What's Wrong With Stock Plugins? ReaComp ReaVisited

In which I finally get around to sharing the Fabulous Fake Feedback Trick, and take a look at some compressor release curves.
Here's my previous ReaComp video: you might want to watch this first.
• What's Wrong With Stoc...
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[@Mansardian]

I just said to my wife: After all those years/decades of audio engineering, reading and learning all the science behind the curtain (and I really mean science!), Dan Worrall's Reacomp-videos were the first videos that really impressed me. I dare to say I know a lot about audio processing but somehow Dan seems to be able to teach things that I haven't been aware of before, and he does so in such a calm, relaxed way that those videos just leaves you totally fascinated. You want to TRY THINGS OUT IMMEDIATELY, now that you saw the light...

[@Hermiel]

Totally with you on this. Dan consistently gets me thinking about old things in new ways. It's a refreshing change for this jaded enginerd.

[@jacquepierregee]

[@abrotherinchrist]

Yes, his videos actually make me want to fire up Reaper and get cracking at new ideas.

[@C0D3O]

there are no good videos on working with sound. all of them are just plugin advertisements

[@one-eye1721]

The Reaper folks are always listening to user feedback and release updates very often. The put out a world-class DAW for obscenely cheap, and they care what they users think. Good people.

[@gulagwarlord]

If they can fix the windows 95 look for a lot of it, I would try it out.

[@RolandDeschain1]

@@gulagwarlord The basic look is one of the reasons it is so light on CPU usage. Putting in third-party plug-ins with pretty graphics greatly increases the processing. And you can download themes to make it prettier, if it's that important to you.

[@gulagwarlord]

@@RolandDeschain1 I just looked into it, that's awesome. I mostly do midi based edm stuff and currently use ableton but I like the idea of being able to run more tracks because I have to freeze a lot in Live. Thanks for the help. Cheers.

[@kernelpickle]

@theeverlastingspiral I think the reason that it hasn’t been “fixed” is because it’s one of the things that makes it unique, and in a world of generic compressors and clones of classic hardware that are emulated with varying results-having a unique quirk is one way plug-in can earn it’s place in your toolbox. The other way is being one of those idiot proof plugs you can throw on every single track, and have it sound better immediately, regardless of the differences between them. The default compressor plug-in for most DAWs tend to be the most generic and forgettable comps around, and when you haven’t built up a solid collection of plug-ins, you tend to use it for everything and get more mileage out of it, because it’s all you’ve got. Once you have a ton of them, then you start to treat them more like you did the presets for the jack of all trades compressor you started with. There are a ton of plugs I’ve collected to that do one really interesting thing, which is what I set it to do by default whenever I load it up, and then I don’t have to fiddle around too much, except for making a few minor tweaks. I’m sure that there are plugs in my collection that could pull double duty and I could reduce the overall number I load up in my DAW, but I prefer the variety, and know that when I look over my channel strips on a project I haven’t opened in awhile, and see one plug or another, I know what it’s doing by the name alone-so there’s no time wasted trying to remember or take notes about why I did something the way that I did. My preference is to use stuff with jarring and noticeable, rather than subtle or transparent results, because if I go too far, I can always put it on a parallel bus and mix it back in with the original signal.

[@miquelmarti6537]

Somebody tried to explain me that trick about 15yrs ago. I finally understood it. Thank you Dan!

[@WrestleTheDecibel]

Dan’s voice is so wonderfully soothing that he could literally announce the end of the world and we’d be like, “Ahhhh thanks mate...”

[@toitoitoy]

It has a natural organic compressor in it)

[@balamde687]

xD you're absolutely right! he should have announced, explained and managed this whole issue of Covid, and we would be enjoying our vacation on the beach, not in the living room. haha two thumbs up!

[@mal2ksc]

And then the wubwub at the end comes in like a buzzsaw.

[@ATAMusic]

As someone said. “ReaComp is not a compressor. It’s a compressor engine. “ Good job, Dan! You’re a genius! Thanks for the tutorial!

[@andreyaek2266]

I’m so grateful for this! It’s not often anymore that I learn completely new things about compression, EQ or the other fundamental music production tools from the internet. Not that I have nothing to learn, that’s far from the truth, it’s just the web is so overcrowded with “compression 101” material which I’m way beyond, and it seems hard to find more in depth learning material at all, let alone if this quality. I feel like I’ve learned just as much from just these two ReaComp videos as I did in the last two years of experimenting and working in the studio. Thanks a lot for sharing all of this great knowledge.

[@ricgus3]

I feel like i am watching a kurtzagt video but on music production! Amazing

[@Wayne_Robinson]

Thanks for demonstrating that. It's so flexible and the results sound great but I also appreciate you demonstrating the role of other compressors too. Visualizing the compression parameters was very helpful.

[@tsobf242]

I'm an amateur synthesizer developer (for fun) and there's always been a lot of mystery about what the secret sauce is in professional vsts, but your videos unmask a lot of that for me. Thank you!

[@abrotherinchrist]

Man, this was the best tutorial I've ever watched on compression. It really made me think about how I might be able to combine compressors for more specific effects, or how I might want to just try something more simple in some cases. I hear people saying that you should stack compressors all the time but they don't ever explain why or how to do it. I've used my ears to find things I like, for example, just recently I put Smart:Comp on an acoustic guitar first and then added ProC after. It sounded better than just ProC alone. Neither were over the top, and with a bit of subtle multiband excitement from Izotope's exciter I barely needed any EQ except to control the low end a bit with ProMB. In general I don't actually use Reaper's stock plugins anymore. I find they don't actually sound that good compared to FF. It's definitely worth it to buy a good set of core mixing plugins. FF is indispensable.

[@Audiomishran]

If there's an award for making youtube videos. This guy bags them all.

[@bigchefkoch1]

Fantastic video as always. About ReaComp's release curve: It actually can reproduce the more common downwards-bent release curve. The trick is to set the threshold (or knee) such that the compressor never quite stops compressing (even if it's only by 0.1 dB). Somehow the compressor releases differently when going from high gain reduction to low gain reduction compared to going from high gain reduction to no gain reduction. Unless one is compressing drums, uninterrupted gain riding is more realistic anyways. My feeling is that in the audio example you showed, ReaComp was mostly reacting to the low end. My guess is that a HP filter in the sidechain and possibly switching to RMS detection would have solved the problem.

[@ampersand64]

I'll have to try this. Thanks for the tip

[@justincarrasco3680]

Another sick tutorial. Thanks so much, Dan!

[@eliashowe7115]

Wow. That was great! Now i understand compression a lot more

[@SirEggbertfartalot]

No-one explains it all, better than Mr Worrall ;0) Different horses for different courses, and the reasons why that's true, with great tips along the way. Cheers for another very informative video sir.

[@MrLiamHenderson]

I played with Reaper (amateur level) for a year on and off. I recently purchased the license and feel glad to have contributed (however tiny that contribution may be) to this excellent project. £62 for full non commercial licence. Nothing beats Reaper in terms of price. Plus, it does everything you'd want from any DAW and more

[@philippgrunert8776]

This is impressively educational! Great content!

[@ysink]

wow the faster SC comp makes the Snares SOOOO punchy!!! gotta try this one in a mix!

[@synesthetica]

This was incredibly educational. Thank you.

[@AironExTv]

I see this video as inspiration for Justin and Schwa to improve and expand the ReaComp toolbox even further. I have very specific use cases for all the comps I use. I‘ve been swooning over gain reduction dependant attack and release times since I began using Reaper, because of the Renaissance compressor. I still use Rcomp on dialogue in opto mode. And thank you for that sidechain feedback setup. My experience in compression had not taken me that far by a long shot yet.

[@christophermarloweproducti4670]

Airon Extelevision An expanded ReaComp you say? That would be...ReaGasmic!🤩

[@Kolinu2]

Great, useful information, Thank you Dan.

[@ToXball]

Thatnks Dan, your channel is gold for me. Would be great if you make an exlusive video on Fabfilter C2 with all the differences and powerful of the compressor styles. Love your videos, I’ve learned a lot from you. Thanks!

[@Sebastianandthedeepbluemusic]

More please!! Can’t get enough

[@JimhawthorneNet]

Thank you for this trick Dan, I love it and use it a lot. I would really like to see you go through the JS Saike Tight Compressor. That one has become a go-to for me. Thanks for all you do for us.

[@ts4gv]

Awesome. Thanks Dan.

[@jamescuttsmusicjcm5013]

Great video Dan! Thanks.

[@danluther9078]

Dan -- really great videos; informative, clear and articulate.

[@nugznmugz]

I just learned so much... mind blown. Thank you so much!

[@EdoBassPlayer]

Very good and informative video as always. Thank you Dan

[@tohtorizorro]

Sir, you are my hero!

[@nickmarkham3743]

Old video, I know, but man. . . I really want this to be a real song. . . Seriously, Dan, it's just epic!!!

[@cmd_f5]

Compressor plugins are like ampsims for me. Can never have enough. :) Excellent vid as always

[@Yo-Bruh]

you the best Dan ..greetings from #Africa #kenya

[@sillypsybin]

Really cool. Thanks!

[@documentingordinarythoughts]

Man I need more videos from you !!!

[@ejmikk]

Incredibly good video!

[@isaacbugalho]

Congrats for the excellent video!!

[@iqi616]

Excellent video.

[@jbroookss]

Always the best

[@uglukman]

Great tutorial!

[@LiamGaughan]

If only Pro Tools would listen to it's users in the same way!!

[@jondoe1384]

So good! Thank you Dan!

[@pz338]

great video thanks

[@1176hambone]

Mind blown, again!

[@jimimaze]

Another goodie thanks

[@AGAU1022]

It would be very entertaining and useful to have a video where you review as many compressors and limiters as possible in the shortest time possible, so like a few seconds of your opinions on each.

[@AudioReplica2023]

Now I get why reaComp was so hard to make it sound really good in my case.

[@joost3783]

Hey Dan - awesome video as always - i have a suggestion for one of your videos videos could be: Klanghelm DC8C (extremly versatile comp) and then you could try to recreate different styles of compression with it like f. example the Vertigo bus comp, ssl, 1176 etc. Keep it moving

[@synesthetica]

I second this. I'd also be curious to see it analyzed like this.

[@csabahajdu6341]

I just checked out how the feedback mix works in dc8c after watching this again and turns out I need to send a bug report to Tony... According to plugin doctor the feedback mode in dc8c also maxes out around 2:1 ratio, just like here in reacomp.

[@ashcatlt]

The knee in ReaComp has been fixed so that it no longer "spreads around" the threshold, but instead just extends below it. Your song there is just way above the threshold, and you quite definitely are getting the full ratio. I contend that it's pumping like crazy cause you're kinda smashing the hell out of it. Edit - but you're completely correct about the release curves.

[@DanWorrall]

Watch the GR meters: I'm well below 6dB of gain reduction most of the time. Perhaps I get to the full 4:1 ratio for the very loudest peaks, but mostly I'm riding the 12dB of soft knee. I picked those settings to match the Klanghelm's default soft knee behaviour, which doesn't sound pumpy even with similar amounts of gain reduction.

[@ashcatlt]

@@DanWorrall I'm sorry, I see the green meters consistently above the threshold for most of that program. You're mostly out of the knee at that point. I think most of what's keeping your gain reduction down is the A/R smoothing. I'm not sure what that Klanghelm does for a knee, but I know how ReaComp works.

[@ashcatlt]

But also didn't you fairly well prove that the Klanghelm has some RMS time to it? That'll make a bit of a difference also. To be clear, I'm not trying to defend the weird curves in any way. They should fix that.

[@DanWorrall]

No. Adding RMS smoothing to ReaComp creates a similar looking "pause" before the gain starts to recover, but we can't assume that means RMS smoothing in the Klanghelm. In fact DC1A3 has a "relaxed" mode (which I didn't use) which the documentation says adds RMS smoothing, implying that otherwise it's peak sensing.

[@spanneng]

damn.. I wanted this 8 years ago!

[@turfoid7899]

Keeping bad plugins on their toes 1 video at a time 👍🏻

[@zimouspero]

1000 thanks...i Lost hours trying to undersstand whats wrong with reacomp on my mixed

[@nibblrrr7124]

12:32 That _He carries heavy loads_ song is amazing! Do you happen to know if Little Robots have actually released it anywhere by now? I could only find a demo on Lal Bailey's Bandcamp... (And both don't seem to have released anything since 2014... :C)

[@zerotheorem729]

FINALLY!!!

[@rickmcguire1761]

I feel blessed to be the first to hear Dan’s voice

[@broklanders4730]

wtf. is that drumset? sounds MEGA. 80's galore. love it. 👍

[@DanWorrall]

The secret to a great drum sound: hire a great session drummer! I can't remember what Bobby brought to that session, it was a while ago. I used a lot of mics... but probably only needed three ;)

[@broklanders4730]

@@DanWorrall - ah, a shame... i was hoping it's superior drummer, addictive drums or a sampling library (so that i could get a hold on it 😉). extremely well tuned and the drummer has a quite steady stroke. really like this. will listen to this as soon as i'm back in the studio... 👍

[@usedtowels]

i love this guy. i have no idea what is going on in this video, haha. ❤❤ Worrall rules

[@andreifilip]

Wonderfull video Dan, I thanks a bunch. This also confirms my thoughts that ReaComp can't be used in all of the situations. I tried at some point to use only stock Reaper plugins, and something seemed off for me, getting different sound. Not wrong by all means, but different

[@triphonikstudio]

That track slaps harder than a retread off a semi.

[@Audiomishran]

Can you please release an album on bandcamp of the tracks you use in your videos? These tracks are awesome for listening and some of them could really serve as reference.

[@AlbertSirup]

haven't watched the previous videos and i feel like a student who's late to class

[@legendleague444]

liking before watching, yes because i can do it

[@nenadstojanovic6545]

I wonder what would happen if the active compressor was listening to Molotok's DETLA signal aka the difference between compressed and uncompressed signal.

[@DanWorrall]

Interesting idea. I've no idea how that would sound...

[@v1talker]

Dan do you know this VST ReaComp is different than this one bundled with Reaper?

[@DanWorrall]

Yes, it's missing several updates. Hopefully the standalone ReaPlugs will get an update at some point.

[@jonathanliu-chan238]

Would love this update in stand alone. As well as the delay plugins wet dry fader working correctly, so it can be used as a send option, rather than just an insert.

[@NeilBaylis]

Wait, I'm confused. Are you running the current reacomp inside of plugin doctor? If so, how did you extract the vst from the dylib?

[@DanWorrall]

No, I had to use the old ReaComp in the doctor.

[@NeilBaylis]

@@DanWorrall Thanks Dan. These reacomp videos have been very useful to me. BTW, you should check the link in your YT about page. It goes somewhere bad.

[@nickmarkham3743]

Man, when you told me I just needed a DAW with "flexible routing," I thought you meant one with actual feedback in the routing. This, I can do with ease! I'd really love to know where I can find the tune you used in the beginning and end of the video. Sounds like a very fun listen.

[@DanWorrall]

Intro and outro music was tailor made for the video: you can't find it anywhere else. Glad you like it :)

[@nickmarkham3743]

@@DanWorrall Awww. That's a bummer. I really liked the sounds and attitude in that one. What genre would you call that? Keep me posted if you decide to share it somewhere.

[@DanWorrall]

I have no idea what genre it would go under! Suggestions welcome...

[@christophermarloweproducti4670]

Every time I click on a Dan Worrall video I know it’s time to learn...as well as pick up the pieces of my blown brain 🤯 A general question/something that entered my brain for some reason... When Dan is showing the gain reduction curves for Reacomp vs Klanghelm DC1A3, I was wondering what exactly about the ReaComp curve is less natural sounding. And then thinking of the release curve shape, it reminded me of the EDM sidechain pumping effect, often made with something like LFOTool vst. Is the ReaComp upward release curve less natural because this shape tends to naturally introduce pumping artifacts a la the sidechain effect? On the other hand, the DC1A3 release curve reminds me of Reaper’s default item crossfade curve shape. Maybe this crossfade shape was placed as default because it sounds more natural?

[@DanWorrall]

Yes the release curve affects the pumpiness. S shaped release curves are even pumpier. But the default cross-fade curves are to maintain equal power with uncorrelated signals: not really the same thing.

[@christophermarloweproducti4670]

Dan Worrall Ah! thanks for the insight Dan! Good to know about the crossfade shapes being there to maintain signal power.

[@nickmarkham3743]

Hi Dan. I was wondering, would you mind sharing the JS compressor you demoed in this video? I'd like to try this kind of compressor done in db/ms. I'm also really interested in how you built those attack and release filters. I only know of the one pole style filters in most designs. Someone told me you can convert between a filter's time constant and discharge rate in volts/ms, and you could use that to get to db/ms, but I'm not entirely convinced of that. The decibel conversion and the placement of the ballistics filtering would mess with that, I think. (might be wrong)

[@DanWorrall]

desc: Linear Compressor //tags: dynamics //author: Dan Worrall slider1:0Threshold (dB) slider2:0.5Ratio slider3:2 Attack (dB/ms) slider4:50Release (dB/s) slider5:0Gain in_pin:left input in_pin:right input out_pin:left output out_pin:right output @init gainred=1; @slider thresh=2 ^ (slider1/6); invthresh= 1/thresh; attack= 1 / (2 ^ ( ( (slider3*1000)/srate)/6)); release=2 ^ ( ( (slider4)/srate)/6); ratio = slider2; makeup=2 ^ (slider5/6); @block @sample //mono sum absmono=( abs(spl0)+abs(spl1) )*0.5; //knee clipping=min((thresh/absmono),1); gainred= clipping

[@nickmarkham3743]

Wow! Thanks for sharing this, Dan! This thing is actually really cool. :) Doesn't sound very much like filters with normal time constants at all! How did you come up with this? Did you get the theory from any books, papers, app notes? Or did you really just hack at it until it seemed to work? Thanks again for sharing that here. I'm having a lot of fun with it. :)

[@DanWorrall]

@@nickmarkham3743 I was just playing around with different ways to do compression. In Reaktor originally.

[@KingGrio]

Man. Although in some examples I clearly hear what Dan means when talking about how the compressor behaves, and on other occasions I somewhat hear it subtly. There are instances like in the video where I just feel I might as well be deaf, I don't hear the "pumpy" character of Reacomp on the song. Granted I'm listening on a smartphone that has a history of tricking my ears due to built in audio processing that skews my perspective, and with Sony earbuds, not a nice playback system or a high end pair of headphones. But still, I thought I'd hear more. I'll try again at home on the Neumann HD20

[@DanWorrall]

The best way to hear it is probably to try it on your own mixes.

[@kostyak327]

What is the Weird knee?

[@dammitcoetzee]

15:38 I sat and listened to this for a good 20 minutes to on/bypass and I just can't hear a difference. Is there something wrong with my set-up (dt770 headphones and an interface)? Did youtube do something to the sound? Can anyone give me a tip of what I'm supposed to be listening for, maybe if I had something my ear could latch on to I could begin to pick out the overall difference?

[@DanWorrall]

Compression is really hard to hear, and that's a particularly tough example. I'd suggest trying it for yourself, on your own mixes, which you know more intimately than anything else. Start by squashing it way too much, so you can easily hear the compression. Then, when you've tuned your ears into what's changing, try a subtler version and listen carefully to that. You often see warnings not to compress too much: ignore them. That's the only way to tune your ears to the sound of compression. And, its usually the way we know we've got the right amount: you pile it on till it's too much, then back it off a bit, right? That's how it works for everything else...

[@dammitcoetzee]

​@@DanWorrall Thanks so much, that's comforting to know that it is a hard example to hear and I'll do as you suggest on my own mixes to see if I can train my ear to hear more subtlety over time. Nice to know I can ignore those warnings. Also, I think your logo changed? It looks nice.

[@amandembla7109]

Can you show this trick in FL Studio??

[@IdontNeedHandles]

I love the intro/outro song. Where can i get it?

[@DanWorrall]

I made it for this video, doesn't exist anywhere else yet...

[@IdontNeedHandles]

@@DanWorrall i hope you release it in the future. P.s. thanks for the great videos.

[@erewrw1906]

Where could i get similar Songs? seems you have nice, complex yet not confusing Music in you Videos. sounds rare. I will look if i find something ondiscogs soundcloud. Peace

[@erewrw1906]

hey, yont have to anwser my question, i just wanted to share my thoughtprocess, actually for others. i found good things on those sites isaid. But if you have some nice Musiccollections to link, fell free.. otherwise rock on!

[@Hermiel]

Classical Conditioning at play: Dan Worrall releases a new video; I become a giddy schoolboy. Seriously, Dan, your videos are beacons of insight in a sea of banality. (No pressure)

[@nickmarkham3743]

No kidding. I was anxious because of bad weather around here, and when I saw this had been released, I was relaxed for the next two hours. :P

[@Micahtmusic]

what are you listening for when you say it’s glueing?

[@DanWorrall]

It's literally the ducking of parts in response to other parts. But I don't really listen for that as much as the general feel: less like a collection of separate parts, and more "like a record".

[@Micahtmusic]

@@DanWorrall ohh. sure, understood. and thank you for answering

[@nickmarkham3743]

I really like the track you made for this tutorial. With it's interesting percussion, metallic melody, aggressive synths, and glitchy guitar and keys. Most of the sound design is well beyond me. Dan, if you don't mind my asking, how did you create the wobble bass near the beginning of the tutorial? It's an incredibly gritty and aggressive sound with so much changing all at once, and yet it's also surprisingly articulate. Somehow, you've avoided a noisey mess of a cloud. would really like to know How it's done. Are sound design and synthesis tutorials beyond the scope of this channel?

[@DanWorrall]

The wobble bass is FM synthesis using the FM oscillator in Falcon. You should be able to get the same kind of sounds with any decent FM synth (by which I mean DX style phase modulation not true frequency modulation). Glad you like! I'll count this as a request for an FM bass tutorial. But what synth would I use? What's the most popular FM synth out there at the moment?

[@nickmarkham3743]

The great thing about you, Dan, is that you teach concepts rather than brands. I imagine anything will do with your teaching style. But I am happy to offer suggestions; I love synths, even though I'm not very good at them. :P FM8 is quite popular, with 8 operators, detailed breakpoint style envelopes, and lots of FX. Ableton has Operator, with four additive oscillators and a few preset FM algorithms, similar to Falcon. My personal preference has been Image Line's "Sytrus," because it combines FM and RM synthesis with 128 partial, additive oscillators, and a relatively clear mod matrix. (though it can be fiddly with MIDI control) But there are also some free FM synthesizers as well. Dexed is a free DX7 VST; oft regarded as the best available; though I've never played with it.. There's also "Adonis," with four FM/AM operators and some filters. You could always use Falcon with an oscilloscope and spectrograph.

[@billlear8008]

@@DanWorrall Dexed is free, full-featured, albeit with a somewhat clunky interface.

[@thevicol]

And what about time constants? How reacomp's attack/release times are defined? They don't match the 2/3 GR(dB) rule. 90% and 99% and 99.9% too. Other comps are more predictable? Which one is most 'mathematical'?

[@DanWorrall]

The most mathematically accurate compressor ever made (with regards to attack and release calibration) is the JS linear compressor I show in the video, with dB/ms and dB/s calibration respectively. Unfortunately it sounds a bit shit ;) Apart from that no compressor can be more correct than another as there's no agreed correct way to measure it. Even if some industry body standardized it at (eg) 2/3rds of target gain change, compressors with different attack or release curves would still end up sounding very different with the same numbers. And then, what about program dependency? As soon as you have any at all the numbers go out the window, as the actual time constants now depend on the input signal. The numbers are only really useful when comparing settings of the same compressor. You can probably reasonably assume that 5ms is twice as fast as 10ms, on the same compressor with the same input signal. Otherwise you really just have to use your ears.

[@PhatLvis]

Seems the Reaper chaps watched Dan's vid.

[@megwatts1903]

Makes my brain hurt but in a nice way.

[@searchiemusic]

i really love trying to transpose these reaper tricks into cubase, maybe an auxiliary send and a compressor that allows sidechain input hmmmmmmmmm

[@Matoro342]

I now know I know nothing about compression.

[@LiveArtPresents]

my brain hurts,

[@pablolachmann7044]

I seem to be the only one having problems understanding the words while this music is playing in the background... *sigh*

[@parthconsul4456]

Hey manh, please focus on releasing music. Thank You

[@radiantaudio944]

Second 😁