Wheeler Professional Leveling System vs Real Avid Level-Right Pro

[@foonus406]

I use both products and found them to be consistent. I did find a limitation with the Real Avid system. A scope that has screw on lens caps that can not be unscrewed due to barrel clearance once installed (low rings on a Nightforce NX8) the system does not mate up to the scope. Thanks for the video!

[@crazyhawk99]

I also ran into a situation where the Avid tool wouldn’t work. I was trying to level a scope on a Remington 700 that had a tapered barrel. The problem was, the barrel had a ramped fixed rear sight assembly below the objective lens hood so you couldn’t get the Avid tool to work. Thanks for the comment and feedback!

[@jerrychambers7267]

Great video, I bought the wheeler a few years back and for the most part I get along ok. Thanks for taking your time for others.

[@crazyhawk99]

@@jerrychambers7267 glad you found the video worth your time. Thanks for watching and for the feedback!

[@gordonspringate7500]

Hi from England Uk. Very informative video. Thank you

[@crazyhawk99]

I’m glad you found my video informative. Thanks for taking the time to watch and for your feedback. Cheers!

[@billmorse3303]

I do a version of the level and eyeball method. I level the gun in my gun vice and hang a plumb string and align the vertical reticle to the plumb line then I eyeball the barrel bore to a grid point at 25 feet and dial the reticle to that bore sight point. I always print on paper and point of impact is usually a few inches from the aim point. The Avid grid alignment system is slick and looks super accurate and easy, may have to make the investment!

[@crazyhawk99]

I am familiar with this method and am remiss in mentioning it in the video. Thanks for the comment!

[@TMS5100]

this is a correct method. plum bob and look through the reticle.

[@williamdevitt7866]

yep you do it right screw all the fancy shit with that stuff you get it all perfect and then you shoulder the gun and WHAT it looks crooked hahahaha its level to the gun but everyone may shoulder the gun different or maybe a left hand shooter that may change thing just use a plumb bob and you will get it dead nuts evey time

[@TTT-du6oj]

⁠@@crazyhawk99 A lot of us hunters and shooters wrestle with this and there a few different ways to approach it, elevation turrets are not always true with the reticle.Plumbob’s are good, picatinny rail base mounts for the receiver make it easier to get the gun level,I thought you did a great job explaining the process and different ways to do it, Thanks 👍

[@crazyhawk99]

@@TTT-du6oj I am very family with the plumbob method and should have mentioned it. That method can work well, however the problem with that method is you need a system to make sure the gun is level otherwise, even if you line up the vertical crosshair with the plumbob string, when you hold the gun, the reticle won’t be level.

[@BB-mt5no]

Excellent video explaining these two popular systems. I have access to professional grade leveling equipment at work so I go overkill and use that to mount my scopes. It takes a bit more time, but it only needs to be done once and takes care of the OCD voice in my head. A spirit bubble should be fine, but I have come across some that are off. Only slight problem I found was that cup of coffee going cold. 🤣 Just a joke. I have no issue with how others want to drink their beverage or mount their scope. The "right way" is the way that works best for you.

[@crazyhawk99]

Thanks for the feedback and compliment. As for my coffee growing cold, you are on point. That said, if you’ve been drinking coffee as long as me and are a true believer, cold coffee is acceptable as long as it’s good coffee. LOL

[@WilsonRawlins]

That's one heck of a coffee cup! ;D Subbed/voted! Just built a budget DMR 6.5 Grendel and want to make sure the scope is dead on. Shooting at 1200yds has to be perfectly level.

[@crazyhawk99]

Thanks for the feedback, for taking time to watch and for the sub! I haven’t built a Grendel yet but it’s on the list. I got the mug at Cabelas. I think they still sell them.

[@WilsonRawlins]

@@crazyhawk99 Nice! I'll check them out!

[@Maine307]

thanx for the video, i am comparing scope / optic mounts right now, and this was a huge help in my decision making. i currently have the wheeler 2 iece level system, but it just seems lacking. it appears that with the "light" and leveled grid, there appears that it is more of a confirmation that the optic is leveled to the firearm. thank you for helping me. great video!

[@crazyhawk99]

Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching and for the feedback!

[@florasena]

Good demonstration of how the Real Avid Level-Right Pro works with picatinny rails. Thanks.

[@crazyhawk99]

I’m glad you found the video informative. Thanks for watching and for your feedback!

[@DN-kz7xl]

I bought a similar level system as the wheeler. The small level can be adjusted with small screws. Just make sure that the small block level is actually level by using a precision level to test that. I found that the small level is not level if turned 180 degrees.

[@crazyhawk99]

Thanks for the info and for taking the time to comment and for watching my video!

[@Skilled_Driver]

I use two small bubble levels and to back it up, I use a plumb bob hanging from a door to verify, by splitting the string down the middle with the vertical line in the reticle.

[@crazyhawk99]

If you are using a plumb bob, you really only need 1 level on your receiver to confirm your gun is level. Nothing wrong with doing that. Thanks for watching and for your feedback.

[@Skilled_Driver]

@@crazyhawk99 plumb bob it only used to verify, looking threw the sight and trying to tighten it down without moving is to much of a pain

[@malcolmgary1086]

Two questions pertaining to the process that you covered to mount the scope: 1) How did you insure that the grid lines were not canted? 2) Assuming that your process was effective, how do you ensure that your aiming process does not introduce a cant (no anti-cant device was mentioned).

[@crazyhawk99]

Great questions. As for the first, I kind of alluded to it in the video but I now see how you came to ask the question. You can see in the video something green centered above the grid panel. That is a level that is part of the grid panel. The grid panel can be rotated and tightened down after you level the panel. As for your second question, also a good one. To account for shooter induced can’t, you would want to mount an anti-can’t level to your receiver or scope tube. Although I don’t use them, if you are shooting extended ranges, they are a good idea. Thanks for watching and for your questions!

[@eddie_bosberg]

Super helpful, especially showing use on picatinny rail.

[@crazyhawk99]

Glad you found it worthy of your time. Thanks for watching and for the feedback!

[@DN-kz7xl]

Just a question: does it matter that the boreline and the scope tube should be aligned on top of each other 100% and not the slightest left or right deviation of the scope in relation to the barrel. If so, how to assure that.

[@crazyhawk99]

Yes, it does matter. You do want the scope to be aligned with the bore. If it isn’t, the scope may not have enough adjustment range to compensate for the misalignment. Quality scope rings will assure scope alignment. If using cheap rings, they may need to be lapped to make them true.

[@DN-kz7xl]

@@crazyhawk99 Thanks.

[@crazyhawk99]

@@DN-kz7xl my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time to watch and for your question!

[@yuccaman3545]

I had the Real Avid system and returned it. The bubble on the grid board wasn't even close to level. I verified this by using an laser leveler and lined it up to the grid patter on the board and checked the bubble. I would suggest if you use the Real Avid system ditch the grid board and use a plumb bob or use a laser level against a wall. As a side note, having a bubble level on the scope, not the rifle, is important for long range shooting. You can spend all the time leveling the rifle and scope, but when you are in the field how do you know the scope (reticle) is level without a bubble?

[@DN-kz7xl]

When you have levelled the rifle and then the scope as well on top of the rifle, both will be level when either is level, thus it would imo not matter where the bubblelevel is attached. If the scope for some reason turned a fraction in the rings, you would not know if you had the bubblelevel on the scope. If the bubblelevel was on the rifle, you may sense the slight cant in the crosshair. Or not.

[@yuccaman3545]

@@DN-kz7xl You might notice if the scope turned a fraction with the bubble level on the rifle, but you would definitely notice a shift in POA to POI at long distances. But if your scope is moving in the rings, you have bigger problems to worry about then where you mounted your bubble. Also, with a scope bubble level you have the ability to make adjustments, but having a pic rail mounted level there is no adjustability and if for some reason you need to remove a pic level off your rifle you will need to rezero again.

[@ronin6737]

Have you used the Real Avid Vice

[@crazyhawk99]

I have not. It looks great but it is quite pricey and I don’t have any issues using a standard vice to be honest. If I was doing more gunsmithing or doing it for money, then maybe I could justify the cost. Thanks for watching my video and for your comment!

[@TheCamaro5]

If it’s a one piece scope mount and your countertop or table is level you don’t have to worry about leveling the gun. You can take leveling the gun out of the equation.

[@crazyhawk99]

You have my curiosity. If the gun isn’t level, even if the table is, how can you level the scope? Frankly, the table doesn’t need to be level at all, but the scope must be trued to whatever plane the gun is on, so if the gun is a half bubble off of plumb, your scope needs to be the same.

[@howardschwartz1462]

What type of rifle vise are you using?

[@crazyhawk99]

This is the Tipton/Wheeler (same company really) Ultra Vice. It is very handy for jobs like this but for any heavy wrenching you would need to secure the vise to a bench or something. They also sell an optional stand for or. I have that as well. I like both. Thanks for the question and for watching my video!

[@crazyhawk99]

www.midwayusa.com/product/1022492166

[@TMS5100]

@2:49 no manufacturer guarantees turret is level with the reticle. they don't even guarantee any flat surface on the scope is level with reticle. i verified this with vortex. projecting the reticle onto a plum bob or laser level works.

[@djpdjp707]

What is your gun vice called

[@crazyhawk99]

This is the Tipton/Wheeler (same company really) Ultra Vice. It is very handy for jobs like this but for any heavy wrenching you would need to secure the vise to a bench or something. They also sell an optional stand for or. I have that as well. I like both. Thanks for the question and for watching my video

[@duaneross9271]

Slick

[@VincitOmniaVeritas7]

One problem with the Wheeler system is that scopes can have tolerance stacking and the reticle might not be perfectly in line with the turrets. High end scopes probably will have less than 1º angular error from tolerance stacking, but in cheeper scopes, typically used for the fast dropping .22lr, this can be significant at longer ranges. I have the real avid kit and really like that it levels the reticle directly. It is specially useful for guns with a picatinny rail, and it pairs up well with their ultimate gun vise that has an angle adjustment knob. On old school rifles, it can be a little harder to level everything since there's no flat top hanguard. One have to be careful that while the kit is great to level the reticle (and not the scope turrets) with gravity, it doesn't guarantee the scope/reticle is leveled with the rifle/barrel. It is possible to have the reticle perfectly level and the rifle slightly canted (which some people find more comfortable) but i would advise against it since you would have an offset barrel which creates a whole new set of problems. That's why you should put a bubble level on the receiver, usually behind the scope or between its rings. The vise and table DO NOT need to be perfectly level (but they usually are anyway), just the reticle and rifle. Another tip is using the app "Measure" on your iPhone that can be more precise than a bubble level, measuring as little as 1º errors (just remember to remove the phone case, models with squared edges are better). I use it to even align barrel nuts / handguards and timing muzzle devices.

[@tbrown91241]

Why not just level the gun and use a plumb bob to level the reticle

[@crazyhawk99]

The plumb bob method can work, but you still must have a way to confirm the gun is level.

[@tbrown91241]

And not all levels are created equal

[@crazyhawk99]

That’s certainly true, but the extremely minor differences from one level to another are not significant in this context.

[@bobbellew9240]

Who timed your muzzle break 😢😢😢

[@crazyhawk99]

Nobody, because it’s not a muzzle brake. It’s a compensator. It only has ports on the top, no side ports. Before jumping to conclusions, you might want to ask a question or two first. Regardless, thanks for watching and for trying to keep me honest.