Wheat Flour Paste for Bookbinding // Adventures in Bookbinding

[@adamhester7294]

A tip that may be useful: It can sometimes be annoying to stir out lumps when adding powders to liquids. If you put your dry ingredients in the bowl first and add a small amount of liquid to them, you easily can whisk that thicker mixture until smooth. Then the rest of the liquid can be stirred in without forming any lumps.

[@69Buddha]

I appreciate someone who is willing to consider new approaches, test them, and change their mind. I wish more people in the world took a scientific approach. Thanks for the vid!

[@daveturnbull7221]

Your constant drive to learn, understand and share makes you my first choice for reference info on KZbin.

[@jamesglover831]

DAS = Absolute Quality

[@conny85is10the23best]

Hi, I'm Japanese. Do you mean the rice starch paste? I create rice starch paste last week. This is a method that can be done at home using the same method as rice starch paste sold in Japan. Grind the dried rice. (I recommend using glutinous rice from Japan or China, or non-glutinous rice from Japan, which has a lot more gluten than other long-shaped rices.) Next, once it has turned into a powder, sift only the fine grains and remove the larger grains. Most of this is the germ part, which is high in lipids. Sift it through the finest sieve you have, and soak it in 4-6 times the amount of water as the powder. Stir well and leave it for more than 30 minutes. The starch is separated from the cloudy water and collected at the bottom. Slowly pour the cloudy water out, then add plenty of water again and stir to separate it from the proteins and lipids. I repeated this 8 times. Add water, stir, and repeat until you have a clear liquid and a sediment after more than 30 minutes. After the liquid becomes clear, pour in water and stir, and if the water does not become clear even after hours, all of the sediment is rich rice starch. In other countries, it is then dried and powdered by air drying or other methods and stored, but because it is unsanitary and may be eaten by insects, in humid Japan, nori is made using only the amount obtained using this method. My grandmother used to make it using cooked rice, which turns yellow within six months. Even if it is made from simple rice flour, it will turn yellow in 2-3 years. My method seems a little time-consuming, but it takes a long time for it to turn yellow.

[@nich6220]

You're my go-to-guru of bookbinding!!! Always clear and concise with links to find further info! Brilliant!

[@carabidus]

I'm so glad for this video! I've seen a good deal of conflicting advice regarding starch versus flour for bookbinding. Proponents against flour claim that the protein attracts insects. But surely, the oldest examples we have of bound books were constructed with flour based paste? And yet, many of these centuries-old books are free of insect damage and still in remarkable condition.

[@DASBookbinding]

Insects like paper almost as much as paste, so it's just better to protect your books from insects I guess:) All the best, DAS

[@carabidus]

@@DASBookbinding Exactly why I never understood the assertions against flour paste! Any critters that munch paste will happily eat paper as well.

[@Mtonazzi]

Nice! That falls more into the "I can get that on the store that's 150m from my home", which is great when still partially locked down

[@DASBookbinding]

Finally, something for bookbinding that is easy to get!! DAS

[@renownedbandanawearer1345]

Thank you for sharing! It’s awesome that even after all your years of experience bookbinding, there are still things to be learned. I’m a little relieved that wheat flour paste is the recommended go to because it’s going to be a lot more affordable than needing to use starch paste all the time, methinks

[@thevdevitor]

Improvisation and experimentation. 2 must have skills for bookbinders

[@xoxoSamC]

I was wondering how to make this paste yesterday and watched your older video. How awesome that you released a new one today!

[@djh1947]

I'm a graduate engineer, and I find I am regularly explaining to non-engineers, that a fundamental to engineering advancement is making mistakes and learning from those mistakes. To make mistakes one has to experiment and not follow previous procedures. I'm now 75 and I first challenged the wisdom at that time when I was 18 and a student apprentice. My idea to solve a problem my company was facing was ridiculed by my management so I secretly had a part made for me by the toolmakers workshop. Not only was my idea a perfect success, and saved my company a lot of money, but the whole industry copied what I had done, and for decades whenever I saw a halogen lamp I saw my handywork. So my point is that any engineer would understand what you are doing by experimenting and learning. I have watched at least ten of your videos so far. I really like and appreciate what you are doing. I have already experimented, that is not followed exactly what you have done, and I am learning a lot from it. I have a bookmaking project and when it is finished it I will share my results with you. Anyway. I think what you are doing is excellent and I really appreciate it. ....except the music overlay. I love music. It's not your choice of music, but that I find it very distracting. You have a bookmakers jargon that I am not familiar with and I need all my attention on what you are saying. Hi. KZbin is very limiting in what one can post in the comments so I have created a folder on my Dropbox account with a simple video of the book I made following your video. Please let me know when you have downloaded the content of this folder so that I can delete it. Thanks. www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/zdrlzksrefczav5r52o3e/h?dl=0&rlkey=a2drbsuot2gndgqb8en6onz5k

[@DASBookbinding]

Hi David, Thanks for sharing your experience. I totally agree that experimenting is essential to advancing. I get a lot of questions like, "can I do this?" or "why do you do this first and that second, why can't I do it the other way round?". My answer is along the lines of, you should go ahead and try and let me know how it goes. Maybe you'll discover a better way of doing things. I might also add that you might find a difficulty with getting a straight edge or equal spaces if you do try the opposite order, but I'm sure you've considered that. Often the order is because of a workflow that was used in trade binderies that was more efficient. In a hobby the workflow is not important, and you can change the order, but traditionally there was a reason for something and I generally stick with tradition. Looking forward to seeing your work. DAS

[@djh1947]

@@DASBookbinding Hi, Because KZbin deletes any comments or replies to comments with internet links you will have to re-read my original comment, which I have edited to include the internet link.

[@ecaterinagabriela8857]

Thank you very much for sharing! I've found two recipes for wheat paste and wheat and starch combined in the book of Pauline Johnson "Creative bookbinding", I'll share them here in case someone is willing to give them a try : "Flour Paste 1 cup flour 1 cup cold water 4 or 5 cups boiling water Put the flour in a saucepan or double boiler and gradually add the cold water, stirring well until all lumps are removed. The mixture should be runny like a thin cream. Slowly add the boiling water and cook the mixture for 3 or 4 minutes, stirring constantly. Let cool. If the paste is to be kept several days a preservative can be used. Two teaspoons of powdered alum can be added to the flour when it is mixed with the water. A little powdered clove or three or four drops of oil of clove can also be added, if desired, to discourage mildew and mice and act as a preservative. " "Flour and Starch Paste 1 teaspoon flour 1/2 teaspoon alum 2 teaspoons cornstarch 6 tablespoons water (about 1/3 cup) Mix all ingredients in a saucepan and boil for 4 or 5 minutes, stirring constantly. If the mixture becomes lumpy, it can be put through a kitchen strainer when cool."

[@KYurk]

We call this paper mache in Canada. 2 cups flour 1 cup water, approximately. We add salt for preserve (1-2 tsp). Add consummate and spices and you have gravy. If it comes out lumpy, turn up the heat and whisk until smooth. Wheat is gold before it is ground, that is why it stains green/brown yellow. Rice is white and so are some potatoes. They also contain starch and it stands to reason that this is what she uses for paper repair or perhaps another grain. Green peas, corn and yams also have starch. Match your paper to the color of vegi. Plants have been used for centuries in dying. You can purchase potato starch in a box from most grocery stores. Starch is the thickening agent. If you add more flour to paper mache and some food colouring you have home made play doe for kids. Starch spray was used for years during ironing of clothes to make them stiffer and get nice crisp creases on your clothes, helps to remove wrinkles. On a side note: If you get salt stains on your leather, wipe with watered down vinegar solution. To convert corn from a starch/sugar to a protein boil with ashes.

[@KYurk]

If you have any questions consult a chemist, I’m just a mom and a house wife with a Liberal Arts degree and have nothing of value to contribute according to the general consensus of society. More over, my name is Karen.

[@jessicawicher]

This video WAS interesting and, like all of your other videos, so informative and packed with your years of experience. I couldn't be more appreciative of the knowledge you share so freely. Thank you!

[@CyclingM1867]

Thanks for this! I have a lot of flour, and so this will be a great way to use some up some of that once in a while. Also, your mention of various books on the topic of bookbinding are greatly appreciated. Thanks for them, too. 🤗

[@shannabolser9428]

I love all of these videos! Thanks for taking the time to make them.

[@kateh4030]

Interesting and informative as always! I followed your recipe for laundry starch paste but achieved a completely solid, but bouncy result. Weird, but not useful as an adhesive. Turned out that for whatever reason, I needed more water in the paste. I have had more success with flour paste (and the clove oil imparts such a lovely scent to the bookcloth I make with the wheat paste). I will also keep experimenting (or rather, following your experiments in my own kitchen.) Next up, bread flour paste, because that makes total sense. One thing I have noticed, is that the paste goes from milk -like to thickened in an instant, at the point when it does. And the cooking seems to take less time. I don’t think it can be environmental, because here in eastern South Africa, our weather must be pretty similar to yours. So many intriguing variables!

[@DASBookbinding]

Interesting. A 5:1 ratio for starch paste is close to universal. The transition to thick is very fast. Some people insist you have to continue cooking for some time after thickening. Since I use a Thermomix, it is easy enough to just let it cook and stir for 20 minutes. But before I had that it was tedious cooking paste. I was recently warned that a lot of laundry starches have added silica. The one I use hasn;t in the past, but I would never put it past a manufacturer to change something. That is why conservators don;t use laundry starch I guess. All the best, DAS

[@EB-yx4fn]

how interesting to get a look behind the curtain to your process! Thank you as ever for your research and generosity :)

[@Leo1406hongkong]

very useful and practical! I am going to make it by my own and see how it goes. Thank you

[@scardoesart]

I was looking for a recipe for wheat flour paste as a few people I have begun to watch made mention of it, I'm glad you explained it and starch paste because I'm certain it'd get confusing in my research if I didn't know the difference and what they're recommended for.

[@jordanw9377]

I do not have a double broiler. I used an oxo stainless steel bowl with rubber nonstick bottom. My flour was king arthur all purpose and I used filtered drinking water from my fridge. I followed Kathy's proportions and cook time but somehow... my result was mostly cloudy water and the tiniest bit of paste. I must be doing something incorrectly but I'm not sure what. I'm just glad I found your channel before directly gluing fabric onto matt board! Disaster avoided!

[@DASBookbinding]

That is a sign that the mix cooked fast at the surface of the bowl. Use a lower heat, which will mean a slower increase in the temperature and stir constantly with a whisk, especially at the temperature when the mixture thickens - between 60 and 80C. Good luck! DAS

[@jordanw9377]

@@DASBookbinding thanks for the analysis and feedback! I will try again!

[@SapioiT]

You can also use rice flour, or simply cook the rice and blend it with water. If you don't have a blender, it helps to strain the rice through a fine mesh, before mixing it with hot water, or mashing it like mashed potato, before mixing it with hot water.

[@shirleydick996]

I believe Japanese bookbinders favour rice flour paste; the few videos I've found show the artisan working it hard into the paper or fabric with a very stiff brush. I don't know if that's because it's hard to apply or if soaking the materials makes for a better bond.

[@SapioiT]

@@shirleydick996 But that's because rice and rice flour are so popular over there. In the west, people can still find rice, but rice flour is more expensive and more difficult to find, but wheat flour is easier to find, unfortunately wheat itself is also more difficult to find, even if not more expensive than the flour. People use what is locally available for them. I think that applying it with a very stiff brush is to force it into the paper or textile, for a better bond, and the paste might be thicker because water could ruin the paper or textiles, or cause the glue already in the paper/textile to fail. As for the glue, pretty much any significant source of starch would do.

[@bookbindinggeek]

I love your little scientific experiments. It feels like I always learn something new. Sage Reynolds made wheat paste without heating it (just mixed the Wheat Wallpaper Paste from Golden Harvest with water and let it sit for a while) in his recent "Two Black Albums Part 2" video. He said that he uses the non-heated wheat paste for made endpapers and casing-in. I wonder, if you make wheat paste with regular wheat flour without heating it? It probably wouldn't last as long that way. Also a little trick that I've learned from baking is to add the water into the flour and not the other way around. If you add just a little bit of water, stir well, add a little bit more water, stir some more and so forth, you avoid lumbs. At some point you can add more of the water at once, but start small.

[@DASBookbinding]

Yep, "cold-water paste" used to be very common, maybe less so now. You can't make paste with cold water and flour. The starch has to be cooked at some time. I assume most cold water pastes are dehydrated cooked starch pastes, with secret additives different to each manufacturer. BCM says of it that it is "satisfactory" but goes on to say that it is better to cook your own. For most bench work I have MC made up. If I'm making made ends I use, and still will, PVA/MC mix. The flour paste will be for leather work. As it says in the classic Ozzie song, when I make the Xmas gravy I start the mixing as you suggest. But in this case it doesn't make a difference. All the best, DAS

[@bookbindinggeek]

@@DASBookbinding Yeah, I'm the same. I've used paste mainly for leather. MC is just much less of a hassle as it doesn't go bad. All though I have to hand it to book binders, who use straight up PVA when attaching leather to book covers. My leatherwork is still at such a beginner level, that I'd just ruin the book, if I tried that. xp It's a shame that you can't make cold water paste with wheat flour. That would've been handy.

[@kyststudio-epicartadventure]

Great info. My covers are very well attached with wheat starch, so I assume it’s a longevity problem. Maybe won’t last 400 years.

[@Matt-hw5tt]

That's one heaped *tablespoon to 250ml of water, right? 0:40 Thanks for the video - keep 'em coming!

[@DASBookbinding]

Yep. It's also in the description, along with the ratios from other binders. Don;t add alum if you use some of the older ones:) DAS

[@graciouscompetentdwarfrabbit]

Wheat flour really is the most important thing in one's kitchen. With it you can make pizza, bread, cookies, pancakes, chocolate cake, brownies, and, finally, glue. I'm probably going to start buying 10kg bags to save some money. P.S.: Yes, I have a very healthy diet, as you can clearly see from the foods I thought of.

[@Mtonazzi]

Hey, let's assume you also work out and have a quite active life! I don't see the unhealthiness there (besides, those that live under strict diets only because they "want to look healthy/slim" won't live longer... it'll just feel twice as long! xD)

[@EB-yx4fn]

XD glue is an essential part of every meal

[@ared18t]

This is like making rice glue :D

[@ancz4285]

Thanks for the demonstration, Darryn! In the video you mention that wheat flour paste could stain paper brownish - do you use this recipe also when making paste papers? Or would you rather recommend using starch or a different flour for paste papers?

[@DASBookbinding]

I use refined starch paste for paste papers. But of course paste papers go back hundreds of years and these were made with flour paste and still look wonderful. Since it's available I guess I would use starch rather than flour. Since I'm using acrylic paint I'm not being historically accurate. Ciao, Darryn

[@lisasolonynko7370]

I am wondering if it is possible to Can flour paste ahead of time (as you would food) into mason jars?

[@DASBookbinding]

I think it would be. But it would need very good sieving before use. I would use a water bath below boiling or I think you could overcook the paste.

[@Javaman92]

I am just about to start my bookbinding journey and am doing my research. Well, it's been a year. DO YOU still use wheat flour paste? I'm looking at my supply list and the PVA glue is $15-19 US. I like the idea of being to make my glue as I need it. Thanks in advance.

[@marynamdar]

Hi Darryn, thank you for your perfect tutorial videos. In the description in Douglas' recipe: how much alum have you written? 14 Oz is correct?!

[@DASBookbinding]

I think that should be 1/4Oz. But I wouldn't use alum. I'm sure they were using it as a preservative and it will make the paste acidic. I'll look it up later and correct.

[@marynamdar]

@@DASBookbinding Did you know, in some Islamic countries like Turkey and Pakistan people add little amount of alum to starch or egg white when they size the paper for calligraphy purposes or when they use as a bookbinding paste?

[@daccuiz]

nice video brother !! after you made it then you have it in fridge ?? how many days last ??

[@DASBookbinding]

Maybe a week. Starts to smell a bit fermented about then.

[@matildas3177]

As I was experimenting with making seitan a few days ago I had a though - what if the starch water left over could be used for making glue? What do you make of that idea? Seitan is a mock-meat that you can easily make at home with a bit of gluten rich wheat flour and cold water. You make a dough and, after letting it rest a while, rinse it in a bowl of water until all the starch is in rinsed out of the dough and you are left with just the gluten. If the starchy water could be reduced and made into a glue, that would be brilliant! I need to experiment some more and test this hypothesis.

[@DASBookbinding]

When I was vegetarian seitan was one of the foods that never grew on me:( But it might make great glue! I did the same thing making potato cakes. Let the starch settle out and made paste. It seemed a bit brittle. Good luck! DAS

[@Javaman92]

OH and can this glue be used for all aspects of bookbinding?

[@DASBookbinding]

Not the most convenient. It is the best for traditional leather bookbinding. Otherwise PVA and methyl cellulose are the 2 go to adhesives that are most convenient. IMHO.

[@CharoNuguid]

I recently learned about glutinous rice wallpaper glue. Can I also use this for bookbinding? It just says eco friendly and non toxic, but nothing else.

[@DASBookbinding]

Sure, you can use what you want. It's designed to work with paper. Most wallpaper pastes have anti-fungals added, which I wouldn't like to use. But yours says non toxic. It will probably work like a paste rather than a glue, which is what you want I think. I personally wouldn't use it for traditional leather binding. I'd "stick" to wheat flour paste for that.

[@CharoNuguid]

@@DASBookbinding Got it! Yeah, my projects usually make use of bookcloth rather than leather which is why I wondered about this. Thank you! 😊

[@CocainTrain09]

I've watched your videos off and on, especially the leather binding events and I could never figure out why you were using starch paste. If you read Arthur J's book you'd know better. He also gives a good, simple recipe for wheat flour paste and another one for white paper mending paste. Manley Bannister also gives good recipes in his book. The addition of powdered alum is not meant as a preservative but to help make a smoother, lump free paste.

[@DASBookbinding]

Yep, I'm fairly familiar with Johnson - the Thames and Hudson manual anyway. Maybe he's more specific in in one of his other books. In the T&H Manual I don't remember him comparing the use of starch paste and flour paste. He does use flour paste, but as I said in the video, I put this down to what I thought was a change in general practice from when this book was written. Maybe a mistake on my part, but I have met many binders who use starch paste for leather bindings. Again the books are a bit frustrating in that they aren't specific about why alum is added. Cockerell seems to imply it makes the paste last longer. The alum should be avoided now anyway. All the best, DAS

[@HeathenHammer123]

Would this technique be good to glue the spine as well as scrim?

[@DASBookbinding]

I think glue (PVA or animal protein glue) is a better option for the spine. The reason usually given is flexibility. But conservators often put an initial layer (conservation layer) of washi paper and paste before using PVA.

[@HeathenHammer123]

@@DASBookbinding great to know. Thank you so much for the reply on an older video.

[@ladyofquills]

Thank you very much for all this information, in addition to showing how to make the paste! I was wondering though, do you use the wheat flour paste only for attaching the cover to the boards or can you use it when gluing the spine of the text block as well? Does it dry flexible enough for that?

[@DASBookbinding]

Traditionally paste is considered not flexible enough for use on the spine. It could also introduce more moisture than desired. However, some people like to put a thin layer of paste on the spine (sometimes as a conservation practice) and then usually put a more traditional glue, such as PVA/EVA, over this.

[@ladyofquills]

@@DASBookbinding Thank you so much for responding, I've been trying to find the answer to this question everywhere, but have been having a lot of difficulty with it!! :)

[@subhankardutta8141]

That's eco and pocket friendly

[@michaelaholloway9427]

I want to make a new cover for my faux leather bible and make a hard cover canvas cover. How do I do this?

[@DASBookbinding]

Would really need to see the bible - if it's rounded and backed etc. But assuming it's not, then a simple square back case. Yours, Darryn

[@anthonywest3504]

Do you ever use Yasutomo brand Nori? I've read that is has a neutral pH and is archival safe. I am concerned about what preservatives they might be using to get it to last so long though. I'd like to use it in mix as a convenient alternative to wheat paste or methyl cellulose.

[@DASBookbinding]

I know it is commonly used as a paste substitute (well, it is paste) but I don't use it. It looks a bit thick for mix. I don't know - I don't use it. But MC is so easy to make and use. One bag of MC will do most people forever. It seems easier than buying a wet adhesive regularly. But in regards to preservatives, this would only concern me on paper repairs. For glueing 2 things together, it wouldn't concern me. DAS

[@anthonywest3504]

@@DASBookbinding Thank you for always replying to questions so quickly. If I stick with this hobby for much longer I will subscribe as a Patreon. You have the best bookbinding content on KZbin and I appreciate your resources on your website. I am still going to experiment with the premixed Nori because I am curious. However, I suspect that I probably will stick with MC for mix. I was unaware until recently that MC doesn't spoil like paste will.

[@leighDrusllalyle2304]

Can you use corn starch or potato starch in bookbinding?

[@DASBookbinding]

I think I discuss this briefly in my video on bookbinding adhesives in general. Short answer is that you can, but not all starches are equal and there may be downsides. No up sides that I know of - except maybe availability. I'd use rice starch before these 2. For the hell of it I did extract starch from potatoes just to give it a go. It didn't work very well:)

[@leighDrusllalyle2304]

@@DASBookbinding Cheers. It was just a thought as these starches are so readily availed. I think as a baby beginner, if I try book binding I will just use PVA to begin with

[@imhmms8105]

Hello! Thank you so much for sharing this ♥️ but I would just like to ask if I can substitute the wheat flour with glutinous rice flour or simply all purpose flour? Since wheat flour is not readily available in my country as of the moment (quarantined).

[@DASBookbinding]

Yes, any starch based flour should work. You may have to adjust the ratios a bit to get the thickness you want. Good luck! DAS

[@imhmms8105]

@@DASBookbinding Yay! Thank you 😊

[@imhmms8105]

@@DASBookbinding Hello again! I have another question, I have recently read in Kathy Abbott's book that Wheat-flour paste and Wheat-starch paste are not recommended for spine of the book as it's not flexible, may I ask what adhesive would you recommend?

[@DASBookbinding]

@@imhmms8105 PVA/EVA One specifically for bookbinding or paper. Especially avoid PVA designed for wood.

[@susannoguchi9638]

What are your thoughts on Jin Shofu wheat starch; worth the premium? thanks

[@DASBookbinding]

It's the gold standard of the gold standards. If you're working rare/expensive/important paper than the premium probably doesn't seem very high. It's very hard to get in Australia and I have a high level of confidence in the laundry starch I use. I've used it for 30 years and have examples from when I started which show no signs of ageing. But if I was in the US I would use Jin Shofu, because why not. But as I said in the video, this would only be for paper repair. Going forward it's flour paste for leather for me:) All the best, Darryn

[@qwasdninja]

A small mistake; at 0:45 it should be tablespoon (15ml) rather than teaspoon.

[@DASBookbinding]

Thanks. Unfortunately it's hard to change videos once published. I've added a note in the description. My bad. DAS

[@justinmichaeltarot]

Do you think peppermint oil as an additive would hurt the paper bond?

[@DASBookbinding]

Do you wan to add it as a preservative or just to make things smell nice? Either way, for flour paste I don't think it will make a difference. Wheat flour paste just doesn't keep so no point trying to add preservatives. My experience anyway. But I've got so used to the smell of oil of cloves I sometimes add it just for nostalgia. DAS

[@justinmichaeltarot]

@@DASBookbinding I thought it would add a nice minty scent.. particularly when I mix it with PVA.. Btw I made a batch using the 1 heaping tsp to 250 mls of water and the paste came out a bit too soupy for my needs. I wonder if that was supposed to be heaping table spoon.. I made a batch that was about 7 heaping tsp to about 1000 mls and it seemed perfect. What I do is boil around half of the water and I blend the flour with cold water in a separate container. When the water boils I add the mix. It thickens almost instantly. I them lower and cook for 20 mins. Came out great

[@rilloig9614]

Can you do a video on meeting guards? Thank you.

[@DASBookbinding]

Funny you should ask. I have been working on a video on a single section stub binding for a client. I don't have a lot of experience with stub bindings -aka meeting guards - but have been trying to find time to learn more and do some experiments, especially with music. So maybe some time in the future. All the best, Darryn

[@wesandell]

Have you seen any disadvantages to simply microwaving the water/flour mix vs cooking over a stove? It is a lot easier to just toss it in the microwave for a minute than messing with a double boiler and all that. But, does that result in an inferior product vs doing it the "traditional" way or is it simply "tradition" to cook it over a stove?

[@DASBookbinding]

Problem with the microwave is that you can't just zap it for 1 minute. You have to zap it for 10 seconds every minute or so, for theoretically if you want the same paste, the time you would have cooked the paste on the stove. Now no one does this, and once it thickens that's it. So I think it is easier to just use the double boiler. Bu thaving said that I nearly always use the Thermomix, in which case I turn it on, put stuff in and walk away and it makes perfect paste. All the best, DAS

[@Ali-xz8bp]

Hi, Is the wheat paste acidic?

[@DASBookbinding]

No. It's close to neutral if made with pH7 water.

[@kathy2539]

I saw a recipe, flour, sugar and water! Why add sugar? Is this a preservative? Another recipe had 'borax' added!

[@DASBookbinding]

So, by saw do you mean on the interweb thing? I could imagine borax as a preservative . Alum is the one often mentioned in older books. But even Burdett points out some of these chemicals added as preservatives are often acidic. In the case of Borax, it would be boric acid that would act as a preservative. Sugar would promote microbial activity and would be bad, you would think.

[@fridabafverfeldt2008]

I'm struggling to find pure starch and really want to try making paste paper, could i use this instead or will it discolor noticeably over time? Thank you so much for all your both instructive and inspiring videos!

[@fridabafverfeldt2008]

I do however have access to arrowroot, tapioca or corn starch if either of them are a better option.

[@DASBookbinding]

I've not used wheat flour paste for paste paper but I think it would be fine. I think the colour change with time would be very small over a long period of time and only noticeable when repairing paper. Once colour is added I don't think it would be noticeable. Paste papers have been made since the 16th century and until the 20th century these would have been made with wheat flour paste and many of these still have incredibly bright colours. Or try corn starch or rice starch if they are available in your food store? Good luck, DAS

[@DASBookbinding]

Sorry I missed your addendum. These are worth a try though some of these starches apparently get brittle. I've not tried them. As already mentioned, I think wheat flour would be fine, or corn starch. DAS

[@fridabafverfeldt2008]

@@DASBookbinding Thank you for the answer! I went out and bought some cheap acrylics today and will try making some papers tomorrow. Im so excited! :D

[@ordesolomons9545]

Why not try Japanese wheat starch paste? It has many advantages, stronger than flour paste but doesn't stain. I used it extensively since the 1970s when I was trained to use it at the British Museum Oriental Antiquities Department.

[@DASBookbinding]

I do use starch paste (specifically wheat starch paste) for paper repair all the time. Refined starch paste is not as strong as flour paste and thus why I use it for leather work. I go over details like this in my overview videos on adhesives. One other thing, some people don't have access to wheat starch and for binding new books as a hobby I wouldn't want access to refined starch to be a barrier. It worked well for bookbinders for hundreds of years.

[@TgWags69]

@0.44 You say heaped Teaspoon instead of Tablespoon. It is clearly a Tablespoon as well as listed in the description. Just bringing attention to it for the sake of clarity if it helps someone.

[@ArtWars314]

thx for making this as usual I really appreciate the information. got a few questions for you. as far as adhering the book cloth to the book. I understand that traditionally only a wheat paste or PVA /EVA used to adhere book cloth to the book board however, what is your opinion on the following ways of adhering the cloth to the board☻☺ 1) heat and bond kzbin.info/www/bejne/epi4kHyFhr-YiMU I suggested this to another bookbinding community they all scoffed and said that this is not a real book. However , aside from the difference in artistic taste, what is your functionality/ techical opinion of using this to adhere. Some objected to this stating that in curved spine, youwould not be able to iron and adhere seamlessly ( which I disagree since you can use a heat gun/ curling iron) Technical wise to me it looks sound. 2) sticker back book cloth www.xyron.com/p/creative-stations/creative-station-lite/creative-station-lite-624740/ I recently got this and was thinking about rolling in my book cloth and making it into a giant sticker to adhere to the book boards. The only info I can get out of the permanent adhesive backing is that it reads " acid free, non toxic" What is your opinion in these two unconventional methods listed above to adhere book cloth to the book board. Also, if according to Kathy Abit wheat paste will eventually yellow paper, and though not using it for page repair, but pasting it to book cloth and book cloth, wouldn't it eventually yellow the book cloth? Thx again for sharing.☻☺

[@DASBookbinding]

I would agree with the difficulty in apply heat activated adhesives. They have a very short open time and trying to manipulate the cloth into position while the adhesive is melted sounds much more trouble than it's worth. Much harder than using PVA. The adhesive itself is less of a concern. The sticky backed cloth is different. These pressure sensitive adhesives are notorious for lots of bad reasons. Think of yellowing sticky tape with fugitive chemicals that migrate through paper and turn everything brown. I would avoid that. For bookcloth most people will use a fast tacking adhesive like PVA. Straight paste wouldn't normally be used for bookcloth. Too much trouble with slow tacking of turn-ins etc. You might use mix if you're worried you might need to reposition something. Is there a reason you don't want to use PVA? It's cheap and easy to use. DAS

[@ArtWars314]

@@DASBookbinding Well unless I make the fabric into book cloth, pva would definitely seap through, and I'm also afraid of bubbles and wrinkles adhering to the bookboard. I wonder if I used hair spray or even clear acrylic spray on the back side of the fabric and then use PVA, if that would prevent a seap through.(my lazy shortcut thinking coming in). I could just make good old fashion book cloth, but I"m considering my "lazy" options. haha I discovered this by accident. I would take muslin ( untreated) and use a glue stick on a piece of paper, stick it to the back of muslin and then ironing the paper and fabric together. I did this so that I can put the muslin in my printer to print on it(I'm all about the lazy shortcuts haha). After I printed on the muslin, i couldn't peel the paper off without ripping it , it was permanently stuck to the muslin.'I used normal printer 20 lb paper and now the muslin is STRAIGHT, thick and stiff. What do you think about making that as your paste paper( with acid free permanent glue stick, instead of heat and bond it's ALOT CHEAPER & it looked to me it adhered JUST as well It was corner to corner adhered just like as if I used heat and bond on it. I also apply very generously with the glue stick, corner to corner edge to edge and I saturate it to the point the paper starts to warp.) But after carefully rolling the fabric on it, then ironing it, it's completely flat and no bubbles at all Let me know what you think.♥♥☻☺ P.S.what is your opinion on what Kathy said about wheat paste yellowing things, wouldn't the book cloth turn yellow over time? Thx again♥☻☺

[@carriesnyder6834]

A question regarding applying adhesive... I've noticed in some situations you use a stipling-type motion with your paste/PVA/mix brush, and sometimes more of a painting/sweeping motion. Are there situations where one or the other would be best? I was originally taught just the painting motion (from the center out), but Jen Lindsay's Fine Binding book says stipling for PVA and painting for paste (if I recall correctly), and I never understood why. Thanks!

[@DASBookbinding]

Paste is usually for paper and you want to use a painting action on paper to not damage it. especially when using wet paste. Stippling is great for getting adhesive into the grain of bookcloth and I was originally taught to hold the glue brush like a fist and work it in well. Also good for getting an even layer of adhesive on board. But I will occasionally paint it on too. Paper is always centre out as it starts to stretch (expand) straight away and it is best if this happens evenly outwards. Thicker paper doesn't matter too much and I might stipple that because I'm treating it more like card or board. Hope that helps. DAS

[@carriesnyder6834]

@@DASBookbinding Really helpful, thanks!

[@bertkutoob]

I was thinking of a career in rocket science but decided it was over my head. After watching this, I'm not sure that was the right decision....

[@ordesolomons9545]

You didn't understand my statement. I said JAPANESE wheat starch paste. Read my comment again!

[@DASBookbinding]

Thanks for your emphasis. I understood what you meant originally. In the study published in the Journal of the Institute of Conservation 2021, Mito Matsumaru found “wheat starch sources nor pre-soaking had any measurable impact on the final properties of WSP”, using Zen shofu and a generic refined wheat starch (UK source). I have used Zen shofu in the past and this matches my personal observations. The weakness in the Matsumaru work is that she was measuring wet properties of the paste not dried strength, not considering materials being adhered and does not consider wheat flour paste or other high gluten content starch/flour. I’d also emphasise I am a bookbinder not a conservator and I was clear about wheat flour paste not being suited to paper repair in the video and that my main use for wheat flour paste is for leather bookbinding. My personal informal tests have found wheat flour paste to be a stronger adhesive in this application than starch paste. And since my observation is there is no significant difference between Zen shofu and generic wheat starch paste, my original sentiment stands. However, you have far more experience than I am and are much more familiar with the research and I would be very interested to hear if you have information that contradicts this. As an aside, I was trying to find an analysis of Zen shofu to assure myself that it was okay to recommend it to a severe Celiac. I was surprised to find that Zen shofu properties can vary by supplier and may contain up to 1% gluten. The Matsumaru paper has a side note that mentions WSP in Japan being made from wheat flour with a gluten content of 12%. However, I have not read the article cited, and well that’s just wheat flour paste.

[@apostolicbible1]

In another video the man uses wheat paste in cold water with no cooking...is this just another method?

[@DASBookbinding]

It's precooked and has much stronger preservatives in it. It's probably fine for most work. Obviously not a conservative grade adhesive. Especially in the past cold water pastes were regularly used in commercial binderies. But I don't like the idea of using it. If I'm going to put 20+ hours into a leather binding, a few more minutes to get a high quality adhesive seems like a good investment. Ciao, Darryn