What Writers Get Wrong About Conflict - Troy DeVolld

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Producer Troy DeVolld, widely regarded as a leading authority on the reality television production process, boasts some four dozen credits spanning THE OSBOURNES to Food Network's BIG BAD BUDGET BATTLE and bestselling books REALITY TV: AN INSIDER'S GUIDE TO TELEVISION'S HOTTEST MARKET and AND ANOTHER THING: A BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO THE TELEVISION NOTES PROCESS. He's contributed to or been quoted in publications like TIME and NEWSWEEK and been seen on TODAY and SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. He's a 1996 graduate of Full Sail University and the ninth inductee into its Hall of Fame.
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[@NIMPAK1]

One thing that annoys me is when the villain has to be connected with the protagonist in some way, like they killed the protagonist's parents or girlfriend or something. While it may make things more "personal", it often comes off as hackneyed. Though I guess it's also not a true conflict since it can't be resolved by defeating the villain since that can't undo their grief. Conflict comes from something that disturbs the status quo and the protagonist either has to return things to the status quo, learn to live with the new status quo or create a new status quo.

[@trorisk]

Agree. It's not originally that the antagonist and the protagonist should be connected but it's by their goal. Or I would rather say that the Villain and the hero must have opposite goals. That both cannot acheve. For example, the hero has to delivers the princess he loves. While the villain kidnapped her and forces her to marry him in order to inherit the kingdom. That's a perfect and easy personal conflict.

[@ojodealfred]

@@trorisk the conflict becomes great when the protagonist and antagonist eye for the same goal says John Truby

[@Tawny593]

Yes. Can't stand that.

[@jimjo8541]

I mean, I’d say all the movies I like have them connected in SOME way. Otherwise, the villain wouldn’t be the villain in that story. It would just be an entity existing outside the story since it has no impact on the protagonist. It doesn’t have to be a deeply personal connection. In “No Country For Old Men”, one of the protagonists never meets the main villain, but they represent different moral codes.

[@MarkLewis...]

Conflict can be many things. An undesired disruption to the status quo, (peace to war) a desired disruption to the status quo, (a lifetime of strife to achieved abundance) or any dislike, to any degree to experienced stimuli. Now... to correct the answer to the opening question, of course all elements in the story matter, even if a story is written without conflict. Conflict does not give 'meaning' to elements or life... it gives them greater purpose. You (the reader) are not defined by your 'conflict', it just gives you cause to act or not act... So, (rhetorically) why on Earth would a story of life be defined that way, no matter how to the abstract? Well, it wouldn't or shouldn't. Write YOUR story... not theirs.

[@nuclearsimian3281]

One of the best conflicts from a TV series is with Gul Dukat in ST: DS9. He spends the entire series hammering away on this drum that he's right, he wasn't to blame, he was doing the right thing, he saved people who otherwise would have died, and the entire time, we are shown repeatedly, no. He is _not_ in the right, no matter what he believes, but we can see the views that he refuses to acknowledge, we have knowledge he doesn't, and that builds the conflict through continually keeping resentment alive between the characters that are heroic and the protagonists, and keeps Dukat as the antagonist, and we even go through an arc with him where his character is dramatically more humanized and he shows his character in much more humble moments. He's still a person that cares about his family, his _whole_ family, and then, even when we are shown his motivations, his desires, we are still reaffirmed in our belief as the audience that he is without question evil, down to his core. A small pattern of good actions amongst thousands of minor, petty, or egregious evils, does not nullify the evil ones. That's what drives the conflict between the DS9 crew, and Dukat for six seasons, then...it kinda goes off the deep end when Dukat finally accepts and acknowledges his own villany that he's been covering up, and he goes insane basically. Wonderful character arc, best villain Trek has ever, or will ever have.

[@steveleeart]

Michael Piller, who created DS9, was an amazing writer who understood the importance of having strong characters. Conflict on his Trek episodes was always rooted in who the characters were, their wants, beliefs and desires. The writers on DS9 understood this too - like Ira Stephen Behr and Ron D Moore among others. Moore and several other DS9 writers would go on to lead the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, and Moore recorded episode commentaries for almost every episode and it’s a masterclass in writing long form television, and television production.

[@callinglast]

As a writer the best way to create a story is write the first draft from the villain's perspective. Write the story of the villain...get to know who they are and their motivations... On the second and third and fourth draft then bring in the hero.

[@salcangemi3762]

That’s gold!

[@chasehedges6775]

A conflict has to stem from something or someone that affects the main protagonist/character in a story.

[@MarkLewis...]

Really? What of Peter Jackson's take on The LotR? A movie filled with McGuffins on both sides of the moral dichotomy, all for the ultimate McGuffin, the ring of power. The trilogy doesn't have a "main protagonist". It could be argued that all the characters on the side of "good" are equally all the protagonists, playing specific and crucial synergetic roles to achieve triumph over all of the many antagonists, "evil". We care about all of them, but they are all just plot triggers.

[@Lilliathi]

@@MarkLewis... McGuffins aren't a bad thing, just overused. Frodo is pretty clearly the main character and Sauron is obviously the main villain, though it does border on an ensemble cast. The conflict in LotR comes from Sauron and his ring, which very clearly affect Frodo.

[@MarkLewis...]

@@Lilliathi okay... Think whatever you like.

[@Lilliathi]

@@MarkLewis... Great response.

[@MarkLewis...]

@@Lilliathi I detect sarcasm in your last retort. Interpretations (especially of movies) are (highly) subjective. Neither of us is right or wrong... you disagree with my opinion on the LoTR... Ok. I didn't know you wanted to argue about it... Does this mean we're dating now?

[@BionicDance]

I don't _want_ to leave a theater crying. I want to leave a theater walking on air.

[@troydevolld9793]

I don't mind a nice feel-good, funny film, either.

[@BionicDance]

@@troydevolld9793 For me, movies are escapism. The real world is bad enough; when I watch a movie and I feel worse when it's over compared to when it started, it wasn't the movie for me.

[@troydevolld9793]

@@BionicDance Even feel-good movies have tension and conflict. I get what you like about upbeat films, but even comedies have the stuff. Paul Rudd in THIS IS 40 is about to lose his house (and maybe his marriage) because his independent record label is failing, even as he bets it all on a fading act.

[@BionicDance]

@@troydevolld9793 I never denied _that._ I just prefer a happy ending, is all. I want to leave the theater feeling better than when I went in.

[@troydevolld9793]

@@BionicDance Any favorites?

[@dr_tachi]

I love this...Troy is brilliance personified!

[@troydevolld9793]

Too kind.

[@trorisk]

There are at least 2 types of conflicts. The general conflict in the story. And in every scene there is a conflict. Here he talks about the general story. But what I think the hard one is the every scene conflict to not appear artificial. When you have characters who argue about nothing you feel that it is artificial. But look at the beginning of The Sword in the Stone. When Arthur goes to get the arrow. There is a conflict between the wolf and Arthur, of which Arthur has no idea. That's smart.

[@troydevolld9793]

Good take. Totally agree with that great example!

[@DanielAdjeifilms]

Thank you. I have to watch this couple of times. Great information

[@troydevolld9793]

Glad you found it useful.

[@mattyman5dodge101]

I've watched a ton of these - that was the most useful one of all.

[@troydevolld9793]

Appreciate the kind words. FilmCourage really does a great job with these.

[@dherman0001]

Jeopardy, or risk are what you're looking for, conflict is a way to achieve that sense of jeopardy.

[@chasehedges6775]

Tension and suspense as well

[@dherman0001]

@@chasehedges6775 Which are products of jeopardy.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@dherman0001 👍

[@troydevolld9793]

As the suits always say, "Stakes! More stakes! What's at stake? Stakety stake stake stakes!"

[@Pterodactyl_Bret]

Thank you for the video.

[@ccwoodlands1565]

I think Michael Hauge said, “All stories are about one thing, conflict”

[@JetForceFive]

My favorite style of conflict are multiple flawed characters, mostly unconnected, aiming for the same goal with different motivations. Some fall short, but win in another way. Some cheat to win. I just like the idea of regular people becoming a hero or villain later in the story because they are under pressure. Add in some beats that lead me to think certain characters might be leaning good or evil, then validate some, swerve others, etc. Just a personal preference that is more subtle than white hat/black hat.

[@steveleeart]

Conflict rooted in who the characters are, what drives the characters, what’s true to the characters.

[@rmglover3191]

For having transcended, Neo was nigh unstoppable in Matrix 2. So they made distance (time) his enemy a la highway rescue. Now realizing whole movie was a ticking clock.

[@Ethereal311]

Honestly, there has to be some German compound word like Schadenfreude or something to describe what we mean by "Conflict" because it's honestly such a bad word to describe the meaning.

[@AricaAngelo]

So insightful and brilliant Troy!

[@troydevolld9793]

Says the newly-minted Bravo reality star. Looking forward!

[@julius-stark]

I really hate forced conflict. When it's like, "we need these characters to be mad at each other so let's have them argue or someone say something really stupid even though they have not acted like this previously". Aside from that, the conflict should be in direct opposite to what your character stands for. If your character is a vegan, then they should be put in a situation where they must eat meat to survive. If they pride themselves on telling the truth, they must be put into a situation where lying would be the more humane thing to do. Once you figure out who your characters are it should be easy to set up conflict for them and build the plot around that conflict.

[@yourmum69_420]

true

[@SymphoniasStories]

So insightful!

[@troydevolld9793]

Thanks. FILM COURAGE always knows how to draw the best from its guests with thoughtful questions.

[@primarybufferpanel9939]

Not sure ehat the problem is with the word conflict, but is people don't like it maybe discord could be used. Ultimately each character wants harmony to exist between themselves and issue (be it internal or external) but discordance disturbs that until it is eliminated/resolved.

[@user-oh8zr6hz5c]

amazing and insifghtful thanks helped me a lot

[@filmcourage]

Glad it helped!

[@scotth5893]

Super thought-provoking. I love how there isn't a sharp division between narrative and non-fiction/reality. Good storytelling is good storytelling.

[@troydevolld9793]

Been saying this for years. Good reality tv mimics good scripted, structurally. More on that some other day.

[@AdelaideBen1]

So I love watching these short (edited) interviews in general... and while I agree that all good stories/movies need "tension", I don't agree all good movies need to be expressed through some traumatic wound, or that the audience needs to cry... writers need to know their audience, and the product, and also (IMO) provide people with a framework to build on their own experience. One of the most emotive films I saw (for me) was a movie about a blind chinese harpist in the middle of some (almost) fantasy version of China dealing with love lost. It had almost nothing that I could relate directly to, but it had a framework that I could adorn my own feelings and fears to, and so better engage with the story. I would say the best writing is where you allow people to adapt the story to themselves, rather than tell people how to feel through deep character introspection. But what do I know. Edit - and the OCD example is instructive to a point, but it also is a bad example of tension... yes, the person has a need, but the real tension is between the needs/expectations of people, not the frustration of a single person. The tension is lost because for most people the framework is missing... for most people there needs to be compromise. People deal everyday with people that have uncoupled needs to their own - that's not conflict, that's just being a pain-in-the-arse (for 90% of the audience). The more interesting tension (IMO) comes from someone that knows it's better to just satisfy that need - but they are faced with some conflict where it comes at a cost. That's stakes.The villain in the example that was given, isn't the person "flipping out" because they didn't get what they needed - it's that the audience is torn, frustrated, wanting to shake either person... not knowing what they would do. That's tension. That's OUR tension.

[@troydevolld9793]

Ben, good observations. I apply the term wound rather broadly. Loneliness is a wound. Unrequited love is a wound. Missing your shot at greatness is a wound. We do love to see ourselves reflected in the protagonist, and those feelings are universal. We don't have to feel sorry for the protagonist, but their motivation to push on needs to be relatable for us to invest in the story with ourselves, on some level, in their shoes.

[@CamRebires]

This channel is GOLD, the interviewer does a great job and the people you have on say mind-blowing sh*t sometimes

[@troydevolld9793]

The most thoughtful questions I've been asked in ages. Film Courage rocks.

[@CamRebires]

@@troydevolld9793 You too man, you too

[@Hyplum]

Interesting

[@ScaryStoriesNYC]

He says he's bored by James Bond movies but then describes the plot of the most recent one? I can't watch Bond movies because I'm having a CONFLICT with TIME.

[@jamesdewane1642]

He's staying abreast of developments in his field. He could have read a two sentences precis

[@jamesdewane1642]

The next Bond film should have Bond trying and failing to prevent destruction of Nordstream. Then through a lot of convoluted bs he's made to take the blame for it, and handed over to Russia for trial so that he's in position in Moscow to eff up Russian air defense when NATO uncorks on Russia. But they have to make this film before this spring, cuz by then the documentarians will be working on it.

[@Ruylopez778]

@@jamesdewane1642 Bond trying to prevent destruction of the Nordstream? Are you trying to imply that Russia would have damaged its own pipeline instead of just turning it off....? Just ask yourself which parties will stand to gain from Europe being reliant on US oil/gas, because Rice was talking about wanting to sell US oil/gas to Europe back in 2014... Did people really learn nothing from Afghanistan, Iraq & Syria?

[@jamesdewane1642]

@@Ruylopez778 No, of course not. For the purposes of the movie, Bond thinks he's trying to prevent a Russian op, but we'll let the audience see it's an Anerican/Brit op long before Bond figures it out. He has to feel real rage and betrayal when they turn him over to Russia. Then he gets his faith and purpose renewed when a British mole contacts him in Russian prison and gives him new orders. Of course she's been living in Russia for at least a decade, her Russian army officer husband was killed early in the Ukraine invasion, she has two adorable kids, Bond falls in love with her, and she and her kids die when NATO attacks.

[@jamesdewane1642]

@@Ruylopez778 Or maybe we'll let the boy live. Bond as single father hasn't been tried yet, has it? New franchise: Bond and Son

[@tarunbhatt8322]

Upload complete interview

[@filmcourage]

It’s coming!

[@RyanNagy]

Jan Crisante? at :44. I cannot seem to find the name on Google or Amazon. Can you verify the spelling?

[@filmcourage]

Jen Grisanti - kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnavZYSNhN-ebZo

[@elnisdjcheco]

This man is intelligent smart interesting deep genius and then some

[@websitekit682]

Hi, this is an out of topic question. When submitting script to agents, is it a good idea to send your script to more than one agents? Thanks

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

If it's copywriter then I don't see why you wouldn't send it to more than just one. That would be like a merchant selling his wares to just one customer.

[@filmcourage]

What do writers get writers get wrong with conflict?

[@Umbran]

By possibly not making it organic conflict. I think organic conflict like Troy said has to be true to the character, their motivations, and goals. We should be able to feel that the conflict is working, and makes sense for the character/characters. Another factor is also the audience's investment in the character, I think if organic conflict is established, it helps the audience stay invested.

[@wilpuriarts5895]

Forced drama. A team of space adventurers fightic against a cosmic horde of ancient robots is enough. There is no need for everyone to have love troubles, drug problems and gambling debt. There can be some of that, but it’s much more interesting if the characters are focused on the freakin’ horde of ancient robots.

[@troydevolld9793]

@@wilpuriarts5895 But a layer of something deeper could elevate that kind of picture, no? I'm reminded of the brilliance of GOTG2 that has so much relatable father/son, sibling and identity conflict. Gunn is a masterful writer, IMO. The John Hughes of his genre because everybody feels real. If we didn't care about them and they just blew stuff up, it'd be fun, but we'd forget it by the time we got back to the car.

[@wilpuriarts5895]

@@troydevolld9793 It could. Or it could drag it down. GOTG2 is an interesting example. To me it’s a bit excessive and unfocused, but that is Gunn’s forte so he makes it work. With lesser creative team the end result is Stargåte Universe. So much soap opera that the actual story doesn’t have room to go forward.

[@roathripper]

thanks for the spoiler. so bond has a daughter. just brilliant.

[@cannibalzombiechrist]

he also dies.

[@jamesdewane1642]

And the thing is a big bore

[@trinelangohr6661]

Bah, in the books he has a son. Who cares at this point.

[@roathripper]

@@trinelangohr6661 only people like ME who haven't read the novels, nor watched the movie they were so looking forward too which had been delayed endlessly due to COVID!

[@yourmum69_420]

@@roathripper new bond sucks

[@conradgarcia6874]

The Western narrative is predominantly conflict driven. The lack of conflict isn't coherent to both the artist and the audience. There are stories around the world and throughout history that contain no conflict. There's Kishōtenketsu, a japanese narrative structure. Aesop fables and Jataka Tales are more instructive, pedagogy driven than conflict driven. The oldest story known: the Cosmic hunt where the story is when the hunters killed certain group of animals, the dead animals transmigrated to become the constellations. The art of telling a story is a sandbox. Conflict isn't a rule. It's only one of the elements in making a story.

[@troydevolld9793]

Thank you for this insight. I'd not considered it prior to this interview.

[@TuanVu-yp8rh]

If CONFLICT is not really a conflict. why use the term CONFLICT in the first place?

[@jammiebooker6489]

How about the word tension?

[@Fruitloop30]

I have a theory the interview is Laura Linny. Just based off voice haha

[@matthewpaul6904]

Unless you're Disney. Then a surprise villain is unpopular.

[@gvphdYT]

Even baby landmines take off appendages - build towards the Hydrogen bomb.

[@aliabbasrajani2499]

Hello, it is my humble request to make a detailed video on screenplay formatting. Like from page one to last page. I have a completed everything for the story but doesn't know enough formatting.... I am begging for acceptance of this request... Please... ❤️

[@troydevolld9793]

MWP, the same people who publish my book on reality tv, have a title called THE HOLLYWOOD STANDARD that might be helpful to you.

[@Tawny593]

Conflict drives the story.

[@obi-wanjabronii]

This came at a perfect time for me goddamn

[@jammiebooker6489]

Very helpful Troy and Crew! I like how you described the conflict and it being connected to the wound. I also like that you explained conflict as being more than just blatant visible conflict (fighting and yelling) and opened the door to more subtle forms of conflict, like tensions between the charaters and their environment. It seems like "pushing the buttons" of your charaters through triggers of their emotional wounds helps keep the tension in the story, which can then build up to a big physical/verbal outburst of conflict. Makes the charaters more relatable too....we know the deeper meaning there and why the charater reacts so strongly to a trigger that might seem like an over reaction to anyone else without that information.