@ronaldking1054 golf cart motors for 6 grand and tesla drive units for 12 grand are not real options.

[@ronaldking1054]

@@gsilva220 Ford's Eluminator is under $4k and it is exactly what they put in their Mach-E's.

[@gsilva220]

@@ronaldking1054 It needs a custom controller that pushes the costs well beyond 10 grand.

[@rbdogwood]

Valid stuff. My Nissan is ridiculously expensive to service considering the simplicity of the device. Mainly because it's the selling garage, I suspect. I think the post warranty annual servicing will be the area where independent garages will come in and settle themselves and they'll expand their expertise to fit, find aftermarket suppliers and develop procedures. Overall however, I think the cost of repairs etc will have to remain lower than the price of leasing. I note the worry about mega-casting repairs; I think if you manage to damage a mega-casting the chances are that similar damage to a conventional body would have written it off. If a small bump writes off an expensive EV then the owner will be letting it be known and the manufacturer will have to evolve or die.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

other than tires, im not tracking anything on my EV. i cant think of any other standard maintenance for an EV? is there any? i know dealerships are still bring EV s in every as often os they did for ICE, but are they doing anything?

[@linusa2996]

Does your car have a heating and cooling system? There should be 2, 3 even. Headlights, signal lights? Does it have a driveshaft connecting the motor to the wheels? A suspension system? Windshield regulators? Open your owners manual and go to near the end of the book. If the car is built by a legit manufacturer there will be a maintenance schedule which will have the items the manufacturer knows will fail or have to be replaced.

[@heathwirt8919]

@@linusa2996 Amazing how so many fall for the Tesla false advertising hype that EV's need no service or maintenance.

[@rp9674]

They're mostly freeing you off some money, but hydraulic brake systems and cooling systems need occasional maintenance, not so much brake pads maybe lubing the moving parts to prevent brake drag and flushing fluid

[@linusa2996]

@@rp9674 cooling pumps and hoses need to be checked, the one for the battery and the one for the passengers. Sensors, cameras, a failure in one of those can cause your car to slam on the brakes, if that happens st 65mph, well we've seen the results of that as it was caught on cctv.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

yes, BUT since none of those were ever considered normal maintenance on an ICE vehicle im not going to let them pretend they are normal maintenance on an EV just so there is a reason to charge me 100 bucks every couple of months.@@linusa2996

[@godofdun]

8:16 is there a list somewhere of automakers that will allow technicians to replace modules instead of having to replace the entire pack?

[@bitley]

This is my exact finding & I'm a genX who just got a BMW i3. It is a very simple construction and it should be super easy upgrading it.

[@franciscobermejo1779]

Another brilliant one! Thanks so much 😊

[@MrFester]

A KIA dealership here in Atlanta Metro only has 1 tech certified to work on EVs and booking appointments with them is like trying to book with the dentist. Months out!

[@cliffmeima2015]

Nice Job

[@jervin2]

It seems that when the percentage of EV's reaches the knee of the curve (when most cars are EV's), and since EV's require much less maintenance, The Car makers will have to resort to planned obsolescence and Car Dealers will have to resort to charging more for a smaller number of cars being repaired, or they will go out of business so that the smaller number of repair places will have a sufficient number of vehicles to repair.

[@rp9674]

Hopefully setting the stage for aftermarket shops

[@Species-lj8wh]

I think that the majority of independent auto repair will eventually close as the older mechanics age out and retire. Same with the Jiffy Lubes of the world. Just like riding a horse became more of a hobby, so will having an ICE vehicle.

[@rp9674]

True, still hydraulic brakes, steering, suspension, cooling systems, tires

[@Koulis_]

I imagine there will be more independent EV specialists springing up as Evs get older, it's not rocket science in terms of knowledge to repair them. The parts availability may be the biggest problem if manufacturers don't produce enough new old stock for those earlier models.

[@daves1646]

Nice pic of engine bay with twin SU’s!! Carbs on wrong side for Datsun. What’s that oldie??

[@gregchurch5864]

Looks like Triumph 1500TC of 1980s

[@mikejoseph425]

I thought your channel was set up to encourage the use of EV’s not to frighten people off. I think you are changing from a reporter to an actor. You are much better as a reporter

[@transportevolved]

We have to be honest - and the honest answer is that some in the industry are making it hard to repair Evs. That's not hyperbole. It's fact. Also, explain the "Actor" comment?

[@mikejoseph425]

@@transportevolved I have been a real fan of yours in your reporting of the industry but lately you seem to be playing to the camera

[@transportevolved]

Playing to the camera?

[@mikejoseph425]

@@transportevolved you are a very capable person, I think you know exactly what I mean. Don’t play Cupid with me, we are both married 😜 On a more serious note you are making me feel bad about driving an EV and taking into account you are one of the people who had influence on me buying an EV and installing Solar and batteries, I am not appreciating your tract. Can I go to bed now, I am a cockney

[@daves1646]

We’ll be living in the Wild Wild West of EV repair until vehicle content starts to standardize, # on the road justifies 3rd party part availability, and TRAINING and CERTIFICATION broaden (# on the road … again).

[@willpatton9529]

I live in a rural area in north Florida, and I see the diesel douche bags coal rolling all over. They they should be ashamed. I get alot of hate about my Leaf but I'll take the dirty looks anyday over driving a ice car again and you best believe I show them what up with The 0-60 in under 10 seconds 😉 I get the biggest smile when dust them lol

[@howiemeltzer7040]

My first car in 1967 was a 1959 Austin A40 Farina with 948cc. Cost me $25.

[@andrewdyjach7305]

Correlation is not causation by itself, but it is a prerequisite. Also we can hope that due to having fewer moving parts our EVs won't need as many repairs as ICE vehicles.

[@bioniccrouton]

I believe it is time that will ease the repair woes. The transfer from horse and buggy didn't happen overnight. But they had adventurous do it yourselfers who repaired their property unlike today where the right to repair shouldn't even be a debated thing.

[@whitlockbr]

My jeep was getting repaired every week.... had to get a new tesla.... was cheaper than the repairs!

[@heathwirt8919]

When your tesla is out of warrantee it will cost more to repair than a new Jeep.

[@toyotaprius79]

Nikki, I had a rewatch on the telly and enjoyed the change and blossoming in your production style. To you and all the Team ❤👍 the gags, remember the whole Hullabaloo about the Prius being new and gay and that Simpsons gay electric car? 😂😂 🏳️‍🌈 But what I truly appreciated is that you honed into a particular problem of redundancy. The business model of redundancy. The story of stuff etc. What would Abigail Thorn say? And might I add, I always wondered have you've ever thought of those Nebula channel networks?

[@transportevolved]

We’ve never been invited to nebula… It’s Invite only :(

[@benbrown8258]

Is it me.. or was it in the late 1970's early 80's that home economics, wood shop and auto shop was largely removed from being on site in many schools across the country and it coincided with the change in laws reinforcing corporations loyalty to shareholders and developers over consumers and the public? The 1980 U.S. Supreme Court decision Diamond v. Chakrabarty became used as a cudgel to amplify corporations rights over individuals beyond its original intent. As Doris Janzen Longacre put it, our culture became helpful in removing agency and capacity from people while giving the illusion of more efficient access, luxury and sophistication. My take on it is it is I agree with you Nikki its magical how trucks can be modified to roll coal but not fix my headlight because they don't have a certified mechanic for my vehicle.

[@Russwig]

Keep Evolving Nikki!!!

[@Dvortex1]

Millennial here who is just grumpy. Also, get off my lawn 😊

[@rp9674]

EV versions of gas vehicles get a win on maintenance, plenty of gas Fiat 500 easy to get body and interior parts from

[@transportevolved]

This is true!

[@ThalassTKynn]

These are the reasons the only new car I want is an Aptera. It's bicycles or old subarus for me lol

[@joevwgti.]

I worry, as a man, that working on, and having bought an electric car, has turned me gay. My husband is bound to be shocked too.

[@sirgardensalot]

Look at an extended warranty from car edge

[@rp9674]

I wouldn't, I got a car warranty, it was garbage

[@gsilva220]

They never honor these extended warranties, they always find a technicality to deny coverage.

[@Elfraty]

aptera----right to repair oh yeah!

[@afellowguy1933]

Lmao the stock footage is amazing, couldn't they just get some actual mechanics to act?

[@Max86421]

EV's is just battery on wheels 🚗 🚘

[@heathwirt8919]

As poor an analogy as saying an ICE vehicle is just gas tank e on wheels.

[@toyotaprius79]

And oftentimes, especially what's available second hand, they're an ICE platform stuffed with them

[@rp9674]

Yes a battery and motor cabling Electronics to control charging and drive units, Electronics to control safety equipment steering brakes climate entertainment Etc