What Should You Learn First as an Illustrator? (Part 1) | Thoughts on Illustration Episode 3

[@mindbionic9535]

I really appreciate how you speak slowly! English isn't my first language, and I find it easier to understand and keep up with you that way.

[@TomFroese]

Happy to hear that!

[@ClareBlair-v3g]

Thank you Tom, I always feel like it’s too expensive to go back to school but as you say 4yrss vs 12yrs, it’s a no brainer especially as I’m that bit older.

[@IrynaBoehland]

Thank you, Tom! I appreciate your slower and clear way of bringing your points. Many podcasters rumble and rush, for no reasons. I like your way of explaining the way one should approach art learning. I have a university degree, not in art though, and I can see the value in formal art education. But like you mentioned - I am at the age and money/time restriction where formal education is impossible. As much as I desire it, I cannot do it. I did take 1 college course on basic design - I had to do lots of boring things, but it had its value. Art drawing class was a pain - no instructions, just paint or think about it for 3 hrs… time wasted 😅

[@KTeDe]

I appreciate your speed & your tone is calming. Thank you for the content from someone eager to learn and new to the industry.

[@TomFroese]

I appreciate that!

[@tempdavs2874]

Thank you for the timely advice Mr Tom❤

[@xenajj]

Hi! I really appreciate your cotents. as a foriegner, Your clear pronunciation and moderate pace really help with understanding. There are so many people in the world for whom English is their second language. Your lectures are clear and accurate enough to be understood even without subtitles. I want you to know that some people prefer your style! You have no idea how helpful you are. thank you Tom!

[@TomFroese]

Thank you! 😃

[@cctsai808]

Appreciated for speaking slow and steady, audience from Taiwan. ❤❤❤

[@TomFroese]

Thanks!

[@piotrvish]

Thank you Tom, I've learned from your content so much! With respect to the comment, I agree with the critics, but I should also note that maybe most of the people (knowingly or not) compare your content with thousands of other videos/podcasts which are quite trendy now. Sure, most of the content is around 10 min length with very dynamic energy levels (both in terms of editing/cuts, highened moods of the speakers and overall flow of information). And I really appreciate that you put your style of making things above, but also are willing to accommodate some of the critiques! Cheers!

[@TomFroese]

Hi Piotr, thanks for watching my content and for leaving a comment. I understand the world in which my podcast exists, especially here on KZbin. Part of finding our voice in creative spaces, whether Illustration or "content creation" is in leaning into what we are best at, and not worrying about what we're not so good at/don't want to do anyway. I do not like producing media rich videos; I'm more into clear and helpful ideas and insights, and so that is what I'm leaning into. Happy new year!

[@piotrvish]

@@TomFroese Thank you Tom, you too!

[@mariannebellstedt4070]

Hair is great. This content is eye opening- thank you.

[@TomFroese]

Ha, thanks Marianne!

[@Frl_Moehre]

Hi.. I really like you speaking slower for the foreign audience (me being one of them).. but I understand, that for native english speakers it might be too slow.. my tipp for youtube listeners: speed up the video in the settings ;)

[@daisylopezartist]

Same. English is not my 1st language. Sometines, I prefer people talk slower so I could process what they're saying.

[@TomFroese]

Thanks Frl. Möhre! I did try to speed up my cadence to something more natural in this episode. How was it for you?

[@TomFroese]

Thanks Daisy! Even as an English speaker, I like when people speak slower - especially if they mumble like I do ;)

[@Frl_Moehre]

@@TomFroese I like the way you speak! It is not to slow and not to fast. I wouldn‘t even say it is slow, it is just simply pleasing to listen to! It makes it easy to process.

[@aperson1166]

I like this too , personally I have to speed it up because I struggle to put together words if the sounds are too long (hope that makes sense) but its easier to speed it up and understand than slow it down

[@shanghaitatoo]

I really appreciate the topic and your insight! I'm one of those people who don't have access to a school that offers an illustration degree, and at my age, I can't really afford to move to another city or even country and start over again. So I choose to do a visual art degree at a local university. It mainly focuses on painting and printmaking, with a good level of flexibility. My only complaint is that we are required to do a lot of 'theory' units that involve a bunch of students from different degrees, and I found them to have very little relevance to visual art. But that's what I have to compromise to not having to move cities or even countries to study art. Criticizing degrees are not 'useful' seems to be a trend online and on youtube, with many motives behind such statements. However, I always find that a school is a place for personal development, rather than a place for job-related training. I sure don't use the complex math I had to learn at school when I was young, but it contributed to me developing skills that were beyond my capabilities - I was never a very 'logically minded' kid when I was young, but now I am, and I am grateful for it. When I started to learn art I didn't like collage, I knew nothing about it and didn't like it, but thanks to school I now know it's an essential technique behind many illustrations 'looks' that I gravitate towards, and I'm grateful that I didn't just ' do only what I like' when I didn't know enough to judge what I would actually like. Knowledge and experiences are not meant to be directly 'useful', they contribute to awareness, how much you can make sense of and understand the world, and how far you can develop intellectually as a person. I think we need to rethink the way we want everything to be 'useful' these days and regard anything ' not directly useful' to be pointless. Exploration is not that 'useful', you end up discarding 80-90% of experiments and failures, but it's essential if you want to discover anything new. That being said, I do understand the complaints about universities from people who live in the US. I don't live in the US, but I heard It's really expensive there and there's also no government assistance available, so it becomes quite exclusive. Education should not be a market-driven business, although it is sadly a reality for people in many countries. This is why channels and videos like yours, Tom, are so valuable.

[@TomFroese]

Hi P. Thank you so much for your comment. Well said! We need useful skills, but we also need to be exposed to things that at the time feel impractical or useless. 3 or 4 years in university may seem like the long way to get to an illustration career, but it’s actually the fastest way to get exposed to a diverse array of ideas that get you thinking outside your boxes. I went to both community college (more hands on and technical) and to university (more theoretical and academic), and I will say it was in university that I got very uncomfortable, that my world view was challenged, and this is a good thing for creativity and personal growth alike. We become more mature and take this with us, even into our careers. It’s absolutely bizarre that the leading country in the free world makes higher education so inaccessible to its own people. I hope that changes.

[@ikonographics]

I just discovered your channel and to hear you quoting Metropolitan Kallistos is awesome!

[@TomFroese]

Hello, thanks for watching! Memory eternal!

[@alexcristianginting1691]

Hi Tom, thanks for this video, I've been following you for some time, but this is my first time commenting, especially because you bring out Late + Metr. Ware famous take on the Church. As a visual comms designer turned graphic illustrator as a profession, I can understand about the need to take study in college/university. From my experience, what's lacking from my education as visual communication student is fundamentals. Working mainly with digital tools gave me a feeling to always work quickly and now, in my very late 20s, as I am looking my way to be more focused on illustrator, I find its very hard to appreciate the long process I've to take.

[@TomFroese]

Thanks for taking time to comment, Alex! Glad to know some of my viewers are familiar with Ware. University programs aren’t great at teaching the hands on stuff like photoshop and illustrator. I get more into that in Episode 4 (coming mid Jan) - stay tuned!

[@alexcristianginting1691]

@@TomFroese my experience was more heavy on the digital aspect rather than on the traditional tools, at least that was my experience as university student in Indonesia since university here was seen more as an institution mainly in race with industry need, which is more on the digital side (early 2010s seen a boom of digital agency and creative industry (which was seen more as a part of technology and information industry explosion rather than art here). Nowadays, as a graduate student on a fine art graduate school (nevertheless still a visual comms student working on information comics x theology project :D) I can see how strong fundamentals really can help the illustrator to have a lot of PATIENCE when exploring ideas and drawing. I think patience is a super fundamental skill that everyone of us must have and hone, and I think every illustrator who had experience of hardships and struggles with traditional art projects have more patience than us who only tasted them briefly. Eternal Memory to + Metr. Kalistos! I find his magnum opus, the Orthodox Church and Orthodox Way, as a sublime and transformational read and I absolutely LOVE his talks on KZbin. I am looking forward to your next episode~

[@aperson1166]

I'm really enjoying this, I'm going to go to university hopefully in 2024 for illustration. Until then, I'm on an art course to get there and I'm trying to close that learning gap

[@TomFroese]

Thanks ! Get after it!

[@bbbibi]

hey tom! i really like your work and i loved this podcast! i love this visual podcast format and i would love if you could put the names and visual examples on screen while you are talking about it! happy new year!!!

[@TomFroese]

Thanks, BIBI! I will consider adding simple names/titles in the video, I agree it would help. But per Episode 0, I am leaning into being a podcast so that I don't have to do things like that (which I don't like to do!). I'll see if my video editor can do this though. At the same time, I have organized these names in the video description - let me know if you don't find something there that I mention. Happy New Year!

[@shrutiawasthi1955]

I just am feeling so overwhelmed. It's an unknown fear of failing. Because I can't afford to fail this time.

[@TomFroese]

Stay positive. Just do your best and see what happens.

[@SR-ql9he]

I fundamentally disagree. A lot of people that did go to art school complain about doing so many things they never used and personally I think it saves so much time to focus on a specific thing in illustration (for example drawing people) rather than learning everything and basically only using 10% in the end.

[@TomFroese]

Hi S R. Thanks for your comment. I am always happy to hear other opinions. I agree that many people get frustrated with the "fluff" involved in a college education. I suppose it depends on what you want and value, and also in your perspective. I wanted a college level education (as a designer at first) because I knew it would expose me to unexpected ideas and questions I would never have thought to ask. But I also knew that it was important to be in a place where others were learning the same thing, and being amidst mentors (teachers) who could point the way for me in a more personal way. There was a lot of nonsense as well. And to be honest, I would NEVER be a teacher in a regular university or college (perhaps something to talk about in a future episode). At the end of the day, though, I value being well-rounded and learning more than I need. Later on I can judge what was the 90% fluff and what was the 10% "useful" essentials. I believe you have to learn more than you need to make this call.

[@SR-ql9he]

@@TomFroese Yeah, I get where you're coming from with this, I think it really depends on the personality. I actually went to university (to study literature, though, not art) and I would say that it was an experience that I value. However, from what I've seen in the last few years in the illustration community, I feel like a lot of people say that their art degree didn't help them with the actual important stuff but again, it probably depends on the personality and also the circumstances.

[@gilbert928]

Thanks for the info and if people don’t like how slow you speak they can feel free to hit the 2x speed in the settings box

[@TomFroese]

Agreed!

[@RipperStudio]

Hey Tom, do you have any videos explaining how much a freelance artist should pay themselves? I am struggling a lot to find any content steered in that direction. I've been self-employed doing freelance work for about 3 years now but pretty much all of the money I make goes into my family bank account to pay bills etc. My business overhead is minimal (software costs, supplies) but I want to have funds to get the occasional merchandise created. I need to figure out how much to pay myself for bills etc but also have money set aside for business ventures. Any insight would be appreciated! Thanks!

[@TomFroese]

Thanks Ryan! Interesting question. I don’t think that’s a question many ask so why it’s not easy to find an answer to. My own approach is to pay myself a salary from what I earn, and from that salary I pay all my household expenses, contribute to investments and savings, etc. Whatever is left in my business account is available for investing in the business and paying business expenses like my Adobe subscription and studio rent.

[@RipperStudio]

@@TomFroese Thank you so much for your response. The more I've thought about it the more I come to that same conclusion as you've stated but I have never heard anyone else's thoughts on it. So once again thank you!

[@reemeiali]

Thank you for sharing this with us ❤❤

[@TomFroese]

My pleasure 😊

[@The_LousyArtist]

Would you recommend studying Monotype printing in Printmaking?

[@TomFroese]

Hi Sumit! Do you mean monoprints? Then yes, absolutely.

[@The_LousyArtist]

@@TomFroese yes, I use gelly plate to make prints.

[@gordacapivara]

I absolutely disagree with you 100% without a doubt. You don't know what you are talking about. You are wrong... Because... 01:48 Your hair looks great

[@TomFroese]

Capivara! You got me! 🤣 I've gotta say, I was disappointed that this was not real pushback. I was excited to have a juicy comment to respond to in my next listener mail segment! 😜 Funny guy!

[@TomFroese]

Oh, but thanks for the hair compliment 💇‍♂️❤️

[@lisahutler7692]

You are a wonderful professor, but for a KZbin tutorial...this is a bit too much of a harrange.

[@TomFroese]

I understand that not everyone is going to listen to these longer episodes on KZbin. I'm taking feedback like yours to heart, trying to make sure I don't ramble and get as quickly to the point as I can! Keep in mind, even with improvements, my podcast episodes will not be formatted for maximum KZbin engagement. Thank you!

[@div6005]

too much introduction and slow. i'll find another channel. thanks

[@TomFroese]

Thanks for stopping by.