What Science Tells us about Race and Racism

You can also download this talk as a podcast. Listen here, or search Ri Science Podcast in your app of choice: / ri-science-podcast
An evidence-based discussion of the controversial topic of race, as science sees it. Do races even exist, biologically? Adam Rutherford hosts a panel of experts, including Kenan Malik, Aoife McLysaght and Heidi Mirza.
Subscribe for regular science videos: bit.ly/RiSubscRibe
Heidi Mirza is Professor of Race, Faith & Culture at the Department of Sociology at Goldsmiths University. Her work focuses on gender, race, faith and culture using postcolonial and black feminist theoretical frameworks.
Kenan Malik is a writer, lecturer and broadcaster. His latest book is 'The Quest for a Moral Compass: A Global History of Ethics.' He also writes on his blog Pandaemonium, which welcomes debate from anyone.
Aoife McLysaght is a professor in the Molecular Evolution Lab at the Smurfit Institute of Genetics, Trinity College Dublin. She also spends a lot of time communicating her work to the public. Watch Aoife’s discourse: • Copy number variation ... and short films: • Chromosome (24) mtDNA ...
The Ri is on Twitter: / ri_science
and Facebook: / royalinstitution
and Tumblr: / ri-science
Our editorial policy: www.rigb.org/home/editorial-po...
Subscribe for the latest science videos: bit.ly/RiNewsletter

[@ahmedismail823]

I am a black African who lives in the USA. I was at my doctor's office who was trying to evaluate my risk of heart disease. For that purpose, she asked me a series of questions and fed the answers to a computer program which concluded I have higher risk of heart disease. One of the questions that I found useless was my race. The available choice of my race was: black/African American. I thought the only reason why African Americans would have similar risk profile would be having similar lifestyle none of which I shared. So, I asked the doctor to change my race to Asian and rerun the program. The result was that my risk of heart disease dropped to negligible even though the doctor who was Asian told me that Asians have higher risk of heart disease. Needless to say my doctor and I concluded that the program was useless for the purpose of my risk for heart disease.

[@KMims747]

You are a black African in America thus African American similar to Italian American.

[@talibahmuhammad9844]

Interesting!

[@whitejack9032]

Race is a socail construct until reality hits them in the face

[@arash4712]

I can't comment on your physician, but what I can say is that evolution, genetics and epigenetic, as well as the environment has made us who we are. There are certain traits that are due to genetics..., such as height, heart disease, skin pigmentation and so on. These are scientifically proven facts. Others, such as which political party one support...is not. In my view, it is great that we can share scientific findings; by publishing papers etc. and open up the honest debate, for today and tomorrow.

[@sErgEantaEgis12]

I don't know the exact details about your situation, or the program used, but there are human groups that are more vulnerable to certain diseases. For instances French-Canadians have higher than average rate of intestinal diseases.

[@vanakneon621]

So many triggered commenters doubting the expertise of people who work on this topic their whole carrer. Makes you think

[@saintmay1952]

Lol

[@helenaville5939]

Only a closed mind would complain about people questions the opinions of others. You are obviously someone who believes the opinions of "experts" must be considered sacred and must never be questioned. That is very sad. Unless you are someone who is open-minded and forms his own opinions rather than adopt the thoughts and beliefs of others, you will never be truly educated.

[@kudjoeadkins-battle2502]

@@helenaville5939 all of their arguments are incredulous

[@maxheadrom3088]

There's a fun story about the hand thing: Jô Soares, the son of a Brazilian banker, educated in Switzerland, polyglot and comedian once wrote about the hushed meeting he had with a watchmaker at the airport in Switzerland when he was returning to Brazil. The watchmaker had just finished repairing a rare watch for him and they set a meeting at the airport. The watch had been delivered by mail to be repaired so they had never met. Because of the value and rarity of the piece, they were careful setting up the meeting: Jô Soares had a red carnation on his suit and the watchmaker was wearing a hat with a yellow feather. When both met they started laughing: Soares was the fattest guy in the airport and the watchmaker was missing the left ear. Sometimes the hand thing is just the hand thing.

[@imanimalaika7734]

Cultural differences are conflated with physical characteristics common to geographical areas. People with curly hair have that in common, no matter what color their skin is. Race is a social construct based on the practice of exploitation.

[@AkiraIsMissing]

People also forget that race itself is arbitrary, and has no real bearing on differences between individuals

[@AkiraIsMissing]

@Mateo Hodge bruh you're 2 months late smh

[@MrBooYa-yd5er]

Try telling that to Jared Tayler. Only through censorship can you win.

[@MrBooYa-yd5er]

@@AkiraIsMissing there’s nothing wrong with generalities. Obviously individuals can overcome those generalities but they are in general still true.

[@jericoblaynecarlton9726]

Your comment is a excellent description of what I have a terrible inner understanding of what racism by DNA ethnicity really was created for as its purpose. We are all, even the ones in the know are deceived truly by it and it’s creator who made it a weapon to do what God forbid the devil from doing in taking our life making us dead. The enemy planted seed through many ways for it to be a weapon greater than all humanity mass destruction weapon. Use bible, history, war books, disease outbreaks, and all extinctions and only look for blame in what humans actually did and you see how the devil schemed to attack all humans eventually extinction all.

[@FrancisRoyCA]

At 45:37 Aoife McLysaght nails it. a) We don't control our genetics. b) We have no option but to live with those. c) Genetic traits get confused with cultural or environmental variables. d) Some people mistake genetics for destiny. e) This is where the belief that some races are superior to others comes in "All of the good things are clustered in me, all of the bad things are clustered in you." Can we all agree that what we're looking for is for people, personally, culturally and legally, to treat each other impartially, fairly and with kindness, and that the key to this is the application of critical thinking, without having to resort to the kind of nonsense we've been hearing so far?

[@FrancisRoyCA]

You'll have to find someone else to agree with you, I don't. Your point of view is as simplistic and uninformed as your average SJW. There is a space beyond batshit and crazy that allows for considering facts and a multitude of variables.

[@cartoonphilosopher2577]

Francis Roy What did I say that you disagree with?

[@superjam18]

+CartoonPhilosopher you say that blacks are where they're supposed to be. on the bottom but when it came to asians why do you not say that they are where they're supposed to be. on the topm

[@superjam18]

+CartoonPhilosopher im not disputing on wether what you said is true or not but what you implied by using the word "supposed" as in that is the way things ought to be from now until the end of all exisitence. you said blacks are "supposed" to be on the bottom. If this is true then why did you not say that asians are "supposed" to be on top?

[@cartoonphilosopher2577]

superjam18 OK, I don't see what the big deal is.

[@xenomancer1]

Only one scientist on a panel about science? Why am I not surprised?

[@jamesh625]

+xenomancer Because you're wrong? Kenan Malik was trained as a neurobiologist and has worked as a research psychologist. Aoife is a geneticist. The host also said that he used to be a geneticist (but I can't find his name and so can't Google him). Heidi is a sociologist (social *scientist*). If you watch what Aoife said, she said that race doesn't exist as a genetic concept. So it makes sense that the discussion has a sociological and cultural base.

[@grimreaper9040]

+jamesh625 hahaha, there are people that delusional, good thing shes not a doctor, shed kill off her black patients for not believing in race

[@jamesh625]

+xenomancer Adam Rutherford is a geneticist. "His PhD thesis subject was the role of a specific gene (CHX10) on eye development, with focus on the effect of mutations in this gene on the development of eye disorders." (Wiki)

[@steve1]

+xenomancer 3 scientists and a "social scientist"

[@davidpovey01]

+jamesh625 "The host also said that he used to be a geneticist (but I can't find his name and so can't Google him)" Are you not reading the intro "Adam Rutherford hosts a panel of experts," Dr. Adam Rutherford is (not used to be) a geneticist as well as being an author and broadcaster. I can highly recommend his book 'Creation: The Origin of Life / The Future of Life I, like you, do not understand Xenomancers remark or point.

[@nino2u]

The most interesting thing about this video isn’t the video. It’s the comments. Yes, the speakers appeared awkward. And yes, I could agree that there was circular reasoning. But, it’s not entirely their fault. Whenever anyone wants to have a serious talk about race, it’s met with hostility. Maybe they wouldn’t be so awkward, if they knew that the conversation would be truly productive. Instead of listening to what they were trying to say, I see comments against them for even trying! Race does exist, but not necessarily in a physical manifestation, but not entirely social. It straddles the fence. Physically, we are mostly superficially different. Socially, we are customarily different. But the affects of the classification of race are very real. I would hope that some of the people in this comment section would pay more attention to what they are trying to get at, and ADD to the conversation! Maybe then people wouldn’t feel so damn afraid to talk about it. The only real problem I have with video is the absence of a group of people most affected by racial classification... Black

[@lukeav6097]

I don't find them awkward

[@vhawk1951kl]

can you give an example of what you call the "circular reasoning"?

[@talibahmuhammad9844]

Good observation Black people are missing.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@talibahmuhammad9844 There no "black people", there are only men (human beings)

[@bruggeman672]

Poverty affects people of every "race" regardless of what this woman wants to allege.

[@walteralexis-bey9286]

Colonialism and the cast system, not poverty or Race is what the "White Supremacists" developed with the help of the Hindustani "Chamchas" by proliferation.

[@bruggeman672]

@@walteralexis-bey9286 can't stay on point huh? Try to pay attention, or don't comment.

[@alephmale3171]

Poverty affects people of every race, for sure. But some people, especially black Americans, have experienced poverty and suppression of education for the last few centuries more than most other Americans have, including immigrants, and complete legal freedom for blacks has only been attained in the US over the last couple of generations, if at all.

[@bruggeman672]

@@alephmale3171 as have plenty of white people. That's precisely the problem. Why can't people acknowledge white people can also be poor? Stop trying to pretend otherwise, which is what your "well actually" BS does...

[@boser_ketchup3101]

​@@bruggeman672obviously its not ONLY poverty. It's also about culture, about upbringing etc.

[@wilburmcbride8096]

Why do humans hate to admit that we have differences? Do everyone has to be a complete clone of each other to get along?

[@couponnation]

We may have differences but we are still human, and we want the same things love, respect, equality.

[@denise3422]

I wondered what is so wrong about being different in nature there are many many differences. I love my culture and Sun kissed complexion and how God the ultimate artictect created me. We are all not the same and I wished people understood there's a reason we are not carbon copies of each other.

[@wilburmcbride8096]

@@thechristfollower1723 You are definitely on to something, especially considering it's the government pushing the "we are one theory"

[@INIMICAL213]

Remember people with money and those who believe that are they are the pure race or the ones that jealous of other cultures because they don't have one hence the fakeness of white people that don't exist or black people that don't exist Look at all the different religions there is only one religion and that's the belief in God not Christian not Muslim not Jewish Not Catholic Just believe in God. Is your religion God gave us the mind to think for ourselves but people don't like other people thinking for themselves they think they should be controlled God gave a self will keep having self will and thinking for yourself for yourself not nobody else

[@phillipgaley4416]

@@denise3422 The thing which makes the ruminations of these fools uninteresting is that, be the primary consideration true that, above all are we spiritual and not in the first instance physical, . . . like, "Arbite Macht Frei" now continues for our time as, "There is no God", . . .

[@franciswanyoike8142]

The Kenyans you referred to come from one locality and from a similar ethnic group. The most important factor in the group is mentorship. Big sports names have continued to inspire the youth to excel in sports.

[@ironman5034]

,,, oh,,,,,，😊😊😊，点按剪贴 to,,容即可将其粘贴到文本 bmo 1:15:30 😅😊😊😊😊😊e😊😊j😅😊😊中。，

[@ironman5034]

,,, oh,,,,,，😊😊😊，点按剪贴 to,,容即可将其粘贴到文本 bmo 1:15:30 😅😊😊😊😊😊e😊😊j😅😊😊中。，

[@aegisltd2018]

See the body language of the panellists as Heidi answers the last question, heads bowed, toes turned inwards, avoiding looking at Heidi and even Heidi seeking validation with her last phrase; yet these are the experts! If the experts are so uncomfortable discussing race and racism, what to expect of mere mortals like us?

[@dpedroam4107]

They seem to just contradict themselves the whole way through.

[@jeff-xm7fg]

I don't think race as a term for describing differences between groups of people (biological, geographical, etc.) is the problem, but rather the value judgments that go into defining race - How the criteria for race are selected, and the meaning or value of the factors used to define the criteria for race. Racism doesn't come people having different skin tones, but from the values we attach to that fact. I think the cycle cell anemia analogy was great for showing the effect of limited social imagination (bias/racism).

[@axiom.ai.obviousbattletank7139]

What about differences regarding race? I.e. one's melanin affects their daily rituals...?

[@grenner0]

Inevitably classification leads to value judgements. Human beings are afflicted with tribalism. The underlying purpose of classifying is to identify “others” outside one’s social group whether it be appearance, location, culture, etc.

[@axiom.ai.obviousbattletank7139]

Culture.

[@evaosirus6055]

Sure it wouldn’t be a problem if it wasn’t created with the intention to humanize specific groups but it was. That can’t be separated, the context is critical. With that being said people in Russia aren’t regarded as different races even though by the same standards they total could be. They’re regarded as different ethnic cultures. I think that’s less problematic but still has issues. Defining people as a other makes a fertile environment for us/them mentality. When truly it’s just us.

[@MrBooYa-yd5er]

Racism is simply anti white nonsense used to justify the erasure of white populations.

[@UnderhillKoufax]

Correction to the speakers: The “father” of biological classification is Carl Linnaeus who lived in the 18th century. And philosophers/scientists were attempting to classify organisms since the ancient Greeks, the ancient Mesopotamians, and probably going back to the stone ages when people were learning predators/prey and what could be eaten and not eaten.

[@jamestcatcato7132]

Mesopotamians were.after the Egyptians,vthe last 30 uears of scholarship have proved this.

[@fitveganathleteintegrateda1695]

Linnaeus was the father biological classification and differences between species and clade divergences, leading to the inability to have viable offspring. Cuvier was using certain metrics to find rationalizations to identify populations. Social Darwinism lead to the racism of today.

[@nycbearff]

To take one of their examples, of big shoes being made for African Americans because a higher percentage of African Americans have bigger feet. Why not, instead, just make big shoes for anyone who has big feet? Why add race into the mix, since many non-African Americans have big feet and many African Americans have small feet - it's just the percentages which vary. In the U.S. we add race into everything, whether it has any meaning there or not. Usually not.

[@fomalhauto]

African American is not even a race The average African American is around 1/4 European with around 1/3 of African American males having European Y DNA haplogroups.

[@SeeThroughist]

It get your point but it was "Indigenous Native Americans" that she said Nike were making bigger shoes for 34:28

[@mrcummings2339]

Edgar - how did you get Native Americans mixed up with African Americans - pay attention - or you might be considered a racist.

[@SeeThroughist]

@@mrcummings2339 That's so "European American" of you lol 😜

[@mrcummings2339]

The fact that there was no room for a scientist of African descent on the panel speaks volumes about the power of Race and Racism.

[@vhawk1951kl]

Without reference to cognates or synonyms or descriptions or circularity, define race. More to the point define or say what you mean by "racism"? If there is no such thing as Race, does it not follow as the night the day that there is no such thing as racism? Are you using racism or racist as a cognate or synonym of sinful? - If so, which is the religion that makes It a sin?

[@helenaville5939]

@ Mr Cummings. You are being racist by suggesting only an African person should have been on the panel. What about all the other races? Don't they deserve a place too? I am just writing this comment to show you how silly your own comment was.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@helenaville5939 what does it matter whether or not he is whatever you mean by "racist"?- are you suggesting that it is sinful to adopt a particular view? If there is no such thing as race, do not racist and racism fall with it?? Why do you concern yourself with whether or not some particular phenomenon is sinful? According to which religion or what religion is such and such sinful?does it matter whether or not such and such is sinful? If so, why does it matter?- why the in session with sin? Is it sinful or objectionable not to like certain categories of phenomenon, and if so, why is it sinful or objectionable? Men (human beings) frequently attach the word ""wrong"two particular phenomena or manifestations, but if you ask them exactly what they seek to convey by the word "wrong", they very rarely havve any idea whatsoever.

[@Sammysapphira]

I remember when the Royal Institution was prestigious.

[@chestercastaneda4920]

>REEEEEEEE scientists aren't supporting my outdated belief system that was started in the 1700s along with belief of a flat earth REEEEEEE lol

[@DaveWard-xc7vd]

@@chestercastaneda4920 Eeeeeeeee my race is a failure.

[@mikhail5359]

Chester Castañeda Keep seething, truth doesn’t cease to exist even if you don’t believe in it.

[@belfon5855]

Wow!!!!! The guy in grey hair is genius, we all may have different genes, it is how we see things, what basis of classification we use, some people may classify people by color, others may classify by culture and color disappears.

[@TheIsmaelIsaac]

What if you have two individuals from the same culture but one is white and the other one is black?? How you are going to classify this?

[@dannyfargo9102]

@@TheIsmaelIsaac what do you call a black and a white person in the USA= ding, ding, ding, an American smh

[@TheIsmaelIsaac]

@@dannyfargo9102 lol you just said it

[@TheHesseJames]

@@dannyfargo9102 correct, the cultural similarities between a black and a white American are bigger than the similarities between either a black or a white American and an African or an European.

[@vhawk1951kl]

did you really mean to write "classify by culture and color(sic) disappears."? In pure English colour is spelt colour, but perhaps you are not familiar with pure English

[@jamesangus8504]

I found this informative and as precise as possible, given the difficulty of the topic. And the discussion is a necessary to have frequently.

[@jo18533]

Can we have the discussion now?

[@vhawk1951kl]

why is it "necessary"? What depends on what you call that "discussion". What function does "discussion" perform? What would be impossible without "discussion"? - What purpose does discussion serve?- why are you creatures so concerned withthis words?

[@vhawk1951kl]

what *is* the "difficulty" of the topic?- what makes it "difficult"?

[@vhawk1951kl]

What exactly i*Is* " the difficulty of the topic"? *Why* is it " difficult"?

[@rickelpers1820]

Racism is a judgment call according to the on lookers upbringing and the person who is being looked upon. Culture doesn’t fade easily. And living near another cultural can be exasperation if the barrier is strong enough and honorable. One’s culture doesn’t necessarily affect another’s unless the negative aspect bleeds over to bother the neighbors. Race is not a definable emotional experience. Factor included in that is what one experiencing another s may be the opposite for the other. There needs to be less selfishness for everyone. That being held would heal the wounds carried down for the origins.

[@ivanbarbosa81]

Who i AM isnt as important as what I do. Well Said Professor

[@sheilaallen2146]

I like her the lady in the gold sweater

[@vhawk1951kl]

The term "who" tends to indicate which of a number of possible candidates, for example who is Fred? Is that you are asking which of a number possible candidates is Fred? *What* am I is a more interesting question; who am I is a nonsense question aside from saying which from, or of of a number of possible candidates. If "who" does not indicate which of a number of possible candies what exactly does it indicate?

[@vhawk1951kl]

why does either matter?

[@timlandscheidt]

Ignoring for a moment the topic: What I found disappointing was that the panel didn't seem to have a common understanding of the underlying facts/science/whatever, and instead of clearing those differences up, or looking at some issue from several aspects, they seemed to be most keen not to challenge each other's (sometimes vague) views. For a panel discussion, this was a huge let-down. If this was meant to be a presentation, that vagueness also would have left a void: If there is not enough genetic variance in humans to consider "races" to exist, what are the numbers compared to other species? How many people are really obsessed with their ancestry? Etc. And, no, I'm not going to buy the book in the hope that it will be better :-).

[@hixidom2274]

This is what happens when you feminize science: Science is now all about discussing feelings and agreeing politely with each other.

[@KtotheG]

Race is an idea. But it's been refuted already, using science.

[@wilburmcbride8096]

@@KtotheG They didn't refute anything. We live in a society that nothing is relatively backed by science, only socially back.

[@dannyfargo9102]

@@hixidom2274 science is based on facts. Not what you're personal feelings are.. most people and I'm sorry to say but "white" people don't like to accept the fact because it shows that race was used to put certain groups over other groups

[@dannyfargo9102]

Of course you won't be buying the book, you're objective is not finding the true science, your just looking for points to fit your narrative

[@friendly9042]

Squirming and fear of honesty are not missing on this panel.

[@vhawk1951kl]

That is just the religion modernism which insists that is sinful to dislike people who are different from you, And Where there is sin there is religion. Where there is religion there will be an equal and opposite religion- Mostly because very few human beings like being called sinners, And religion is largely concerned with the sin if that isn't the very definition of religion which I define as any set of related *unquestioned* beliefs assumption presumptions and norms, which latter term embraces all that morals/ethics right/wrong good/evil mumbo-jumbo which is thee very essence of religion.

[@vhawk1951kl]

of course because the high priests of the religion modernism are always on the lookout for sin

[@FranzKafkaRockOpera]

@@vhawk1951kl Rather ironic of you to decry unquestioned beliefs since you seem to have engaged with very little of this nuanced talk, instead falling back on the incredibly hoary, borderline thought-killing cliché of progressivism (or "modernism", as you ahistorically insist on calling it) as religion.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@FranzKafkaRockOpera Not particularly interesting, and little more than whining, which can only evoke the question so TF what? Seemingly diddums does not like some thing, which, in itself is unremarkable. The essence of religion and the root of its harmfulness is all that morality mumbo jumbo, which consists of nothing but relative subjective-and temporary, likes and dislikes. On any view the phenomenon that I identify as modernism is a religion in that it is essentially normative and hedged about with orthodoxies, to say nothing of sacred cows - If it has all the characteristics of religion, it is religion

[@standauphin1592]

Q&A "Please no grandstanding"...everyone grandstands. Good talk though. My question would've been, if we accept that race is a social construct, are there psychological reasons or evolutionary benefits that have lead to people categorisation themselves along otherwise arbitrary lines?

[@owlnyc666]

Tribalism. There are benefits to tribalism. And disadvantages.

[@owlnyc666]

People who are lactose tolerant are superior to those who are lactose intolerant! 😉

[@gabrielbrewster202]

Race is not divided along "arbitrary " lines but visable lines

[@jamestcatcato7132]

@@owlnyc666 people who are lactosetolerant are "better", what total nonsense , read a book! .

[@owlnyc666]

@@jamestcatcato7132 The advantage of being tolerant of lactose is that you can consumre products that have lactose, For example milk, cheese and ice cream! Biologically there is only one race, Sociologically there are a vareity of ethnicities and cultures. I think it is advantageous to be as tollerant as possible towards other cultues, ethnocentriicites. The question that is beyond my intellectual paygrade to answer is What, if any are the limits towards being tolerant of "others".

[@rollinmark8952]

When I was in school they taught us about the (3) races. Mongoloid, Negroid, and Caucasoid. However, there was never any discussion about one race being better than another. But I don't like putting the entire human race in (3) categories. I like to think that we are all just one race and that we've evolved slight differences due to climate.

[@MrBooYa-yd5er]

That’s an outdated model. Races due indeed have separate roots. True diversity is beautiful. Embrace it.

[@naomismith5206]

Did you watch the entire discussion? The literal point is that race does not exist on a genetic or biological basis, it’s completely social categorization. Like it was stated in the video, if we want to categorize by skin color it’s accurate to do so by how close your ancestors were to the equator. It is irresponsible to deny that we were taught that one race is better than the other. That is a fantasy that helps systematic racism thrive. I’m sure that most textbooks did not explicitly rank races nor do teachers say that. However, if you think that children are not taught that one race is better than the others… you’re just wrong. It is ingrained in our society so much that it does not need to be said explicitly. That is why these conversations are important.

[@MrBooYa-yd5er]

@@naomismith5206 kids are taught to hate white people. Race is very real. To say otherwise is a dreamy fantasy to assist the assault on whites

[@TheHesseJames]

The race concept is a waste of time.

[@jamestcatcato7132]

There is no such thing as race,bologicallly!

[@SuperLuckyLad]

@ 11.00 : "Never seen an audience with so many non-white faces, so well done." That racist comment came from a BBC presenter.

[@SuperLuckyLad]

+David MacKenzie .......So lets reverse the comment.........." Never seen an audience with so few Black faces, so well done".

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

+David MacKenzie Cool pic.

[@metallickoRn]

+SuperLuckyLad Well you cant be racist to a white person, its the same where you cannot be sexist towards a male. Double standards my friend, double standards.

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

metallickoRn Did you get triggered, mate?

[@gedt123]

+SuperLuckyLad Thats not a racist statement tho. Stop trying to find racism towards whites where none exists.

[@DeanOkaiSenior]

Racism is a team sport and this is something we can't seem to grasp as Africans. At its core racism is ONLY about competition for finite resources and that is business, business is warfare and all tactics utilised are fair as far as our opposition is concerned. It now comes down to the question of whether we as Africans are capable of evolving (not all but those who matter in terms of creating a critical mass) into a united offensive team. I say offensive because currently we are organised enough to be a unified defensive team, however this position is still reactionary. In order to be most effective to the people we serve (African people) we must isolate our advocacy efforts to exclusively benefit African people and African interests and only then will we pool all effective representation from our community to form an offensive line capable of not only defending our community but decimating any violators of said community. Competition is about Power and Power can only be acquired by competing and that is how we create parity.

[@DeanOkaiSenior]

@@patricklassen9669 I fully concur, however from their limited psychological and spiritual perspective, it is the paradigm they paint making it a virtual reality for the rest of us. All is spirit and until we grasp that, those who control economics and media will keep us in a constant state of anxiety (applied behavioral psychology) to harness the power of our spiritual energy in the void of our clarity. Our spiritual currency is the greatest value on earth and we mainly understand it to be our attention, which we willingly give over to whatever forces seek to control and guide it. The true esoteric understanding of this agenda will be missed by the masses based on the Matrix style hypnosis (false security) established by those who are aware.

[@AdrienLegendre]

Racism is more than competition for resources. In a segregated South, even churches were segregated. Racism impacted on all social structures: education, religion, the economy etc.

[@Iloveswedes]

I don't think the guy in the glasses is right about race science. It was the 18th century.... it was also 17th century. I also want to say that "race" is one of many categories that could be used. We could also, if we want to look at hypertension, look at those whose ancestors were recently slaves vs. those who were not. We could look at those who have been subjected to a racial hierarchy and perverse treatment of one group vs. another. We could look at rural and urban and whose diets are different, or are expected to be different based on that. We could look at economic class, and different countries. Is there obesity in a country that has famine or is it in a place with an abundance of food? Is it in a place where availability of healthy produce is high and also a regular part of the diet? These things do become a proxy for race. The real question is, who benefits from this and what policies are created to make sure people have access to certain things, but also don't have arbitrary stress based on environment, economics, and society that lead to hypertension itself, not just diet.

[@vhawk1951kl]

If you please, what exactly*is*race?

[@yanemailg]

I'm not english but does what was said at about 13:00 mean anything ?

[@SuperLuckyLad]

+Yan G ................are you referrig to "self segregate" ..?

[@Sammysapphira]

+Yan G None of what they say makes sense. It's full of contradictions and talking about words.

[@candidone8544]

It's generally been conceded that some Kenyan groups benefit from living on upland plateau regions of east-central Kenya. Living at elevations of 1600m or so can be advantageous for endurance running in lower elevation competition. Also, social tradition, social pressures, to model after regional ideals is common around the world. Imagine the dismay of not being able to match such ideals...not something on which the world dwells.

[@general_electrics]

The guy drinking the water seems uncomfortable talking about genetics next to geneticists...

[@vhawk1951kl]

I guess that some of them were uncomfortable because the result of ttheir enquiries was that there was no such thing as race, and since one of the prredominant terms for sin of the religion modernism is entirely contingent on there being such a thingg as race, because the religion modernism is - like all religions, very much concerned with what men call sin,, and no doubt there are concerned not to attract one or another synonym of the religion modernism for sinful. If there is no such thing as race, it follows that various cognates or synonyms for sinful - such as racist or racism, fall with it, and where would the religion modernism be without its words for sin?- or any religion be without sin?

[@ooDirtyMickoo]

race is a social construct in so far as we picked 5 groups, and yes the races are more similar than they are different, none of that means there isnt average difference genetically between races. there is. super slippery language this lady is using to avoid the crux of racial genetic discussions.

[@hixidom2274]

Personally, since I only care about intelligence (being the defining trait of humanity), I would just as well divide the intelligence spectrum into N regions and say there are N races. That would obviously have non-PC consequences though.

[@bonsummers2657]

@@hixidom2274 Race is defined by morphological characteristics with the history of large scale breeding separation from other groups.

[@hixidom2274]

@@bonsummers2657 That's a great definition, and we can see those separate groups based on genome cluster analysis. We evolved to prefer inbreeding within our own race, so there is presumably some benefit to mating with people genetically close. I'm just saying that, for all intents and purposes, closeness by genes that determine intelligence is a good practical standard for the future of humanity. What else is there? Compassion and loyalty? Well even dogs have those, but some humans do not. I like to think that someone can be so smart that they can deduce the other desirable traits.

[@mikemanners118]

race is a biological reality

[@bonsummers2657]

@Roy Rogers Morphological(and phenotypical) characteristics are highly correlated along racial lines, separate from color of skin. Exceptions are the oddity, not the common. Thus there are such things as, practically/realistically speaking, pure unambiguous human races. You're either hypnotically denying, which is most typical, or, delusional,… - a bit of a difference on the differences of hypnotically denying vs. delusional.

[@parkertufts5251]

What happens to racial disparities if you normalize for intelligence? How heritable is intelligence? Do the races differ in testosterone levels? Does this have any ramifications? How about deferral of gratification? Ramifications?

[@AdrienLegendre]

Race is not a biological concept so it cannot be linked to a biological process like the relationship of genetics and intelligence.

[@edgeeffect]

It's nice to hear The Sisters of Mercy in the RI... I hope Andrew Eldrich is very proud.

[@anthonynichols8702]

This is how all of you make your living Stop perpetrating lies

[@rickfernandes5331]

I really like Prof. Heidi- " Who I am is what I do" - What we do is who we are. Thats very simple yet profound.

[@vhawk1951kl]

it is complete gibberish to say that who you are is what you do, because what you do does not begin to address the question who are you?

[@davidscott7091]

CHARACTER & DEEDS ; measure of the soul.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@davidscott7091 What is " the soul"?

[@davidscott7091]

@@vhawk1951kl The inner truth of one's being,that measure of self beyond facades society construct and see one as.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@davidscott7091 that is a lot of words to say nothing or just the usual religious mumbo-jumbo. Why don't you just admit that you have no idea?

[@Stgfre]

"Race is not a social construct, society is a racial construct" Douglas Whitman. "Race is a biological fact, racism a sociological attitude". Richard Goldsby. This video of a discussion show is motivated by social correctness..

[@001islandprincess]

Stgfre Greetings the worldview of race cannot and does not explain why the people from the Andaman Islands resemble South Sudanese yet they are genetically South Asian and some Pacific Islanders may resemble Africans yet these groups of people are genetically farthest from Africans and Europeans are genetically closest. Moreover, all human beings have the same alleles AGCT and the continent of Africa contains the most genetic diversity than all other continents combined.

[@Stgfre]

@@001islandprincess Actually all races have genetic diversity. Remember Europeans and Asians are part Neanderthal.

[@AdrienLegendre]

Read science not pseudoscience. A reference for you, Am J Hum Genet. 2018 Nov 1; 103(5): 636

[@rgrifferon]

So whom decides which race you’re grouped into based upon your phenotypic characteristic identity ?

[@johnhbaldwin9178]

Honestly , most people doesn't have a clue about race , where they come from or who they are . The most striking thing is that some do but we are not talking , let the public believe the lie they've been told . There are just two races not three .one is Human and one is not .

[@AdrienLegendre]

Actually race must be determined by a questionnaire so a person always determines their race.

[@glutinousmaximus]

We are still prone to tribal behaviour. This seems to manifest in family first and tribe next. Altruism appears to be natural within families (on average I have to say!) but beyond the local tribe or group, there appears to be distrust and concommitant hostility.

[@rsr789]

Makes sense, we evolved from tiny hunter / gatherer groups.

[@paddlefar9175]

It’s because of the lack of trust in people who’s group doesn’t have any positive emotional connection to your group and therefore there would be a risk of that person/stranger doing only what’s best for them and their group, at the expense or well being of your group. There is a risk that they might feign friendliness, which makes it hard for the other group/tribe to resist and distrust them, but possibly to their detriment. Kind of a Trojan Horse type of betrayal worry. It’s about initial cautiousness until there was an earned trust. There was also an inherent risk of spreading diseases between groups, so a good reason to slowly get to know a strange group that’s moved into your area, where you might be competing for resources. Our modern behaviours that kept us safe, are still with us, in our behaviours that are controlled by genes. In modern societies, with different historical issues, socioeconomic differences and unequal opportunities, this caution or distrust can go very astray and become outright racism. The early forms of tribalism of ‘Them versus Us’ might have had an original purpose however.

[@vhawk1951kl]

is not the differences between family and tribe identical to the difference between genus and species? if men(human beings) are animals does it not follow as the night the day that relative to one another, some will be predators and some prey?- that the relatively strong will tthe the relatively weak? If that be the case and cannot be different, why object to that which is and cannot be different?

[@paddlefar9175]

@@vhawk1951kl You said a lot of incorrect things. You are basically alluding to racism and predatory behaviour as being natural traits in some people and then saying that those highly negative societal traits are somehow “strong” or positive traits versus “weak,” is ignorance. Sociopathic and psychopathic behaviours are very detrimental to a society or group unless they are recognized early and dealt with effectively because persons who have those highly negative traits can do a lot of damage. Once they are recognized or found out, they are often ostracized or turned out of the group or they might be used for some military purpose or enforcement. Predatory people are rarely truly happy. It’s not a beneficial way to be wired. There is nothing “strong” about those kinds of traits, and that is why they are selected against evolutionary wise and found in low percentages in any given society, luckily.

[@vhawk1951kl]

I wonder if you understand that when you use the word "we" for all practical purposes you are saying "I" only you can answer whether or not you are what you call "prone to tribal behaviour"; are you? - "We "means points to or indicates the user of the term - that is you sunshine, and his immediate interlocutor and since you have no immediate interlocutor, you are referring to yourself

[@RawrrShadd]

Aoife's accent 👌

[@herbertrenard7972]

Why do we keep calling the original Americans "Indians" knowing full well that it designate clearly a person born in India? Continuing to call the indigenous inhabitants of the American continent "Indians" seem to glorify and perpetuate this absurd and colossal error of Columbus. I often wondered if this lack of respect was due to an arrogant racist attitude? Normally, the immediate questions should be: Who are they? How do they call themselves? and be respectful of their names.

[@vhawk1951kl]

Indian is simply a cognate or synonym of indigenous, or originating in one particular place- it can also refer to aa native or one born particular place, so the Indians was a reference to those born where those not born there had gone, the presumption being that those that one encounters any particular land or place were born or indigenous to that particular place and are thus Indians which means native to or indigenous to a particular place- the chaps that we found when we got there, and somehow or other various Europeans supposed that if they went west long enough they would wind up in tthe East or India, of which they had somehow or other heard, so when they got to America they supposed themselves to be in India, and thus the people hey found there to be Indian, but they might as easily have supposed teem to be Chinese but they still would have preferred to them as Indians because that was the word that they used for those that they encountered when they got somewhere that they had not been before.

[@paulbennett7021]

Interesting that Aoife is 100% Irish, since McLysaght means "son of a foreigner". One question - what is a 2-Pack song?

[@vhawk1951kl]

what a lot their fundamental point that no man (human being) is 100% anything- could not possibly be 100% anything, because the contemporary religion modernism supposes as one of its major tenets that all men (human beings) have or had common ancestors, which is what the religion scientism supposes them to have - the idea being that all men originated in Africa - which is self-evidently nonsense and no more than a religious belief.

[@marufhashem]

Someone was really thirsty

[@lethabobambo9433]

Shoutout to the Royal institution for bringing us such brilliant minds 🔥✨🇿🇦

[@vhawk1951kl]

What makes an associative apparatus or mind "brilliant"?

[@tommiebrooks8573]

@@vhawk1951kl right!

[@vhawk1951kl]

how can dreaming machines or associative mechanisms, or what you call "minds", be brilliant- they are only mechanisms or functions

[@vhawk1951kl]

What makes a mind" brilliant"?

[@BengtSviu]

Why did they not invite anybody that was not a copy of the others. Inviting somebody who has been nothing to lose is helpful.

[@ayo9703]

This conversation cannot be had without educating on the concept of "clines" or climatic/ geographical adaptations which are usually expressed phenotypically. (such as the presence or absence of melanin pigment depending on the degree of sunlight in a region, needed for the metabolism of Vit D by the skin) Or even sickle cell anemia which was poorly described by one of the speakers who gave his best attempt. Sickle cell anemia is a adaptation of the red blood cell to be resistant to plasmodium which is the parasite that causes malaria. You cannot get malaria if you have sickle cell anemia. The only problem is, it also causes blood flow problems which ultimately kills the person. In the same way it is more likely for non-melanated people to develop skin cancer from sunlight. Clines are not a perfect adaptation. A few more experts are needed on this panel to help resolve their blind spots. You can target groups with medicines but these are likely due to their adaptations over time, not their fundamental group genes. The African American example was relevant as Bidil is a drug for high blood pressure which AAs are more afflicted with than other groups, maybe even native born West Africans. The reason, is likely because of slavery. Intense labor out in the sunlight has you produce more Aldosterone by the renin-Angiotensin system, this increases blood pressure to cope with the physical requirement. A kind of Thalasemia is also found among people from the mediterranean.

[@SpinfisherBob-Kayak-Fishing]

You are deep into the details on this one. The fact remains there is no basis for race distinctions as proposed by so many racists. The exercise is about how can we break free from the fear and bad reasoning that creates these hard hard-held beliefs that destroy so many lives. Start with the truth, there is no race.

[@ayo9703]

@@SpinfisherBob-Kayak-Fishing I agree completely.

[@terrific804]

Ya blacks never had to work hard in Africa😳 only as slaves in the U.S.

[@christopherenuke8264]

From the time newton described the Caucasian as the pre eminent intelligent he set up a social higherarchy that allowed for the emancipation of Africa and the selling of Africans as slaves who were considered as chattel . Why did Greek civilization become the preeminent civilization over the Egyptian or Mesopotamian civilization that came before it? Because the story was told that way to support the official position of western science which which was spurred by the industrialization of commerce . Listening to this panel I feel they are avoiding the topic .

[@mofogie]

source? And you totally left out that Rome was Greek inspired, and Rome was one of the mightiest civilizations ever, so of course there'd be reverence for Greece.

[@terrific804]

Slavery was and is world wide and is not bounded by race or culture.

[@YOSUP315]

A common problem throughout this: "X which is claimed by race realists and which is perfectly concordant with human races, is a true fact. But let's shift the goal posts and change the definition, and now it doesn't look so convincing does it?

[@theespatier4456]

Xander Patten Well, your problem is a straw man argument.

[@YOSUP315]

What was one argument that didn't follow that form?

[@theespatier4456]

Xander Patten What’s an argument that follows that form?

[@YOSUP315]

The original comment implies all of them, unless you know of some exception.

[@aaroninwalmart5884]

"Race realists" I think you padded the word racist there buddy

[@dennisellis256]

On the topic of hypertension being more prevalent in blacks,this was found in the 1970's and also recently as being a matter of DIET AND NOT RACE. Before the horse SECRETARIAT WON THE TRIPLE CROWN AND SET THREE RECORDS DOING IT,IT WAS SAID THAT A HORSE WITH SOCKS COULDN'T RUN VERY WELL BUT SECRETARIAT HAD THREE WHITE SOCKS.

[@ginsuma1402]

18:40....I couldn't help but notice how marred up the those table tops are.

[@alasdairniven6578]

If 9:30 is true, 8:00 cannot be

[@ssssaop]

These two statements don't conflict, 8:00 says genetic variation is shared worldwide, 9:30 builds on this saying genetic difference is most notable in Africa.

[@donalddonald348]

Those aren’t contradictory you idiot lol.

[@cortster12]

These people are getting nationality and race mixed up. They are two separate things. One you can genetically prove, and one is cultural.

[@belfon5855]

Ism glad you see that. It is very wrong to mix concept of race with nationalism.

[@DirefulPot]

Did you not listen to the geneticist? There is an 80-90 percent genetic variability which is shared globally. This is to say that there are more genetic differences within, as opposed to between, supposed "races".

[@williamwolf5598]

Direful that may be the case but differences has always made a bigger impact in the world

[@DirefulPot]

@@williamwolf5598 I don't know what you mean. The point is that the differences are minimal, and their value in society is arbitrary.

[@williamwolf5598]

Direful what I am saying is people look for the differences and a small difference in DNA has a big impact on how you look and think

[@jimnutter6901]

At this point , there is no discussion of the effect that environment both physical and cultural on the switching on or off of certain genes and the effects thereof. Environment is fundamental.

[@candidone8544]

Prof. Mirza, in her followup of Prof. McLysaght's downplay of race as a biological reality, has a decent argument about how society needs to have categories for lumping apparent differences. And then she goes a bridge too far, as she mentions how a shoe manufacturer wanted to serve the bigger feet of Native Americans. It should've seemed an extravagant over-categorization that the vast diversity of North America's indigenous peoples could be assumed to all have size 18 feet!

[@belfon5855]

The guy with grey hair is very intelligent. He sees things that seems invisible.

[@marxist_scum]

Indeed. He (Kenan Malik) wrote a wonderful book called "The Meaning of Race". It's quite illuminating.

[@vhawk1951kl]

you take some specific objection to whatever you mean by racism? What is your objection to whatever is? - You don't like it?

[@nealblanchett2621]

Starting right out with "race doesn't exist" I see. I'm not expecting a diversity of viewpoint here.

[@donalddonald348]

That’s factually correct though.

[@nealblanchett2621]

@@donalddonald348 cool, then let's stop mentioning, tracking and complaining about race!

[@slimtimesl.l.c4614]

🤷

[@AdrienLegendre]

Multiple races is a historical fact, but a biological fiction. Biology is clear, there is only 1 race.

[@markranger-latham1467]

Being from the Caribbean can't get you more missed than that with Saxon, African Irish and Scots!

[@RetroAvangardist]

Can't believe Heidi Mirza is 60 years old.

[@BoxcarJohnnie]

I am on the floor weeping! Weeping in Joy! What a beautiful souls she is! Her smile goes all through her body.

[@JDAbelRN]

@@BoxcarJohnnie seems fake to me, much like the fraud USA vice president Harris.

[@glenparks8529]

With all the evidence presented during this discussion, I find it interesting that Heidi is still stuck on the "race" differences as opposed to calling it ethnicity or cultural differences. We are all humans and that, in my opinion, is the only "race." Our differences do make the world turn...but the basic truth is that we are all humans from varied backgrounds based on environmental, ethnic, and cultural differences. And...that makes us all wonderfully different humans of the human race.

[@daveponder2754]

Putting a "spin" on reality is not evidence, it is delusional opinion.

[@glenparksbonanzahs6376]

@@daveponder2754 Do clarify...

[@gibememoni]

Yes a pit bull and a pug are both pigs

[@AdrienLegendre]

Multiple races are a historical fact, but a biological fiction. Science is clear one human race, likely arising from eastern Africa, we are all distant cousins.

[@gibememoni]

@@AdrienLegendre false, that has been debunked years ago

[@basbah8249]

What is missing on this panel is a philosopher

[@basbah8249]

If possible

[@jamesbakewell298]

Science is a Philosophy. your comment is very amusing to me :D

[@KtotheG]

They're using logic to support their theses, so they're philosophers. Philosophy is the origin of science.

[@BronzeSista]

What is missing is a African person.

[@emmanueloluga9770]

@@BronzeSista EXACTLY, like WTH. this has become a practical joke at this point.

[@kaybee9909]

It's Obvious we all came from AFRICA as one race. Some person who figured out they could get an advantage from Dividing People into races. We been running down the Rabbit hole every since

[@vhawk1951kl]

who told you that you came from Africa and why do you believe them? - It is obvious nonsense.

[@arrangingatomsthewaygoddid8904]

It's so amazing that we all look so different but it's sad that we discriminate if we all mingled with each other and produced next generation still we all will look different from each other there will still be race may be we will name it something eles

[@YOSUP315]

The Indian guy has no clue what he's talking about on Sickle Cell Anemia. It's an entirely different mutation that causes sickle cell in India. This fact is perfectly consistent with a well informed understanding of race.

[@Bubakarrr]

What is the different mutation that causes it in India? I tried to look into it but was unable to find an explanation

[@jethrogibbs3800]

Go whack off to Jf Gareipy

[@FrancisRoyCA]

Most of the argument is "Because race is often used as a factor to determine social status, we shall simply dispense with the notion of race. If, as I assert, there is no race, asking about it makes you a bigot. Your social status is thus reduced, and mine enhanced." How childish. Kenan Malik's opening statement is in fact a form of humble-bragging, much akin to the 14 year old girl who complains that boys are incessantly showing sexual interest in her (because "I'm so sexy but I won't say it outright--it would make me seem self-important, thus reduce my social status.") Heidi Mirza makes my point: at one time in European history, status was not so much based on race, as it was on class. We are a species with hierarchical instincts. Anyone who denies this has likely never, as a teenager, hung out with teenagers. Race is a concept based on the human heuristics of it's own internal statistical machine. This is the same mechanism that permits me to glance at a progress bar under a video and guess that I'm about one-third of the way though, without calculating the seconds watched versus those remaining. It may not be perfect, but it was good enough to help our species survive. Not perfect does not mean perfectly wrong. And before someone attempts mind-read my intentions and wag their moral finger at me, I'm not claiming that distinctions in race or perceptions of it excuse poor behaviour or bad thinking, it doesn't. We have a choice: we can attempt to philosophise our differences away, that is, to impose wishful thinking on the world pretending that it has any effect other than creating a social taboo, or we can accept that people will always make such distinctions, and simply increase our knowledge base to understand that our natural point of view is contextual.

[@Bubakarrr]

I think you misunderstand her argument. My understanding is what she and some of the others mean when they argue that race does not exist is that race is not a useful form of categorization in genetics. If you want to categorize different groups of people based on differences, people in the same group will need to more be similar to each other than they are with people with others outside their category. If we accept that there is more genetic variation within racial categories than between them, then her conclusion is quite logical. They don't deny that people belonging to different races behave differently, but they say that people tend to falsely credit that to biological differences rather than environment factors- ie obesity in Blacks, Kenyan distance runners.

[@christopherenuke8264]

As an African living in America I have to check African American not African , then there is a category for non white hispanics , if you look at those two examples from a target focus approach you would see that the Hispanic group eat generally the same diet and the African and African American group eat completely differently so why is there an assumption that their deceases should be the same and not for Hispanic group?

[@lpy2261]

tupac did use sickle sell as an insult, he only pointed out that one of the group he attack suffered from a life threatening illness called sickle cell but when he comes at them, he’ll be bringing more accrue life threatening ilnesses like heat attacks and seizure.

[@paoc1791]

Unfortunately, quite a tedious talk. As noted by other users: I feel Rutherford's statement @11:00 "so many non-white faces" was inappropriate and defied the point of the whole talk. A poor choice of words. Also, I do not feel that enquiring about someone's cultural origins is inappropriate - often it leads to further conversation, which is somewhat of a dying breed. I suppose we could all move around not talking to each other; racism would be no more.

[@JaySantanaofficial]

Just go around asking what race of human are they and racism will stop

[@reinashines4ever700]

Its fine to tell your story and yes i came to understand theres racism in all races. Im a victim of racism and ill tell yall my story. I dated an african american/Jamaica born in u.s.a and we had a baby girl and he didnt want to go to the birth( didnt go) and our daughter is 5 yrs old and he still hasnt met her because he doesnt want to. The first time i went over to where he lived with his mother he came out and told me to leave and that i was lieing and shocked me and the second time him and his mother called the cops on me. Thank god i wasnt with my daughter at the time. And his mother told me once the girl looks like a spanish guys daughter because she is mixed. I told her she is wrong. The disrespect. And my daughtes father has known with dna test and all for years that he is the dad and he doesnt care about our daughter. This let me know he is racist and his mother too. Then the story he had told me months ago made sense to me...he told me way before we had our daughter that his grandmother doesnt like white girls. And after all this has happened i realize they are really racists against white people...im white color but im actually hispanic which is the crazy part. How far they took it. But now im waiting for child support to serve him

[@hixidom2274]

Crazy story. Thank you for sharing and best of luck getting what's owed to you.

[@hixidom2274]

Actually there's a graph somewhere out there from a study that found that white people are the least racist (lowest mean in-group bias) of all races. I encountered it when I went to Southeast Asia. My brother encountered it when he went to South America. Our government, teachers, and media tells us that WE are the most racist people and that we should feel bad about the color of our skin. Americans are totally brainwashed.

[@JoeBlowUK]

I'm in the UK, the most welcoming country in the world to people of all walks of life, yet we are all being branded as racist if we are white. In my experience, the majority of racism I have seen comes from black people with a chip on their shoulder. I'm married to an Indian lady by the way.

[@trugrit7210]

Some women are funny. Are you going to tell me there was no sign that this guy was a pos before he put his Johnson in you?

[@Tyee234]

@@hixidom2274 hahaha 🤣 good one. I guess whites history means nothing makes sense.

[@royandrews4980]

I l am a citizen of the USA but I' originally from India . If somebody had pointed out the younger male and asked me what what he was I would at once say "Anglo-Indian" in fact when I saw him on the the screen before I turned on the sound I thought to myself there's an Anglo-Indian I bet he would like a plate of ''Yellow Rice and ball curry with Devil chutney" In India there are a group of people whose ancestors were European men and Indian women and he has the typical look. (Stangly all of them likemeal I mentioned, in the North of India it's Yellow rice and in the South Coconut rice but it is the sme dish) of course being from Guyana I assume he would prefer something else

[@leboholmes6576]

THIS MAKES ME MORE DISTRUSTING IN THE MEDICAL FIELD

[@oneki]

1:00:36 - the guy seems to be insinuating that Kenyans are good at running because of the high altitude and the ability to utilise oxygen better. The question is why is the running skill not manifest in other societies living in high altitudes? The nepalese being the case, why are there not so many runners from nepal winning races, one would suppose if this tenious(in my opinion) link is true then it would be true for all high altitude societies. The thing is genetics does count but the tools around to utilise ( nurture, technology, practise, repetition of the same thing) also goes a long way. The IQ Test, someone who studies for the test or someone who takes the test seriously and does it multiple times will surely do better that someone who does not. these simplistic ascribing of characteristics to groups are not always that plain.

[@sporkincarnate]

That's not strictly true - the same selective pressures /can/ lead to similar adaptations in different places, but it's not obligatory.

[@giantqtipz6577]

err because running fast is not a skill youre born with... regardless what altitude you live in... you still need to train to be a good runner. you think you can just slack off, live in the mountains and be an olympic runner? come on man.. lol

[@IvarDaigon]

there are other environmental factors to consider... for example the mountains of the Andes and the Himalayas are very steep and prone to landslides which makes running at high altitude without risk of injury very impractical... you really need a high altitude plateau and a culture that emphasizes running in order to gain such an athletic advantage. Nepali Sherpas are legendary in their ability to carry heavy loads up the sides of mountains but they value their lives so they generally don't run up the mountains. Likewise in the Andes the Inca Empire used to have messengers which would run almost the entire length of the Andes (not in one go obviously) but that culture was completely destroyed by the conquistadores so now the only people go up the mountains in the Andes (by foot) are generally porters similar to the Nepali Sherpas.

[@TheHesseJames]

Better runners are better hunters in an altiplano like Ethiopia or Kenia. You don’t hunt in a mountainous region like Nepal by outrunning your prey. You can actually outrun an antilope! It’ll take time and quite a distance but in the end the Antilope will eventually give up.

[@abdiadan4837]

We also have other tribes who have being leaving in these high mountains and very tough in sports like these particular tribe or groups who are known in dominating in sports for a long periods in history, so can you explain why are these ground are also tough in athletics in greatness like these other groups who are mostly dominated in sports,

[@riverrunner4016]

Totally illogical, biased, and does not reflect that these people are actually knowledgeable on the subject. They do not want to even identify that their are obvious dominant traits seen in groups of geographically separated areas. For instance, in general, dark skinned peoples in Africa, shorter people with dark hair and thinner eyes in the east, etc....

[@001islandprincess]

River Runner Greetings. I guess you never heard of the Maasai in Africa who are the world’s tallest. You also are unaware of the people from the Andaman Islands who are genetically South Asian; however they phenotypically look SOuth Sudanese or that some Pacific Islanders may resemble some Africans; however they and the Andaman Islanders are genetically farthest from Africans and Europeans are genetically closest to Africans. By the way, the continent of Africa contains the most genetic diversity than all other continents combined.......

[@zexalblazer3314]

If you pay attention to the rhetoric, there's much less data and education and more just logical and categorical logic

[@dianedonohue9855]

Who did Adam Rutherford mention several times on racist theory? Frances Golsom?

[@jamestcatcato7132]

Francis Galton, Darwin's cousin.

[@axiom.ai.obviousbattletank7139]

This couldn't be dynamically more uninteresting. Great job.

[@franktobolsky5586]

O

[@williamgraham9142]

I naturally ask people what their heritage is. I find it a fascinating conversation starter and it gives a context to what people do. Being cagey about the topic surely displays some sort of insecurity.

[@johnsherman7289]

I suggest a tattoo like a bar code with all the personal info you're willing to share with a stranger.

[@williamgraham9142]

@@johnsherman7289 we used to refer to the art of conversation..

[@vhawk1951kl]

of course they would being nervous or insecure, because they touch upon the sacred cows of the religion modernism which invented those two words for sin that are racist and racism which are no more and no less than cognates or synonyms of sinful or sin, and if you say the wrong thing the modernists will descend upon you and the rates you with accusations of sin

[@williamgraham9142]

@@vhawk1951kl interesting comment. I think that quite a lot of modern “wokeness” probably started with good intentions and in response to some bad experiences, but then judgemental enthusiasts built up a control structure of what they define as moral and try to make that the law of the land. All in all a rather good analogy with many religions.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@williamgraham9142 I can't tell you how grateful I am to you for that, because I have been working on my particular thesis touching on the religion modernism for the last they nearly 20 years, and your contribution is of inestimable value to me, which I would say was illustration of the necessity for freedom of speech. For my purposes I define religion as any set of related*unquestioned*beliefs assumption presumptions and norms, and subject to your better view, it appears to me that it is that latter normative aspect of religion that is the identifying factor or hallmark of religion. Originally I suppose it to be the belief element of that definition that was the hallmark of religion, which most people suppose to be entirely contingent on some supposition about something that men call "God", but gradually I am refining and sharpening that definition, and I find your contribution of enormous value. Thank you very much indeed

[@johnhanks4260]

Language usage is powerful too.

[@10-AMPM-01]

Wow, people are really let down because their racist ideology is falling apart in the face of science (the detractors here in these comments). Race is a social construct that drives selective pairing (i.e. white or black people that refuse to date people with different skin color).

[@gabrielbrewster202]

Racism causes that not race

[@SAMPINJ]

No black scientists on the panel 🤔

[@glenparks8529]

Along with my other opinion, I think that we as people should discontinue the use of the term "racism" in that it gives the impression that there are different "races" of people when based on the arguments, there are simply different ethnicities and cultures. I like the fact that the categorization is emphasized as a social construct and not a biological or genetic basis.

[@loriannrichardson7644]

There are different races, nothing wrong with acknowledging obvious differences. It is racism that is negative.

[@glenparksbonanzahs6376]

@@loriannrichardson7644 There is but one race...Human...but different ethicities and cultures...the term of "different races" was conjured up to justified bigotry and to justify the enslavement of people for the purpose of financial gain. Although the enslavement of people has been ongoing for centuries...the term for the justification "different races" was developed so that one set of people can say that others are some type of sub-species and therefore must be of a different race so that the mistreatment of enslaved people can be justified. There is only one race...Human.

[@jo18533]

@@glenparksbonanzahs6376 'There is only one race...Human.' Yeah exactly, there are zero differences between Australian aboriginals and Norwegians, anybody who says otherwise is justifying bigotry for the purpose of financial gain.

[@jamestcatcato7132]

Please cite yoour proof that there are "races",?

[@jo18533]

@@jamestcatcato7132 Your eyes.

[@lisawilson6346]

Oh my goodness, how contentious. I think I’m Dutch, English, Italian. My grandmothers parents came from Palermo, Sicily. Her maiden name Morreale (regal mountain ) obviously she was born catholic, never really heard a lot about religion from her, my mom though, HUGE Christian, like counting down the days until Christ’s return, a few times to many, I am not religious. I wish I was more Italian

[@iampdv]

"Races do not exist if you look at the genes, although you can divide people into b groups, and different ethnicities show up n genetic tests". What an exquisite example of doublethink. Medical advice does not depend on race but on social status. So is it my social status what gets my white skin prone to sunburns? Race should not be basis for judging people, but claiming that people happen to differ in their superficial characteristics and nothing else is just ridiculous...

[@ionz75]

All of the panelists made good points and provided some valuable insights, save for Ms. Mirza, who appears to have an axe to grind against science itself.

[@AdrienLegendre]

Race arises from the word root. Race implies that distinct groups of humans at the earliest point (root) of human development occurred and these distinct groups correspond to current racial categories. This long-standing distinction of races was used to justify the unequal status of human races. Science is clear that this did not occur. Similar groups of humans do occur linked by geography but this reflects adaptations to biological and physical geographic factors and patterns of global human migration, not race.

[@LawrenceMeisel]

W.I. Thomas, "Things are real to the extent that men (people) define them as real, and they become real in their consequences."

[@vhawk1951kl]

Define" real" ah , you cannot; I expected that.

[@vhawk1951kl]

tricky word "real"; it is a blaub is not?- ask any man you please what he means by "real", and five gives you 50 million billion trillion even the doesn't have the faintest idea because it is a blaub. Apparently blaubs act more as veils than windows- they obscure more than they reveal.

[@trkvz]

What's the op of genuine? All these have that look in their eyes

[@garywood97]

They seem to just be saying that yes, race exists but we don't like the idea so we're gonna slightly change its definition so it doesn't. Do certain characteristics like lactose tolerance and athletic ability correlate with skin colours? If yes, race exists. It really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

[@MCPretzelM999]

It does need to be, because correlation is very far removed from causation in this respect. There is plenty of diversity of these traits within these human populations we call races, almost as if we humans are all very similar.

[@MCPretzelM999]

@Savage Cabbage The Bell Curve was not a genetics book. The book's research was done by people over at Mankind Quarterly (white supremacist magazine) and was supported by the Pioneer Fund. The book's circumstances indicate that, even if it were a genetics book, it is suspect. The two controversial chapters on race make no mention of genes. The fact that the book is constantly used by white supremacists also indicate that whether it is true or not requires deeper investigation. In response to the book, the American Psychological Association released their 'Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns,' which said that intellectual inheritance is contributed to minutely by hundreds of genes. But you seem like you do have an argument, or at least new information. So let me ask you five questions: what is race?; what races are there, and do they lie on a continuum?; what alleles are associated with intelligence?; what is the distribution of these alleles in the races you mentioned?; which scientists have been blacklisted due to this research? Please provide links where necessary. Thank you.

[@youremybiggestfan]

They are basically saying that race is a social construct and it can help to fight obesity. And all black people aint anemic.

[@Rainkit]

But, there isn't a correlation between lactose tolerance and skin color. Only people descended of certain tribes of Africans and asians can't tolerate it.

[@albertakesson3164]

@Gary Wood - The fact they're admitting that race as a social idea (a construct) _sometimes_ come to use, but only in cases where social categories actually play a role, pretty much falsify your standpoint. Because that isn't what people like to think about the concept of 'race'. The thing is, that people like to maintain racial prejudice on the far majority of other traits that isn't scientifically nor medically useful. I'd like there to be a consensus between a social and scientific theory. This _concept_ (or mental category) of racial inherit properties and _scientific_ observable traits. But there are no. Because there's too much to put within boundaries of same category. Deviating traits that are intertwined from totally separate groups that doesn't correlate.

[@lyndarlehane582]

An absolutely hilarious demonstration of people tying themselves in knots, terrified of speaking one wrong word that might lead to them being accused of racism.

[@edwardcopeland5069]

Human Origin would be a better discussion! Because we haven't even got that right yet.

[@vhawk1951kl]

What is the point in having a discussion about something called "race" if you don't define whatever it is you mean by race? Define race first then chatter about sin

[@papadapa1662]

Please take your medication 💊 before you chatter in the comments. Race is a system of classification based upon common DNA and physical characteristics shared by a large group of individuals.

[@AdrienLegendre]

@@papadapa1662 Race is defined by Census bureau. No relationship with DNA, but a group of people subject to discrimination.

[@silicasankofa4098]

Its obviously clear we need to learn much more than we do know now and bring in more clarity rather than this waffaling about social conditioning, with better mechanisims to define ourselves rather than this insulting rhetoric and opinion with science held hostage as we still have not seen the full picture yet.

[@oneki]

am i the only one confused about heidi's positions on this talk?

[@JoeBlowUK]

She comes across as very racist towards white people.

[@danlast4726]

nope youre not. something about the way she tried to explain things came off as insidious

[@princeofexcess]

what i dont get if race doesnt exist from a genetic perspective than is our skin color not encoded in our dna? Or the shape of our facial features. Cuz race after all is just some physical characteristics like skin color. If dna contains that information than why race shouldnt exist from a genetic perspective? Could someone explain it to me?

[@princeofexcess]

;.

[@jamesh625]

+princeofexcess If you pay attention to what Aoife said near the beginning, she said that the number of genetic differences between a "white" person and a "black" person were no more than between two "black" people. But the thing is, some of these differences are easily visible (skin colour) while some are not (bone density (or something; I don't have an example handy, sorry)).

[@jamesh625]

***** Yeah, I'm sure they are... Except, when you say "African" there are also "pygmies" who are African, just like there are Masai who are tall. So really, they display a lot of genetic diversity as well. Like they said, in Africa there is as much genetic difference between two "Africans" as between an "African" and a "European". The other point is that sure these (genetic) differences do exist and they may be really visible, but the total number of differences in the DNA is low. See also what Aoife said around 42:00.

[@jamesh625]

***** I agree, you can sort people arbitrarily into groups and call them "races". However, it's still relevant because we all live in cultures and societies where the paradigm of race is still used and prevalent. I don't think it's a pointless discussion, though, because people still *use* race as a social and quasi-scientific idea.

[@jamesh625]

***** Yep, I'm pretty sure they all acknowledged that fact near the beginning of the video.

[@johnsherman7289]

Do apes and zebras recognize different races of apes and zebras? Are there genetic differences in apes and zebras?

[@helenaville5939]

They are two different species so probably not the right question. A more valid question would be do zebras discriminate against other zebras who might look different from the zebras they are used to seeing? The answer is yes, because animals in collectives (groups, herds, etc) are known to ostracize and exclude albino animals or those with other distinguishing characteristics. Another example is where black swans can be ostracized. Discrimination is rampant throughout the animal kingdom.

[@lugaritzbrown2250]

East African runners succeed mostly because of genetics that give them a preponderance of certain characteristics....high altitude adaptations because of ancestry from (ethiopian highlands) even Kenyan runners have some ethiopian admixture,optimal bio-mechanics (common in most sub-saharans),short-thin builds with low BMI which in the case of Kenyan is because of nilotic (south sudanese) admixture.

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

Inuit is plural, Inuk the singular. Just saying.

[@Mandragara]

+Suvi-Tuuli Allan too complicated

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

***** Perhaps for potatoes.

[@UncoveredTruths]

+Suvi-Tuuli Allan passive agressivism, charming.

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

The Forgotten Lies Charming like a strawberry.

[@Mandragara]

+Suvi-Tuuli Allan I'm not going to waste brain cells learning the grammatical constructs of a dying language that has a couple of thousand speakers.

[@midcent73b]

58:00 If it were that simple, we would have solved the problem of achievement differences among "races".

[@patricioolivera4002]

it is that simple. but solving it would mean solving poverty and hierarchies, so the end of capitalism, which isn't as easy.

[@owlnyc666]

If it were that simple we would distinguish between race and ethnicity

[@jo18533]

@@patricioolivera4002 How do you solve the problem of average IQ?

[@patricioolivera4002]

@@jo18533 equal access to food shelter and education, in the USA the biggest determiner of iq is area code. (Which is why Iq tests are outdated and only used to reinforce racist hierarchies)

[@eamontdmas]

Your confusing simple with easy

[@twstdelf]

This really would have been much better if it were just a topical discussion between Adam Rutherford and Aoife McLysaght.

[@hueheuehue4805]

I thought this was going to be a great debate, but every one of these 'experts' sound like they have a chip on their shoulder about who they are. The first Indian guy who moaned that he was asked where he's from..... well... he's originally from India so why was it an issue for him to answer the question? That is not something an intelligent and articulate person says. The others too... "I tried 23 and me and disappointingly I was 100% Irish." Why disappointingly? These people are ridiculous.

[@straighttalking2090]

The Irish woman starts off by saying 85% of variation (in humans) is found everywhere - whoope do, as if that isn't much..I've read we share 45% of our genes with fruit fly.

[@theespatier4456]

Straight talking Variance is a technical term. You only look at the differences inside and between groups, not at the constant parts.

[@straighttalking2090]

Hi The Espatier, I just responded to your reply on my comment on "the myth of race debunked" by Vox (KZbin). I agree with what you say here. My point, I think (it's a while since I watched the video), is does the fact have much relevance when we are are talking about human 'races'. If you want to respond I'd prefer to talk on the aforementioned Vox vid.

[@theespatier4456]

Dr. Fausto's Ghost Eliezer Yudowsky... who has no education or experience in biology or statistics? Also, I don’t know where you get the idea that two couples hold “7/8” of human genetic variation, that’s wrong.

[@theespatier4456]

Dr. Fausto's Ghost My point about Yudowsky and yourself is that’s it’s so extremely clear to anyone with education or experience in biostatistics that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. It’s like watching secondary school children talk about quantum mechanics. Especially this little game of inventing your own jargon and fallacies in the Less Wrong community is so silly. And the bursting in here and calling simple analysis of variance fallacious? It’s just silly. Write a paper and attempt to publish it if you think you can do statistics better than the professionals. There are people who get paid or at least volunteer to review stuff like this if you send it to journals, but then you would have to elaborate and show that what you’re saying is statistically true and not just empty rhetoric. Anyone can come with a baseless accusation. By searching for this fallacy your idol made up I can’t find any substantial text about specifically why it’s a “fallacy” or how it relates to genetics. Only a single blog post criticising (hypothetical, strawman) genetic clusters for sometimes trying to split data along one axis or another and not finding splits that sit across many axes. But I’m pretty sure a principal component analysis would IMMEDIATELY identify the split shown in the image in that blog post. The whole blog post seems artificial to me. And far removed from anything having to do with the 85% statistic. Oh... and you’re COMPLETELY wrong about variance. That’s just absolutely ridiculous. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You don’t even understand what variation we’re talking about. We’re talking about the fact that out of all genetic variants (polymorphisms) that exist in humanity, 85%+ are found in any major (sub-continental) population. You’re not going to find that in two people, or four.

[@theangrycheeto]

@Dr. Fausto's Ghost What is your background in science?

[@eff700]

That geneticists should know better: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin's_Fallacy

[@edwardzita3479]

@Justinikus , it's simple... Racism duh.

[@edwardzita3479]

@Justinikus , he is indeed. But there's a reason why everyone who is adamant in having the old structure of race, that is because they have something to lose if everyone is truly equal and has a common ancestor. Or they all read the Bell Curve. Or they all white supremacist and the video exposes their fragility.

[@vhawk1951kl]

You can't have people saying that there is no such thing as race because if you do, the followers of the religion modernism can't accuse anyone of being a racist which is is simply another cognate or synonym of sinful because the religion modernism is largely concerned with sin.

[@AdrienLegendre]

Race is a historical concept; identify a large group of people subject to discrimination. Race is determined by a questionnaire.

[@rexsprouse4893]

I keep getting the sense that the guest on the far left of the stage wants to deny that genetics plays any role in the genotype of the human body.