When a Watch Price Drops like a Rock, Pick up the Rock: Some great watches with Rock Bottom prices.

Looking for good buys on watches is what watch collectors do (or should do!) The watches in this video illustrate how you can get great deals by paying attention to great horology.

[@localheroEd]

My father taught me early the difference between price and value. If you keep your budget fixed when the sales come you don’t save money but you trade up in quality. With any product the key is research to know where the value is. Watching Bill is part of my research, regards Ed

[@watchartsci]

Hey Ed, why collectors don't do more research is beyond me-that's the fun part of watch collection. Take care, Bill

[@unsinn7647]

@@watchartscisdüüy😊😊ö😊

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[@Hardjoe888]

Nice video and so important to cover the issue of good watches hitting new low prices. For the Roger Dubuis (true of other brands too), u must really like their design. If u love ❤ it, go for it! The problem with most on this channel and I am no exception; we are technical collectors…which makes these pieces which are lesser loved by others, unique and special in our eyes 👀. We acquire them, while others may not give it a second look as they are not so fashionable or not likely to increase in price…but I think that works well for us. 😮😊🎉

[@watchartsci]

Roger Dubuis is not for everyone. The most popular watches often end up the most boring and least worn, Ardi. Take care, Bill

[@johnstyron6543]

Excellent Bill. I’m just constantly looking at watches to see if there’s a good bargain on a well made watch. Like you say, if the price has bottomed out on an excellent watch, that’s great for us watch lovers. Thanks for all the nice suggestions! I always have one eye on Van Cleef and Arpels and Parmigiani!!

[@watchartsci]

Well said John! Those two choices are sweet indeed! Take care, Bill

[@richgotti1719]

Another great video Bill…and the RD blue mineral dial is stunning and that Bovet you’re wearing is beautiful also…keep them vids coming

[@watchartsci]

Thanks, will do Rich! Take care, Bill

[@ScotchOnyx]

Definitely will pay more attention to those sell winding RD Excaliburs. Thoughts on Pierre Kunz Retrograde? Those precious metal use to retail for high 30k now you can grab them for low 10k. I read about Pierre Kunz worked for Patek before going to Franck Muller then disappeared from this earth.

[@watchartsci]

Kunz is a mixed bag with some great stuff, Scotch. Take care, Bill

[@FABM27]

Some of these watches may be “cheap” to purchase but will be very expensive to service. So this is something to keep in mind. Those who can afford the original MSRP can also afford to service but regular watch people have to be aware of this…

[@FABM27]

@@windsurfer_LA £4200 is insane even if its every 5 years. I love ALS and fancied getting one many times. Complicated watches probably need servicing every 5 years and parts probably wear out faster due to how delicate they may be…

[@watchartsci]

Fabm27 & Windsurfer-usually, these top tier watches have top tier service prices. Those from ALS are twice as expensive as my FP Journe that I just got back from service-and that wasn't cheap. So, here's the maths problem for you: Pay full AD price for a watch and pay the high service charge; OR pay a fraction of the full price and pay the same service charge? Take your time and think about it.... Take care, Bill

[@FABM27]

@@watchartsci Option 2 does not sound better Bill. It seems Haute Horology does come at a price!

[@watchartsci]

@@FABM27 Indeed!

[@jackmcclary2136]

Bill Sanders, the thinking man’s watch guru! I really appreciate your illumination of pathways that make higher horology accessible in a way that minimizes the potential for having to sleep on the couch. I’ve learned more about movements from your channel than all of the other watch content providers combined. Thanks Bill!

[@watchartsci]

As a 'guru' I should say something wise, Jack, like "The path to horological bliss is many nights on the couch!" Howzat? Take care, Bill

[@cesarrocha3138]

Thabks Bill! Some crazy values 😮❤😮

[@watchartsci]

My pleasure Ceasar! Take care, Bill

[@supremegalacticcommander2783]

Hi Bill, great video and have actually been looking at that first watch (Tonda Chronograph), wondering why the price dropped so much. Love a great deal and tend to go away from the crowd with my watch tastes. Got a great deal on my Blancpain Leman Flyback Chronograph, added a perfect RGM display back so now I can appreciate the incredible movement too!

[@watchartsci]

Remember H. L. Mencken's point, "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."-probably applies worldwide! That explains why some excellent watches have a price drop and some junky ones do not. Take care, Bill

[@masterdad-zf9po]

Some of the harry winston watches on display in the video are gorgeous. I do love some parmiagani watches

[@watchartsci]

Save & Search Master Dad. That's all I can do... Take care, Bill

[@dchekaldin]

@watchartsci Bill, could you please make a video about history and trajectories of Kunz, Dubuis, Frank Muller and Genta brands. It is hard often to understand if a given Kuntz is worth a look or not.

[@watchartsci]

Dimitri, I'll see. I have some videos on Roger Dubuis and Genta, ,but not Kunz nor Muller. Take care, Bill

[@BorisBidjanSaberi11]

Holy crap that Lapis Dubuis is beautiful

[@watchartsci]

It is nice Boris. Seems to have headed norther to 20k with some. Take care, Bill

[@zgfvavw3037]

They are not “cheap” because other buyers are blind/dumb, the are relatively inexpensive considering the complecation or quality of the movement, but because the case is to big/weird/small to common taste and the design is of the wall.

[@watchartsci]

Are you saying that the design is used in a buying decision more than the horology, Zgf? Unfortunately, that can be true. Take care, Bill

[@mogenshyldgaard6067]

Hi Bill, I got a Nomos Orion 36 (neomatik) with 50 % off the MSRP, because the shop was stopping selling Nomos. Best Regards Mogens

[@watchartsci]

Good going Mogens! That's the way to buy great watches! Take care, Bill

[@richardbartlett6932]

That's JLC is perfect but at only 38mm it's just too small for my wrist. I can't get comfortable at that size A 40mm version would solve my dress watch issue ..

[@watchartsci]

Yes, Richard, no sense in getting a watch that doesn't fit! Take care, Bill

[@zgfvavw3037]

A watch is more then a case or a brand or a movement to make it a “collectible” watch. Different stroke for different folks. But not many folks like these

[@watchartsci]

If you care too much about what others want you to like, Zgf, in terms of brand or popularity, are you really making your own decisions or letting others do it for you? Take care, Bill

[@BorisBidjanSaberi11]

Pierre Kunz is my pick for top horology for entry level pricing secondhand

[@watchartsci]

Yes Boris, PK is often overlooked...love his Equation of Time watch. Take care, Bill

[@smiffyLevel6]

I couldn’t find anything close to the prices stated by you Bill, they all seemed way higher?

[@watchartsci]

Smiffy, all of those prices are real-you've got to really search. Take care, Bill

[@vic321344]

I am looking for the manual of the van cleef&arpels dual time. Do you know anybody who could provide it?

[@watchartsci]

Vic, it might be in my VC&A watch box that my Van Cleef & Arpels Pierre Arpels Heure d'Ici & Heure d'Ailleurs came in. What is it you need to know-I'll see if I can find it for you. Take care, Bill

[@vic321344]

@@watchartsci thx Bill. I need to know how the dual time (with the calendar back) is adusted and what all of that means.

[@watchartsci]

@@vic321344 Is this the calendar you're talking about Vic? onlineonly.christies.com/s/watches-online-discovering-time/van-cleef-arpels-monsieur-arpels-dual-time-generation-calendar-no-2/100732

[@mrjm1957]

Nice one Bill that VC&A is actually mine although the watch is in Japan for import duties will apply. PM me if anyone is interested

[@watchartsci]

Mr JM, you mean you got the VC&A Dual Timer in gold? Why is it in Japan? Is that where you reside? Let me know; I'd like to hear your opinion. Take care, Bill

[@brendankeilthy8149]

Bill, It would be great if you mentioned where you find these pieces. The site / grey market / AD etc? I know it's part of the fun hunting these bargains down. All the best to you and yours, Brendan Ireland

[@watchartsci]

Brendan, better to learn how to look and search yourself. Think of 'secondary markets' ... not gray markets (a label by ADs to keep collectors paying full prices.). Google searches are the most common way I find great deals on watches. Take care, Bill

[@donaldduck7628]

A wonderful find. 😊

[@watchartsci]

There are plenty more out there for you DD! Take care, Bill

[@tetrixdog]

Does the Acme watch have a cyclops on the crystal by any chance?

[@watchartsci]

You'd have to ask their AD, GunDog ... Mr. Wily E. Take care, Bill

[@johnjennings8021]

Great content, as usual. Where did you find that JLS Master Geographic at that price?

[@watchartsci]

John, just a simple Google search. Take care, Bill (I wish I could tell you I was a genius... but no.)

[@michaelkalb2896]

As usual, great video content helping to explain the difference between horological value of a watch and the economic value of a watch. Collecting is in the eye of the beholder and each collector will have their own set of “values” for which they collect. Whether it be “Horological” value, “economic” value, “franchise” value (brand heritage, history, reputation), “Design” value or design ethose, “recognition” value (is the watch on my wrist recognizable) or some combination thereof. I think it is important to point out that focusing solely on “Horological” value might lead to great deals, however if a collectors priority takes into account all other value attributes, what might seem like a good economic value for a strong or high horology watch might lead to unintended consequences if the watch does not satisfy all the attributes that are important to a collector (whether said collector consciously prioritizes all attributes of value or not); hence leading to an unsatisfied post purchase. And then if the collector decides to sell the all-in economic value could unintendly become more expensive if said collector then goes to sell the watch due to such post purchase dissatisfaction. Watch collecting is a journey and you do a great job of educating collectors based on your own personal journey and watch collecting priorities. As each of our own journey’s mature, it is important to establish our own set of value priorities and apply them to the watches we acquire. Now, about that Roger Dubuis Excalibur white gold case and lapis dial…😋

[@watchartsci]

My advice, Michael, ignore the Lapiz Lazuli stoned-dial RD, while Bill is trying to get his mitts on one! Take care, Bill🤫

[@michaelkalb2896]

@@watchartsci I will let you get the best economic deal possible on that super horological valued watch! ☺️

[@watchartsci]

@@michaelkalb2896 I have no business at this time even thinking about another watch ... until I sell a couple of my own.... so go ahead, my friend. Take care, Bill

[@michaelkalb2896]

@@watchartsci After this upcoming Friday, I will be in your exact spot too!!!!!

[@xpdchief7698]

Fantastic video Bill. It never ceases to amaze me how you find these horologically significant watches at these great prices. I've been following a Roger Dubuis Excalibur for a few months now. I'm also very interested in the third Excalibur in the video (gold(?)/bronze(?)). Best regards, Brian

[@watchartsci]

Tell your wife you got the information from Tim Mosso...🤫 Take care, Bill

[@nizarmurar]

Dear Bill Many thanks again for great episode. I love the Parmigiani watches . It will be my next watch . All because of you ❤ I love their Hijri perpetual. Do you think because I am Muslem?😅 .Following your valuable advice ,I will keep digging for heavy discounts on same or other valuable Parmigiani Many thanks dear friend. WITH LOVE AND APPRECIATION NIZAR Israel

[@watchartsci]

Hi Nizar! The Hijiri Perpetual Calendar is a very special watch with brilliant horology by Michel Parmigiani. Here are some details: www.gphg.org/horlogerie/en/watches/hijri-perpetual-calendar Take care, Bill

[@nizarmurar]

@watchartsci Many thanks my friend. Have beautiful weekend Nizar

[@steveeber2324]

These are no doubt tremendous values. but it isn't hard to see why they are discounted so heavily. To most people these are just not attractive. While I might want some of them in a collection, I would never put any of them on my wrist.

[@watchartsci]

Keep in mind H. L. Mencken's dictum, "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.". A "tremendous value?" If your "value" is in following the herd and getting what's popular, you may be right. I'll take A watch by a top watchmaker and a Geneva Seal as a top horological value Steve. Take care, Bill

[@idletime]

G'evening Bill ☕☕ 🤠 .. for those that like Casio watches like myself need to keep a sharp eye on their local Wally Fart stores if they haven't been already. The Wally marts in my area are eliminating the jewelry counters in the stores and clearance pricing a lot of watches including some really nice casio's that you can get smokin' deal's on 🙃

[@watchartsci]

Idletime, that's a good find! Sounds exactly like the kind of place to look for the bottom falling out of MSRP prices. Take care, Bill

[@idrizo]

Love watching your videos, It's as if we are always on the same page! For instance I've been eyeing the Geographic, nothing else! God speed.

[@watchartsci]

سردار ادریس Great minds and all of that! Take care Bill

[@philhenderson3516]

Out of these, Parmigiani and Harry Winston are great buys!! Parmigiani in particular has been appreciating in value and some of their models are quite in demand!

[@DigitalPRCourses]

Only because you had the combo of the new King of England wearing one which drove brand interest at the same time they released new Tonda @ w&w and their PR did a fantastic job…. I’d been watching these used and noticed the increase in price and demand… it’ll tail off for sure again. I want one.

[@watchartsci]

DigitalPR, King Chuck had one ... liked them because of the watchmaker. Did Chuck ever adjust a regulator? Take care, Bill

[@solforrest498]

Great watches

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Sol! Take care, Bill

[@johnmonachelli5256]

I find joy in knowing the best watch content on KZbin is being filmed in a spare bedroom. Brilliant

[@watchartsci]

John... spare bedroom? This is the Intergalactic HQ of Watch Art Sci!😉 Take care, Bill

[@TimG--]

Great one Bill !! Nice video mate🥃

[@watchartsci]

Hey Tim! It's always 5 o'clock somewhere!🥃 Take care, Bill

[@runcoweezrun8143]

Hmmm....sounds like the Bill Haley hour.... One, two, three o'clock, four o'clock, rock Five, six, seven o'clock, eight o'clock, rock Nine, ten, eleven o'clock, twelve o'clock, rock We're gonna rock around the clock tonight We'll have some fun when the clock strikes one We're gonna rock around the clock tonight We're gonna rock, rock, rock, 'til broad daylight We're gonna rock, gonna rock, around the clock tonight When the clock strikes two, three and four 😎

[@watchartsci]

Bill Haley, Little Richard and Buddy Holly! My kind of rock & roll RunCoweez! And that's a perfect watch collector's song! Take care, Bill

[@runcoweezrun8143]

@@watchartsci We're MOT(Men Of Taste) Bill! 😉

[@rickjason215]

I need to buy my wife a watch for our anniversary. If anyone has a suggestion, I would appreciate it.

[@watchartsci]

Yes, Rick. Check out some of the Bovets. (worldofluxuryus.com/collections/bovet-1) Also, the Cartier Balloon Bleu is very popular for women ever since the Princess of Cambridge was shown wearing one. Take care, Bill

[@spacecadet6575]

Great video. But does this mean that the actual MSRP is not real in the first place? What could the BOM (Bill of Materials) be on a $65k watch if you can sell it for 10% of the MSRP? Just trying to understand...

[@watchartsci]

Hey Space...MSRPs are based on production costs and popularity and expected profits. Take care, Bill

[@freddysandoval9701]

That Generational Calendar must be amazing since you did not understand it in the first stance and you are very clever Bill. Beautiful watch!

[@watchartsci]

Thanks, Freddy. It's one of those things that isn't that difficult to understand, but you have to have it in hand, and it makes sense. Take care, Bill

[@govtfunded]

1,000% in agreement. I'm wearing an Acme Moonwatch at the moment, but a Geneva seal for the same price is much better.

[@watchartsci]

Those Acme's aren't bad, Guv, but like you say GS.... Take care, Bill

[@gszabo5978]

Gret video. Just curious how you find these deals and where do you suggest people go to find such great deals?

[@watchartsci]

G Szabo-we're having a live chat on that today! kzbin.infopzyfoaeTrT0?feature=share Take care, Bill

[@JPilz]

Thank you. Make second part of this video

[@watchartsci]

Monday, there'll be a VestPocket video with one I think you'll like, Mr. Pliz! Take care, Bill

[@aarneuuk9601]

Hi Bill! Thank you for the content! I've been following since I (mostly) outgrew the more popular YT watch channels. Your channel is a gem of true watch art and science. So so so much much much more than just marketing and hype. You are easily keeping me subscribed! I have a small note tho. Feel free to disregard. Your slides with the collages of pictures are well curated and informative, but sometimes the pictures are just too small for me to see well (watching on a tablet). I really like the way you present all the visual info at once, it instantly creates an overview of what we are going to discuss. But could you maybe enlarge all of the smallest pictures while you speak after a while? I know its a lot of editing work tho. And honestly it would only be a minor improvement. (It was the ratio between Wile E. Coyote and Parmigiani, that tipped me off, haha. But then I noticed, I couldn't really tell what the Van Cleef & Arpels caseback looked looked like without zooming.) Good luck with Lyrique and the channel! 👍

[@aarneuuk9601]

The text has always been big enough to read (for me personally)

[@watchartsci]

Hey Aaron, thanks man, I'm glad you like it. Take care, Bill

[@faizalhakim3772]

A real watch watch😊 Unbelievable buy true 😂

[@watchartsci]

That's it Faizal! Look for a real 'watch-watch' made by a luxury brand that most collectors overlook.😉 Take care, Bill

[@johnbell1859]

Great content Bill, thanks. 🇬🇧 Ps. The piece you’re wearing looks cool 👌

[@watchartsci]

Hey John, thanks man!

[@pardus8panthera5]

As much as this is good news for people like you, an expert in horology, it is also the very reason why the price of the same timepieces is, at the very least, subjective, or basically, whatever the average peasant watch buyer is willing & able to pay. It is therefore darn scary for the general market to partake in this purchase. Hence the pressure to buy what they know has a "value" on the re-sale market, as well as bragging rights on the wrist: buying the brand, not the watchmaker: Rolex, JLC, Patek & so on.

[@localheroEd]

You make a good point, although I wouldn’t include JLC as an example. The flip side is a limited preowned market for the watches which is why prices represent such good value.

[@waterfordrs22]

Even at fifty percent MSRP, most of the “general market, average peasant ” is likely not going to be able to afford a lot of these watches. I do think there is a growing interest in horology rather than simple specs such as power reserve, claimed accuracy, depth rating etc. Channels such as this one play a role in cultivating that more nuanced perspective. That said this idea of letting someone else take the hit, looking for good value is available at most any tier of watchmaking. It’s all about maintaining equilibrium, balance - don’t over extend, no your limits. Quite honestly, many of the watches Bill features I find very interesting in terms of horology but in terms of aesthetics, Harry Winston being a great example, they simply don’t appeal to me, but they are fascinating to read about. Many of these watches, you don’t need to Ken them to get something out of them.

[@watchartsci]

Pardus, the price is only an indicator of the popularity of a watch...in relative terms. The more a collector knows, the better the decision he'll make...about a good watch, what is available and about what he really wants. The lazy, unstudied collector gets what he deserves. I recommend the well self-educated collector who makes better decisions all around. Take care, Bill

[@UnseenHero]

Thanks for sharing Bill! I need to look into Harry Winston!

[@watchartsci]

It's a fun search even if you don't find anything that you'd like. The thing about HW watches Hero is finding who did the movement. If it's a retrograde, you can bet the module was done by Agenhor, and if it's a perpetual calendar, Roger Dubuis, but they often changed the base movement; so that's where the real job begins. Take care, Bill

[@JoseAlbertoSegura-nj9gf]

Thanks for the advice and marvellous insights Best regards

[@watchartsci]

My pleasure, Jose! Take care, Bill

[@Javi_C]

Thanks Dr. Always great to do your research, to save some money.

[@watchartsci]

Javi, you know I wouldn't be doing it were I not having fun! Take care, Bill

[@vitalikliber]

Thank you

[@watchartsci]

You're welcome Vitali! Take care, Bill

[@vitalikliber]

@@watchartsci What do you think or know about Romain Jerome watches please

[@watchartsci]

@@vitalikliber RJ watches seem a little weak on horology… check out their movements.

[@vitalikliber]

@@watchartsci I love my Titanic DNA steam punk with spinning prop in the middle , paid less than 5 for it

[@chinhwankim]

Thank you Bill~~!!

[@watchartsci]

You are very welcome chin-hwan! Take care, Bill

[@zgfvavw3037]

Movement is one, brand/percention is an other, but ugly is in the eye of the beholder. Conclusion of the first two watches; yes nice movement, great watch makers, but damn they are just so dated and ugly

[@watchartsci]

Yes, Zgf ... difference tastes abound. Take care, Bill