What's the Right Level of a Mix Before MASTERING? Rapid-Fire Q&A #16

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[@blaqdiamondgold]

Thanks for this.. This just cleared my doubts and fear about being too low

[@Dareyouhow]

I always seem to naturally gravitate to mixing to around -12db or so and have always felt that was a fault (thinking i would have noise issues etc). So I would then do a separate -6db mixes to bring it "up to standard". Glad to learn that's bs

[@kuhliloach8842]

The mix "print" level not mattering -- man, thanks so much for this key piece of information. Before hearing your view on this I was concerning myself with loudness strategies during the mix process, and bussing too hot into the mix bus.

[@trashunicorn2308]

Best on KZbin on a daily!

[@Bonzvy]

Alone from the thumbnail i daw David saying: "it doesn't matter as long as you dont clip" 😁

[@lucifer4097]

Clash on master track or every mixer (of instruments)

[@DavidSJ_DAP]

The more accurate question would be: What is the optimal difference between your peaks and lowest levels in a mix (crest factor)? How wide can the dynamic range be before you need to worry about some elements of your mix getting crushed by the limiter?

[@DavidSJ_DAP]

@@mixbustv This has been a problem for me lately...it seems like in very mix I do the drums are getting crushed by the limiter...I'm going to try to up my saturation game to see if that helps but I'm still pretty new to this and every time I try to add a new element (like saturation) it presents me with another new set of problems to solve...I love mixing, and I feel like I have a knack for it, but my weakness right now is patience for the learning process...you have been a huge help to me, and I appreciate it more than I can say...

[@jonathanmandia8566]

Work with your volume balancing first

[@johnromanos6957]

amen!

[@MrDJSTRATEGY]

Good info

[@sideast]

Just turn it up to 11 and have done with it !

[@kcmob2714]

So lf my mix is +1dB if i go to master and lower the volume and put the limiter im ok?

[@mixbustv]

no

[@GOTRAVlogs]

What about the “at least 3db of headroom” before mastering?

[@GOTRAVlogs]

MixbusTV these youtube teachers are fooling us all. Your channel is the one I watch almost exclusively from now on🤘 thank you

[@dirtyharry1881]

I asked a mastering engineer once myself. His answer was: no difference, if there's no dynamic range then even if you leave it at -10db, I can't do much with it.

[@brianmartin7710]

the lower the level of your master, the lower is the bit resolution. I think this makes a difference.

[@reyguerrero1662]

Your hair needs a compression.

[@terrestriangaming8207]

Dying laughing

[@JohnDoe-hp5nn]

Youre rude Rey! Your dick needs mastering and EQ

[@bigeddie1669]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@bigeddie1669]

DYNAMIC RANGE LOOKING WILD AND NEEDS TO BE CONTROLLED😂

[@cortical1]

Thanks for your knowledge and patience, David! It cracks me up when someone asks a question, you explain in great detail a better way to think about the question and all of its parameters, and then they say, "No, really, what's the answer?". LOL.

[@georginikolov1141]

If you gain stage correctly you shouldn't really clip.However 64 bit summing in daws allows quite a bit of headroom why not using it?It's 21 century there is no rules most of the time if the mix is good it doesn't need master if u try to master sounds shite.I am not sure these days hardware is that necessary if you get the right sounds it will sound as good.This is the main issue choosing shit source and expect hw to make it like record it doesn't.But if you are going to use gain staging is a must even tough the thenfun part in hw starts when you push the shit out of it 😉. We are mostly mens and we like it dirty as fuck haha

[@PaulBell88]

I go for -6dbfs peaks and around -18dbfs RMS. Master I shoot for ceiling of -1.5dbfs and-14lufs

[@rayfoster4339]

same here

[@skyrise4996]

So you're saying you go for -6dbfs peaks and also -18 RMS simultaneously? That's actually quite strange because realistically, there's no need for that. It's good if you aim for -18 RMS on sustaining instruments such as bass, pianos, etc. in order to hit the sweet spot while running your audio through analog emulation plugins which are calibrated to -18dBfs RMS. But I'm just wondering why you're concerned with a -6dBfs peak. For example, if you gain stage your hi hat to peak at -6dBfs, your hi hat fader will be SUPER LOW, leaving you with no resolution. So in this instance, you would be better off gain staging your hi hat to (lets say, maybe) -15dBfs. Then you're able to bring your hi hat fader up to unity and you're in a great place. My point is, setting levels to hit -18dBfs RMS can be helpful. But setting peak levels on sound sources that don't have much RMS information should be frequency dependent.

[@silverbackaudio643]

Yeah I tried mastering at -14 lufs. my clients kept asking "can you turn the mix up for me?" unless it's an RnB or ballad I master around -10 -9 I mostly mix pop and hip hop and RnB stuff but thats been my feedback on the ordeal.

[@kingjulius6858]

0db peak 0db rms 0db everything! 🔊😲

[@skyrise4996]

@@kingjulius6858 Damn, I can only imagine what your music sounds like lol. Sine wave or white noise? Which "genre" do you prefer? Lol

[@MeanTrainingMachine]

Engineers' Hall of Fame!

[@dereklyonproductions]

How many distressers on that hair bro Seriously though awesome video great tips.

[@harvestmediacompany7810]

We've found that for our setup (plugin-based), -12 to -14 LUFS is comfortable for us since we distribute via digital download services. You are absolutely correct, at mastering everything will be adjusted for the better. HMC

[@MIxstarsOnline]

Love your vids bro!!! I just bought the two Neves 542's and DIONE for my mix bus. I saw another vid of yours about EQ's, from there I bought 2 Purple Audio Lilpeqr EQ's. I had been looking for the hardware version of my RZ062 plug-in. On your chain do you compress before EQ?

[@tespiteng]

That was a question which bothered me for so long.. Thanks for explaining!

[@kromanoidx]

7:34 holy shit, you pointed at the like button so well that I got scared 😂(theater mode)

[@manhattanboy69]

It's just cruel how varied mixing/mastering videos are. I just watched 2 videos saying you need to maintain the mix ceiling on the master fader at no greater then -6db to leave "room" for mastering. Which is it? Confused...

[@mixbustv]

It's pretty easy, depends on who you think knows better, someone who mix and master for a living (who also happen to have a youtube channel) or youtubers who only "mix' their own stuff if anything at all. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever as to why your mix should be at ANY arbitrary level, as long as you don't clip, that's all it matters. The level of your mix should be dictated by your gain staging, did they mention that? and if you use analog or not. And what you're doing with it, and what you're capturing your mix with and another 40 variables they forget to mention, because they have no idea.

[@mblyarsmblyars6480]

Thanks for the video. In my humble opinion, mixes should clip as maximum as possible without exceeding 0 dbfs. Scientifically, every bit counts.

[@mixbustv]

No, scientifically, you have no reason to do so in 32bit floating point.

[@luckyknot]

Hi! i haven't watched your videos lately as they were too focused on physical gear so it's always nice to watch you back covering these more general topics about mixing. I'd like to ask you something: How i do consistently reach the same perceived loudness on every beat that I make (and how to fix the ones already finished)? sometimes i end up with a good mix with low LUFS. If i start touching volume faders i end up losing the original intention. Adding a louder on the master works sometimes, but i usually have to lower transients on kick, etc not to have positive true peak. I guess my gain staging is a bit poor (i should start applying the trick you gave by using the SSL comp output increase on each track). Thanks for your time.

[@emiel333]

Very useful, David. Thanks for sharing your amazing knowledge.

[@snubdawg1386]

at mastering stage, how loud should the track be before hitting the first limiter? after using the first limiter, can the track already be at 0.00 before hitting the second limiter?

[@mixbustv]

If you're in the box: it doesn't matter as long as you're not clipping (no basically anything BUT zero or above). -1 or -6 or -12 it doesn't matter

[@Sammie_E_Tellem]

timeless video

[@AgustinDavidF]

What a nice guy you are! Thank you, man for sharing your knowledge.

[@gliterott]

i love this dude so much no homo

[@wallyperfilantiguo7835]

What's the difference between Clippers vs Limiters and saturators? I found very few videos about that topic, and they don't explain clearly as you usually do. Salutes from Chile! Tkm

[@dat1beats]

What if you use a lot of noisy Waves plugins? Does it still matter how loud the 2 bus is? I think I know the answer already. Waves has some noisy compressors tapes and eqs.

[@nikolamijic]

Hi David, what do you think about the JBL's you have in this vid, in comparison to the Yamaha HS5 or adams A7?

[@mixbustv]

I'm not that familiar with Yammy's speakers but I'd look into small Eve's or Kali

[@Hollenx]

Why shouldn't we use a limiter on the master?

[@PurplerillaVA]

It depends on if you are "mastering" yourself or sending to ME.

[@WavetableMetaphysics]

Never apologize for working hard. You are smahing em!

[@Punk_Mayhem]

Please kindly do a review video on the Future Moments MicSwap pro mic modeller vs the Cunning Business Fox’s Mic Room Emulation( i wouldn’t even write down cunning, if they hadn’t put in their title musician first, no in their dictionary, we are not first, money comes first to ik. Everything else comes after that.

[@ssskkkiiibbbaaa]

Great Video!You have a lot of charisma!Now for a question...When you add a plugin, for example, an SSL channel strip and choose a nice preset for a kick drum, the volume usually increases a lot and there is less headroom for other plugins. Should we turn the gain down so there is little difference in volume when bypassed? Whats the general practice of adding plugins that increase the loudness of each track? In your fantastic gain staging video I understand getting the master fader at around -12db at the loudest section. However, lets say I have a channel strip on each drum track with different presets I like, however the sound is now unbalanced, do I then use the fader or turn the gain down in the plugin to restore the harmony? I hope this question isnt stupid...

[@lionaudio]

You can do it a few different ways. One way is to turn down your output gain on the actual plug in. The other is to put a gain trim plug after the compressor and turn it down there. I typically will turn down the output of the compressor to match the level of where i was before the plugin because I want to be sure i'm using the compressor to actually change the way it sounds, rather than just making it louder. Our ears tend to cause us to perceive louder as "better" when it is just louder. I try to always keep my output the same with plugs as I have without them in order to focus on sound, and also to keep my gain staging correct. Nothing worse than a bottleneck of energy at the Output stage and then having to go back and turn everything down again

[@ssskkkiiibbbaaa]

Sure I gotcha, thanks David. Now to watch more of your videos so I can learn to mix without presets..

[@ssskkkiiibbbaaa]

@@lionaudio Thanks buddy that`s very helpful! I hear you on that last sentence,that was me for a few years...

[@pauljohn5584]

I have a question... How do you deal with volume automation drastically changing your compression levels? Either on single tracks or buses or sub mixes? It seems that no matter how I route, any amount of automation affects some parameter at some point. Do I automate the plugin levels themselves? In which case, I still worry about how my submix is changed.

[@pauljohn5584]

MixbusTV Gotcha... I am in pro tools, yes. So doesn't matter on the individual channel. But automate the threshold along with the signal going in if I lean into it hard enough on the subgroups or 2 bus. Got it thank you!

[@markthomas7263]

I imagine that the people who subscribe to your page do so for the same reason I do .. they recognize that you are a genuine person who has professional info and experience and that you are not trying to sell or convince anyone of anything. You provide us with facts but respectfully allow for us, your subscribers and those who view your posts to draw our own conclusions. I really appreciate your presentations because it comes off as though we're in the room with you talking peer to peer rather than Feudal lord to serfdom subjects. Keep up the good work brother!

[@silverbackaudio643]

since you like to keep your dione typically at the same setting, what threshold do you set your two bus

[@silverbackaudio643]

okay

[@marnofranck6204]

Do you set the levels in your mix before or after mixing? After gain staging, I start to mix my track then set levels, but I see a lot of producers start with gain staging, leveling then mixing. What are the pros and cons when doing it both ways?

[@mixbustv]

Not sure what is both, you described the same scenario twice

[@marnofranck6204]

@@mixbustv I mean mixing before or after you set the volume levels of your tracks in the mixer? Some producers set their levels before applying compression, EQ, etc... and others applying levels after mixing.

[@davejohnsonmusic]

@@marnofranck6204 You want to set your levels first, during the static mix of just volume and basic panning. As you apply processing to tracks, you should be gain-matching your plugins so there's hardly a difference in gain when you bypass plugins. If you do this, when you get further in the mix, you shouldn't really have to move your faders much, except for automation. To process first without a mix balance and then set levels later makes no sense. You have to make your moves in the context of an already level-balanced mix, or it's going to be a clusterfuck.

[@metalfather8139]

mixbus tv ,,do i turn down the output to my guitar bus on the send fader L an R by ear to make the level less or is there a different way? ... when ever i make a bus its louder...

[@SydneyValette]

The mixprint needs to respect also the AD converters limits no? For example, on my apollo I know it's +20,2dbu max inputs so Im never recording the mix back too hot....

[@SydneyValette]

@@mixbustv Any idea of a better AD not too pricy? Whats max input on the 542s? Thx!

[@Tomroberts101]

I always ask for -6dB - not for any particular reason other than at least then it won't be clipped (as they almost always are if I don't mention anything, lol).

[@RoomAtTheTopStudio]

Recently I was told by two different sources that -16 was where I should set my threshold for my mix. I have done a couple of mixes at that level and then done a demo master and when I compared it to my previous demo masters I couldn't get them loud enough to match the old ones. Back in the days a mastering engineer told me to keep it to around -12 so I usually fluctuate betwen -6 and -12. I really needed to find out this information that you have given in this video so thank you very much. I will go back to my old levels that I was happy with. Much respect to you. I love your content

[@christopherdunn317]

Ya my Roland vs-2480 which i still use says too keep it at -12 and -6 anything below -12 results in a lower bit rate !

[@LosFicosMusic]

Man! Same here.. Everything you say I can relate! Keep up the great work

[@davejohnsonmusic]

This is a really good one. I must've missed this back when it was uploaded. This makes me feel more at ease now because I find myself not really touching my 2-bus settings all that much as well. Just gotta hit it right going in and you know where the needle should more or less be, or what lights should be hitting.

[@lupiyorro]

Thanks for tips...

[@preciseaudioblog]

What useful vid. Thank you!

[@bjazz68]

Thank you very much.

[@YVNGSHMIRV]

Great work 🔥✅

[@lahattec]

I think you should clarify that peaking at 0.01 doesn't mean crushing a limiter to get that. I think a mastering engineer wouldn't be able to do anything with that.

[@lahattec]

@@mixbustv Oh. OK. :)

[@jk0f1]

would it be right if my mix is at -6 and then I export the whole track as a wav start a new file and use something to boost the volume to 0? Is that mixing and mastering?

[@mixbustv]

Why you need to open another project? If the only thing you're doing is turning the volume up you can do it right there. Is not mixing nor mastering, it's just turning volume up. Refer to this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3mkhmePrcedqbc

[@jk0f1]

@@mixbustv thanks idk what I'm doing.

[@beepboop6288]

Just curious, at what stage do you set your mixbus eq? I find that I do it at the beginning, just small moves to shape for example the low end with the drawmer 1974( which as you know sounds incredible)

[@mixbustv]

Eq is the only thing I don't mix into. The only time I use eq on the 2bus is if at the end of my mix I hear a small buildup or I'm landing slightly light or heavy on the low end and maybe a light lift (not all of that at the same time)

[@beepboop6288]

@@mixbustv Thanks so much!

[@pop5tudi0ozmix21]

Thank you for your vlog! but on this subject you're missing the point. When my mastering engineer asks me for 8 to 12DB of headroom it is because He can achieve a perceived loudness with better results than I do with my flawed home studio, specially my poor acoustic treatment. He has then the possibility to make it sound louder with the stems correctly eq'd/panned/compressed/clipped and finally maximized. It is not about the sound because I'm a pro and I have made countless hit singles, it's about the most important thing in music production that no one is talking about: SUBJECTIVITY, that is why you should always work collegiately and why you have so many musicians credited these days on hit songs. Everyone of them is bringing his own perception of "perfect". One is fixing the bassline, the other a verse etc... That's why you need to give your mastering/artist engineer a good headroom so he can fix your flawed perception of the mix, no sorry... I meant SONG! There's no such thing as mixing, the song is always a song as long as you like it, with or without a good balance, it is a mix already.

[@mixbustv]

I think you're the one missing the point kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXKkY5l-jcuHic0

[@matthijshebly]

@POP5tudi0oz mix If your mastering engineer is asking for a certain specific loudness of your mix, then change to a different, more capable mastering engineer... Seriously, if he is asking this, and you don't protest, then both of you don't understand digital audio. This video explains CORRECTLY what it's all about. As long as it doesn't clip, and it's audible, it's FINE for a PROPER mastering engineer.

[@lilahmae2081]

Is using a clipper on your master bus to counteract clipping a bad thing?

[@mixbustv]

If you're clipping your 2bus you don't know how to do gain staging, if you don't know how to do gain staging it's like you want to be a programmer and you don't know how to turn on the computer

[@IKAPA0211]

🐐

[@gaudinni]

Thank David!

[@justincamacho913]

What size and brand rack case do you use for your Wes audio chassis?

[@justincamacho913]

Thank you your the man!!!

[@davet8618]

Till this day I have never seen a good tutorial on reverb decay time. How many reverbs to use. 2 or three and going voer the actual numbers and comparing what it sounds like as oppose to having another reverb being used in the same song like room for drums. etc. it woud be great to see you touch up on that one day. Honor coming from you! Thanks for the great tutorials!!

[@thimovijfschaft3271]

Well I don't think we need one. Reverb is where you can get very creative

[@The_Absurdistt]

For excellent reverb tips and tricks check out David's colleague Warren Huart at Produ e Like A Pro... His channel is a wealth of info. Cheers.

[@alienrefugee51]

But... if you asked a mastering engineer, what level they "preferred" to receive the mix at, what would they say?

[@rayfoster4339]

i think it would be safe to say the general consensus is -6 before master bus limiting on rock, country and metal, and -12 for r&b, rap and edm, but its not in stone, that is for sure

[@rayfoster4339]

and on other genres it may vary greatly ...for instance, a folk group vs. an orchestra

[@cortical1]

I'm guessing that David would emphasize the conceptual understanding, which he explains here, rather than give absolute meter values for people to follow. He refuses to dumb down his explanations to fit the way naive questioners frame them, which is why he's so great.

[@SimonTebbenhamMusic]

​@@mixbustv Why's that, just because their hardware and knowledge does it better? i.e. if you're self-producing-mastering, then fill your boots anyway... I've always done my mix then tweaked the loudness/limiting etc as a final thought - but the current track I'm working on I've got my 2-bus compressed, excited and limited as I'm actually composing, after the main parts are down and it's sounding epic. I'm favouring this way of getting to know the final output as I'm working.

[@PurplerillaVA]

They would throw -3 or -6 at you just so you have a reference to not clip. Mostly they dont want your stuff to clip. Its the most unfixable thing.

[@Lightingtaxifilms]

That was not useful to me

[@mixbustv]

Yeah I can imagine, "it doesn't matter" is a pretty hard concept to grasp.

[@besttopo]

I had always struggled with levels, this video was very usefull thank you. Greetings from México.

[@LetMeDieLord]

sooooo good. Thanks man! This channel is worth it's weight - hold on, that doesn't work... is worth it's uploaded content in gold. And that would be like, uuuuh.. 1kg per KB. Yes! That works!! All jokes aside - thank you so much David!!!