What Sim Racers Don't Understand About TC & ABS

Traction control is a controverse topic in sim racing. Should you turn it on, should you even push it to the max or should you turn it off to have the best racing experience? In this video Ermin is going to guide you through all the different options to help you improving your lap time.
How do you handle traction control? Let us know in the comments! 👇✍️
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#simracing #tractioncontrol #abs

[@alpha007org]

As said at the end: GT3 cars are designed to be driven with TC and ABS. [edited] Real life GT3 drivers are using a lot more TC and ABS than we do in ACC.

[@The_18th_Fret]

I've already read that GT3 cars always use TC, it's F1 cars that don't use TC

[@FG-td4vs]

@@pancake5830 and?

[@christiantracey915]

the Pro-Am drivers would use a higher amount than the Pro's to stop spinning/locking up over a stint. However, the Pro drivers use less because the driver aids use more fuel/less power

[@alpha007org]

@@christiantracey915 Driver aids uses more fuel? I know mode for "cooling the machine" uses a ton of fuel, but it's the first I'm hearing ABS/TC uses more power. If you have any link, I would be grateful because it is counterintuitive. TC cuts engine / throttle to prevent wheels from spinning.

[@christiantaylor1495]

@@pancake5830 Interesting point, Pancake!

[@asawyer2872]

Just a quick correction on ABS, it isn't there to shorten braking distances. ABS and the fact it prevents locking, allows you to continue to steer to avoid a hazard.

[@utkarshchaurasia2233]

Wait why wouldn't abs shorten braking distance? Isn't coefficient of static friction higher than sliding friction. That would mean keeping the tyre rolling would give you more coefficient of friction and therefore better stopping distance?

[@McLlama-qt7nu]

Well yes and no. Basically, @A Sawyer is right, it does shorten braking distances if you can brake like a pro racing driver w/o ABS. This is due to 2 effects: 1. ABS is pulsating the brake pressure around the Grip limit -> is to much, then not enough etc. 2. The optimum coefficient of friction of a rubber tire is actually at around 12% of slip as far as I know, so braking just above the limit will be most effective (still (often) poor technique (more wear, car unstable))If, however, you aren‘t a great driver, then braking w/ ABS is definetly shorter than just stamping on the brakes and locking all the way through the braking zone

[@Ermz]

@@McLlama-qt7nu Indeed. Coincidentally, this is thoroughly covered during the first two minutes of the video.

[@McLlama-qt7nu]

@@ErmzIndeed xD Great video 👍

[@spitfirefrench]

@@bratosin1lmao

[@frostblght]

I guess my next question would be if you practiced without assists, would there be a point at which you can actually go faster than someone who practiced the same but who has assists on? Would be interesting to find out

[@Ermz]

In some sims, for sure. In ACC? I have my doubts. You'd have to put in some serious perfection for that to be possible, and the potential risks just wouldn't be worth it in the GT3 cars.

[@xanderjacobs1952]

In theory yes, looking at more powerful or simply quicker cars for a more obvious example using tc or abs will lose you so much lap time. These cars in this game and especially over a race distance consistently being quick and only losing out by the smallest of margins talking thousands of a second in a corner is probably not worth it. Looking at F1, different story of course!

[@DjDolHaus86]

In theory yes but in reality it's a case of how much you'd potentially gain by getting it 100% perfect vs. how much you'd lose by getting it 5% wrong. Over a lap you might be a shade faster on that one perfect lap but over a race you'd be substantially slower due to the cumulative mistakes on the other 19 laps far outweighing that one perfect lap

[@void_snw]

@@natebass1482 F1 2020 is very different, more of a simcade as well as having an entirely different car type with tons of more downforce and huge wheels. Even if F1 games were hardcore sims, those cars are designed to run without TC / ABS, due to FIA restrictions. Believe me, if they could, they would.

[@void_snw]

@Frostbight I'd bet yes, on raw pace alone. Problems start coming up when you factor in consistency, push-ability, and fighting for positions. The safety blanket of even minimal assists makes for a much bigger sweet spot you can ride, without the immediate and very strong punishment of a small mistake.

[@MegaDanielSK]

Important thing to mention especially for newcomers: TC and ABS are there to be fiddled with, just like car tuning. A circuit like Monza will reward using less TC because there are lots of straights. When you have a feel for the throttle, you can put more power down and have a higher top speed as a result. If you then switch to a circuit that's intensive on chicanes and turns, more TC can improve your consistency in a race because small mistakes can be mitigated and your line will therefore stay roughly the same. What nobody seems to mention is rain. Depending on rain intensity and tire choice, even professional racers sometimes turn TC and ABS up to max. Of course, the lower you can keep it, the better, but you should definitely increase it compared to your dry setup. All in all, it's something you should be ready to change on the move. Even your rhythm can influence its' effectiveness, so being able to constantly rotate these settings and mastering them can most definitely help you become a better sim racer.

[@lamparup2166]

the thing is you can actually change the TC and ABS mid lap before every corner to have on the level you want so it is not like a permanent change in the setup this is also worth to mention

[@Ben-Rogue]

This is why I like how GT Sport has an easy toggle system, to encourage less experienced drivers to experiment in real-time with assists

[@MagnumLoadedTractor]

Also for ovals and rovals toss the tc out cuz you're gonna lose a lot of speed in the banked corners

[@MiguelMedV]

I love your comment, truly the most informative I've found here so far, really Really Thank you for that 👍🏻💯🌟...

[@rogeriohonesko]

@@Ben-Rogue in gran turismo any assist will make you slower, because it is an arcade in skin of sim. I use to play gt7 raced way faster with tcs ans asm totally off. Only abs that is necessary.

[@Shakshuka69]

TC and ABS to a racing driver are like calculators to a mathematician. Should you be able to do without them? Yes. Those are the fundamentals. But it's always going to be faster to use them.

[@connorminniss1682]

Couldn't have put it better myself!

[@Yadeehoo]

Tires and wheels also go hand in hand. Could you ride without tires ? - Heh Most always going to be faster with tires

[@mondexponent2126]

Depends on the racing series. I mean in the GTWC they’re all driving with TC. Especially when driving Endurance. Those cars are built to run with them. I don’t think that it would be worth the risk to drive without both

[@Leonardo-vj3hm]

ABS is not always in real life

[@MrHaggyy]

And GT graded systems wont even hinder you. As these systems wont get triggered on a perfect lap on good tarmac. TC can be anoying if you want to cut corners or just want to steam threw a slipery part that is so short that it can destabelise the car.

[@cody4873]

I think the word "assist" is what gets everybody. Simracing is full of so many high ego'ed [just like every passion] people that want to feel better then someone. For them to race with no "assists" makes them feel entitled and "better". In reality I think things like TC and ABS only become a "assist" when it's something not designed for the car [IE TC and ABS on F1 cars]. But to paint TC and ABS as an assist to make it easier for a GT car is absurd given that they are designed for the car and used in real life by professionals.

[@Cr4z3d]

Hence why I just choose "factory default" for TC and ABS in AC.

[@Cr4z3d]

Hence why I just choose "factory default" for TC and ABS in AC.

[@EvilNeuro]

What’s ironic is f1 had tc and abs in the 90s but was banned obviously to keep it competitive added back in the 2000s but then removed again personally I use assists. (Mostly abs unless the car has tc irl

[@cody4873]

@@EvilNeuro I mean at the end of the day, it don’t matter what you use. We’re all playing a game essentially and just trying to enjoy a passion.

[@Saldivinorum]

*than

[@goodlookinouthomie1757]

I must remember to thank my grandmother as she has evidently inspired all kinds of motoring safety technology.

[@planestrainsandautomobiles8065]

Don’t think of assists as “you can’t stay on the track otherwise”, think of them as “doing a faster lap” assist.

[@ApothecaryTerry]

They can be both!

[@mizoba]

no

[@comdrive3865]

@@mizoba no no

[@suparosc02]

"assists" are the regular electronics that you would have in a race car, man...

[@Kiramitsuoka]

I remember back when I was a freshman in GTR2 the prayer was a bit like this "Learn to drive without assist first to be able to utilize the assists to their max potential" like, if they kick in, make sure they kick in as little as possible. Or a bit like "know/learn the limit of your car, then see how much the assist systems can extend that limit" if that makes any sense. I still handle it like that, but I don't race that much anymore and I don't know how that would fit with newer SimRacers like Assetto Corsa and the like.

[@garethlee7927]

My first sim was GTR then GTR2. I remember there was a huge uproar because GTR2 was supposedly easier to control. GTR and Rfactor 1 felt similar so everyone thought tougher equals realism.

[@wickedtwix]

Very good point. Using assists does not mean that you cannot drive but it gives you the ability during the course of a race to feel where the limit ist without actually going over it and crashing. As the point where the limit is shifts during a race due to temperature, weight, tyre use etc. you have to be a very, very talented driver to consistently be at the limit without actually going over it. Aids can give you a hint and you can either push a corner harder or back off a little next round.

[@larryhouse3776]

TC and ABS are great to have as a safety net. In a minimal setting, not intrusive to the point you're just putting the gas or brake to the mat. But to the point where TC might catch you if you come over a crest and lose grip or abs catching you if you catch a curb accidently and upset your balance. When they're on minimal settings, if you're driving properly, they should never interfere.

[@frevazz3364]

I agree. I've been racing alot of ACC lately and some turns, especially going up a hill, the TC kicks in and makes me spin out. I don't spin out with TC off or at 1.

[@epeli0035]

I always use TC and ABS at 1 in AC. Rarely TC Off but ABS will always be on 1 if the car has an option for it.

[@jr6136]

1:3 for TC:ABS is the sweetspot for the 720s. I remember I was using 4:6 when I first began, I was losing so much time. Trailbraking is key in the 720s tho, and that was something I overlooked.

[@nortski78]

That's really interesting as "Coach Dave" say's that you can't trail brake in the 720s.

[@Skippy-id9yt]

@@nortski78 he drives a Ferrari irl right?....... You can trail brake in whatever you want along as there's a throttle and brake pedal

[@crawfordbrown75]

You must be super aggressive on the trail and really should be slamming the throttle down on corner exit (when the rear has come around) Post patch I'm using 3 or 4 abs and 3 or 4 TC. I'm probably as fast as Ermin, not alien for sure.

[@jr6136]

@@nortski78 It was definitely more difficult to do it prior to the update. However, as Skippy said, anything can be trailbraked. Kinda odd Dave said that tbh. I will note that using brakes (your own setups) that allow for higher brake pressures allows for more range for trailbraking.

[@jr6136]

@@crawfordbrown75 I'm surprised to see someone using 3 TC in the 720. Only time I've been using it that high is at Outlon and whatnot. I'm certainly not as fast as Ermin, but the setups I adapt are from someone of his caliber. I have upped the ABS to 4 at over half the tracks now

[@AidanMillward]

People seem to have a hard time differentiating between a tool and a talent replacer. It’s the auto-tune of driving. TC and ABS are tools. And if having them in bothers people that much, they can turn em off.

[@adamwalczak8363]

Love your videos

[@almightyIrie]

While auto-tune is and was used as a tool, it is 100% a talent replacer when used to create that audible signature effect it is famous for.

[@lewisjones284]

@@almightyIrie The effect you're describing can be used for many reasons past hiding flaws, especially when you listen to things such as hyperpop, trap etc. For many genres it acts as an instrument. You wouldn't have a violinist replace a keyboard because anyone can play a simple riff on the keyboard. Not only is that elitist, but it also completely changes the timbre.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

Strange, because WRC cars have ABS and LMP cars have traction control. F1 cars have anti-stall, hydraulic power steering and launch control, as well as ERS and DRS, which are technically assists too.

[@jl4859]

Exactly!

[@p0yyy]

Great video to point it out! But I'd like to mention the reasons why it's faster: ABS and TCS can brake wheel individual and the driver inputs are always for the whole vehicle. If you lock up the front right tire while braking, it means that the other 3 tires are still not above their grip capabilities. A car without ABS need to reduce the overall brake pressure to avoid locking up the front right and hence loses deceleration in the other 3 wheels. An ABS can lower the brake pressure at the locking wheel and the 3 others can continue to work close to their limits. And the other thing is important for endurance racing. The risk of having a flat spot due to locking is highly reduced, which allows longer tire use, less risk and hence better overall results.

[@GeekOfAllness]

Bear in mind that the "each wheel at lockup" thing is more hypothetical than real in many cases. ABS uses cadence braking, not threshold braking, so it's not that much better than being fully locked up on most older cars as far as absolute grip goes. Its main advantage is that it lets you turn while panic stopping so you can drive around the guy instead of sliding into him (ideally, though it often fails in practice). I've driven some newer cars where the ABS is actually good (to the point where it actually prevents lockup). But I've driven a lot more cars where the ABS tried to kill me, and in most cars the ABS is just a paperweight they were required to put in because of some legislation. It does seem to be reasonable in the snow and ice, which is where I'd most want it to work, but it's not something you can rely on in a race, or on any kind of drive pavement. Yes, really good ABS on a race car is probably quite good. But not all sim racing is done in GT3 cars, and not all sim ABS models that kind of ABS. Actual "traction control" never worked on individual wheels. It was always a way of modulating the entire engine so all drive wheels are affected simultaneously. Modern cars use the ABS to put pressure on a single tire that starts spinning, but that's not exactly "traction control". It's called things like "electronic (limited slip) differential", "ediff", etc., and I do it all the time on my lawn tractor with a gloved hand (I learned it from a HMMWV instruction manual), and it works fine. And many cars have mechanical limited slip differentials that work. But those are very much distinct from traction control. If your sim is simulating an ediff (or just straight up ignores physics and reduces power to each axle like a magic LSD), then you're right that it operates on individual wheels. But if it's simulating normal TCS, it doesn't. Also, most of the time you've got simulated actual LSD, which means you don't need TCS to keep both wheels at the limit.

[@Sergeeeek]

Isn't LSD used pretty much universally in any modern racing cars?

[@Delimon007]

@@GeekOfAllness You can still threshold brake using abs

[@GeekOfAllness]

@@Delimon007 Yes, but the ABS doesn't always prevent lockup on the individual wheels in a way that's substantially better than no ABS. And sometimes the ABS kicks in before you actually get to threshold, making it impossible to brake as hard under ideal conditions.

[@epicshibexd5049]

Don't GTE use only TC and no ABS?

[@diplomatofthesosbrigade931]

The main reason I drive with assists off is because most of the racing series I like, say, Le Mans GTE, don't allow them. I think it's less about pace and moreso showcasing the skill of car control.

[@Official_MikeyT]

GTE cars have (had 🙁) TCS.

[@bobdrooples]

If someone is faster than you with TC and abs you are just handicapping yourself pointlessly.

[@joelambert7128]

@@bobdrooples if you are not racing professionally then that is probably completely irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of sim racing is conducted in an environment where the stakes are tiny or non-existent - if people wish to challenge themselves, hone their car control, or "role-play" in their favourite racing series, then there is no good reason to stop them. Equally, for almost anyone, the limitation on your lap time is yourself, not the car you are driving - unless you are already a world class driver, you can probably find the time TC and ABS might buy you with practise alone.

[@MagnumLoadedTractor]

@@bobdrooples what if he is bored or in case of sims like gt7 wants to follow the rules of the racing series?

[@barbaalghul]

​@@Official_MikeyT They can still have traction control at least on Le Mans(it's the one that I know for sure), it's on the 2022 technical regulations. Traction control and assisted gear shift are permited, anything else no. (so no ABS on Le Mans).

[@ConnorLHW2004]

I don’t think Assists =/= lap time. Ultimately depends what you are doing in terms of the motorsports. Rally = No Assists pretty much. Track racing = dependant on what you are driving. GT3 equals yes for ABS(because the ABS in these cars are advanced) and somewhat yes for TC. ACC for this patch have said if the situation calls for it you can run 0 TC and it could be faster than 1 TC in the right situations ofc. Street cars depend on power and age and also that basics of these systems. As lower power and more understeering handling means you might need to power slide or use the power a lot more than TC might allow to find that ability to slip the tires for its max grip

[@ald3nt3]

what i realized during one of my tries to get into track racing sims (i mostly do rallysims) is that it's increadilbe hard to pull yourself out of an overshot corner. In rally cars without tc you simply just overrotate the car and sit on the throttle in order to not fly out of the corner (given a car with a driven rear axle. With FWD weight shift will prevent any tries in this directiong). It's a bit of timeloss but less than pulling out of the tree you just crashed into. with tc the car will prevent any power to the wheels in that situation and you sit there while the barrier is coming closer and closer

[@connorbingel7134]

In dirt rally I have all assists turned off. The main type of racing I watch is nascar and if you think there gonna give you assists even on road courses or at 1/2 miles you’re kidding your self

[@pluemas]

Some of the fastest rally cars ever had ABS, TC and even GPS guided suspension control. It was banned by the FIA as rally was getting too expensive and was losing manufacturers, not because it didn't make for faster cars. A computer will always be able to react quicker to changes in road surface than a human, and as such driving assists if properly implemented will make for faster cars. Race ABS and TC is a completely different beast to road going versions. Race versions are built to allow you to get closer to the very edge of what's possible than a pure humans ability can allow, while road systems are built to prevent you from going to fast or even approaching that edge.

[@ChefofWar33]

@@connorbingel7134 Why the fuck would you need assists on an oval? All you do is turn left.

[@R3AL-AIM]

This is the best answer. Some people are faster with a tighter and slower car, because they are a slower driver. Other people are somewhat faster with a much more loose car, because they are a better driver.

[@SlowerIsFaster139]

It may be faster to keep assists on. But its more fun to turn them off and thats what I care about. Plus when I want to drift I can

[@flameburstgt6503]

With so many people saying learn to drive without TC and ABS made me felt like a noob , but considering i don’t have a steering wheel and only using a controller, I’m not afraid to use TC and ABS as I need them to drive properly. Anyways great video

[@Kultivater]

Driving with a controller is definitely what should be making you feel like a noob. You can't be a sim racer with a controller. That's like trying to play football with a baseball bat.

[@Lobstersarefabulouz]

@@Kultivater shut up with your gate keeping. Let people have fun

[@flameburstgt6503]

@@Kultivater not everyone can buy a sim rig, you think is that easy to get one? then help

[@mattdsoares]

That's because like many niche hobbies many people involved are elitist gatekeepers who want to make themselves feel special.

[@axellyann5085]

Controller is very hard to be consistent. I know the pain. Sometimes i do a flying lap that make gods of racing feel proud, but when i try to be consistent it turn in a disaster.

[@DK-xr3jc]

Awesome video! This really needed to be said, I remember this being one of the first things I learned when getting into GT racing and more of the sim focused games coming from F1 codemasters having all assists off - I was so confused with how people were driving so well because I thought everyone drove with assists off 🤡

[@rajgill7576]

When you meet a sim racer capable of going without abs, and using it to his advantage, it's amazing. The type of person out there who can squeeze better braking than abs is talented

[@Wylie288]

No they can't. Not in a real sim. The human brain is physically not capable of being better than ABS.

[@FukU2222]

Machines are only as good as the person who programmed them. That said, a human cannot control wheels independently with a single pedal, no

[@brapa1190]

@@Wylie288 Nascar drivers drive with no abs and TC, Nascar does road course especially Cota, they have 7 road courses

[@Kecenaa]

@@Wylie288 are you crazy? everybody knows abs is more secure because you can change direction while braking in panic mode but in a straight line abs on vs off, off will always be faster to a full stop. And im talking about real life here not simracing, i dont drive cars with assists in simracing.

[@I_Punch_Demons]

Games like Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo needs to impletment TC and ABS systems like this. This video is spot on as to why I hate these arguments in the forums great videos.

[@BillStreetStudios]

I think gt sport lets you adjust the tc intensity but in forza it's either on or off

[@focussport]

Its very easy in GT Sport to drive pretty much everything without TC, so don't use it.

[@My40Love]

Why? They are arcades

[@I_Punch_Demons]

@@My40Love you can still have arcade handling and proper implementation of TV and ABS.

[@YellowEvoV110]

@@My40Love your slighly wrong forza motorsport sport is a arcade sim so you will notice some arcade handling. And Granturismo is normal sim. It has a pretty realistic handling. If that werent the case why should fia do official online racing cups

[@IllPearce]

Finally! Glad i came across this because my friend swears that if we drive no assists we'll be faster. Granted i play at his house on his rigs, but i was always like, running the assists can't be that bad lol. At least i can go in a straight line lol

[@BadgerOff32]

I also argued this point till I was blue in the face on GT Sport. So many people would say "Turn off TC!" as if it was some kind of one-size-fits-all solution to simply 'going faster', when it's not. It's far more nuanced than that. GT Sport had 6 TC settings, 1 to 5, with 1 being mild and 5 being strong, and of course 0, for off altogether. You'd never want it set to 5 because it would cut far too much power in corners and would definitely handicap you, but in many cars you also wouldn't want it off entirely either as it made some cars VERY difficult to drive. It was always a case by case basis. Setting it to 2 or 3 in a race was usually beneficial. I'll use the Mazda Atenza (my main race car) as an example. In the GR4 version of car you could easily turn off TC entirely because it had a 4WD system that would drag you round corners no problem which made it very hard to spin it when exiting corners, but if you turned TC off on the GR3 version of the Atenza (which was a RWD) it became a real handful to drive, and was quite prone to oversteer if you gave it too much throttle out of a corner. I normally had my GR3 Atenza TC set to 2. I'd usually tell people, "try turning TC off when setting your qualifying time, but turn it back on for the race. That way you give yourself a little extra safety net when you're pushing the car hard. You don't want to lose a race because you pushed the throttle a millimetre too much on one corner and spun it. Then, if you need to throw caution to the wind and find some extra speed, you can turn TC off to find a bit more, but you'll also have to be hyper aware of your throttle inputs if you do"

[@MikkoRantalainen]

I'm using optimal TC and ABS settings for my sim racing. However, if you want realism (this is sim racing after all) you honor the requirements of the class so if you drive F1 cars, both TC and ABS are disallowed by regulations. And those are disallowed to make driving F1 cars harder, that is making overtaking a bit easier. Fully optimized TC and ABS systems can always do better work than even the most skillful drivers because fully implemented TC can do torque vectoring (that is, giving intentionally more torque to specific wheel which is not possible with a single accelerator pedal no matter how high skill level you have) and ABS can brake each wheel with different amount to maximize deceleration and rotation at the same time. Again, no matter how much skill you have, as long as your brake pedal is just a single pedal, you cannot do similar stuff with a single pedal only. The problem with TC and ABS is that it makes overtaking harder. For racing series where overtaking is already hard, allowing those assists will make overtaking nearly impossible. I fully agree that TC and ABS improves your lap times if you can tune them to fit your driving style. Some games such as Project Cars 2 have very limited settings for TC and ABS, though.

[@kevinogorman7561]

The dry sarcasm on the “no assists” run killed me.

[@AppicGamePlayer]

very good video, though i still think its good practice to turn off the assists in acc and try to nail a lap, but ofcourse in the actual race its more about consitency so its absolutely smart to turn the assists on to the lowest level you can handle. As you get told at the start of acc, racing starts from being safe and consistent, not from being fast. have a good one yall.

[@Ochatach]

I see and hear a video with Ermin, I click Like

[@theofanmahmuti1053]

Love your humour dude. Keen to see this channel grow, you got my support!

[@seancrisel5994]

Great Vid, Good to see you still making content here

[@olavafargamer757]

I think that with some more practice you will get below full assists with no assists. It is still is very hard to beat the first setup though and the safety margin is just so much larger so in the long run it will be better. Very minor errors which are almost not noticed or at least possible to handle is likely to cause a disaster with no asissts because you WILL be at the limit. This is the same for pros and noobs (just another limit).

[@joelou]

Okay, this video is absolutely great! This is exactly what I was curious about, thank you

[@SlyNine]

I am forever grateful for this. I had almost given up on ACC

[@muhkuhrider]

Thanks a lot! This really had me struggling for some time now. I thought I was just bad.

[@danielsgrunge]

I usually run cars like they were intended to run IRL, seems fair to me

[@circleprex]

Learnt that pretty quickly in Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2 after coming from Forza Motorsport 7. Without assists the cars were almost undriveble so I set assists on low settings as well, though on some cars like FXX K I had to use the full assists because the car was just too powerful for me. Since I haven’t got a wheel it is even more difficult driving with a controller , hopefully I will get me proper wheel set very soon

[@Windows-pl1ov]

Tbh i have a wheel for over a year now and i still cant drive any of the hypercars in assetto corsa because they feel like they have no grip at all even with semi slicks. High powered cars in beamng feel so much better, i have a mod for a pagani huayra and it is so much easier to drive in beamng than in assetto corsa.

[@nightdriver7216]

Race cars in Forza are usually faster with TC.

[@BmikroB]

I really enjoyed this informative piece on TC & ABS Ermin, many thanks for this vid! I also not just laughed at the "Try saying 'Assistive Systems' 3 times really fast" part, I lost it at the 'asstitive' typo at 3:34 & 'Assisitve' typos at 3:44 as well. xD

[@FurryestX]

THANK YOU, Finally someone understands me!!🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@fuzzywumble]

I mainly play Gran Turismo Sport and have dabbled in ACC. I think it's helpful to practice without assists (especially in GTS) as it can really teach you where the limit is. But I see nothing wrong with using assists during a race where things can go.. not your way. Yes, when you're a complete noob and barely learning the basics, assists will help a little, but the sooner you can control the car without them, the better. That said, there's nothing wrong with using assists once you have an understanding of car control and racing technique. Modern race cars use TCS and ABS anyway, so unless you're an analog purist, there's no reason to abstain from them. mostly, just have fun :)

[@MagnumLoadedTractor]

Jaguar f type gr3 can barely oversteer with a good set up

[@zaq9339]

I'm no expert but GTS is not a sim really. It was designed to be enjoyed on a controller. Personally I find cars' behavior in that game unnatural with both assists on and off, especially after coming from AC. I remember being instantly quicker with assists all the way off. As if it makes no difference which way you choose to go. AC on the other hand is a whole different story. Every change you make to your car takes hours to adjust to. Assists could definitely be helpful in learning the ropes or online when most of the time outright pace is not as important as keeping it on the black stuff.

[@fuzzywumble]

@@zaq9339 agreed, GTS is not a true sim, but does have some sim elements. it's what led me into sim-racing. And I can definitely see how going from a true sim to GT would be pretty underwhelming. However, the opposite is pretty good. I dont have a wheel (yet) so I havent played ACC as much. but after some fiddling with the controller settings, I could get something that was usable. I have to say, if I didnt have any experience with GTS, ACC on controller would be absolutely impossible to get any decent lap times. can't wait until I can get a wheel :) if you're ever on GTS again tho, add me, shippickle90 and let's compare skill >:)

[@zaq9339]

@@fuzzywumble Maybe you're right. Doesn't matter how, it's important it got you into sim in the first place. If anything GTS is a controller game to me (that's how I learned it) and AC is a wheel game, I keep them separated out of habit. Btw the better game in the AC series is the original one, not the Competizione. On the PC the modding community has done wonders for it, but even the vanilla experience and the official dlc is better than the ACC. There are simply more racing categories to enjoy, not only GT cars. Anyway, when you get a wheel and put in the effort, all else will seem bland afterwards, trust me. Also when I went karting with my friends irl for the first time, I was immediately decently quick so the skill transfer is real too :)

[@nightdriver7216]

@@zaq9339 It was designed with a controller in mind but the controller is still slower. And it is a sim. There's no "real" or "fake" sim, but more or less accuracy and depth. GT has less depth than ACC but it still is absolutely a sim. As is FM.

[@carjanyonutz]

Dude! I started SIM racing 3 days ago, after years of NFS and last 3 years of Forza Horizon, and you answered my questions so direct. I LOVE YOU, MAN! :X:X:X

[@renebuttler6720]

welcome to the party :) I switched many years ago from Need For Speed Underground to Simracing, still occasionally drop into NFS and Forza tho because why not...the love for cars is not wrong. You´re doing ACC only for now?

[@carjanyonutz]

@@renebuttler6720 Yes. i am in the 6th day of ACC, I participate on BMW Event on catalunya track and I am in the first 500 and ...dude... I am so proud of me cause there I saw there is thoushands of players. Now I have to increse my SA rating so I can play on more competitive servers.

[@scotthiland5521]

This was an awesome video! Great breakdown! "Assistive Systems" lol

[@fleshconfetti]

First time watching this channel and hearing Ermin blew my mind. 😄 (fellow audio engineer here)

[@BoomerStudiosRacing]

My issue with sim ABS is I still try to modulate the brake manually. Any tips on overcoming that habit? ❓❓❓

[@EikeSky]

Nothing will "fix" that other than changing your driving style. Bleeding off the brakes isn't a bad habit for the odd occasion that the ABS doesn't cover an imperfection in the track, try turning your ABS down and change the brake bias around to get the best out of your existing driving style while you try to adjust. ABS stops you locking. If your braking force is way out of whack, it won't make you stop any faster.

[@slowanddeliberate6893]

Just plant your foot on the brake pedal and don't lift.

[@EikeSky]

@@slowanddeliberate6893 in any car that doesn't have abs, and to be fair, even in cars that do, it's not the best idea to do that as it unbalances the car and can induce unwanted oversteer on turn in... If the car isn't set up for it anyway. If it is set up for it, you have the Riccardo problem in the McLaren atm where you have to scruff it otherwise it has no pace. Bleeding off the brake pedal, as well as some trail braking, can stop that balance shift from happening

[@andreaiachini7517]

@@EikeSky you are right. But in GT3 you have to plant your foot at the beginning of the brake. Then you trail brake into the corner, just in order to avoid oversteer as you said. If you just come into the corner with foot planted you will have a lot of problems and you will be a lot slower. As you said.

[@lukede6555]

Watching this just makes me happy there are a lot of other cars to drive in sims that aren’t assist dependent!

[@joshuanawrocki2994]

I learnt this half way thru racing GT3 on regular assetto corsa, just having the traction turned to 1 and abs on or off depending on track was enough to drop times considerably.

[@SpressoMan]

Outstanding! Great video.

[@shorty808100]

I find in games like PC2 the fastest setup is authentic assists, the only time I find no ABS faster is when the car originally didn’t come with ABS same with TC if the car didn’t originally have it and you add it the car is slower, every video you watch about how to get faster on a sim they all say No ABS, No TC I’ve done the same comparison in PC2 between assists and none full assists vs authentic, with full assists I’m about 1.5-2 secs slower than authentic assists

[@oj7177]

It also depends on how they're calibrated. In pc2 you can have from 0.01 to 0.99 of tc. The higher it is, the lesser it'll interfere, so someone may be driving with it too high or too low, affecting negatively lap times In some occasions, the tc can slow you down (in standing starts for example), or if there is a turn where the car goes faster when the rear rotates more (example, turn 4 at the nurb gp). Usually in slow corners you want the rear to step out a little bit (which can be pretty easily done by lowering the tc, so you make the car rotate with the throttle) Imo it's all down to how you adjust to the car, and how you set the car up. In the bmw 320 tc the brakes lock up very easily compared to the other tcs, so using the abs is helpful. But i'd prefer to drive without it because the car doesn't have it irl, and i'd lower the brake pressure to make them lock less I feel like (but i'm not sure) that in cars with mostly mechanical grip, you want the rear to slide a little bit in corners, while with aero cars you want the rear to stay as planted as possible, by making the car more understeery than oversteery

[@christiantaylor1495]

A simple look at leaderboards shows us what to do. It's weird how much a struggle it is to figure out what is fastest. In Rocket League, everybody can easily figure it out just by copying high ranked players settings. With racing games it seems to be enigmatic for some reason.

[@amildlydisappointingsalad6058]

@@christiantaylor1495 because rocket league don't include drivers preference, or unique driving styles that effect lap times. You're comparing a arcade game that is different gameplay to sim racing

[@OldManOnTrak]

For drivers like me (and perhaps you) this is very sensible advice. Check out some of James Baldwin's videos, though (e.g. Defending Against An F1 Esports Champion For An Entire Race ) - he drives the same car, both on ACC and IRL, and he deliberately switches between TC=1 and TC=0 during each lap. And he's (one of) the world's fastest gamers.

[@voodoo728]

swiching tc off in some corner exits is quite different than outright driving with TC off. Can be useful on optimal track, i sometimes do the same in quali sessions.

[@Ermz]

I'm aware. I was his teammate during the 10hrs of Silverstone and got to see it first hand.

[@Grumakhai]

And then check out David Perel (factory driver for Ferrari in GT cars for those who might not know) who says exactly the same as Ermin just said here, and in all of his ACC videos he runs his Ferrari with TC1=3, TC2=3 and ABS=4. James is the 0.01% in the sim world. His approach doesn't reflect what the vast majority of us drive like, even if his take seems to validate the "no assists" argument.

[@andreaiachini7517]

As I know, that is useful only in Quali and only the Mclaren benefits of that technique. James is one of the fastest in ACC (if not the fastest), but a lot of drivers almost match his times without doing that.

[@hernanialves6938]

In ACC, it only work for the 720s due to the lack of power compared to other cars, that is why James and other people disable the TC after a corner exit. They don't disable the TC for the entire lap.

[@Polarbayr308]

I think the main thing is, not turning them off but turning them down far enough that they do not impede the driving, would wonder what the view for IRacing would be instead of ACC

[@arnoudjanschut]

Played a lot of gran turismo 5 and 6, and I always put just a hint of abs and a little bit of tc on. Only on the ridiculous powerful cars a bit more tc. Last week played a bit F1 2021 (ps4 pro), nice game btw, also after some initial 'casual' driving turned off the braking assist and steering assist, but keeping the abs on low and the tc on low. It still can spin on you, but you can lean on it much more to get a good flow and consistent laptimes. Too bad it was not my ps4 and game, would love to play some more. Great video!

[@alexrexlopezsebastian936]

If you wanna go without assists you have to learn first how to go fast with turning your wheel as minimum as possible. Of course, clearing every turn as near as the apex as you can be. After it, fully disconnect assists, you will notice you gained a lot more of control and, +, no assists also helps you get different racing lines while getting faster and faster, and you can push the car to limits that you probably thought weren't even possible

[@Crash-Rest-Yummy]

The Stig shedded a tear🏁

[@Valkyrie427]

FINALLY someone said this. I'm so tired of "TCS 0" elitists in Gran Turismo. I only turn off assists in cars that never had them (IE: most cars built before the 90's) and keep them on for modern racers and sports cars. It honestly ruins the experience of most cars without some form of assist.

[@h2rv]

How about the f1 games? I thought it was proven that no assists is faster

[@minignoux4566]

Honestly Gran Turismo's assist system is far from the real life and really slowed me down in the old games. Can't really judge GT7 since i'm not really into it, i'll play more once they fix the issues.

[@ahkeem.9680]

This vid taught me a lot. Y'all are definitely getting a sub

[@Electricz0]

I recenly started practicing for a CR1 class championship in RaceRoom and have been playing around with TC settings for the first time. RaceRoom must have some good TC modeling too because I can absolutely notice a positive effect with TC on. Also, I think your summary at the end is spot-on.

[@DizzyFoShizzy]

Raceroom 💪

[@OfficialDJSoru]

Sadly most racing games, sim or simcade wise won't let you set the assists on a per-car basis. TC is pretty useful on cars with absurd downforce since it's almost certain it will kick in only when the car starts to understeer, making it a must for GT3, LeMans, supercar or hypercar classes if you're gonna go full throttle. But for anything else I only want ABS as my assist. My go to style of driving has been the slip angle ever since I realized how useful it was back in GT5. Maybe got used to it since when I was a kid, most of the racing games I cut my teeth in were rally games heavily encouraging powersliding corners so I was used to expecting a car to only properly turn when it's *slightly* sliding the rear. These days I dropped sim racing altogether due to the lack of steering wheel to properly enjoy AC, and stuck on simcade with Forza Horizon, where fortunately slip angle has actually allowed me to keep up with more powerful cars cause I wasn't braking as much. Meanwhile those who were faster were hitting walls in wipeouts and falling to the bottom (then again, that's the Forza Kiddie stereotype). Ironic how sim racing managed to make me conscious of racing lines, grip coeficients, weight transfer and inertia even in non-sim racing games, so my tactics carried over despite the sharp difference in physics and handling between games.

[@Call_MeJD]

That was a great demonstration. Just bought a G29 (I know it's a beginner wheel) I'm just falling in love with Gran Turismo 7 and the wheel is motivating me to pursue other racing sims. Any recommendations out there for those who prefer something other than GT7?

[@Irishmafia314]

I play F1 on my G29 all the time. The sensation of speed on that game is insane, and it arguably has the most in depth career mode of any racing game. Heard is was on sale for $15, so definitely worth picking up.

[@THIS---GUY]

ACC, Dirt Rally 2.0, f1, project cars 2 and maybe dirt 4 if on sale it's more arcade than 2.0. Avoid project cars 3 & dirt 5 as they took steps backwards imo

[@rcd17b26]

Assetto corsa competizione, it’s the most realistic sim on playstation atm and relatively cheap to get into. (unlike iracing and rf2 on pc) also dirt rally 2.0 and wrc 9/10 for rally, you cant go wrong with either

[@nachobroryan8824]

It's not really the wheel that's beginner, it's the pedals. Higher end pedals allow better braking. Otherwise in my experience there's not much difference.

[@patheddles4004]

I finally understand why I couldn't stay on the track in Assetto Corsa, apart from the fact that I'm a noob. Need to turn up the assists.

[@Typicalurban]

I have same problem

[@geralt4307]

Nice video,your speaking smooth and understandable.

[@n.monteiro-haig3538]

People complain about driving assists, when everything we use on a car is technically an assist. The steering wheel is a great example: even though you could have more "freedom" by being able to turn each front wheel independently, it will never be anywhere near as practical as having a good steering wheel to turn the front wheels in sync (only using Ackerman to stop one wheel from scrubbing due to a different turning circle radius for either the inside or outside wheels)

[@grooveseeker6269]

when they tell you to start sim racing with no assists is because you"ll learn throttle management and all that

[@GeekOfAllness]

Yeah, I feel like it's just better to get to where you can drive consistent lap times without the assists. If you can plant full throttle at the apex and have complete confidence, that's not even real driving anymore to me. Obviously, the more the computer drives the car for you, the faster you will tend to be (assuming a decent algorithm), but that's not really the point of playing a racing game. When I'm on a controller, I turn the assists on just because it's so much harder to be consistent and I'm lazy. But with a steering wheel and pedals, I'd rather just stop sucking. Of course, if you're in a racing league where everyone else is using assists and you want to actually win, you're pretty well forced to used them. Especially on twitchy, high-powered cars. But you'll still be so much better for getting good at driving without them.

[@aussieknuckles]

I've been turning TC and ABS among all other assists, off for many, many year's. Yes it's tough, but I like control of every aspect of the vehicle, even at a negative. PC2 was so hard with a controller, that on release it made me go out and buy a wheel and gear's. Barely use it now, but PC2 cars in VR on the wheel is still one of my favourite racing experiences. Nice video, well thought out.

[@ohmyjosh3065]

Its better to get a feel of the TC and ABS assist levels. I usually set mine just below the middle with the good old Supra. Give it a few laps and then adjust it according to the track I'm on (distance and complexity of turns). Adjusting it really helps with accelerating faster out of corners improving track times

[@ph4nt0k3n]

9:25 of course you're oversteering when you're slamming the throttle 80% out of a relatively tight corner. No tcs and abs requires a lot of sensitivity and can't compare your second ever lap with no assists to your hundredth lap with moderate assists

[@mattdsoares]

Isn't that part of the point? Slamming the throttle 80% and letting TC handle grip produces faster lap times than trying to more sensitively modulate the throttle without TC. If driving without TC and ABS in a GT3 car were faster, the elite racers driving GT3 professionally would turn them off and "git gud". The fact that they don't, and universally rely on ABS and TC tell you all you need to know.

[@marshad82]

@@mattdsoares Isn't professional racing about consistency not absolute speed? Perhaps question should be which option would racers choose for fun? Obviously there are some monsters nearly impossible to drive w/o some assists.

[@radioactivetrees9626]

@@mattdsoares GT3 is riddled with poor drivers. Hence the over emphasis on safety.

[@n.monteiro-haig3538]

I dare say, in AC, a car that comes with driving assists seriously feels like it was optimised to be used with assists. Afterall, a GT40 mk1 feels easier than a GT3 car, or even a Lotus Evora without assists.

[@yazzukimo1497]

I don't feel that way I love old cars so much that i never uses assist, not that i am better without it but that no assist give a different feeling, you need to imagine what your tires are doing all the time because you are not realy in the car and the steering wheel don't give that much info, under breaking your car sometimes go sideway but not like a drift more like it goes left and right( on hard breaking with some 70' endurence cars) and you need to control it and when you succeed it give off an immense amount of joy and pleasure. gt3 cars without tc and abs are boring they just are too predictable, and with it they become too boring ( in my way of seeing things ) the more uncontrolable the more fun when mastering it. a tu sum it up a gt3 car without abs just feel rough, a fucking gt40 without any assist is completely uncontrolable an bring to me an intense amount of fun. because the moment you understand how to use your brakes to take a turn faster it is truly fun ( to me ) and undoable with tc and abs. understanding how to use your pedal to get out of a turn without crossing the way of a poor wall that had asked nothing but peace, is what make me sim race.

[@stefanmaddock5516]

Thankyou. I've been really put off of ACC die to the 'obligation' of no assist.

[@1SIMONdeGEKKE1]

i feel confident again! I don't use TC but i need a little ABS sometimes

[@edreddog]

I believe you have to turn down the brake pressure when turning off abs and with tc off you can't be heavy foot on the gas

[@mcgetrekt2388]

It's actually the opposite. You want high brake pressure regardless.

[@valinhorn42]

The thing is, you're supposed to _practice_ without assists, not _race_ without them. Your lap times are going to suffer a lot more if you're used to them being on and get thrown into a car that doesn't have them; chances are you'll be fine if you're used to not having TC+ABS and get into a car that does have them.

[@lft4ded]

That segue worked. Subscribed!

[@Ermz]

woohoo

[@funnynightmare1815]

Merci pour toutes ses bonnes explication. Grace a toi maintenant je sais à quoi sert le "TC" 👍 😉

[@reilandeubank]

I feel like I’ve always known this but never been able to verbalize it. It makes sense that a real life car would be slower with TC and ABS on because those assistive systems don’t have very much information about peak traction so will not operate as close to the limit as possible. However in a game/sim, if you think about it, the assists theoretically have access to perfect information about how much grip is available, so it could keep the car at the very peak amount of acceleration/deceleration at any point in time

[@bakedandsteaked]

Theoretically. Although Kunos may have been aware of this and programmed the method of slip detection to be something more realistic, basically nerfing it to be more like it's real life counterpart. Interesting point, I wonder if Aris has mentioned anything about how the vehicles detect slip in his streams.

[@kurok1tenshi]

Love how many "real men" exist around the world that don´t use TC or ABS, wish they would go around the motorsports world and tell off the other fake men driving irl how big of a wuss they are if they have any one of them enabled...

[@GeekOfAllness]

The fact is that only bad drivers need assists to turn reasonably consistent lap times on any remotely decent car without assists, unless you're completely out of the car's element. Driving an MR vehicle in snow, dirt, gravel, etc. can be quite challenging without assists, where doing it with decent AWD is trivial. Not that it's stopped me from racing in the dirt with an MR2 without any assists, but when you start hitting like 90 mph in a gravel corner, the risk of flying off the road starts to rapidly outweigh the enjoyment of proper driving. There's also a big difference between my 150-250 HP cars and a 500+ HP race car. But I've run on bald tires in the rain, summer tires in the snow, and a bunch of unpaved roads in MR vehicles and it's just a matter of knowing that you're more inconsistent and accounting for it. As soon as you get to where the car drives itself, it gets boring. Also, bear in mind that real cars tend to still be difficult to drive, even with assists. So it can still be fun because the assists aren't driving for you so much as just taking the edge off. Until the last decade or so, assists weren't even all that good. 90's ABS would often do literally nothing unless you're on ice, and I've driven cars at least as new as 2008 that were the same way. I had an '03 MR2 where the ABS only worked if you were under 40 mph, or on really slick pavement (never tried it in snow or ice). It did nothing on dirt, and I deliberately threw it into a corner at 85 mph then stomped on the brakes and it just skid towards the guardrail until I manually hopped off the brakes. My '18 Focus has ABS that works decently in the snow with snow tires, but totally sucks with all-seasons in the snow (like, I'm literally sliding sideways into the ditch at 2 mph unless I manually modulate the brakes). I haven't hit the brakes that hard on dry pavement, so I'm not sure how the Focus works there. The TCS on the Focus works at 10+ mph, but refuses to work when stopped, so it's fine for racing but is useless when trying to drive up an icy hill from a standing start, which is where I actually care. Now, that's clearly not racing-grade ABS/TC, but a lot of us have to drive real cars in real conditions, and even on the racetrack can't afford million dollar cars. And once you get used to driving it the old-fashioned way, it's just cheating to turn on the assists.

[@deathtrooper2048]

Most big racing leagues IRL don't allow assists, it's just that GT3 is for pussies. GTE didn't allow them and were faster than GT3.

[@THEDENDIECASTRACING]

Thanks bro! makes so much sense!

[@OverTake_gg]

Glad it helped!

[@marcoqueiroz9824]

This video is the apex of entertainment. You got a like, a subscription and a fan.

[@OverTake_gg]

Thank you very much!

[@kelly2631]

(Copied from the depths of a comment thread:) If ABS is modelled as how it should be, then no, it should be physically impossible to beat ABS. Calm down, I'll explain: ABS, when working properly, should modulate the braking power such that each individual tire will be at its own limit of grip. The brake pedal with no ABS, however, applies a constant (roughly) braking force to all four wheels (You can modify the distribution a bit with brake bias, but ABS does it more accurately). I think that you can see where I'm going with this. Let's say that you're in a corner, and the maximum grip you can achieve on the front tires is 3 units, but the rears only 2 units. ABS will apply more braking to the front, resulting in a net 5 units of braking force. Your brake pedal, however, provides a (practically) constant braking force to all four wheels; let's assume that you've moved the brake bias forward a bit. At best, you might apply 2.5 units of braking force to the front wheels and 1.9 units of braking force to the rear wheels. You don't need a math degree to figure out where you might be losing time there. The difference gets even larger when you consider that all four wheels may be at varying levels of grip, and all it takes is a single tire locking for you to start backing off the brake pedal. Manual braking is limited by the maximum grip of the tire with the least grip, while ABS pushes all four tires to their limits.

[@kevinerbs2778]

There is no means for a single human appedage to vary four different areas at once. Unless the brake pedal was omni-direction on in puts at each corner of it. This won't work becuase your foot can only move in so many directions. The only solution to that problem would be something on the steering wheel or a yoke. To use your index finger for the front and your pinkys for the rear

[@kelly2631]

@@kevinerbs2778 Which kind of proves my point that ABS will always be more effective than a single brake pedal, regardless of driver skill. The limiting factor for ABS is subdivided among the 4 wheels, while the limiting factor for a brake pedal is whichever wheel has the least grip.

[@christopherortiz9330]

Everyone can race any way they want. Because at the end of the day, none of us are race car drivers. We're people playing games.

[@tehice23]

Its true, way better times in general and less stressful when playing, especialy with mates. But I personaly get more sadisfaction from driving the car on a limit, catching the car, powersliding, tailbraking, totaly personal preference :)

[@damyex3810]

Love the commentary

[@Andre-rt9qk]

Im starting to change the TC midrace (e.g. turn it up one step at eau rouge at spa). Is this a valid method or should the TC stay the same during a race?

[@DavidLedbetter12]

Turning up the TC as your tires go off is a solid strategy.

[@Andre-rt9qk]

@@DavidLedbetter12 Should it be consistent throughout the track apart from tire wear or is it ok to make adjustments for certain corners?

[@Ermz]

It's absolutely fine to modulate it for corners, if you find it helps, much as some people tweak the brake bias per corner.

[@Andre-rt9qk]

@@Ermz Thanks Ermin! I recently saw a youtube track guide by nico rosberg where he mentioned that he used to change brake bias too on certain corners - was wondering if it applies to TC (or ABS) too...also its fun to fiddle on these nice rotary switches from time to time during the races 🙂

[@McLlama-qt7nu]

@@Andre-rt9qk If you look at onboard footage of high class racing leages, you can see that they change a lot of stuff while driving (BB, Diff, Engine/ERS maps and TC/ABS too), so as long as it doesnt distract you from driving it is perfectly fine, if not even faster, to do that ;)

[@vsm1456]

if I was doing this comparison, I wouldn't accept these results. one or two laps is nothing, especially if you're obviously struggling. I keep running at least until my lap times are more or less settled

[@mattdsoares]

It wasn't a scientific study, it was a simply example. In a sim where assists are rather accurately modeled, it should be faster to use said assists, which is why in real life, GT3 drivers universally use TC and ABS.

[@vsm1456]

@@mattdsoares "real drivers use assists so it's fine if you use them too" - this is basically the end of the argument however, if you're trying to prove that: 1) too much assists is slower; 2) no assists is also slower - then you need to make this comparison properly. and like I said, 1-2 laps is not a proper comparison if you're struggling also, for example, in Driver61's guide on Nords, Adam Christo talked about how they drive and set up their car so that TC and ABS aren't triggered in normal circumstances. although it could be specific to the car, or to the team, or to the race. I think that's actually an interesting topic to research

[@meh-87]

Was recently doing laps in a 427 Cobra in AC. It's alot of fun to get control of a car that wants to crash with every input.

[@huppysimracing]

REVS. The first racing game I played, on my BBC Micro computer with 32kb of ram. Got me hooked on racing. Still going today!

[@eSKAone-]

Without assists it's like F1. Can be fun when everybody is using it in a race. You have to know your car even better 💟

[@delicrux]

... All this proves to me is using tc and abs allows racers to learn poor breaking and acceleration habits especially on cornering. Example late braking while turning into the apex, unless you are trying some kind of drift this is not advised. Easing onto the breaks and pumping them and or engine breaking on the down shift while on the straight outside and then letting off the breaks as you coast the gear into the apex and power out as you hit the apex.

[@lasagneman5586]

I mean, not really? GT3s for example use TC and ABS in real life, why would it be a bad habit to use them? And since ABS can only reduce pressure on one brake if needed, when trying to avoid a lock up on a single wheel, ABS allows the other brakes to work at full capacity while also stopping the locking wheel from actually locking up. Consistency is also pretty important especially in endurance racing. You don't wanna flat spot a tyre in the middle of your race.

[@lasagneman5586]

I mean, not really? GT3s for example use TC and ABS in real life, why would it be a bad habit to use them? And since ABS can only reduce pressure on one brake if needed, when trying to avoid a lock up on a single wheel, ABS allows the other brakes to work at full capacity while also stopping the locking wheel from actually locking up. Consistency is also pretty important especially in endurance racing. You don't wanna flat spot a tyre in the middle of your race.

[@delicrux]

@@lasagneman5586 im not sure what your point is, the GT3 is a road legal exotic sports car by law it has to have those systems from the factory so of course it does as any modern road legal car should. My point has nothing to do with if the system exist or not, i was talking about how they allow the development poor racing habits. And this video was a perfect example. The driver was depending so much on tc and abs that almost every turn had late braking and a bad driveline so im not surprised he spun out. Most of the oversteer is due to the angle of attack into the apex being way to sharp and the inability to feel the road in a sim. I bet if he fixed these issues his races and lap times would improve drastically when he turns tc and abs back on. The problem with turning them off when you are not use to it is you have to relearn how the car behaves on the track you can see the improvements in the second lap without tc/abs he was 1 second behind his normal track time with poor braking, drive lines, and throttle control. This is extremely noticeable om the first turn of the first abs test. He attacks a hairpin at full speed in the center of the road and expects to hit the apex but misses and has to stay off the gas longer When you typically see races you will the cars hit the outside line while braking and engine braking before turning into the apex this is of course by the book. But if you are half a second late on your brakes you risk overshooting the apex with understeer then your options to correct this are having to stay off the gas longer past the apex and in extreme cases break midturn turn to correct the understeer, drift, or go off roading... Also he should have demonstrated this on some less powerful cars for comparison then moved up in power. It is way easier to screw up a turn in a 1000hp monster vs a typical 300 - 400hp car.

[@nickjonathan4043]

Holy bass dude! I was about to watch this video but the EQ on your voice makes my whole desk shake.

[@sahelanthropus4422]

Man, listening to you talk feels like listening to professional sport commentary.

[@andreaiachini7517]

Ermin sets a "reasonable lap time of 1:21,945". Me : I will never match that "reasonable lap time".

[@OverTake_gg]

That's years of practice! 😄

[@andreaiachini7517]

@@OverTake_gg I am not too far to that time to be honest LOL But it is not simply "reasonable", that's what I meant!

[@filetminyion5302]

What are your thoughts on what David Perel mentioned regarding ABS in sims? Apparently IRL in GT3 cars he said you just hit the brake as hard as physically possible and you let the ABS do it’s magic. In iRacing if ABS kicks in it is extremely invasive and it makes your braking distance much longer. In ACC on the other hand running high ABS does not have much of an effect on braking distances. I wonder if iRacing will do a physics update that will change braking and ABS to be more realistic.

[@Ermz]

I've heard the same thing from other RL GT3 drivers. It appears that iRacing doesn't model these systems accurately to life as, like you said, you really have to ride the brake at the threshold to really get the most out of the stopping distances.

[@user-vj7ds9dm3w]

This is so true. I test all cars I plan on using without TC and pit them against rival cars to find which one handles better at the limit w/o any help from TC and ABS. Some cars are far more balanced than others and need little help from TC. A good example of this the Porsche 911 GT3 compared to the C8 ZO6. The ZO6 is next to impossible to drive at the limit, liftoff oversteer to the max and then when you apply power it under steers. As where if you apply the right finesse with the 911 you can actually lay down times slightly better than the TC.

[@hollowdog9049]

Best ever - total noob sim racer. Auto Cross star in the 80's (have many wins) life stopped that. Now have a rig with a DD and was struggling. Using your set up ideas I'm drifting mid engine cars around like like a speed skater. Feels like Heaven.

[@pxxxr9030]

For me it's not even about lap times. I like having the assists off because it allows the personality of each car to come out. They all have different quirks that you have to deal with and I like that. I feel more in-tune with the car.

[@gomezthechimp1116]

Technically, ABS won`t stop your granny piling into the back of a truck, as it increases braking distance slightly (look up cadence braking). It will stop her losing control when braking on on icy, wet, oily or gravel surfaces. It would be great to have FFB which reproduced that stuttery on-off braking through the wheel.

[@GeekOfAllness]

It does generally decrease braking distances slightly compared to just locking up the wheels, which is the comparison people are going for. And it allows you to turn with the pedal on the floor (ABS = Ability to Brake and Steer). It's still better to just learn how to control the car, but ABS that works is better than a noob panicking on a non-ABS car. Of course, until the last decade or so, ABS was extremely sketchy, so all of the above is largely hypothetical, but it seems modern ABS has finally gotten pretty close to the advertisements even in low-end vehicles.

[@derblaue]

In almost any case ABS will be better on the road because since ABS can't get suprised like a human.

[@GrillerRohde]

That’s the point, slowing down while being able to steer.

[@onesix944]

@@GeekOfAllness better in the moment, yes, but if the driver slams the brakes and they arent punished for doing so it just installs bad habits. Yes, ABS is good for noobs, but IMO noobs shouldnt be driving, they are the cause of incidents on the roads. Instead we should be training drivers to take it more seriously, people are too lax when driving and it shows when you're in traffic (People not reacting to cars around them, on their phones, dancing to music... YOURE DRIVING A VEHICLE THAT CAN KILL! FOCUS!)

[@Wonginism]

Threshold>ABS>cadence

[@kussd18]

Old video but oh so true. Not just for certain cars but on GT sport I could barely do anything without abs at least, idk if it's detecting higher pressure on the brakes than what I'm applying. But pretty much every time I'd hit the brakes I'd instantly lock all tires.

[@zazadj1]

great video, what I don't understand is how do they ride in the rain with low tc and map 1, either they are phenomena or there is some trick.

[@Rose_Butterfly98]

I'd say definitely leave abs on always. Like sure you can definitely learn to brake properly and never lock up and you'd get really good laptimes, but racing can get unpredictable and you don't want to end up crashing because someone did something weird and caused you do lock your brakes up. TC kinda depends, I'd prefer to have some, but if you have really good throttle control, you could do without it. If the car has torque vectoring, leave some of the TC on, if simulated correctly, torque vectoring and TC will work together.

[@jacks9374]

The people who say to race/practice without ABS and TC are correct in some way, if you drive without any in car assists you Learn how to control the car, and in return you will be faster with the assistive system, and you will also be able to use less TC and ABS than you normally use.

[@psyaviah]

you have no idea how sophisticated the ABS & TC systems are for race cars, these are not the ABS systems like on a road car. ABS is a specific tool used and engineered/programmed heavily to make professional racing drivers go faster. So learn it with it on, because learning to use ABS to the limit is the way to go - in race cars that support those systems of course. Like the GT3 series.

[@jojoboynat]

Great video my man thank you! BTW, what is the game at 1:47? Splendid!

[@phatt180]

Excellent video, instant sub 👍

[@OverTake_gg]

Awesome, thank you!

[@suxix7312]

You're on the power way too early. And the McLaren is a hard one to control. It doesn't like coming out of the slow corners. Longer wheel base ya know.

[@tiramija3894]

1:58 When your grandmothers name is lewis hamilton

[@dct124]

You're very smooth with your steering, I wonder if Rob's technique translates to sim racing games.

[@Sweaty__Sheep]

This was really well written