WHEN NOTHING GOES TO PLAN - Electrician Life

WHEN NOTHING GOES TO PLAN - Electrician Life
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#sparkylife #electricianlife #artisanelectrics

[@artisanelectrics]

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[@imark7777777]

Somewhere there's an engineer going noooooo! That structural integrity.

[@michealmcc1277]

Timber frame house, king studs cripples an sill studs all together lol

[@jonathanpurnell7189]

Oops just chopped into a structural timber frame 🥴

[@prolecelectricalservices3813]

We all make mistakes. The real integrity will come in how it is dealt with. I have no doubt Jordan will resolve it.

[@stevejagger8602]

There seems to be a general lack of knowledge about building structure. If you don’t understand what you are seeing then stop and enquire. Ask for building plans. It should be clear to anyone seeing a plastic membrane, behind plasterboard, that you don’t just cut through it because it is in the way, it is vapour barrier.and should remain in tact. Its presence should suggest that you need to stop and rethink the cable route.

[@FFT_Electrical]

10:09 Lee, you can buy the washers by the box from many online retailers, look for bonded or EPDM washers , ain't gonna fix the damage to the timber frame though I'm afraid

[@jonathanfriedrich2941]

As other mentioned definitely not okay to disturb that structural timber there. Let alone damaging the vapor barrier. Would have been better to run the cable from the unit to the bottom and then straight out through a small hole which is then properly sealed by tape.. The burry the cable near the house the last 2-3 meters to the charger

[@James-dv1df]

I think it's awesome you left this up as it taught me about timber framed houses. I think you should change the title so others can use this as a lesson and learn more

[@marksimpson3035]

Always a pain & mission being a sparky , I've been at it 30 years , mind keeps you healthy & alive ✌

[@brandonbrace2126]

Lee most random question but what brand phone case do you have on that phone and where can I find it from looking for a decent clear one but don’t want to buy the apple one with the weird circle on the back?! Cheers 👍🏻

[@olimiller1]

I hope the builder doesn’t see this one 🤣

[@Wetthewhistle]

😳 can’t believe what I just watched. Fair play for keeping this up and proving you guys are humans and everyone makes mistakes.

[@mikebarry229]

The worst bit of damage was cutting in the metal box, would definately have got away with it if just a shallow narrow vertical chase ideally done with a router. Fairly easy fix would be to rebate a 100mm wide steel plate say 6mm thick into the timber, bridging over the chase and extending 400mm past the metal back box (which now wont be needed, all fixed with dozens of countersunk screws. Would make amazing cable protection too! That just leaves repairing the vapour barrier, cutting back the plasterboard carefully to expose sufficient vapour barrier to join onto it with aluminium tape and polythene. Finish off with a new bit of foil backed plasterboard and good as new.

[@arniewheeler4673]

good job under the circumstances. well done chaps...

[@Chris_In_Texas]

10:50 all the structural engineers are crying and yelling at their screen right now watching you cut the structure out of the house! 🤦‍♂

[@JC-jv5xw]

Brits do not expect houses to be built like sheds..........

[@JensenPGATourDriven]

A tricky one to get cable in on this job guys , great job by the way ⚡️👊

[@bencrabb303]

Surely that timber is structural 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@amd4life89]

Also, vapour barrier?

[@montystelevision3238]

I shared this video with a surveyor I know and it seems the "timber yard" should not have been interfered with.

[@AAHornet86]

Fixing recessed back boxes Recessed back boxes can be fixed to horizontal noggins set back to box depth. Alternatively, dryline back boxes can be used. It is advisable that back boxes are fitted with an intumescent back pad (i.e. ‘putty pad’), to maintain the acoustic integrity and fire resistance of plasterboard partitions. No more than one two- gang or two one- gang back boxes should be installed in the same stud cavity. Back boxes should not be fitted back-to-back in the same stud cavity.

[@dannycrooks8462]

Just because the customer didn't want to put the cable outside I'd think twice before hacking into the main timber frame I definitely don't think it should have been done that way they should he stopped and got plans for that house and came up with proper cable routing that could have been a job to stay away from there is times were you just can't run cables were you want and that needs to be explained to the customer

[@brianoneill350]

I hope for your sake the customer does not get a structural engineer out to review what has been done as could be pretty annoyed. In general if it looks wrong, feels wrong and does not seem to work and make sense, don't do it.

[@michaeltye8853]

Yes sometimes the customer cannot always have what they want especially if it means contravening. Building Regs to achieve this ……do not cut out supporting structures.

[@johncorbett1130]

I,d tell the customer how it's going to be done and if they are not happy they can get someone else to it Drain pipe running down the route outside anyway, could have been hidden next to that. Quite sure the customer isn't going to sit in his deck chair looking at it ☺️

[@matthewdale956]

@@johncorbett1130 they dont care on the money they are on 😳

[@ianlove3]

Looks like you had fun doing this one.

[@Marks-Garage]

Everyone makes mistakes during their working life. Mistakes made due to laziness and lack of effort should be criticised but two guys cracking on and trying to do the job to the best of their knowledge shouldn't get slated. In the words of Albert E "A person who never made a mistake never tried" They will of all learned a valuable lesson and it will never be repeated.

[@williamdawson6351]

Somedays coffice alone is all you need but there are days that a shot of a something stronger is require just make it thru the day when everything goes wrong.

[@dyrectory_com]

I recently bought my first electrical meter and a soldering kit. Looking forward to all your other videos! 💡

[@andylombardi2815]

I'm so glad that I chose Industrial Maintenance for my electrical career! Fair play to all you guys out there who bash commercial and residential properties!

[@briwire138]

Same here. At least we don't have to contend with plaster board or moving furniture.

[@aaronc4914]

I am an apprentice spark and I find I learn more watching these videos

[@SuPrAmAd101]

learned what not to do in this video.. defo dont chase wood out like that

[@garybibby2698]

The fault in the van appears to be affecting all latest gen VW group cars. I have a Skoda Octavia now that is showing same ‘SOS call system fault’, among many others. They’ve got more bugs than London zoo!

[@MagicianMan]

That's a terrible idea.... Looks like its a timber frame house with brick skin. Those "joists" that you chopped out are the frame supports for the window frame and wall plates..... You would have been best taking the cable straight outside above the ceiling. You have effectively taken out some of the structural components of the framing you have also removed the vapor barrier (that silver membrane you cut) and will have created a thermal bridge & cold spot in the wall (which might cause rot in the wood later on). Not you fault the customer should have known that its a timber built house and let you know.

[@chrisardern4594]

Sorry to disagree with you but the house owner has given the installation job to a trusted contractor experience in this type of work. Unfortunately Lee has obviously never come across this type of build so has no idea what he has come across. I have mentioned before it would be advantageous for non building site trained contractors visit a new build site to see how these wooden houses are put together in this case Lee would have know not to do the cable run this way.

[@johncorbett1130]

Think all of artisan have a phobia about ever taking any floor up upstairs! Just love chopping holes in the ceilings too much! getting their knees dusty is a no no 😁

[@sleepingwarrior4618]

So it's not just me it goes to sh1t for then. These are the best videos. Nobody wants to see "nice an easy" jobs. We wanna see the mistakes and how they get fixed!

[@timhoward7037]

When you cut out that box....I thought only I had luck like that.( btw a router would cut you a nice channel in the wood.)

[@ggbalze06]

I would have run t&e from the board to that back box you put in

[@gadgetman36]

It looks like a timber framed property to me. It's the only reason that makes sense as to why there's so much wood in the corner of the room. I'm not sure that you should have chased it out.

[@SJM689]

Never seen a "timber yard" in a house before, but on a new build nothing surprised me anymore.......but nice to see a sparky that clearly didn't rush the board. That has to be the neatest board I have ever seen in a new build.

[@scottmulligan912]

Normally I love your videos/work but not on this occasion, Lee cut out an structural part of that building! Making the customers warranty void in process. I would recommend you go get a tradesmen to fix the issues you've caused.

[@nigelpulley2806]

Wrong, this wasn’t structural.

[@RichardArblaster]

14:02 😆😆😆

[@abhijeetchandra4657]

That intro 🤣

[@Jonbuildz]

This is my pain doing the majority of jobs around a new build, It's a nightmare.... however I agree with the guys below... we want to see more of this. PS must be a timber built home rather than standard block as I've never seen that amount of wood in mine!

[@brad30]

Great work Lee! 👌🔥

[@glennstephenson5747]

Lots of big square holes. Pain to fit back. Use a 100mm hole cutter instead.

[@nzer19]

Questionable structural modifications aside, as a customer I always appreciate tradesmen who go out of their way to do a less easy and longer job in order top provide a more cosmetic result. Many tradesmen just want to do things as easy and as fast as possible not caring about leaving behind a dog’s breakfast.

[@andrewpowell6457]

That's not enough wood in a house You want to see some of the houses in New Zealand Most of our houses are timber framed or some modern ones metal framed

[@djburland]

Good job despite all the problems

[@Joe-zq6ql]

Jordan and his electricians are still in the learning progress and charges top dollar what's not to like.😂

[@makg4655]

IF YOU LIFT SAY 10 or so blocks put a plate under them then fix pedestal onto plate no need for concrete as the weight of 10 blocks is plenty

[@glennwoods7649]

What model Jackery do you use?

[@TheKeithorl]

That wood is a stud pack and is calculated to allow for load placed in that part of the building, it is structural and will be as designed by an engineer and a major part of the building structure. It is supposed to be that way and is not a "timbers yard" This should not be interfered with by chopping pieces out of it to run a cable.

[@williammartinculleton5875]

Not good practice to cut holes in the vapour barrier ?

[@anton3437]

@@williammartinculleton5875 avoid it if you can and if you need go trough it you have to reseal it

[@imark7777777]

I was thinking the same thing. They did a nice job of it though taking out only one of the middle. I would love to know how that change the structural integrity of it. Nowhere near the plumber that cuts all the joists to run the drain for the toilet.... You know you know all the ones holding the floor on the second floor.

[@TheKeithorl]

@@imark7777777 yes neatly done, but a lot of work and effort went into building it in the first place. Building control would then have to sign off on it. It will likely be ok but if this was done at the start I doubt any engineer or building control would sign it off if it had pieces cut from the stud pack. It’s like taking a slice of metal out of an RSJ. It’s very hard to calculate the effects. It’s not the end of the world and they guys are great and meant well they just didn’t understand what they were cutting into. More than likely it will be fine but if that was my house and the structure was weakened even if it was only a small bit for the sake of running in a cable I would not be happy.

[@callimero2409]

Lee is a king of "think twice and cut once" well done mate,,, i was surprised to see map of world with Slovakian writing on it 🌍

[@WillCornus]

it surprised me too :D

[@cliffedwards9472]

Could of took cable through to outside & clipped, saved all the gouging of timber…but Hey everyone’s got ideas. Fair play on all the Holes, hope the customer was happy, I only have to make a small hole they moan like crazy 😎

Nice one ! Plenty of challenges to sort out nicely! Well done

[@jasonw1207]

Always interesting content, but why armoured cable indoors when you had a service box outside to make a junctions for armoured outside only?

[@RJSElectricalCheshire]

It's not armoured, it's tough sheath EV ultra.

[@jasonw1207]

@@RJSElectricalCheshire didn’t take note, still very tough to manoeuvre internal. Suppose only benefit is data cable built in.

[@martinpeel7463]

You’d think that they would put a duct in for future proof when constructing these new builds, obviously in hindsight….

[@wil172921]

Hi Lee just a quick one, when you leave loose cables in the CU do you terminate them on the Earth bar for safety? I’m currently going through my training and I was told all spare cores must be terminated, I know your going back but just wanted to see what you did. Thanks

[@Daniells1982]

I doubt it mate because there's no exposed copper as the ends looked well taped up, so it would have just been dressed into some space in the consumer unit to be connected later. I think what you're getting at is if a cable has been installed with future expansion in mind where there are additional unused cores (common for control wiring) you're right and if it's powered up the unused cores should be oversleeved and connected to earth. This will avoid them becoming live and not operating the protective device under certain fault conditions.

[@wil172921]

@@Daniells1982 hi thanks for the reply. That does make sense. With there being no exposed copper and him returning to finish the job at a later date.

[@hahahahaha6412]

This needed a re think Jesus he’s knackered that timber

[@chrisardern4594]

Its only a support for the ring beam Lee dont worry about it im sure Jordan has excellent insurance cover. And as for all the moisture / insulation barrier well thats not really needed is it. But after that it is extremely difficult to work in new build no one wants to demolish a new home and all considered Lee and his boy did a nice clean job as expected. Would it not have been easier to drop the cable down the soilpioe boxing and then into the CU from the LHS.

[@rondo122]

Neat job, well done Lee, as always!

[@oyleyhands1332]

I think a customer signed waiver may be in order if he is happy for you to cut into a membrane and a structural part of his poroperty , all for the sake of asthetics... assuming he realises what has been done !

[@AS19283]

What’s the cable fishing camera? Just a random Bluetooth camera or a specific tool?? Cheers

[@Matt-td9wx]

I believe it’s a ferret camera

[@AS19283]

@@Matt-td9wx You are correct, thanks! A quick google has found my next tool purchase. £95 for the lite version which should be fine for most things, certainly better than me poking around with some galv wire and using intuition.

[@Matt-td9wx]

@@AS19283 That’s great ! Glad I could help :)

[@paulahamilton7290]

You put the new blank box in the kitchen at a different height than the existing sockets that would drive me crazy

[@effervescence5664]

So on this new build those studs grouped like that are quire likely structural, wood structure brick veneer is becoming more common. It would have been wise to stop work and find out from your local relevant sources if it is or isn't. We've had several cases in Surrey and Sussex where charger locations have had to be completely redesigned because stud packs have been running from the ground floor to the roof to support the main structure. I would advise you check before the job is completed. Otherwise tidy work.

[@lewistempleman9752]

Will building is collapse?

[@effervescence5664]

@@lewistempleman9752 That entirely depends on the structural threshold of the design by the engineers. Was it designed to just meet requirements or exceed them, more importantly was it actually built as per design. Worst case probably not but may find settlement cracks appear due to building weight shifting. Regardless the inner skin of domestic buildings be it masonry or wood is the load bearing portion. Care should be taken when discovering stud packs on UK buildings as wood framing is not a widely used construction method in the UK.

[@George-kj6bm]

@@lewistempleman9752 on this occasion, most likely not. But say this approach was adopted on thousands of houses, some, maybe just one, would. That alone makes it unacceptable.

[@jacopo.scarpellini]

So this house has an external masonry wall, insulation and then an internal structural timber structure that holds the joists?

[@mikebarry229]

Yes, the external masonry is just cladding erected after the house is built, the insulation will just be between the structural timber frame, and there will be an uninsulated cavity between the frame and the masonry.

[@zxdezier4487]

Still using makita ? I thought Jordan sorted the hilti gear job lot.

[@brianoneill350]

Did they not teach you guys anything about timber frame in electric school 😂

[@alsanova]

Nice new build and tidy CU but oh boy what have you both done?! Reading other comments and I will have to agree on butchering structural timber, membrane, new home warranty, etc. That made me cringe a bit. 😳😬

[@brendanfisher2528]

Nightmare. Obviously inner skin is a timber frame. Great work.

[@jackwatson1674]

I blame Corey for this... "I wish Lee would mess up" ta da ! Your wish is granted!

[@JC-jv5xw]

Perhaps a new nickname for Lee - Bob Wreckett

[@hahahahaha6412]

That chase is huge Aswell for 1 cable

[@RichardArblaster]

Great video 😎

[@chelsealion3]

By drilling/butchering out that quad joist you have compromised on the structural integrity of the building, those studs are supporting the lintel over the window which in turn supports the floor joists and structure over. You have also cut through the vapour control layer which could lead to issues in the future with moisture, and undoubtable voided the building warranty in the process. Not only have you done this you have also posted it on youtube, I feel as though there is a complete lack of understanding of timber frame construction. Cowboys come to mind when watching this, the damage you have done to the structure needs to be rectified, studs replaced and the vapour barrier repaired.

[@Daniells1982]

I agree, there's been a lack of understanding from a construction point of view that could lead to potential problems but this method of construction is hardly future proofed for work like this is it? Asking for trouble. How many people want additional outside lights, EV chargers, outside sockets, outside taps, supplies to gardens rooms, etc. where the vapour barrier is compromised.

[@chelsealion3]

@@Daniells1982 I agree, its an issue when it comes to doing additional works in the future. However developers like timber frame as it goes up a lot quicker and is generally cheaper compared to traditional blockwork, it also is lighter so often there are savings to be made on foundations as well. There are methods of resealing around electrical boxes etc. so that the vapour barrier can be reinstated. The key thing here is once its been identified as a timber frame building you should expect to see timber studs like this at each of the openings and they need to be avoided.

[@Daniells1982]

@@chelsealion3 totally agree. It's a training issue I suppose. As these become more common I suppose there's an argument to start including the correct way to do in apprenticeships, more CPD opportunities available for sparks and plumbers etc. on these types of construction methods.

[@Vwfan]

To be fair I’ve been in construction since I was 21 in 1991. Structural engineers over engineer everything and these guys wouldn’t of done anything to upset the strength of the building. That’s the trouble with this world nowadays. Snowflakes is the word I think that comes to mind lol. Watch the replies now that will come back to me saying that I’m not experienced in such matters. Royal Marines till 21 years old then construction since then. Your jobs ok Lee 👍🏼❤️

[@Matt19271991]

100% agree with this, hope the clients house insurance don't see this.

[@nzer19]

Is the second floor of the house now held up by a 2-gang wallbox? 🥶

[@Sparks1Plumbers0]

Occasionally there is a case for not filming a job, especially ones you have to bumble through to make any sort of headway. Just because the customer wants something a certain way does not mean you have to give in to their lack of knowledge where building structure is concerned. Something so clearly demonstrated by thinking you could bolt down that columb onto loose lay blocks outside. Let alone hacking into the timber structure/vapour barrier. TBH, less Artisan and more Bodge-it & Scarper. 😉

[@btmanbirdman1]

Nice neat job Lee, maybe put a single not double back box in , then you not chiseling out more wood on the supporting beams

[@adamward968]

What tool/camera kit is he using anyone please??

[@johncorbett1130]

Feret camera someone said above

[@ADF-js9vi]

Fit the charger to the kitchen wall? 🤔

[@morek3l576]

"Never seen anything like this before" Its called a quadruple post part of a timber kit build. Pretty standard stuff

[@alltechinbox]

Sounds structural 🙄

[@duncancox4905]

There was always going to be a heap of wood in that area 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@sosome1]

Is there any regulation in Uk on where to install consumer units? Because in the videos i always see them installed in weird places.

[@ItzD3fW1sH]

I don't believe so no, and that's why they're here, there, and everywhere!

[@ItzD3fW1sH]

Having said that, they do tend to be under stairs in houses. Well at least in the ones I've owned or known about

[@isaacjohnson1734]

Not really, an electrician would normally put it in an accessible place, but most of the time its the customer; wants it high out of the way or hidden in basement or even under the stairs in a storeroom.

[@mikebarry229]

The main one electricians seem to forget (because it only applies to new build) is that the breakers need to be located 1350-1450mm above floor level. In multi row consumer units the bottom row should be at this height.

[@rob.1]

The house isn't going to fall down.

[@isaacd123id]

No worries about cutting that out . We do that here in the States all the time 😂

[@dang8795]

Oops, gotta say you were pretty unlucky for that wall not to be battened off to allow for a service gap before dpm & structural timbers

[@stevewilliam]

people in these comments talking like the house is gonna collapse because they drilled out a little bit of wood 🤣

[@johncorbett1130]

It's being rebuilt as we speak 😂

[@theincredibleminecraftbuil9058]

Love this video you are so amazing love you guys

[@whitebeltlyfbjj3393]

I never seen a db flushed in wall like that

[@AfifAhmad]

This is why I hate doing residential work

[@isaacjohnson1734]

Its only good when everythings up, no flooring

[@johncorbett1130]

Hell, been doing it 28 years and avoid almost all of it now earn peanuts but none of the stress and nightmare jobs!

[@paulteasdale7112]

Yikes. Think you should really sense check some of the content before it goes out. If I had a timber framed house I wouldn't let you guys anywhere near it! I know that 'real world' is important but showing people you've chopped out rafters or through a glue lam beam, or taken out a vapour barrier is just bad practice without a retraction or addendum. Like it or not, with success comes responsibility. You guys have both and should look to that.

[@jimreece7615]

Bodge

[@matthewjohnson3408]

Isn’t the cable within 150mm of the corner and therefore within zone?

[@tompickford2697]

My thoughts exactly

[@lionelwhyte5915]

One of your best videos to date

[@fredjoyce4914]

A nail holding plasterboard up?!

[@isaacjohnson1734]

Lol, was thinking that too when he said it

[@andrewstandley8554]

Hi Jordan , normally love your videos, but these guys haven’t a clue what they are doing ie , drilling into structural timber for cables and breaching timber frame membrane maybe not five star electricians. Suggest some five star training !!!!

[@mikethemask1525]

What else could they do there wasn't another way to get the cable outside what they did was what 100% of all electricians would do

[@dd9332]

@@mikethemask1525 100% what many would do, but 1,000% not what someone who understands how buildings are built would ever do (I'm not an electrician, engineer, or involved in the industry) The cable should've been run externally, against the existing duct, even if the customer didn't want that, it's their only option other than running an internal conduit. Chasing one stud out was bad enough, chasing through the top plate was questionable, cutting most of them to put a lightweight box in was horrible. Not restoring the vapour barrier was the least of their problems. (Oh, right, a nail holding plasterboard up?? That's a screw buddy..) I would be shocked if Jordan hasn't had at least one builder/engineer call his phone after this video...

[@BakedTuber]

Real world electrics. If the house was so perfect they should of anticipated an outdoor ev charger

[@tobysherring1369]

@@mikethemask1525 there's nearly always another way.

[@tobysherring1369]

@@BakedTuber if a plumber doing "real world plumbing" cut through a cable, this channel would be full of criticism of the plumber. Why does an electrician take precedence over a structural engineer's plans? Does a plumber take precedence over an electrician? No one should be destroying another trade's work and not putting it right. Someone should have planned this job - he says 'didn't go to plan' but there was no plan.

[@joe2395]

You are going to have the same with a concrete plynth unless you go in deep

[@suilfisean]

To all the back seat drivers in the comments here... they did what the customer _asked_ them to do. Ultimately he is the one that has to _live_ with the changes. He can get whoever he likes in after the fact to try to remediate (steel reinforcement and patch the vapour barrier or whatever), but once there's a big ugly conduit out the front of your house, not a whole pile you're gonna be able to do about that. I can understand why he asked them to proceed that way.

[@johncorbett1130]

Just wondering how all the damproffing experts go about ever drilling a hole through a wall without effecting the membrane

[@SuPrAmAd101]

9:20 Who's vans worse, Lee's or Andrews? emm I mean Jordan :P

[@angenieux]

Great job guys nothing is ever simple

[@terenceclark4290]

The multiple studs are carrying a lintel over the window aperture an are totally structural and should not be played with without a structural engineers check.

[@Macmonkey1000]

Yup, each stud makes up for the one that's missing on the 600mm wide bays in the window opening. We all get a bit of tunnel vision when trying to get a job done but those studs really shouldn't have been weakened like that.

[@seanet1310]

I saw in a later video Jordan said they were reviewing if this was a problem structurally. Has anyone seen the outcome?

[@artisanelectrics]

All fixed now! Vapour barrier had to be replaced but the wood was not structural so was left as is, all re plastered and decorated and a happy customer left with a working Tesla charger.

[@williammartinculleton5875]

Interesting indeed, a little surprised that Jordan allowed it out to the channel. However it proved that “we” are not experts in everything ! “ A little knowledge is a dangerous thing” . I would not recommend cutting into timber structures or vapour barriers. Note these are not teaching videos !!!

[@alsanova]

More of how not to video! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@edc1569]

Why doesn’t every new build doesn’t have a bit of 6mm to a socket for upgrading to an EV point later.

[@PaulBeattie1]

Because building standards are garbage. The minimum which needs to be installed has to handle 3.6kW charging minimum. So 2.5mm it is. Got to save those pennies

[@Daniells1982]

Building Regs are changing at some point this year to include EV chargers on all new build installations. Doesn't help the lads with this one though.

[@lukemaskell385]

I'm doing a development of 159 units every house has a ev charger as standard.

[@hahahahaha6412]

Other than that good job

[@Ted_E_Bear]

Thanks for sharing the video !

[@heladas90]

What work trousers are them Lee's wearing?

[@liamchristie8671]

I asked Corey that question the other day, I think they are the same as his. I looked them up and they are Blaklader I think, I may be wrong, not cheap though 😂

[@heladas90]

@@liamchristie8671 thought they mite be, they are the ultimate trousers though, I seem to be going through nearly two pairs of scruffs a year though

[@artisanelectrics]

Yeah they are Bläklader

[@liamchristie8671]

@@heladas90 scruffs are the best trousers I’ve found at the moment, I’d like to try these if I know they are going to last, I may have to invest.

[@heladas90]

@@liamchristie8671 yes I like the pockets and the look but they are cheap for a reason, they do not last.