What's Next for U.S.-Russia Relations? Stephen Cohen & Ken Roth on Trump, Hacking & Tillerson

democracynow.org - We turn now to take a broader look at U.S.-Russian relations in the wake of Donald Trump’s election. On Tuesday, Trump officially nominated Rex Tillerson, chair and CEO of ExxonMobil, to be secretary of state. Tillerson is known to have close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who awarded Tillerson the country’s Order of Friendship decoration in 2013. One of the focuses of the Senate confirmation hearings will be Exxon’s $500 billion oil exploration partnership with the Russian government’s oil company, Rosneft. Considered the largest oil deal in history, the partnership can only go through if the U.S. lifts sanctions against Russia, which the Obama administration imposed over Russia’s intervention in Ukraine. The news of Rex Tillerson’s nomination came just days after the CIA accused Russia of meddling in the U.S. election to help Donald Trump win. Trump has rejected the CIA’s conclusion, decrying it as "ridiculous." But President Obama ordered a review of Russia’s role in influencing the presidential election. With us are Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, and Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University.
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[@GatelliteSimp]

Cohen for the win. Love this man's calm, rational and reflective thinking.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

He was very calm, he have his opening remarks which were broad and fine and then Roth launched into personal attacks. Cohen let that go but he was given no time to respond

[@bbob70]

Stephen Cohen is the only smart person in that room.

[@liagog]

thank you for a splash of sanity prof cohen

[@aceandrews9784]

Mr stephen is a great man! Roth is what is wrong with the world! Can't believe he is the chief director or human rights!! Shame on you Roth

[@antonlopez382]

outstanding debate! I found Mr. Cohen extremely fascinating. I would love to hear him speak more on the subject. please have him on again soon!

[@garyseven1894]

I've been following Cohen's work for many years and he has ALWAYS remained consistent, thoughtful and precise. Roth only confirms the concerns that many have had, that both HRW and Amesty Int are both penetrated by USAID/CIA type of influences that color their overall view of world affairs. Chomsky has even brought this up from time to time.

[@ClubCovertLondon]

Shame on Roth.

[@countingcoup]

Stephen Cohen is the voice of reason and substantiated facts... We need more of him and less of MSM talking points...

[@Mr.Henrik]

Cohen makes the other guy look like a kid.

[@308_Negra_Arroyo_Lane]

Dang, that Ken Roth guy is such a hack.

[@TimBradleyFromOz]

*ROTH:* _"Russia Russia Russia [insert many allegations as if they were fact, all aimed toward vilifying Russia]"_ *COHEN:* _"Chill, Dude, lets keep calm and get some facts so we can avoid war."_

[@TimBradleyFromOz]

Red&Black Flag Absolutely. There is a disease infecting the weak-minded on the left, turning them into "Regressives". These Regressives take a position on an issue, toss critical thinking out the window, dig themselves in, and scream at people who don't agree. We saw it with Sam Harris. We saw it with third wave feminism. We see it on campuses banning speakers they don't like. Now we seem to be seeing it with an anti-Russia agenda. As a definite Progressive, I hate being "grouped" with these guys. They're not "the left", they're "the left-my-thinking-cap-at-home" group. This Roth guy is possibly worse though. He may be just another Regressive, but he may also be intentionally acting as an agent for the neocon-liberals. I don't know, but if he is the latter then he is traitor to people everywhere.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

Both of you are idiots. I am disgusted that it seems anytime people say "we are being too hostile to Russia" all the insane loonytunes far right conspiracy freaks come out of the woodwork to agree. It delegitimizes the entire discussion when this happens. And then the usually more reasonable center-left crowd responds by calling absolutely everyone who doesn't hate Russia a Putin slave. Stupid on both sides

[@manatee2500]

Platypus, dkim2011 knows The Nation magazine well and has met and worked the previous editor. What we hate, if I may speak for dkim2011 is the unconditional love Cohen has for Putin's regime. It runs counter to our decadent western values.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

manatee2500 Cohen does not have "unconditional love" for "Putin's regime" though. That is an outright lie and again he ought to sue you if you published it.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

Red&Black Flag I think they are a little too closely tied to official US government positions for sure. But, again, they still LARGELY are an important and useful organization, just some blind spots.

[@stevepolychronopolous6093]

ughhhhhhh why did you stop ???? this was gonna be an amazing debate where Ken Roth would get his ass handed to him

[@manatee2500]

When?? Cohen spoke most of the time and couldn't rebut Ken Roth's points about Putin's prior actions.

[@stevepolychronopolous6093]

manatee2500 towards the end he started to... but then it stopped :(

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

Cohen wasn't given a chance to rebut anything Roth said. Roth was really quite aggressive in his rhetoric, it was typical though. Cohen is an academic and is more open minded and not so fast to make these judgements

[@valentinabelousova8883]

And the Human Rights Watcher sounds like he's panicking. Why's that, I wonder? Once again, Dr. Cohen is brilliant!

[@hellverlaine]

Stephen Cohen deserves a medal for keeping so calm in the face of Ken Roth's ceaseless stupidity. DN move to the center continues apace and the NYRB is giving space to anti-Russian think tank fantasies as peddled through Ken Roth? God help whats left of the intelligentsia.

[@b.terenceharwick3222]

Nice interaction...let's have more like this...

[@JMidoriya]

I wholeheartedly agree.

[@b.terenceharwick3222]

Javien, Yep. A timely issue. Mr. Cohen sounded particularly well informed. I hope Democracy Now will not wait long before having him on again.

[@90210bribri]

+B. Terence Harwick yea he's good ,makes sense

[@davidpayne3489]

Props tp democracy now for a discussion on issues without rude shouting over each other. How wonderful it would be if networks tried the same.

[@elenaherwagen3529]

That's what I've always said: leaking, not hacking! 👍👍👍

[@tatiana8077]

Stephen Cohen you nailed Sr !

[@commimajor]

should of debated more

[@Vdogg333]

Cohen won the debate need to have in on MORE OFTEN!!

[@sueinraleigh3091]

Kenneth R oth sounds insane.

[@magnusbooth4719]

Thank you for airing this relatively calm discussion at a time where most people seem to be shouting at each other. While I might not agree with everything Professor Cohen says, I do think his points are important to hear.

[@michaelzurkinden116]

Surprised how Amy is framing her questions - objectivity lost - cannot believe it

[@jennybachmann9047]

Steven Cohens blatant arrogance and superiority made my day! "oh for god's sake!"

[@ggmo3664]

Me too : )

[@jackchorn]

He called him out at the end for slandering putin

[@jojomama4787]

yes,the U.S. needs to rethink it's policy toward Russia,the only downside may be their oligarchs conspiring with U.S. oligarchs

[@RonLWilson]

Very Interesting discussion. I would like to here more, It seemed to end just when it started getting interesting.

[@elenaherwagen3529]

Ron Wilson It didn't seem to end then, I think they came to blows afterwards :) Stephen seemingly saw red and rightly so. Great discussion though, and yes - too short.

[@Sam61493]

never did I think a democracy now video would be overrun by /pol/

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

It's unfortunate , it ruins the Russia discussion completely and delegitimizes everyone on the left who doesn't want hostility towards that country

[@romanjansen8865]

Ignorant Kenneth Roth.... and intelligent Cohen... This is what we are up against... pffff

[@polyclot1976]

good debate

[@GodzillaGoat]

Sounds like Roth needs to move to Russia.

[@angiebyars5242]

Amy, I wish you had shut down Cohen, when he interrupted Roth, as soon as Roth spoke. Roth gave Cohen his air time but Cohen was obnoxious and rude. He was disrespectful of Roth's time. Roth should not have had to defend from attack. Please, use your moderator power to demand that guests not interrupt when you've given time allocations. Adore your show and respect all the hard work of the Democracy Now team. Thank you.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

Are you serious? Roth was incredibly rude to Cohen and I was amazed Cohen didn't interrupt during his rant

[@mrshangpa]

Actually I think Prof Cohen has been overly polite and patient, much more than K Roth is worthy of. I'm sure Cohen detests the fake man across the table yet he refrained from attacks and accusations and stayed with facts and analysis. Meanwhile Roth built everything on accusations.

[@sashavingardt1063]

If one defends a dictator giving them the "benefit of the doubt" as well as the political and social structure they represent, then yes, you are their apologist.

[@dootdoot1867]

.................. WE ARE BOMBING 8 COUNTRIES CURRENTLY. *WE HAVE A OFFSHORE TORTURE FACILITY IN CUBA* Apologist? Lets be real here.

[@sashavingardt1063]

You pulled off the good ol' switcheroo just now. Russia's favorite propaganda tool. First off, nothing is black and white. Second, nothing is mutually exclusive. And thirdly (probably should've been the first), I was addressing the interview at hand not trying to summarize my world view in 140 characters or less. Is this gonna fall on deaf ears?

[@sashavingardt1063]

We? As in Russia?

[@angellight5040]

The answer is always obvious when it comes to this matter, of course he's referring to the US.

[@ggmo3664]

Ignore Sasha. An Ex-pat troll clearly . Bitter tears eh ?

[@9991revilo]

Roth's obsessive references to "reality" aren't exactly the sign of an impartial observer

[@craigdumas8152]

I have a Question. How many Military Bases DOES Russia have around the United States. ZERO. WHO'S the AGGRESSOR. OH HAS TO BE RUSSIA RIGHT. GIVE ME A BREAk

[@Seve141]

Ken Roth ---- "Let's look at the facts" Wow, I hope he is being paid well for his willful disregard for reality.

[@floydzepplin1218]

MSM is a waste of time, other than a nighttime bed story

[@tomasc7621]

9:20 WTF?

[@joshuapaul2022]

I've lost count of which "Red Scare" we're on now. Someone wake me when Washington stops insisting on humiliating itself in public.

[@warriorwaitress7690]

Here is a bit about the report from Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity which was referenced by Prof. Cohen: consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/

[@ggmo3664]

Thank you .

[@119mr.president2]

GOD BLESS PRESIDENT DONALD J TRUMP

[@JohnCKovach]

Amen ! The 'Whore-of-Babylon' is doing her best to doom the U.S. Hillary, Bill and Obama are traitors ! For those that don't believe, read Hillary's E-Mails.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

Stephen Cohen despises Trump just so you know

[@manatee2500]

You didn't watch his RT interview did you?

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

manatee2500 When, which? I saw him on RT on the "Worlds Apart" show where he engaged in a thoughtful sensitive discussion about that country's relationship with Stalin and how to reconcile both the great progress of USSR with its crimes. He is married to the Editor in Chief of the USA's leading lefty periodical.... I really doubt he is pro Trump

[@manatee2500]

Love for Putin conquers all, Platypus. Check out his interview with Sophie on RT about a week after the election. Sophie finished the interview gushing that Cohen should run for president in 2020. Katrina better watch out. I've read/subscribed to the Nation for years, btw.

[@648531]

why the moderator counts seconds?

[@iamski]

Democracy Now has a limited time on air, literally.

[@648531]

But thats is not democracy, im as a swiss know what that means......and btw ...your on you tube not on air???

[@iamski]

Hoki, Democracy Now is originally aired on PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) and later shared on their KZbin channel. They have a limited time on air because their broadcast is only one hour long. That means they not only have to cover interviews such as this, but also the top headlines in the beginning and other stories of significance. So it's difficult to squeeze so much content in such a short amount of time. But what we get in return is a news program which is without ads, government funding or corporate sponsorship. and they are able to produce their show at a fraction of the cost of the major news outlets of this country. I understand you're confused, especially looking at it from a foreigners perspective, however, let me be blunt in saying this news program is one of the last journalistic organizations with integrity left in America, and you're lucky to get intelligent and thought provoking interviews such as the one we're watching right now. Oh and btw... it's "you're on KZbin, not on air." Your is possessive adjective, "this is yours" and you're is a contraction of "you are." But don't fault yourself too much for not understanding that because even my fellow countrymen can't tell the difference sometimes.

[@crithon]

I agree with him, but man he's as arrogant as Bill O'Reily.

[@MrBuzben]

LOCK THE LEADERS OF THE WORLD IN A ROOM TOGETHER....

[@cjtuckerbpmc]

Wow ending our dependency on middle East oil for decades that would be horrible for foreign policy(sarcasm)

[@kRis-rn6so]

Wow, Steven Kohen does the Trump thing: points his finger, rudely talks over opposition's dialog, blames them, does not believe professional intelligence gathered, and refers to history past as explanation for the present.

[@ggmo3664]

Ex-pat ?

[@puppetperception7861]

your Jeb Bush fantasy was never possible

[@wangray9456]

Human rights argument has become more and more of a card to play to discredit others. The truth is nobody is saint and you can always use it conveniently.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

I agree but I think there are still some worse situations than others correct? It's not equal everywhere even if there are always some problems. We should not go to extremes and just ignore all abuses simply because everyone does some

[@wishfull9036]

HRW man talking politics! Now I know whether it's true of not that HRW is not politically neutral.

[@johnhandcock8957]

I stopped watching at 11:20

[@1PinkDove]

Hillary Clinton " the Grinch that stole Christmas"

[@jiykauu]

Yeah Ken Roth, lets put more pressure on country who has the most nukes and given we have NATO forces and racket systems on their borders. That's defiantly will defiant all the human rights.

[@manatee2500]

Russia, aka Upper Volta with rockets, knows quite well that the US has an equal if not greater nuclear arsenal. But wait, it is there not a logical inconsistency I detect? You mean Russia is not the defender of progressive values??? Why would they underwrite all the left wing shows on Russia Today?

[@manatee2500]

I can't take credit for it...but I haven't heard it used for a while...

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

manatee2500, You just hate Russia and want to destroy them you sound exactly like Hitler. Wtf is wrong with you? This is so unreasonable and disgusting. I agree the far right thugs pretending that HRW is evil are insane but you are also saying absurd things here

[@manatee2500]

Wrong, Monsieur Platypus. Putin has created a nightmare for his people and is corrupt beyond our comprehension. After living through the 20th century and spilling their blood for the glory of Stalin and Lenin, and the Tsar, they deserve much better.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

manatee2500 Upper Volta with Rockets is basically Nazi thought. I am aware it originated in hateful USA propaganda circles. That you would unironically use it is mind boggling and betrays your total absence of open mindedness or curiosity about Russia

[@SofaKing448]

13:36

[@thegreatfrap]

Not very surprising that prof of Russian studies is so pro Russian but the ego on this guy is something else.

[@manatee2500]

He's in the vanguard of his splinter Leninist sect....of 9 faithful members. A old-time true believer. Funny how Navasky (then editor of The Nation) didn't invite Cohen or Katrina to be a part of the roundtable with the Soviet press in 1990.

[@manatee2500]

He's a cool dude, part of the democratic left, the kind who use the means at their disposal to be effective and don't just play parlor games in their upper west side apartments and argue about dead despots. There's no Lenin bust in his residence.

[@manatee2500]

It's a shame, in the same year that we lose true heroes like Michael Ratner and Jack Greenberg that this toadie Cohen is still around...

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

He really should sue you manatee2500. Man up and put those words in print so you can get sued

[@manatee2500]

Sue me for what, you don't sound American, Platypus. We have freedom of speech here, that's why we have to put up with Kremlin Today (I mean Russia Today).

[@ruidean72]

How about talking about China's Human Rights Record?

[@netabaughman3079]

If you care about human rights then why not cover Standing Rock. Do you really care?

[@scriabiniste]

Bravo, Stephen Cohen

[@Maksimilijus]

cohen can school this man on this subject any time...

[@tomasc7621]

MobRuleNow!

[@Vlajko1312]

Is this Ken roth character for real? Whne he says "officials cosing up to oil reach autocrats" the first thing comes to mind is Bush family brown-nosing to Saudis. I mean this amount of hypocrisy is mind boggling!

[@liamj2363]

You're right, but I don't see how it's relevant. Can Trump be excused for anything as long as Bush did it too?

[@00BillyTorontoBill]

Tell me Cheney's portfolio didnt flourish a boatoad. No way around it. If politicians cant get elected...then business will step up and fill the gaps,.

[@jacobtthoronn672]

Well manatii, just check the Phoenix program implemented by your beloved country in Vietnam, Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile, Cambodia, Laos, etc etc the champions of humans rights freedom and democracy !!

[@blizzardchilled]

they have bad ass hackers at the Kremlin

[@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl]

They hacked the German Bundestag this year!

[@manatee2500]

The logic is that if you say the truth and say you were hacked, you're asking for war. Trying to remember how Pravda explained Molotov-von Ribbentrop...

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

manatee2500, We still don't have good proof of the hacks. Any government can claim they've been hacked for whatever motivation they have.

[@manatee2500]

And we never will because there will never evidence good enough to satisfy Cohen or the flock of sheep who follow him. But just suppose there is, what then?

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

manatee2500 Well there can be no doubt the Russian stance was anti HRC and pro Trump which does greatly distress me as a liberal American who nonetheless dislikes our hostility towards Russia. I feel like everything is going wrong in terms of a more peaceful and stable world environment. But we'll have to wait and find out, as much as I loathe Trump for his incoming domestic policies he will pursue, if he achieves less hostility with great powers it could be a good thing. He does seem to be ramping up the anti China rhetoric at the same time though which is worrisome.

[@pebre79]

Putin is playing 4d chess when the left is at each others throats and the right cozies up to russia

[@patrickfallon4279]

if New York times said it it has to be true

[@crazytrain848]

Cohen comtinues to be proven correct.

[@ClubCovertLondon]

Shame on Roth.