What's wrong with this Apple IIgs motherboard?

[@superspedboy0076]

i enjoyed the side mounted camera. you talking to us, made me feel like i was right there with ya!! as always keep up the great work adrian!!

[@TheSulross]

its like we're seated at the bench along side him

[@jasonscherer2631]

Had to click on this one right away. My first computer growing up with an Apple IIGS and really regret ever telling my parents that it find to get rid of it.

[@TheSulross]

havent been able to win ebay auctions to buy one - learning to program FPGA now - maybe the IIgs future will be via retro recreations. Because also get Apple IIe functionality too, seems like would be a great model to target

[@Neodra]

So happy you got it working and upgraded. I'm glad I sent it to someone who loves it enough to get it working again. Now lets see you tackle the Mac IIci hehe.

[@tedthrasher9433]

I got my Apple IIGS in middle school and used it through my freshman year in college when I bought a Mac IIci. I still have it, including my 4 MB AE RAM and 40 MB Vulcan. My favorite computer of all time and the last computer that I owned where I felt that I could truly understand how it worked.

[@m4rgin4l]

I love the 2gs case.

[@smakfu1375]

I really love watching these videos. I only have vintage (e.g. man cave) room for my vic20, c=64 and Amiga 3000 (which are all original to me; I have some other cool machines, like my sgi indigo and dec microVAX, but they live in storage). I’d love a IIgs, as I always love its sound hardware and incredibly cool late 80’s design aesthetic. Sadly, between the pile of modern hardware and my limited vintage collection, even the svelte gs isn’t going to fit, so I live vicariously through you. These videos are also hugely instructional: despite 39 years (since I was six, with my trusty vic20) of tinkering and working in this industry, I can’t believe how many tricks I’ve picked up from these videos. Hell, I wouldn’t have correctly diagnosed the fault my c=64 developed had it not been for this channel.

[@Mr_Meowingtons]

i miss my apple IIGS it was lost in a basement flood back in 2006 :(

[@madmax2069]

basement floods are horrible, i lost my LC475, SE30, TI-99/4A and its PEB, C64, Atari XEGS, and a few other computer bits in a basement flood.

[@AdamKlein77]

Saved it from a sizzling Death By Capacitor Plague.

[@JayVBear45]

Before I got my Amiga 500 I wanted an Apple IIgs. Still miss my Amiga. Thanks for this cool and instructive video. You've got me wanting a Commodore 64 again, my brothers kept trying to give me their old ones: a Breadbin, a 64 C And a 128, that they outgrew but I just wasn't interested - stupid me. They were Physics/Math/CompSci majors and are now Physicists.

[@GodMode823]

I can sit and watch Adrian’s videos over & over & over & over again. This stuff is my favorite hobby.

[@maniatore2006]

Lucky guy you are, my first Amiga was a 500 but i loved it, a friend of mine had an Amiga 1200 with a Monitor, and i had just my old TV. But it was a great time. Thank you so much for that video. It brings back some good memories.

[@Inject0r]

Adrian, I really love the setting and different angles in this video! It takes the video to a whole new professional level of awesome. You are one of the genuine KZbinrs, which makes the retro computer community a whole lot more fun. Thank you very much for that! Keep on doing what you’re currently doing, because I’m having a blast watching your videos! Best regards from The Netherlands.

[@dhirendrapsingh6758]

Informative. Useful. Calming. Inspiring. Life-changing. Enjoyable. Heart-warming. Other.

[@MikesArcadeMonitorRepair]

Great job on the repair! Always like watching you get this stuff back up and going.

[@rileyphillip]

I remember seeing the GS GUI in High School. It was the first time I'd seen a proper GUI. I thought it was amazing! Thanks for the trip down memory land!

[@jonathancombe9991]

I'm a bit behind with watching your videos at the moment but this was a nice relaxed video with the side mounted camera and a bit of chat about why you love the Apple II and went on to the Amiga. I like this style, thank you Adrian.

[@RetroGamesCollector]

Really enjoyed this video, just got my first GS myself and am exploring what it is capable of. Like you said, it is a strange machine, the Apple IIs last hoorah all whilst Apple themselves were only seemingly concerned with selling Macs.

[@suluturnip]

Thanks Adrian. I haven’t been getting any alerts about your new videos. I was lucky that you popped up as a recommended follow up to another one. Weird. Also, another great video!

[@VorpalGun]

Any plans on doing videos on the unusual computers you have received over the years? Like the Soviet one for example? I'd love to see that up and running!

[@thunderbeam9166]

I’m sure he is, having repaired old Soviet electronics in the past finding data sheets, schematics, and certain parts can be a real pain. Some of their ICs don’t have western pin compatible counterparts or just have straight up bizarre packaging. One of the more common issues was that they used things like “B” Batteries (1.6-PMTs-Kh-1.5 batteries) and the only cells that fit in the compartment without adapters come out of dismantled 4.5v (3LR13) European lantern batteries.

[@brentboswell1294]

The most unusual //gs'es in existence: the ones that were upgraded from //e's and are in a //e case. It would be cool if Adrian could come up with the parts to make one 😎

[@StrangelyIronic]

I have a Platinum that was converted so double whammy for being weird. My main machine is a Woz Edition that's fully loaded/upgraded. Still had to grab the Platinum IIGS when I saw it for sale, haven't seen one since (haven't really looked tbh).

[@lemonherb1]

It's really not that difficult. Maybe check in with MacEffects to see if they still have anymore of their replica IIe to IIGS upgrade basepans. That has all the proper openings for the ports for the GS logicboard, plus they also have replica badges as well, not to mention the clear poly carbonate IIe case.

[@dr.zarkhov9753]

Superb troubleshooting Adrian.

[@kennethwadejohns8561]

I remember when Byte magazine said that the GS stood for Granny Smith.

[@TheSulross]

Apple did intentionally hobble its clock speed so it couldn't be competitive vis a vis the Macintosh line (it had color after all)

[@lordmmx1303]

I think at this point we need 3rd channel called Adrian's Parts Cannon

[@SockyNoob]

That diagnostic audio tone shifting up in pitch is hilarious lol. Wasn't expecting it to go up to a comically high pitched sound.

[@retropuffer2986]

Love that machine. Brings back so many memories.

[@mikesilva3868]

Same here 😌

[@douro20]

When I was in school in the mid-90s we had Apple IIgs computers but only one of them had GS/OS software on it. I believe they all had ROM 01 on them as well.

[@MadManDarkJedi]

Love to see the happy ending.

[@artursmihelsons415]

Never seen Apple IIGS before. Nice repair and great logic to finding faulty RAM IC.. 👍 About ROM, probably, low and high bytes are separated in ROM address space in two halfs in original machine, but mixed back together for emulator. Doesn't looked to me like byte swap, as it is done in car ECU's etc.. About deleting used ROM chips - I, usually, before that, create readout image in PC and save it.

[@fumthings]

did apple do something similar with low and high byte when the rom was in 2 separate ic's?

[@artursmihelsons415]

@@fumthings Not only Apple did that on 16 bit machines when used two ROM's.. Same was done on AT and XT machines too by different manufacturers.. In case of Apple IIGS, by schematic, looks like ROMA14.H signal is what separates low and high part in one IC..

[@johnmarchington3146]

Another great video, Adrian. You're a wiz.

[@stephendouglas684]

Enjoy watching your troubleshooting process! Very educational.

[@LeftoverBeefcake]

It always sucks when chips fail, but when they fail and get scaldingly hot, at least that makes it super easy to diagnose the problem. ;)

[@PhobosTK]

5:50 - The "Think Different" approach strikes again.

[@ercuesy]

Your videos are so entertaining, thanks Adrian!

[@petarpuskarich3366]

If you ever come across one of the AMI - a or -1 vgc chips in a rom 00 I would love to buy one to have a defective vgc version for my collection. But Apple recalled most of them early on in the process of upgrading our 00 to 01 free upgraded. Great video

[@RobertPendell]

You make me want to get a IIGS. I got my first introduction to computers with Apple IIe computers that my elementary school had.

[@lemonherb1]

By socketing the Standard RAM, there will not be enough clearance to reinstall the front bezel of the case, so keep this in mind.

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

Oh. Interesting!! I clearly didn't try to install this back into a case! I guess I'd need to fix this if I ever did. I will update the description.

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

Ah looks like it interferes with the RF shield (possibly) I think it should clear if you just cut away that section above the RAM chips.

[@shanejohns7901]

@12:56 I think there are pretty basic ways of testing RAM chips. You basically write with all 0s, and read them back to make sure they are 0s. Then you do it again with all 1s, and read them back to make sure you get all 1s back. Advanced tests will then do some alternating pattern such as 11001100...1100 where they pair up the bits, and alternate the pairs as 1s or 0s. Most tests, if they are going to fail, will fail with the all 0 or all 1 fills/checks. Though given the nature of the sizes of the RAM chips it is possible to get strange errors that will only show up during the advanced pattern-filled tests.

[@75slaine]

Fantastic episode Adrian 👍

[@NorthShoreJoe]

So glad I came across your channel. Having done a year of Tech School myself back in the 90's learning electronics, troubleshooting, logic, breadboarding, soldering, etc. it brings back memories watching your troubleshooting techniques. MS-DOS 5.0 was the latest OS and QBasic and SQL92 were being taught everywhere at that time. I picked up a IIGS WOZ at auction but since I basically learned on MS-DOS Systems at Tech School, I'm worried about messing something up. I don't even know how to hook all this stuff up. The entire system came with (1) 5.25 (1) 3.5, keyboard, mouse, monitor, and ImageWriterII Dot Matrix. No Software Disks or Manuals. What are your recommendations for a website to find good manuals and are there any good forums I'd be able to join that can answer questions about the IIGS? Thanks. Subbed.

[@locomotive282]

I like the screen capture overlayed while your at your bench.

[@mmemmo100]

I like all of your videos very much irrelevant to the content because it is always informative and teaches a good way of thinking. i wonder what is your original profession if you don't mind asking. and keep up with the good work

[@renatoamaral8259]

A+ repair!!! Great video and great fix.

[@fixitbrokeitfixit]

Man this took me back. . Good times

[@MarSAttK]

Adrian we're waiting for you to tackle de Mac Portable!!! :D

[@telemedic2000]

Great video, Adrian. Very informative. Keep up the good work :)

[@danman32]

With a hex code,, it's easy to tell which 4-bit bank is bad. First digit on the right is least significant 4 bits, 2nd digit on the right is most significant 4 bits.

[@renatoamaral8259]

You are very intelligent! Congrats!

[@JamesPotts]

When Apple hamstrung the GS, I switched to a PC and never bought another Apple.

[@TheSulross]

indeed, every computer model deserves to be engineered to its maximum potential per reasonable cost. it was obvious and insulting that Apple intentionally crippled the IIgs; kind of a preview of the Apple we know now that is leading the charge to obliterate right-to-repair

[@mojoblues66]

Welcome to the braindead Apple hater thread.

[@dunebasher1971]

And Apple never recovered. Just think what they might be now if James Potts hadn't switched to PC.

[@JamesPotts]

@@dunebasher1971 exactly! But given they almost went bankrupt before entering the music business, they might have been in an even stronger position if they had been able to compete in the computer space

[@joe--cool]

Same here. Wozniak's Apple Computers were the best thing Apple ever made. I could build my own expansion cards for it including a speech synthesizer. When LISA and Mac came out I was even more disappointed than with the Apple III. The only question then was Amiga or PC. Both were superior to anything Apple had.

[@Gadgetman1989]

Love learning about these kinda things Adrian!! Stay safe out there!!

[@lordsethos2000]

my heart for that poor floppy @ 4:12 - RIP.

[@brentboswell1294]

I don't know about the //gs, but on the //e, you could run the self test by holding down the solid apple key (or joystick button 1, since they were the same thing), during boot. Or control-solid apple-reset if the machine was already booted 😉

[@hansbartels8201]

Great Video !!

[@williefleete]

Used to have a few books about the 2GS, including screenshots of GSOS

[@mwk1]

23:42 - jak miło jest zobaczyć po latach, że ktoś jeszcze wygrzebuje z archiwum i korzysta z romlaboratory Siudyma! Szanuję i Pozdrawiam ;-)

[@JD3Gamer]

I was working on a Colecovision and ran into that same issue with the RF shield being necessary for normal operation.

[@jumpjetcaptain495]

Do you have the game Zany Golf for the ][gs ? I used to play that. I also used to have a 60mb external hd for my gs.

[@galamoonretrogaming]

My best machine ever. Thanks

[@gbowne1]

On my GS I preferred loading stuff off the HD instead of floppy.

[@BilisNegra]

36:17 Copyright 2015? What kind of patched System version is that?

[@lemonherb1]

A group of people found the source code to System 6.0.x and decided to roll their own updates. The last version by Apple was 6.0.1 Releases 6.0.2, 6.0.3, and 6.0.4 were their efforts which is the reason for the newer date. Those are not official Apple releases. Of these three releases, the last ones quashed bugs that were introduced. Some of the updated features was support for the current version of Daylight Savings, as well as including patches that supposedly fixed the HFS FST bug (though some bugs still persisted), and provisions for foreign language display in the OS. I did remember seeing Japanese text in the menu system at KansasFest a number of years ago.

[@BilisNegra]

@@lemonherb1 Oh, wow, thank you. I hope many other people will also find this comment of yours interesting. So nice and informative.

[@megamanfan3]

4:15 Step 1 of troubleshooting: Is the computer connected to AC power?

[@telemedic2000]

🤔

[@brendanfarthing]

Great video!

[@RixtronixLAB]

Keep it up, thank you for sharing :)

[@gwholdom]

I just spent hours making my own little ROM 1 adapter like Adrian. Went to plug it into the motherboard and the 28pin socket legs are too short for the motherboard socket by about 0.5mm! Confirmed by plugging my existing ROM in a spare 28pin socket and plugging into the motherboard socket. Quitting for the day in rage. Maybe try some DuPont jumpers tomorrow - can’t think of any easier fix.

[@FernandoelChachi]

Very interesting video like always

[@gamedoutgamer]

Great job. Isn't the GS' Ensoniq 5503 sound chip better than Amiga's paula? Screenshots of Dungeon Master running on the GS look nice but is it slow at only 2mhz?

[@mikecrane2093]

Original GS clocked at 2.4mhz, but could also be shifted down to 1mhz for compatibility with Apple II software. Accelerators brought that up to 8mhz (or more if you were lucky).

[@gamedoutgamer]

@@mikecrane2093 Mike, thank you. The GS is the one Apple I'd like to own. Maybe a IIe but the GS seems more interesting. Probably best I emulate before owning actual hardware. =) You owned one BITD?

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

Dungeon Master is meant to be played on the original system it was created for: the Atari ST!

[@JuniorTully]

Miss my WOZ edition IIGS. I kept it in like new condition decked out (replaced motherboard once) along with boxes manuals,etc. Then foolishly let it all go around 2005.

[@rille47]

You truly are a master!

[@samirsinha1135]

If you were wholly immersed in the Apple II line (as I was), getting the IIgs was definitely a step up. Shame Apple didn't invest more in the machine. Since both Wozniak and Jobs were gone by the time the IIgs was released though, I doubt there was enough old-timer support for the line for it to have survived beyond the 80s (really Wozniak's presence would've been the only hope.)

[@redstone0234]

Wozniak worked on thé IIgs It was it's first project After thé plane accident

[@samirsinha1135]

True he was involved in the initial development of the GS - but he wasn't an active employee of Apple by the time it was released in 1986.

[@wolvenar]

Ya know, you really could have just dumped the rom from your other machine. Just a thought.

[@NJRoadfan]

Getting the OSSC properly calibrated to the native SHR modes on the IIgs was a royal PITA. Once its set, it looks pretty good, no jitter. I did have a problem with noise though. I don't know if its because I used the VGA input which lacks the low pass filter the SCART jack has, or a grounding issue. Directly capturing from my DVI2PCIe capture card didn't have that problem. One thing the IIgs has over the Amiga is a better sound chip. The 5503 DOC was much more capable than Paula.

[@JoesComputerMuseum]

Come on, Adrian! Wearing a TRS-80 shirt while fixing an Apple ][? Blasphemy!! 😏

[@spookyjames4347]

It's great that he's wearing a TRS-80 shirt while fixing an Apple ][. Next video he should an Apple shirt while repairing a TRS-80. He loves all old computers.

[@JoesComputerMuseum]

@@spookyjames4347 Yes. You missed the joke.

[@TheSulross]

Tandy computers were affordable

[@juhaseppanen770]

I wonder if you consider the bit order the Apple diagnostic error code actually gives precise indication which RAM chip was at fault?

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

Can you do one on reading ceramic capacitor labels.

[@Flashy7]

I will always remember which is E0. Too bad I don't know anybody who even just saw a IIgs :D

[@jonnycando]

I knew of them…even fiddled with one for a few minutes….but it was a time when I couldn’t rub two nickels together…..so didn’t ever have one.

[@Thrakus]

Does anyone know the name of the science kit for the llgs? Was a big box with probes in it for temp light and so on. I do not think it was ever sold retail but given to schools. Does anyone remember it?

[@galier2]

It was easy to guess that the wrong bit was on E1. If it had been in E0 you would have seen it in all screens, not just some of the screens. The auxiliary RAM bank is only used for the 80 col/560 px resolution images. The 40 col/280 resolutions do not use the RAM from that bank. Furthermore, if the bit error had been in the E0 bank, there would have been much more problems with other programs. Just my 2 cents.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

"Why did you have to make me guess?" Jobs: Because I can.

[@genjii931]

Those look like the same expansion slots from an 8-bit Apple //. Did they not upgrade them to 16-bit in the //GS?

[@kevin34ct]

Do you know anything about the Atari 520 ST? I am trying to find some of the upgrades made for the original machine. I had the one wit TOS on ROM.

[@mikespangler98]

My attempt at a rom 0 to rom 1 upgrade failed just like that. No difference between having the rom chip in, or having it out. So apparently I have the same faulty rom image you did. Grrr. Unfortunately my rom reader can't read those type roms or I might have figured that out sooner. By the way what speed were your Eproms? 150, 120, 70 ns? Thanks

[@MattKasdorf]

I wondered about that; Adrian, why didn't you copy your ROM 1 chip?

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

37:00 Anyone remember Bard's Tale? "Please wait about 5 minutes, we're waking up the monsters." I would stick a game into the drive, then go to the kitchen to get a drink. Floppy drives are just absurdly slow compared to hard drives, they felt glacial when I was using the high density drives on PCs.

[@FinalBossOfCanada]

hey Adrain, could you send me that link to the diagnosis booklet, I cannot find it anywhere... thanks!

[@TotallyRadCars]

Great video! So glad I stumbled onto this channel! =)

[@bricklearns]

I would like to see your iigs retrospective

[@yehey42]

Hi Adrian, thanks for your very helpful video. I got a IIgs board with a similar problem as shown in your video. Can you tell me where i can buy the replacement ram?

[@00Klingon]

I would love for you to explore RGB options for the IIgs since they seem to be fairly limited these days. Maybe try to get the RGBtoHDMI working with it?

[@sumplais]

I wish someone would or I had the know-how to design a IIgs board that would fit in a IIc case.

[@TheSulross]

yeah, I wonder how much use the IIgs slots got...didn't the IIgs pretty much have all the features integrated that used to be added via expansion cards? imagine if Apple had introduced a model of the IIgs that was in the stylish IIc case

[@sumplais]

@@TheSulross One of the reasons I would love to see such a thing is that, according to wikipedia, one of the apple engineers was working on such a project after the Apple IIc Plus, but Apple had essentially given up on the II line by then and the project didn't continue.

[@fumthings]

would like to know more about the rom dump. i think you must be right Adrian, one way is pull rom chip and read, the other way is use the IIGS to examine memory and print out, but this does not produce the same result for some reason.

[@fumthings]

had a look at the schematic and rom pin a14 is wired somewhere special and not part of the cpu abus, also a16 is wired somewhere different as well. and a16 on the chip has a NOT input.

[@fumthings]

rom a14 and /a16 come from some special cases out of a chip marked FPI

[@fumthings]

luckily a rom is a rom and it doesn't matter what funny way you play with the address or data lines, the chip contents are the correct data.

[@tomolsen8830]

Hi Adrian, Always enjoy your videos. In my recent move from New York state to Arizona I managed to hold on to my Apple II GS and a Commodore 64C. The Apple II GS have had since new. My 3.5" floppy is no longer working and i was wondering what I could use to load software on to the II GS? I would eventually like to get the floppy drive working but for now need a method to load programs in to the computer. I do have a cable from an old modem for the Apple (8 pin mini Din ) an just wires on the other. I don't have any old computers with a serial port (sold them before he move) but would it be possible to use a raspberry pi to use as the host for ADT pro. Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW love the mid week mini mail call no matter how long it is!

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

Check out the FloppyEmu for the IIgs. It uses a SD card and can even emulate a hard drive which makes the IIgs so much more useful.

[@tomolsen8830]

@@adriansdigitalbasement Wow thanks for the fast reply. Will do that for sure. My eventual goal is to get the whole system back up and running again with the floppy drive and also the Applied Engenering pc transporter card. One other question, how do I find out which rom version it Has? The case is open and I can see the numbers on the rom chip. I did notice it said Microsoft.

[@jeffm2787]

Not sure what you have against RF shielding. If it's all nasty and rusty I guess that would be an issue.

[@TheSulross]

well, the analog RF TV broadcast signals that the FCC used to worry about interference with have by now all been shutdown. probably not much in contemporary households that some computer RF bleed would disrupt

[@jeffm2787]

@@TheSulross As a licensed HAM radio operator I wouldn't want to live next to him.

[@nickwallette6201]

RF is used for so much stuff... the FCC isn’t just worried about analog TV. Analog (or digita) radio and TV, cellular, WiFi, Bluetooth, home automation... just to name the stuff you might have at home that could be disrupted. Not even to mention the licensed commercial stuff that exists all over the spectrum. If you knew for an absolute fact that it only spewed garbage in narrow unlicensed bands at low power, then the FCC wouldn’t require it today. But nobody tunes their RF emissions unless they’re building an intentional antenna.

[@EdwinNoorlander]

Do you have a RASCSI emulator?

[@cbmsysmobile]

Thousand dollar computer in 1986 - Shall we ground the motherboard? No, that would require another wire. Just make sure the power supply case touches the motherboard shield.

[@CandyGramForMongo_]

Why does the socket/pin swap remind me of an Enigma machine?

[@mikecrane2093]

I sure miss my old ROM01 Apple IIgs. :( Upgraded the hell out of that old computer. Got rid of it after I had a stroke and figured I would never be able to use it again. /sigh

[@ovalwingnut]

Yep. Just hearing AMIGA.. still makes me swoon (in a manly way:). Burned into my brain. Good show. Thank you.

[@jmpiv4]

I miss my apple IIgs the computer it self is still a beautiful computer

[@PatrickPoet]

thanks

[@ikkuranus]

What if you have rom3 and want to downgrade to rom1? I ask because I had a 2gs growing up and the rom1 board outright failed and was replaced with a 3. When I got it back I was unable to play marble madness at that point forward so I assume it was due to the rom upgrade.

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

Unfortunately that won't work, the boards are different enough that the ROMs aren't compatible.

[@mikesilva3868]

Sweet 📼

[@SuperMoleRetro]

What do you use to covert the video signal so you can use it on a regular flat screen LCD? I need that.

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

In this video I'm using the OSSC to do it. Concerts analog RGB to HDMI.

[@kaunomedis7926]

Apple mixed bits to simplify PCB tracing?