What's up with Pure Audio Project's open baffle speakers?

I will be getting the Pure Audio Project Trio15 Classic speakers in for review in November, can't wait. More on the '15 here trio15-classic.pureaudioproje...
#audiophile
#highendspeakers
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[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

Very interesting to be able to swap drivers and crossovers. This is kind of what Steve was talking about yesterday. Adventures in sound.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

A philosophy that I have heard before comes to mind here. If you ask people what they want in a product and then just hand it to them nine times out of ten they reject it and the project fails. Likewise if you give them too much choice in a product such as in a modular design they get frustrated and reject the product. So as a designer you have to take a stand and decide what you're going to offer and offer it. No speaker is for everyone even if everyone has the same room and electronics or even favorite musical genres. Sales has to just accept and deal with it. I think this guy may have found a balance and I hope it works for him.

[@billdunn8542]

Now that’s thinking outside the box. Gotta love it. 🎶

[@bobsmoot8454]

For people who reside at the upper end of the listening crowd, this is a very smart approach that allows the purchaser to acquire exactly what they desire and if the desire changes over time, they can swap out elements to meet their new perceived need.

[@ridirefain6606]

Love the concept of this design. Really forward thinking in IMHO.

[@brucering1190]

Wow! This is great. Thanks Steve and Zev for your insights.

[@miguelbarrio]

Pretty amazing. I would never leave the house tweaking this thing.

[@jlmain5777]

Miguel Barrio Never leave the boat.

[@TheUofAfan]

That’s half the fun to me

[@franknelissen8041]

Late to the party but as always Steve, a great interview! You ask the interesting questions and give people the room to answer! Thanks!

[@eightrodway]

Thanks Steve. I'm very curious about these but have never had the opportunity to hear them. You were lukewarm when I asked about Spatial so I look forward to your review of the PAP.

[@dougg1075]

Man there’s no telling how many DIY genius are out there .

[@dontcare563]

not many!

[@felinthorn4977]

I have recently converted to open baffle (Spatial Audio) The most incredible fast deep bass, imaging and soundstage are fantastic. Midrange and vocals are the best I have had in my room. Never going back in the box again!

[@adamfrost9048]

Are you still liking the Spatial speakers? I've been dreaming about the M3 Sapphire.

[@SuperMcgenius]

I like the concept.very interesting.

[@craigeliot5746]

The idea of modular design is very appealing. Build better as you go!

[@locmanw1583]

I like this concept 👌

[@SamuelBarrPhotography]

Listened to them at AXPONA, really liked them. Especially, the smaller, 3 module woofer/tweeter combo.

[@FOH3663]

I intended to experience them while at Axpona, and damn, ... even being there all three days I still didn't make it happen.

[@MrStingraybernard]

Those are really cool looking

[@dougg1075]

They look cool for sure.

[@doriarama]

I love his accent.

[@spencexxx]

Check out some Hammer Horror Dracula movies. You'll love them.

[@marcusm5127]

That is really cool.

[@shinvergil]

Isreal, Saudi Arabia and Iran? Audio and music join people once again!

[@jlmain5777]

shinvergil Peace through audio!

[@charleskatz2606]

Yeah a joint USA Israel German speaker being used in Iran.It is a bit amusing but hey its art not politics thank G-d there are some things in life devoid of strife and "positions (*unless that how far off the wall they are.

[@rosssmith173]

Although, it would be totally illegal to sell anything to Iran. And if this is spotted by the UN, the company would be shut down.

[@charleskatz2606]

@@rosssmith173 Yes but were not talking about large petrochemical pipes or something (I am thinking of that guy John Bull and the Supergun).I remember my first passport had those Cuba,North Vietnam/Korea exclusions.This is why Iran is a mess because everything has to be transhipped and they can't sell anything unless they have bags of cash since except for a small number of products they have no access to world's reserve currency US dollars.One day we will lose tat status and it will be a major sign of decline

[@rosssmith173]

@@charleskatz2606 The sanctions state, you cannot buy or sell anything from or to Iran. Except food and educational materials. If this video isn't pulled, this speaker company is in serious trouble for just this one transaction.

[@JohnJohnson-lv7dh]

As usual, Steve, another excellent report. Along with my prior request for you to review the Magico A1 would you please consider reviewing the Spendor Classic 1/2? Thanks.

[@snowpuppy77]

Like these speakers though I have not heard them yet. Open baffles in some ways are like comparing open back to closed headphones. They sound very open and without box smearing of bass like many box speakers.

[@torchbox]

Couldn’t help but notice the interconnects between the driver looked like 18 gauge “normal” speaker wires while the cables to speaker itself looked like Nordost Valhalla (?).

[@jlmain5777]

Modular speakers where you can change out the speakers and the crossovers. Veddy veddy Interesting Steve. Kind of like separates for speakers.

[@barbasour]

Good one Steve. I've been studying open baffle designs and been eyeing the Lampizator ones. has anyone heard any of Lampizator (Fikus Electric/Lukasz Fikus Designs) speakers?

[@bigjay1970]

Very smart system design!😎 I mean even with perfect sound people always want different at some point and with the modular design you can have different and the same at the same time!😝🤯

[@paulallen7848]

@@stopthefomo Judge much?

[@jismo7]

Open baffles sound so pure. You are not aware the sound is coming out of a box (of course). Which 15" woofers are they? I have some huge 7' OB speakers (see my pic) and also some H-frame dipole 15" subs (4 per side) which are flat down to c15Hz.

[@HenrikScheel_]

Do you know if the version with the Heil AMT has the same or sort of the same transient response as the Quad 2905 (which I had and loved)?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

I doubt it, but I will be reviewing another pure Audio project speaker in April.

[@mickywes3733]

Can someone help me understand why some of these designers place the mid tweeters in the middle and the second woofer above, at ear level or higher?

[@luisdiego22002]

Men and their dreams. Gotta love it.

[@mkshffr4936]

Big fan of OB. Did I hear correctly that they use series crossovers? That requires really carefully chosen drivers.

[@PureAudioProject.]

You are perfectly right 👍 Ze’ev

[@charleskatz2606]

How about a full review?

[@BlankBrain]

I wish you had asked Zev how they keep the back wave from interacting with the front wave. It seems that there should be nodes of doubling and cancelling.

[@gurdyman1]

The sides have the cancelling. Picture a figure 8 sound pattern vs a cardioid wrap around.

[@Josh442]

It looks like they have wings to extend the effective baffle width. As always with a dipole, there is some cancellation in the far field, though. He's used a lot of woofers! He must be using some kind of dipole equalization, too -- 6 dB/octave.

[@Scottlp2]

If you don’t want any interaction buy a sealed speaker (you can buy speakers in 2020 made with rock cabinets). The popularity of dipoles eg Maggie’s alone should tell you how popular dipoles are.

[@spider5895]

Hi Steve, can you do an interview / review of GS Research's range of open baffle speakers and let us know what you think? Thanks.

[@tormaid42]

No cabinet means these are easy to build yourself. There are even crossover kits you can buy.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

tormaid Cool, do it! Tell me how it goes [e-mail]

[@johnholmes912]

it also means wave-cancellation problems in most listening environments

[@donvito8652]

Hey Steve, I remember seeing this when you first did it, etc. but how about something more "plebian" and practicle like Caintuck Betsy's

[@lerrynhawke3375]

Ok what is that song/album please

[@ABC-rh7zc]

Smart business model!

[@thegroove2000]

Open baffle very interesting.

[@carlosbauza1139]

What are the similarities and differences between these "open baffle" speakers, as compared with Magnepans, which ARE also "open baffle"?

[@paulallen7848]

OB get you bass.

[@carlosbauza1139]

@@paulallen7848Free-air cone woofer mounting would produce bass cancellations, unless specific means were enabled to prevent nature's course.

[@myk1200s]

So Steve given the last few weeks or so the many different speaker reviews that you've done... Pure audio...... Cornwalls...... Even your latest one from the German engineer which one stands out the most to you and why?

[@dfurey9446]

Just heard them at ny audio show. I never, I mean never gave a second look at open baffles. I was blown away. First audio show I have been to. Got a tip for you guys, stop being snobs with all the smooth jazz and play some music that people listen to. Are manufacturers in business or just pandering to geriatric incels. Zeev was talking to someone and god forbid a hip hop track played, sounded great btw, you could see these guys were uncomfortable lol.

[@Aswaguespack]

An Audio “Buffet” of choices and combinations for adventurous audiophiles with deep pockets who seek that elusive “perfection” in a personal acoustic experience.

[@stileshumphrey4195]

I wish we could hear them.

[@scottlowell493]

Legacy audio Whisper

[@JBOsurf]

I'll take the KEF Blades in the background.

[@maxb.simonsen2459]

Why? Except for maybe selling them, and buying something else?

[@theejoeylee]

@@maxb.simonsen2459 I would use them as a SQ Reference for my DIY designs.

[@Carl-bd1rf]

I don’t know how those open back speakers could possibly sound good but hey, I’ve never auditioned any and I’ve been surprised before. 😜

[@FOH3663]

Box speaker or open baffle, either approach when well executed can be superb. They simply have different weaknesses that must be overcome. The open baffle can sound so good because the box's distortions that overlay upon the sound. 1.) Sound energy behind the driver should not come back out through the driver.... The delayed re-radiation of sound back through cone (and enclosure panels) is a significant issue with box speakers. Eliminating that latent energy re-emerging through the driver allows greater imaging and openness. This is one of a dipoles strengths. It's not subtle. 2.) The enclosure negatively affects the driver's movement... Removing the box so the ONLY force impacting the driver is the drive signal. The cone moves naturally, un-encumbered by the enclosure back pressure. The driver can track the complex signal dynamics more accurately and efficiently. So much amplifier power is wasted overcoming the back pressure of the box (easily 5/1, can be as much as 10/1). This dramatically lowers power/current ie., heat... thus eliminating the compression that can otherwise rob a system of "startle power". Also this dramatically lowers voice coil current, reducing harmonic distortion and intermod distortion. 3.) The BIGGEST advantage an open baffle has is the manner in which it operates in the room... Conventional wisdom would suggest the primary open baffle weakness would be in the bass. In reality that's likely it's strongest characteristic,... ie., bass definition, apparent speed and clarity of the bass. This is where a dipole really stands out, it doesn't excite room modes like a conventional design. Damn... again I didn't intend for this to be so long, Good luck

[@Carl-bd1rf]

FOH3663, hey everything you say sounds legit. Never really thought about it in those terms. I always thought good bass must come from a well engineered box. Curious though why main stream manufactures haven’t explored this avenue or at least some of the more respected ones.

[@Carl-bd1rf]

@Jim Mitchell We talking sex or speakers?😂

[@paulallen7848]

Commenting before listening and or understanding the principles involved in OB speakers tell us all we need to know about your opinions lol. You are arrogant and ignorant.

[@CaveyMoth]

It must be more difficult to position them perfectly in a listening space. You'd have to tie them just perfectly to the room.

[@janedoe8533]

VPI is behind this, RUN AWAY !!!

[@claypipkin]

what's wrong with VPI?

[@scottcarlon6318]

I never hear dynamic’s addressed in regards to open baffle speakers.

[@Labor_Jones]

as a novice I often come back watching over and over again... ... I grew up in the scrap buiz and I threw away mountains of amazing amps. now that i'm a hobo all i want are a couple sticks of dynamite and a sound that will KILL! _--- >> to me Open Baffle sounds like a Cheap means to enter an expensive class of Audio._

[@bujoun76]

Marvin Gershowitz Open baffle is the original loudspeaker system. And there is a great deal of science behind the tech. Try building your own open baffle speakers before dismissing the concept.

[@Jeton6]

those prices are fearsome but the concept is rapturously fascinating. the form factor also suggests the ability to make portable high end PA systems.

[@gurdyman1]

Been my experience that open baffle speakers have too much of a feedback issue for PA use. They sound great for home use, though. Should be OK for DJ work with limited mic use, though. Dave

[@Jeton6]

@@gurdyman1 thanks Dave, in truth I actually meant "portable hifi sound system", so I definitely appreciate your point.

[@paulallen7848]

Arrogant and ignorant response.

[@gurdyman1]

@@jim9930 A friend and I tried OB's for PA speakers once. Had a lot more feedback. You'd think the side cancellation would work well, but it didn't. It was horn loaded above 2 kHz.

[@theejoeylee]

I don't know why I waste my time torturing myself with these videos... I drive a $500 truck

[@TheUofAfan]

Just love the one your with my friend.

[@noelgrassy4278]

TheeJoeyLee “the snozzberries taste like snozzberries!”

[@theejoeylee]

@@noelgrassy4278 ? Huh

[@mickywes3733]

You can have good sound for almost nothing, if you want it.

[@kinglear5952]

I watch them so that I can bask in my vicarious joy at the consumer options of the filthy rich. Not

[@johnholmes912]

uneven cancellation in most listening rooms will be a real problem

[@jonathansturm4163]

Wowsers! Field coils are back. Whoda thunkit?

[@paulallen7848]

Those who understand Hi-Fi.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@paulallen7848 The speakers using field coils I have been familiar with date back to the very early days of loudspeakers. They were _not_ hi-fi. The field coil served two purposes; it generated the magnetic field, but it also was used as the filter choke in the power supply. This latter function meant that there was always a small, but noticeable mains hum from the speaker. Not the 50 or 60 Hz people expect, but double that (first harmonic).

[@konradherrmann3213]

💕👍🍾🇫🇷

[@CaribbeanGTR]

Crazy prices

[@paulallen7848]

Inexpensive compared to box designs of equal performance.

[@dilbyjones]

Can we go deeper into these... I’m sure you have, but, he’s saying it’s interchangeable... so...

[@carlwood7588]

I don't know why i always watch these videos expecting to hear sounds from the speakers or other equipment.We dont want to hear about it we want to hear it as well or are they just props

[@ashtontechhelp]

This question comes up a lot. You can't hear the speakers, you can only hear your own speakers, your own amp, your own room - because that's what you have in front of you. If you want to hear the speakers, ask a dealer to bring some round. I'm afraid that's the only way.

[@blipco5]

....."starting at four thousand"....."sixteen thousand"....."twenty thousand"....I also heard "very reasonable" somewhere in there. LOL.

[@bolsesolheim7469]

SAME SHIT TALK THE VOXATIV IS BLOODY OVERPRICED TOO I GET REALLY SICK FROM THIS SNAKE OIL CRAP

[@progressiveguy9959]

It seems as if many people call anything snake oil that they can't afford.

[@Mark-lq3sb]

@@bolsesolheim7469 POINT OUT THE SNAKE OIL you claim is here. I see different (proven) drivers and crossovers. You might not agree with the open baffle idea, but that's straight forward. You either like the sound that the open baffle design produces or you do not. They aren't "hiding" anything and claiming "something" that can't be proven. THE WAY YOU PRESENT YOURSELF COMES-ACROSS AS A PERSON WHO IS VERY UPSET BECAUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE THE EXTRA MONEY TO SPEND ON LUXURY ITEMS. I'll define the term luxury for you: Meaning things that are not necessary to sustain life. The fact is there are alternative audio systems that do not cost this much. Steve has reviewed many of these audio products, pay attention and stop your BITCHING !

[@billdunn8542]

A snake oil screamer strikes again. Using the term snake oil makes you sound ____! Stop using it, instead, make a cogent argument as to why it’s too expensive. Having such a strong opinion about the speaker, it would follow that you have extensive experience with them. What about their performance don’t you like? It’s called high end audio for a reason. The litmus test would be how it preforms compared to similarly priced speakers. Being an audiophile is about having fun. You are living at the most interesting time for audio gear. Never have you been able to get such good sound for your money. Never has the limits of audio reproduction been pushed to the limits as it is today. There is something out for everyone and every price point. Just have fun with it.

[@blipco5]

I have a pair of Speakerlab S3 speakers I built from a kit back in the day. I believe I built them for less than $300. I use an Adcom power amp and pre-amp, a Nikko FM tuner and a Rec-O-Cut turntable with an ESL tone arm. It's old but it'll belt out Grand Funk Railroad (the early years) or Leroy Anderson with aplomb. I could afford the speakers presented in this video but why would I want to?

[@inthegrooves]

Tower of power!

[@charleskatz2606]

No were talkin'!!

[@ColocasiaCorm]

Hey it’s Eric ripert

[@ColocasiaCorm]

11 months later... i'm getting into PAP quintet15 horn1

[@AdrianIII]

Got bass? (For $20K?)

[@paulallen7848]

Yes they have bass.

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

Why does a bit of wood and a couple of speakers cost minimum of £4000 why so expensive

[@jimbendtsen8841]

I just heard the prices. Bye...

[@PSKResearch]

Out of phase sound, especially low frequencies coming off the back & merging with the sound coming off the front is not a good idea. It's cancelling out or distorting the original sound. Lots of good & very bad sounding spots in the room. In a perfect room, with perfectly placed speakers, & the listener in the exact ideal spot it would work well, but how often will that happen in the real world? That's why we build speakers in a box... the back wave works with the rest of the speaker & the front wave instead of against it.

[@elishnave7059]

bass?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

eli shnave Bass? Yeah there’s bass but not big fat bass. It’s quick, taut, and textured

[@CarlVanDoren61]

For the price, Magnepan all the way!!

[@paulallen7848]

Not if you want real bass lol.

[@CarlVanDoren61]

@@paulallen7848 amzn.to/2lFm201 Trust me, all the bass needed and with clarity!!!

[@BrentLeVasseur]

That horn design is a rip off of the Ocean Way Audio horn designed by Allen Sides.

[@andrewgillis8572]

wow the design is Wilson on the cheap but why could the starter price not be less than $4K - Ohm Klipsch and Tekton would beat that

[@paulallen7848]

How would you know? Arrogant and ignorant statement!

[@Hippiekinkster]

SEAS Excel Crescendo tweaters are $347 each at Madisound. ScanSpeak Illuminator 4.5" mids $291/ea. SEAS Exotic 8" alnico woofer 8ohm $778/ea. 3-way design, 2nd or 3rd order crossovers, probably need 8 caps per side; mid-level polypropylene about $40 per... resistors 12 per side, get the Madisound wirewound at $0.75/ea. Inductors, 8 per side, depends on the inductance, but low-midlevel about $12/ea. 4 circuit boards, gold plated terminals, Litz wire, quick-connects etc... none of these items are top of the line. Then there's crossover design fee, unless you are DIY. Add it up. Notice there is ZERO profit here since you are building it all yourself. O, I forgot, speaker mounting plates and stands. Have fun!

[@andrewgillis8572]

@@Hippiekinkster that's a brilliant reply and yup an elegant frame which makes a concave line array effect would be a many hundreds of dollars job, as pure DIY (with a friend with a machining set & drill press) - your point, taken - next question , should not mounting plane be significantly wider than the driver in infinite baffle?

[@CaveyMoth]

This is really baffling technology...or lack thereof.

[@nemotronix0111]

Можно по русски ?

[@keithmoriyama5421]

Such a tiny motor on those large speakers---- JBL!

[@Audiojunkabus]

Life Styles of The Rich & Famous. John Darko must have hijacked Steve and his show.

[@mediascapes2011]

Darko is middle of the way stuff, Steve is similar

[@Audiojunkabus]

@@mediascapes2011 The sun is hot and water is wet

[@mediascapes2011]

@@Audiojunkabusi heard that is what was taught at the Trump University.

Cheap like cheese. in kit

[@jareknowak8712]

Open box have nothing in common with true sound reproduction. Not saying that they are not good.

[@FOH3663]

? I don't understand, care to elaborate?

[@paulallen7848]

Arrogant and ignorant. Instruments radiate front to back fool.

[@jareknowak8712]

@@paulallen7848 You do not understand how the sound wave meets the mic membrane, and how the singal should be reproducted in space. Thats the problem.

[@gurdyman1]

@@jareknowak8712 All I know is that I, as a professional (acoustic) musician, loved the natural sound of several open baffles I built during a 17 year period. Dave

[@FOH3663]

What is true sound reproduction?

[@martytoo]

I love everything but the price. I absolutely LOVE the idea but my money will go to my grandchildren's college fund and to charity. I would find splurging on these to be somewhat sinful. But that's just me. And did I say I love the idea of these speakers?

[@shinvergil]

What if because of your purchase the company will grow and then pay more for charity? Companies have employees that need to feed families too.

[@SLKAMG1]

martytoo very bible belt of you.

[@bolsesolheim7469]

RIGHT YOU ARE AUDIO GETS MORE RIDICULOUS FOR EVERY YEAR

[@Reyfox1]

The cost is what you can afford. Sinful? Not if you can afford it. It's your money to spend as you would like. But where I take issue when I read about the price of just about anything that people think is too expensive for "them", then it's not for you. I would love a mid-engine Corvette, but drive a 21year old VW 9 passenger van. But I don't complain about the price of anything. That's "life" that I can not afford these speakers. I live with what I have, and am quite happy...

[@Mark-lq3sb]

@@Reyfox1 Wait on that mid-engine Corvette. You never want to buy first year engineering. Maybe by then you'll have the money for that new Vette. Good luck.

[@316SILENTDEATH]

Open baffle speakers have flaws as well.cone stiffness vs nuance

[@paulallen7848]

Ignorant statement.

[@bootsarmstrong8421]

Steve, how about letting is HEAR the speakers instead of all the babbling????

[@jacobbrown1690]

bs

[@youtubegarbage7876]

Apartheid speakers

[@torntoadt.horntoadiii5483]

I'm confused. Here is a speaker made by Israelis (jews), which uses a Heil tweeter., sells to Iranians and Saudi Atabians and will probably never be available for jews (at a thrift store or a garage sale for less than 15 dollars/pair)? This is crazy!