What Smart Cities REALLY Want…

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Saudi Arabia's NEOM smart city project has gotten a lot of attention lately, but Japan has a handful of smart cities in development that are every bit as innovative and weird and... maybe problematic? Especially a project called The Woven City by Toyota. Let's take a look at them.
Here's Knowing Better's video on Company Towns, it's worth a watch:
• Un-American and yet, t...
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LINKS LINKS LINKS
www.neom.com/en-us
www.who.int/news-room/fact-sh...
www.nature.com/articles/d4158...
inrix.com/scorecard/
www.theguardian.com/environme...
www.cdc.gov/climateandhealth/...
thediplomat.com/2019/11/how-d...
tokyoesque.com/smart-cities-i...
global.nissannews.com/en/rele...
openinnovation.epson.com/en/a...
business.inquirer.net/378061/...
global.toyota/en/company/mess...
waymo.com/
ltad.com/about/waymo-zones.html
www.woven-city.global/downloa...
www.woven-planet.global/en/ne...
www.woven-city.global/services/
pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-r...
www.google.com/search?client=...
www.ohchr.org/sites/default/f...
www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
www.redseaglobal.com/en/our-p...
www.iotworldtoday.com/smart-c...
www.curiositylabptc.com/
e360.yale.edu/features/why-th...
www.technologyreview.com/2022...
www.surfacemag.com/articles/t...
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
3:36 - SSTs
4:36 - Akio Toyoda
5:43 - Woven City
6:49 - Hydrogen Fuel Cells
7:27 - Health Monitoring
10:00 - Progress and Funding
13:20 - Sponsor - Brilliant

[@lunarpathwaygames8671]

"16 tons, and whaddya get? Another day older and a-deeper in debt." Company towns absolutely need a constant and continuous jaundiced eye on them, because when left to their own devices and governance, Tennessee Ernie Ford's song about the debt-slavery comes true.

[@BrianSFulghum]

I was thinking about the exact same song. It's a good comparison to make. The control that the old mining companies had over their employees was extreme, giving rise to a need for labor unions that advocated on behalf of the little guy. I expect these cities will have similar challenges. As to that historical discriminatory practices like red-lining, residents of these cities are going to need advocates!

[@paulie9483]

Mr Ford popped into my head too, these 'smart cities' sound horrifying.

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

Sold my soul to the company store!

[@AJWEXIST]

“I was born one day when the sun didn’t shine. I picked up my shovel and I went to the mine…” now they’ll be born right next to the mine so they won’t even have to travel far. ^sarcasm obviously, but dude they’re making ant farms but for people

[@JonathanCrider]

That was literally what I ventured down into the comments to say. Great minds think alike? "Saint Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store"

[@CRASS2047]

My Grandfather and my uncles were coal miners in Harlan, KY back in the 40’s and 50’s. They lived in company housing, which were shacks in a company slum basically. Also, the company required everyone to spend their money at the company store. Crazy

[@lulumoon6942]

Same here in WV. Family hasn't forgotten...

[@VulcanLogic]

@@lulumoon6942 apparently they have, given who the coal companies support in elections and who gets elected.

[@theproceedings4050]

​@@VulcanLogic There isn't any other industry, you're asking them to choose between a hard life and starvation. Who would vote for starvation?

[@inyobill]

Costs were a bit more than they could afford on their pay, and were required to stay with the company at the slave wages until their debts were "paid off".

[@librakels3844]

WV here, the same thing happened to family of mine as well.

[@dylanross9931]

One of the biggest problems I always fined with these cities is they don’t take into consideration human psychology. We need randomness and variation in are living conditions. This is one reason people that live in the countryside tend to be happier, the green of nature and clean air are what we are built for.

[@eekee6034]

Architects have had plenty of reasons to learn that lesson going all the way back to the 30s. I think it can be done right and some architects do, but maybe not all of them and there seems to be a problem with the companies which hire architects overruling them. There's a new estate in my town in which the odd corner where the architects were given free reign is lovely, but the rest of it is pretty soulless.

[@sideshowratt]

THANK YOU. People give me grief when I complain about the trend of wiping out entire city blocks to build these massive Soviet-esque condo blocks, but psychological factors actually do matter. Humans as a species wouldn't have created the arts in the first place if we didn't need design and aesthetics in order to function.

[@mikeguilmette776]

@@sideshowratt Check out the "Dormzilla" at UC Santa Barbara - and 11-story building with no windows housing 5,000 students. The plan finally got shot down a couple weeks ago, but that fits right in with what you described.

[@rustomkanishka]

Soviet style Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V housing and business districts suck like the vacuum of space, but for a lot of companies, they're brilliant. They cost less and the workers know their place. They're not going away anytime soon.

[@jonslg240]

For the younger people, look up: Company Store Was a huge part of basically turning employees into indentured servants, most especially in mining towns and manufacturing towns

[@Arkantos117]

Having my health and diet tracked by my corporate overlords sounds like dystopia to me.

[@musicdev]

To be fair, this is already the direction we’re headed in anyway. Not that it’s appealing to me, but people have already accepted the idea that their health be tracked by their favorite corporate overlords

[@Lilladdish]

@@musicdev we are expecting it however in no way accepting a 1984 reality

[@musicdev]

@@Lilladdish I’m not accepting it either but it’s not like we get a choice…

[@grandenauto3214]

We do it for seniors already and it improves their health significantly. Nutrition is something that Americans have no clue about.

[@fg009letyrds8]

Majority already do that with Health Smart watches, Smart Phones, Social Media, Hospitals (which are corporate owned most of the time) and Insurance companies (also corporations) So no, this is literally nothing. You're just a Frog who was late to wake up from the boiling water.

[@RisingRevengeance]

I can't say I'm excited for a future where a single company owns your town. You could argue that it's already the case with some giant companies but it's generally not this wild yet.

[@justinaclayburn2248]

I’m still early on but I keep thinking: haven’t we done company towns before? I think Joe’s done videos on failed company towns in fact.

[@kristinehansen.]

There are Company town in existence

[@millerrepin4452]

Someone forgot about Allentown. Entire towns centered around a coal mine. Imagine not only working in a mine but paying for equipment all grocery stores are owned by the same coal company. They don't exist since these towns will be abandoned if coal mine runs out. (And anti monopoly laws)

[@MegCazalet]

@@justinaclayburn2248Company Towns are mentioned very briefly in the video.

[@northeastslingshot1664]

🤣 you own nothing.....

[@seeksustainablejapan]

I actually applied for a job with woven city & was really excited to help choose the first 300 members of a diverse, sustainable community but with every interview I got the feeling it was going to be less of a functional community of the future & more a test center for Toyota tech. The people I talked with were really nice, but everyone & all decision making was based on what would work best for efficiency not the balanced & flexible needs of a diverse sustainable community.😅

[@twrecks6279]

Oooh buzzwords

[@karlaskitties]

You couldn’t pay me enough to be part of that

[@theraven6836]

Fun fact, EPCOT was originally conceived as a high tech city. The name is actually an acronym for Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow.

[@theobserver9131]

I went there in the late 80's. I was really disappointed. It's pretty much a very expensive day of standing in lines for your turn to experience immersive advertisements.

[@stutzstudiowerks]

I've been to EPCOT. It was dated 30 years ago. They tried though.

[@Globovoyeur]

Another Disney effort, Celebration, Florida, is not futuristic but AIUI very paternalistic. Although they might have gotten better; I haven't heard much about it lately.

[@theraven6836]

The original EPCOT plan dated from the 50s. By the time it was constructed, the original plan had long since been abandoned and only the name remained. Where once it had been planned as a residential community, it now became another theme park. It was sorta resurrected w Celebration, but as said above that community is not futuristic at all but tries to recapture the feeling of the late 19th century.

[@LG123ABC]

@@stutzstudiowerks No, they didn't. The plan was drastically scaled back after the death of Walt Disney.

[@WilliamHaisch]

The “woven city” is kind of like how I made my cities in Sim City 2000 over 25 years ago: park in the middle, living space around the park, and a box road around the outside.

[@lillyanneserrelio2187]

Me too! Memories 😍

[@pakde8002]

You and everyone else 😂

[@chriskelly6574]

And I ruled them with the taxes Hahahaaa!

[@TheRealEncy]

Lmao This Is So Relatable.

[@jamesfowley4114]

Kind of like 15 minute cities? If done well they could be very benificial.

[@LG123ABC]

The "woven city" concept reminds me of the original plans Walt Disney had for Epcot. It was originally supposed to be a "city of the future" but ended up being scaled way back after Walt's death. There are some pretty interesting videos about it here on KZbin.

[@timehaley]

Well Joe, I'll make the journey with you as long as I'm still around. I just turned 64 last month, and I retire the 1st of May, so I'll have a lot of time on my hands. I've been subscribed to your channel pretty much from the beginning and I've watched you grow and improve. I'm looking forward to my retirement, my daughters all grown up and working on her PhD in Chemistry, I'm so proud of her, and now it's time to help my wife in the garden. I worked hard all my life, have no debt, and everything is paid for, so please you people out there, don't blow it up.

[@jasondrummond9451]

As a 'senior'- my reaction to the idea of 'the company' stocking my fridge and supervising my food intake - it total and complete horror. No Effing Way! If I want pizza and beer for supper, that is MY business and I don't want some algorithm blocking my order, or my purchase. The whole scenario is the stuff of nightmares and has the potential for at least a dozen good scifi movies.

[@brindlekintales]

> has the potential for at least a dozen good scifi movies. All of which have already been produced and distributed to the masses.

[@jasondrummond9451]

@@brindlekintales Not the ones I'm writing in my head ...

[@brindlekintales]

@@jasondrummond9451 Well get crackin'...you already have a great name for an author!, though sounds more like a mystery writer than one who does sci-fi! I'll buy your first novella.

[@D_Rogers]

Don't worry, 'the company' will still sell you any toxic addictive sludge they can get away with... :) They want your money, not your longevity, the default vege meal is just for the PR veneer

[@ayylmao8562]

You need to live until a hundred gramps stop eating that pizza

[@nrg3k]

The Toronto-Google project was really impressive when it first came out. After the real work had started, it was clear that Google was completely out of touch with the reality on the ground, and how it would impact local residents.Kudos for saying Toronto correctly :D

[@OK-pi6fq]

I bought a home in a border area. I know I’ll be kicked out at some point. The rich always take over. I’ll hold on to it as long as I can, but I’ll sell for a big profit, and buy a bigger house on a boarding neighborhood with a longer commute.

[@joescott]

I believe I have Mike Myers to thank for my pronunciation. 😄

[@eekee6034]

Google? Out of touch with reality? Nnnnohh! XD I've seen Google's antics for basically their whole existance, I've known people who had job interviews with Google, been offered job interviews by them... I'm not going anywhere near that feudal lunocracy. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but they really do expect you to be grateful for the privilege of working for _the magnificence_ that is Google. This is exactly the attitude of medieval European nobility at their worst.

[@ThalassTKynn]

I've read scifi where a space station is run by a goant AI who takes care of everyone and assigns work for residents, and knows everything that goes on within its walls... And while it's creepy AF, it's also like having a caring parent looking out for you. Of course if you go too far off the rails you get "reeducation" so yeah. Totally dystopian.

[@emu071981]

"Reeducation" is always touted as a bad thing but honestly, I have met quite a few people* who could use "reeducation" to redirect their life path. To make it less dystopian sounding we could rename it as intervention and it would be best to do it when they are still a child and are not as set in their ways. *For example, there is a kid that roams around here who is heading fast down a path of crime and constant jail time if nobody steps in. He is already threatening women for money. Intervention not only would help him out but also prevent the younger kids that he has following him around from following him down the same path.

[@user-ii9vn6vo6k]

@@emu071981 Would this "intervention" be forced? Who would carry it out? What 3rd party would check them to make sure they aren't doing anything unethical? Good intent but I can only see this going as well as the war on drugs.

[@emu071981]

@@user-ii9vn6vo6k They have something like this here in Australia. The "interventions" are entirely voluntary and are done as a alternative to putting the kids into foster care (preferably with people related to the parents). During interventions you usually have a social worker under the Families and Community Services (FACS) umbrella (state government department) and you basically go through a "what are the problems involved and what can we do to help" induction and then it goes from there (e.g. connecting to community services, educational programs like parenting classes and sometimes even forced budgeting in the cases of ex-drug addicts). If things improve then it is a win for the program but if things do not then the kids usually get put into foster care. The only real problem with it is that the department is entirely underfunded and often relies on community/school reporting and police reports to find families in need and by the time the police are involved it requires far more intervention than what would have been needed if intervention was done earlier. Ethicality is kept in check by a ombudsman (independent from the government) and if that isn't enough then the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) can get involved. The whole aim of the program is to break the generational cycle of abuse and the often inevitable drug abuse and crime that is so prevalent in society today while keeping families together. Foster care even with relatives can be really detrimental to the mental health of the kids involved.

[@user-ii9vn6vo6k]

@@emu071981nice, sounds like a good service. I'm just skeptical bc in America we have Child Protective Services and they didn't do shit for me when I was a kid, my mother was observably mentally unstable and unfit to raise a kid. But hey, she only got 2/3 strikes with CPS so whatever lol.

[@eekee6034]

I had an intervention when I was a kid. My dad was prostituting me for drugs, my mother was so messed up she didn't even know how tightly to hold my hand, (that's a parallel for *everything* she did,) I was forced into the company of little girls who screamed that I was making eyes at them when I was talking in a dead monotone and being extremely careful not to look at them at all -- have you ANY idea how hard that is for an 8 year old? I was the one that got the intervention. Human beings are just terrible at justice. I still upvoted most of the replies in the thread because I guess I'm bad at justice too.

[@aretoo-2]

I loved the quick blip from "Soylent Green"...one of my favorite creeps from the early 70's. But what really grabbed me was your reference to 'corporate-run cities' - anyone remember the original "Rollerball"? I'm just sayin'...

[@MichaelSHartman]

The absurdity, and failure rate of the hyper wealthy oil industry nations mega structures is high. Don't read too much into their projects.

[@JasonSmith-jv7wl]

Plenty of engineering channels point out how absurdly stupid they are too. They literally make no sense.

[@Meatball2022]

Agreed but given they’re willing to spend absurd amounts of money pursuing them tells me they know oil limits their future.

[@ecbrown6151]

The water and energy consumption of a vast living space in the desert is nonsensical but we still do it, just not at this scale. Good luck!

[@Meatball2022]

@@ecbrown6151 agreed. But - with that said, it’s certainly easier and cheaper to pipe all that into basically one place, instead of routing it over hundreds of square miles in every direction.

[@jichaelmorgan3796]

The Line is worth studying closely for future space projects. Hope it doesn't fail too soon.

[@stevejohnson3357]

When people started building permanent settlements they tried to include all the things we like in concentrated form. Caves, cliff faces, little clumps of forest and an appearance of randomness like you find in nature. They do this by letting people do what they want with their little urban lots. There will different styles of architecture and a few streets that break the grid pattern. Planners hate this. They want sculpture but you can't live in sculpture and after a while, it gets old.

[@rfichokeofdestiny]

“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.” - F.A. Hayek

[@jelly.212]

Wrong

[@eekee6034]

It's true that sculpture gets old, but planners jobs are to make cities which actually function. You can't do that without overruling the desires of people who want a beautiful mess.

[@rfichokeofdestiny]

@@eekee6034 The words of an authoritarian tyrant.

[@eekee6034]

@@rfichokeofdestiny Would you really want to live in a city where you have to hire your own guards because the police can't reach your street for traffic, or perhaps can't even figure out where it is in the first place? And how about getting to hospital? What would it cost the city if all the ambulances were helicopters? If I remember right, helocopters need about 10 times more fuel than similarly-sized airplanes, never mind vans. And could air ambulances even land near your house? What if you and your neighbors, exercising your freedom, all decided you wanted to live in a lovely dense forest? Or what if they can't land because you couldn't resist adding just 1 more car to your your car collection, several times. The possibilities for foul-ups are endless! And you can't expect to have running water or other natural monopolies in a city where the supply companies could never predict its usage.

[@TwoBs]

How have I only just recently found this channel? Binging everything. So many fascinating topics.

[@user-cv2df5cr8i]

Thank you for picking up the thread[/t]s of „smart cities“. It is always amazing how easy you bring complex concepts into words and visuals. Nice! ❤

[@EnnuinerDog]

I spent some time in Korea's smart city, Songdo, and I wouldn't want to live there. It was designed in the 2000's and early 2010's so the urbanism/walkability trend hadn't kicked off at the time. Songdo is actually incredibly car centric, much more so than I was expecting, and seems to be modelled on a North American suburb as those don't really exist in Korea. The planned nature of the city made it felt inorganic in how it forces you into a specific lifestyle which may or may not match your own (it seems to consist of driving everywhere and shopping for luxury goods at pricey stores and outlets with your nuclear family). I'd much rather live in an old neighbourhood in Seoul than Songdo. The old neighbourhoods are much more walkable, diverse and have so much more character and life in them. I wonder if other top-down approaches will be inorganic, forced and feel dated in ten years in the same way as Songdo. I'm not against planned cities either, there's been a lot of successful ones throughout history, I just wouldn't trust private companies with it.

[@lothre]

If and when the day comes, that cars are no longer front and center to our daily lives, you will find it is the old towns and cities that were created before the automobile, that become the places that people will want to live in. Not the ones that were designed with cars in mind. These Future cities will become like 'Modern Art'; outdated

[@WubiWatkins]

Jacques Fresca is your friend, Venus city, 50s

[@WubiWatkins]

Joe within 15 to 20 years there's going to be a micro Nova on this planet and then not long after that it's time for that 12000 year twist on the projects won't ever get started if they don't do it now. The planet is going to flip the best place to be in the United States is right along the Colorado Rockies And Wyoming Rockies. Suspicious Observers , KZbin. Even Nasa knows this.

[@Lilladdish]

Sounds like you would be ok if it were the government instead of a company?

[@Vaeldarg]

@@Lilladdish You might be unaware....but yes that is the dominant owner of, yknow, the land within a country. Unelected company board members don't tend to care about the "public good" if there isn't money in it for them. As for future cities, imo seems like the wrong way to think about it with emerging work-from-home/decentralization trends. Better for people to just be able to work anywhere while living anywhere. Able to spread out the population so density becomes less of an issue.

[@BrianAlt]

While future cities might take advantage of these ideas, I think most, if not all, of these projects will fail for now.

[@Vernardo]

Have to wait till the next pandemics.

[@Mode-Selektor]

Or they will work for only a tiny portion of people.

[@BrianAlt]

@@Mode-Selektor wouldn't be surprising. If it's too small, it fails.

[@AlistairBalister]

Neom seems like someone with a lot of money but no technical sense and no engineering background came up with and has a bunch of yes men around him looking to get their hands on that money.

[@lexistential]

​@@AlistairBalister pretty easy to be a yes man when your boss has a history of executing people that disagree

[@infinitestare]

If you make the whole city sort of like a hollow drum where underneath there are layers and layers of open air, it might have some unexpected negative effect on human well-being. I think it's important to live directly on the ground or else everyone will feel like they're on a spaceship and will start trying to get outside just to step on some real soil that's connected to the Earth.

[@eekee6034]

You have a really interesting username for such a comment. The "Borg" of Star Trek could hardly be further from natural. :) But on topic, I don't think living on top of a platform is bad for people so long as the platform is secure. If the very thing they're walking on gives way, that's an effective way to give many people PTSD. As for nature... for years, I was heartened and refreshed with digital representations of nature in a virtual world, though it couldn't provide the physical activity my body needed and... the ambience wasn't quite all right. The ambience of the natural world can be very soothing. Another thing in nature's favour is that outdoor air tends to be less polluted than indoor air. Also, I have some reason to believe you pick up good microbes from being out in nature, especially if you're up close with the trees. Yeah, we're meant to be in nature, though I don't think there's anything too mysterious about it any more. I believe in a loving Creator who designed us to work with the ecosystems He created on the Earth. :)

[@infinitestare]

@@eekee6034 I was just speculating but it feels very weird to live on a hollow drum-like thing even if it feels solid. The soil absorbs all the vibrations and this giant membrane thing will be resonating like crazy all the time, even if seemingly unnoticeably, and vibrations are important for living organisms, especially water-based. That alone will have some unpredictable consequences in the long term. Remember those experiments of the effect of music and other vibrational patterns on plants and the structure of ice? Also, I've never watched the original Star Trek and I have no idea what 'The Borg" is, I just sort of picked that word for no reason. Twice! I don't even know where I heard it :3

[@eekee6034]

@@infinitestare I forgot about the effect of vibrations on plants. Engineers these days are very good at damping unwanted vibrations, but would they really do it right in this case? I don't know. :) Borg is... well, for one thing, it's a perfectly ordinary Swedish name, but the Star Trek version is shortened from "cyborg". "The Borg" are very inorganic and creepy villains; a cyborg hive mind. Nothing looks natural in their ships. I hate them! XD

[@teresaellis7062]

I hope we can make Smart Cities that aren't creepy and Big Brother-like. Improving land use and making aging in place are good things. As you say, time will tell how this all works out.

[@drek9k2]

You would have better luck trying to form an association of communes, and making some kind of confederation of those communities interested in pouring their assets into one combined effort. I think it'd end up looking similar to some micronation ideas honestly. The problem all comes down to the decadent degenerative morals (or rather amorals) of a society built entirely around greedy money worship and narcissistic self centeredness, so I feel like making this work in America would be a lot harder despite the amount of land and theoretical ability to buy land in some corn or tundra state to develop it. They'd have to disconnect themselves from the American society and American morals first. I'd think a shariah society could potentially pull this off too, but that would have to be disconnected from all the wealthy royal families. Which is problem of areas like Dubai UAE Kuwait etc. Also land use always is going to be a problem in dense urban zone anyway, although definitely freeing up more natural space and agriculture sectors within the city limits would eliminate or dampen a variety of other problems, from heat island effect to high stress social psychology and conflict to having too many chokepoints in siege warfare and disasters. But this would take reforming a number of current assumptions and problems certain societies have, like car cultures. Car culture is unbelievably stupid from an urban planning perspective. There is no parking. Even the parking alone makes it stupid. Which makes so much huger amount of arable land or living space converted into these heat islands. European cities did this much better for example, though LA is probably among the most made stupidly. Why did San Francisco abandon its trolley cars? So there would need to be some rail/metro system with buses and aerial drone delivery helping to free up the logistics, it would improve costs too if you didn't have to import everything and healthier having communal gardens throughout the city districts. Really though, any city that's having an excessive amount of electronics in a Capitalist society makes me immediately suspicious, and why I won't have anything to do with things called "smart" thing. Idea of not being able to find one working car after a solar flare/CME or EMP burst because every stupid thing is loaded with microchipped spyware is infuriating.

[@teresaellis7062]

@@drek9k2 I think the thing I like about the Smart Cities as described is it gets rid of the need for a car in the city. Everything is within walking distance or can be retrieved using automated cargo transport. I could go shopping and instead of loading up my car with heavy groceries or bulky items that would be difficult to carry in my arms for a distance, I could get an electric cargo transport it while I walk home. I know there is an idea out there to turn neighborhoods into mini villages so neighborhoods could be more self-sufficient with daily things and cut down on the need to drive so much. Europe started that way. Villages that turned into cities by combining villages. London is made up of previous villages. I guess these Smart Cities are taking the idea of neighborhood villages and turning a whole city into something similar. I don't think communes would be the way to go. That is a different mindset than making a city more efficient space-wise. I do love the idea of communal gardens through out the city districts. Also space for people to have private gardens, so they can use them for hobbies, like specialty flowers or unusual vegetables that need a bit more care. Sadly, the computer or other electronic device you are watching KZbin on will also be affected by a solar flare/CME or EMP burst. I agree with you with "smart" items. They are a bit creepy. The only "smart" device I have is a "smart" phone, only because of apps like GPS, audiobooks and communicating with friends and family only work or work better with a smart phone. I was a very late adopter to a smart phone. Oh, and the big one: aging in place. Making it possible for people who are disabled from age or other reasons to be more self sufficient through technology.

[@NickRoman]

@@drek9k2 , yeah so just don't try to have a company do this for its employees. Just saying "its employees" as though the people are owned says it all. They more the people running things are responsible for, the more they feel entitled to dictate other people's lives. It already happens with corporations and the slope is sooo slippery. It is so easy to justify restricting people in a corporate environment.

[@weedfreer]

The town I live in here in the UK and (along with a few more dotted around) it was one of the first towns, predominantly, built by the owner of the mill to house the workers of the mill. What's more, they also used to issue their own money, so, you could only use it in the town itself to buy the products made available by 'friends' of the mill owner. They were, indeed, somewhat insidious to say the least. The town Im in was doing this from all the way back to the late 1600's too. It also has a poor house down the bottom end of the town, which was basically enforced labour, with 'food' and board with families separated by male and female members. So, if you were lucky, you worked at one end of the town in the mill, but, if you were not, it'ld be the poor house for you!

[@grannyweatherwax9666]

You forgot the worst bit about poor houses, they separated the children from their parents too. My grandparents were all farm labourers, and they had tokens for the local shop for their food and lived in houses owned by the farmers. Crazy we are heading back there.

[@weedfreer]

@@grannyweatherwax9666 yes, it could be...if the typical 'race to the bottom ' or 'boss is my master and commander the beat of whom we all jump to' approach to it is allowed to prevail.

[@PabloSanchez-qu6ib]

And even that was better than the tropical plantations that had all that except the poor house and added guards with rifles.

[@weedfreer]

@@PabloSanchez-qu6ib yes, two things, equally true, placed next to one another. Well done you. Although, to be fair, when they were using the children as literal slave labour to dart between cotton mill machines in the brief moments they were spread apart to collect lint with a guy standing watch with a machete on hand in case they got trapped in the machinery...their only hope being the knife guy could cut them free should they get 'tangled' up in the machine (amputate the limb caught up in the workings) and beatings issued when the children became tiered after 12 hours of a 16hr+ shift with no time afforded for breaks...you could argue it's not as open and shut as you're trying to make out.

[@grannyweatherwax9666]

@@weedfreer I'm always too afraid to express my feelings about this comparison. The fact is they were all humans at the mercy of the rich.

[@Luziferne]

"…company towns don't exactly have the best history…" Thats THE most effing UNDERSTATEMENT if I ever heard any Joe, now you just have to make a full segment about the company towns, company stores and why these would be prime examples for dystopian late stage capitalism if they would return *Edit:* and I take my foot and stuff it to where i speak from, because I should watch the whole Video before posting… *Edit2:* and still I think Joe should make a full segment, no a full series on the horrors of company towns and company stores

[@ianking7511]

The interesting difference between the old company towns and these new smart cities is that the old company town existed to maintain a monopoly on labour. These new cities are not deriving labour from their residents, so I think we need to ask what of value are they getting. I suspect the answer lies in the vague direction of data harvesting.

[@Luziferne]

@@ianking7511 Data Harvesting… As in another form of labour, derived from those that produce it, without providing compensation for said labour? Or in short, if something is free, YOU are the product that is being sold... still sounds like a company town to me...

[@Luziferne]

@@filip9564 Ooh you sweet innocent summer child… The accumulation of wealth by any means, moral or amoral, legal or illegal, is EXACTLY the very nature of capitalism and few things show that better then the Company Towns with their Company Stores and their Company Money

[@MrHkballer1]

Please do a video on the old company towns. That seems like a great video!

[@mom.left.me.at.michaels9951]

Love to see one of the Manhattan project town! That would be a great start to the series.

[@smakermanster]

I used to live in Niigata pretty close to Aizuwakamatsu..makes sense they'd do a smart project. And also for me, the interesting thing about that Castle is probably the multi-colored lake right next to it.

[@KelleyGreenEcstasy]

I have this fear that once automated mobility takes off and when the time comes to redesign our cities based on population growth, then they are going to design them focused on ease of movement for the machines instead of for walkers. Then we'll have to keep our arms and legs inside the sidewalk at all times. edit: great work as always Joe!

[@nickbenton4881]

That’s already true of the vast majority of US and Canadian cities haha

[@definitelynotcole]

What... That's what it is now.

[@KelleyGreenEcstasy]

@@definitelynotcole i meant more that there will be even more "lanes" and the pedestrian lane is going to get even smaller instead of the opposite. like, how joe said that they plan on having the delivery bots underground, except it's a lot cheaper to just let them run on the sidewalks... just a continuation of the same policies with our space decreasing.

[@theobserver9131]

Yeah, when car companies and oil companies got together to buy and dismantle passenger trains, and started building everything around cars. This is an effort to get away from cars, but are we jumping out of the pot and into the fire?

[@danielshults5243]

A lot of these projects involve massive underground tunnel networks connecting every single building, or perhaps drones flitting about making deliveries... The impression we get is that those autonomous bots will be tucked away out of sight, but in reality it's WAY less expensive to move cargo on the ground than under it or above it... and the economic reality will probably bear that out in time.

[@johnbogle6475]

The issues I see with smart cities are how to deal with individuality. People have a preference in how they want to live. Often meeting this preference can make a huge difference in ones health (both mental and physical). These preferences (some are even requirements) change with time, varying cultural perceptions and many other factors. A community needs to be flexible to allow for ever changing needs and wants. To try and outguess anything but the most basic needs (and often even these are filtered through a political lense of the designers) is IMHO folly. Planned cities may work well for a short time but in the long run, too much micro planning just leads to a bad environment and waste. I of course live in a small town that is semi-rural. I oppose much (not all) expansion if it means higher density (I don't believe that outside of a family group, people were designed to live in such close proximity). Keep in mind that the higher density and therefore more complex a city becomes, the more fragile it becomes. Smart cities will probably work well for a generation (sans any "black swan" events) but when they stop working what do we do? Tear it down and rebuild the whole thing? That seems efficient :). I thought your comment about a laboratory was telling. Who wants to live in an experiment AND what is life like after the experiment ends? You're still in a cage (possibly gilded but a cage nonetheless). Anyway, that's my .02 worth.

[@vilhelmkron7455]

Dont be a spineless coward

[@drek9k2]

This. And also you hit nail on the head, it is one problem of which there's no solution--one of scale. Because if you play say city simulators like I see guy above me saying, you will know how some unlikely event can bring everything down, or how some small error in planning can lead to cascade failure. Or what's worse and most likely, it simply will be the natural outcome of running the simulation for long enough that the inevitable outcome is it does not work beyond reaching a certain size. That's really the problem of all societies ultimately, because like Socialism and Communism, and probably Objectivism and anarchism too, all works perfectly well at the small town level. This is because the society's scale is at the natural human limits of approx. 250 persons. That's the large extended tribal group. Up above that you are essentially chaining a meshnet of social networks together and stitching together to form increasingly large and complex societies based around certain social roles and responsibilities. Naturally the biggest problem impairing the Soviet Union was simply its sheer scale. Which means what China does it does really well, because it can simply airdrop a million people on some work zone and finish the project overnight, but maintaining the society running perpetually just doesn't work well at this scale. And, it requires nonstop diligence of people maintaining their own social roles, and not allowing the perverse into the halls of power, that ruins every society with a dictator or monarchist family eventually. So something that attempts to bypass that problem with technology is one going to need to ask what basic assumptions being made, and two who does it benefit (if it benefits a small caste, usually the idea itself is really bad and like the organized crime, only the mafia bosses are really benefiting a lot, crew the Sopranos was based on weren't rich or influential, being a drug mule is sad, it benefits people at the top at expense of your family), and most important, three one must ask what level of alienation it is producing. "Smart" itself is just a shitty marketing term, it does not make you smart, in fact people buying "smart" things often are pretty gullible and stupid. Like why would you want your coffee maker connected to the internet? What purpose does it serve having cameras in your home accessible via internet? It allows random strangers to spy on you. People online look through unsecured cameras all the time. Which means governments, corporations, and organized crime can watch you while you sleep. Ergo things with "smart" in it often is means for social control. Like if I get in my car I want to be anonymous, not have it drive itself, not have Elon Musk spying on me, not having companies watching me 24/7, which is what whole internet and touchphone era amounts to, Orwellian blanket surveillance. So I want to keep that nightmare out of my home as much as possible. I do not want my home to become a physical extension of the means to social control. I mean, it's true of urban landscape in general I guess that all are cages, in essence a real bad event happens and you are trapped in urban zone is just this, trapped. This all is my main problem with things like arcologies, is the way even to keep things running invariably involves either giving power to people who shouldn't have it, or to automation and therefore all the problems we already experience using automated things that don't have a person's latitude making sure it works correctly so when it fails its failure is automated. Honestly it is the main thing that's going to be difficult in spacecraft, is the social psychological toll taking on generation ships. Basically, if you have introduced the same problems into your city as you face making a generation ship work, you may have made a mistake. I am being very negative but I do like the ideas some of these oil sheiks like to toy with, it's just they are Capitalists and in many cases actual monarchs and so I am every bit suspicious of their intention as I am some American CEO or politician. Making a city that feels like one big gilded cage and cascade failure waiting to happen is not appealing.

[@dawnkobylarz7126]

I found Joe 4 years ago, he does a wonderful job of breaking down complex issues, so that the masses can pretty much comprehend them much more completely!

[@melissabird7685]

Always happy to see more content from you!

[@scarpfish]

I know one thing that is sustainable for sure. CGI artists making a killing off making awe inspiring presentations of these rich people's irrational fever dream projects.

[@brettcameratraveler]

Concept artist in an AI world? Not as sustainable as you might be thinking.

[@sobertillnoon]

Yes, it is fair to paint the woven city with that brush. They know company towns have existed and they are harbors for abusive dynamics. That they want to do this again is not a good thing and that they haven't addressed it is telling.

[@altrag]

Two big open questions here: First, its Japan. They're practically a company country. If you think America is overrun with regulatory capture, you ain't seen nothing. Look up the term "zaibatsu". They were supposed to be broken up when the Americans were trying to rebuild Japan after WW2, but that was never fully accomplished and the country is still in large part ruled by a handful of companies. Which means Japanese people - especially the older generation - are far less likely to be worried about corporate influence in their cities. Its just.. normal for them. Basically, there's a big cultural difference and I doubt Toyota will face anywhere near as much resistance over there as Google has over here. And lets not forget, even in North America we send lots of our old folks to places run by companies that control basically every aspect of their lives. We call them "retirement homes" or "assisted living" or whatever other nice phrasing, but at the end of the day its a very similar thing, just on a smaller scale.

[@eekee6034]

Eh. Nations are harbors for abusive dynamics. If they can't force you, they'll manipulate you.

[@studiosandi]

Your videos are always so interesting. Thank you for making them.

[@bsmythe3214]

When it comes to making a dystopia, the possibilities seem endless!

[@druid139]

Yes!! Just build side-by-side line cities and we can stack humans in nice shiny cans. Then the aliens come and taste us as convenient and tasty lunches for business meetings/staff parties/smlurgs/xghklri/or just as quick gifts to friends.

[@akirawan1864]

This is completely off topic but I’m just amazed my home town Fujisawa was picked out of all the possible cities and now in your video 😊

[@Rapiddrive1]

I find myself constantly laughing out loud from Joe’s sense of humor. Risibility good!

[@procrastinator41]

😆

[@hughdalton7622]

Do... you... find him... wisible?

[@Rapiddrive1]

@@hughdalton7622 no commerce needed, but I am an Elmer Fudd fan…

[@hughdalton7622]

@@Rapiddrive1 (Monty Python)

[@brianbeswick]

Next time on Answers With Joe… find out how horrific the company towns of the past were… only on Nebula because KZbin would demonetize it!

[@almafuertegmailcom]

Oh, yes, because current cities are not company towns, at all. I mean, the government is a corporation, and they do own the cities. And you do work for the government. Well, not exactly work, you're a slave to the government: You work a third of the year just so you can gather enough money to pay the government their taxes. They own all the public space, but the private space too, because they tax you on it, and if you don't pay those taxes, they'll take the house away. So even if you own, you're renting from them. And they also impose a code of what you can and can't do with it. And, if they want, they can use eminent domain to take it away. Seeing how it is, I'd rather live in a town owned by just about any company, except the government. At least the other companies don't have armies and police forces. The government is the scariest corporation.

[@sideshowratt]

Love how the artists' renderings for these always include tons of beautiful foliage while the real things are just concrete, concrete and more concrete.

[@halfsquatchshortbeard3435]

I’ve been to the Aizuwakamatsu castle. It’s crazy impressive. Japan is littered with interesting architecture and vistas.

[@GreggyAck]

I like the idea of a web of parks that can take you on foot throughout the city. I love walking but it kind of spoils it when you’re stopping at pedestrian crossings and creeping through dark, pissy underpasses.

[@MrAntice]

Underpasses are the worst idea ever. Put the damn cars below and the people up top in the sunshine where they belong.

[@eyetrollin710]

Every single place I've ever lived has a network like that,, and I've lived in 11 cities/towns... Before I got my driver's license at 35 I utilize them all,, and you know what most of them were empty,

[@TheNickleChick]

​@@eyetrollin710😑😑

[@Raycloud]

It might work in Japan but it will never work any place that demands also having a diverse multicultural society. Too much conflict and way too little social engagement and trust.

[@BirthQuakeRecords]

I can’t wait to see Adam Something’s take on this project. Because I’m sure he’ll uncover why it’s actually a ludicrous cash grab doomed to fail. I hope it isn’t, but my experience gives me the feeling that that’s what’s actually happening 😓

[@JamesR1986]

Four problems jump to mind immediately. 1. trusting a car company to fund walkable/bikeable infrastructure 2. no mass transportation, even if you had automated cars (which we don't) you're not benefiting from economies of scale because you have a bunch of people in individual tin cans, as opposed to a bunch of people in one big tin can. 3. Cost of that underground infrastructure. 4. Inability to scale due to reliance on hydrogen.

[@LG123ABC]

@@JamesR1986 Mass transit sucks. Americans like having their own vehicle to go where they want, when they want and we don't like having to share the ride with strangers. You know why rich people take private jets? Because they can!

[@CRneu]

@@LG123ABC bad mass transit sucks. Mass transit that's infrequent, only goes to far off places, and is expensive is what most americans think of when they think mass transit. When you have good quality mass transit and most things you need are within walking distance then it's all good. The problem is america is designed around everything being a 10-15 minute car ride instead of a 5-10 minute walk. America has several decent transit systems with pretty good ridership. The reason why they work is that population density is high enough to make sense. Rural americans think mass transit sucks because everything is 20-30 miles away. The comparison to rich people taking jets makes no sense.

[@BirthQuakeRecords]

@@LG123ABC I’m willing to bet you’ve never lived anywhere that had mass transit that was adequate by the standards of any other rich country. Even the RICH people of the Netherlands and Sweden and stuff take mass transit because it’s just so much better than even the best America had to offer. Cars are an AWFUL away to get around most of the time (especially when that’s the only viable option and you’re in the middle of a 6-hour long rush “hour”), and are extremely inefficient at moving people, and wildly expensive for both individuals and the government. The only reason American mass transit sucks is because it was intentionally sabotaged on every level for the better part of a century by the car industry and other hucksters trying to get rich at the expense of everyone else. I love having a car, but I _HATE_ that it’s literally the only choice I have to get around. That’s not freedom, that’s complete dependency.

[@mtb416]

@@BirthQuakeRecords The only reason mass transit in America isn’t big is because of sabotage? No. That’s utter bullshit. America has land, lots of it. That’s why mass transit sucks and personal vehicles made more sense. It’s amazing that this obvious point still needs to be argued. Sweden is half the size of Texas and the Netherlands are 6% the size of Texas. Jesus, so obnoxious.

[@Gluttonforpeace]

Excellent work! There's no one else just frankly talking about these things like you do. Please don't die in a car accident or something.

[@WalkerMojica]

God I just love this channel. Been watching for years & have learned so much & keep learning

[@_KaiTheGamer_]

On the one hand, this sounds like a genuinely cool project to aid an aging population. But on the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that it'll be a Torture Nexus situation.

[@Nick-vs2nb]

You're both informative and hilarious. Really great and interesting content dude, you and your team do great work.

[@rebekahburger1271]

Love the Soylent green reference me and my family always joke with it but still fear about it in a serious sense in some scenarios. 😅

[@joannetutor4051]

I’m feeling shades of Total Recall. I sure hope I stay here in rural land till I die❤ Great video as usual!

[@robsquared2]

If only they could pull themselves out of the 13th century socially first (in regards to Neom)

[@RisingRevengeance]

I don't believe they could even pull off something like this before that happens

[@ccelik97]

@Aqua Fyre And don't forget all the "Nooo! That's not the real Islam!!1!" crap when they get offended if you expect decency from them lol. (See the "317,000,000-state solution" on the Onion.) It's a real trend in Turkey too btw, or at least among the middle aged-to-elderly.

[@snecilia9601]

​@@RisingRevengeanceCyberdwarf knows the truth.

[@hydrolifetech7911]

@Aqua Fyre you can say the same about all organised religion. Why are you conveniently forgetting the horrible things Christianity brought?

[@travispluid3603]

@@hydrolifetech7911 Not brought- wants to BRING. Christianity doesn't seem to want to bring us back to a regressive, massively culturally conservative existence.

[@JohnYowan]

Thanks for another very educational video. I am just taking a moment to say I appreciate all of your content and I hope you're doing great.

[@joescott]

That's very kind, thank you!

[@jun1994]

Toyata already has a experience developing a city unlike Google. Their HQ was located in a city called Koromo. It was renamed to Toyota city in 1950's. It's like Detroit for Ford without downfall.

[@nikojnemavakvo]

the best not boring intro you have ever made good job old man

[@nicknorthcutt7680]

I think there's definitely some positives to smart cities, but also a lot of things to be weary about. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the future.

[@lars_larsen]

I have my own ideas about what a smart city is... but the very first step would be to not have any part of it owned or run by any corporations.

[@drek9k2]

This. A corporation, literally defined as a financial association existing literally solely to maximize financial benefit to the shareholders; an organizational instrument for the enrichment of stockholders, usually a small group of people/company holding majority of shares, run by a government called the executive board along with further administration. A corporation is literally everything that sucks about big government, only they don't protect you or put out fires or build roads either, and they charge you scam fees for every little thing. A corporate owned city is nothing new in fact there's already a name for it: it's called a plantation

[@robpat1859]

Absolutely NAILED it with the soylent green clip. An overly emphatic, three-fingered chefs kiss to you for that one, sir. MMMUUHHHH!!

[@Daily_Llama]

For the record, “Company Towns” have a much better record than any government ever created…

[@srfnsurfer]

As long as companies keep making things for profits, I will never trust them to decide a person's way of life.

[@SamyasaSwi]

Yeah same

[@cadthunkin]

Actually, those you should fear the most as they will ask you to work for free since its not about "profit".

[@SamyasaSwi]

@@cadthunkin What do you mean?

[@Lux_Lethal]

I lived in a bit of a 20 minute city for several years in the downtown financial district of Miami called Brickell. Most of the time it was faster to walk somewhere than to spend the nearly 10 minutes driving around and around in the parking garage to get down to street level. There was also the Metro Rail with 2 very close stops from my condo. Grocery shopping was kind of a pain since if I walked I could only buy as much as I could carry the near 1.5 miles back home. I usually just ordered them & hoped I'd get a good shopper. I loved my view & knowing there was always so much going on in a big city & you can't beat the weather there. Now I live in a small town in The South in a single family home. Everything is still within 20 minutes or less (driving) from my home, & it's more convenient to walk out to my garage to my car. I don't have to wait for & go down an elevator, there's no awkward chit chat from neighbors I don't know anything about. But, everyone in my town now seem genuinely friendly. I had to re-learn that when you make eye contact you're supposed to exchange pleasantries. In Brickell people didn't speak to strangers on the street. I miss my view & the variety of restaurants in Brickell, but I don't miss feeling like I'm surrounded by 10K people within a city block. And the air quality where I live now is way better. Regarding these new projects, as someone who likes privacy I don't now how I feel about being monitored even more than I am already. Also, it seems like an easy way to implement a social credit score system, which I am very opposed to. And, I don't need a corporation to tell me what I can eat, to exercise, for them to monitor my health, etc. All these 'big' ideas for 'smarter' living always seem like they could turn dystopian quickly, and once you're living there, you could be stuck. I'd be curious and cautious about the fine print of the contract when you move in.

[@altrag]

Yeah there's a lot of poor design in a lot of attempts at forcing walkability into North American cities. Starting with the overdensity. If you're trying to pack 10k people into a city block then you aren't in a "walkable neighborhood", you're in a concrete jungle. You ideally shouldn't have so many neighbors that you don't at least recognize their faces. The neighborhood should also be designed so that you want to hang around in the neighborhood's own public spaces for recreation rather than always going elsewhere, allowing you to meet and interact with those who live closest to you (shut-ins notwithstanding). Watch some videos by Not Just Bikes to see the difference between the kind of poorly-planned "walkable" neighborhoods we have here and the significantly better ones they have in Amsterdam and whatever other parts of Europe he thought was nice enough to make a video about. For groceries for example, if your neighborhood is well designed you will have a grocery near the main transit link to the larger city. Yes, you still have the whatever-you-can-carry limitation, but you'll be walking right by the grocer most days anyway on your way home from work or wherever you go. Of course that requires transit links in the rest of the city to be worthwhile - another thing that's typically lacking in NA's designs. Once you step foot beyond the planned neighborhood you're screwed if you aren't in a car, so even the most walkable neighborhoods in NA still have to be at least somewhat car-centric to account for the fact that they're kind of an island among the sea of cars. If we had walkable _cities_ rather than just neighborhoods, a lot of these issues become much easier to resolve because all the general day-to-day necessities can just be located in places you're likely to be passing by anyway. Right now if you live in a "walkable" NA neighborhood, you: 1) drive home from work because transit outside of your neighborhood isn't worth using, 2) park your car in whatever parking facilities are available which is probably quite far out in order to keep up the pretense of being car-free, 3) walk across however much space to get to your building, as the living spaces are almost always between the parking and wherever you want to get within the neighborhood, so you may as well stop by on the way. 4) go all the way up the elevator to drop off whatever you were carrying, 5) go back down the elevator, 6) walk all the way to the grocery and do your shopping, 7) walk all the way back, 8) go all the back up the elevator and 9) finally you're home. In a "good" walkable neighborhood it should be more like: 1) get off transit. 2) pass the grocer on the way home and do your shopping. 3) walk home. 4) go up the elevator. 5) done. So you save ~4 "steps" in the process, depending on how you want to define things. In particular, you save steps #2 and #3 which are major time and energy sinks, and you skip #4 which can lead to just not caring enough to finish the exercise ("I only need one or two things hardly seems worth the effort I can just get them when I go tomorrow"), and allowing your grocery list to build to a point where doing it all in one trip becomes troublesome.

[@lilybrass9yearsago264]

Get a big bag with wheels!!! Life saver

[@Lux_Lethal]

@@lilybrass9yearsago264 I wanted to but there was no place to store it in my condo. I just decided to help someone with employment by having a shopper and then tipping them well.

[@ThalassTKynn]

On a similarly futuristic, but much more optimistic subject: I'd be interested to see your opinion on the whole Solarpunk thing.

[@PBeringer]

Ugh. That shit is basically, "things can just exist without manufacturing or energy". The toughest thing about living in a "solar punk" city is deciding how to use the light from the single LED powered by the floating balloon wind turbine thing. Provided the nights are windy, does one use it to read, or to see what they're doing when they're cooking? The garbage concept art I've seen of that just looks like Medieval living, just with nicer gardens. Don't get me wrong, "solar punk" is a great way to send the human species back a few millennia, and some people might dig on that vibe. Personally, I like having more that 1VDC of electricity available to enrich my life.

[@eekee6034]

@@PBeringer Interesting! I didn't really know what solar punk is, (there's too many other nice rocks to live under; can't try em all,) but it sounds like a dream I've had all my life. I'm just trying to pick a new hobby, and developing low-energy minimalist computers is one of my top choices. There are problems with that idea though. The really big one is that encryption costs energy.

[@landiahillfarm6590]

The Soylent Green reference was totally "tasteless" . LOL Loved it

[@amaan6964]

In regards to Model Villages, Cadbury was well known with Bournville in Birmingham, United Kingdom. It might be the exception to the rule though as they were regarded to treating their workers very well. Opening libraries and swimming pools as the owners thought happier workers would be more productive. Compared to victorian era slums of the time it was night and day.

[@MoCsomeone]

American corporate towns were brutal barbaric slave towns. They enslaved everyone including all the children.

[@usainengland]

Thanks for this comment about the positive impact of model villages. I think a primary and important difference between company towns and model villages is motivation behind such projects. Many, if not all, model villages were built as acts of Christian charity as well as good business practice. Company towns were hardly ever motivated by charity. “Company town” has a distinctly negative connotation in my mind. The Cadburys were Quaker and wanted to uplift their workers. Sorry, if you knew this information. I think most people from the UK or USA wouldn’t know. I have learned a few thinks since I immigrated.

[@LG123ABC]

@@usainengland Henry Ford also created "model towns" with the idea of "helping" his workers. Didn't work out so well.

[@Buggle7619]

As someone frm B'ville the Cadburys would be turning in their graves with how it is changing due to Mondelez and the slow introduction of things like alcohol. I loved its quirkiness but its quickly becoming like everywhere else! Still pretty tho!

[@eekee6034]

I was just in Barrow Hill Roundhouse; it's the last operational roundhouse (train yard with a turntable) in Britain. If I understood the exhibit right, Barrow Hill was a model village which worked out pretty well. The museum isn't too shy of bad things, they say how dangerous and hard it was to work on steam trains, but they don't seem to have anything bad to say about the village.

[@Razmoudah]

When you mentioned the population age balance of Japan, it reminded me of the movie Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Solid State Society. At least things aren't that bad there, yet. Also, company towns are a blatant cornerstone of American life. After all, towns aren't the only things that file Articles of Incorporation. Corporations do so as well.

[@XSemperIdem5]

There's a whole town in a single building somewhere in Alaska. It's owned by a company of course.

[@JFTC709]

It made me think of Roujin Z

[@micwclar]

Took a bit of scrolling but I finally saw the word I was looking for, arcology. The woven city sounds like it's arcology 2.0. Larry Niven wrote about an arcology in Oath of Fealty in 1981. Loved the idea, and there was a bit of benevolence from the corporation that owned the city to those that lived within. I think it could work for many people, but would need to be strong protections for those living there both from within and without. None of these modern flavours seem to get the right mix of what is needed over 40 years after Niven wrote about it.

[@variable7833]

I just started working for toyota and never heard of this. Def some water cooler talk for me to use.

[@Hannah-qu7hy]

These remind me of Disney's plan for creating the city of the future where it's showing off and testing new technology.

[@achosenone44]

disney is with the sicko demonic lieng loser devil numans is being deceived by evil left and right!!!

[@4th1st73]

Living in these cities is going to be like living in a waking nightmare

[@irock58]

Anyone else feel warm and fuzzy when he ends with “love ya guys, take care”?

[@richardcampbell2438]

Need to read Bellamy's "Looking Backward", especially how goods are delivered to households.

[@ceilinh6004]

My dad and his siblings lived in company housing for years while they were growing up, and his next oldest sister was dead from mesothelioma (a terminal lung cancer brought on by asbestos exposure) before her 50th birthday. Her exposure came from that company housing, as the entire development happened to be riddled with asbestos. This kind of thing, as well as the points mentioned in the video, make me very leary of any kind of company housing.

[@michaelmcbride809]

I suspect that some, if not most, of these projects, are more technology demonstrators than attempts to control their employees. What better way to sell a product than show it working, especially something as esoteric as the technologies that empower projects like the Woven City to function.

[@savagefoxdesigns6692]

I think thats mighty optimistic of you to think! Yeah of course these are proof of concept domains all of them are but how they will be used down the road given that no system has stood without eventually falling to corruption and oppression. Not counting the systems that never got a chance due to disaster or major change in direction. All big business cares for profits over people. Its in the nature of "Good business". The only way I would believe this wasn't the case is if these cities were solely developed exclusively for the families of the companies head honchoes and top scientists.

[@joescott]

If I'm trying to be positive about it, that's the upside I'd focus on.

[@brindlekintales]

The Woven City will probably wind up having a lot of knots in it.

[@michaelmcbride809]

@@brindlekintales Almost a certainty.

[@brindlekintales]

@@michaelmcbride809 Anal retentive algorithms will run the show.

[@dean_the_jedi]

Interesting what could be done with Smart Technology in terms of Movement, Health ect, but really, really scary how it could be used to control everything that the residents do.

[@drek9k2]

Yeah and if it's being done by a megacorp, which do you think it's going to be used to do: Improve the lives of average citizens just as a public works project because it's the right thing to do Used to own and control absolutely everyone so as to maximize profit and personal power It's like a pen for holding slaves. I really wish people kept the tradition of driveby trolling alive. I think it did people a lot of good to just be randomly harassed and doxed. Anyone old enough knows full well why you don''t give mr. stranger danger your full credentials, nor put one single thing connected to the internet you don't want the creepiest, most depraved, nihilistic, greedy psychopath imaginable having access to it. Some very stupid as shit people used to say "I don't care if the CIA watches me masturbate" when pointed out you can just tape your webcam over. I spoke with a parent about this, it was mindblowing, they thought I was being paranoid, and then when it was discovered zuckerberg did it that parent decided to. i asked why, and was told "because he's a tech guy." Average person might be like profoundly stupid broken in cattle, but boomers mind numbingly so. This coming from exactly the same group that whined about face masks "restricting muh freedoms."

[@marshalepage5330]

I live in a town home now which is a very attached and concentrated way to live. The neighbors I have now are excellent. It's peaceful all the time since both my new neighbors moved in. I hope these new neighbors stay for a long time. In the past I have had neighbors that were loud in the middle of the night, intrusive, and did illegal things in this very same town home. So being in concentrated living with a lot of other people saves a lot of money and depending on the neighbors is sometimes very pleasant and sometimes very inconvenient. Companies already have control over most things. We are not noticing reality if we think otherwise. Currently American's eat a lot of processed food because the shelf life is longer and therefore cheaper to purchase. It would be nice to have access to affordable healthier food.

[@eekee6034]

I'd love the automated deliveries of Toyota's planned town. :)

[@chensonsr]

I owe my soul to the company store.

[@Shanghaimartin]

2:19 Just FYI, there hasn't been anything like that in Shanghai in about the last 10 years. It's insane how much cleaner the air quality in such a massive city has become.

[@LeoMkII]

Cheap EVs like those china is making sure make a difference

[@joescott]

Well, that's good news.

[@Shanghaimartin]

@@joescott You can also tell that is an old picture as it doesn't show the "Shanghai Tower" which would have been easily seen during construction from around 2013 and completed in 2015 :)

[@rexxdodson616]

I live in an old sears catalog home from a company town... Hopewell Virginia. It's still a Factory City 🏭

[@infinity3119]

Really like that Soylent Green reference! Lol

[@macarronewitchis]

The "Line" looks like a nightmare to me! I am glad to be from a small city in South America where I can still live like real living been with access to nature.

[@noelramirez1551]

Rather live in the line than Brazil lol

[@mattmmilli8287]

I’ll take the line tyvm

[@MuppetsSh0w]

You realize there are hundreds of miles of bare dessert hostile to human life in every direction? I swear the takes on the line are dumber than idea itself.

[@macarronewitchis]

@@MuppetsSh0w Do you realize that there is no need for a city there? Do you realize that there is other ways to create a city? Do you realize that a confined space with mirrored wall all around controled by private companies is an advertising paradise for the companies and a dystopian nightmare por people living in there?

[@manicdan481]

I think the closest example would be something like The Villages in Florida. A huge community for +100k residents with a unique design from the ground up. Almost anything can be reached by golf cart, small center hubs exist for hangout spots, and their style of neighborhoods and mini centers (bar and pool) is consistent throughout. Its not high-tech, but its the closest example of a large scale architecture ideology that seemed to work pretty well for the people its serving. Nearly every one of my older relatives has started or finished their retirement move down there. While people might fear what its like for a corporation to 'own' so much of the city/town like that, in theory they are trying to be profitable and so it has to be done in a way that people would want to move there, so it cant be that bad or it wouldnt take off. As long as you get to buy your house and property, you have a lot more power, they just set it up with a theme in mind, but people take over most of it through property values and resale.

[@MailleGrace]

Levittown, the original suburb designed by the architect William Levitt after WWII, is based on this exact model - small center hubs, mini centers for close shopping and socializing, and fairly standard "cookie cutter" homes to choose from. This original suburb was fantastic, and is still beloved by those who grew up there, and often chose to still live in the same homes they grew up in. What suburbs evolved into, however... that's a different matter entirely. But we definitely need more places like the Villages and Levittown for people.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

It is quite easy to lock people into a town, just keep them in debt as company towns traditionally did. The diamond miner gets to rent his mining pick for 30% of their wages, housing is another 30%, food is another 30%, you get 10% less pay for not meeting quota, and you can get all sorts of luxuries on monthly payments. So you're never getting out again. Once you've captured a market you no longer have to treat them fairly. Look up the lovely neologism enshittification.

[@wayne.edward.clarke]

Cool vid, as always. But your efforts to smoothly segue from the end of your content into your sponsor's message costs you the chance to have an emotionally satisfying conclusion to your content, leaving the viewer with a feeling like: "Hold it, where was the ending? Did I miss it?!"

[@nathanwindom3978]

Happy Birthday Joe!!!! 🎉

[@nathanwindom3978]

3/14 👉👉

[@miss_c_83]

Who else thinks Joe would be a fantastic dinner party guest? He's so clever and interesting

[@gaywizard2000]

Bet he's not up for dessert tho!

[@bertdemeulemeester]

In Belgium we have a few examples of cities that were build by big corporations in the 60. Their former residents were living a very comfortable life which they would never have been capable of having if it was not for that company. People still talk about it and you can still see how much better those cities were build than those others around them. I wouldn't count out the ability of corporations to build houses and infrastructure. I mean, there are probably some things that won't go well, but I am pretty sure that it will be better than how our governments do it.

[@eekee6034]

Some of Britain's model villages worked out very well too. It depends on the company and its leaders. As for governments, I think they're already too tied into the corporate world to be better or worse. Or too snarled in their own bureaucracy.

[@petergrams6390]

Oh man. I listened to this earlier today, then just now listened to a John Michael Godier video where he describes general ships as city ships. It made me realize the these cities could be first step toward generation ships. Step one: learn to build smart cities. Step two: learn to make them into space ships

[@bradleypoe6846]

:) I hear you. I show up, watch and speak up a bit (okay, a LOT) on JMG's videos too. And yeah, if you can get the society of it to work, a "smart city" could fit in an O'Neill cylinder and then be modified for generation-ship purposes. But space is hardmode for this. No, really, you can't "go outside" in space, as that would kill you, almost always. So the situation either forces a society with a LOT of confrontations or one with a LOT of "we've got to take the edge off the madhouse" style mental health measures. The thing has me worried? Because you know how some people are--they want us to shoot for Mars, not for Mars's sake, but for the moon-shot effect ideas and technologies that would be used back on Earth for normal cities where we CAN go outside and leave.

[@iRogerRomero]

Love everything you do. almost mistook your channel as some Clickbait low budget channel due to never seeing that red arrow on your thumbnails

[@user-cd4bx6uq1y]

If high-tech town experiments allow me to experience the idealized American Suburban 70s-ish movie life in VR then I'm all for it

[@drek9k2]

This is what I mean by propaganda. You know, in other parts of the world they sell the "American red party cup." This one wasn't even on purpose. Completely on accident, the Hollywood industry nonstop use of those red plastic cups made it become a symbol to the rest of the world of affluence and popularity, partying and good time. Things you see on TV are mostly fake, you do realize that right? So many peoplethe standard reaction of Americans to things like 9/11 was "it was just like in a movie!" I saw the cringiest interview ever of some obese American EMT, she went to Ukraine because durrhurr media said freedoms or something like that, and was going on about how her fast combat experience "it felt just like it was in the movies!" So when I say things about social control, I mean exactly tools like that which are designed to warp and distort your view of reality, and your view of yourself and other people and life's meaning. This is exactly same playbook that dictators and cults use. And you'd give up your rights to live in some dystopian reality because you think it will be "like living in a movie"? You know what else Hollywood makes movies about? The holocaust, and the end of the civilization. When you scratch beneath the surface to see means of social control it is truly horrifying. Also you probably are not going to be the oligarch living on the spires. Most probably, you and all your children will forever be toiling in the industrial guts of the machinery. The problem with the idea is it always leads to a complete lack of freedom.

[@muscletrucking5609]

Wow... an utopian socially engineered city.... what could possibly go wrong? 😁

[@LMXPebble]

BioShock and Portal taught me well.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

Actually, social engineering lab cities would be a lot more useful than these tech lab cities. You just need to set up some guiding principles to keep it ethical, which is gonna be necessary anyway with tech lab cities. Also, social engineering lab cities might help with improving the guiding principles, and I don't see the tech lab cities do that.

[@lindaseel9986]

The idea of underground railroad /trucking, etc.gives me visions of West World.

[@crippleontherun]

Hi Joe love the show. Could you please do a show about anabiotic’s and how they will not work within 100 years. Thanks have a great day.

[@vernss3092]

The loss of autonomy terrifies me. I do not trust any government or corporation enough to let them have this level of control.

[@KingXenos]

Its so strange. I hear things like "Toyota are focusing on people" And all I hear is "Toyota are panicking because oil is running out and are scrambling for other ways to make a profit". There is absolutely no way on Earth these company's are doing all this for there common man. It all comes comes back to profit. And profit means stepping on the working class. Sorry Joe, its not a dig at you. You have to try and be impartial here. But I know only to well that capitalism is designed to make the rich richer. While the poor are left to get screwed over time and time again.

[@dexterrity]

the only real divide is that of the classes

[@KingXenos]

@@dexterrity So true. But people are too wrapped up in being "woke" to notice. And that's nurtured by people in power because if we are busy fighting each other they are free to do what ever they please without being noticed. Basically life is a scam they we are signed up for against our will at birth and then spend a life time paying a subscription for until we die. Greed is the real enemy, and unfortunately the human race is riddled with it. So drop the bombs is what I say. The world would be a much better place without humans in it.

[@MAQFIELD]

Great example of a companycity is the Gardencity Margaretenhöhe in Essen Germany built by the creator of the Big Bertha, Krupp

[@hatake1990]

Nice Soylent Green joke ha!! Reminds me of the time i worked at a local burger joint, and their (from scratch) vegan/vegetarian burger was called The Soylent Green...😆 (This place was like, '50's '70's sci-fi themed, basically.)

[@eekee6034]

There's an actual company selling liquid food called Soylent Green. :) It's vegetable-based. I think they were around long before the film, but they know about it and they're fine with it. *shrug* :)

[@laudavhutcheon946]

You've got me thinking :) I already bought a full self driving car for outside the home mobility but what about movement around my home and property. Perhaps it is time to start saving for a humanoid caregiver, automated furniture, hmmmmm. Great content Joe.

[@u574254]

Can’t wait to see the blooper reel on this one!

[@karlaskitties]

You couldn’t pay me enough to fall for urban living, no matter how high-tech and fancy schmancy I love my vegetable garden, my big house and having 5 cats and chickens

[@bobfoster687]

In the 60s/70s the US government sponsored about 25”New Towns” around the country. Only one succeeded and is still in existence today. The Woodlands, TEXAS. Thank you, George Mitchell!!!

[@michaelgasperik4319]

I used to live in a company owned town for 3+ years, and it was great. It was way out in the middle of the Nevada desert. Almost 2 hour drive to the nearest grocery store. 12hr shifts worked 4 days on 3 days off, then 3 days on 4 days off. Was making $28 per hour. Lived in a company owned, 3 bedroom, 2 bath house with a garage. Rent was taken out of my check before taxes, $125 per month ($62.50 from 1st and 2nd week checks), propane taken out of 3rd week, electricity was generated by the plant and was free at my house. Nothing taken out of 4th or occasional 5th check of the month (paid on fridays). There was a small store to get over priced gas, basic food items, take and bake pizza, deli sandwiches, and dvd movie rentals. The only reason I left is because the quary ran out of gypsum. Now, Empire, Nevada is a ghost town about 2 hours north of Reno, near where they hold the Burning Man festival every year.

[@eekee6034]

Yeah, some companies are far better than others. Plus, if they know you can leave, they kind-of have to be better.

[@Myrtle2911]

The company town mentions reminded me of an old song: "You load 16 tons*, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store" ("Sixteen Tons" by Tennessee Ernie Ford) *coal I don't think we want to go back to that.

[@Itried20takennames]

I think the advent of electric vehicles will help with the smog problem in dense cities…..in 20-30 years expect these to be cheaper and to replace most vehicles. And always thought that if you had a city with an interconnected second level for all buildings, leaving the ground levels and below for cars/trucks and parking, would help as well.

[@wolf1066]

11:35 - I LOLed so hard! If there were two words *_neither_** of which* you'd want associated with your project, "hubris" and "arrogance" are both of them. Well done, Google. 🤣🤣🤣