What Sensors Would be Used in REAL Space Combat?

[@Spacedock]

Get 'Designing a Space Frigate', the latest Official Spacedock Reference Book, here: www.patreon.com/posts/100184147/

[@axialivanov6101]

You should try the game space engineers and join the sigma draconis expanse server it's a very good game by itself but the draconis server has created a server network that accurately replicates the expanse universe all the way from being a rock hopper to a part of a massive mcrn fleet or just solo it all on ships and stations that you build with resources collected and built into base components to the final block

[@axialivanov6101]

Best 20$ I spent and have put into it a total of 8 thousand hours

[@ventusprime]

@@axialivanov6101 no sield we die like man :D Makrek is proud

[@Lesserthannone]

As a kid, during the Encounter at Farpoint (I think) the Deflector dish does some phasery sound effects, I always thought the Deflector dish was a do everything emmiter/recevier and that's why it was so prominent and BIG. only to be let down by cannon and lore as I researched as a teen. Also if you think about it to much, as I have. The Busard Collectors are all wrong, they are behind an object, and if we assume they pull equally, then what is collected will go meaninglessly down the middle where there is no collector. Thanks for the modern Radar explanation!

[@Makrangoncias]

I know I'm old fashioned but is the book available in paper format? I'd totally buy that but I'm not all that interested in an e-book.

[@SIrL0bster]

Gravity sensors are a thing that might be worth mentioning- they're not high fidelity, but they could let your sensors recognize "Hey, that thing posing as a civilian lightweight sports yacht actually has as much mass as our opponent's stealth cruisers."

[@FGMagala]

Not just that, but gravity sensors would be far more difficult to deceive, even if less precise. Stealth will be doubly difficult even if the technology becomes viable in space.

[@Imaboss8ball]

Gravity sensors in combination with fancy math could also create routes. You know space highways.

[@Cpt_Graftin]

My gravity sensor is a rock in a transparent sphere. If the rock moves there is gravity.

[@forestwells5820]

Yes and no. It would need to be very exact about that, and there are ways to hide that mass to match what you are pretending to be. Too many to make it viable. It might work as a semi-passive sensor. A way to detect that SOMETHING is there. But it could be a rock, a comet, lost cargo, or a ship. That said, it's still a clever angle that could be useful in some situations. Like the episode of Stargate SG-1, where Carter realized the asteroid was wrong because the gravity was too strong.

[@tedarcher9120]

@@Cpt_Graftin Einstein literally said it won't work

[@mitwhitgaming7722]

Another thing that can add so much to a setting that is often overlooked. Any sort of horror story in space could really benefit from fleshing out how its sensors work. Do you risk sending a crew member to fix it while who knows what is still out there!?

[@Scrogan]

Submarine simulator but in space, make it happen.

[@Phrancis5]

The old mark 1 eyeball wouldn't be as useful in real space combat at such great distances and light levels, so no need for a ship covered in vulnerable windows. Space combat will probably be more like submarine warfare with lots of sensor fusion and electronic warfare.

[@RorikH]

The F-35 uses cameras on the exterior to let the pilot basically see through the plane with their HUD, and applying that effect to an entire cockpit/bridge would be truly epic.

[@Phrancis5]

@@RorikH Exactly - that's a perfect example of 360 degree passive electro-optical coverage and when you add AI image/pattern recognition, it becomes way more powerful.

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@Phrancis5 nah, it's more likely we'll get a mix of Submarine Warfare and Surface Warfare.

[@artor9175]

@@merafirewing6591 Why do you imagine that? What surface is relevant?

[@merafirewing6591]

@@artor9175 You're going to need alot of redundancy in terms of sensors.

[@xXShadDragXx]

I wish there was more Sci-Fi that would use sensors like Code Geass did where the sensor is protected behind armor but opens up in order to get clean snapshots.

[@Joshua_N-A]

The Gjallarhorn's Graze mobile suits from Gundam IBO also has a similar feature.

[@leandersearle5094]

Or put the sensors behind armor that was transparent to the sensor itself.

[@TheArklyte]

You're a fan of tank combat, I presume? Because "button down" is tanker way, ships and aircraft have sensors protected as much as the rest of the craft... ie not much either😅

[@getsideways7257]

Tanks have armored "curtains" for the optics in case of a nearby arty strike.

[@mikemarkwilka4135]

Also important are orientational and positional sensors for your own ship. One method of using this is pulsars... yes, pulsed neutron stars. Their rotation is so regular that they're more accurate than an atomic clock. These sensors are already used for spacecraft. Almost like the galaxy contains naturally occurring lighthouses!

[@krumuvecis]

And then you need to jam those sensors of the enemy ship, so they can't orient themselves

[@UGNAvalon]

They covered that in the Astronavigation video. :D

[@bonesawmcl]

Or if you're staying in one star system you'd be just fine with advanced star trackers.

[@Incognito413]

I just wanna say, including clips from Space: Above and Beyond always makes me smile. Ya'll are about the only ones I ever see showing the Wild Cards some love.

[@drunkengamer1977]

It was a good show I thought it had potential but nope cancelled. I liked we built synthetics then had a war so we created invetros to fight them like lesson not learnt here

[@knghtbrd]

@@drunkengamer1977 Not the only lesson not learned either. And the revelation at the end of the series … that was something. Wish that show had stayed around a little longer.

[@templarw20]

Grab the scotch. Pretend it's Chiggy Von Richthofen's blood. And celebrate .

[@KJAkk]

I was surprised by the lack of Space: Above and Beyond clips in the carrier episode a few weeks back.

[@televized1781]

Nebulous: Fleet command in the spot light!

[@dethmettle9236]

Finally, the recognition it deserves. The way it captures space combat is just, beautiful-

[@Oðrun]

I was happy to see game footage used on this channel. So fun.

[@getsideways7257]

@@dethmettle9236 You mean, it's just stupid? It has too small a scale even for naval combat - let alone orbital warfare. If you want something that really captures space combat, look no further than Children of a Dead Earth - sadly, that's the *only* sim out there that gets anywhere close to portraying actual space warfare.

[@anonymousnyancat6]

@@getsideways7257 neb was never meant to me a sim, and no one here has even mentioned it as such lol theres a reason COADE's community is so much smaller than neb's despite neb being much newer

[@getsideways7257]

@@anonymousnyancat6 It's a very weird thing, actually, since it has quite a lot of complex math underneath... Why do that and deliberately create an arcade title?

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

radar that can detect water vapor is also useful in scanning of enemy ships mid combat... as you can see if they are venting atmosphere and where

[@hoojiwana]

Oooh thats a good point! Oxygen works too since many rockets use liquid oxygen for oxidiser. - hoojiwana from Spacedock

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

@@hoojiwana Add to that passive sensors.. since in most cases things like radio communications, radar, and even technically LPI radar... are all in expanding waves, even if their starting point is only a small fraction of a "circle" its still a em wave expanding in a circle. so tell me, if you have 3 "receiver antenna" In a triangle... and each is hit by an expanding sphere(pulse)... at different times... wouldn't it be possible to "map" the sphere... and from that with pretty simple math locate the center... or point of origin of each sensor pulse? Even the EM field from an improperly shielded cable, a drive starting up, or anything like that would create an em pulse... the more pulses you have in a localized area... the more likely are are to have a ship there. (something a lot of shows forget, a fusion reactor uses a LOT of electromagnetic fields and as such... would be detectable beyond just the heat pulse of the drive)

[@toddkes5890]

Radar combined with infrared can tell if you are shooting at a decoy or the real ship. Infrared tells you how bright the exhaust is for the different targets, and radar tells you if they are accelerating and how hard. For example if your radar sees twenty targets accelerating at 4 Gs where one of them is a 1 TW heat signature and the others are 500 kW signatures, guess which is the real target and which are the decoys. Now if you can chuck the decoy out before the calculation is made by the missile, that can help.

[@viktoriaalden3452]

​@@jenniferstewarts4851phased arrays also works for passive radar! So you can use an array to trilaterate the source (like gps but reversing the transmitter and receiver)

[@Nalothisal]

This only works if the ship has its environmental systems active during combat. With how I designed my ships, gravity plates and atmosphere is shut off and vented in order to make damage control simpler, cause the last thing you want to have in your ship during combat is an active fire. And before you ask, all crew and guests are required to wear mechanical compression suits with a lightweight inflatable helmet that gives them a breathable atmosphere to work with and an O2 tank that lasts a good hour or so, unless you are plugged into a nearby station.

[@thaelindarkfyre4112]

Passive sensors would be the major part of any sensor suite. Active would be for short range use only (short range being within a few seconds for the reflection), after all if it takes light/lasers/radar 1 hour to bounce off the target it'll be 2 hours before you know it's there, where your passives will know its there 1 hour earlier.

[@kertas1991111]

more importantly, your enemy can detect the active sensor from much further away. so active scanning might result in beeing detected a long time before you get the return signal, assuming the reflection is even sufficient to detect at a given range while the enemy has it easy with the massive beacon you just lit up

[@ParanoidMarvinMk2]

The Universe Which Must Not Be Named On This Channel (Honorverse) does this. Anything long range is fully passive. Active sensors are used for things such as missile defence, where of course the targets are much closer and the need for precise targeting is high. Even used as a plot point in one book, where the outnumbered heroes led by the eponymous tacticial genius of the series use the reliance on passive sensors for long range (specifically gravity based ones) to essentially go stealth. They combine this with making their thruster burns (again, unusual for the setting, most propulsion is gravity based) lined up with the sun to hide the emmissions there. The bad guys (Space Nazis, as in their acronym is the SS) get an "Oh, shit!" moment when our heroes just come into extreme lidar/radar range, and fire lasers and grasers at that range, defeating them in a single moment.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@ParanoidMarvinMk2 Ah, the battle of Cerberus!

[@ADSB1994]

@@ParanoidMarvinMk2 Thank you for giving me another sci-fi book series to lose hours listening to!

[@ParanoidMarvinMk2]

@@ADSB1994 More like days or weeks mate... It's a LONG runner.

[@rorag111]

One type of sensor that could also work is gravity sensors. Something along the lines of LIGO is completely impractical for use in space now, but numerous upgrades could make it workable. It would be almost impossible to block gravity waves as well, unless there is antigravity, but having technomagic like that changes the playing field substantially anyways.

[@DarthBiomech]

With the way these things work, they'd be barred from existing on any kind of moving object, and their resolution would be limited to planetary-scale masses at best (We currently have been able to detect only supermassive black holes merging, so I'm giving _a lot_ of wiggle room for further scifi enhancements here). Anything smaller would be just too darn not massive enough to generate any gravity waves.

[@jacara1981]

@@DarthBiomech Actually tiny is extremely easy and done all the time with Gravimetric sensors (yes they are real), the problem right now is sensing at a distance.

[@truesus1718]

I'm not sure gravitational wave observatories are impractical for space. In fact I'd think they'd work better as you don't have to manufacture a vacuum and you have plenty of space to make them huge (bigger = more sensitive). In fact this is being worked on by ESA under the LISA program. But I'm not sure they'd be effective for tracking something as small as a ship or even a fleet. However, in a sci-fi context, you could have FTL systems that generates gravitational waves large enough to be detected. So maybe not great for targeting, but more like an early warning system that something has "jumped" into the system.

[@kirknay]

​@@jacara1981Those only work because we have completely mapped our planet's grav field, and they're only useful as a secondary confirmation for navigation at best. A simple mag 1 or 2 earthquake on the seabed will throw off our data, making it unreliable until the sub surfaces again to get updated data.

[@WolfeSaber]

Using gravity as a sensor is something few Sci-fi use. In a Sci-fi I'm working on, gravity sensors are a thing, as a means to detect an FTL vessel of the thermal isn't working.

[@Peoples_Republic_of_Cotati]

A couple other things... 1.Laser Interferometry Gravity Observation pods can be used to detect unusual gravity signatures in an area, or as part of a gravity communication system. 2. Neutrino detector arrays deep inside ice moons or otherwise shielded, are to be used to find fusion, fusion, or other similarly energetic bogies.

[@reganator5000]

@@nolanturner5607it also suffers the problem that it would need to be very precise to not be lost in all that noise, and they scale in size as a result - means, if feasible, you're going to have a limited number of very big sensors (which is likely useful for cool fiction, as if there's not 400 of the things, a covert mission might just take out the one that matters).

[@ckl9390]

The neutrino detector, as we comprehend how to make and use one now with the requirement to be buried deeply in a planetoid's surface, would be useful for a system wide detection network. Something like a DEW line detecting inbound ships.

[@kalebk9595]

I was thinking about Nebulous Fleet Command when I saw this earlier, nice thumbnail choice.

[@trekkie1701c]

In my novel's setting I actually have the shields (I know, I know!) double as sensors, and they're actually the ship's primary sensors via induction inference. Shields basically because my idea is that if you're doing FTL speeds, and near FTL speeds, you're going to worry about background radiation hitting your ship really hard; photons would smack into you with the force of nukes, for example. This comes with the idea of "Well, if the shields can block light, how do you see through them?" The answer is: You don't! However, if something hits them, it should induce a change in the field. This is how radios work - an EM field induces a charge in some metals, and you can use those to intentionally pick up on these EM fluctuations to see things, communicate, etc. So basically you have induction inference sensors. Depending on how strong the field is changed and how it's changed you could figure out with some clever math what might be hitting the shields, where it is, and how strong it is. You can, conversely, if you can fire something out of the shields, use that to act as RADAR and use the shields as the receiver. I'm not really sure what to call the Real Life equivalent, but I know various bits of induction inference have been used in history, most notably the Soviets apparently employing a spy device where they gave a gift to the US ambassador that they could then later point a RADAR beam at (probably just because it was a strong, coherent EM field) and you could see how the beam was modulated by some metal in this 'gift' and use that to determine what sort of soundwaves were passing through it while the RADAR was active... effectively allowing you to eavesdrop remotely. Which makes this a neat little wrap around both to hard sci-fi and "What if the shields go down" - the ship is made of metal, presumably. Metals, again, have currents induced in them via EM field fluctuations. If you can measure these currents in the hull, you can also utilize these sensors without said shields. So you can totally sit there without any sort of RADAR receiver or anything like that and just kind of... listen. With just the hull. All because EM fields induce charges in things.

[@FoxURA]

Why apologize for having shields? Boeing is reportedly making good progress to making plasma force fields a reality. They’ve done some real world testing if I remember right.

[@trekkie1701c]

@@FoxURAThere was a video at one point where one of the people running the channel (Daniel?) said he doesn't like shields so kind of a joke in reference to that.

[@barrylefsky8241]

Boeing has doors flying off so would you trust them with a force field?@@FoxURA

[@Bookslayer10]

@@barrylefsky8241 I'm sure the people installing doors won't be the same ones installing force fields.

[@standbi]

Oh very cool. I'd reccomend the Culture series and its extensive use of fields for a similar purpose

[@Zayfod]

One of my favourite little details of sensor use come from the anime Outlaw Star, where the ships deploy camera drones at the start of a battle to get an overview of the combat. A surprisingly down to earth detail for a series with knife wielding star fighters and multiple types of literal magic.

[@AdmiralBlackstar]

^this. I can count the number of series I've seen combat-used sensor drones on one hand. Pretty much just Outlaw Star, Andromeda, and the Honor Harrington series.

[@chiaeagle6720]

Ewar and sensors seem criminal underrated in a lot of fiction. Also always love seeing The Lunar War footage in these videos. Good to see it still active. I miss the discord channel

[@achillesa5894]

One interesting thing you touched on at the end, because sensor systems take so much power, it's quite likely that bigger ships will have significantly better sensor capabilities. Another nail in the coffin of space fighters.

[@CptJistuce]

When I was banging up a sci-fi setting, the smaller vessels remained relevant because hyperspace travel speed was a direct function of mass. A given mass always moves at a given speed, and the smaller the vessel, the faster it travels in hyperspace. My purpose wasn't to preserve fighter combat, but it would work for that. An X-Wing would make a trip in hours where a Star Destroyer would take weeks to travel the same distance.

[@Krahazik]

@@nolanturner5607not to mention that whole spotter thing once again, smaller more agile craft highlights the target with a relatively simple sensor and the larger ship then uses that to focused its more enhanced sensors and computing power and process targeting solutions

[@achillesa5894]

@@nolanturner5607 if you have data links like that though, why not use drones?

[@toddkes5890]

One fun part is that smaller craft have a higher surface to volume ratio than larger vessels. So they can emit more heat per ton than a larger vessel. This will give them more capability to fire weapons for their mass. For example, assume two ships, as much identical as possible, where the larger ship sis 2x as wide, tall, and long. The larger craft will have 8x the volume, but only 4x the surface area. Assuming equal mass (so 8 smaller vessels vs 1 larger vessel) the smaller craft formation will: - have higher heat dissipation (twice as high compared to the larger craft) - have thinner armor/shields per ton (higher surface area means the same mass fraction to armor/shields will have half the protection) - have stronger structural members (structural strength is based on cross-section, structural strain is based on mass, so the smaller craft will be able to handle twice the acceleration) - have a longer baseline for emissions detection (the smaller craft can be a tenth of a light-second apart much easier than a larger craft) - have a potentially higher EM signature as the smaller craft have to use active emissions to coordinate their longer baseline sensors, plus tactical datalinks - are able to protect more locations from lighter threats (i.e. eight cruisers can protect better than one battleship, though that one location will be very well protected) So which is better? Depends on the mission needs.

[@toddkes5890]

@@CptJistuceOne tweak to that, make hyperspace speed depend on cross-sectional area. So a big fat cargo vessel will be efficient in terms of structural strength while loading and unloading cargo but have a low hyperspace speed. A narrow military ship of the same mass will have a higher FTL speed. A needle-shaped courier of the same mass will be horrible in combat (easy to break) but it can get a war warning out faster than any other similar-massed vessel. (got the idea from the GURPS Lensman book)

[@fabiosilveira8571]

So good to see The Lunar War being featured here!!

[@superlegomaster55]

The Lunar War 😍😍😍

[@andrewreynolds912]

Be a long while before they come out with a chapter

[@Eanso-706]

SHACKLETON 51ST STATE

[@kingcam1654]

@@Eanso-706youre not thinking big enough... :)

[@CollinBuckman]

Using nukes to find a stealth craft sounds metal as hell

[@thatstarwarsnerd6641]

He -mentioned- showed a clip from Space: Above and Beyond!!!!! It’s very underrated, but I would recommend to anyone interested

[@glytchd]

One of the best series never made. Along with firefly

[@villeuusivuori7150]

What about a neutrino detector to "listen" for the fusion reactor of other space craft? Neutrinos are notoriously slippery so catching enough to separate them from the background is not easy and current models of neutrino detectors are hard to fit on a ship, but space stations or satellites are not similarly limited by thrust to weight ratios.

[@jakeaurod]

Neutrinos also come in different flavors, so that could aid detection.

[@ralalbatross]

Sure. If you want to carry around a half million ton tank of water

[@achillesa5894]

Someone definitely likes Nebulous! We love to see it.

[@ag7898]

God bless you for including this Spaceballs clip any time you bring up radar.

[@themax9913]

Gotta love seeing some The Lunar War footages.

[@rocketgamer2468]

I wish more Sci-Fi would have this type of sensors. Somebody should hire this man to make a movie.

[@nephalemmadeline]

Well I have good news for you, check out the sci-fi audio drama the sojourn, made my Dan and co

[@Rasc0117]

Daniel and Alasdair from Spacedock(now focused on Sojourn) helped write the lore of some of the ships from the Expanse TV show.

[@t.n.h.ptheneohumanpatterna8334]

The point of sci-fi is it’s supspeod to be your imagination not realism

[@tymek200101]

@@t.n.h.ptheneohumanpatterna8334 creativity thrives under restrictons

[@achillesa5894]

@@t.n.h.ptheneohumanpatterna8334 what if my imagination wants realism?

[@dustybunny6716]

Love the Space balls references

[@xinguan2681]

The Radar’s jammed.

[@baystated]

Have you ever done a video focusing on damage itself? Damage types, damage sensors, damage repair, damage reporting interfaces? Both yourself and an adversary? Damage in non-combat situations involving natural phenomena or malfunction or poor maintenance?

[@projectarduino2295]

Gotta have: location, velocity, acceleration, and impulse trackers for all objects in range, spectra analysis of everything possible, and emitters/receivers for all tracking and observing sensors. Know where they are, what they are made of, how fast they move, what they spend to move, what their cross section is, what they look like. The list is probably much longer. In intel, the more you know (and can parse through) the better.

[@commanderknight9314]

A thing to also consider is the difference between detecting an object and being able to fire at it. Just because you can see something on radar doesn't mean you can fire a missile at it.

[@RepChris]

In space there arent major limitations on how far a missile can go. The only time there would be an issue is in unfavorable orbital setups, and even then its almost allways less an issue of "can the missile get there" and more of "does the missile have enough dV left over to avoid point defense and overcome evasive action" and ignoring the PD issue overcoming the latter one is just a function of how much dV the target has, how much dV your missiles have left over and how many missiles you can fire

[@ryderlynch2281]

What about autonomous or remotely controlled reconnaissance drones meant to augment a controlling vessel's sensor range? Compact drones that either system pickets or lone starships deploy in multiple shells or patterns around themselves to add strategic depth to their early detection capabilities. The Honorverse has an example of these in Manticore's Ghost Rider drones.

[@jacara1981]

The US military already has things like these. They can launch a cruise missile from the middle of the ocean and control gets passed off to other ships, satellites, and even drones till it reaches its target.

[@airistal]

Honorverse also has a whole new sensor type, gravity sensors. These detect the interaction between gravity and the dimensional barrier of their multilayered hyperspace equivalent. Particularly effective due to use of high powered artificial gravity fields in their propulsion tech.

[@randlebrowne2048]

@@airistalFor that matter, they even use artificially created gravitic "lenses" as the focusing mechanism for their energy wepons!

[@RepChris]

@@randlebrowne2048 I dont see the need to put lenses into quotations, as scientific literature calls it a gravitational lens, and the effect gravitational lensing

[@elongated_musket6353]

Modern and future combat will always be about detecting first, shooting first, and killing first.

[@Average_Arthur]

2:15 Starsector mentioned. Day brightened

[@XMysticHerox]

Should be mentioned that LIDAR is pretty limited in range like lasers in general are. Especially if we are talking about something that can search a large area.

[@jacara1981]

More than range the issue in space is Time Lag. A ship that is 3 Light seconds away as a ton of maneuvering options.

[@Llortnerof]

@@jacara1981 And being hit by LIDAR will tell it that you're looking at it.

[@CmdrGamagosk]

Love the use of NEBULOUS: Fleet Command to show ship to ship combat. Great video as usual

[@latch9781]

Nice to see *Falling Frontier* clips in this sorta thing

[@MissionReloadedGaming]

You got me with the Nebulous Thumbnail... I am happy that you are using it for references!

[@sethhuff8657]

love the clip with the mass driver lineship and the early warning monitor from neb due to the fact that both of those ships are using reactors designed for civilian use, its actually more efficent to rip out the radar and divert the power and internal space it would use to the railgun systems, while having a secondary ship carry the power hungry early warning and long range search-and-track radar systems

[@StellariumSound]

Glad to see all the Nebulous Space Command clips to make up for the EWar video.

[@SkashTheKitsune]

you may be very proud of your book and it's promotional/bonus content, but I am very proud to be a subscriber of your channel to hear great things about your passion at Spacedock!

[@rhodridavies9426]

Something that you may not have realised about passive verses active sensors in space, and more specifically across large distances of multiple light minutes/hours. Passive sensors gather data twice as fast as active sensors. You mentioned that Lidar and Radar both need to send signals out and wait for the reflection to come back before it's seen. But a passive visual sensor will just pick up the light of the object as soon as the light reaches the sensor, no need for a laser to go out and bounce back. In space, this could save literally hours or days of reaction time. It's also very difficult to hide in space anyway, so light reflecting off objects doesn't have much to get in the way. It must also be said that it would be pointless trying to look with our own eyes, but electronic telescopes are getting better all the time, s who knows how good they'll be by the time space travel becomes normal. As an example of tis working in literature, look up the lost fleet series by Jack Campbell.

[@quietlistener7054]

Did I miss it, or did you guys completely forget visual light sensors? Visual light spectrum scanning is massive and most likely will be exponentially increased as we move more into space, as EM can be jammed so easily over large distances.

[@Krahazik]

@@nolanturner5607that's where mixed detection and sensing systems come into play

[@SkyHawk2137]

@@nolanturner5607 Considering this entire video is about using Electromagnetic Radiation Sensors, if you've got any form of FTL, your sensors are either always going to suffer a delay on the defense unless the enemy has to leave FTL far enough away from your defences to give you response time, or you are using a form of sensor that is not covered by this video such as an FTL sensor. With the example you chose of Star Trek absolutely requiring an FTL Sensor of some sort, probably technobabble considering the setting.

[@quietlistener7054]

I was thinking less FTL, but within system tracking. Most "systems" have massive active light projectors called stars, which can illuminate many things not specifically stealth coated to absorb visual spectrums/radiation. Think astroid/comet tracking like we do today, but millions of times more sensitive/accurate. Vessels/weapons that have active propulsion would also potentially create light plumes.

[@epcfal]

​​@@SkyHawk2137 If a setting has FTL then might as well not bother with explaining sensors at all and use whatever sounds cooler.

[@RepChris]

light is EM. Its just a matter of which frequency of EM. Although the video did seem to imply that EM scanners would exclude visual light, it doesnt. Stars put out almost the entire spectrum, and most of it is at least somewhat reflective, although even just a passive IR sensor would make most if not all hiding impossible, having more than one frequency for target acquisition certainly would make jamming harder, since shorter wavelengths require smaller dishes,, which makes targeting the giant jar of jam more difficult

[@Alyeska23]

Very cool video. Very informative. Not just scifi, but real world.

[@dannileigh6426]

@5:25 In pre to early engagements passive sensing of changes in radiator output could also give advanced warning of combat systems being brought online or power surges to charge capacitors for railguns as an example too.

[@thanksfernuthin]

Wow, you use the old Battlezone PC game music to lead in? I APPROVE! That was an awesome game (1 & 2)!

[@justinbrown691]

You can see asteroids in IR. Any object will be warmer than the background of space. In a solar system they are both heated, reflect a stars emissions and are warmer than the background.

[@arcdecibel9986]

Oh, thank God, somebody with an understanding of the subject. Yes, they are visible, and if they are on a weird orbital path they look very suspicious. Much as I loved "The Expanse" for its efforts, the stealth asteroids were dumb. Oh, they painted them in something that doesn't absorb and radiate heat? How does that work? It's just nice to see someone who gets it. Cheers to you!

[@peasant8246]

@@arcdecibel9986 I remember reading about something called "meta-materials" that can bend the incoming EM radiation around the object, effectively making it invisible. Although IRL they were only effective against specific wavelengths and only when radiation is coming from a specific direction, perhaps at some point in the future it will be possible to design these to work from any angle.

[@erikpeters8507]

I love the breadth of sources you pull reference footage from. :-)

[@egoalter1276]

PESA can also be used as fire control, and track multiple targets simultaneously, as well as perform search while track. It just has to do this with staggeting its modes in time (update tracks individually for a split second each, continue search fan, repeat). The old Zaslon on the Foxhound can for example simultanously trck 4 targets, and do search while track, and its definitel a passive array.

[@nah_bro_really]

Realistically... pretty much all of this tech IRL, past our current tech level, would be largely passive. Combat spacecraft can't be "stealthed" very well; the limitations on how IR emissions can be reduced are quite severe and, short of some sort of "warp drive" that doesn't push mass backwards at a high velocity, it's practically impossible to hide a spacecraft that's maneuvering, because that mass going backwards will be very hot. So your typical combat spacecraft would tend to have sensor booms spread out widely around the hull, collecting data, which would then be very rapidly turned into actionable information by AIs. I think that things like RADAR / LIDAR would very quickly be seen as a problem, rather than a solution; passive sensors have a longer effective range and can, with the sensors spread out, give more than sufficient precision. RADAR would just show your enemies where you are and what you're doing... long before you'd see them. I think it's one of those technologies that's effectively a dead end if space combat on a large scale ever becomes a real thing. Passive sensors' only real problem is that the area of search volume is limited by the resolution of the sensors, how well they handle things like vibration from a ship under weigh, etc., but these are problems that engineers could handle and really the only limitation is computational; doing real-time analysis of a large volume of space will require a lot of resources. But in space, short of magical warp drives that don't use reaction mass, there's almost nothing to be done about spotting any ship that's producing delta-V, at anything like realistic engagement distances (again, short of magical warp drives, somewhere around a few light-seconds, tops).

[@EX512-NebEnjoyer]

I love to see nebulous appear more often in these videos. You guys do a great job representing/explaining it and all it’s fantastic grounded features.

[@danielfang749]

You can see that this episode was a favorite for the team to produce

[@noppornwongrassamee8941]

Passive sensors are likely to be the long ranged sensor of choice. At anything more than a few light seconds, any returns you get from your your pings might well be so weak and take so long to get back that you can't tell they're your return pings. Or which ping they were. Active sensors are more likely to be used for targeting and tracking of objects close in (well, "close" in space terms anyway). That being said, I like to imagine that future sensor analysis systems will crossreference input from many sensor types across the spectrum (optical, IR, radio) to make it just that much more difficult to fool an observer with false images and decoys.

[@MrWooaa]

2:14 love that starsector gets some mentioning here.

[@qtar1984]

A related topic would be how to design an intuitive interface for a space craft that would be both realistic and functional in representing the the information coming from the senesor arrays of your chosen vessel.

[@Molikai]

Ahem. Also potentially Gravitic sensors. (Detecting mass variance) No, I'm not talking about gravitationa lwaves - Im' talking about the RL use of looking at the gravitational gradient to detect objects. Currently, we need wide arrays of detectors. If we made the sensors more sensitive, a smaller array - say, in deployed drones - would be feasible.

[@TheOneWhoMightBe]

The clips from theo bouvier are amazing!

[@giantfan5872]

NEBULOUS MENTIONED RAAAAH WTF IS A UNBEAMED LIFEPOD

[@sethhuff8657]

STABLE is coming for you

[@schadowsshade7870]

Yay another Sensors video 😃

[@DanielRMueller]

Very interesting video, the description of phase arrays was particularly interesting. Also always a great selection of video materials. Some triggering sci-fi nostalgia (Whoa - Space: Above and Beyond!), and some making me want to seek out the source. For example, I think I have to look closer into Nebelous Fleet Command. :)

[@henrycarlson7514]

Interesting , Thank You . We ALL need Better Scanners and Jammers

[@pougetguillaume4632]

Oooh that's a good one, sensors are often much more important to a weapon system's effectiveness than the explosive payload itself

[@Krahazik]

yup, because if you can not get the payload to the target, it is just a giant dangerous paperweight doing nothing for you.

[@ShuRugal]

"velocity and direction of travel" is redundant - 'velocity' is a vector value, it is both speed and direction.

[@lightspeedvictory]

An advantage with optical sensors, namely telescopes, is that with enough distance and a powerful enough telescope, you can see into the past. This allows you to see what has happened over a long period of time, especially if you’re trying to track down an elusive target. As for AESA radars, they can also be used as a radar jammer as well as be used for cyber warfare and act as a high power microwave weapon

[@g.williams2047]

The lower level tech sci fi work I’ve done for a universe had a targeting ship that would travel on long voyages with a fleet of cruisers to provide their targeting computer data and sensor support. Was a cool piece of kit that really spiced up the fleet combat.

[@henry5446]

Very interesting video! Looking forward to more.

[@TheCrateKing]

NEBULOUS FLEET COMMAND FEATURED RAHHHHH🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅

[@meat1590]

2:15 STARSECTOR MENTIONED 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔊🔊

[@GeneralDoge-f3c]

I love how spacedock used nebulous fleet command gameplay, as it is one of (if not the most) realistic sci-fi space combat games

[@electricminecrafter]

1:32 OMG IM SO HAPPY YOU INCLUDED CLIPS FROM 3-BODY, can you do an episode on the sci-fi stuff from the second Netflix season when it comes out because the second book had much more sci-fi tech than the first.

[@jakeaurod]

What about Muon shadow detectors or Gravitational field detectors? Muon detectors have been used with shipping containers and looking for voids in pyramids. I wonder if they could be used in space or if the lack of an atmosphere would preclude their creation. Although I wonder if Galactic Cosmic Ray shadows could be used similarly. Gravitational field detectors were proposed in Clancy's _The Hunt For Red October_ but I'm not sure how real they are. I think that idea, using laser reflections, was similar to the tech for gravity wave detectors, which are real.

[@Akavir7]

Oh one of my physics professors was the pyramid guy! So on earth narural muons are all created by the atmosphere interacting with high energy solar particles - and fun fact a muon's half life is so short we'd never see them at the surface if they weren't moving at relativistic speeds! Maybe you could have an artifical source painting an area you control though? Gravity has it's own problems - gravimeters measure all acceleration, and even the electric ones are quite sensative. Any ship that is going to accelerate to dodge, or even have things moving around it will drown out the signals. I could see Drone gravimeters though. Everything solid state and it locks the 0 length spring before it manuvers.

[@joshh3304]

For Ladar to work, you'd need to be moving significantly sub light to detect objects under a light-second away, or you'd miss your rebounce signal altogether. Otherwise awesome thinking and video! Pl keep it coming

[@stothal]

excellent use of a Mel Brooks movie there! Kudos

[@josxxiv]

I always thought that space warfare would resemble current submarine on submarine warfare. You can move in three planes and it’s a game of cat and mouse, trying to see without being seen in the vast openness of the void

[@viktoriaalden3452]

Sad that space to ground/surface sensors weren't mentioned, because you missed out on a chance of bringing up the ISV's from Avatar! They take advantage of their orbital velocity for synthetic aperture radars, which let's you get a higher detail radar picture. With a drawback being long exposure times. So they're good for static targets like terrain and structures. But I understand if it's diving too deep into only one possible option for planetary scans

[@kingssman2]

Be interesting to cover the range of REAL Space Combat. engagements 1km, >10KM, or over 100km? How would these sensors and lasers compensate for distance lag if combat is over 1 light second away?

[@patches3555]

Nebulous fleet command mentioned, peak video

[@50043211]

Sonar! Thats what you need in space first and foremost!

[@Alexandragon1]

Thx for the video!

[@philrm99]

Another excellent topic.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Ah, good ol’ solid state radar arrays. They’re one of the coolest things I’ve seen in the last few decades, and remarkably similar to the “sensor arrays” in Star Trek (long/wide sets of emitters, steering the signal in other ways).

[@Marinealver]

Which sensors can detect objects moving faster than light?

[@RorikH]

Well, if you can detect an object moving at FTL speeds, (FTL's not real, so how it looks is kind of the writer's choice, could be a bright flash, could just be the gravity waves you're picking up) but the signal from that object won't reach you before the object does, the best solution is probably some sort of loose cloud of FTL-capable scouts/drones that could pick up the signal and then use their own FTL drives to race the object they picked up back to their base/ship and get the warning there in time, or use some sort of quantum-entanglement based ansible. Leaving a drone or two in hyperspace with the programming to pop out and start transmitting when they see something coming could also work.

[@jakeaurod]

The only way we know how to do that currently is observing the blue light of Cherenkov Radiation, which requires the FTL object to be moving through a medium, like water, where lightspeed is slower.

[@DarthBiomech]

Using IRL? None, information can't trave faster than light even if you'll introduce a magic engine that allows you to travel faster than light. You can invent magic FTL sensors to detect FTL engines, but consider first would that make things more or _less_ interesting?

[@XMysticHerox]

@@DarthBiomech If you already have "magic" FTL engines FTL sensors are not much of a stretch. Also "but consider first would that make things more or less interesting?" is true for literally anything you put in a story.

[@QuantumNova]

Tachyon arrays scans at FTL. In my own story I use -Sharnada instant-space' detectors. This particular array scans an entire galaxy in real time in a radius of over 700,000 Lightyears. Requires an enormous phasonic energy reactor. (All other details are classified, sorry.)

[@RiceWD05]

Pretty neat. One issue that could come up, though one I haven't seen that often, is dealing with relativitistic affects. Issue in the Lost Fleet series when ships routinely go .10c

[@dawfydd]

Okay this video gets a like just for including Space above and beyond clips. That show is so much better than people give credit for, though the budget ran out and we get repeated dog fight clips in the show lol.

[@egoalter1276]

One important thing worth a mention is natural beam diffraction. All radiation rays, even completely monophasic monofrequency LASER naturally spreads out over travel due to quantum mechanics, which lowers your positional accuracy, and weakens your return signal strenght to power output ratio, effectively limiting detection range by active EM sensors based on the rate of diffraction. This rate is hugher with high wavelength radiation, making RADAR by necessity a relatively short ranged option compared to LIDAR. I'm uncertain how much this limits effective range for a sensor application, but for example a visable light laser with power output in the gigawatt range, and a focusing mirror tens of meters in diameter diffracts enough to stop being useful as an offensive weapon over a range of thousands of kilometers.

[@CheeseSlayer294]

Nebulous pog

[@ArbitraryConstant]

x-ray sensors have another advantage in that they are a very compact way to pick up emissions from pulsars, which can be used as a kind of volumetric space GPS system the enemy can't knock out and is accurate to within a few kilometers

[@eom1682]

Really recomend playing nebulous: fleet command if you want to learn about sensors and radar. Its not 1 to 1 realism but as an introduction in a game format it's the best out there.

[@hoojiwana]

I remembered to include it in the video this time! - hoojiwana from Spacedock

[@keilerbie7469]

why is spacedock now the best way to see new tlw renders and animations

[@tackyinbention6248]

Idk maybe he's on the team

[@morrischen5777]

I like that Elite danger's spaceship have gravitational wave sensor that convert the oscillation of gravitational energy into sound effect so the polit could hear and understand the scale intuitively.

[@larrykelbaughjr.1831]

The Millennium Falcon's dish has 2 sensor systems built-in to it! & there are other examples of ships using multiple radar/sensor systems in Star Wars!

[@OceanSpirit881]

Something to consider for the comments regarding gravity sensors is that gravity interactions are insanely weak. Our current detectors are colossal and can detect only cataclysmic events that create powerful gravity waves (like black hole collisions). Assuming you could miniaturize the detector (and you'd need at least three to calculate a vector) every accelerating mass is going to give you a signal, including moving parts of your own ship (crew included I'd guess). I think this would be a cool concept for an automated listening post, set them up in a solar system in stable orbits or buried deep underground on uninhabited celestial bodies and "listen" for anything big and with unnatural acceleration curves. At least you'd have a sense something is coming.

[@briankuczynski6884]

You've really sold how resource expensive space combat could be. Whatever arguments prevail against having humans in atmospheric dogfights go triple for spacefaring craft.

[@nickpalmer3065]

Will there be a video of space combat in gundam iron blooded orphans?

[@Flipdagoose]

Space engineers mentioned, deploying HELLL YEAHH

[@FearlessSon]

The mention of the computer systems to run the sensors reminded me of the Manticore/Haven war in the Honorverse series. Manticore had a technological edge over Haven when it came to sensor systems (among other things) but the truth was that Haven sensor systems weren't strictly less powerful than Manticorian ones. Rather, Manticore had more advanced computer systems running their sensors which could better cut out noise, more precisely identify targets, and better overcome electronic countermeasures than their Haven equivalents. While this gave the Manticorians a huge advantage earlier in the war, it was only a matter of time until the Havens could get their act together enough to focus their research and close that particular technological gap. Not that it helped them much as Manticore continued to make technological progress in other areas.

[@stizanley3987]

Great video

[@warmachine5835]

Passive Sensor: Mk1 Eyeball Active Sensor: Mk1 Eyeball with a Flashlight

[@unifiedhorizons2663]

what I find funny is that people ausme Billy the space miner with a combat vessel cable of camber versus the pirates. that one would fight to the death, which is unlikely. As soon as there ship has multiple hull breaches and pirates can’t fight the minor damages, they’d most likely surrender to minor combat ship and size of ship depends on how many hull breaches till the ship becomes a Coffin. humans ain’t a fan of that thing known as dying.

[@ultrajd]

I think heat sensors would be one of the most likely as well as magnetic sensors.

[@jacara1981]

Eventually there will be Gravimetric Sensors (yes these are real things). Right now they only work on really tiny things, atom to molecule level. However the sensitivity grows every year. Couple together LIGO type tech and even a stealth ship will show up like a beacon. Basically anything with mass, creates gravity waves, those waves can be detected, and location track. You can make out mass of the object, where it is, how fast its moving, and other things.