COMPOUND BOOST JUNKYARD 3800 V6 TURBO & M90 SUPERCHARGER-L32 V6 MODS PART 3

CAN YOU RUN A CHEAP TURBO ON A JUNKYARD BLOWER MOTOR? COMPOUND BOOST BABY! CHECK OUT PART 3 OF THE 3800 L32 VIDEO SERIES WHERE I ADDED A CHEAP, EBAY GT45 TURBO TO THE EQUALLY CHEAP, JUNKYARD 3800 SERIES 3 L32 V6. THE V6 WAS ALREADY FACTORY EQUIPPED WITH AN M90 (ROOTS) SUPERCHARGER. BACK IN PARTS 1 & 2, WE FIXED THE HEADS AND THEN ADDED MODS, BUT NOW IT WAS TIME TO ADD EXTRA BOOST FROM A TURBO! WILL IT MAKE BOOST? WILL IT EVEN SURVIVE? FULL RESULTS WITH BOOST CURVES! ENJOY.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

That's amazing! Looks like our Commodore is getting a turbo with it's supercharger!

[@ZedTee77]

Yeah Scotty that’ll be sweet 👍

[@Jake_Hamlin]

Do it, makes for great content

[@Low760]

F yes!

[@samball4828]

Everyone has been "oh nah the charger becomes a restriction" phhh love that this guy has shown that it can be done with great results

[@richardhstratton]

Perfect timing. Just sat down with some Italian food on the couch ! Also had a n/a 3800 in my Oldsmobile when I was a kid. Always wished it had a blower !

[@AjarZzzz]

Yea man i swear he has the best timing on youtube. Not just timing but the content always seems to be what your looking for!

[@TurboTPI]

Love it!!! I think this series is going to surprise ALOT of people!!! 1000hp or bust!

[@DanoDaDon]

These motors have already proven over 1k hp Google zzp and look up their twin turbo gt or ttgt.

[@TurboJohn74]

Next step: swapping to n/a manifold, w straight turbo? Amazing work as always

[@StavTech]

Fantastic. Shows how well the charger helps the turbo spool, as that's a lot low down from the turbo. Love it

[@DarkForest86]

This is what I am talking about. I have wanted to do this with the 4.0l v6 Mustang,lol wow!!!

[@krakhedd]

Rising boost curve --> no intercooler --> the pressure will increase? But I would expect your E85 runs on the stock setup to have revealed this.... Boost should multiply, not sum (use Atmospheres not PSI) Instantly, the coolest engine series on KZbin

[@victordahn2150]

Why use atmosphere (bar)? You will only confuse everyone and it just not a common term. unless you are around engineers. The blowers will usually always have a rising boost curve because of the drive ratio to the supercharger unless its too small.

[@krakhedd]

@@victordahn2150 cuz that's the math dude....you do not get 49 psi of boost from a pair of 7psi boost stages; you get ~1.25*14.7

[@victordahn2150]

@@krakhedd I am an engineer and I get it. But Bar is still an engineering term and the people that I usually deal with in the US do not measure in Bar but PSi I will not undervalue them just because its a simple atmosphere ratio. You can be a d*ck, or just provide knowledge based on peoples known pressure measurements.

[@krakhedd]

@@victordahn2150 that's funny, because I'm not sitting here pondering the intelligence of any potential audience. I'm presuming they know or will figure it out if they don't. And that somehow makes me a term I shan't repeat, for giving them the benefit of the doubt? Get da fuq oudda here 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣✌️✌️✌️

[@dogprowilhelm7630]

There are other precursor engines to GM 3.8L V6, including the 3.3L V6 and the 3.0L V6. Do a stroker V6 for quicker boost and awesome HP gains. My former Pontiac Grand Am had a NA 3.3L V6 and OEM roller/hydraulic cam, just get larger valve covers to fit roller rocker arms and an easy 5-10 HP gain. Boosted, but only if the lower end of the engine had lower compression pistons and gas ported rings. Hint, hint, when porting heads, open up intake ports for better volume and minimal smoothing on exhaust ports for higher velocity, port matching, volumetric balance for best results. Now you have a selection of OEM roller hydraulic cam options, I wish you well.

[@wildwest7692]

This is pretty cool! I would love to see a 5.3 engine with a 671 blower with a GT45/7875 combo would do! Keep the amazing videos going Richard!

[@trevorhonl]

I would like to see an NA series 3 (cast not plastic) upper and lower intake manifold on this before doin head/cam work. Would like to see boost levels to make the same horsepower. Also zzp makes an insert for them to supposedly help flow which would be another thing I would like to see dyno numbers on.

[@MississippiDan1]

Sweet test!! Priceless info bro! That's why we keep watching... 😎👍

[@Phil-rs5wl]

That's awesome, now I really want to see what kind of power it can actually make/handle.

[@trevorhonl]

People say 600 on stock bottom end all day long.

[@613Builds]

I saw a compound setup like this at motorama Toronto a few years ago in a Toyota or Nissan 5.7 v8 , in a cool classic JDM car.

[@HumbleDaves]

Every time I see you and a 3800 I get excited can't wait for more. Super excited to see turbo only. What 80lbs were you running in this vid?

[@richardholdener1727]

accel (deka)

[@NOMAD3030]

Super cool. I bet the drivability would be great on that combo.

[@Crysmatic]

the supercharger multiplies the incoming pressure ratio. You should have ended up with 2.37:1, or just over 20 psig. So you're getting a little bonus, or some sensors aren't reading exactly. fwiw, Harrop experimented with the 1.9L TVS blower (as on the LSA) on the series 3.

[@robertspike6611]

Richard you did well on the subject of needing a turbo cam for turbocharging have you ran a solid roller cam with hydraulic lifters or hydraulic roller cam using solid roller lifters, if not it would be interesting.

[@richardholdener1727]

yes-that has been done at westech a lot on BBC applications

[@andyharman3022]

Not a great idea running solid lifters on an hydraulic cam. Hydraulic cams typically have .006" closing ramps on both intake and exhaust. Solid Lifter cams usually have .012" intake and .018" exhaust. Over time, an hydraulic cam will beat up a solid lifter valvetrain. It's no problem to use hydraulic lifters on a solid lifter cam.

[@robertspike6611]

@@richardholdener1727 Any issues that you can state?

[@bensmit5888]

In Aust we just built Chev bow tie V6, twin 3582 turbos. with all the good components. interested once it hits the dyno. we will let you know how it goes !

[@richardholdener1727]

definitely

[@TorquePowerVideo]

Ok....now it's time for some spray!

[@ahotmess2261]

I recall a similar discussion when I twin charged my 2.0L Ecotec in my Redline. The blower spools the turbo and then the turbo up quicker and in turn it force feeds the blower so if the turbo is pushing 7# before the blower. Once 7# of compressed air hits the blower, it works as a boost multiplier. It doesn't add to the boost pressure it multiplies it as the motor and blower increase in RPM and the compressed air charge passes through the impellers into the intake. I dont know all the math off the top of my head but what ever the turbo can pack into the 91 cu ft of air per hour that the M91 blower compresses and moves through it Shooting from the hip to me it looks like the blower is multiplying the compressed charge by factor of 2.7X-3X through out the power band. 3k 4#v12#(3X), 4K 5#v14#(2.8X), 5K 6#v18#(3X), 6K 9#v24#(2.7X). The blower I think was probably running out of efficiency over 6K were you able to spin it up to 7K on any of the runs? Also my offer to port one of the blower housings and the inlet for a larger throttle body are still open. I don't recall if the 3800 was drive by wire or not, if so the Larger LS4 throttle body should fit it allowing more air through both and I need to know if its an 8pin or 6pin connector so i know whether I need to sent the adapter harness with it or not. That's if you're open to making those mods. Let me know.

[@trevorhonl]

Anything over 6200 would not necessarily require but highly recommended upgraded springs and pushrods.

[@ahotmess2261]

@@trevorhonl I think Richard did upgrade the springs when he had the heads done but not sure that was a while back. I think he is running the factory cam tho so he should definitely upgrade that or go with 1.9 rockers to increase valve lift without having to change cam profiles and is nice since they can only be used on factory cams and cost less than doing a cam upgrade.

[@trevorhonl]

Can't remember if he did or not

[@ZeroBoostBuick]

Not only is this one of my all time favorite engines,.. it's also so fucking easy to work on !!!!

[@andyharman3022]

Your compound boost setup worked better than Gale Banks'! The next part of the test that I hope you do is to run the turbo alone at the same intake manifold pressure, and see how the power compares.

[@stuffandjunkandthings364]

I think that's because Gale was using a twin screw supercharger, which has internal compression, vs a roots, which is just an "air mover" that relies completely upon the restriction provided by the engine's ability to receive the incoming charge )or in the case of the Buick, lack thereof).

[@DarkLinkAD]

Gale Banks, king of finding a "problem" that doesn't exist and "banking" off of poorly educated viewership.

[@richardholdener1727]

I think his test was done on diesel

[@andyharman3022]

@@richardholdener1727 Yes, it was a 7.0 Duramax with a 5L Whipple, 2 turbos, an intercooler, and an aftercooler. He was trying to get 1200 hp, and couldn't make it. In the process of trying to figure out what was wrong, he slowed down the Whipple, and picked up -200 hp. But the bsfc of the engine was lousy, and the egt was way higher than a diesel should have. What frustrated me about Gale's test was he never posted interstage pressures.

[@Prestiged_peck]

We need to see this same setup with that kenne belle you tested! Also I'd like to see what kinda power changes it makes going from e85 to say, E70, or E50, or even E25, because around here we only see 50-75% ethanol at the pump 90% of the time.

[@richardholdener1727]

down to e50-the power likely won't change

[@ebperformance8436]

I’m converting my engine to turbo…..I have gutted the M-90’ And when I say gutted, very gutted. I cut off the super charger bearing holders…..if you look at the throttle body all the material has been removed It took me forever to remove all that material…..I gutted it so I can use my short stack intercooler….I even cut the intake to make it look like the 5th generation intake.

[@richardholdener1727]

nice

[@Josh-vz6hn]

Interesting... I've got a series I L27. I also have a pairs of pre-series I LN3 heads, and one piece intake manifold (which I believe the intake can be mounted to a L27?)... Don't care for plastic intakes (plastic anything)... Any way, I haven't seen anything regarding the LN3, or L27 on your videos, but perhaps you can give me some advice in interchangeability, or differences compared to the 3800 engines you've built.

[@robertbryden9590]

Thank you richard

[@dilsher12]

Thank you for all the interesting tests

[@peaceandrelaxationwithgodscrea]

You have one of the best jobs ever

[@XL883CNick]

This combo just gets better.

[@jrmyadventr]

okay, so why I would consider a supercharger and then a compounded turbo later, is I'd be using a vvt 1.6L engine that doesn't make a ton N/A maybe 95hp at the wheels but would build it for high rpm. I'd consider a compound dual turbo build, but I'm not sure if overall engine response would be worse, as I believe superchargers effectively increase lower rpm torque as well as overall torque vs a gradual increase with a single turbo

[@samueljackson2478]

Can you do a dyno on the L32 Gm 3.4 V6 from 93-95 Camero / Firebird some of these come with a five spd

[@bgee461]

This is great knowledge. Reminds me a little of 15-20 years ago "the old one" and honda knowledge... his endyn site was pure gold

[@warrickdyson2281]

Would love if you can, to test camshafts in these motors. There’s a big market for reverse pattern turbo cams for this particular platform and I remember from your other videos you don’t think they’re the way to go. Would love to see if that stands true on the 3800s!

[@richardholdener1727]

Great Idea-reverse pattern cams

[@vicmccartin]

Richard is the mad man of westtech

[@michaelblacktree]

Great video! But I'm willing to bet, at this power level the blower is redundant. The turbo by itself should be able to do that easily.

[@dallynsr]

Guys are missing the point of this combination, is the supercharger spools the turbo quicker plus it boosts horsepower immediately. No lag. Turbo guys won’t get that. It’s a driver combo not a 1/8 mi or 1/4 mi combo.

[@michaelblacktree]

I'm willing to bet the GT45 on a 3800 won't have much lag, especially if the engine is modded for more n/a power. Also keep in mind "instant torque" is harder on transmissions and driveline components.

[@christianborghi7544]

Big Bang compound 3800

[@richardholdener1727]

it won't be compound

[@thetransformatorium7980]

We learned more is better! Always.....Better.

[@HISL67]

I have a supercharged v6 I am wanting a eBay turbo added in not sure what I'll need besides a tune an to keep it street legal not sure if that would be possible but

[@jonathanandrews1407]

Best YT ive watched this year. Thank you for doing this!

[@deanbryan3034]

Great video Richard, is the answer for the people chasing power from the l67 v6 cheaply

[@hugieflhr03]

Very cool!!!

[@Tunerfreak99]

Could you one day do a dyno comparison with Aviation 100LL . A lot of people I know use it in two stroke race bikes

[@shadowred1980]

Great stuff. Are you going to test this engine, with just a turbo ? Thanks for all the testing you do for us.

[@richardholdener1727]

That's the plan!

[@AlanHolloway-z1t]

Hi Richard, how does the turbo air get past the supercharger rotors.

[@richardholdener1727]

same way it gets past without the turbo-there is enough room

[@vicmccartin]

Super Turbo !

[@Holy-Hand-Grenade-of-Antioch]

Ive got an old Oldsmobile carbureted 3800 which is a 231ci i think? Its a great little engine. I wonder if i can do anything with it?

[@richardholdener1727]

yes

[@GR8racingfool]

Aaaaaaand you lost me when you called the supercharger a blower. Lol

[@richardholdener1727]

new?

[@meanestbean7219]

blower needs to be rebuilt thats why the boost curve was all wacky

[@richardholdener1727]

it was the same with 2 different blowers

[@djpickle68]

Love this.... mauh please!

[@GUE5TPA55]

Best Video yet

[@flyonbyya]

What about removing the parasitic loss associated with the super…and simply running a larger intercooled turbo that supplies the same relative volume as the combo, but with lower charge temps and losses ?

[@grandpasbuick]

My twin charged setup put down far more power than the highest output turbo only setup on this engine (stock cam). It increased the stock cam 3800 record from 430 whp to 498.

[@dallynsr]

You spin wheel guys and your parasitic blah. Any engine is a system of parasitic losses, that’s what makes them work. The end result is the point not the losses. 500 instant Hp is what the EVs are supposed to be so impressive compared to 500 turbo horses. This would rip instantly. And 500 is just warming up with Mr. Holdener. Remember, world record hp, 1/4 mi times, and 350 mph+ comes from a roots whipple not a turbo. He said this wasn’t a max hp deal.

[@richardholdener1727]

the Top Fuel uses a Roots blower-Whipple is a company that makes Twin Screw blowers (not allowed in Top Fuel) and (FYI) Turbos were outlawed in Top Fuel

[@calvinmathers]

If it makes 750 hp before going bang, I'll be impressed

[@Angeles-uh4dc]

It should make 500-700 on stock internals if all is done right.

[@kennethpowers8995]

Your intro definitely says it’s a 4.3 V6 lol

[@jacksonbermingham2168]

can u get a valley spacer for the m90.. and e85 i wanna see give air more time to cool and plenum area

[@richardholdener1727]

it needs an intercooler

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

The thing I miss the most from these type of tests are the BSFC data comparisons, yes I might be making 400 hp but how efficiently, is it using 20% more than a 6.0L LS for example?, that's a comparison I would like to see

[@richardholdener1727]

this test is not about that

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

You keep saying tell me in the comments then you are totally dismissive in your replies, I did not infer it was about that but curiosity killed the cat, it about comparing or why bother testing ! I like boosted smaller displacement as it can enable fuel economy when not running under boost hence OEM fascination with DOD etc, if I can get 600whp on demand but get say 4.8L economy without DOD reliability issues knowing the BSFC is almost the same at 600hp of a 6.2L NA, it's almost like you haven't learnt to accept constructive criticism 😔p

[@russelljackson7034]

Right on

[@plasticzeus40]

great videos, it would be nice on future videos if the dyno pulls had better audio.

[@richardholdener1727]

louder?

[@plasticzeus40]

@@richardholdener1727 Yes please, part of the coolness of the combinations is the noise they make. you literally have a shirt that says make some noise haha.

[@renieshakur7409]

@@richardholdener1727I second that. Wish that you would have shown the actual Dyno pull so we could hear it scream.

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Personally I blame squirrels

[@8power857]

Are you sure!

[@AndyR1982]

Where does this saying come from? Lol

[@8power857]

@@AndyR1982 i have no idea 🤣 i 1st saw John woodworth saying it, now Uncle squirrel, who is probably John Woodworth undercover 🤔🤣🤣

[@AndyR1982]

@@8power857 ive seen it for a long time and am interested in the back story lol

[@mrcisme]

This is something that I have been thinking about for a long time. Here is a question for you to contemplate. Does the turbo help spin the blower to act like a air motor and take away the parasitic drag of the blower and maybe even spin up the blower to put power back into the engine?

[@mrcisme]

What if you upped the turbo boost a bit. I realize you still have 7 psi on one side of the blower and 20 something on the other side so there is still some power lost to driving the pump.

[@richardholdener1727]

it actually makes parasitic loss even worse-the blower has to flow more air

[@mrcisme]

@@richardholdener1727 Even with positive pressure on top of the rotors?

[@robhudson6133]

Would it be more effective to run the boost from the supercharger through the turbo

[@jeffie8696]

I was taught that a supercharger only works in a limited RPM range and turbos work at higher rpms because they need to spool up which takes a certain volume of exhaust therefore the supercharger is geared to work down low and the turbo takes care of the additional requirement at higher rpms

[@robhudson6133]

@@jeffie8696 I feel it would end up with better air temp consistency with overal lower temps and less restriction to the turbo with a lower volume of air for the blower to push for example a side mount blower blowing through 66mm turbo then through an intercooler Into a n/a inlet manifold

[@300kwv6]

Interesting idea. I like it

[@richardholdener1727]

with no intercooler after the blower (like we ran it), yes-that would provide more cooling but would be a packaging problem

[@robhudson6133]

@@richardholdener1727 I do very much appreciate your input but I don't think you fully read my post Package wise not so much of a concern more interested in what makes the combination most efficient With all that sweet sweet runner length But using a Toyota super charger over the m90 would help with packaging Love the videos Richard thankyou for the time you put into your content!!!

[@thman6453]

Tonight's live only went for 9 seconds?

[@richardholdener1727]

That was just the staging lane

[@s.jolsen9560]

I have one and I'd like to get a fully forged rotating assembly kit but I cant find one! My goal is 1,000HP going into a Pontiac Fiero GT with a twin turbo set up. PLEASE, someone help me.

[@derrelcarter9401]

Do all the L32 come with coils mounted on the valve covers?

[@derekfelber743]

No they have a waste spark setup from the factory. 3 coils total, 2 cylinders per coil

[@richardholdener1727]

we ran ls coils

[@derrelcarter9401]

@@richardholdener1727 ahh thank you

[@retheisen]

The math doesn't seem to work out for this. 23.3 psi should be giving north of 700 hp on this combination. It would be fun to see a single turbo 3800 at 23.3 psi as a comparison.

[@shannonsisk]

Checks out in my opinion. Cheap turbo with old design that blows hot air and a small blower that is basically a heat pump, makes sense to me. Could use some methanol.

[@richardholdener1727]

check your math-it's right at the formula and not anywhere near 700 hp (the low comp na motor only makes near 180 hp)

[@DarkLinkAD]

If 10psig(24.7psia) = 290hp 22.3psig(37psia) = 434hp estimated Or 0psig(14.7psia) 173hp estimated Actual dyno was higher by 44hp. Not sure if this is from the intercooler, mabye base run had no headers? I dont know.

[@retheisen]

@@richardholdener1727 oops. 291hp is with 10lbs of boost already, not NA.

[@Christdeliverme]

another good test would be gutted blower for turbo versus L26 (NA) upper. NA upper with insert, and without.

[@flyonbyya]

Compound BOOOOOST !!!!

[@sammybrasch4926]

FINALLY

[@TheProchargedmopar]

👍💪

[@snupi_nut]

It's good to watch mindless garbage on YT . While the whole world implodes? Thanks for the entertainment.

[@blow0me]

Did you do anything with a supercharger compressor bypass when turbo boost is at any level ? Would have bene interesting to run it with turbo only, to see what the blower was bringing to the table, or hindering if the case. I can see a setup like this with a LSJ/Ecotec type motor in the very near future

[@richardholdener1727]

the compressor bypass is under boost with the turbo

[@blow0me]

@@richardholdener1727 Yes, but are you bypassing some turbo boosted air past the blower rotors or is all the turbo boost air having to pass through them too. My M62 has a part throttle bypass, which allows air to bypass the rotors and inlet manifold cooler. Just wondering if this would be of any +/- to retain some air bypass or just blow all air through the rotors

[@richardholdener1727]

I don't think the amount of air you could get through the bypass would be of much of a benefit-plus the turbo pressure feeding the inlet of the blower is less than the boosted air under the blower (compound boost), so opening the bypass would actually back feed the system.

[@sohctony]

7psi is a pressure ratio of 1.48 10psi is a pressure ratio of 1.69 Multiplied is a pressure ratio of 2.5 Which is a positive pressure of 21.8 seems negligible considering we dont have the raw data and we don't know in increase of the air temp. Awesome video, love seeing actual engineering in "real world" testing!

[@jacobhoke581]

This is a nugget of gold good sir thank you

[@averagejoe6971]

Dammit, man. I'm building a 3.8 SC Fiero. Keep up the tech talks on these engines... I have TWO grand prix gtp drivetrains on the way for my conversion. i could use some ideas ;)

[@keithsmith9889]

A fiero with a compound set up would be amazing! 500 hoarse fiero would be ferocious

[@madmod]

Running the individual coils looks pretty nice on the 3800 compared to the coil packs.

[@Angeles-uh4dc]

Love seeing this, the 3800 finally getting the recognition it deserves. I hope he tries doing some testing with just a turbo alone. Should be some interesting numbers than.

[@mortensandmoen5208]

I was thinking the same, a nice turbo with a good intercooler and 20psi +.

[@Saddedude]

3800s have been 140mph in the 1/4 at full weight 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@matthewallison7604]

They're a solid motor, they just sound like shit 😂

[@benhowe2087]

I think the cylinder heads and cam are terrible. Fix this and the boost will drop at the high end with a massive increase in power.

[@Boss260-]

Let's make some noise!

[@BackyardBuiltandTuned]

That’s a cool video, how about removing the supercharger and running 22psi just from the turbo? Would be great to see the comparison peak power

[@Saddedude]

Peak power would be same given similar iats. But the torque curve will loose out on alot imo...

[@user-mf2gr3cz6e]

@@Saddedude -parasitic loss

[@donaldsonjeoboham8759]

If I was to run a set up of this nature, I would go with a larger turbo. With the supercharger hitting down low, you don't have to worry about lag anymore and when the supercharger runs out of steam up top, thats when I would have the turbos come alive. Best of both worlds, toqrque down low and top end power of a turbo

[@Bozemanjustin]

Richard holder On one of his videos Gail Banks discovered that you can compound into a turbo because it likes high airflow But the positive displacement supercharger wasn't making very much additional horsepower when they compounded a turbo into it.. but it was producing an excessive amount of heat. Gail hypothesized that the blower doesn't like being compounded into it so if you could compound the blower into the turbo that would be ideal. Would be nice to see that blower, into an intercooler, into the turbo, into an after cooler, into the intake. Should compress the air most efficiently without excess heat

[@djpickle68]

Plus supercharger whine.....which ya just gotta have.

[@Holy-Hand-Grenade-of-Antioch]

I just watched that video.

[@Saddedude]

That torque curve is sick. This thing will be wild with a cam.

[@6vs8]

Keep the 3800 vids COMING!!! Thank you good sir.

[@JD-rq7il]

I love compound. I did this to a Probe GT back around 2006-2007. Trapped over 120mph in a probe, lol.

[@faststang85]

The good ol anal probe. You don't see them anymore.

[@BLKMGK4]

@@faststang85 Like NEVER see them - it's weird the way they all disappeared! A GF of mine had one in pink but it drove nice at least lol

[@wework4beer]

Checkout boosted speed demon on KZbin. He claims to have the world's fasted probe

[@BLKMGK4]

@@wework4beer Ha, awesome!

[@brettschacher8644]

I looked up some forum posts about this that were posted like 10 yrs ago and wow, people just didn't have their facts straight concerning the math on how this works, whether it could be done and what and how to do it. At lease with this engine. I want to build up my daily driver SSEi like this but not do it exactly the same. not with the exact parts Richard used and stay with the OE PCM if that could be done. Richard used a series 3 which has the powedered hot forged steel rods and I'm still running a set of nicely customized Cast rods and OE pistons but really would like to build my engine with a set of moly rods and forged pistons, and a bit less compression ratio to assist with the turbo part and the higher boost pressures. Get it down to closer to a flat 8:1 instead of 8.5. And install the intercooler, Air to water. under the S.C'r, wondering how it would work to have a cooler after the turbo then under the charger, if the heat exchanger would be able to handle both cooling cores?

[@mannyr.2756]

Thank you Richard very much appreciate the Buick v6 supercharged turbocharged compound combination, it's time to move on up to the current stuff that people are running today since you're all about the other guys engines, let's get a late model gen-6 Camaro 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo strap that puppy on up to your Dino and let's make some noise, and I have you know GM also made a 2.5L version of the same engine that was not available on the gen-6 Camaro, now that is something you might want to look into as well, you can get these engines relatively affordably, I can tell you this I own a 2018 Camaro with the 4-cylinder Turbo and I managed to get the car as fast as 1260s in 1/4 Mile and to my understanding there is more performance to be had from this combination, show us how it's done!...

[@timothybayliss6680]

The 2.5l is a big boy and theyre actually fairly common. Base Malibu and minitrucks have them and they are rated around 200hp. The turbo engines have a high density spincast head but there really arent much differences.when gm started pounding on these drag racing, the lost foam heads would start eroding the chambers and the heads would eventually fail. All of them from 2007 up have a better head and heavier PM rods and the geniii from 2013+ have a forged crank.the 2.0 has a little thicker sleeves and that might be important if you are running stupid boost. The 2.4l that was in millions of cars has port injection and a 58x trigger pattern. There is also lots of 10-15 year old cars in the junkyard. I am pretty sure it uses the same bellhousing and ignition trigger as the 3800 and would be pretty easy to get running on the dyno with port injection.

[@richardholdener1727]

its funny you think I can afford a 2018 turbo vehicle or even the engine

[@mannyr.2756]

@@richardholdener1727 alright dude I'm sorry I put it out there...😞

[@mannyr.2756]

@@timothybayliss6680 I already installed a 2.5 in my current 2020 Camaro, I call it my pandemic special and of course there is an obvious boost in power and specially torque, although both the engines are nearly identical, the 2.5 has a 11:3 compression the intake ports on the heads are slightly bigger, I mailed the domes off the Pistons to make it turbo friendly, I gapped the Rings at 28, I use head studs to preserve the threads in the block, zzperformance office head studs for these engines at an ungodly amount of Monies, so I bought a head stud kit from Jegs at $95, the head studs to get are the Chinese studs for the early Gen 3 LS engines.

[@bgee461]

@@richardholdener1727 same problem many hot rodders run into, that's why we're hooked on this other guys series 👍👍

[@bill2178]

this is possibly the coolest test yet but flipping pistons would smooth out the boost from supercharger .too soon?

[@richardholdener1727]

I'LL ASK SMOKEY!

[@faststang85]

@@richardholdener1727 it might be awhile before you get a answer though.🤣

[@ufarkingicehole]

I want to see what this engine can handle..... I feel its coming soon!!! Btw... that tourque curve is beautiful 😍

[@Angeles-uh4dc]

Plenty of people have seen 700 on a stock block with single turbo setups. Wonder if he’ll get near that

[@tuningwithstyx]

So a lot of guys who run the turbo and the blower will setup the bypass valve on the supercharger to open once the turbo starts producing some boost. The theory is that the turbo is going to be more efficient at making power so with the bypass valve open the turbo does all of the work and keeps the temps cooler, and reduces the parasitic loss from the blower. Then they would just reference total boost pressure from the turbo for the wastegate but have it set higher than what the supercharger can produce I personally have always wanted to try it the way you did it here, I figure why not let the supercharger compound it a bit if it's going to be there and just run an intercooler and/or E85 to keep things cool. Run a large pulley with the M90 to minimize the amount of heat it's making and still benefit from having the blower but let the turbo do the heavy lifting on the top end

[@dallynsr]

Solid flat tappets have more parasitic loss than solid rollers but flat tappets go real big hp. Guys want to keep getting hung up on parasitics. Friction is the way of the engine.

[@scottersandman6408]

cooler between compressors is intercooler. cooler behind compressor, before engine is aftercooler. ya i'm a fuss a$$

[@beargibson3100]

If Detroit Diesel had made gas engines. Lol

[@BLKMGK4]

Looks like you needed to regulate the wastegate post-blower to like 18 PSI for street maybe? Perhaps get more turbo down low and less pressure up high maybe? What would this have looked like with the larger blower pulley? VERY interesting Richard!! More compound testing please - this is really cool :)

[@hoost3056]

RH needs sleep......his V6 streams are crossing

[@AndyR1982]

Dont cross the streams

[@colebriden2193]

@Richard Holdner. I rev my motor to 7000rpm with ls7 lifters, double roller timing chain, big cam, stock pushrods, rockers, etc. I have a buddy who revs 7800 rpm

[@WellbeWelloff]

Don't suppose you'd do a series like this for the 3.6L pentastar, would you? Lol

[@phillipthethird42]

We got to talk. I want more power out of my 3800 supercharged.

[@richardholdener1727]

ask away or watch the vids

[@samueljackson2478]

Question can you do the same on the Ford 3.8 V6 wonder what you can get out of those engines as well.

[@carwashadamcooper1538]

I need this in the back of a '88 Fiero. Bad. Like, really bad. Way better than the caddy 4.9 mod..

[@mightyfinejonboy]

please try having the supercharger feeding the turbo.

[@richardholdener1727]

that makes no sense

[@deanstevenson6527]

A 231 Cubic inch engine with an M90 Eaton blower is "like" a 321 cubic inch engine normally aspirated. Add an M112, it's best assuming it is a 343 Before Turbo. So the extra compound boost isn't really limited by the extra "aluminum Eaton Lung"...your better off assuming it's now a 321 V8....before Turbo. The extra cubes of any postie displacement Roots style blower is about as volumeteically efficient as the engine it's sitting on is. VE tops out on both the 231 GM3800 and Eaton M90 at about 65% at peak rpm.

[@Joshie2256]

I agree with you in concept, but I do the math differently. If the blower is making around 8 psi then the volumetric efficiency is about 150% of NA so the 231 looks to the turbo like 347 ci.

[@bowez9]

Look at this and really see the benefit the Thunderbird SC had with its intercooler. Even with first Gen blower made more torque.

[@AlanHolloway-z1t]

Hi Richard, just wondering how the extra boost from the turbo gets past the positive displacement rotors. Let's say a 2.3 TVS supercharger, so a fixed 2.3 litres of air every revolution. While the air volume and supercharger speed are dictated by the engine rpm, how does the turbo air get past the supercharger rotors, as the supercharger rotors are set to engine speed. Does it just simply get pushed past the rotors.

[@richardholdener1727]

the effectiveness of the blower increases dramatically when you add positive pressure feeding the blower (just like any pump)