What The English Don't Say - Why 'Saving Face' is So Important

[@colinmacleod2123]

When I was growing up in Scotland I sometimes heard my grandmother say "I was making soup but I made too much so I gave some to my neighbour". After I heard this a few times I started to wonder why she was so bad at estimating the quantity she needed. It took quite a while before I realised that this was a polite excuse to offer help to a neighbour without them feeling embarassed by receiving charity.

[@secretsofenglish]

Ah bless your Grandmother! What a sweet thing to do. People have pride and want to keep it intact. Thanks for sharing your story.

[@JimmyYuen-n5n]

Once i came a script thats says no sex please ...we re english 0:21

[@ingolfbecker55595]

Thank you for your Information. I wish I knew it ages ago when I was young (20) and had an english girlfriend. At school I didn't learn anything about the dont's in english conversation. And being German we are for sure polite but don't hide our opinion. There is a saying "English are too polite to be honest, and Germans are too honest to be polite". That's true. I found it so embarrassing not to know what the family of my girlfriend really thought about me. They were all sooooo polite, beating around the bush. I asked myself so often, what do they really think or really want to say? It was emotionally so exhaustening to avoid any faux pas - especially when you even don't know them. In private my girlfriend told me later on when I had messed up things. Since then I considered british people fragile like raw eggs and I advised my children to find friends in our own german culture. Because you got to be nearly a native speaker to percive the subtleties of english politeness and hidden criticism.

[@arslongavitabrevis5136]

You have made a very good point. A friend of mine who is very well-read and has travelled quite a lot but who is also an excellent judge of character told me once "The Germans are brutally honest, that is why they have very few friends, if any". He then proceeded to explain to me how this has worked against them over the last 120 years. The English, on the other hand, are masters of diplomacy, which means they are very charming and well-mannered while plotting the destruction of your whole family; as a result, almost everyone likes and trusts them. I have excellent English friends but because I made very clear my ideas from the very beginning and asked in return the same from them. Honesty is the best policy.

[@philipadam7870]

As a male California native I moved to England at age 50 and have found the English culture very difficult to navigate! I was once an open, gregarious, fun person who, after 15 years of being in the UK no longer recognises himself. I’ve been shut down in a culture I find repressive. I find English men are especially awkward by California standards. I know there are many reasons for this… wars, invasions, and that stiff upper lip. The stereotype of the “reserved Englishman” only tells part of the story… Hannah, you are spot-on and I need you… All this said, I still would rather be in the UK than over in the states… Thank you!

[@riccardoscarpa6417]

English are excellent at avoiding conflicts, and using (mostly false) defensive manners, but also at cowardly stabbing people in the back and spreading malicious rumors. Not very endearing practices I would say. Frankness is, in many cases, a great virtue, albeit not very elegant.

[@diana-wilde]

Yes they are very 2 faced but see it as saving face. Diplomatic to your face and cruel and backstabbing as soon as you leave the room.

[@alejandrogasconpena4346]

I dont think its "false" behaviour. As humans we operate (too say it clumsy) on two levels. Emotion, arising spontaneously, and reasoning, methodic, paused and detached in a way from feeling. We need to detach in some way to be able to think clearly, so that is just ground floor, everyday behaviour of a human. When you are polite in hiding something, many times you are being truthful to the person in front of you who, many times, knows what you are avoiding to say and knows that you're doing it to avoid the spring of the harsh emotion. Is a reason to reason communication that takes into account our irrational nature and takes care not to disturb it or make it jump. The reciever is often acomplice in this and smiles in appretiation.

[@arslongavitabrevis5136]

I have been dealing with Englishmen for well over 30 years and married an English woman around the same time and there is some truth in what you say. However, many Englishmen do it for very good reasons and they are genuine; there is a very fine line dividing good manners and hypocrisy. I am of Italian descent but, like most Englishmen, detest arguments or unpleasant situations and try to avoid them; however, if my honour, or the honour of a dear friend, is at stake to the Hell with the social niceties and good manners. Be polite, always, but, above all be true to yourself and your friends. PS: For the record; with all their flaws I prefer Italians over Englishmen.

[@IaN09876]

I moved to England 15 years ago. Used to live in the US but I am originally from Syria. I wish I knew about you earlier so that I could have avoided a lot of misunderstanding about the culture and people around me.

[@75marek]

I think it’s simply unfair to deprive someone of honesty. Yes, I do appreciate discretion, politeness and respect, but at the end of the day, if the message is not coming across, it leaves one uncertain, confused and creates space for neurosis. Unfair. It’s making the other a victim of my cowardice. I hope I’ve expressed my views on this in a respectful manner.

[@mishoren]

I like your videos a lot and am amused when you drop the final "t" in some words, replacing it with a glottal stop, very British.

[@bachgenb]

Excellent and I think accurate analysis, but very abstract. I'd like more examples of both the "right" and "wrong" way to express things. I am really fascinated by your talks and it's made me think about values, English versus Welsh (my native) culture, and how different the US is. More power to you!

[@vanbalzup6481]

When I was growing up, saving face meant fighting somebody afterschool at 4pm in the park with everybody watching for even the slightest indiscretion. Usually if something happened in the morning, by 4pm the grudge had already disappeared, but the ritual still had to be performed.

[@secretsofenglish]

I'm laughing, but this is traumatizing! Kids are brutal. I hope you've recovered from this. Great name by the way!

[@Anna-zk1kl]

Thanks for this channel, it makes so many things clear… 😉

[@Nadi-n2x]

Im so grateful to find your channel, my mother had the same philosophy and she was raised in a super poor family in the middle of Russia.

[@williamwong1069]

English in a nutshell, first, they are very polite, and second, they don't mean it.😂

[@aggiesikora7727]

Thank you Hannah❤

[@catarinadearagon6404]

"Avoiding display of emotions! " The most difficult thing one has to accept when in Britain.😢 Unless you can wait until they've had a glass of wine 😅🎉

[@evaj2585]

Thank you for letting us understand English culture better. I usually hear that "oh we do not say that here" and they laugh. They are quite happy I said that though and saved some time instead of going in circles with indirectness. You can be honest and save someone's face if you do that in love. I wonder what cultures prioritise directness and honesty.

[@annalapidus943]

Do you have a video about gossip? How it's done, when it is appropriate etc?

[@secretsofenglish]

I will soon! :)

[@sartemisa1]

Haha, thanks This video answered a question I posted in your most recent video about context: who? When, etc. ❤

[@johnwheeler3071]

In England satire is everywhere, comedians, the media and politics and often its linked. Nobody wants to be the fool. Consequently it spreads throughout the nation. Its sometimes banter, its sometimes spite, sometimes people protect others from looking the fool. The constant use of satire is one good reason why English people like to save face.

[@claireconolly8355]

I watch you to understand my british husband 😂 (and his family)

[@secretsofenglish]

Cheers Claire! In-laws can be tough enough without cultural differences :)

[@lakes836]

'Saving face' is a big thing in East Asia, didn't know it's a big thing in the UK too.

[@EllenGreidinger]

Thanks for the insight. This idea of saving face contrasts with the House of Commons "Question Time" we see in the US, or Oxford Union. There seems to be a time and place for debate in England for debate as well. Perhaps if the leader of a discussion sets the stage differently, people are more willing to put aside saving face in favor of a frank exchange of views? Is that how it is?

[@LuneFlaneuse]

We do the same thing in Brazil! (At least most of us 😅 )

[@hanshton]

one should be happy and talk about achievements just say thank you and i worked hard for that or similar

[@ldenis2]

Thanks for interesting video Hannah! Have you ever considered that all the indirectness and avoidance to speak directly on the topic introduce misunderstandings and rumors and it leads to even more misunderstandings and unexpected behaviors? Seems like I am starting to understand why some of the colleagues we had from UK were quitting our team - since if the person asked to review his work - there were some pretty straight forward comments like 'this should be done in this way, change this and that and it will be ok' - probably not what UK person expects to get in response.... Now I'm hesitating if my comment is neutral and polite enough to 'Save face' :))

[@elenakruchinina5400]

It's very difficult to solve problems when you are constantly obsessed with saving faces. Especially if the problem has to be solved quickly.

[@chistkachistka6014]

I am so saddened by all this information... it is a terrible culture shock I wish I'd known years ago.

[@benjamindejonge3624]

Love your eye make up

[@alejandrogasconpena4346]

I dont think its "false" behaviour. As humans we operate (too say it clumsy) on two levels. Emotion, arising spontaneously; and reasoning, methodic, paused and detached in a way from feeling. We need to detach in some way to be able to think clearly, so that is just ground floor, everyday behaviour of a human. When you are polite in hiding something, many times you are being truthful to the person in front of you who, many times, knows what you are avoiding to say and that you're doing it to avoid the spring of the harsh emotion. It's a reason to reason communication that takes into account our irrational nature and takes care not to disturb it or make it jump. The rational reciever is often acomplice in this and smiles in appretiation for the caring gesture for the animal we are.

[@collywobbles1163]

I'm British and the English play on double word meanings are frustrating for most who don't even live in the UK or come from Canada, South Africa, Australia or New Zealand. I recently went for an interview for a Japanese company in Frankfurt Germany. Based in Frankfurt. HR interview was German and said. Right you're English. In Germany there is no need for a queue in the post office or bank - just get in and get out making sure you know what you need beforehand and be prepared. Don't run of petrol on the Autobahn and don't have Swiss number plates. And, you'll get along great in Germany. I'm British and have to agree to a certain extent. The British love to swan around and not get to the point. Brits love have meetings about meetings and meetings about when they will get to point. I have lived in Holland for 2 years, and they disliked having meetings with swaning around Brits. I agree, it's very embarrassing and that was in 2014. Long before Brexit. Brexit on the International front has made the British come across as even more lazy. Like the late Baroness Margaret Thatcher said, "There is no point lambastering your opponent, unless they are able to fight back". Loosely quoted meaning don't be a bully unless you know your opposite is equally able to meet you back...

[@secretsofenglish]

Thanks for sharing your story. It's true, too many meetings or taking too long to lay foundations or make decisions. I think there could be some variations though, but that would depend on the industry.

[@andyf4292]

thatchwer saying 'don't be a bully'? now thats rich!

[@Anne-za]

The indirect language is really annoying me. Just say what you mean and get it over with. Why leave me quessing... that is embarrassing!

[@le13579]

Aww bless your heart.

[@anxen]

​@@Lily_The_Pink972but it feels being offensive to us unfortunately. It's such a difficult way of thinking to change.

[@Nedal_al]

Hello teacher❤, could you please add the subtitles on your videos? I'm learning British accent and that will help me to do shadowing. Repeat what you say and try to say words and phrases like you . That will help me to learn new phrases and words. I'm still pre-intermediate student. Thank you a lot❤

[@secretsofenglish]

I might add subs in future videos, if the youtube ones are not so great.

[@pedrogarciasantisteban7808]

Or being great at pretending for the sake of it = NO THANKS!

[@evangelcassidy3988]

The English is an amazing culture , musical and fairy! It’s good to have someone like you as a guide on this British journey!! Thank you! 😊

[@IonelC.]

In a public video about saving face and how not to public shame people, you call 'idiots' those that do not adhere to this way of behaving? Is this a good way of saving face, or it is just a 'how not to' example?

[@MahmoudMohamed-ye9pk]

I deal with people from UK nearly everyday & most of them are so polite, I love it ❤

[@willbass2869]

New viewer from Texas. Just a comparison of "saving face" across cultures.... I and my "age cohort" are the sons of WWII & Korean War veterans, the vast majority "farm boys" or from small rural towns. Overhelming Protestant and of Anglo-Saxon or mixed German heritage. Our group was absolutely vicious WITHIN group with one another from a young age (strictly male setting, fyi). I think the British have a phrase, "tall poppy", yes? We mowed that "tall poppiness" down to ground level, raked up the cutting and burned it on a bonfire, while wildly dancing round like heathens. In our minds, we were doing, "God's work" of maintaining universal order & discipline. Ha ha. When someone's behavior (rarely physical appearance) was even a bit a variance from "group standard" we were merciless. Our verbal "scythes" were razor sharp and handled with deft elegance or hacking brutality. Physical spars were few but memorable. If you've ever watched a program about salmon/cod fishing boats you've seen the lightening fast action of a filet knive, right? The fish is gutted, dressed and on ice before it even realizes it's dead! That was us. I suspect its more a Texas/Southern cultural hangover rather than simply "male bonding". So what's the point of this review? To this day & without hesitation we are there to help one another to the END. Nothing ever expected in return. There is no pretense and few secrets we don't know about one another. We know & respect one another better than many of the spouses can approach. From a young age we stripped each other's egos right off. If I call one of them at 2am and TELL them to hurry over, the expected reply is, "do I need to bring one shovel or two". Lol! But in public and around women & children we are the most benign, gentlemanly and professional group you can imagine. Our filet knives are in their scabbards.

[@secretsofenglish]

Your story sounds like a fond memory, it's great that you have bonded and have so much care and respect for each other as adults. I think it is similar to British males, I'm sure some carry this into adulthood similarly, but of course not all of them. Another viewer wrote that to 'save face' it was fighting in the park after school, I think he was British. But perhaps your strong bonds have something to do with your environment as mentioned in your introduction. Thanks for watching and commenting. :)

[@otuzuul77]

Well, I still don’t understand what you are saying here. We need examples:)

[@PsyThaty]

Could you please explain to us what the intention of English culture is in avoiding showing human feelings? Avoiding degrading feelings such as confrontation/exaggeration is a sociological advance. But does English culture have the intellectual discernment not to also avoid showing feelings such as affection/love?

[@secretsofenglish]

Most of us show affection in private!

[@PsyThaty]

@@secretsofenglish Thanks, you are wonderful!

[@mictache]

Everything you described here is the exact opposite of what the Romanian culture is. If you're wrong, you will know it through our state of the art confrontational way of rubbing it in your face. and if we make a scene is even better because now everyone else will know how wrong you are. The problem is that usually the other person thinks the same...

[@greg1943-u3i]

Great work Hannah. I love our love of privacy, politeness, and trying to get along. Sadly, the west coast therapy culture influences English people (even men!) to talk about their emotions, and make their own problems and life choices everyone else's fault.

[@secretsofenglish]

Thanks very much! It's great to talk about emotions (privately), but people have to take responsibility for their stuff. People expect too much of others and when they get disappointed, it's the other person's fault. Too many people are empty and therapy culture 'to some extent' keeps people looping in their own BS.

[@greg1943-u3i]

@@secretsofenglish Exactly. And all that is imported culture from America...and not how we have formed.