What's With the Story of Elisha and the Bears?

[@TestifyApologetics]

For supporting passages, a na‘ar can designate a servant (Gen. 22:3), armor-bearer (Judges 9:54), king’s official (2 Kings 19:6), and a priest (1 Sam. 2:17).

[@MrCheesywaffles]

Thank you for posting references.

[@MapleBoarder78]

Good point with Moses misusing his power to bring water from the rock. I was a bit skeptical until you pointed that out. 👍🏼

[@RonaldDPotts1]

I thought Samson was a great example of that

[@paulchamberlain4810]

But might not the Lord have done that because the Israel nation needed water? He wasn’t going to let them die because of Moses’ disobedience? And we see the Lord judged Moses for what he did. We see no such judgment of Elisha.

[@arcguardian]

@@paulchamberlain4810 doesn't mean Elisha wasn't judged for it. I think it was approved by God, but I could be wrong.

[@nox567]

@@paulchamberlain4810 God didn't directly judge Samson either

[@a.39886]

Until you remember that everything that happened only could happen is if god will is actually wanted that to happen.

[@Michael-bk5nz]

I have to think that a crowd of at least 42 people taunting you seems less like harmless fun and more like a serious threat

[@Nic-ye2yz]

And they deserved to be mauled? ok lol

[@melissachandler6265]

I agree. The next chapter shows Elisha sends for a minstrel because he is not in the proper frame of mind to pray. He was angry. I like to think he learned from his anger that his words had power that God bestowed on him. When we next see him angry he call for the musician to get into a place of worship before he speaks. He ends up getting in God's presence and the Lord moves mightily. 2 Kings 3:14 & 15

[@FRN2013]

Well said! I would only add emphasis to the fact that the bears "mauled forty-two *of the* boys." There were more than 42! There could have been hundreds! Elisha's life was in danger.

[@truncated7644]

What do you think the video would look like of 2 bears being able to injure 42 young people? Why have Christians never filmed a version of this Bible episode? What would it look like?

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@truncated7644 same like how stalin never filmed himself killing 15 million people right?

[@truncated7644]

@@Tzimiskes3506 Exactly the same!

[@hangedman821]

@@truncated7644 What if the whole story is a story about the sun at the winter solstice? Why is Elisha baldy? For the same reason Samson loses his hair and strength. They both represent the sun....and their "hair" is the suns rays. The name Samson even means "Man of the sun".....the clue is in the name. As the sun plunges down to the tropic of Capricorn....the goat....aka GAZA (where Samson ended up)......they become baldy. Did you know that the dead in Egypt had to confess to FORTY TWO LESSER DEITIES (children). When the sun is at the tropic of Capricorn.....there is only one way to go.....back UP to the tropic of Cancer......that's why the kids shout go up baldy. But the sun doesn't confess to them.....the sun lives on....... I cannot believe there are adults who believe the story is history.. .....it's the equivalent of kids believing in Santa.

[@a.39886]

@@truncated7644 .Until you remember that everything that happened only could happen is if god will is actually wanted that to happen.

[@Lord9Genesis]

When Elijah left, he left Elisha without a mentor or covering thus leaving him with a "bald head." The young priests were insulting Elisha for Elijah's absence while making fun of the story of how Elijah seemed to have disappeared.

[@logosimian]

It is a rare courage that intends its puns. You have earned a subscription.

[@stutteringdisciple1919]

Great vid. Was waiting on this one 😂

[@gogogatchet]

Michael Heiser did a video on this a while ago, what you said is spot on but he adds some details like curious details of cosmic geography that reinforce the idea that these are unmarried male priests mocking Elijah and telling him to come worship in their temple. The number 42 also held priestly significance, so it's likely a figurative number rather than literal.

[@a.39886]

.-Until you remember that everything that happened only could happen is if god will is actually wanted that to happen.

[@Pamela.B]

Elisha

[@Yonah_144]

When you mock someone, you are mocking their soul, their existence, and God. That laugh will be your last as well.

[@paulchamberlain4810]

I agree it is possible that no one actually died, and “little youth“ probably means people at least in their mid teens. Note that in second kings 2:24 they are called children - yeledim. I think this distinction is because in the Hebrew Bible when someone is perceived as being in a state of vulnerability they are often called a child. For example, the language difference between Hagar and the Lord when Hagar and 17 year old Ishmael left Abraham. Ishmael is a child to Hagar but a youth to the Lord. The Lord had told Abraham that Ishmael would be OK. In this passage, they were “little youth“ when they were a threat, but when the Bears came they became “children“, no longer a threat, even vulnerable now. I think a mob of 40+ teenagers chanting a phrase over and over against someone could be a threat. Mobs plus repetitive chanting against an individual can be very dangerous. Think back to our “summer of love“ of a couple years ago. I disagree that there is evidence that he was wrong in doing this. The Lord Jesus came in humility to die as the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. He did this when Israel was no longer an autonomous nation. Elisha was a prophet under the theocratic kingdom. A more proper analogy would be the actions of the Lord Jesus Christ when he comes again to set up his kingdom when he will destroy his enemies. The prophets tell this in graphic detail. Yes, the Lord is kind and today is the day to repent. But when Lord Jesus comes again as King to set up his kingdom what the prophet Elisha did will look like child’s play (no pun intended). Today is the day of repentance. The Lord is kind, but as the saying goes, beware the wrath of a patience man.

[@Ruperdepuup]

I absolutely agree, Paul. We sometimes fall prey to a sort of "soft apologetics", where we try to downplay the severity of some things in the Bible in order to make it more acceptable to a modern audience. The problem with this approach is that it doesn't cut to the deeper problem: We westeners may not think an insult deserves such a severe judgement, but 21st century Western sensibilities aren't the standard by which everything is to be judged. In this case, the REAL answer to the atheist objection is: "Yes, Gods judgement can be severe. Repent, lest you too fall under his judgement."

[@truncated7644]

@@Ruperdepuup I respect you owning it, but how does that square with God being unchanging and completely just? Why do today's sinners who never repent get treated differently in this life?

[@michaelgreen1021]

I'm saved by believing in what Jesus did for me. Amen

[@TristanHayes]

@@truncated7644 He didn't change. There are instances of bad things happening to bad men in the old testament and in the world today, there are instances of bad things happening to good men in the old testament and in the world today, there are examples of good things happening to bad men in the old testament and in the world today, and there are examples of good things happening to good men in the old testament and in the world today. Even the Psalmist often laments the fact that wicked often triumphed in this life, but put his hope in God's justice nevertheless. Christians hope for justice in the life that is to come, this world we presently live in is disordered, fallen, according to the Christian world view

[@hangedman821]

@@truncated7644 However......have you ever considered it's stories about the stars? For example.......are there two bears in the night sky? Is there a unicorn in the skies above? Job 39:9 KJV tells us that the unicorn resides by a crib. Look at the surrounding verses.....God is questioning Job on his knowledge of the stars. Is there a unicorn above?.......YES! .....MONOCEROS! Is it next to a"crib"?........YES!.....the star cluster PRAESEPE is also known as the "crib"!

[@John14-6...]

Excellent explanation! I knew about the age translation but never heard the priest angle. So it seems we have some young adults mocking Elijah more about him being a prophet of God rather than his bald head. The bald head thing was just one of their insults not the reason he cursed them

[@Lord9Genesis]

You can also interpret it as Elisha not having Elijah's covering anymore rendering him "bald"...

[@petery6432]

That's an interesting point about how people can misuse divine power. It does seem plausible that someone could misuse divine authority as well.

[@stephenrice2063]

1. Elijah wasn't taken up to heaven in a chariot, but in a whirlwind. (2 Kings 2:11) The chariot was an escort. 2. Na`ar refers to 1. youths (from infants to early twenties or so), 2. people in a subordinate role (servants, low-ranking personnel, etc.), and 3. (by extension of #2) people who are considered insignificant or low status. (Note that it's na`ar, not na'ar: ayin, not aleph. Thanks!) In 1 Sam 2:17, it refers to unworthy priests; in 2 Kings 19:6, it refers royal servants (in a deprecating tone). 3. Likewise, qatan has a wide range of meanings, but I would suggest that here it means "insignificant, worthless." So I think we're talking about worthless nobodies, not small children. 4. Baqa` isn't a scratch or boo-boo. They were shredded, and not in the "buff" sense. 5. Elisha cursed them in the name of Yahweh, but I suspect the bears were God's idea. The imprecation was probably something like, "May Yahweh deal with you according to your wickedness!" If he had invoked the bears, I would expect the specific fulfillment of the curse to be noted. (Yes, this is more conjectural.) 6. In any case, this is the same kind of thing as Uzzah ran into: egregious disrespect for God (or his representative) led to a swift response. This isn't a cranky prophet's tantrum but a devastating comeback to lèse-majesté.

[@deadalivemaniac]

Very nice. I appreciate you admit to conjecture even if I disagree with it. Otherwise, spot on.

[@Pamela.B]

See Leviticus 26:21-22

[@stephenrice2063]

@@Pamela.B Aimed at Israel as a people, but the basic point is sound.

[@sylviesherman4797]

Enjoyed the puns. Great video. Good research.

[@anonmouse7481]

This is a great video. I was always thinking about this passage and it bothered me significantly before this video!

[@wahwuhRAW]

Thanks for this video, I've had this question for a bit but it oddly never bothered me much. I just felt that it could be answered like all my other questions similar to this have been. I also want to note, I took notice on the editing change! I'm greatful for the new change of video style, it feels fresher compared to the old one. Look forward to seeing your editing skills get gradually better!

[@TestifyApologetics]

Thanks! Grlad you like the newer style. I'm never quite sure how people are going to feel about changes

[@davidadamovic1950]

Dr Heiser has a video mentioning a great article from a scholar that went in-depth about this story

[@shockthetoast]

Do you recall the title of that video?

[@davidadamovic1950]

@@shockthetoast m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXrUiIh8es-tetE Here's the link, cheers! 😁

[@shockthetoast]

@@davidadamovic1950 Thank you!

[@Hhjhfu247]

Love your channel

[@joshhansen4883]

Great use of the Scriptures to help one understand! God bless!

[@leidaozolina1679]

Thank you! Finally clarification!

[@Derek_Baumgartner]

Sadly, people who want to interpret a passage a certain way (because they don't like it, or the opposite: they think their interpretation is cool, which I don't think is the case in this insistence) will bearly accept charitable interpretations of passages over their personal interpretation. We can have a bear of a time dealing with our own prejudices, as well. Nonetheless, there's clear paws that should be taken to consider whether specific interpretations hit the nail on the head, or if they're simply 'likely true' but not 'necessarily true.' And bearing some solid evidence in videos like this helps to demonstrate passages in the Bible can often have a greater context than what a surface-level (or, worse, hostile) reading would allow. So, fur a response video, you did a great job in delving deeper into a passage (and idea, namely of divine power being abused by those blessed with it) that many people have bearly scratched the surface of: thank you for this! Oh, and one more thing: bear.

[@TestifyApologetics]

Fur real tho

[@FRN2013]

So many puns are bruin in my mind now

[@truncated7644]

@@TestifyApologetics Ok, funny bear jokes. But given that you believe this story actually happened, if 42 muslims who shouted mean things at your pastor were all hit (not fatally, of course) by two out-of-control semi tractor trailers, would you be posting jokes about it? I am not trying to be a killjoy, I just don't think you really take this story seriously (nor should you). Or maybe the passage of over 2,000 years changes things....

[@a.39886]

@@truncated7644 Until you remember that everything that happened only could happen is if god will is actually wanted that to happen...

[@truncated7644]

@@a.39886 And if that is the case, then you are cool with it. Is that correct?

[@flimsyjimnz]

Bravo! Ironic that atheists implore believers not to blindly believe scripture, yet expect us to accept their jaundiced interpretation of it. Also, it appears Elisha had recently inherited Elijah's anointing -so Elisha was a rookie.

[@Gutslinger]

Makes more sense to me now.

[@mary_samuelson]

Wow, thanks for clearing that up! I always found that passage a little disconcerting.

[@markhorton3994]

I don't buy that those Juvenile delinquents were priest's of the golden calf. I think that they were idle youth. We are told that 42 were mauled not how many weretaunting. There could have been a lot more. It takes time to attack 42 people the ones furthest from the bears must have tried to get away. The Bible cites a specific phrase used. As another video on the subject says that appears to be culturally significant Those boys, whoever they were and whatever age, were not just teasing. A group of 42 or more was a serious threat to Elisha's life. What Jesus actually did when threatened by a mob was walk through them unnoticed. Elisha couldn't do that.

[@FRN2013]

Yup, I'd need to see more evidence that they were priests. But the rest of the video's points were spot-on.

[@RVMTube]

This actually makes a fair point for how consistently reckless humans are when given power. It shows again and again that we make for horrible masters and are very cruel judges. When Jesus came, holding that divine power and set the perfect example of behaviour and self control, we went and killed him... His patience and love, know no bounds and we are tremendously blessed to be given the opportunity to even brush against it.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

William Paley is my homeboy! his natural theology is absolute gold!

[@TestifyApologetics]

Paley is the dude.

[@jebmassaro7370]

Why can't this passage simply be a fulfillment of the covenant curses of Leviticus 26:21-22? The prophet is "as God" before men (Exodus 7:1). To insult the prophet is to insult God. The children insulted God by disrespecting his prophet(s), so they died by wild beasts. God's deferring punishment and showing mercy in most cases of insult does not preclude Him from exercising His right to punish immediately.

[@Gutslinger]

I've been confused and wondering about this ever since I heard Joe Rogan bring it up on his podcast roughly a couple of years ago. I even went back and read that passage at the time, and still wasn't sure how to interpret that one in the grand scheme of things. Lol

[@TestifyApologetics]

Yeah I almost wished I used the Rogan clip for context but oh well.

[@talitha4071]

I think this video might help you. It's a different kind of interpretation, you might find it interesting kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZDHe4h5oZaCn7c

[@Weavster_05]

“More lame puns are a-HEAD.” Please tell me that was intentional

[@TestifyApologetics]

Serendipity. I enjoyed hearing it during the edit though.

[@FRN2013]

More puns are _bruin_ in my head.

[@gerryquinn5578]

This is an excellent explanation of the passage to start with, although it needlessly goes off topic somewhat.

[@Jim-Mc]

Are people like the thinking atheist actually unaware that people have different languages, history and culture? Did they sleep through 7th grade social studies? Why would anyone doubt this was the intended context of the story? I honestly don't get it.

[@davidstrelec610]

They don't care about any of it their goal is to bash the bible as much as possible

[@hiddenrambo328]

A foreshadowing of the two witnesses and how they will operate. The two witnesses are not popular Rev 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will gloat over them, and will celebrate and send one another gifts, because these two prophets had tormented them. Because they're not popular people want to hurt them and feel empowered to try (like people do now) Rev11:5 If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed. Which seems to be a reference to Elijah 2 Kings 1:10 Elijah answered the captain, "If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men." And fire came down from heaven and consumed the captain and his fifty men. Calling fire from heaven = Fire proceeds from their mouths aka fire (Or bears) goes out because of their mouth, they call upon the Lord and he provides the "fire". With all that in mind my guess is those 42 wanted to do more than just name calling.

[@nevermind824]

Thank you

[@adamstewart9052]

I sent this video to him on Twitter/X under a recent post he was making with his video but I'm not sure if he was open enough to watch it.

[@lsixty30]

What business does a Pentecostal have making so much sense ?! 😂❤

[@KawaiiMiri]

Thanks

[@MatthewFearnley]

I’m not sold on the Priests/Servants interpretation - I’d put much more trust the NET’s carefully considered use of “young boys” - but I think most of what you said here was spot on.

[@sgorgardr227]

42 is number of royal students for spiritual leadership (education for priests), it is 100% pagan idol servants, in historical context at that time they took 42 of royal kids for education. Look IslamCritiqued video on this, it's... so much in depths on what was going on there.

[@MatthewFearnley]

@@sgorgardr227 Thanks, an interesting video - definitely some stuff there I'd not heard before.

[@Silvia_Arienti]

The Talmud actually explains that Elisha was punished by God for this: *Sanhedrin 107b:16* The Sages taught: Elisha fell ill with three illnesses: One illness was due to the fact that he incited bears to attack and eat children; and one was due to the fact that he pushed Gehazi away with two hands and caused him to despair of atonement; and one was the illness from which he died, as it is stated: "And Elisha was fallen ill of his illness from which he was to die", indicating that he had previously suffered other illnesses.

[@dotlaroc82]

If it was a misuse of power then it would have been taken away after. Moses situation was different. His heart wasn’t right when striking that rock.

[@michaelbabbitt3837]

FYI: 'double portion' only means Elisha inherited Elijah's anointing as heirs received double portions.

[@hglundahl]

Here is the Challoner comment: [24] : This curse, which was followed by so visible a judgment of God, was not the effect of passion, or of a desire of revenging himself; but of zeal for religion, which was insulted by these boys, in the person of the prophet; and of a divine inspiration: God punishing in this manner the inhabitants of Bethel, (the chief seat of the calf worship,) who had trained up their children in a prejudice against the true religion and its ministers.

[@DanielApologetics]

👏👏👏

[@Skibbityboo0580]

I honestly think that everyone takes this story WAY too seriously. It is OBVIOUSLY a boogie man tale to remind children to respect their elders. It was probably a tall tale heard by everyone in that area, so they decided to throw it in the book.

[@hglundahl]

7:22 Two key differences, that go together. 1) Christ was preparing for a world wide, not nation bound, discipleship, (starting in a Roman Empire without legally endorsed Molochism) 2) which usshered in the "age of grace". By contrast, 1) Elisha (and Joshua) were preparing for and defending the fidelity of exactly one nation (in a very hostile and evil environment) 2) which happened in the "age of the law". It was a harsh law that said that a virgin who voluntarily lost virginity while not yet married and living in her father's house should be stoned, but it served a specific purpose in a specific condition: 1) keeping the genealogy of Our Lord clean (four women in it have some disapproval, and one of them, Athalia, is not even mentioned) 2) in a neighbourhood where both Babylonians and Canaaneans served (among other things) false goddesses part of the service of which was making oneself a prostitute. In Babylon, temple prostitution was the legal way to lose virginity, which one needed to do _before_ marrying.

[@hglundahl]

Obviously, the sons of Zebedee, who earned a rebuke that day, were not quite sensitive to the changed circumstances.

[@allisonlail5777]

They weren’t kids though lol

[@truncated7644]

@Testify, if they were all 6-12 year old children, would that change your belief in the resurrection or God's nature in any meaningful way?

[@TestifyApologetics]

You commented 3 times on one video. I appreciate the algorithm boost and all but maybe condense? No it wouldn't effect my belief in the resurrection or God's nature it might make me question how I'd interpret the Old Testament. I might take a position similar to Greg Boyd's or Randall Rauser's but the hypothetical doesn't matter since I'm rather convinced of my interpretation

[@truncated7644]

@@TestifyApologetics I thought the questions were different enough, no one likes long posts.... I guess this kind of hermeneutic really troubles me.

[@TestifyApologetics]

@@truncated7644 no worries I don't have time to get to them all. But this is a theme found in multiple places of abusing divine authority.

[@truncated7644]

@@TestifyApologetics Condensed to two posts for your reading enjoyment.

[@notofthischurch2822]

Elisha does not misuse anything. Only by keeping in mind that these children were from "Jericho" and not "Bethel." Jericho was the city whose leaders challenged the authority of Elisha because they challenged the ascension of Elijah. The meaning behind the fatal mauling of the forty and two children by the two she-bears is to signify the eventual death of Jericho, as children, within any social or cultural setting embody the future of that people, society, or culture. The death of those children speaks to faith held in the bosom of their fathers, in that, Jericho was a city that had long died in the sight of the LORD. So, Elisha does on misuse anything. All that he committed to those children, as unto the city of Jericho, Elisha did in truth as Elisha did not seek to elevate himself. Elisha only sought to do what was unto the LORD's will. And no, for the simple, ain't no God gonna call you to take the life of anyone. So don't use Elisha that you might plead temporary insanity before the judge: YOU ARE GOING TO JAIL AND YOU'RE GOING TO HELL. Throughout the whole of Ezekiel 18 does the LORD seek to impress on Israel --and therefore the whole of the earth -- that He wishes only for the unrighteous to repent. And for any man to take the life of another, talking about "God sent me to harm you" has nothing in the way of either the LORD or the FATHER.

[@warrior_of_the_most_high]

How do you know they were from Jericho?

[@ivanalexander7]

​@@warrior_of_the_most_highthanks for your response. There was no reason for the children to have come from Bethel. The reason Scripture gives mention to Bethel is to demonstrate the extent of Jericho's fallen state, given the children of Jericho also covered that great distance as had Elisha just to mock the LORD's servant.

[@winthrop1177]

So the Bible that you have says all of that in context, or says something different why would you consider it a holy book?

[@MuhammadsMohel]

What happens if you aren't mocking BUT pointing out that when you were an atheist, coincidentally enough, you had the same stage of receding hairline as Stephen from Rationality Rules and you used the same "side shave" techniques to hide the balding?

[@ChokeArtist411]

This video is emblematic of the intellectual vice that is apologetics. The gymnastics at play could earn an olympic gold medal.

[@angelmapping6086]

Since you have been covering old testament passages, why don't you make a video about Numbers 15:32-15:36 where a man is collecting wood on the Sabbath and God commands Moses to stone the man. Atheists say that God's command is unjust, and the death penalty is too much for something like that

[@TestifyApologetics]

Good suggestion!

[@truncated7644]

Elisha supposedly received a double portion of Elijah's spirit and this story is told in part to demonstrate it. If something like that can be quantified and multiplied, is it based on a relationship with Yahweh, or is it more like stories of magic and wizards with varying amounts of power? I can't get my mind around the claim that God's power can be invoked by other beings to do things that are inconsistent with our understanding of God's nature as revealed by Jesus. Would Elisha having access to a super-human power to do supernatural things God may not desire be any different than the Bible's description of Satan? Sunday school always taught me that it was children, so it is hard to get past that. But let's assume they were young adults. Like other humans, they were shaped in large part by the culture they grew up in. Wouldn't you have to assume all 42 had sufficient information, yet decided they liked other gods better than Yahweh, wanted to be their own god, wanted to sin, etc. for this punishment to be just? If you grant that God is perfect, then he unleashed no more violence on them than what was perfectly necessary. I know my Christian friends can define God's holy nature and his sufficient moral reasons to be more than adequate to justify this, but my simple ape-like brain can envision something so much less terrible. Why can't Yahweh?

[@TestifyApologetics]

That's comment number 4. Again thanks for the boost and all but it seems like a lot. So what about Jesus being tempted to abuse his power? Or Samson? Or Moses? Maybe when God delegates he really delegates, at least per the narratives. Even the Corinthian church was rebuked by Paul for misusing spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 14

[@truncated7644]

@@TestifyApologetics Samson tying 300 foxes together was probably the first pebble in my shoe from long, long ago. It sounded like a bad superman story. Other than Jesus, who in the narratives is God, the others such as Moses, strike me (pun intended) as the same.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@truncated7644 what are you even ranting on about?

[@truncated7644]

@@Tzimiskes3506 Ranting? I am asking questions regarding humans being given agency over divine power with the ability to use God's power to do things outside of God's will. I can't wrap my mind around it. Since it is God's power, how can it do wrong? @Testify calls it delegation, but I don't think that overcomes ultimate responsibility. If I delegate authority to an employee and they do something bad with the authority I delegated, ultimately I am responsible. What don't you understand about that? And why would you view such a question as ranting?

[@kookeluv]

Spin Spin Spin

[@TestifyApologetics]

beware of bears

[@jesusistheonlypowerful6017]

18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” Luke 10:18-20 Let us rejoice in the purpose why Jesus gave his life and why God always offering mercy, is to put the names of many on his book. Not because of supernatural power, rather this power is only to be used to proclaim and people know the way to heaven, which is Jesus Christ! To love your brethren and pray for your enemies, Those are the true weapons we need, those are the everyday we need to overcome the devil! Matthew 7:22-23 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

[@AbecedariusRex]

Isn't the story metaphorical? The shebears are the Assyrians.? The 43 are the districts of Israel?

[@harveywabbit9541]

Ancient Israel only existed in the constellations. This is where we find the two she bears aka Ursa major and Ursa minor.

[@AbecedariusRex]

@@harveywabbit9541 I don't fully comprehend your response but it sounds intriguing. Why were the two constellations called "the bears"? Ursa maior and ursa minor? Were they not called the "Great wain" & "Little wain"?

[@harveywabbit9541]

@@AbecedariusRex See Hebrew Mythology or Science of the Bible, by Milton Woolley. FYI Most Jews still use the mazzaroth/zodiac.

[@michaelgreen1021]

Are there bears in Israel?

[@capedcrusader1489]

there were, not anymore...

[@japexican007]

Don’t mock God’s prophets (who happen to be bald)

[@sgorgardr227]

Children and kids, moreover youth, are defienetly not sinnless. Elisha cursed them, then it was up to God what He's going to to, He saw that fit - and He did it. Bulling is not condned by God, it seems. I see His punishments fit. We need to be adult on this topic, there are alot of these things in Old Testament (people didn't had chance to repent to Jesus at that time), instead of awing at each of them we should understand the principle - God can and will punish, it doesn't prove He does not extst anyway, i don't care that "it seems rough" (for people at that cultural context, if you don't kill/hurt/threat or stop me - i won't stop, and you don't mind/can't do anything about it, powerless, weak). IslamCritiqued has a GREAT-great-great video on this topic. These things don't prove that He doesn't exist, His anger eventually will get everyone who is worth it, and at best what you can prove is that you really-really should be right about Him not existing, otherwise your luck will end on your (all of us) deathbed.

[@lazarpetrovic1671]

Tearing children apart is in no way a fitting punishment, if someone else did the same thing and they didn't belive in god, you would call them evil

[@sgorgardr227]

@@lazarpetrovic1671 No, it depends on the story. It's a biblical story, that isn't written there with no purpose. There are other mythological stories that are gruesome, yet that alone doesn't make them bad. If God decided to do that - He can. What you miss is, it was not done by some people, it was done miraculously. What is a life essentially for God? If christianity is true, then you don't just cease to exist when you die, you simply lose form. And then, what is a child for God? If He knows that it will grow into H*tler, then perhaps there is a reason to prevent that. Problem is, when He intervain - you complain, when He doesn't, you still complain. For God there is no children/adults, or killing. He can decide what to do, however you like it or not.

[@lazarpetrovic1671]

@@sgorgardr227 so in other words, god get's a pass because he's god and doesn't value anyone or anything, and your logic means that someone who doesn't value other people's lives can do whatever they want with no concoquence

[@lazarpetrovic1671]

@@sgorgardr227 and when was the last time god prevented child grape?

[@sgorgardr227]

@@lazarpetrovic1671 What do you mean God gets a pass, HE IS NOT HUMAN. When creation kills creation it's called a sin of murder. When Creator annihilate physical body of His creation, it's His decree. You're emotional westerner and you're not psycologically mature enough to be talking on such topics. In my "logic" God can play God, He's not human. People can't. Or say that God wants that, they also can't. Like Hamas did, they don't know it, it's their agenda.

[@acts837kjv4]

I think that the 42 children represent 42 months of tribulation for Israel also known as Jacobs trouble, remember Jesus when speaking of little children said of such is the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of God is a kingdom of peace, joy and righteousness in the Holy Ghost which the children of Israel rejected when they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and for this cause is the great tribulation otherwise known as Jacob,s trouble and we know that Jacob is Israel, I believe that as Elijah was caught up to heaven we who believe in Jesus will be raptured and then the bear aka Satan will be unleashed on the children of the Kingdom for rejecting their Messiah, as judgment must start at the house of God and then the rest of the world will suffer.

[@andrhof01]

There’s no reason to assume the translation “little children” is incorrect, the fact is the word Hebrew word “Qatan” does mean little as we can see from 2Samuel 12:3 referring to the parable of a poor man who had but one “little” (qatan) ewe lamb. And the Hebrew word “naar” can refer to very young children including infants, as we can see from Exodus 2:6 which refers to Moses when he was an infant saying, “the babe (naar) wept”. The children might have been between the ages of 10 and 12 and still been incredibly wicked. Very young children around this age have been known on occasion to do unimaginable things so that they were tried in a court of law as adults. God’s judgement upon them through Elisha might well have been justified, or it might be that he ought not to have misused his divine gift, or his life might have been in danger from them especially if any of them carried stones, knives or other weapons.

[@FRN2013]

Again, Solomon and Joseph were referred to by the same word as young adults. But even if you're correct, there were _more than_ 42 of the youths. There could have been hundreds. The Bible only gives the number of those who were "mauled."

[@andrhof01]

@@FRN2013 I agree that the word can refer to young adults, and I also agree that there were likely more than 42 mockers, nothing I said denies this. I just see no problem at all with the translation “little children”. I’ve never seen conclusive proof that there are any errors in the King James Bible and continue to discover great answers to claims that there are.

[@christianity4320]

Stop coping u joke. I hate when people add to it cuz ure emberassed. the fact is they were most likely teens and bullies who got what they deserved just like on discord

[@timmeeyh6523]

its just a clown show with all these prophets

[@thepanda1044]

A group of kids laugh at a bald man. So god had them destroyed. But he loves you.

[@sjl197]

Cool, so a benevolent loving God who supposedly provides the power for one select man to do nasty things against his enemies then does nothing if he doesn’t agree or finds it excessive, got it.

[@philipps6032]

Third!

[@Rolando_Cueva]

2:22 aw man, no hebrew script? i wanted to look it up.

[@editsofawesomeness]

Great video Eric! I only disagree with you on the notion that the ESV and KJV (and some others) translate the passage wrongly, and on the idea that Elisha might have been unjustified in a misuse of the prophetic powers granted to him. That's because in all other instances, there are consequences of this misuse of power. Samson certainly did wrong things, but he never misused the power God gave him. Moses hit the rock instead of speaking to it, but he paid the price for it and was not allowed into the promised land. We read of nothing like that after Elisha does this thing. When Jesus says that He could call angels, it seems clear to me He is only talking of His ability, not His nature, for if He would have actually done so, He would have gone against the wishes of the Father. God bless you (all)! For the people who want to do some further reading on the topic, Answers in Genesis has a really great article on it: answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/elisha-little-children-and-the-bears/

[@TestifyApologetics]

Thanks for the feedback. I think Moses definitely misused his power and Samson was a pretty bloody guy, probably over the top. Jesus was certainly tempted to misuse his divine authority so I think the concept brought out by Boyd is likely. If it wasn't a genuine temptation then the text makes no sense. Just something to think about but I get no one is going to agree with 100% of my opinions here.

[@editsofawesomeness]

@@TestifyApologetics It's always good to exchange thoughts on these topics, thanks for the video!

[@julieamos86]

JP Holding has a good explanation at his KZbin channel tekton tv. Elisha and the Two Bears -- Retooned, v2 tektontv Actually there's lots of good sensible replies to what he calls funny atheists there. And on his apologetics site tektonics.

[@julieamos86]

That should have read, Fundy atheists not funny, though......hmmm.