What's the best tank for film developing? And everything else you'll need to get started!

[@paolociccone]

Great video, like always. I just wanted to say that the Paterson tank does not leak at all as long as you cap it in the right way. Place one edge of the cap on the tank, with one hand apply a bit of pressure in the center, with the other hand pull the edge of the cap out a bit while you push down to seal it. If there's excessive air, lift one edge a little bit while you press on the middle to "burp" it. Use this technique and the Paterson tank is absolutely leak free. Cheers!

[@vintagecameradigest]

Yes, someone else mentioned that. I do think the seal on my lids is worn out, though. I use the “burping” technique every time I use these tanks. It works for a minute, then I have to do it again. And again. And again. May be time for me to get a new tank :-)

[@paolociccone]

@@vintagecameradigest well, judging from the staining on your reels it looks like you got a lot of good mileage from that tank 😀. And, yes, over time the lid will become a bit lose and possibly leak. You can buy a set of new lid + funnel for about $10. Cheers!

[@JanneRanta]

For 35mm I start inserting the film into the reel before I put it in the dark bag. Makes it a ton easier. Also, poor in / out time is not that critical for stand developing in 1:100 for example.

[@jackknifepete]

Even more forgiving, a two part developer like Diafine. Handful of minutes in Part A, another Handful in Part B at something close to room temp with water for stop. Eazy pleazy.. and a speed boost !

[@vintagecameradigest]

Excellent suggestion!

[@UncleDansVintageVinyl]

Agreed. If you have a one-hour development time, thirty seconds more or less is trivial.

[@DaniloGiannini-imago]

As usual great video. I have only one suggestion about the teflon spirals of the Paterson or AP systems: they must be absolutely dry before trying to load them - for this reason I regularly give a blow with the hair dryer before start inserting the film - best regards Danilo

[@vintagecameradigest]

You’re absolutely correct. I guess I thought it was a given that the reels should be dry. But, yes, a damp reel can ruin a fun photographic developing experience!

[@UncleDansVintageVinyl]

I use the AP compact reels. They work great. I use the inversion method, and I don't have leak problems. I've never been able to use the metal reels. I learned long ago on what is called a "film apron." The aprons are incredibly easy. I found one on the auction site a few years ago and have used it a few times. It works great.

[@vintagecameradigest]

Ah, yes! My first tank in college was a Kodakraft with the aprons. I do like the AP tank and reels. Glad I picked that up!

[@davidcompton4885]

I completely agree with you that developing (and scanning) my film is as enjoyable as shooting it I use steel system for 35 but AP reel in Paterson tank for 120. Those big tabs on the AP reels are wonderful for the wide, flimsier 120 film.

[@vintagecameradigest]

Couldn’t agree more. Those reels seem to be really great. I’m glad I picked one of these up.

[@gregwardecke]

In the words of Bugs Bunny I feel like a maroon! I’ve used SS reels and tanks for nearly 45 years and cursed like a sailor for nearly 45 years because I try to get the film pinched by the spring rather than how you described. You have helped an old dog learn a new trick! Thanks!

[@joefaracevideos]

This is a fabulous episode. I have to tell you I've processed film since the 70's and never once thought about pour in-pour out times but once you mentioned it I felt like DUH, why did I never think about that. Thanks for the shout out and especially for pronouncing my last name correctly; not everyone does.

[@vintagecameradigest]

Thank YOU for that great photo! I can see why it’s one of your favorites. As for the pour in/pour out stuff, I’d never given it much thought, myself until I started using that UniColor drum with C-41 processing. I think I put maybe 5 35mm reels in the first time, and the pour in took forever. And then the C-41 first developer only has a time of 3:00 or so, and it became problematic. I’m sure I’d get better at it with more use, but it’s worth pointing out, I figured. I do like the UniColor system for saving a ton of chemistry, though. And sometimes, that feature wins out over any of the cons.

[@JamesMartin-vm2zo]

I learned with stainless steel reels and tanks back in the 70's, but have been using Paterson tanks for about 30 years now. The leaking from the top can be prevented if you "burp" the lid after sealing it, like the lid on a piece of Tupperware. It creates a slight negative pressure in the tank and firmly seals it shut. Some folks have problems with the film sticking while loading the reels, but this can be caused high humidity or getting sweaty hands while loading in a dark bag. Loading in a dry area helps a lot, usually a dark closet or any light proof room will work. Also, the plastic reels tend to build-up residue over time so an occasional scrubbing with hot soapy water and a tooth brush helps to keep them clean. Once dry, the film will tend to load with much less resistance. Kudos on your stained brown reels - those have seen a lot of rolls of film to get that way! Just like the staining in a print developer tray, sort of a badge of honor!

[@vintagecameradigest]

Those reels have certainly been around the block a few times, but they’ve never let me down. Interesting you should mention about “burping” the cap. I have tried that since it would seem to solve the issue, or at least minimize it. But my lids must be worn out because it won’t work for my tanks. They will initially work, but after a just a little while I have to do it again. And thanks for bringing up the fact that any of these reels need to be dry to load correctly. Maybe the steel ones won’t give any issue. But the plastic reels absolutely will. Cheers!

[@closerto30]

Thorough, as always. And I mean that as a compliment. Looking forward to watching the rest of this series!

[@vintagecameradigest]

Many thanks! Next one will be up soon!

[@paolociccone]

Great video, like all the other

[@vintagecameradigest]

Much appreciated!

[@311djr]

Another great video, Mr. V. I have accumulated several different types along the way, as we all probably have. I don't like the stainless tanks or spools which I learned on. Didn't like them then or now. I much prefer the Patterson ones. I have one AP Compact tank, but it has a 4x5 insert in it which is what I bought it for. It is marked as 'EC' on bottom. It seems to work well. If made, I would be interested in getting a 35/120 insert for it in the future. One tank I have that is not marked but the swizzle stick is marked 'Yankee Clipper' and is a small thermometer. It works well but it doesn't seal so you cannot invert it. Swizzle stick only. I plan to use it mostly for Stand Developing. And I also have JOBO tanks for 35/120 and 4x5.

[@vintagecameradigest]

The new Compact tank that I bought also has the “EC” mark on the bottom. My guess is that it’s the same tank - I also saw where I could get the 4x5 insert for it. I’ve been using a Paterson 3-reel tank with a MOD54 insert for 4x5 for a few years now. Serves me well. Uses a lot of chemistry, though.

[@TIMWHY2]

Have had all my new chemicals sitting unopened and in a box for a year. All my dark room gear has been sorted and stored in totes and awaiting the day when I develop and print, even bought a new bulb last week. Still sitting on the fence and wondering if scanning wouldn't be easier as well as cost saving. Had so much fun when I had a DR in my apartment but the best room in my house is the pantry w/ a utility sink and door. Not sure my wife would like the dual use pantry? Looking forward to the next video! This one was just what I needed to see, thank you for making it!

[@vintagecameradigest]

You’re welcome! I’m one of the ones who’s going to go the scanning route. Now, I’d absolutely LOVE to have a darkroom again. But the reality of that happening any time soon is rather remote. And, I don’t think using software in the process diminishes it in any way. Before digital cameras were a thing, I’d still scan negatives and edit them in Photoshop. It doesn’t have the wow factor of seeing your image appear on the paper under the watchful eye of the safelight, though. And I gotta say I do miss that.

[@sprout995]

One of my favorite film stocks to shoot. Is ilford XP2 and develop it in HC110 1 + 119 stand for 45 minutes.

[@irvvine]

Great video! Just my 2 cents: AP tank (also sold as Kaiser in some markets!) does not specify the amount of chemistry per reel. It has a different amount for one 35 reel - 375 ml and a different for two reels - 650 ml. This is less than 2x375. This is because of a feature you didn't mention - when agitating with the rotating stick, it automatically shakes the reels up and down (that's why it needs the clip to hold the reels at a specific height on the center tube) and the mechanism that does this is on the bottom of the tube, pushing the reels upwards a bit, making room for an additional 100 ml of chemistry at the bottom below the bottom reel. So it is really 275 ml per reel + additional 100 ml always. This 100ml amount can be decreased to about 25ml by 3d printing a padding disc that will take the otherwise free space at the bottom of the tank, around the mechanism. Second thing is that you can pour out of the AP/Kaiser much faster by just sticking it upside down into the other vessel - it will use the whole circumference of the outlet and vent through the center hole - can be emptied in ~2-4 sec. Unfortunately I didn't find an easy method to fill it faster but I also didn't notice any observable impact of even a 5 sec difference in pour in/pour out times. Some chemistries (e.g. Calbe Chemie C-41 Color Kit) even specify dev times as the time from full contact of the bath to full contact of the next bath so the pour in/pour out times don't matter that much, and that is for the C-41, which should be super sensitive to such differences. I'm sure you can get away with uneven pour times of the chemistry even with B&W developers. Third: you can buy (or 3d print) inserts for installing inside a reel, that decrease the amount of chemistry needed when developing a single 120 reel - it simply takes up free space left when you don't load two 120 rolls per reel.

[@vintagecameradigest]

Thanks for clarifying those points. And I’m an idiot for not seeing the different chem amounts for the 2 reels. I mean, it’s printed right there on the bottom. I actually do like that agitation method, though. Turning and lifting the reels at the same is better for agitation, I’d think. I’m also inclined to believe that pour in/pour out times probably don’t matter a whole bunch on the regular tank systems. But I’ve had issues with that UniColor drum, and I figured if I tested it, might as well do the others just for the sake of knowing. And thanks for the tip on pouring out of the AP tank. I do like that tank and those reels are so nice.

[@jasonlamarking]

My AP tank leaks like a sieve if I try inversion processing with it. Now I use the AP reels in the paterson tank. I only do 120 film so I removed the ball bearings and just push the film on like you did with the Unicolor reels. BTW with the Paterson tanks try to pull the lid off evenly, don't peel it off from one side. Doing that causes the lid to leak more.

[@vintagecameradigest]

Yes, I read many sources that say the AP tanks leak like crazy if inverted. And - spoiler alert - this one does too. Not bad, but enough to make a mess. And I’ll wager that the older the tank lid gets, the more it will leak. I’ll be using the agitation stick next time.

[@nickpalance3622]

7:30 EOS custom functions and film leader ... yeah ... no not all, sadly. I think the EOS 630/600 was the first to offer this, and I remember hearing way back when that you could send a 650 or 620 to an authorized facility for a change to the firmware. I chose the EOS 10s over the Elan(100) for this reason, way back when. I already had an EOS 750 and that offered diddly and squat. I imagine the Rebel (1000) series didn't either, at least not for a few years. Funny thing is that when I want to shoot traditional B&W, I always find myself reaching for a traditional manual camera. Something with a wind lever and rewind crank, an ASA dial instead of ISO, and comes in chrome (even if I have the black version). ;-)

[@vintagecameradigest]

Ah, yes…the EOS 750….I had forgotten about that one and the 850. And you make a good point because I’m not sure about the Rebels, but if I were a betting man, I’d say they didn’t offer it either.

[@HDpackage]

I struggle with double x on Paterson spools. Maybe the steel stuff is a solution.

[@vintagecameradigest]

Been a while since I’ve done anything with double-X. Does it have a thin base? But, to address your point, I do believe the stainless steel reels could handle any film better, since you’re loading it manually and not using any ratcheting device.

[@gianlusc]

Great video. I am a happy user of an Ars Imago Lab Box. Highly recommend for people who feel nervous about loading the reel in the dark.

[@vintagecameradigest]

I have seen those and am intrigued. Seems like a great idea and a modern solution to an older problem

[@keironstoneman6938]

Essential information. I got a paterson tank plus accessories for xmas and am a bit worried about messing it up. Plus i have never used the dark bag i got!

[@vintagecameradigest]

Great Christmas gift! It’s not too difficult. You’ll be up and running in no time, I’m sure!

[@Ybalrid]

BTW the AP tank are identical to the "Universal" tanks by Kaiser FotoTechnik (I wonder which one of those two companies actually make them. The ones I have are made "in the EU" without much more details). The reels are great and it's all very easy to use... but I am *pretty sure* the "oversized film guides" have scratched some of my Delta 3200 film more than once when loading then while pulling them directly from the cartridge.

[@randallstewart1224]

The AP tanks are made by AP. They are commonly rebranded and sold by retailers under other trade names. For example, the "house brand" tanks sold by B&H and Freestyle are both just AP units in a store labelled box.

[@vintagecameradigest]

That’s a good point. I’ll be on the lookout for that. I can see how that would happen.

[@ArtMeripol]

Started developing film in the early 70’s. Did that till the late 80’s when I joined a Southern Lifestyle shelter magazine and shot only chrome for the next 25 years. Still freelance but of course digital for my clients. But recently, like you I decided to break out the old cameras and put them to use. I was so fast with stainless reels in the old days but picked up Patterson recently. I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it but so far they’re quite a challenge. I’m sure being in a changing bag doesn’t help. I might have to look for those easier Ap reels. Good stuff here and thank you. Trying to place your accent. At first I thought Fort Worth but then decided Georgia. Am I close?

[@vintagecameradigest]

BINGO! Georgia it is :-)) Good work! As for the different tanks, the more you use them the easier it gets - obviously. I also agree that the changing bag is a whole different vibe that loading the tank in a darkroom. It’s my least favorite part of any of this. But, I’ll say that the AP reels are super easy. One commenter did say that the oversized film guides have led to scratches on their film, so that might be a thing. I’ve processed a roll of 120 in it and didn’t notice any. But I’ll be aware of it. Seems like a pretty good system, though.

[@mhc2b]

Thank you for some very indispensable information.

[@vintagecameradigest]

My pleasure, as always :-) Thanks for watching!

[@gabeatv]

Great video. A bit surprised you didn't include the JOBO tanks/system, though. Seems very popular (and it's what I use).

[@vintagecameradigest]

Short answer is “I don’t have one” :-) If I did have a JOBO system, I’d use it 100% of the time. I’ve used them before in different jobs, and the results have always been very consistent. I did mention the JOBO system, but the prices aren’t what I’d consider attractive to someone just deciding to process their own film. But, I’ll agree - it’s top-tier.

[@gabeatv]

@ oops! I missed the mention of it. Thanks for the response. Looking forward to the rest of the series!

[@randallstewart1224]

I started developing film in 1958. My first tank was a plastic Yankee, which shares the same basic design and use of cheap, hard plastic (breakable) construction as the Paterson tanks, but only cost me $4.95. After trying various alternatives over the years, I have settled on stainless steel tanks and reels for B&W, particularly Nikor tanks with plastic tops, which do not leak like their earlier steel fitted tops. The earlier (1950-60s) Nikor reels are far better made than the thin-wire Japanese generic reels common since the 1980s; much easier to load and to not distort/bend. For color, I use the same Unicolor Film Drum and rotator base he shows in the video. While color processing is designed for continuous agitation, B&W is not, thus the two separate tank systems. I've never had a fill time issue with the Unicolor of the type he speculates on in the video. I have commonly processed 6 - 35mm or 3 - 120 rolls with absolutely no density variation issues, densitometer checked. I suspect that he is getting slow fill times because he is pouring directly on top of the light baffle in the center of the lid, rather than directly into the gap between the centerpiece and the rim. A couple of notes on the Unicolor Film Drum for any who might consider buying one (necessarily used of course). (1) The drum is isolated. Tis means that once it is warmed with a hot pre-wash, it holds the color process temperature without the bulk and mess of a hot water bath system like the Jobo. I use mine for both E-6 and C-41 processing with no issues. (2) The weakest part of the Unicolor drum system is the seal on the piston, which determines the tank volume or number of reels to be loaded at one time. If it is abused, it can start leaking, not enough to fail, but it can cause a mess. I pre-wet mine before inserting it into the tank, which seems to avoid any problems. (3) In the only "what were they thinking" aspect of the design of Unicolor film tanks and drums, they used exactly the same reel dimensions for the reels used in the tanks (styled like the AP) and in their unique film drum. However, there is a critical difference between the two types of such reels. The drum reels each have their own light tight center core, each reel interlocking with the next to make the drum light tight without any additional center tube (unlike a Paterson, for example). The Unicolor tanks are light tight on their own, so their reels do not require that light tight center core. Either type of reel works fine in the tanks, but if you use the tank reels in a drum, you can get light leaks. The drum reels can be spotted by their black center core, whereas the tank reels are all white. Overall, the Unicolor processing equipment was clever in design and built to a higher standard of quality than can be purchased new today. Contra the video, Unicolor is not gone, although it does not produce this equipment any longer. It started the DIY color processing kit age in the 1970s, and it still is probably the largest manufacturer of such processing kits today, selling chemistry under its own brand, as well as being rebranded and sold by nearly all the major US retailers as their own product (ex., Freestyle/Arista).

[@vintagecameradigest]

Excellent, excellent info here. When pouring in I do try to avoid pouring directly on the center baffle and at least try to aim for that gap. What it comes down to, I’m sure, is lack of experience and practice with the tank. I’ve only owned it for a couple of years. I do, however, process black and white in the UniColor drum - and have processed it in a JOBO system in the past. Many thanks for pointing out the differences in the tank reels v the drum reels!

[@Ybalrid]

interested to see your point of view on this! I am a recent convert to the usage of the JOBO 1500 series of tank. Everything that is good about plastic tanks, with the economy of developer volume similar to stainless steel ones. (Not made of money so I do not have a JOBO processor, I just use a 1502 tank with 2 reels by hand inversion)

[@vintagecameradigest]

I think the JOBO tank is a great system. It really shines when you combine it with the processor. But, like you, I don’t have the money to drop on one of those, so I’m with you on that. If the system you’re using works for you and gives you consistent results, I can’t think of anything negative about it.

[@jackknifepete]

Development continues until stopped by the stop bath. Pour times don't matter if you start your next pour at the prescribed time and in the same way. Think of a commercial dip and dunk machine. The film rack is lifted out of the developer tank and carried over into the stop tank. The immersion rate is the same for both tanks, so the absolute time film is exposed to developer is always the same. So in practice, dump the developer maybe 20-30 seconds before time, and be ready to start pouring your stop on the mark. This is where a Gralab 300 shows it's value. To restate the matter in life terms, things continue to develop, until stopped

[@vintagecameradigest]

Excellent points. The timer on the app I use always adds 10 secs to the overall time to begin with to accommodate the pour. I just make sure I start the pour out before the overall time is up. Thanks for the great comment!

[@ka4estvo]

Soviet dev tanks can be quite nice too, if a bit fiddly at first. Very fine film (aerial photography) doesn't go into patterson tanks, it kinks abd bends, but works great with those bakelite soviet ones. The main problem is the lids are not secured so you can only spin the reels.

[@vintagecameradigest]

Very cool! I’ve not considered those. Thanks for the tip!

[@Jennifer_Prentice]

I actually own the exact same AP model you have.. I own the exact same Patterson tank and spools and I have a full Jobo tank system. I can say that both the Patterson and AP load fine but the current Jobo reals I have suck and 35mm film often binds on the spool and I have to back off some of the film and then start going forward again .. I hardly even use the Jobo system and just dev a couple of rolls at a time between the AP and Patterson. Also I am interested to see what chems you use.. I am not a huge black and white shooter but I do have plans on getting into Large Format and ill be probably shooting mostly black and white so I need to get more used to that lol. So far I have just used the Cinestil Mono Bath system and its worked pretty good so far.. I would like to learn about some other chems and learn to do single use batches of develop chems and reuse the fixer . I look forward to seeing the next video .

[@vintagecameradigest]

Interesting about the JOBO reels. It’s been over 20 years since I’ve used any JOBO stuff. But I do remember liking that system a lot. As for the chems, I haven’t tried the Monobath, but it seems to be a decent option. Also, very cool that you’re looking into LF. I know you’d enjoy that!