Bypass Valve in Twincharged system - what I used as bypass valve in my AE82 4agzte and how it works

[@briankuhn7396]

This was posted 10 yrs ago, and people are still finding it useful! Thank you!

[@deanbassist01]

Man, you clear up so much forum BS with your vids, thanks for taking the time to talk about your setup, show us some more, love the car, love the twincharging, love the 4age, and i love your 4agzte. Some vids with higher quality sound of the car would be awesome. Great job with everything man.

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

thanks. check outthis vid Twincharger sounds - 4agzte - twincharged corolla AE82/FXGT/FX16 and also dyno vid Twincharged Corolla AE82 on dyno - 4agzte - FXGT/FX16 for sound.

[@MrMakro86]

Great video! Very effective setup. I am doing something similar (as previously mentioned in another comment) with a Nissan (Hitachi) throttle body. My setup is a bit different, the turbo is feeding the supercharger and the throttle body will be bypassing the supercharger based on a table in the standalone. The standalone table (based on throttle position and RPM) gives a "open %" number to a micro-controller (Arduino) which then controls the throttle body through a H-bridge, utilizing all 6 pins of the throttle body. I'll try to create a video on it in the near future. This way should hopefully allow a smooth transition from supercharger to turbocharger, however it seems that you can't notice it in your system at all, although the arrangement of the supercharger and turbocharger have a big impact on the transition, more so in my setup. If anybody is interested in doing this then let me know, it's not as hard as it may seem.

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

good info man thanks for sharing. Let us know how things will work out that way. Wonder if you will also be able to hear sc through open throttle. Do you have build thread?

[@MrMakro86]

WhatIsMyNameDamnIt facebook.com/SR20VETS I am still a few months away from having the new setup running, however I'm updating my build page as often as possible. Yeah I've been wondering about the noise of the supercharger as well. It has to travel through the turbine, intake piping and pod filter to escape, so I'm hoping it won't be too bad. If it is, ah well... the more noise the better I say!

[@MrMakro86]

WhatIsMyNameDamnIt facebook.com/photo.php?v=520003434763660

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

Matt Kroupa nice man ! Its actually same thing with this nissan TB. I am sure all pins could be used to achieve progress opening like in your case but in my case it was just not needed. I will be checking your facebook man :-) keep it up.

[@MrMakro86]

+WhatIsMyNameDamnIt yeah thought it might have been the same TB... Came off a Nissan Primera P12... SR20VE engine. I will let you know results for sure. Out of curiosity, are you running a MAF or MAP tune? If MAF.. Where abouts is it ?

[@superhyphy129]

OMG THE SOUNDS AT THE END. YES.

[@that5what5he5aid]

I LOVE THAT SOUND AT THE END!

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

hehe absolutely also my favourite note :-)

[@treborp7331]

hello! first off, thanks for the explanation! you have cleared up a lot of information for me, my question as stupid as it sounds, is: how do you get the car to communicate that you want the sc disengaged and throttle body open? is it done through chips or pressure valves?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

hey man. Chips. I just disengage sc and open bvalve at certain rpms. Its slightly above 5k rpms. standalone simply performs these operations at set rpms. the "turnover" is really smooth - you dont feel it.

[@treborp7331]

WhatIsMyNameDamnIt Ah thank you very much!

[@SonOfAnarchyZA]

Awesome thanks for the info really helpful!!!!

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

glad it helped man

[@olivert133]

@@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt hey man, what rpm activated switch are you using on this car?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

@@olivert133 not sure what you mean. SA ECU turns signals depending on rpms. It is all configurable. EMU classic SA ECU.

[@olivert133]

This is how you open the throttle body and turn off the supercharger?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

@@olivert133 emu signals 1. electromagnetic clutch on sc to turn off and 2. relay to direct current to electric throttle body (which acts as bypass valve) to open. When it happens is configurable in ECU. In this case it was triggered at specific rpms.

[@bhearts77]

i know that the eaton chargers have a bypass valve built in. i plan on running my setup backwards of yours though, turbo into supercharger, and opening up the bypass of the supercharger at set total boost level, like 15 from supercharger, and 25 from the turbo. when the supercharger bypass valve is open, in theory it shouldnt make boost. but it possible it might at 2-4 total. base turbo boost off manifold boost,

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

yeah I think MINIs had these SCs. Could be a good idea. Got it working?

[@BuffMyRadius]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the Mini bypass valve is referenced to atmospheric pressure so it stays open when the supercharger isn't making boost because the supercharger essentially blocks air from getting into the intake manifold at low RPM. It shuts when the intake manifold hits atmospheric pressure to hold in the boost.

[@rageu]

AWESOME!! that was a good one, thank you

[@neogeoveniteo4690]

Wow, thanks for the video, i'm a big fan of twincharged cars ( i fell in love with the sound of the delta s4 and i have to admit also you car has a pretty fucking awesome domoniac sound ) in the future i would probably twincharge a rotary ( i know , it's a dirty work, but someone has to do it 😉 ) but i want two completely separate systems, so 2 intercooler , one just right in the middle of engine and the supercharger and another one for the turbo system, any advice on how switch from a system to another? Maybe a very similar configuration as yours would work, what do you think?

[@ramonmolina1695]

Awesome setup.

[@gtti89]

great video! thanks so much for sharing information that you have worked hard to find out for yourself :)

[@racingriaanb8292]

thanks for all the info

[@VetalK]

Thanks for the video and ideas. However I want a bit different system and for that I need electronic valve that would be OPEN when not energized. Do you know if Nissan throttle can be converted to normally open?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

Nissan Throttle has spring inside that closes it if electric motor is not opening it (i think each tb has string to shut valve with enough force). To keep it open you would have to keep the signal flowing constantly which i think could work since its throttle body and was design to be in constant use for years but in my book that would wear the tb motor fast.

[@AlexR2648]

VetalK You could just use a NOT logic gate.

[@charlesmccoy1448]

In a previous video you said you had a nissan intake on the engine what motor is it from I'm wanting to do a twin charged 4age did some research on 4age and the one you have is air port size difference

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

I think I said I have "nissan-like" intake manifold since its custom made but similar to intakes that are on sr nissan engines. here is the photo of when it was made cultrides.com/test/GT4/twincharge/tb2.jpg

[@tonyfranklin5364]

hi there , that's a very nice set up you have ..could you tell me how the fmic is plumbed in .I've got a 4agte with a 5th injector plumbed into the piping just before tvis...also what intake manifold are you using thanks

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

Hi intake manifold is custom made check out link in vids description to forum thread it contains all pics. The piping and where fmic is air box->supercharger->bypass valve(with air cone)-> turbo->fmic->intake manifold (with tb)

[@vyper133]

Good job. I'm in process of twincharge mi Lancia Dedra Integrale. Did you use a bypass valve for supercharger or only blow off valve and Nissan valve for both turbo and supercharger? Really you have great dyno numbers. Your engine will be very happy :)

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

Nissan valve was used to provide free non limited air to just turbo (it sort of skipped supercharger). When it was open supercharger was out of the system and disengaged to to drag power from the engine. Blow off was still there in a traditional way (after turbo). Fingers crossed for your project.

[@taupuhitoki3438]

Man I really wanna get this done on my car but no one wants to do it in New Zealand. What the tuning side like?

[@shipkiller6666]

How is the reliability and longevity on that murano throttle body? won't it burn out the motor long term by always being fed 12V ?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

I used this setup 4 years and never had problems with it. I have sold the whole setup and person who is using it now still uses same tb and no problems. Those tbs should withstand it with no sweat - in normal use (so as actual throttle body in normal car) such throttle body will receive much more punishment and should take it without complaining for more than 15 years of constant use. I was prepared as I bought spare one just in case - never had to use it thought. It works.

[@Mrcrowntown]

Love the ingenuity! are you using a roots type blower?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

yeah it standard toyota roots blower sc12. If it breaks i would go with something from eaton (m62 perhaps with mgnetic clutch would be probably 1-1 replacement with some piping mods)

[@e34boat88]

one more question is what do i type into ebay so i can find that throttlebody?

[@wefwefwef.]

your vids have been really interesting to me, I'm planning to use the same sc12 clutched supercharger on a 4efte in my starlet, one thing that I've been wondering though, when you lift off the throttle and the turbo's boost drops below whatever the supercharger is turned off, is the engines rpm affected at all by the supercharger coming back on? or does it only run when a certain amount of throttle is applied?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

yes the sc kicks in when throttle is more than 50% open and it works till certain rmps. there are many scenarios depending at what range of rmps you ease on throttle and how much but during each of these car behaves as if you operated on big n/a engine - it immidiately pulls again when you step on it. rpm is not affected and also there is no unexpected driving experience of any sort.

[@wefwefwef.]

WhatIsMyNameDamnIt cheers for the reply, is the magnetic clutch is operated by something like a microswitch on the throttlebody or something then, or something more sophisticated?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

James Beckett its operated directly by computer (ecumaster EMU standalone)

[@DudeBook92]

I’ve watched this video a few times now and realize that it’s decently old now. But couldn’t you just use a relay with the super charger clutch to limit the work or thinking? Maybe something like a relay with a single pole, double throw. Not quite sure how it could be done or in that is what really is being done, but just a thought.

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

You mean to open bypass valve and stop sc with one signal?

[@DudeBook92]

Yes. That exactly.

[@e34boat88]

what if i have supercharger with no clutch and only use the bypass method? will the supercharger still drain power from the engine or does it just run freely because it does not need to generate any boost?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

spooling insides of sc requires force so i think it will still be a parasite.

[@e34boat88]

@@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt where can i find s/c with clutch? only thing i found was eaton m65 from mersedes. thanks for the help

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

@@e34boat88 Eaton m62s, some mini coopers had sc with clutch, I had toyota SC12 supercharger with clutch. Pretty sure there are also more options.

[@DarkForest86]

How do you disengage the supercharger with a clutch. I have never seen what that looks like.

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

sc has electromagnetic clutch. You operate electromagnetic clutch by voltage which you can provide from your car electrit grid through relay. You operate relay from your computer. Perhaps you could connect cluctch directly to your computer - it just depends what input/outputs your computer offers.

[@DarkForest86]

Wow amazing

[@charlesmccoy1448]

What is the ecu that you are using I have an ae82 myself? Also will this set up work on the 4age itself with these modifications

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

Ecumaster EMU standalone

[@thathondadude5974]

what aftermarket ecu can control both the by pass valve and supercharger

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

+cypronie nelson I use Ecumaster EMU unit. here example link ecumasterusa.com/shop/ecumaster-emu/

[@orbisonfamilyvlog9946]

Where does the air from the supercharger go once the valve closes?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

when the bypass valve opens sc is disengaged. If it was still running it would be pumping air to atmosphere - opened bypass valve means that the intake becomes open to atmosphere (bypass valve opens hole in it) allowing turbo to suck as much as it likes without sc being restriction. When bypass valve is closed (its default state) sc blows into turbo.

[@thathondadude5974]

how do you get the by pass valve to open when the supercharger turns off??

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

+cypronie nelson sa ecu operates all signals. In proper time ecu turns off sc (by turning off its magnetic clutch) and opens bypass valve by signaling relay which engages the bypass valve.

[@charlesmccoy1448]

Thanks

[@abec666]

Can you just use a blow off valve that opens whtn the turbo creates enough vacum?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

blow off valve? to suck air? Not sure what you mean. I was thinking about using vacum operated throttle body but it would have some drawbacks: - vacum operated so there is limited way you can tune its operation to your needs. With electronic valve and SA with enought outputs you can do just about anything depending on signals etc. I imagine that it might turn out that when valve opens on proper vacuum it actually is too early to maintain turbo spool and then you would have power drop on switch (which could also cause valve close). Just seems a bit problematic to setup/find proper fitting components .. but when all pieces fit and work correctly then why not. I have not found working example basing on vacuum switch when i was thinking about my system - just some ideas and started but not yet working projects. There are also superchargers with built in bypass valves like eatons in MINI's (I belive it was mentioned in comments somewhere below). Maybe that would be worth a try.

[@abec666]

I just saw your reply im sorry. What i mean is that my old blow off was open at idle on my B16 because the vaccum was overcoming the spring force that was keepingthe blow off close. The same way as turbo swallowing capability bypasses the cfm Supercharger is capable off vaccum will be created. This vaccum would keep the blow off open exactly like a vaccum throttlebody but more gradually. At the same time you can use a wastegate on the same charge pipe, that opens at lets say 15 psi to help the air flow feeding the turbo AND making the supercharger freespin not stealing power. If your supercharger makes lets say 8 psi setting the wastegate to open at lets say 15psi we are sure that the wastegate will never open before the turbo is 100% on because the supercharger will never make 15psi alone :) Both systems will be open to atmospher with some air filter on them. What do you think?

[@jameelhilal220]

well .. what if I use a big ass pro charger that pumps air into a big single turbo instead of pumping it into the engine, wouldn’t it create a wide range in boost ?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

I have never seen twincharge system with procharger, Can procharger be tuned off or does it run permanently? Since it is belt driven the idea is to disengage sc not to put drag on engine in higher rpms. This is why there is magnetic clucth in sc. Not sure if same can be applied to procharger.

[@agentcarbunkle]

Does the engine need to have forged conrods and pistons for the boost from the combined super charger and turbo?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

does not matter if this is just turbo/sc or twincharged. If you want more boost than soft (0.2-0.3b) I would say forced internals is a must for any engine.

[@2487mpobor]

the compressor is clutched?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

yes its sc12 so it has electromagnetic clutch. If used it is disengaged at ~5krpm when turbo takes fully over.

[@2487mpobor]

I dont get why nobody have twincharging when they go Big single... I dont really understand... Ok of tuo dragracing... But on the road i think there is no better thing that having torque at low rpm

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

2487mpobor I agree you just step on it and its there. My guess would be that its uknown territory for most tuners and they prefer to stict to known paths.

[@javierwilde8840]

12v into a 5v motor?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

seems like your data is off. i just googled for a moment but this seems to be this tb my.prostreetonline.com/2014/09/24/service-vq35-throttle-control/

[@nkorniev]

This system seems a bit overly complex. Why not just install a flapper valve that opens itself automatically when there is no longer positive pressure in the piping connecting the supercharger to the turbocharger. Once the turbo starts getting into it's ideal rpm range it is more efficient than the supercharger casusing it to suck in more air than the supercharger and a net negative pressure in the tube. This causes the valve to open. An example of such a system can be seen here: Twincharger Mk1 escort first startup.

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

can you give me example of such flapper which i can buy anywhere? I chose electronic since its very easy to maintain (control if bvalve is working) and as valve you use tbody which is designed to run for years opening and closing and is cheap.

[@nkorniev]

I like your solution btw, great backyard engineering. I understand the thought behind it, I just figured you'd end up with a smoother , self tuning transition and even greater reliability if you used a similar setup. They're called single flap check valves have a look on google, you can find them on ebay as well. The one in the video is custom made by the owner of the car.

[@nkorniev]

45 to 100 kph was epic!

[@josue0977]

Turbo o supercargador?

[@flakey7832]

Both

[@superhyphy129]

he sounds like robbaz

[@briandavis414]

Who the hell would trust a electronic throttle body? I'd rather have control over how much gas I'm giving the engine... however it is an excellent idea for twin-charged engines! Surprised yet again, that it already doesn't come with the engine?

[@WhatIsMyNameDamnIt]

agreed. When i drive new cars that are equipped with etb I just try not to think about it. In twincharged system this etb works just as bypass valve in 0-1 mode i still have old-schoold line controlled tb :-)

[@damonlemasters3424]

Etb's don't control gas anyway they control air

[@Tailz90]

in soviet russia, throttle body close you