What’s Your REAL BJJ Lineage? Don’t Lie Now. - Kama Vlog

[@thelurker9472]

I am a long way away from worrying about this.

[@MobiusCoin]

Man, these black belt problems. 😂😂

[@Shadowoftheoldones]

If you want to know if someone is good at Jiu Jitsu you can roll with them. All the name dropping nonsense about "pedigree" and "lineage" are not really necessary.

[@davethetalentlessguru759]

I've trained bjj for the last 5 years, and I've come to realize that the only people who tend to care about lineage are that of the Gracie's. I get it, you want to be proud of your accomplishments as a practitioner and the previous practitioners who taught you. But at a certain point, I feel like you are just trying to sell me your school by trying to convince me you are the "real deal". It's a bit annoying.

[@lemmingsinsight89]

It's funny and ironic that you made a video of "true lineage". The Gracies weren't exactly truthful in their "true lineage". The Gracies will say that Mitsuyo Maeda was Carlos' instructor but that wasn't quite true. Carlos was taught by a black belt that was a student of Maeda. His name was Donato Pires dos Reis. Carlos and George were assistants at Donato's Jiu Jitsu Academy in 1930. Donato eventually left the academy behind and the Gracie brothers took over. This is when Hélio came in the picture and started training Jiu Jitsu. I think the Gracies like to leave Donato's name out just to have the prestige of saying that Carlos was a student of Maeda when in fact he was taught by Donato Pires dos Reis.

[@edgardovenegas3175]

Amen

[@jasonjayalap]

"Based on the evidence available, Carlos Gracie was a student of Jacintho Ferro who, in his turn, was a student of Mitsuyo Maeda. Carlos may have taken a few classes from Maeda during his stay in Belém, although there has never been any evidence of it. At present, the best available evidence indicates that Carlos Gracie’s jiu-jitsu teacher was fellow countryman Jacintho Ferro. " search "Who was Oscar Gracie and who taught him Jiu-Jitsu?"

[@Bhanna4d]

Nice catch

[@mannyclav]

It’s all been great marketing from the beginning, I used to go to a school where students would get promoted by the main instructor (blackbelt) even though they barely trained directly under him.

[@JEFFMAN90]

Wheres the evidence of this?

[@27dforce]

You have ethics and are a stand up guy! Not everyone is like you!

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+Dave Dave thank you for your kind words. But, I’m no different than anyone else. I have a shit ton of faults and despite my best efforts, have done many people wrong, as well.

[@mohamedosman3845]

I think he has better ground game than stand up. Just an assumption

[@88caron]

I don't think Relson is a great example since in order to get your black belt from him you actually test with Relson.

[@Bhanna4d]

At the end of the video you kind of start talking about two different things: 1 black belts who project their lineage; 2 people who aren't black belts.

[@grapplingbuddy2418]

My Lineage is a Gracie Mixture :) but we have to respect also the Oswaldo Fadda Lineage !

[@lmk2869]

I apologise for my ignorance however as I plan to transition to BJJ from Judo, what lineage is reputable and would be best for self defense or a mixture of competition and self defence? Hoping some of y'all can help me out cheers.

[@gxtmfa]

I’ve met some guys from Pedro Zaire’s lineage. The Pedro Sauer guys had a self defense focus.

[@UnmotivatedNation]

This is exactly what happens in the military. Some guys just have to make a good story better.

[@VT-zz3ik]

I'm a white belt to this channel and I'm loving your contents.

[@AskTheKid]

There actually is a Relson Gracie gym in Ohio lol

[@blankbandits]

Fast forward to 2024, I don't think any of this matters anymore. There are so many blackbelts who are not well-known. If I tell you from whom I got my belt, you wouldn't know the person. The bjj community is too huge at this point. It's now more about from which team or from which school you've gotten your belt and not necessarily the person. No one really tries to sell themselves as whatever belt level from a Gracie or from a person anymore. I mean, sure it happens if it's an ADCC multi-champion or something and you're a pro, but for the average practitioner this is no longer very relevant.

[@veteransowhat5669]

Does he like the self defense jiujitsu sequences? I have never had a cirt, in any of my bjj belts. I had cirts in jiujitsu. Also the affiliates probably won't be there, to do any techniques for you. Have you sat next to them and called them? Ha, Relson has academy on the east coast and his family is a Ralphs place in SF. Some have received black belts from kodokan Judo and are able to legitimately compete in IBJJF as black belts. There newaza was that strong that they can compete at a very high level jiu jitsu. How do you explain this? I ant doing shit for you son!

[@areitomusic]

I don't have one but if I train in BJJ, it would definitely be a GM Rickson Gracie Senior student or GM Francisco Mansur( from the little I know of him ).

[@joseichoshow9846]

I not a black belt but a white belt. I started at 16 and I quit for 12 years. And now I am 28 white belt. And jory malone is professor. He passed away. R.i.p And now his wife is the professor Abby.

[@stevengarman9112]

Mitsuyo Maeda > Luis França > Oswaldo Fadda > Monir Salomão > Juarez Soares > Bruno Lima No Gracies in my lineage.

[@timie2255]

Day 1 White belt under Cory Richardson, Rickson Gracie curriculum

[@Seawolfaka]

Well I got a hold of the Renso Gracie/ ?????? Can’t remember his name videos. In the mid 90’s.

[@hermanmelville3871]

Just got my brown from Leo Vieira, and hopefully my black will come from him as well. If I get it from anyone else, I’ll be just as proud to say their name if anyone asks.

[@shinobu19]

This whole topic is funny considering most accuse the Gracie lineage of being embellished...was it Maeda or his student that trained up Carlos?

[@travisramirez6616]

I concur sir! It's disrespectful to the person who poured the time and effort into you.

[@TheItalianGentleman2394]

My school is under rickson but I would never say I got a rickson Gracie whatever belt

[@mikestull177]

I'm looking for a legit brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school in columbus ohio do you have any recommendations or have heard of any around the area?

[@thewarrior6784]

I am being trained by Sylvain Moroney, who is a black belt under Royler Gracie.

[@jaycemoorebjj]

i’m coached by paul joyner who was coached by relson gracie

[@locomoco7141]

to be honest who cares who's your lineage right? it doesn't matter if you were trained by say.... Rickson or trained by Joe blow.. as long as you you're taught the fundamentals of the art you should be proud. There are too many people boasting about their lineage but yet get their asses handled to them.

[@goldfish8196]

One of the best videos

[@jameyrider395]

Loyalty. Integrity. Mad respect Ryan.

[@danielandrews7378]

it's all about the money

[@Covencraft]

imo technique is technique, if executed correctly, what does it matter who gave you your belt? Knowledge and Wisdom > Ego.

[@joeallen2354]

Tons of that in jiu jitsu

[@thompson5272]

I thought it was crazy having Rickson 3-4 ways up my lineage haha

[@zeke1eod]

This is why you sir are respected, honesty! I wish more professors were truly honest. Thanks for that. God bless

[@sliderx1897]

So for example, if u trained and got all ur belts under Prof. Kama. But when u got u took ur black belt test lets say u were observed by both Prof. Kama and GM Rickson, could u then say that u got ur bb from Rickson?

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

I could. But I’d never.

[@CaptPostmod]

What's the danger? It's hard to get inflection into text, so I'll say that I'm not asking in a contradictory or facetious way. As a white belt, I'm legitimately just curious. Is there some danger to me as a student in an instructor saying he's a Relson black belt but he was really trained by Joe Smith who was trained by Relson?

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

The danger may come from a combination of issues. Being disingenuous can bite everyone later when you aren’t to the same standards that being a genuine student comes from. If you are lying in essence, for a marketing purpose people will figure you out and you won’t last long IMO. That and if you’re willing to bend the truth there you may have less integrity in other parts of running a school or as a practitioner. Although if the school has high standards and everyone follows the same plan underneath a certain figure, issues like that are small, but can compound years down the line. It’s the risk of teaching though because you can’t really control your students. - Rusty

[@slowcheetah7769]

Ive been thinking about this recently. We are a small club in ireland, we have our own gym name, but we are part of an umbrella group. Long story short, we were told we have to wear the patches of this umbrella group. This wouldnt be a problem, except, the patch is very recognisable here in Ireland and i synonymous with one guy in particular. The problem isnt being associated with this guy, the problem is, being forced to wear this guys patches, when ive never even met him. I simply do not train under the guy, but it will be the same thing for me. All my promotions will come from this guy i never see. Dont care what anyone says, Stevie and John train me and i will always give them credit. End of story. Kyoujin Loyal! 💪

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

that's the decision Stevie and John make for their own school.

[@slowcheetah7769]

Kama Jiu-Jitsu yeah.. And i think it sucks. Anyway. Interesting video. Ha. Keep them coming man. Oss!

[@joeschmoe9154]

That's a weird set-up. I know there are affiliate schools that require the name on the door and patches but never heard of one where the promotions are given out by someone who doesn't physically train with you.

[@slowcheetah7769]

Joe schmoe yeah, we are affiliated, but it goes further again, we are all under the "Revolution" umbrella. So basically this is a 3 tier nightmare of loyalties (i know where mine lie, which is kind of the point of this post, and it aint the otherside of the country with guys ive never met) Theres 2 main guys. One in belfast, and one in dublin. See the Belfast guy maybe once every 2-3 months. Have never seen the Dublin guy, and hes the real head of the operation. Our coaches report to Dublin on different peoples progress, we go to grading, and Dublin guy has the final call on the day. Meanwhile, im at the other end of the country, having to sport these patches, that arent even our gyms colours ffs! Sorry for being so cryptic, but dont want to start war! 😂

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+slow cheetah the school owner is not being forced to affiliate. But he must see some value for the school in doing so.

[@rayanthonyrobles5162]

Maeda>Helio Gracie>Royce Gracie>Jon Burke> (eternally grateful, honored, and privileged to be one of Jon's first 3 black belts) Me

[@jims512]

+Ray - Is your school officially affiliated with Royce? I live where there is an affiliate..good school, good guys..I briefly trained there. Anyway, on Royce’s website, he lists his black belts and includes the guys that train day-to-day at that school under the local black belt that’s either one or two “generations” removed from Royce. I totally agree with Prof Ryan’s point, but at the same time, it seems that at least some of what he speaks of is coming from the top, so to speak. Just look at the comment from Michael Masesie above yours.

[@NickyAztec]

I like your last name

[@timothymushrush5772]

Maeda>Carlos Gracie>Carlos Machado>Travis Lutter. I’m incredibly lucky. I’m only a lowly white belt, but I hope to get my black belt from Travis. About 12 years away!

[@joseb3862]

How would I be able to find my lineage?

[@tjl4688]

My coach -> Rener -> Helio -> Carlos Sr. -> Count Maeda, etc, etc

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

...Rener -> Rorion -> Helio...

[@nicholasnj3778]

Blame it on Heldon, if he didn’t train the person he shouldn’t be putting the belt on the person

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

It’s kind of the way in the Affiliate Master/Academy business model. Everyone these days want a belt from the Master/GM, even though said master doesn’t even know your name and would not recognize you on the street if you called his name out.

[@thomaselmore1155]

I saw the same thing happen in American Kenpo over 45+ years teaching it and other arts. Ed Parkers signature was on the certificates as the IKKA president on the Executive board. He personally signed as Instructor for those of us he actually taught himself. Still so many claimed otherwise after his passing. Eventually the generations of publicity seeking fakes represent and diminish the arts. Salute.

[@vancityhighballer4832]

How about mine? I got Carlos/Heilo>Carlson>Marcus Soares> Adam Zugec (white to purple) then I trained with Adam Ryan (also a Marcus BB) for a few years now I'm training with Marcus directly for 4 stripes.

[@0713mas]

Great points!

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

I agree with this. Everyone in jiu-jitsu should be able to tell you their Lineage no matter how many instructors they have had. I can name every black belt and above I've trained with in the last 18 years. My first instructor was a purple belt under Royce and I received my blue belt at a seminar from Royce in 2001. These days I'm under professor Keith Owen.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+dragonballjiujitsu who gave you your black belt? You in ID or MT?

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

No one. I'm not black belt yet...lol I'm in Tennessee and I have professor Owen down twice per year to test me and my students.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

want me to see if we can get Prof Dave Kama out to your school?

[@cagedraptor]

I see the point, and can agree with it. I just think that people are to hung up about belts. I have always said if you want to judge my skill in being able to teach something, come watch or better yet, join in on a class. I know a lot of really good and skilled martial artists who make crappy instructors. A black belt in any art isn't an automatic guarantee you are a good instructor in that art.

[@oldmanwhitebelt1131]

I just discovered your content and I love it. I go to a school that videotapes tests and sends them to CA for grading. I also have multiple great instructors contributing to my development. What's the proper respect in this scenario? Does it by default go the teacher who puts the belt on you? Thanks!

[@varsitybjj3095]

Proud to be part of Rickson lineage training under Murilo Santana, currently. My coach for first 6 years before that received purple and brown from Marcelo Garcia and Lucas Lepri respectively. Such wealth of knowledge and experience. However, there are plenty of just average practitioners within great lineages and loads of killers who trained in their basement or under unknowns. (see: Craig Jones 🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊).... As a beginning instructor of a great squad of kids and white belt adults, I teach my students to do the techniques to a T and then develop their game and expand. I take a lot of pride in representing this art and benefiting from such great martial artists giving so much of themselves to their students.

[@varsitybjj3095]

Not trying to plug anything, but in the spirit of the fact that it is possible to train with the best in our sport, I host people who want to come to New York and facilitate their experience training with whomever or whatever school they choose as well as open mat at my gym.

[@mikem1825]

Mine is from Rigan Machado. My instructor is one of Rigan's students and also one of his black belts. Even my instructor says we are Rigan Machado students.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

He is, for sure.

[@TenToesCat]

Very respectable professor!

[@panzerfaust1322]

Legit

[@davidyu9747]

Hey Ryan got a question. This topic totally makes sense. So the legendary story is that Maeda taught Carlos Gracie Sr. However, there are also other tales that Carlos was actually mostly taught by a few others such as Donato Pires, and I think another individual whose name escapes me. I'd like to get your thoughts on this, as it seems as if it's similar to someone claiming to be Rickson BB, but was taught by Professor xxx. Thanks

[@SKCodesForFun]

My bjj lineage is Ronald Mcdonald gracie. He taught me the unbeatable technique of out eating your opponent and flopping down on them.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Uhmmmokaaay.

[@businessmanph]

Your word is bond

[@TheMass33]

Thank you so much for this video. I just subscribed. I want to start training soon. And your videos have helped with my decisions on which school I want to go to. I eventually want to teach to the less fortunate and in Puerto Rico. Self defense aspect of GJJ. Thank you.

[@brucebousquet1431]

great idea i teach sice 24 year , now in south east asia thinking about teaching for poor people also , you re on a great mindset

[@jiujitsujourney1858]

Mitsuyo Maeda>Carlos Gracie>Carlson Gracie>Sandro Sampaio>me

[@ivagal11]

Boils down to ego, “I’m a real ____ belt because I got mine from _____.” It’s interesting how no matter what it is, humans always manage to fuck it up with ego. I’m enjoying the journey that is Jiu Jitsu. Much respect, thanks for the videos.

[@Docinaplane]

My grappling BJJ lineage is KZbin :-) I wrestled a little in college. My goal is to acquire martial arts skills. Don't be too hard on me, I've only been doing it for 6 months, and I think I'm making real progress.

[@aircombatmaneuvers]

It s simple and applies to any martial art. You have a master that belongs to an academy. So that master is the one that trains you and put your black belt. The academy certifies that your master s decision of giving your belt is ok. You compete with your academy patch and your master team patch. lets say you get your black belt from master A that is under master B that is under master C . What happens is that you will start training not also under master A but also under grand master B that will start teaching you directly and so on, then when you are 6 degree black belt you will train under grand grand master D who teaches A, B and C . So the martial art system is always that grand grand masters teachs grand master who teach master etc all under the same academy of that grand grand master. And that is the lineage, it has sense only if you keep training and advancing so you can pass these teachings to others.

[@1234kingconan]

Most people don’t know what you know about being a ____ purple belt. They don’t understand the significance of it.

[@BlaklyteTV]

Lineage: Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Helio Gracie > Rickson Gracie > Shane Rice. I have to say that I feel extremely privileged to be training under Shane.

[@IvanMorales-tf3kc]

Kano>Maeda>Helio Gracie> Amelio Arruda> Evilascio Riveiro> Fabricio Rodríguez...old school bjj linage :)

[@brucefraser4058]

I got my black belt via a 3rd degree black belt who trains and teaches under a Gracie affiliate in Brazil...I will never call myself a Gracie black belt. So yes I stand with you....

[@joeallen2354]

Hey, if the school is marketing a name there is nothing wrong with claiming that name. For example, when i trained at Crosley Gracie's school i told people i was a Crosley Gracie student. If it was relevant to the conversation i would tell people that our primary instructor was one of his black belts named Brian. Crosley didnt do much teaching in our class but it was his school, his name on the building, his name on my gi, his name on the contract i signed, and his bank account my fees went into. Im a Renzo Gracie student now because thats what the school says i am and thats how they market the school. To be frank, i dont really know who Renzo is (ive only been to two classes) but if I'm expected to show this man the respect a student affords a teacher then i dont think it is dishonest to say he is my teacher.

[@davibourne3856]

My lineage... Helio Gracie Royler Gracie Jorge Brito James Frank

[@leepowell85]

I've only ever trained no gi for a couple of years at a more mma focused school. Now I'm really interested in gi jiu jitsu and I love the history. One of my only 4 local gi jiu jitsu schools is an alliance gym. The professor at this school received his Blue belt from Rubens "Charles" Cobrinha his Purple belt from Romero "Jacare" Cavalcanti, his Brown belt and Black Belt from Lucas Lepri.

[@BeginnerMindset]

John Giotis, Emerson Souza , Carlos Gracie Jr .. combined with cross training with Renzo / Serra

[@nadenekawamura7897]

My lineage flows thru to romolo barrio that is under rickson. Trust me I met them before at class lol

[@phuckfumassters]

I know this goes on a lot in the BJJ world. A local academy in my state pushes heavily their Carlos Machado lineage but the head instructor got his BB from someone else who actually got his BB from Carlos. All their Gi has large Carlos Machado name on it. If you don't know any better you think Carlos Machado teaches their besides him doing once or twice a year seminars at that school.

[@ryansmith9138]

Over the years iv come to get annoyed at some aspects of Judo, especially the rule changes but one of the one things i Do like is we don't have this strange obsession with lineage. the Belt just holds your Gi together and even a black belt isn't that impressive in judo. perhaps when you get the red and white 6th Dan then that's impressive and that's normally awarded by the countries governing body for services to the sport.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Wouldn’t you like to be have been one trained directly under Kano, Mifune, or Kimura? THAT my friend, is how lineage matters to some people. If it doesn’t matter to you (because you never got to train under any of them or their direct students), that would be understandable, as well.

[@eddietheblasian2043]

I like this a lot, don't understand why you wouldn't be proud of your professor.

[@cabalofdemons]

Keep it simple: Whoever gave you the black belt is the name that should be on the certificate. BJJ politics makes things complicated, but it's important to document who gave you your belt and when you got it.

[@cabalofdemons]

Technically yes, which is why this thing is complicated. You can always list your whole lineage from white to black belt. You went up to brown through a Relson school and got your black belt through Machado. The lineage is legit, so claim all of it.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+sienna three that’s a tough call, for sure. Only that person really knows, but the fact of the matter is, Relson didn’t feel that person warranted a black belt. I know of a black belt whom Relson left him stranded at brown belt. He had to get his black belt from someone else. He calls himself a black belt under the one who gave him the black belt.

[@pedrovillelabjj3163]

Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie Sr. > Reylson Gracie > Paulo Maurício Strauch > Me

[@noobzoar]

I was just talking to a friend about this because a gym near him says they teach gracie jiujitsu but have no lineage information so i told him thats kinda sketchy I would look elsewhere to train

[@travisramirez6616]

I would feel terrible claiming my BJJ blue is from JJM indeed of my teacher DD.

[@guybguyb8791]

Awesome video! I agree 100%. A persons real teacher that they actually train with should get the credit. Not the person they got there belt from at a seminar.

[@wagutoxD]

Honesty, Respect, Honor, Greatfulness...

[@halehualalai]

Your videos are great, mahalos!

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+Hale Hualalai tanks!

[@Eli_skips]

I respect your honesty. Keep up with the videos and you’ll get 1000 students plus seminars. You already have credibility. Wish there is a school in Austin, tx.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Master Dave and I can make a trip out there...

[@Eli_skips]

My mind set at this point of life has been just learning as much as possible. I would probably wear a white belt for life to show that I will continue on learning new aspects of the art. I preferred just the white and blue belt ( professor) system. Totally understand why in today’s society there needs to be belts. Guess it would take years for that white belt turn black😂

[@Eli_skips]

If a seminar ever happens. Looking forward to attending.

[@gxtmfa]

We have two lineages and we try to respect both. One of our coach’s instructors left the state after promoting our coach to brown belt. Then, our coach got a new professor.

[@asepulveda1202]

Another great one! Maestros Onzuka Hawaii (O2) Maestro Hosaka Hawaii (O2) Maestro T. Hopkins (Bushido) I am a Maestro Hopkins Purple belt under Relson Gracie Association. now at F2 Florida...... another subject. Haha. Maestro Ryan funny you say that, because a similar situation happened to be while stationed overseas. I as a Combatives instructor decided to open a class base wide with the help of the task force Sergeant Major. This class would include self defense....... I respectfully asked My teachers in Ohio and Hawaii if I could teach the SD curriculum and a few days later I was up and running. 2nd day a navy guy shows up claiming to be a purple belt under Maestro O. From O2 in Hawaii. I made a call, sent an email and the guy was nearly anything but an MMA enthusiast. The following day - he was asked to roll and was exposed for who he really was. None the less he licked his wounds and never returned. Be who you are!!!!!! This world of ours is a small one.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

LOL! everyone claims to be belted under the legends at O2!! alas, but only a few can claim that lineage... great for you guys. sucks for everyone else outside lookin' in.

[@mako2534]

Whoa, start off and you bring up my instructor, awesome.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+Makoto 👍😉

[@JustMeELC]

Good advice in all things... just be who you are.

[@folumb]

I never knew this mattered. Can you roll with other black belts of your level? It's so human nature to zoom and focus on the tiniest of matters, split hairs over the smallest difference.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

We can train/roll with anyone we want.

[@DBtwenty2]

For real though. New to jiu-jitsu (3 months in- 2 stripe white belt) but your videos always detail some random aspect of jiu-jitsu that I wasn't expecting but am ALWAYS interested in. Keep up the good work big fella

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+Barry McCockyner thanks, Barry.

[@JohnKolinofsky]

Love your videos man. Not sure what your thoughts are on Gracie Barra but just started training at Gracie Barra Carrollton - not too far from your neck of the woods but I’m having a blast. Would love to drop by your gym sometime to check it out as well. Glad to see Jiu Jitsu growing in DFW!

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+John Kolinofsky We've got a new place in Flower Mound and we'd love to see you there! Check back tomorrow because we've got a new video showing it off!

[@crashendodt]

So lets say I open a school, and I get into Kama Team. I'm for example blue belt and I'm far away so I see once a year one of Dave's black belts or him. I train everyone, learn from tapes, go maybe to some other seminars or something else... My school is now open for few years and Dave got me a mentor at the start of the journey so he gives me my purple, brown or black belt... Whose student am I now? My own? Just an example of what happens in Europe sometimes...

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+Crashendo Dt let’s cross that bridge if/when we approach it.

[@billee06x]

But what if I am a zero level. Can this be taught to me?

[@aztec5530]

First of all I would like to say your videos are great very informative can u make a video explaining or about the dirty dozen I've heard them mentioned before but don't know much about them. Keep up the great work and awesome videos.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Thought about it once, but I’ve met or known just 4 of them.

[@joeallen2354]

I'm not really sure. I started training in Dearborn MI under sensei Peterson who taught traditional martial arts as well as BJJ. Then I moved to CA. and trained at Crosley Gracies school under one of his instructors named Bryan. Then I moved to TN where I train under several different instructors at a club that falls under the Carlos Gracie umbrella. So I'll ask you: What is my real BJJ lineage?

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

🤷‍♂️

[@joeallen2354]

@@KamaJiuJitsu I don't know either lol

[@desiacosta7805]

Thanks for your honesty 👊

[@SandorTheHound3]

Prof Ryan, This topic is especially important to me and wish to get your opinion. Where I live there is no true GJJ self defense school. Only sport stuff. I started GJJ because of the Gracie University online stuff. I have a small garage and a couple of dedicated partners and we roll and train that way, plus sport schools. After a year and a half and completing the combatives course and Blue Belt Stripe One I submitted my application for live testing with the Academy and set up my live blue belt test with Jorge Jiménez (3 Stripe black belt under Pedro Sauer) near Atlanta. He tested me and my training partner and certified for Gracie Academy our technique as Blue Belt. My belt was awarded to me by Ryron at a seminar with Jorge there. My certificate has his and Ryron's on it. In your opinion who should I say I am under? If anyone as I train mostly at my garage. Thanks

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+SandorTheHound3 that is a DAMN good question... who “teaches” you what to do, step by step? Is it the GU online sequence of techniques and concepts on video, or is it a particular black belt not named Ryron/Rener?

[@SandorTheHound3]

Kama Jiu-Jitsu The answer to your question of "Who teaches me what to do" is long. I am not sure how familiar you are with Gracie University and their CTC (certified training center) system so I may tell you stuff you know already, but for completeness... The way I am forced to learn, because of where I live and limited access to true self defense GJJ, is a three tier approach. 1- I study the online curriculum via the Gracie University videos like a class for college. I keep a notebook etc. Then my partner and I drill to get the mechanics down. If there are problems with our execution I note them and rewatch the video looking for missed details. Repeat as necessary. Once the mechanics are learned we do "rapid mastery drills" till failure of the technique based on three opponent types, Strong, Skilled, and punching. Further problems always become evident at this point and more study of the video is required. Plus we trouble shoot with each other to help solve the problem. Eventually it is solved via a missed video detail or some other weight or timing detail. Once confidence is gained the second tier happens 2- Take the technique to different sport schools were I train at open mats or for a couple of days during my travels. This is the real testing ground of the technique. Again note problems and attempt to solve by more study of the videos etc. 3-Final tier is three days a week I drive an hour and a half (one way) to the closest CTC to me run by a 2 stripe Blue Belt. There we train the same techniques I learned from the videos with other blue belts and again put the technique to the test. Wash rinse repeat from above. This process is slow going but very effective. Meaning once learned this way I feel very comfortable with the technique and it's execution. That was why I found the highest belt I could to test in person with for my Blue Belt. I really wanted to see if I had the technique down. Jorge was great he kicked our butts for two hours and gave great feedback and I try to get to his place when I can but he is three hours away one way. So it only happens once a month or so. So the answer to your question is my teacher is Ryron/Rener via the videos and the "hard knocks" of mat time plus anyone I can train with. I wish I had Kama Jiu-jitsu near me but I don't and between this and nothing... Nothing isn't an option. Thanks for taking the time to talk and keep up the good work. The people you help are lucky to have you.

[@jiujitsuguy74]

G.U. lineage: Maeda>Carlos>Helio>Rorion>Rener & Ryron> you

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

that's what i was thinking.

[@jiujitsuguy74]

Yeah, even though it’s not in person, they’re still your primary source of instruction.

[@RedSplinter36]

My lineage is all over the place haha! First and foremost... Gracies by way of Paul Vunak and then machado through Inosanto... and finally a magaton Dias black belt Curtis Hill whom I correctly roll with here in Colorado. The professor who ties my belts around my waist.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Master Kenny Gabrielson (7th Degree Reylson Gracie Coral Belt and #2 on Dirty Dozen) is in CO, as well. He is also an early Vunak standout.

[@RedSplinter36]

Kama Jiu-Jitsu this is something I must check out! O.o I had no clue haha thank you sir!

[@felixerazo9800]

Renzo Gracie lineage...Carlos Gracie

[@russellbracey3831]

Curious to see what your qualifications for each belt are! Would you do a video on that?

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

That’s pretty detailed BUT, I did a video of what to think about for each level.

[@psyience3213]

We're entering a time where instructors are 4th, 5th, 6th generation teachers. It's funny because in bjj it's important to understand your lineage like how it's important to know your heritage. I'm lucky enough to be taught by a successful, immediate predecessor of Francisco Mansor. My location is pretty good though, there are plenty of legit gyms around.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

i know what you're meaning, but the "predecessor" to GM Francisco is GM Helio. where are you?

[@psyience3213]

Kama Jiu-Jitsu true, but then again i dont even know gm mansor, i just know my professor, that he had an awesome teacher, who had an awesome teacher. It was definitely a factor when choosing to train there and I think otters pretty deserved. I'm in long island, New York. City not included, there are great gyms out here. A 10th planet even just opened up.

[@matthewray5343]

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying you're a Relson Gracie Black Belt if he was the one who gave it to you (assuming you at least tested for it in front of him). It means that Relson approved your skill in accordance to his standards and curriculum and that you are representing him and his academy as a black belt. Otherwise when we compete we would instead wear the name of our instructor on our gis. I think what is unethical or untrue is to say relson taught you or you learned from relson. I think of it like gracie university. Even though I've never trained with rener or ryron but i've learned from their videos and tested with their approval and given a belt by them, I can say I am a blue belt under Rener and ryron gracie. So in that same regard a relson gracie affiliate instructor acts as the representative of relson by teaching what relson taught but through himself. The instructor in this instance is the video and relson is the one giving the approval. Now where this wouldn't work is if the person claiming to be a relson gracie BB actually received it from an relson instructor (who did train with relson and receive his belt from him) that opened his own academy and is no longer is associated with relson. The approval came not from relson nor from relsons curriculum or standard but rather the instructors. This is actually very common in most martial arts. I've even heard gracie's say things like "I have thousands of students all over the world". Because his instructors are teaching in his name as an extension of himself to people all over the world. If affiliate instructors have a problem with not receiving credit for ones black belt then they should open their own academies. I'm not saying to not give credit towards someone who taught you but you do not represent that person when you do competition right? It kind of reminds me of the biblical doctrine of apostolic succession. Jesus gave his authority unto the apostles to give that same authority unto the believer. The apostles rejected any credit and gave it all to jesus because it was jesus' authority they were giving and not their own. Now if that instructor is teaching his own style then sure now it's not relson gracies system in which case that instructor needs to open his own academy.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

if Relson tests you after being instructed by someone else, you are not a Relson black belt, even if you're up to his standards. Ryron and Rener got their black belts with Helio's blessing. heck, he might have even put the belts on them. still makes them Rorion Gracie black belts. If I am up to GM Rickson's standards and he was there when i received my black belt... heck, if he tied it around my waist... i'm still a Dave Kama Black Belt. As far as the GU stuff... even though it's their material and instruction... i still have a hard time putting a GU student on the same plane as a Gracie Academy student who attends their classes regularly. but i admit, i'm on the fence on that one. everyone has their own individual journeys. in the end, all that matters is your proficiency and skill. as far as having "thousands of students around the world"... i call bullshit. but whatever. not my personal issue/exaggeration.

[@matthewray5343]

When one says they are a black belt UNDER *insert instructor*, the word under means "authority" and who they are "representing". It in no way implies at face value that the person trained with said instructor. This would be so if they said "I train with relson." If I get my drivers license, I am licensed to operate a vehicle under the state of Ohio, not the driving instructor. My license doesn't include my driving instructor in that, because his job is to make sure I am up to the standards of the state. I can say instructor x taught me to drive but I wouldn't be correct to say I am authorized (or under his authority) by instructor x to drive a car. If I get my college degree, I am not under the authority of my professors, I am under the authority of the school/education board that they represent. Now there is a difference in your comparison. When you compete do you represent Kama or Rickson? I'd imagine Kama, correct? Your school is Kama jiu jitsu and not Rickson Jiu Jitsu. I imagine Kama opened a school under his name expecting direct credit for his students (absolutely nothing wrong with that). I don't see it the same way if the school is an actual relson gracie academy (rather than just an academy that is associated with him). But lets grant that it is true that one needs to have trained directly with said instructor for he or she to be considered a BB under them, then even people who originally trained at rickson's school can't say they are black belts under rickson because rickson had student instructors teach classes too, right? What about those who have trained under all the gracies back in brazil where you had a different gracie teaching a class? Also if we follow that principle then most 2nd-9th degree black and red belts under a gracie aren't under said gracie because they didn't train with him during those degrees (since by that time you don't train with them and are running your own academy away from the person who awarded you the belt). The degrees are awarded by the authority that they are under. Sure one can argue that so long as they originally gave them the belt then they don't have to be directly training with that instructor in order to get legitimate degrees on their black belt under them (which is special pleading) but then you run into another problem. Let's say if you are like Travis tooke who changes his association every month. He was a Carlos gracie jr BB but doesn't get his degree through carlos because he switched associations. Does that mean he is still under carlos for his next stripes since he was awarded following his BB? We would all agree that isn't the case. Yes he did train under carlos and was given the bb but he is NO LONGER UNDER HIS AUTHORITY. Please Don't misunderstand me. I am not trying to be disrespectful by disagreeing nor am I saying an instructor doesn't deserve credit. My instructor is exactly that, my instructor. but also my mentor and friend of course. If People ask where I learned what I know, I don't say relson, I say my instructor. I am a black belt under relson authority through my instructor. This could all just be semantics at this point. Either way I respectfully agree to disagree on this.

[@DBtwenty2]

Yu dope bruh.Keep up da chill vidz

[@salimelyazidi306]

i have a question : what if u live really far, i mean a continent away from some black/red belt who u are under or affiliated with and who has awarded u the black belt (Not sure about lower belts though), and this new awarded black belt has other affiliations which both are under the name and association of the first black/red belt. Taking into account that one of those affiliations last mentioned has a guy with a 3 stripes blue belt and who is the only main instructor. Do i consider my self under the blue belt guy who teached and still teaching me or the black belt guy who comes only for seminars and who awarded me my stripes or the black/red belt who is gonna put the blue or purple... etc on my waist?

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+Salim EL YAZIDI you’re under your teacher, the blue belt.

[@salimelyazidi306]

Thank you for the quick response.

[@joshuakeeler82]

Splitting hairs. Because of branding people use what brother they recieved their belt underneath to delineate style and produce legitimacy. Because if I say, "I'm a Royce guy" or "I'm a Robert Dryvesdale" or "Im a Ciao Terra guy" that identifies the flavor I am. Most people are not trying to be deceptive they are trying to anchor your mind to something you will be familiar with. There will always be frauds.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

The “frauds” are the ones who lie about who trained them and refer to themselves as a black belt under their professor’s Master. Shoot, why don’t I just go to the top and say I’m an Helio GRACIE Black Belt?

[@joshuakeeler82]

@@KamaJiuJitsu I am a "Gracie Humaita" affiliation. This is how I refer to myself. When you name your association with your first name then people will call themselves after you, if they are in that association. Because they made their name part of the marketing. The inference is that you practice his jiu-jitsu. If they named their association twin dragons then people would say that. I agree with you. But I also understand why people do it and it's not discouraged enough. People are name droppers because other people place value in fame and they think they can co-opt that fame by using the name of a gracie or another famous person.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Yes, you are correctly referring to yourself as a “Gracie Humaita X belt.” You’re not a “Royler (or Rolker) Gracie X belt.” Seems you understand my point. And it’s not splitting hairs.

[@33iknow]

Interesting. Thanks for the insights...

[@whoisthisis138]

Taking from the hypothetical story you told couldn’t they say like “I’m a Relson purple belt under professor blank.? like because of the difference in styles they want to represent. Or even you would be a Rickson black belt under Kama . Or just not mention the name altogether and just say bjj ? I mean they are all a bit different but I do agree with what you say as well.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

I’ll never say I’m a Rickson BB, even though the jiu-Jitsu I do is Rickson’s jiu-Jitsu. Dave Kama is a Rickson BB, though. Would Dave be an Helio BB?

[@whoisthisis138]

Kama Jiu-Jitsu haha I started thinking that too!! One could just say “I’m a Helio B.B. under Rickson, under jimmy, under ect.” I totally and understand and agree with you though!

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

😂

[@tusccountyjiujitsu]

Relson Gracie in Ohio is Robin Geisler out of Columbus. I get your point though. Good video.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

+BlackDaggerJitsu right on. Thanks. The single one I chose out of the 49 NOT named Hawaii, lol.

[@spaceace41]

I attend Relson Gracie Ohio in Columbus, great school.