What would a world without prisons be like? | BBC Ideas

[@bbcideas]

For another perspective on prisons, you might like to watch this video next... 👉 'I went from prisoner to PhD' kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHXFXnSEgdyHoas

[@dinosaury]

Someone is having fun making the animations

[@Boahemaa]

I agree that victims should be included in the restorative process. That's what we need restoration and not imprisonment.We as a society have chosen the easier route of hiding our problems rather than working through them. The later is much better for mental health and general well being

[@honkpill686]

You've been watching a lot of Disney movies! We should come back with the hammurabi code...

[@karaokeandrandomclips]

What if the victims want the criminals to be imprisoned so they don't hurt others?

[@theorangeoof926]

@@karaokeandrandomclipsConsider why criminals want to hurt others first and fix it from there?

[@karaokeandrandomclips]

@@theorangeoof926 You can put them in prison so they don't hurt others for the time being and still get them therapy.

[@Victor-tl4dk]

Yes, I agree with this, if people would think and realize this, probably, at the very most 'we' would 'need' maybe 1% of the number of 'prisoners' and 'officers' we have today. People 'commit crime,' i now think, because of 'ignorance,' 'needs,' and things 'lacking in their hearts.' 'Ignorance,' I think, is part of being human, so maybe there will always be some 'officers' needed to 'draw' some red lines, but not in the 'ignorant' and terrible way it is today. We are 'biologically wired' to work together and work with 'reason' I think. That said, like people with missing fingers there are people 'sick/different' in the head. But just like how when one goes outside they see 'virtually no one' with missing fingers i 'hold' that, that's much more 'rare' than 'people' think. No one- basically- does anything for no reason.

[@Villain_Killin_Dylan]

Prison is just a place where they send non-violent criminals to be tortured by the violent ones. At the very least they should separate the two.

[@phillipaldermaston]

Good idea! We could have different security levels.

[@Epic-so3ek]

@@phillipaldermaston yes and maybe they shouldn't make it so that you're sent to a paticular place based on the type of charge not the classification of offence, there's also county jail, the fact that meduim security can be pretty broad as to who gets sent there, etc, etc, etc...

[@victoria8362]

To be fair most victims aren't looking for the rehabilitation of the criminal. They are in pain and are looking for their pound of flesh.

[@jonbriggs9029]

Let's say that you want to phase out prisons and replace them with social justice programs aimed at 'righting systemic wrongs'. How do you pay for them? The same as before: tax revenue. But how do you ensure that enough people actually pay their full taxes if non-compliance is not punishable with prison at least somewhere down the line? Perhaps you could simply fine people for tax-evasion rather than imprisoning them. But how do you get people who would refuse to pay tax money to the gov't, if not ultimately for the threat of prison, to pay fine money to the gov't--if not ultimately for the threat of prison?

[@phillipaldermaston]

And also, every single law we have is ultimately backed-up by *lethal force*. Not immediately, not necessarily as first line of defence but eventually if, say, you refuse to go to prison. Ultimately, unless someone comes up with a plan then we're just going to get to lethal force sooner.

[@phillipaldermaston]

And I don't want that! Because that has historically been EVEN WORSE for marginalised people than the treatment NOW.

[@phillipaldermaston]

And that seems a BAD IDEA to put it mildly. Particularly, that has historically been EVEN WORSE for marginalised people than prisons as much as prisons suck now.

[@heyilikeair8521]

Simple. We do what the UK does, take the money from the employer, other countries probably do too. If this occurs then you have no choice in this essence. You could also leave this as the only prison type crime. These sound horrible but in essence a fear at the end of the tunnel could help the system keep going. Idk

[@phillipaldermaston]

@@heyilikeair8521 Yes, but the UK has prisons.

[@phillipaldermaston]

That small number of people that need to be kept out of society for the safety of us all? Those are prisoners. That place where they're kept out of society? That's a prison. This is not a world without prisons. So, yes, we're going to need to figure out what to do with that small minority before we can not have prisons.

[@thespeculativemusician]

But the immense majority of prisoners are not people with a sociopathic or antisocial mental disorder, so it IS kinda easier to solve than you think

[@Victor-tl4dk]

My mom told me how in Poland, I'm pretty sure she was told this, 'localities' used to have no 'officers' and people would be fine. It was a community thing. And it's funny the way she made it clear to me that people back then would laugh at the idea of hiring someone to 'police themselves' around... ironically just how some are laughing here about having no 'prisons...' People 'naturally' want to do what they feel is 'right,' I hold. It's just that sometimes they've got ignorance and/or something lacking in their hearts and so they go about it in the wrong way. Like, for example, think about someone who's willing to rob a bank? Why? what is their 'line of reasoning?' There *always* is something. No one does something for no reason. We were 'biologically wired' to work together I think. That said, like people with missing fingers there are people 'sick/different' in the head. But just like 'missing fingers,' i 'hold' that, that's much more 'rare' than 'people' think.

[@majl9585]

Very cool! I was just watching an interview with Angela Davis and I found myself thinking about what prision abolition could entail in Europe. This gave me some things to think about. And beautiful animation!

[@MarinelliBrosPodcast]

Three laws: 1.Don't kill or harm others. 2. Don't break, take, or trespass on people property. 3. Keep your promises.

[@PraveenSrJ01]

I am guilty of breaking the third rule in the past

[@phillipaldermaston]

Except 1)You wouldn't expect prison population to reflect the number of crimes because Pareto's principle and 2)incapacitation is a thing and 3)Prisons are actually closer to what, about 2000 years old? Our oldest surviving legal code talks about imprisonment as a penalty for kidnapping.

[@voleif2550]

1) Crime stats are flawed at the best of times (agendas, what that country considers a crime at that specific time, what is reported and recorded beyond grey/black figures, false convictions, jurisdictional differences in crime reporting, charges vs convictions, including returning 'remand' prisoners who've breached parole but have no new crimes, TICs - which means one conviction that gets a longer sentence because the offender admits to other previously unsolved cases and gets those taken into account without being considered new consecutive charges). You're right that a few offenders can have a large number of convictions. But crime rates were decreasing even before prison numbers increased. Plus, if 80% of prisoners cause 20% of offences, while 20% of prisoners cause 80% of offences (as you suggest), then that supports Scott's argument that only a few need to be imprisoned (the 20%) while the majority are neither particularly dangerous nor serving much purpose by being in prison. 2) I believe this is addressed. Scott says that most prisoners are not there for violent offences, so incapacitation might be less necessary than you think. Also, let's be honest - prisons are sieves anyway for things like mobile phones, drugs and weapons. And it doesn't prevent prisoners from harming each other or staff. 3) Scott specifically says prisons designed to reform & punish. I haven't read those codes but I imagine they're more on the punishing side. I know in England they had debtors prisons in the Middle Ages, but their purpose was to ensure the prisoner paid up (and more). It's the reform part that's new.

[@Victor-tl4dk]

My mom told me how in Poland, I'm pretty sure she was told this, 'localities' used to have no 'officers' and people would be fine. It was a community thing. And it's funny the way she made it clear to me that people back then would laugh at the idea of hiring someone to 'police themselves' around... ironically just how some are laughing here about having no 'prisons...'

[@thespeculativemusician]

Well that’s the problem, we still use the Hammurabi code as the basis of ‘justice’, he live in the Stone Age still in regards to the ‘prison system’

[@harshalbhanarkar]

Interesting topic!! Keep it up 👍👍

[@bbcideas]

Thanks so much for watching and for the positive feedback! 👍

[@pranavkarthik9250]

An fantastic video. Props to the animation team especially!

[@Sameoldfitup]

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

[@harrybudgeiv349]

how do we reconcile giving criminals second chances when people don't feel safe around violent felons?

[@maddisocute7]

idk rehabilitation centers

[@lamborghinicentenario2497]

Living in fairyland ​@@maddisocute7

[@thespeculativemusician]

@@maddisocute7 that and also using lots of tax money to first prevent children to develop into criminals, it’s easy

[@quartoacelino]

2:33 Where?

[@squimbles9656]

The concurrent problems facing society is opinions tbh. And the irony sets in because this is literally an opinion in itself 😂... But until we acc start listening to science and true data, we'll never find justice. Great video, keep up the good work!

[@KittySnicker]

That would be anarchy. I don’t want murderers and rapists out and about.

[@Boahemaa]

they already are

[@zrok193]

@@Boahemaa no they're not, if they got cough they are sent to prison

[@Rafi0421]

@@zrok193 I think the person might be talking about potential criminals and also the ones that weren't caught.

[@liamlyons8355]

@@zrok193 not true especially for rapists in the uk

[@liamlyons8355]

@@zrok193 not true especially for rapists in the uk

[@skeuomorvis8606]

Wowie! The animation!

[@PraveenSrJ01]

I learned a lot about prisons 21 years ago in my social problems class at Wake Technical Community College and visited Central Prison in my class back in April 2002.

[@elguerojusticiero]

I think a world without prisons is an end not a means.

[@mentalmachete2273]

John Gotti, Lucky Luciano and Al Capone approves this message.

[@nodji678]

Allow us the community to raise our kids. Farm are food as a community, take away money and the value of gold so that eliminates jealousy. Free healthcare so we all live as equals we play our role in society and there’s no reason for someone to commit crime. Peace

[@l-kin3480]

Vigilante justice would come back

[@thespeculativemusician]

It isn’t much different to the ‘prison system’ in the fact that both are simply based on ‘vengeance’ as a principle, we can prevent children from becoming criminals, it’s easy but! People don’t like to think

[@clubsandwich559]

incredible video

[@user-221i]

El salvador solved it's problem by opposite of this.

[@johnbrooker6134]

For MOST people prison is a deterrent. It certainly keeps me from ramming people with my car when they do something monumentally stupid or just plain selfish.. It keeps most drug addicts from robbing someone walking down the street. Or from kidnapping our children. Too many things would have to change about humanity in general for this to ever work.

[@phillipaldermaston]

Yeah, and note that people who WOULD commit a crime but are deterred by the possibility of prison. are....deterred. So the only people that show up in the data are people who AREN'T deterred by prison.

[@Victor-tl4dk]

I feel that deterrents of fear are more for animals than humans. Heck, 'we' don't even treat most 'animals' that way anymore. and the real 'criminals' are hiding pretty 'cleverly.' An 'easy' 'example' is the 'state-sanctioned murderer,' Putin. That doesn't mean two wrongs make a right, but I think 99% of prisoners 'need not' be 'prisoners.'

[@thespeculativemusician]

Despite I don’t like prisons as a justice system, this is a good point

[@searose6192]

"Just because we don't have the answers yet, that mustn't stop us" ....actually, yes it must stop us.

[@LPB25880]

I wish this didn’t have music

[@jamilsalih9724]

This is dumbest idea ever. It comes from the type of people that think scolding ones child for hitting their younger sibling is child abuse.

[@alicec1533]

Yes. Yes it is.

[@muruganpadhai]

Funny but criminals becomes stuffed and powerful persons in the world

[@muruganpadhai]

@Stephen Robinson because I know what are looking bro

[@caralhoguy]

@@muruganpadhai haha the government is the real criminal

[@LewisMcminn-lz6zc]

Can someone tell me what is a limitation of the video, like what does it fail to do?

[@MrMarkcooldude]

Sound quality was not upto the level in this video.

[@senrab107]

First priority is not to get caught next time.

[@crazy_tillg981]

Fortunately, there will never be a world in which prisons are abolished. :)

[@Victor-tl4dk]

there already was one, and people were fine most of the time :-)

[@TriumphantArk]

Though you might have utopia ideas without prison or with prison, it will not work in either case. Those of immoral ways is like those who can't see it is like night time, they can not see what stumbles them. Do not fret over the rise of those who do wrong. For soon enough they are not found anymore for there own sins distroy themselves and this is what justice is. Depart from evil ways yourself and live. Message from one who follows the Triumphant Ark to live.

[@alicialandis3288]

Tell me should we live in a world without prisons if crimes didnt exist or just accept the fact?

[@crepuscula5734]

well this just was as entertaining as a good film noir !

[@OTCRSA]

This is balls.

[@alrex123]

Why?

[@NationalMutualist]

A world without prisons would be fantastic. Prisons are just as obsolete as dungeons.

[@jimziemer9826]

If people quit committing crimes, we would not need them. Until then, we still need prisons. There are some people that are just too dangerous to be in society.

[@caralhoguy]

They are modern day dungeons

[@alicialandis3288]

​@@jimziemer9826By the way, do you know where they should take them to? Plz respond

[@쉿-h3c]

1:20

[@fender0942]

Welcome to fantasyland. Population….this guy.

[@fractalign]

I’m all for prison abolition, as long violent offenders can be rehoused in other maximum security environments such as big pharma labs or labour camps to be commodified for the benefits of the community.

[@hdudidi]

WTF is wrong with you

[@jrotela]

Thats still a prison with another name

[@michaelregis1015]

This is literally how American prisons work. What you just described is carceral slavery, which is protected under their 13th Ammendment. Also, if you commodify prisons for that purpose, and it essentially becomes a business, and all capitalist businesses need growth for them to survive, wouldn't just be incentivising prisons to have a continuous surplus of punitive labourers? That's a rhetorical question because that's exactly what has and is continually happening in the US. Crime has been going down in the US while the prison population keeps expanding. It's not a wonder why America houses 22% of the world's prison population while only being 5% of the world population.

[@senrab107]

Very dangerous and many unemployed prison officers and shortage of car registration plates

[@JohnAndy-r2i]

Judge: are you going to do it again... Drug addict: yes... Judge: Ok, you are free to go.

[@handicappuccino8491]

Maybe we can rewire someone’s brain to feel remorse about something they wouldn’t otherwise in the future

[@Hannah-y2z]

clockwork orange

[@handicappuccino8491]

@@Hannah-y2z Open AIshould work in tandem with open bionics to create the best criminal justice system that I could ever be

[@yeshua_base64]

To be progressive 😊🦄❤️🌈

[@mbapum6363]

We should make Jordan Peterson watch this. He will start crying in a corner

[@senrab107]

No alternative accommodation for Trump and friends 2021-2040

[@MarcelinoDanielsson-le4mz]

A segregated world.

[@murdoch3396]

Animation = A+ Idea = D-

[@Victor-tl4dk]

Idea = A

[@TheHologram3299]

Delusional

[@Kat-PM]

That’s what they said about abolishing slavery. “It’s too important to the economy” “It’s always been this way, there’s no way society would work without it”

[@phillipaldermaston]

@@Kat-PM No, the answer to at least chattel slavery was "pay them a fair wage." The equivalent would have been the slavery abolitionists calling their cause "abolish all labour for others" to which... "Well, I have all this space and not enough time but plenty of money - what do you propose I do instead of hiring people?" is actually a valid objection.

[@jrotela]

​@@Kat-PMNo, becouse they were people subjected to an inhuman way of "work". Not punished for crimes, what ever crimes. Not the same thing, you are comparing apples with pears