What's The Problem With The Minimum Wage?

[@GB-sh9st]

You gonna cover the college protests? this ish is boring; you even called it boring lol Get to the front of the culture war or is it too Jewish for you?

[@ShortFatOtaku]

I'll do whatever I want. If you don't like it, stop watching me.

[@thefantasticmrlewis1358]

@@ShortFatOtaku >Valid Criticism >"Erm if you don't like it, don't watch. bro.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

@user-tz9wk2rj2d nope. i generally think the truckers were correct, and the government overstepped.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

@@thefantasticmrlewis1358 what is the valid criticism? "i think this topic is boring" ok, sure, not everybody will like every topic. "cover the college protests. get to the front of the culture war, or is it too jewish for you?" yeah THIS is when you can leave my channel. i don't want people like this watching me. go away, i do not create content for you.

[@Shafterr]

@@ShortFatOtakuL response

[@nunyabizness6687]

The real minimum wage is 0$. A lot of fast food joints, especially in California are phasing out cashiers for automated kiosks since they're upping the minimum wage. Many businesses were planning on doing this already, but over the span of years, not months.

[@nonyabisness6306]

good? that's how technological progress works. it's the reason phone operators and elevator operators used to be a thing. the new minimum wage job will just be something else.

[@Zetact_]

Yeah, just this week there are stories about how CA raising the minimum wage to $20 for food service workers are just leading to layoffs or at BEST workers getting their hours cut. On top of the obvious increase of prices at restaurants. Literally nobody benefits, except for the crooked politicians who can virtue signal off of it.

[@nickvanachthoven7252]

@@nonyabisness6306 yes, deliveroo drivers. more competition for even lower skilled jobs.

[@christophekeating21]

​@@nonyabisness6306something else that still won't pay rent anywhere legal

[@nonyabisness6306]

@@christophekeating21 thats baseless.

[@alexanderrahl7034]

Last year, I was making about what I make now. About 27 an hour. And was looking at houses In a state 1000 miles away (about 2,000km for you inferiors) These houses were around 100k each, give or take 20k. And I needed about 16 - 20k as a down payment to buy one. I'm 30 years old this year. I told myself "I'll be able to afford that down payment, plus the move, by the end of next year." Now it's halfway through this year, and the houses I'm looking at are all 120k - 180k. All the houses at my previous price range are either condemned or on auction. Now I won't be able to afford the down payment until _next_ year at this rate. But with the fallout from the election, I don't think I'm going to have much luck. Looking back, my whole life has felt like this. Chasing my future, shrinking it's scope, and increasing how much I make. But always just out of reach. Meanwhile the minimum wage and inflation keeps going up. The wage I make now was all I needed to live, back when I was 20. And now I'm saying the same things at 30 that I said then.

[@Planeet-Long]

I know a Chinese chef who moved to the Netherlands and within 2 years he was able to buy a home for him and his family. Meanwhile I am unable to purchase a house despite living here for 3 decades.

[@evanhuizenga8626]

I've doubled my wage in the last 5 years, too bad housing prices have doubled along with it, so I might as well be making the $10/hr I was making back then for the purposes of buying a house.

[@nonyabisness6306]

1609,34 km actually.

[@MrPlainsflyer]

Same brother. It feels like I've been able to stay one jump ahead of minimum wage and purveyors for about 10 years now

[@alexanderrahl7034]

@@nonyabisness6306 fair enough. 👌🤣

[@ChillyJack]

"Here's a bunch of people who lost their job because of the minimum wage increase." "We can't find any evidence that increasing minimum wage causes harm though."

[@XavianBrightly]

I'm on your side here. I think minimum wage is adverse to the economy at worst and does nothing at best. However I will note that anecdotes aren't evidence. That story being relevant relies on 1:that not being an isolated or rare incident and 2:the owner telling the truth or even being correct about the the cause of the business going under.

[@brianlinden3042]

@@XavianBrightly Anecdotes are absolutely evidence. I hate that saying. They may not be PROOF, but they're absolutely evidence.

[@supernova743]

​@XavianBrightly anecdotes are evidence. Theyre lacking context. When we had stories of vaccine injury from covid 19 we were shown we were misled on how rare vaccine injuries was. We couldnt tell now dangerous vaccines were and therefore couldnt make accurate decisions on getting them or not. However the ancedotes were very helpful in determining we were lied to.

[@Under_the_Iceberg]

@@XavianBrightly I basically agree that raising minimum wage ranges from ineffective to detrimental. It doesn't help that the vast majority of people already earn almost exactly the amount that minimum wage is raised to so we get no raise but companies will squeeze more productivity out of us to make up the difference for the handful of people they needed to give a raise. I'll just note that when looking at the wide-picture, churn is natural and it's basically impossible to parse out a difference in churn caused by minimum wage increases compared to the natural ebb and flow of the market. Something a lot of people also miss is that undocumented immigrants paid under the table don't need to make a minimum wage. There is a reason you're finding more and more "fresh off the boat" immigrants working entry level retail and fast food these days. I don't think it's a coincidence that claims of "racism!" when people express concern about undocumented immigrants has become a societal response. Wealthy people can pay a lot less to influence society like this than they'd have to pay their natural citizens.

[@user-Kova15]

Corporate greed does that

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

“Power imbalance” I absolutely hate that talking point, and they use it with everything, jobs, relationships and everything else under the sun.

[@jonahc2807]

In other words "IT'S NOT FAIR"

[@GameFuMaster]

the problem is, they turn everything into a catchall, e.g. nazi, bigot

[@RHLW]

Just cos you dont like it doesnt make it untrue.

[@nonyabisness6306]

??? literally the reason unions where invented. if you don't have a counter-argument just say so.

[@bearrington2024]

But I see it happening in my life. People's groceries + rent + utilities is already hitting 80%+ of their earnings. When you work all day to just literally survive there is no "just get more marketable skills" which is a statement I have only heard people born rich use. Workers real wages (amount earned v cost of goods) has not risen in the US in like 60 years, while GDP and stocks have risen a lot in that same time frame. Something is broken, I dont have the answer, but something in the way the US economy works is broken. People every year are getting closer to starvation wages but "number bigger" on the corporate side so nothing is done. Our government has redefined homelessness, unemployed, and depression/recession multiple times in my lifetime to make the problem seem better than it is.

[@atpyro7920]

the minimum wage isn’t too low, the minimum cost of living is too damn high.

[@lainiwakura1776]

Why not both?

[@Galvvy]

Because when inflation devalues currency increasing the amount in the system means the wage doesn't actually change, just the perception of earning more. Then saved money is worth less, thereby hurting people who are fiscally responsible.

[@MidwestArtMan]

And I believe a lot of that is from excessive government regulation. You need a license, permit, or certification to do anything these days.

[@pekka405]

I do believe it is caused by financial institutes "pricing in" the inflation for rent and foodstuffs etc but the lower echelon salaries arent keeping up due to MSV and higher echelons securing their bases first...

[@DrachonaTheWolf]

It's worth pointing out that a lot of people who are arguing for an increase in the minimum wage think that the "minimum cost of living" includes 15 streaming services, drugs, new iPhones, and food delivery.

[@taptiotrevizo9415]

"Power imbalance" mfs when they realize every organization or structure in human history has had power imbalances because that what hierarchy are!

[@endorsedbryce]

Yes but it's at the interest of anyone not at the top of the hierarchy. (Most people) To seek out ways to reduce that gap between the highest and lowest levels of that hierarchy. The ever-increasing wealth gap in corporate America is a fundamental failure of the American people to do this.

[@michaelwhittaker3355]

@@endorsedbryce that’s a funny way of saying you just want to force market inefficiencies that benefit you but I guess misleading rhetoric is about all those minimum wage earners with marketing degrees can do

[@endorsedbryce]

@@michaelwhittaker3355 Right, cuz trillions of dollars being poured into the hands of 1% of the population, so they can buy their super yats, 15th vacation home and Lobby the government for more policies that only benefit themselves is "efficient". Get out of here with that nonsense.

[@RobzdaBlade]

​@@michaelwhittaker3355 I'm no side here; you guys look at the black and white of things; the bottom line is... We're all suppose to be Americans (I'm Canadian, but the only difference here is some of us think we're French?) here. Capital itself will not grow unless we manufacture and use that time. Man... It's insane to me, how I built all those towers in Toronto; and it's how these whippy little nerds are relishing and doing the trading and renting with them. You guys will never carry the guilt and burden someone like me has. Thinking I was doing the right thing working for pennies. These companies didn't even report my hours and years of labor to HR or Taxes... Literally got me trapped here with hardly any proof of my merit but a few photos and old prints of the engineering drawings of the high rises I foremaned...

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@michaelwhittaker3355 "that’s a funny way of saying you just want to force market inefficiencies that benefit you" You don't? Are you in it for yourself or someone else?

[@cerdon4076]

I think rather than increasing the minimum wage, we should instead try to reduce the minimium cost of living. The housing market continues to beat inflation year after year for decades. 7.50 an hour wouldn't be bad if everyone could rent a room for less than a 1000 dollars each month. While other products and services have gotten more expensive, none to the extent of housing.

[@henrylicious]

That would mean discontinuing relentless money printing.

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

​@@henrylicious exactly.

[@Metaknight145]

Nothing can be done about it. Boomers treat houses as an investment and will never allow prices to stabilize or the bubble to pop. They'll vote to bankrupt the country with government bailouts before they allow a single house to fall one cent in value. And there isn't a single law protecting a local population from foreign actors, even from a different country, buying up and monopolizing property. To say nothing of uncontrolled immigration. More people=more expensive homes and lower value labor is. And immigration will never be fixed because it's in corporations' best interest that there's more of a supply of labor. System is fucked beyond repair.

[@evanhuizenga8626]

Reducing the cost of living requires an understanding of economics and lots of work, long-term investment, etc, why do that when you can just make businesses do all the work? It also scares government people who think it will reduce their income tax revenue. And they may be right, thanks to our progressive income tax system, one person working for $24/hr will pay more income tax than 2 people working for $12/hr. Because everything a single filer earns above $40k a year is taxed at double the rate of everything under it. One person earning $60k a year will pay as much income tax as two people earning $40k a year, so why does the government care if one of those people loses their job and the other gets bumped up?

[@Wulfen73]

Because property costs affect everything as well, if the cost of floorspace goes up the product taking up that space has to go up as well

[@VespoLiveGaming]

Worse yet... raising the minimum wage devalues the wages of everyone above the new minimum who are not getting a raise.

[@deriznohappehquite]

Over a long time, it causes inflation and balances itself out.

[@WhiterThanAginger]

Agreed, no one ever talks about the squeezing and reduction of the middle class.

[@VespoLiveGaming]

@@WhiterThanAginger yes. Imagine you've worked up to an assistant manager making $16/hr over the course of two years after starting at minimum. Now everyone less experienced than you and all the new hires make almost as much as you, and there's no way the boss can afford to give you (or the Sr manager either) a proportional raise. Now inflation has also made your $16/hr worth about the same as someone barely above minimum wage. Where's the equity?

[@SwiftSwrd]

It's indirect redistribution in much the same way as inflating the money supply.

[@MrNickPresley]

See, that’s what I have told people in the past when they kept bringing up raising minimum wage. Imagine that you went to a school to get specialized training to get a higher wage, only to find out that an unskilled entry level position now pays more than you make. What incentive is there to do what you do now? What incentive is there for skilled labor when you can just flip burgers?

[@Tzion]

It's not libertarian cope to say that government shouldn't subsidize negative-priced goods. If something has a negative price, that means people would only accept it if you paid them, which means it's a burden rather than a benefit. To then tax those people and impose the burden anyway is, at the very least, ethically questionable.

[@TheWiggum123]

He played the “that which is seen vs that which is unseen” myth, good for product A doesn’t mean good from product B,C,D etc. production opportunity is taken away from those products.

[@Tzion]

@@TheWiggum123 The boy needs Hazlitt.

[@Volkbrecht]

In the end the problem is a communal one: the economy has a lowest price level for human workforce, but the human workforce has a lowest price level for staying alive. If the latter is higher than the former, politics need to intervene or people die. The way to do that is usually taxation and redistribution to the needy. But in cases where services are essential to the community, there is nothing really wrong with subsidies on the product side.

[@Tzion]

@@Volkbrecht That's not an example of a negative-priced good. The typical targets of welfare (food, housing, education) are all positively priced, which is WHY the poor can't afford them. If food were negatively-priced, you'd literally be paid by the grocery store to take it off their hands. Negative-priced goods are often associated with positive-priced services, such as trash and waste disposal/recycling. In those cases, there is an argument to made for collective provision of the service (although in the case of garbage pickup both private and public solutions exist in various jurisdictions). But there are plenty of negative-priced goods and services where there is no in-demand counterpart. Many of these are ineffective regulations, such as minimum pricing on milk, the Jones Act, or the TSA. In these cases, only harm (real or economic) can result from "providing" these goods and services. The fact that the laws creating these regulations were presumably passed with good intentions is irrelevant. It would be authoritarian cope to say that they have to exist.

[@Volkbrecht]

@@Tzion It seems that I misunderstood your initial point, but maybe that's because it's a non-starter. Negatively priced goods or services don't exist at end consumer level. The discussion in the video was about the price of human labour, and for this one it absolutely makes sense to burden society with the cost for subsidizing even negative amounts. Because we bear these costs anyway, one way or another, so it's a good idea to at least channel them in the least harmful way possible.

[@Mikoshi700]

If pro labor types were a little more economically literate, they would attack supply side (migration). But the same people who want higher minimum wage, also want higher migration. It's wild. Force a labor shortage and businesses will pay obscene wages to get workers. We saw that in 2020/2021. They even let people work from home, because they had no control in a labor shortage market.

[@J-Anon-]

IIRC leftists like Bernie Sanders used to understand how increasing supply of unskilled labor with illegal immigration depresses wages.

[@abcdef-ms9mb]

This actually used to be the case for a pretty long time. Socialist types were against migration because despite their silly ideology they still retained some basic economic literacy and understood that migration lead to the devaluation of wages. Nowadays they don't really care about the workers anymore, so I suppose that explains that.

[@Xplora213]

They aren’t smart people. They have very little life experience as well. Just like Marx they are simply unable to accept that the world is not nice and they are obliged to participate. The hypocrisy is the evidence.

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

Well you see, it's because they're such nice people that they just want to help everyone while also simultaneously reducing all their harm so that we can have a global hug box utopia that everyone would totally be down with, with no cultural friction or ideological or religious disagreement or violent misunderstandings whatsoever. And if you don't want THAT, then well... you're evil. It's like the solution to war being "just outlaw war, bro", "what you mean you don't want to outlaw war, bro? That must mean you like war, bro! You're evil, brah!"

[@AkiRa22084]

Half of those vectors, like reduced training, are a disaster for society as a whole.

[@mage3690]

Yeah, reduced training, hiring more skilled workers, and reducing hours but demanding employees do the same work are just asking for the worst kind of labor market I can imagine. The former two vectors create the "must have a bachelor's degree and 15 years of experience, minimum wage" jobs, and the latter vector is just the definition of a toxic workplace environment. Which, now that I think about it, is exactly the labor market we have (in some places for some industries). I'd like to check the timeline on those studies -- it sounds like all the medium- and high-evidence vectors are simply shorter-term solutions, while the low-evidence vectors may simply be long-term solutions.

[@AkiRa22084]

@@mage3690 Exactly.

[@AkiRa22084]

@@MidlifeCrisisJoe Both caused by leftist thinking.

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

Everything is a little disaster and then all of those combine into a critical mass leading to a big disaster that gets blown over by the media

[@St0rmTheGates]

Libertarians don't want absolutely no interference, they want the smallest amount of interference possible without letting companies take actions that infringe on the rights of others.

[@ioannisstrategos221]

This. There needs to be a balance, but people shouldn't be able to cave in Corporations because they're upset at them, and Corporations shouldn't be able to violate people's rights. Both need each other, simple as that.

[@giin97]

Yeah, no interference is anarchism.

[@IchNachtLiebe]

For sure. This is why the whole "don't you want roads?" retort is so dumb. Roads are fine, firefighters are fine. Billions of dollars for foreign interference, silly research programs, $50,000 single toilet installs on military bases, etc are not fine.

[@Joker22593]

Once you realize the government is a corporation, everything starts to make sense.

[@abcdef-ms9mb]

@@Joker22593 It is a monopoly megacorporation, you own a single stock out of millions, and can't purchase more. The power it has over you is essentially limitless, the power you have over it is near-zero.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

I memba when Ontario announced hiking the wage from $11.50 to $14 and thinking "Hwelp, there goes the neighbourhood" - Ed. Dave

[@mikesmith542]

It will be 17.20 come October. I'm sure the cost of goods won't go up . . .

[@twiggledy5547]

The lowest performing McD's Employees got all but bumped off the shift roster after Washington passed $15 years ago. See you next tuesday, Jack

[@bladeRoller]

Something I think a lot of people don't realize when it comes to this discussion of minimum wage versus inflation, is the reason we need to raise minimum wage primarily isn't because goods and services become too expensive for those who are on a minimum wage, but because housing and in tandem, rent, arbitrarily raise when minimum wage goes up. The cost of providing utilities and maintenance and property tax do not actually raise very much at all when minimum wage goes up. But the corporations who own large residential areas of apartment buildings and complexes do know that the common worker now has a pay increase. And so they whenever possible affix a new standard to the cost of renting. This means anytime the common minimum wage employee who probably does not own their own home especially due to the housing crisis, sees a pay increase, the percentage of their costs that is shelter is lower. It is with that knowledge that property owners then try to establish a new standard of rent cost so that they can profit even further and grow the margin of profit versus cost. Goods and services of course go up when minimum wage goes up, but minimum wage tends to only go up because the cost of shelter rises to meet minimum wage when it has no reason to do so beyond the greed of the wealthy. A simple solution to the inflation versus minimum wage increase is to limit the profit margins of renting. Ofcourse depending on how that's employed there will be loopholes, but unless we restrict the profit of rent, or reduce the entry cost into home ownership drastically to compete the cost of rent, inflation and thus, minimum wage will continue to sky rocket. Some anecdotal evidence being a property renting company called cogir or starlight, once buying a building in Toronto tried to illegally skyrocket the price of current renters rent to nearly double their established rates. That same company also purchased the building I used to live at, and spent a lot of money making improvements and trying to evict people so that they could charge a lot more for the units there. I've spoken to many people who rent from apartment buildings, and their story's are all similar. And I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to charge more rent for a nicer property, I'm saying we should have limits on the profit percentages of simply owning property. You're not providing anything of value to society, you just got there first. (Relevant to the profit vs cost of maintaining and managing those properties )And because of our current housing climate, no one can compete with you.

[@Nukestarmaster]

I remember that too, I went from making 11.75 to 14.00 at my part time job. Never had a raise feel so bad as the small .25 cent raise I had _earned_ got deleted.

[@MultiKeto]

@@mikesmith542 most likely it wont there is no really link between inflation and minimum wage.... but it will cost jobs

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Minimum Wage, as Thomas Sowell so succulently pointed out, is among the most misguided and flawed economic ideas in human history. Dictating "You will pay employees this much regardless of the actual value of the work being performed" doesn't actually increase the value of the jobs people take, it just enforces a bunch of additional costs and inflation upon everyone in the economy. Examples of why this is runs a long list: 1. Unproductive employees get fired because they are not producing output equal or greater than their cost (no business or person can survive consuming more than they produce without someone else paying for it) 2. Productive employees have their work hours cut (and more work heaped upon them due to all the unproductive employees getting fired) to keep labor costs down 3. New employees are not hired, limiting the growth and productivity of the company, and preventing more people from being able to get an income at all 4. The business often combines fewer workers and work hours with passing those higher labor costs onto the consumers (which often include their own employees who shop at their establishment) through higher prices to keep afloat Et cetera, et cetera

[@abcdef-ms9mb]

...and those higher prices then affect other people in the economy, making the overall cost of living rise. Alongside the eternally idiotic keynesian inflationary standard, this makes sure that people lose purchasing power all the time, and the wage bumps only catch up to costs of living before those go up again. It's just a vicious cycle of screwing people over.

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

I like how you wrote "succulently" instead of "succinctly" or "sufficiently"

[@alanstringer.]

@@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin I'm a grammar nazi and a stickler for proper writing. I'd say "succulently" not only works but adds a little zazz to the sentence and I agree with it.

[@wolfetteplays8894]

nah, that is just corporate propaganda meant to make you complacent with slavery.

[@ShadyDoorags]

17:24 "This shows that, as an employer, I value time over money." In your example, you were paying someone more for taking up more time. If you valued time over money, you'd pay them more for saving time, not using it. I think a conclusion with better diction would be to say that in the example, you value time over efficiency, competency or the product itself.

[@AJadedLizard]

Yeah, I was confused by that. "You did a rushed job and got done faster, so I'll pay you less for it." What?

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

He doesn't WANT to pay less for a faster job, but "I pay you less" because he has to pay less according to contract. Make sense? I feel like I'm explaining canadian-isms over here. The way canadians talk.

[@99Bobson]

I fucking hate Power Dynamics, or Oppressor-Oppressed shit so much at this point, it's unreal

[@Generik97]

Minimum wage is a Band-Aid solution to inflation. If the government didn't devalue currency by increasing the money supply then there would be little or no need for minimum wage.

[@nonyabisness6306]

it's a band-aid to companies trying to maximise stockholder returns at the cost of employee wages.

[@Generik97]

@@nonyabisness6306 Communist gobbledygook.

[@mountbara]

Interesting that government controls both and does a bad job on each

[@ExPwner]

Still is no need for it

[@ExPwner]

@@nonyabisness6306profits are not at the expense of employees

[@TheHylianJuggalo]

The running theory is that, if a minimum didn't exist, all employers would never pay anyone The reality is.... 1 - if that were attempted, those businesses would fucking die because everyone would go "fuck you, I'll work elsewhere." 2 - In addition, living arrangements with friends and family play a massive unseen role - if I'm temporarily staying somewhere for 5 months, or living permanently with 3 other incomes, the amount of money I need (let alone want) will be massively different. 3 - Having a minimum puts a permanent price hike on every last good or service, because in order to remain solvent, (profit) the price of everything must, at least, match this baseline - it's the equivalent of cutting the bottom rungs off a ladder. 4 - now that you have a labor price codified into law, there is eternally less incentive to increase wages, because "we're not doing anything illegal", snuffing out ANY individual worker negotiating withe the force of the state cutting off any attempts.

[@iansantiago6526]

I'm guessing this is the Libertarian stance on the matter which I would agree with. Anytime the government intervenes with something it just puts a bar/minimum, it never actually does good. Two people coming to an agreement will always be better than a state coming to an agreement with everyone, but of course for that to work everyone would need great work ethics and some basic economic literacy, otherwise you'd get the mining city problem of employers scamming laborers with "mine money" which is worthless.

[@ExPwner]

@@iansantiago6526your scenario of worthless “mining money” is pure fiction.

[@nonyabisness6306]

1. read up on labor conditions during industrialisation. 2. ??? okay. housing prices are increasing steadily. 3. profit margins are increasing, not being stable or decreasing. the obvious solution is to retard profits and not just wages. 4. no? the same factors you claim would naturally regulate the wages would still apply.

[@iansantiago6526]

@@ExPwner Dude these type of comments have to stop. Seriously the only reason Libertarians never get popularity is because of this exact reason. Someone says something that may be wrong(which by the way I'm very VERY sure this literally happened in history but ok) and then the 300 IQ libertarians just goes "hAhA yOuRe rEtArDeD!!" Dude nobody is going to subscribe to your ideology if you keep doing stupid shit like this. Either educate people or don't talk at all, you're actively harming the movement. From your point of view of course I'm wrong because of XYZ reason, but from MY point of view I just got called a retard with zero context, information or even a fucking CLUE as to where I'm wrong. Be objective for a second see just how fucking RETARDED you sound right now. For all I know you could be spewing bullshit and I'll just think all Libertarians are pseudo intellectuals who don't give a shit about normies. This is why the socialists and commies are infesting every academic source right now, *they actually bother explaining their rethoric*. Yeah it's objectively terrible rethoric but they still give reasonable justifications, and their ideas are simpler than most you don't really have to explain them in detail. Here's what I'd reply to your comment: Why is it pure fiction? The employeer can pay the employee anything as long as both parties agree, that's how a free market works right? Otherwise crypto wouldn't even exist because it's not "real money" anything can be money if society or a group decides it is money. See what I mean? Yeah I might be wrong for XYZ reason, but you never bothered explaining, so I can just justify my answer in whatever way I see fit. Of course I'd rather be educated on the manor instead of resorting to petty rethoric... If you honestly care about your ideology, please explain.

[@TheHylianJuggalo]

@nonyabisness6306 1 laws saying "you must pay people" vs "you must pay people x amount" are totally different. The former came first, and is enough to ensure this - the "how much pay" law isn't what ensures you get paid, it's the "pay them" law that does that. 2 - if you live in a 1,000/mo building by yourself, you need 1,000 If you live in a 3000/mo building with 5 other people, each of you (equally) need 600 NOW consider your relationship with those 5 people - are they your immediate family? Does one make the majority of the money? Is someone offering to pay items A,b,c, if you pay for D,E,F? LIVING CONDITION matters more than outright cost I will finish the other two responses later. For now, I need to get back to to work to get paid in the wage I personally negotiated.

[@AnnoyedDragon]

The government could try not destroying the value of money over time, therefore negating the need for perpetual wage increases. Big ask I know.

[@thenew4559]

So long as governments and centralized banking exist, this will never happen, unfortunately. The economy is run on debt and inflation.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

We had the gold standard, the line on the graph stayed pretty flat. After we got off that standard 'line go up'

[@AnnoyedDragon]

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz "line go up" isn't necessarily a good thing.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

@@AnnoyedDragon I'm very well aware that inflation going up isnt good. Next thing you'll tell me is starving is bad and wet socks make one miserable.

[@MrHeavy466]

@@AnnoyedDragon Nonsense. Look at the US debt: the line goes up so high, we don't even use rockets to go to the moon anymore.

[@dy031101]

I have been wondering if Progs' constant call for raising minimum wage is just them selling a solution for problems their beloved policies created.

[@henrylicious]

Always was.

[@Justmonika6969]

That's....exactly what it is. They are economically illiterate people who think raising the minimum wage will magically fix everything and if it doesn't, it's those greedy business owners fault aka they're idiots who double down when their policy blows up in their face.

[@nonyabisness6306]

it's a fake talking point for both sides tbh. minimum wage is good, rasing it won't solve all issues, leaving it won't destroy "muh free market"

[@shoup2452]

@@nonyabisness6306Nah minimum wage is bad, if you want to increase the living standards of lower income people then just expand tax credits.

[@sol-hunter2332]

And you notice how it's never enough. In a few years down the road if nothing changes, there will be renewed demands for a wage increase.

[@Livesinyourwalls]

I think your analysis that wage/salary positions exist only to benefit the lowest-skilled workers is incomplete. Anyone who has worked in one knows that the amount of actual work can vary widely. The employer doesn't want to be forced into a situation where they must pay excessively for a job at a critical moment; thus, they are willing to absorb the cost of an employee's downtime. Wage/salary work is like an options contract on the employee's labor, where the employee is the option seller and the employer is the option buyer. Nicholas Nassim Taleb covers this angle in his book, Antifragile.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Interesting point

[@Planeet-Long]

Scandinavia, Switzerland, and Austria are all successful places without a minimum wage. We know that you can have a functioning modern and developed society without a government imposed minimum wage. Europe is especially crazy with forcing minimum wages, America is not far behind.

[@nonyabisness6306]

skandinavia is 3 seperate countries. all countries listed are fairly small, which changes the economics. some of these have large amount of natural ressources, tourism or in the case of the swiss, banks. funny how you don't mention the countries that are successfull and have minimum wages.

[@10thletter40]

They are bringing up countries without it because the minimum wage is the status quo. ​@@nonyabisness6306 Clearly you, and nobody who believes contrary to the poster of the comment, is going to need proof on why minimum wage is either good or works. So why would they bring that up in a comment trying to convince you that minimum wage is unnecessary? In fact, that should actually be on YOU as a retort if you truly found their argument lacking. Also, I think your argument should have mostly stayed at the countries being small. There are plenty of U.S. states with high tourism, natural resources, that are small, or have locations of relatively high capital to deal with.

[@lefoix4629]

Germany has quite a high minimum wage and it works well.

[@bort6414]

​@@nonyabisness6306Whataboutism fallacy, selection bias fallacy. The existence of a successful nation without a minimum wage means that the success of other nations has zero correlation with their minimum wages.

[@keithfilibeck2390]

low amount of immigration, simple as, lets flood them with Refugee's and see how it pans out in 10 years, oh but the rich people in Switzerland will make sure that THEY don't get Refugee's, we will get them, and France and London, as always.

[@-obamium5320]

The issue with minimum wage is that people then claim that it “isn’t a livable wage” and they try raising it again, “livable ” being a definition that always changes. Minimum wage is just constant goalpost moving, the actual goal is to keep increasing it as high as possible. There’s a reason why getting rid of or lowering minimum wage is unpopular

[@nonyabisness6306]

claim? you can easily calculate what a livable wage must be in any given area. either the math checks out or it doesn't. the principle itself is valid.

[@AttacMage]

​@@nonyabisness6306it shouldn't be the argument in the first place.

[@chavaspada]

​@@AttacMagewhy not?

[@Fernybun]

@@nonyabisness6306 you can calculate what a "livable" (i guess vagabonds and vagrants are undead) wage must be in any area sure, the issue then would be that trying to have a country-wide minimum wage would be absolutely retarded as it would absolutely have to be the highest "livable" wage from all the areas that encompass the country, thus it would be far more beneficial for there to not be a minimum at all and rather each area decides with their companiesand workers and negotiate for their wage rather than to depend of laws that didn't had them in mind for it at all.

[@AttacMage]

@@chavaspada I don't talk to Messians, sorry.

[@MyRkAcc]

"small amounts of evidence for automation" Meanwhile see self checkout and other automations all over. What was once 6+ workers in the nearest McDonald's, now it's 2-3 per shift

[@nonyabisness6306]

and when they introduced atm's the amount of bank tellers per bank went down. which lead to more banks opening, which increased the total amount of tellers employed.

[@MyRkAcc]

@@nonyabisness6306 maybe you feel like that because of the ease of not needing to use the banks as much, but at least in the US the number of banks (buildings) decreased by like 30-40% since the 2000s

[@nonyabisness6306]

@@MyRkAcc that's actually a recent development. the number doubled from around 300k in the us to 600k. decline started around 2010 as online-banking and interacting with tellers via webcam became for frequent. the total number of Banks decreased as well, market consolidation. the basic principle still stands though. Automation does not inherently cost jobs, it just allows people to work in different areas.

[@flatterkatz]

thing is, automation happens whether there's minimum wage or not. As long as automation is cheaper than paying wages, it will be done - but the cost of automation is not stagnant, it gets cheaper as time moves on. Minimum wage is at best jump starting what would happen anyway

[@aleksakuljanin2442]

​@@nonyabisness6306Everyone here sees you commenting on every comment in this comments section. Go outside for once and touch grass. I don't know why you're shilling for multi billion dollar corporations, maybe it's because you want to feel superior to us normal people because you have no life of your own and are chronically online. Why do you even watch this kind of content if you're going to sperg out like this? People like you are some of the worst people on the internet.

[@ZeroFighter]

So here's my big issue with the current minimum wage I live around. Minimum wage has, since the 1930's, been established as the minimum wage required to live comfortably. As FDR phrased it, not just the bare subsistence, but living comfortably. He suggested that everyone, with this minimum wage, working 40 hours a week, every week of the year, should be able to cover food, shelter, transportation, medical expenses, and personal hygiene, as well as enjoy simple luxuries such as a brand new radio once a year. Radios in 1933 were on average between $40 and $100. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $961.02 and $2,402.55 today. In other words, at minimum wage, after seeing to all expected expenses, I should be able to buy a new, mid-range to high-end gaming desktop every single year. The reality is that where I live, with MW at $11.20 an hour, after housing, food, hygiene, cleaning supplies, transportation, etc... the average 40-hour worker still ends up over $9,500 in debt. "It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By 'business' I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white-collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level- I mean the wages of decent living." Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1933

[@Sovek86]

using FDR as a justification of what the MW should be is completely ignoring his involvement in the absolute hell that the great depression was, and his involvment in actually extending its effects to the point it wouldnt get turned around until WW2. FDR was also fond of socialism and really buddy buddy with Russia and didnt see the danger of what communism posed and his absolute overreach with the federal government.

[@ZeroFighter]

@@Sovek86 Open your eyes. I'm saying this shit doesn't work.

[@Xplora213]

It’s an excellent point Zero - FDR missed the most fundamental premise of economic SUCCESS (not just activity)… you have to create Surplus in order to benefit from the economy. Extra grain. Extra fuel refined. Extra Tshirts made. More product sold. If you don’t do better than others, you cannot expect more than others, and here is reality. The hypergamy of women prevents pure subsistence. We don’t have a fair supply of pretty girls. They know it and they only want the best. The economy merely reflects this need to show who is best. The only people who need minimum wage are losers. The rest of us have to prove to the ladies that we are winners.

[@artistrg3487]

@@Sovek86He was also a philanderer and overstayed his welcome as president until cancer got him.

[@ZeroFighter]

@@whitehavencpu6813 To the contrary, poverty is everywhere in the US. Our wages are high when compared to other nations', but our costs of living and general expenses are equally high. If you want the best computer parts, you go in asking how many thousands of dollars you'll spend. If you just need a laptop for work, your only question will be how low you can keep it under $1,000 USD. Low-income rent starts at $1,500 a month, and in many places, rent does not include utilities, which add up to several hundred more. The average monthly grocery bill for 1 adult in 2024 is around $480 a month. Single portions of cheap meat go for around $4 to $10, and since those are single portions, multiply that by 3 meals, then multiply that by 30 days for the month. That's $360 right their for just meat, no fruits or vegetables. I got a bag of carrots the other day for $9. I eat 1 meal a day because I I won't be able to pay my other bills if I splurge on 3 a day. I meal prep, cook all of my own ingredients, I skin most of my own meat, and it's not enough in this economy. The cost of simply making a single helping of curry is enough to make me consider whether or not I can afford to turn bedroom lights on for the impact to the electrical bill. Air conditioning is a corporate / government luxury that many homes can't afford to enjoy anymore. Our luxuries are often holiday coupons for 1 free ice cream cone from a restaurant every summer. That's a luxury to a lot of people in the US right now. We take freebies whenever we can because we can't afford to actually pay for them.

[@mounne13]

As someone who is living comfortably I can confirm that raising my wages will not fix my mental illness. Granted it helps me get to my appointments and pay for my medication but I'm very much as mentally ill as I was when I was unemployed.

[@Gulgathydra]

In short, the problem with minimum wage is that raising the minimum wage increases the number of people earning the minimum wage, which results in people working impoverished. Which is a number that should be kept to a minimum.

[@rutessian]

It also incentivized employers, where possible to replace to jobs with robots.

[@coal_powered]

this is dev's secret way of pleading with youtube for them to finally pay him for his videos

[@PinballBob1]

Thomas Sowell, people. Thomas Sowell.

[@bluecoin3771]

Andrew Ryan once said, “A man creates, a parasite asks, ‘Where’s my share?’”

[@nonyabisness6306]

overly simplist and lacking in forethought. good job.

[@Luluchan00]

​@@nonyabisness6306 What exactly is wrong? Unless you're a child, why do you expect people to take care of you and make sure you can stay alive?

[@ExPwner]

@@spacejunk2186that’s not what it means. Your take is retarded

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@Luluchan00 If you live in a country that's an actually united singular people and not an immigrant nation like America, you have an incentive to look after your common kin. Something you wouldn't understand.

[@Luluchan00]

@@SeruraRenge11 I'm from China you dickhead.

[@caphumphreys8934]

I have to defend the libertarian cope. Our position is not that we don't believe subsidies CAN'T be used to improve markets, it's that the bureaucrats involved are not going to use that power responsibly.

[@ExPwner]

It literally isn’t an improvement. If you subsidize a thing that wouldn’t be produced without it then the result is an economic net negative.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@ExPwner Some things HAVE to be subsidized because you'd have to be an idiot to not do so. Only ancaps are braindead enough to think you should let China build America's tanks because it would be cheaper than subsidizing the US's defense industry, since the result is China sabotaging the tanks so that they can more easily win a war. Not everything is competitive but regardless has to exist for a country to continue existing, even if it's an economic drain.

[@abcdef-ms9mb]

@@ExPwner That's correct, if the demand cannot meet with the supply that most usually means that the consumers do not actually need the product and have unrealistic expectations for its pricing

[@thenew4559]

If it can't exist without significant government subsidies, then it doesn't need to exist. It can exist in a few years down the line when innovations make it economically viable; but for now, interfering in the market to prop up something which otherwise wouldn't exist will just create a lot of negative downstream effects, screwing up market forces. This approach just sounds like very short term thinking to me, like a child demanding you give them what they want now, with no foresight as to what consequences it will cause.

[@____________________519]

Notice that he gave not one single example where his principle holds true. Any example he were to give would be ripped to shreds

[@Florkl]

I do think it’s been interesting to watch all the “minimum wage” places up their pay well above minimum wage when the market demanded it.

[@nonyabisness6306]

it's meant as a safeguard, not as the standard for the market. so no surprises.

[@evanhuizenga8626]

Well, it's a little misleading to say the market demanded it... since it's all a result of massive inflation due to money printing, and unnecessary lockdowns which obliterated supply lines for many industries, neither of which the market played any part in. We don't live in a free market economy after all

[@ExPwner]

@@nonyabisness6306it does not safeguard anything. If the labor is not worth the wage then it won’t be purchased. These laws do not give people raises, they just mandate unemployment

[@Mrjdog304]

They did but also cut hours around me most stores and fast food were 24 hours pre pandemic and since very few went back to 24 hours

[@papapalps2415]

​@@Mrjdog304This is an EXTREMELY common thing across the Western world that just...isn't talked about, for some odd reason. You are 100% correct; moreso, actually, because it isn't just grocery stores, there are countless business's and industries that cut hours during the pandemic and just...never returned them to what they were before. You see much the same with everything from malls to casino's.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

You and mentis wave need to have a convo about government involvement in market, trust you both gonna have a good convo since he's a chill guy

[@7emidio]

Both of them hate the debate model, Dev due to personal preference and just being bad at such and Mentis because he believes such model is not good to discerning who's right to begin with. But yeah, if they decide to just chit chat about it that would be interesting, especially after this video's claim that subsidies can be a good thing and that there is such thing as a naturally broken market and that it would benefit from said subsidies.

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

@@7emidio Mentis answered in a Q&A that if Dev asked, he'd be down for having a chat.

[@7emidio]

@@KaNoMikoProductions Oh really? I hope that happens. It should be interesting to see

[@sharpangus8538]

I trimmed my lawn with scissors and worked way harder than my idiot neighbour who used his lawnmower.

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

good analogy

[@jessicaberry5596]

Unless I'm missing something, you forgot some jobs that effectively require per hour payment. Mostly on the floor people, like security guards / bouncers, traffic control, and on staff maintenance (Unless you don't mind waiting for your on call maintenance to come over from wherever they are). There are some jobs that by their nature, mostly the "In case something happens", you need them there constantly, and they should be paid by the hour. It would be a terrible idea to pay security for each fight they break up, or each roudy person they throw out, as it may lead to some causing these incidents to happen, rather than responding to it as it happens as the requirement of their job.

[@slydoorkeeper4783]

Yeah, I tend to give cashiers as an example because you need them there despite only having 8 customers one day, but maybe 100 the next. Plus you never know when EXACTLY you'll need them. My job is kinda similar. I weld parts for machinery, but I don't exactly know when I'll have all the pieces for it or even what jobs I'll have to do that day. So being there for my shift is a "go with the flow", sometimes we are loaded with orders, sometimes we have relaxed days. Just kinda depends on when we can get the pieces to weld.

[@admiralnelson4225]

I've been working hard at my job for 5 years. 3 years ago I was making $10 above minimum. Now I'm making $3 above minimum. It makes it feel like all my hard work is not worth it when I can go work at McDonald's and not take that much of a pay cut

[@nonyabisness6306]

ah yes. being able to work a less demanding job for almost same pay must be devastating. arguably the problem there isn't minimum wage, but your current job.

[@lukezeiolf6977]

⁠@@nonyabisness6306you always this short sighted?

[@Diddy_claps_Meek_Mill]

@@nonyabisness6306 It must be hard for you to understand when you haven't worked a day in your life.

[@vangoghsseveredear]

That's a lot of the issue, tbh. Raising minimum wage doesn't raise wages of people who are already well above it. This devalues your work, sometimes literally, by goods going up to compensate for everyone's higher wages.

[@Xplora213]

@@lukezeiolf6977yea he’s trolling constantly.

[@Atrabilaire31]

What I've always found very dishonest in the whole "living wage" concept is the amount of luxuries people in first world countries count as "basic needs". No, Tiffany, having your nails and hair professionally done every two weeks, going out to eat at restaurants once or twice a week, vacations and the new car that you want etc. are not "essential". I've been living as a student bellow the poverty line in my country for the past six years (around half of the monthly minimum salary) because I wanted to devote as much time as possible to my degree. My life is by no means bad. Of course I can't go out every weekend and pay for drinks or restaurants but if you cook for yourself and don't spend money frivolously you can live comfortably with very little money. Mind you, I still go to the gym, have a high protein diet (protein is the most expensive macro) pay for my phone, house, Internet, clothes (you can find second hand clothes that are a lot higher quality than fast fashion for a fraction of the price). People are just way too used to the luxuries the developed world has given them and take everything for granted now.

[@whytho1690]

Yup.

[@maozk4983]

Same. I just can’t understand how so many people take these luxuries for granted

[@backthrust1116]

That depends on where you live. Here in Toronto we have international students living with 10 other room mates in the same small apartment. Not exactly ideal or luxurious conditions. More like a slum really

[@AndrewChumKaser]

I'm slowly coming to realize that the pay by the hour model is fucked.

[@monkev1199]

Salaried pay can still be abused. Your boss pays you for what is effectively 40 hours a week but could assign you 60-80 hours of work a week. The incentive there is to keep you around as long as possible. Think free lunch and dinner at tech companies to try to keep you around until 8pm. Pay by the hour has an incentive to keep you around as little as possible since your cost is proportional to the amount of time something takes. Now for some jobs a salary might be better and for others hourly.

[@evanhuizenga8626]

Same here. I've felt this way for a few years now. I want to get paid by my productivity, not by my time spent. That's not very feasible for some jobs, but for a lot of jobs it could work. I have zero hope it will ever happen though; it's why I want to be self employed, because that's the only way to get that kind of deal now.

[@WayStedYou]

the amount of overhead to keep renegotiang payment is worse in the case for most jobs that use the by the hour

[@myusernamewasinuse]

That's because pay by the hour is a euphemism for wage slavery.

[@ExPwner]

@@myusernamewasinusethere is no such thing as wage slavery. Go peddle your commie BS elsewhere

[@rowanweaver3241]

minimum wage is kind of weird Like yea it prevents some people from being taken advantage of but it also means theres just less opportunity, where I live the minimum wage is super low so it doesnt matter but somewhere where the minimum wage is 15, It must be rough

[@GameFuMaster]

the minimum basically sets the minimum price of things. It's why UBI won't work. You'll have a bunch of people who'll squander that UBI (on drugs or whatever), and still end up needing food stamps or w/e.

[@christophekeating21]

What's the rent where you live? How much did it increase in the past ten years? How many times more than the increase in wages is it? What about the utilities? That's your "opportunity" right there!

[@nonyabisness6306]

i guess? labor laws in general really killed the opportunity for kids to work in coal mines. or for people to sell their organs. or for people to fired at-will. at some point your opportunity just becomes exploitation.

[@habibishapur]

It's not weird, it's really basic economics.

[@MikeHunt-zy3cn]

Minimum wage just shot up to 15.60 in my province. Goods raised in price with it in the last week. My province is fucked.

[@nightwng19]

If we had no minimum wage there would be more job opportunities. Flat out.

[@nonyabisness6306]

if we had no labor laws there's be more job opportunities for kids to work in mines. not all opportunities are worth maintaining.

[@Fernybun]

@@nonyabisness6306 Minimum wage is not a labor law however, it's merely price control for the labor market.

[@nonyabisness6306]

@@Fernybun minimum wage comes from the same place as a lot of labor laws, which is the exploitation of workers during the era of industrialisation. it is in fact a protective measure, much like labor laws. as suchif you argue for less protections you may as well argue for that as well.

[@myusernamewasinuse]

Yeah more opportunities to create even lower paying jobs you mean. Minimum wage increases as it is dont match the rates of inflation and CoL in a large swath of the country. The fact you think enabling corporations to potentially pay even less to workers will somehow make things better isn't just asinine, it's economically illiterate. But you're the same dumbasses who voted for Reaganomics back in the day, and look how trickle down worked for this country. Then again if you're part of the owner class I'm sure it worked just fine for you.

[@Fernybun]

@@nonyabisness6306 Protective measures are for labor to be paid at all, not to determine what the pay for the labor as to be. Minimum wage simply removes the need for the companies to negotiate for wages with their workers, they can just put the minimum wage and the workers have to accept that minimum, there's no negotiation involved and thus the ability for the workers to participate in the market is greatly reduced.

[@DrBockNstein]

The problem with the thought that raising the minimum wage means more money put back into the community is that it never actually happens and just goes into either amazons or Walmart's pockets.

[@nonyabisness6306]

yes, that's in fact what putting more money into the economy looks like.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

And that's because they are usually the ones who are the cheapest.

[@Cross_Malaki]

Same with cutting taxes only leading to more money going into Bezos and the Walmart family's pockets.

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

And then Amazon and Walmart raise prices along with their competitors. And the leftist response is a conspiracy theory as to why. The right wing is just a shrug of "gravity exists".

[@JJSquirtle]

I have a couple of things to add, not necessarily detracting your video but as a member of the lowest rung of poverty, I have worked multiple jobs in many fields, one of which is operating a restaurant, front to back, from the afternoon to the evening, by myself for minimum wage. The entire restaurant industry is full of this for example. I studied robotics, dramatic arts, literature, music, math, and science my whole life basically. But, there's no jobs, so we do jobs like this for any scratch that just might help pay the bills. One of the worst things that happens to us is "half days" where low skilled workers get sent home super early so the company can pay you less. I assure you most impoverished people WHO GENUINELY care about improving their lively hood dream of a salary day in and day out. Hourly wages are a lot harder to negotiate than salaries too as there are a approximately a million different "what if" straw man's thrown out there when you ask for a raise on a hourly income compared to approximately a couple Thousand for salaries

[@thegrimharvest]

That's not a Libertarian cope. "True Libertarianism has never been tried before." Would be a Libertarian cope. If it weren't true.

[@kevinnio]

Yeah, Dev fails to understand that small amounts of regulation is not the issue but the always increasing amounts of it that keep moving the decision making from the actual people involved to law makers. No matter how good their intentions are, they simply can't plan for everything and will end up causing issues in such a complex system.

[@thegrimharvest]

@@kevinnio It's "I knew an old lady that swallowed a fly." But on a governmental level. Every fix needs a fix. Every "cure" has side effects, that also then need "cures", and the more they do, the more they need to fix. The more they fix, the more they need to fix. It's like trying to get to light speed. You always need infinitely more energy which is hindered by the infinitely greater mass required to create the infinite energy. At some point, it's all just going to completely break, and no amount of policy will fix anything anymore. Even nominally.

[@TombaFanatic]

My general cope for "true libertarianism" is that societies that embrace free markets tend to do better than societies that don't long term. The closer to libertarian it gets, the more I like it, but I think a lot of libertarian success might have background cultural features that may be the actual key to the success and that we might not be able to build a good society on just libertarianism. I think there is a decent chance, "true libertarianism" might be a disaster and that a happy medium is needed but I'm comfortable pushing for a more libertarian society via non-violent methods. Where the "true socialism" crowd annoys me is that they will actively push for systems that fail miserably, several times causing millions of deaths, and go "well we just didn't do it right" and blame the failure on capitalism.

[@thenew4559]

@@TombaFanatic all that concerns me is that taxation is theft, and all government action is coercion. You cannot rationally support the existence of government without an extremely self-contradictory moral theory, as government itself always has to be the exception to any moral rule (I'd recommend the book "The Most Dangerous Superstition" for why this is the case, a free audiobook is here on KZbin). What system is the most utilitarian is secondary to morality, but since the decline of Christianity our more secular society has increasingly tried to use utilitarianism itself as the basis for morality. The problem with utilitarianism as a judge for what's right or wrong, is that without clear, universal rules, the human mind can rationalize itself into any position, no matter how horrible and nonsensical. We saw this throughout the 20th century with all the competing authoritarian ideologies, all of whom claimed to be the most rational and would create the greatest happiness for the greatest number. We need objective moral standards, based on reason and first principles, to clearly differentiate between what moral systems can and cannot be considered. All the debate over what economic system creates the most utility can only come after that.

[@papapalps2415]

​​@@thenew4559Ew, lol-bertarian drone.

[@scrubsrc4084]

When thr minimum wage eas introduced in the uk it dragged more jobs down to minimum than it raised.

[@metroidhunter965]

These are facts that are easily lost on the Vaush and Keffals of KZbin. Easier to call the company CEOs “fascist” and browbeat them into either submission or that permanent label.

[@nonyabisness6306]

wage stays the same, company profit goes up. that doesn't make anyone a fascist, but it does mean that if they companies can't manage to split their profits properly they are going to be forced to.

[@rclaws3230]

​@@nonyabisness6306Most of this money is going to the investors. We've got massive corporate extraction going on and it's being funneled out of everywhere in the world, probably to support China in the upcoming world war.

[@pizzaman-fx3xx]

@@nonyabisness6306 What makes it OK to force people to split their profits "properly?"

[@Xplora213]

@@nonyabisness6306staff aren’t paid according to company profit OR LOSS. They are paid for labour which may or may not be profitable. Your Marxism continues to miss that plenty of businesses fail. They pretend that every lemonade stand is Coca Cola and every tshirt has Nike on the front.

[@JimiVexTV]

The minimum wage doesn't just hurt those in the middle and top, but those at the absolute bottom. MacDonald's having to raise the price of a cheeseburger by a few cents means little to the average customer, but probably does to the guy sleeping in their doorway. Otherwise, super low skilled workers are just priced out of the market altogether - turning more people to be dependant on welfare.

[@MaestroGrey]

McDonalds doesn't have to raise the price of a cheeseburger, they CHOOSE to.

[@jemm113]

@@MaestroGrey my guy, it’s not a choice if it’s raising prices or going out of business! Even for a corporate example like McD’s they rely on locations being able to keep themselves open since corporate won’t keep money sinks afloat.

[@MaestroGrey]

@@jemm113 For fuck sake, McDonalds isn't going to go out of business if Chris Kempczinski makes 16million this year instead of 17.

[@JimiVexTV]

​@@MaestroGrey Man, you are just demonstrating that you're economically illiterate, and have no concept on how decisions are made in large corporate bodies. Otherwise, I know you're being flippant, but the idea that 1 million being taken out of 1 man's paycheck would even put a dent in upping the wages of Mcdonald's staff, across massive regions, is laughable. McDonald's has over 40,000 restaurants my guy. Ultimately, if a company has to pay their lowest skilled workers more, they have to find that money from somewhere, whether that's passing it onto the customer, siphoning off resources from elsewhere in the company (i.e, people getting laid off or reducing pay/benefits for other staff) or accepting less profit, and thus growth/expansion, leading to less job opportunities for folks moving forward too anyway. On that last point btw, in accepting less profit - that isn't necessarily a choice any publicly shared company can just make on a whim. Understand that publicly shared companies are beholden onto their shareholders. The CEO works for them, not of his own volition. Let's say they could just decide to be less profitable. Let's say McDonald's (or whoever) openly demonstrate (to the many thousands of people invested in their company) that they are going out of their way to be less profitable - that gives all in incentive in the world for these investors to pull their funds, and would be a mighty red flag for any would-be investors too. Overnight, their worth could spiral the drain - and everyone involved loses out.

[@jemm113]

@@MaestroGrey you really don’t understand how this works do you? The execs make that much because of franchise fees and sales from their directly-owned stores. They make that money from the stores themselves. Reducing fees is likely out of the question because while the impact on stores is minimal, the impact on corporate is not negligible and has far more teach than just the CEO salary. Do those salaries go too crazy? Absolutely (though McD’s may be less crazy by how widespread the brand is but I’d have to check that against other CEOs). But a million dollar, or more, sip in salary doesn’t equate to each store suddenly having all the money in the world to pay ridiculous wages. And McDs was already in the business of offering FAR MORE COMPETITIVE wages than the competition. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that most workers in cali were already getting $20. The issue I was bringing up with my example is that no one is immune to the massive issues of forced wage hikes, which in reality are just price minimums set on the price of hourly labor. And price setting *DOESN’T WORK* as every command economy in history is a testament to!

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

CEO as a job may be misunderstood, but too many CEOs still get paid more than they are worth.

[@aresgood1]

Yeah, but who pays them? It's the shareholders. It's their problem.

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

Typically that's for the stockholders to decide.

[@ExPwner]

What they are worth is determined by the people who are paying them, not your feelings

[@abdulrahmanchalya7873]

By what metric?

[@benjaminsmith3843]

Most CEO's get paid largely through stock dividends, and have rather low salaries. The idea behind this is twofold, first a large number of people complaining that CEOs were overpaid and that their salaries didn't match their actual performance, and that stock dividends were the most direct way to tie CEO compensation to their performance. This has had two major effects, the first is a massive boost to CEO compensation, and the second is shifting CEO incentives towards short term stock gains rather than long term stability and growth.

[@Stilgarsan]

"I know art commisions don't work this way" - Yes, precisely for the reason you are getting into with this analogy

[@andrewryan1946]

Really digging your upload schedule of late, Dev. Hope you aren’t burning yourself out at this pace!

[@bullpcp]

The problem I have with many studies that show minimum wage increases have little or no effect on employment is that many don't take into account businesses enacting hiring freezes, or laying employees off BEFORE the increase in minimum wage takes effect. Most businesses don't wait until after the wage increase takes effect to take action. Many studies look at the time period AFTER the minimum wage increase when much of the effect took place BEFORE. When the time period of analysis is widened to include when the first announcement of a minimum wage increase is to occurs, much more of the employment effect is captured.

[@TheNewChevyRoll48]

There's one other factor which I wonder if it would nullify increasing the minimum wage. Lifestyle Inflation. As these wages get more hourly, chances are they'll spend more of that money because they aren't use to having enough to save and thus put themselves back at square one. This might be a dumb argument, but I could see these people not adjusting their spending habits leading to asking for another bump in the minimum wage and repeating the cycle.

[@nonyabisness6306]

sure? but you can just do the math to determine if an increase is warranted. just like the government does with social programs. people shouldn't be getting money because they want it, but because you can show they don't get enough to live.

[@lukezeiolf6977]

@@nonyabisness6306by your logic they would never get an increase lol

[@Xplora213]

Great point OP. The reality is that humans don’t spend based on absolute wealth but relative wealth. You get more, you spend more if inflation is kept equal. But the extra spending CREATES inflation. It is the definition of it 😂 If minimum wage only affected 1% of workers it wouldn’t be an issue but the minimum is too high so it covers too many. And it doesn’t create living standards.

[@ohrojer9241]

the point made at 16 minutes hits true with me. I have really bad nerve damage and can't get on disability yet I have a friend who just doesn't like to work and she has disability. I don't understand our system.

[@jakeyeatsbacon]

Improvement in efficiency and productivity doesn’t necessarily refer to the laborer. In manufacturing, we use that to refer to things like increasing run speeds, changing material inputs to something that runs better in a machine, or decreasing machine costs like MRO materials / decreasing the machine footprint for more floor space. There is a discernible impact to finished goods cost, but it is negligible compared to reducing labor cost.

[@jakeyeatsbacon]

It’s also worth noting that it’s rare manufacturing only compensates at the minimum legal rate.

[@tacituskilgore8747]

If you aren't earning a living wage, then stop working. If everyone does so, employers will have no other choice than raising wages if they want to keep operating.

[@lostzephyr2191]

Lol, they will just import 85 IQ third world rapists to do it.

[@MaestroGrey]

This video is an example of why that wouldn't happen. Rather than take a hit they'll raise the prices of everything and guys like Dev will hop on their noble steed to go defend it.

[@jonse5a]

I didn't follow your argument against the "if a company can't pay a living wage, it shouldn't exist". I wish you'd explored this a bit more.

[@simonbrosseau1783]

The natural minimum wage is how much money you could make working for yourself. Any employer willing to pay you more than that isn't exploiting you since you consent to the exchange.

[@slydoorkeeper4783]

exactly, its the whole idea of paying someone to make me a burger vs just getting the stuff to make it myself. If I come out with more in the end of just doing it myself, why should I look to the middle man? If I can make $200 a day doing lawn care as self employed, but the middle man would only pay me $160 per day, why do such? The real truth is, employers mostly have everything you need to do your job, they just need your skills and time. Whereas being self employed, all that falls on you. If something breaks, that is now for you to worry about, instead of your boss.

[@lordshell]

"Libertarian cope" huh? Tell me, what has led you to believe that politicians and bureaucrats are suited to interfere in the free market? That they can discern "bad" interference from "good" interference?

[@TheWiggum123]

Scientism

[@lordmars2387]

I have a similar anecdote, it wasn't a minimum wage hike it was ACA. I was a cashier at the time working 40hrs a week soon to be automatically transitioned to salary. Orders came down from up top "no more employees, no more potential employees, Temps only." My hours were slashed down to 25hrs a week and our staff nearly doubled. What was happening was the company was prepping to be sold and nothing close to a firm definitive ACA was out yet, only wildly different promises from politicians. At the time one version of the bill would force any employer to provide x% of the health insurance cost for all employees working +25hrs a week. I transitioned to a bigger company shortly after for more hours. They were being very hush hush with the sale.

[@afelias]

I can't even take this seriously because the first minute alone Dev misinterpreted a basic S-D curve. Price is the Independent Variable in an S-D curve. It's not "If the quantity available is high and the price is low, the demand is this much"; it's "If the price the good is available at is high, the total quantity demanded at that price is low." Similarly, sellers and buyers do not determine "this price at that amount," again, the price is the IV. It's "If the price is set high, then there are more willing to supply it than demand to buy it - we are at a state of surplus (like a store that has too much stock that never gets sold); if the price is set low, then there are more demanding to buy it than those willing to supply it - we are at a state of shortage (like when you line up for a limited good that you might not get at the end)" It's hard to take anything else seriously when you fail to draw the comparison lines horizontally instead of vertically. It undermines any economic argument you could make about not just the labor market, but any other market - both micro and macro, since AS and AD follow the same basic rules too. 1:50 "Scalping is when they buy at low prices and hoard it when demand skyrockets" except the graph shown is that demand went DOWN. The Quantity Demanded went down as the equilibrium point moved left. Demand stayed the same. It's the supply curve that shifts in scalping. Jesus. I really hope this video has a real point to make. 3:00 "This graph tracks anything that can be sold" Specifically, anything you put a price on. You don't even need to sell the good, just put a price on it, declare an intent to buy or sell at some fixed value of compensation. A Willingness to Buy is still part of the market - that's why the S-D curves depict imbalances at prices past the Equilibrium. The Equilibrium point does not represent what anyone is willing to buy or sell anything - people are really flexible on prices. The Equilibrium point represents the total amount of exchange of cash for goods and services (Price x Quantity at Equilibrium most especially), the actual deals that were made and fulfilled instead of Intents to buy and sell. What people are willing to price things isn't the same as what magic funny numbers in price led to a successful transaction.

[@Micromation]

Main problem with minimum wage increase is that it's only a numerical change on your bank statement and it doesn't translate into actually being able to live more comfortably or even eat better. It merely chases inflation and not very well at that. Also creates funny situation where non-minimal wage workers do not get apropriate raises and in few years time unskilled labour is catching up to them. It leads to destruction of middle class and doesn't in any way improve the life of min-wage slave because the increased cost of labor is directly offloaded onto consumer. So you earn more... But you can buy less 🤷🏻

[@Lord_Stug]

minimum wage bad Okay I'll watch the video now.

[@chrissant6277]

Unfathomably based

[@RealRatchet]

Raising minimum wage doesn't increase median wage in any way that it matters. Meanwhile increased costs gets offset onto everyone and the price of goods and increased costs reaches an equilibrium. So the lower class gets a short term benefit, meanwhile uou end up shrinking the middle class permanently.

[@Alkixkix]

"Living Wage" is such a nebulous term. It includes whatever people want to have, not what they need to have. It also varies by region due to standards of living, so it's impossible to have meaning.

[@IchNachtLiebe]

Your point at the very end is apt. I've worked for myself for a long time. Hourly often is stable but sells me short, salary is often demotivating because I dont want to work extra for the same pay. What makes me want to work fast, efficient, and at high quality is set price commission. I bid a job for $5k i want to do the best I can and not make mistakes so that I don't have to fix anything. I want to get it done efficiently so that I can start a new bid.

[@agaifi]

Forcing wages up ends up destroying the value of the currency, requiring another min wage hike, further destroying the value of money. The solution is to have as many self employed people as possible, and as many small businesses competing to hire people as possible. This will naturally make society more equal without destroying the value of money.

[@slydoorkeeper4783]

Exactly, because minimun wage doesn't hurt the big businesses at all, just removes their competition and therefore, widens the gap between the poor and rich. Because self employed people, and small business owners tend to be more in the middle class.

[@conradmills4977]

But self employed people get strange ideas about responsibility and involvement in foreign affairs due to their position, and we can't have that.

[@Netist_]

My biggest issue with the "living wage" argument is that, before you even get into any of the real points involved in that argument, the reality is that a lot (though not all, or maybe not most) of the people complaining that they "don't have a living wage" are actually just irresponsible with their money. You don't need luxuries to live. They are luxuries. Not everyone can have everything they want when they want it. Get over it.

[@steinarvilnes3954]

Are you one of those people that would class a mobile phone, television set or a car in the US context as "luxuries"?

[@Netist_]

@@steinarvilnes3954 It depends. The nuance matters. Unfortunately, depending on where you live, a car may or may not be a luxury. If you live in a major city, you probably don't really need one. If you live outside of a major city, it can be quite essential. For a phone? Again, there's nuance. There's certainly an argument to be made that you need a phone of some kind, and I'd agree. But for the functionality that is "essential for living in modern society", a $40 smart phone from the dollar store will work equally as well as a $1500 iPhone. Maybe the software won't be quite as good of an experience, but that's definitionally luxury. And a television? Absolutely a luxury. Why would you need one if you have a mobile phone? You can get all the news and entertainment you want on your phone.

[@Scooterbeerrun]

@@steinarvilnes3954 what the fuck do you need a tv for? I'm a little sympathetic to the phone argument because jobs and payment methods are becoming reliant on them but nah you ain't going to tell me you need tv

[@RockerTopper-hh3ru]

I’m one of the weirdos here for the extremely hot graph-on-graph action. I’m an economist so I do it at bliss point.

[@enraikow6109]

I'm telling you, the free market is the way

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

In a nutshell... it's a measure incompatible with localization, because it entirely disregards economies of scale, operating costs and the profit margin of small businesses (and yes, individually operated franchises count.)

[@slydoorkeeper4783]

I keep asking leftist "who do you think can handle the minimum wage increase, the little guy who has less money set aside and more than likely still has the business debt? Or, the big guy who more than likely has money to spare and that debt paid for? Because increasing that minimum wage would benefit the big guy more as his competition is removed and putting more people into the state of having less economic mobility".

[@masterofThardus]

10:41 And this is the hidden factor that more studies should look into, tbf. The thing about minimum wage increases is that, logically, they force all wages up, not just the wages of the lowest-paid workers. If working as a burger-flipper makes you $15 an hour, there's very little reason to work as a bank teller at $14 an hour, so the bank teller's pay must go up if the bank wishes to retain employees.

[@Liberty_or_Ded]

>"Governments not getting involved is just libertarian cope! There are many examples where markets are broken!" >doesn't cite examples.

[@ExPwner]

That’s because there are none. He has no examples but wants to claim it because of his priors

[@Liberty_or_Ded]

@@ExPwner Dev's almost blind trust of institutional governing systems is well-documented at this point. Every market I can think of that's broken became that way through government intervention or involvement.

[@ExPwner]

@@Liberty_or_Dedexactly. This take is almost as dumb as his one about COVID and saying that government is great because it eventually stopped enforcing all of its authoritarian bullshit from the COVID era. They didn’t do it forever so it’s actually just fine guys!

[@dBsdecibels]

Here's the thing that people forget to think about: Why does a higher min wage affect businesses negatively? It's essentially a form of inflation with no/minimal improvement to productivity to offset the inflation. Okay, so in an even-keel market with the typical rate of inflation, adding a bit of extra inflation in the form of a higher min wage may not have too big of an impact on businesses, so they don't have to use harsher offset tactics. But in the current environment, with rampant inflation, when you tack this on top of it, it just exacerbates the problem and now businesses WILL start taking advantage of ALL avenues to compensate, extensively. Also, the first study referenced only assessed this in one moment in time. Technology changes, and the tactics businesses have at their disposal changes with time. The cost of automation then was high, so businesses couldn't utilize it. It's gotten a LOT cheaper since then, so they can, and have adopted that strategy far more with the most recent rounds of min wage hike. There's also one form of adjustment some businesses can make that wasn't in the list: offshoring. Not all businesses can do it, but those that can, will.

[@ScottyBleez]

I have a "Minimum Wage" topic video on my channel that took place at UC Davis, CA. After overcoming the embarrassment of asking random people for an interview, I realized the totality of responders were Progressive and (in their mind) empathetic. To get ONE person to act as the other side, I interviewed someone that I KNEW was against the minimum wage and he ended up being the star of the show. An exchange student that had a passion for Liberty. I think the main issue is that people want the comforts of modern life, without the risks and sacrifices it takes to achieve that life. If entrepreneurs have the liberty to legally set wages depending on people's productivity, qualifications, morale, etc., without the interference of the state, then potential employees would have to weigh their own costs and benefits of accepting those wages. But employees have the ability to change jobs if another (better) opportunity comes along. So businesses better sweeten the deal for seasoned and productive workers, or they will get fed up and serve the competitor. The point is that EVERYONE wants their life to be easy. Some people are willing to compete and work hard to have an easier life down the road. And some people don't want to enter that race to begin with, predictably by fear of failure.

[@ExPwner]

7:04 wrong again Dev. Scholarly efforts to document the disemployment effects of increasing the minimum wage have shown that it does and go back for decades and decades. David Neumark, and William Washer. 2006. “Minimum Wages and Employment: A Review of Evidence from the New Minimum Wage Research,” NBER Working Paper no. 12663 That is a literature review of over a hundred different studies on the subject.

[@MikeHunt-zy3cn]

I'm not even a scholar, or have higher education, and even I can figure out that when wages are forced to increase, workers are cut. So idk how Dev was dense enough to not understand that concept.

[@pizzaman-fx3xx]

Anytime Dev is close to being reasonable, he always find a way to slip in a shill for the state.

[@Augustborne]

Increased minimum wage for retail/food jobs just encourages businesses to downsize and relegate those jobs to automation thus leading to layoffs. I’ve already seen lots of fast food places using kiosks and AI to take orders.

[@therealquade]

as soon as you said a thing, I about died laughing because I saw the problem immediately : An increase in available funds, Does not increase demand for products. if I suddenly gain a million dollars, I'm not going to suddenly start buying 12 pizzas a day.

[@p.s.shnabel3409]

Yup. Add to that the fact the surplus funds are going abroad (mostly China, I think) and the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

[@therealquade]

@@p.s.shnabel3409 Shein, Temu, Ali babba/Aliexpress.... and they're trying to outpace japan for gacha games. soooo yeah.... you're not wrong about the china thing.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

for most people, increasing the amount of money they have, does actually increase their spending habits.

[@therealquade]

@@ShortFatOtaku yes, but only to a certain limit. Most people don't actually get any kind of substantial windfall like that, and the ones that do often did so on pure luck, with no attachment to it and so they spend it frivolouslly, on other things they have no attachment to, as if neither the money nor purchases are real. When people are actually connected to a tangible reason for the new wealth, like a sudden tax refund, or an inheritance, they often pay off any debts, repair or replace anything that needed it such as their car or washing machine, maybe their old computer gets an update, but then they do what rich people do and they sit on it waiting for a rainy day. They dont suddenly replace cooking at home with red lobster every day and spending all their time buying 14 sports cars. It takes a special kind of idiot. Or a special kind of narcissist to do that. And the people buying 14 cars... thats usually generational wealth, not a sudden change in economic standing. The few times it isnt, its new wealth to a narcissist like a few youtube dudebros we could name, and even they're reinvesting, albeit badly.

[@dantenotavailable]

@@therealquade On the flipside, one of the arguments i've heard for "The real reason poor people remain poor" is that there's (allegedly) a pattern we see where a small uptick in wealth will lead to a surge in "luxury" spending (e.g. huge TVs, unnecessary car replacements, more fast food delivery). This then resets them back to their prior level of wealth or sometimes even worse (e.g. larger tv or new car costs more to run). I believe the point here is that these people qualify for your "special kind of idiot" exemption due to a lack of understanding on how to manage money.

[@jolliapplegirl]

I still remember the NYC minimum wage increase. I know exactly ehen it happened because, by pure coincidence, that was the same time when i suddenly lost all my shifts. I went from at least 3 shifts a week to barely 1. My hours were reduced to jist under 6 hours (literally 5 hours and 45 minutes). Crazy, right? Im sure theres no connection at all. EDIT: oh hey, he mentioned that too. Yay.

[@nuyabuisness7526]

I've never worked or even seen a job listing offering minimum wage in the 7 years I've been in the work force. Even here in San Antonio, one of the poorest cities in Texas, with only federal minimum wage, I don't think I've seen anything under 10-11 bucks an hour.

[@solisglacies3183]

I live in a smaller city of about 55,000 in TN. I have seen a couple minimum wage positions. Namely cheap retail like dollar tree.

[@slydoorkeeper4783]

Same, ours is the federal (7.25) and when I started working (like 6 years ago) almost nothing was below $9-10. Almost makes you consider the types of people working those federal minimum jobs, and the people who advocate for a sudden increase like that. Because it will drastically mess up several areas in the US. Heck, the effect increase (making it like $15/hr here already) has caused a drastic change. And I see people advocate for $20, heck some for $30. They really can't see the consequences.

[@jessicah3782]

The problem with a “living wage” is that every single person’s (or household) operating expenses to live their lives are different. Some people’s life choices are more expensive than others. A classic example is how much more expensive it is for someone to be a chronic cigarette smoker. We know it costs thousands and thousands more to be a smoker. Should we really need to subsidize that? Is it our fault as a society if someone chooses to do something expensive that causes them to not budget housing with their minimum wages?

[@Hisu0]

Dev, there are also maintenance jobs. Security guards, dispatchers, watch duty, etc.

[@mature111ster]

As I get older, my thoughts have shifted towards people becoming business owners for themselves, or all other businesses hire contractors. As a contractor you can negotiate wages and compensation. This also means people will be motivated to do more work to get better pay, and underperformed workers will be let go allowing the business to improve. People shouldn't underbelly themselves, and so many people have this mentality. I also think HR culture kills businesses. If there's an issue of legality for harassment or abuse, bring in law enforcement to handle it.

[@p.s.shnabel3409]

I am very much in favor of cutting the red tape for starting a small business. But I also realize most people aren't cut out to be their own boss. Whether they lack the drive, the education of the intelligence, they'd rather not have the responsibility. As long as we just made it easier to start a business, I'd let people sort it out themselves. Those who want to still be employed should have the chance to do that, too.

[@justinbailey6515]

Frankly, i see minimum wage increases being pushed in areas of the country which have a large union presence. Higher wages means higher union dues means higher donations towards politicians who advocate for higher minimum wages. Information asymmetry at its finest.

[@evanhuizenga8626]

Let's not forget that higher wages also means higher income tax revenue for the government as well

[@J-Anon-]

Unions have always tried to restrict supply of labor, aka restrict their own competition. Like a cartel. Governments, corporations, unions, etc. always manage to dress up their own venality in bullshit language of charity & selflessness. They all want to have a monopoly, for their own benefit. Long before income taxes, granting trade monopolies was a common way for governments to tax the people indirectly.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@J-Anon-Yes, god forbid people who have organized for their self-interest take steps to benefit purely their own self-interest. Seriously, what is the argument here, that people should ACTUALLY be selfless and not act together in a way that advances themselves? Why? You think anyone else is going to play by that rule? No, you should always follow the rule from Children of Dune. "When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.” Everything is at the end of the day, about trying to get more of the pie for yourself.

[@J-Anon-]

@@SeruraRenge11 What's your argument? Hypocrisy is so obvious that I shouldn't bother to point it out? My point is that unions suck, union members are just wanna-be parasites that sometimes price themselves out of any industry.

[@woodsghost9088]

We should simply make the minimum wage $1000/hour. Businesses will figure it out.

[@yvanthedrakon]

Does Dave make minimum wage?

[@Phe0niz]

He's given a steady amount of gout every two weeks.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

@@Phe0niz The gout is eternal - Dave

[@mattd5240]

​@@ShortFatOtakuMinimum gout wage.

[@dantenotavailable]

Paid regularly in exposure.

[@Randomness65535]

I just wanna vent here. When I entered the job market in the UK (which has a decent minimum wage if you spend accordingly) I was doing jobs that, while necessary, don't require a lot of work. I was doing nothing half of my shift and getting paid for it. Now I'm earning only 10% more while my workload is enough to keep busy all day. The work consists of a huge variety of tasks, it's a very responsible job and I need a specific license to do it. All for a small increase that doesn't even keep me up with inflation.

[@chadisnotachad]

I want minimum wage abolished because I'm making more than double what I made a decade ago and my money barely goes as far, if it does at all.

[@The430philosopher]

There is no inherent link between what your labor is worth and what you want to buy with your wages.

[@knottheory79220]

So if no one wants Joe Biden's newest rap album, the government should subsidize it until it meets the demand curve.

[@maxscott3349]

In my area, it's actually too low and nobody is willing to work for it, so everywhere pays at least 14 now.

[@MrCovi2955]

An in depth study of the minimum wage is what turned Thomas Sowell from a socialist to a classical economist. Or rather, the way the data he collected and analyzed was dismissed because it didn't fit the narrative.

[@eliaspanayi3465]

People get paid what they're worth in this economy. When labour is worth less, its becsuse supply is high.

[@sophie9419]

The other issue your missing here is that most low-skill, minimum wage job are not intended to be careers. Nobody works as a fastfood cashier for 20 years unless there's something deeply wrong with them. They're entry positions to train people, who then go on to do other things.

[@monkev1199]

If you are in fast foot for 20 years (hell even 2-3 years I'd argue), I'd expect you'd become a manager at that point. Otherwise yeah you are doing something wrong

[@sophie9419]

@@monkev1199 That's why I specified cashier

[@mattd5240]

Could also just be crippled.

[@sophie9419]

@@mattd5240 I would think the job would be impossible then. Seeing as you have to be on your feet all day.

[@lostzephyr2191]

IQ is real and not malleable. Stupid people are also a part of society. You don't choose your intelligence (or any of your other characteristics). Everyone has the completely delusional view of blank statism that leads to callous stupidity like this entire comment section. 90% of English-speakers have a completely delusional and childlike understanding of how humans function.

[@Kikrafis]

The customer is always right in matters of taste. The whole saying needs to be spread more

[@onpatrolforthejuice]

Those Keynesian ass "examples of options for companies" have no idea about how money works at all and the only cope I see is from Dev.

[@jemm113]

Yeah, most of them have super terrible end-results, some of which Dev pointed out, others missed. Lowering training is just terrible. Only hiring more skilled workers just proves our point that minimum wages hurt the poorest and most vulnerable amongst us. The paper claiming how the first one shown was wrong by messing with the classifications of work was absolutely correct in their criticism and it’s how statisticians get away with lying with statistics; as the old adage goes, “there’s lies, damn lies, and statistics!”

[@soranosterreant]

These are some of my favorite videos from you, just logically thinking through complicated questions as a layman trying to understand the world.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

thank you!

[@ghostofrecon1]

Minimum wage was based in discrimination and is propped up by Keynesian bs

[@TheWiggum123]

It’s based in the theory of just price, it precedes Keynesian economics. It’s correct Keynesians did use it.

[@TheWiggum123]

It’s based in the theory of just price. It precedes Keynesian economics. But yes they did use it.

[@AscendantStoic]

16:54 The better artists will naturally ask for a higher hourly rate, the professional top tier one will cost you hundreds of dollars per hour if not thousands.

[@Kyle7565]

You failed economics at 2:30, if the price consumers want to buy a product for is lower than the price to produce it, then the producer-wasted their time producing worthless goods/services. That’s market forces correcting an inefficiency, there is no right to guaranteed purchase. If the good then becomes demanded, when producers no longer make it, then you have a scarcity that increases price. If not, then government intervention creates a false economy capturing redistributed wealth to produce worthless goods/services, like mandated gas pumpers in New Jersey.

[@ExPwner]

Yep he had a really dumb take there

[@TheEdgecrusha]

An artist is still thinking about how much their time is worth in hours usually even if they are charging per job. An exceptional artist will be able to charge more per hour AND take longer to create something superior to the average artist because people are willing to pay much more and wait longer .for excellence.