When Poor Communication in Low Mythic+ Pug Keys causes Chaos...

[@Taedas123]

Metro you missed the best part. The monk can spec into a soothe. You can make paralysis remove enrage haha😂

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya, that's hilarious!

[@dirusj4006]

Came here to say this... and brew has points to spare if you actually want it.

[@DaikoLP]

Instead of a brain i have the: Turn Chat off function 😂

[@Neo_wow]

I think there has to be a fine line when it comes to communication in mythic+. Like I especially dont like when people tell me, a Tank, how to do Things and blaming every death on me, which has become a common Thing. But Saying hello at the Start and discussing minor Things like Lust etc is totally fine

[@Vis_Electra]

100% agreed. Saying hello and minor things like lust or in my case range kicks if I set up massive pulls (1st pull in Necro) is fine. It's the 'chatter' I could really do without. Especially when my dps try to tell me how my class works or that I can indeed grip mobs together with Sigil of Chains. Also: people who comment on my route with a surgical precision. Major red flag.

[@silviodCardoso]

​@@Vis_Electra tip. Never ask your tank to change the route. You will have more problems than performance

[@knogne5073]

@@silviodCardoso yup, i hate it when they try to make my change my route or question if we will have percentage, have had multiple times now in DB and GB that people are like "we're too low percentage" close to the end, or telling me to pull sleeping ogres for percentage and then dont even apologize when theyre proven wrong. I know my route 100 percent ive done it a million times, i know percentage. It just annoys me.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, for me any chatter is too much, but I get that not everyone agrees.

[@Muftaay]

The problem is that fine line is different for everyone. And Tanks expecially are soooo soft when it comes to even the slightest bit of criticism or suggestions. I've ran a GB once and no words have been exchanged at all up until the dragon boss. Everything went super smooth. One of the dps asked the tank: "can you tank him in that corner?" and pinged the location. The tank answered: "Do you want to tank?". Like wtf? he just asked a simple question, didn't even blame him or anything. Tanks like to feel high and mighty. I've played with a tank that got mad when you gave him an external without him actually needing, or asking for it. Ok then I'll keep my 2 charges of pain sup for the entire dungeon because that's very efficient right?

[@darinbourque78]

Monk can soothe if talented

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

funny stuff!

[@jason8077]

Monks are basically extinct into oblivion 😂

[@el3ctros]

@@heythereguysitsMetro yeah it's a talent to make paralysis in to a soothe also 1 min cd I believe. But the monk is the tank who was asking others to soothe so still dumb.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@el3ctros ya forgot about that talent haha

[@antonego9581]

i love these videos. they are educational and entertaining af. your delivery is hilarious. cant get enough of these although im dreading the day i open one and am in the key haha

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad you like them! Doubt anyone who watches this will ever end up in one of them though, simply because you know enough about what NOT to do by watching these now.

[@HowNowBrownCow69]

That spirit link pull was wild.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya never saw something like that before!

[@walrusdojo]

I think a big contributor to people being in keys they aren't ready for is the current key system. As an example, you could have a +2 Grim Batol, double upgrade that, double upgrade the next key, single upgrade the next and now you've got a +7 and let's say it's another Grim Batol. Now you're gonna run that key but the last time you ran it was at a +2. There's such a big difference in what is dangerous in a +2 GB and a +7 GB that you haven't experienced but bc you timed some other keys near that level you might think it will be fine. Idk what the solution is. I don't think it's a solo queue system, but I do think something should change.

[@VDHmain]

Plus going from 11 to 12 is basically 11 to 14 because of the Guile and the loss of the buff from the affixes. That would have basically been going from 22 to 28 in DF, a gap most people could not handle.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya sadly the squish helped but not enough it seems.

[@Muftaay]

There is no solution, because there is no problem. It simply got harder and people weren't ready for it and learned the hard way

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Muftaay Right, he is saying a 9 is too late to be learning the hard way.

[@naderm.7701]

@@Muftaaythe solution is going back to key bloat so that we have gradual increases of difficulty. Look at how many players are hardstuck at 11s just because 12s are a giant leap

[@notafurry9456]

I did a 14 mist, at the maze part the healer pinged the right way while we were still fighting trash and a Paladin ret, thought the pings meant that the tank wanted him to pull trough the wall, we wiped because he pulled trash on top of an already dangerous pack. Probably my first and last time getting invited to a 14 sadly :)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya stuff like that is exactly what we are talking about here basically!

[@ThomasBachler01]

Ret can pull through the wall?

[@jgn1977]

The tank knows his squishiness and how tight the timer is. He was completely fine to time it. If the DPS just STFU and dps and let the guy run the key, they probably would have been fine.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Probably. But his attitude towards it all makes it worse.

[@Zammy-gj8xn]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I guess that's true, but having a dps trying to set the pace can definitely throw a tank off - not everyone is good at just being like "yeah that person doesnt know what theyre talking about - whatever." Having just gotten to tank some 12's this season, I feel like the number one reason a key fails instantly is just due to wiping (usually when big pulls are happening). I'd much rather take a smaller pull every now and then to guarantee getting through something than having a wipe on my hands. Sure many of my timers are pretty tight but if we're not dying, chances are still high the key gets timed with small pulls.

[@dirkgoodman4282]

The dps telling the tank how and what to pull is a huge problem in low keys. There have been dps pulling mobs in my keys on purpose. When that happens, I just leave. I plan my cds around my route. If a dps is pulling for me it's get out of wack

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I don't blame you for not putting up with that.

[@dirusj4006]

Been wiped in mists maze because someone thought it was a good idea to pull through a wall without saying anything. Then was confused why it went badly.

[@Soulessdeeds]

Yup same here. If they wanna play tank I let them. I give them a warning out of respect for the keyholder. But if they do it again. I dip out. I refuse to let people like that decide what the route is and what to pull. They are more than welcome to roll tank and do it themselves.

[@ThomasBachler01]

But that is not what this video is. Not only did the monk not plan his CDs, he didn't use them and he split pulls that are harmless and then tried to combine pulls that are the worst to combine - he had no clue about any routes obviously. Acting like this is the same as you having a proper route with pulls around your CDs just hurts your own cause. We have to call out bad pulls when they are bad and these are just very bad pulls - not to say that that was the only or even biggest problem here.

[@7755fgh]

Bro I love these epic fail mythic pug videos, when I watch your video I laugh every time lol

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

They are hilarious some times!

[@7755fgh]

@@heythereguysitsMetro ye I love the way they interact and sometimes trash talk each other it’s hilarious to watch, id hate it to happen if I did a key but for entertainment purposes it’s funny to watch

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@7755fgh Ya its worth laughing at the failure always!

[@kingsargonii6939]

DPS need to learn dungeons. They almost NEVER hard focus the most dangerous targets to the tank in trash pulls. Forcing you to hard kite or the healer to burn way more mana to heal the group. Certain debuffs will have a tank on the floor even with all the defensive CDs being used.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well in this case, this guy is just not prepared for the danger. This is a 9 after all.

[@kingsargonii6939]

⁠and tank is a brew master too.

[@hugofreitas6799]

You dont focus the tankbusters. You focus the casters. The tank busters always have a lot more hp.

[@kingsargonii6939]

@ I'm a protection paladin. Casters are useless against me because of Avenger's Shield. My wipes aren't cause by lack of interrupts. You can always cleave down casters.

[@Soulessdeeds]

@@hugofreitas6799 Not always. Some tank busters actually are harder on some tanks more than others. You can't look at it as a "Across the board" approach. Like Stonevault. There are mobs that use magic tank busters and not physical. If your tank is weak against those like most tanks are. Then you are leaving your tank kinda flapping in the wind burning through CDs while you are blasting casters that are annoying but not really as dangerous. And then you have the Enforcers in High Maul that have a stacking damage buff that eventually 1 shots your tank because everyone is killing casters first to get away from having to kick. While the tanks fighting for his life lol. Stuns and CCs work on the Enforcers. But sooths are almost useless because they only remove one stack of the buff. So killing the Enforcers is the play to save your tank. The Casters end up being the cleave targets at that point. Plus some tank busters can no longer be kited. Fun change Blizzard made "yay".

[@dexascan90]

This is all so true. I usually play around the +11 level. Recently made an alt and doing +4s and people are SO chatty in comparison. Also, just a general inability to even get the dungeon; requiring summons, going to the wrong place etc

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@dexascan90 that's funny. The first video of the season we posted was a grim batol where we had probably over two full groups of people come and go because they couldn't figure out how to get to the dungeon before everyone knew there was a portal room.

[@snowballs2023]

​@heythereguysitsMetro I remember watching that live it was too funny.

[@dirusj4006]

All keys can be timed at a 10 being quick and clean. I timed a pug 10 Grim batol "no leaver" with the dps leader way undergeared (he did just over 700k overall) purely because we did nothing fancy. Dont need giant pulls, "skips" or any other stuff these people see Yoda doing. Its a pug 10... not an organized 15+

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You don't, for sure. But some of those pulls are very basic combination spots. If he did what I suggested he wouldn't be in any more danger and he would make the dungeon even faster. But then again he isn't even using his defensives so all bets are off in terms of him surviving.

[@Orcwarknoxx]

Monks can soothe now if specced into it now. But most monks don't realize they can.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, neither does this one haha

[@Slicer1230]

All i gotta say is, the tank knew what he was capable of but the team was putting extra pressure for no reason. sure maybe he can't pull fast enough to time it but you can atleast make it a clean run for loot and vault

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya sadly the group puts a lot more pressure on him than they should/

[@Zammy-gj8xn]

I think he was going okay with his pace. I do the same pulls that tank does and timed it on a 10 with 3 min to spare - there's way more time than you think.

[@djlancer88]

I fast forwarded it right to that epic spirit link drop lmao bro.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha ya that was wild

[@ThomasBachler01]

Man, next dungeon is going to be a breeze with all the Fort brews and BLs we managed to preserve in this one.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

hahahaha

[@TheFinQ]

Monk can soothe with paralysis

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

funny stuff!

[@GrappIer]

Honestly, as a tank I tried completely deleting chat so I can't even see anything and I just tank and treat the rest of the group as NPCs and it was great.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha ya I don't blame you! But sadly, they are still typing and tilting whether you see them or not.

[@DEADLY12GUN]

Brewmaster is probably one of the hardest if not the hardest tank to play especially so this season. It is really hard to stay alive on as brew so really alot of that falls on the healer to use those big heals and shields on the monk. I can see the double overseer pack working on a tank with better survivability like a prot pally or prot warrior with demo shout. but yeah brew is kinda forced to pull smaller packs to live.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, seems rough.

[@Thorkou]

Idk if its a setting but, when ever someone pings it usually says in chat for me. 2 stun totems, dk can chain of ice.. ton of ways to make enforcer's not go wild.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya must be a setting.

[@Gleobrew]

ive noticed when im playing my dps alt doing weekly 10s some tanks think theyre playing hardcore classic and pull 1 pack at a time like this guy was. very frustrating

[@jgn1977]

Conversely, not every key is a 15 and needs double and triple pack pulls. You can easily pull 1 pack at a time in almost all the dungeons and still time them at a 9.

[@Gleobrew]

@@jgn1977 your dps doesnt wanna fight 3 tings a time and do 1.4m overall. your healer is going to be bored because there no damage going out. that is not how you do a key.

[@jgn1977]

@@Gleobrew Who the hell cares what the DPS want. If you want to control the pace and the group, roll a damn tank. If not, shut the fuck up and let the tank do his thing.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Gleobrew This is absolutely how you do a key. The #1 priority is to upgrade it. If that is not your #1 priority, stop pugging.

[@dirusj4006]

No and especially not Grim batol. It's full of pulls that should never be triple pulled and many shouldn't be double pulled in a pug. And many tanks won't pull bigger unless the dps show they can handle it because more often then not thier damage is too low, they stand in fire, they don't kick or stun anything and it's usually a mix of all of the above. You want to see big numbers? Earn it or stfu

[@holyzynlord]

Watching the monk die on that trash pull with dampen and fortifying available hurts

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, rough stuff there.

[@FoxiestDuck]

I need to figure out how to record without tanking my pc. We did a +2 siege, mage after dying to first boss left. We missed the key by 15seconds, because my bear ass slow with bearly any skill

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I think recording really has a low impact on your performance now tbh. I stream and record and my CPU and GPU load barely changes compared to just playing the game.

[@vermil4894]

About chatting i can agree that the least amount of chatting is better in low keys, but when you are attempting some "prog keys" for you, like 11-12+, some chatting about lust timings, or maybe some techs would be nice imo. After key start i would't chat without big reason, like calling bl or telling when i need to drink. Talking in key is very distacting, pings are more then enough. This pull after 2nd boss is rly hard in general and on tanks specifically and i wouldnt recommend doing it if dont know EXACTLY what you are doing. There are 3 magic tankbusters in this pack, molten giant mob also debuffs everyone with +20% fire damage taking and its fire damage tankbusters. There are also 4 caster mob, 3 of them having channel stun. I would not attempt this pull without coordinated group or atleast prot paladin

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya that pull is insane. Dunno if he did it just because they were making fun of him or what.

[@VDHmain]

As a prot pally I'm terrified of this pull. I think I'd rather pull Throngus on a Flame Giant instead; haven't tried it in a 10+ yet but it's easier than adding 2 flamerenders on the Giant on a 9. Just gotta kill the Giant before Throngus swaps weapons. If I don't have Spellwarding or Divine Shield, those Flame Giants are tough to deal with and require very careful CD planning with 100% spellblock. The Flamerenders' Slash melts my face even with defensives up.

[@necrolicious]

it makes me wonder if no one said anything and the tank pulled at his own pace if the key would have been easily timed. I expect people to ninja pull in low keys, but in a 9? How do you make it to +9 without knowing every dangerous mob in the dungeon? everyone in the group proved they are doing a dungeon they shouldn't be doing: 1. The tank should know which packs can and cannot be combined. 2. Healer shouldn't be ninja pulling trash or bosses......can't believe I typed that. 3. None of the DPS had any idea how to communicate properly, saying "baby pulls" doesn't help anyone. Although there was an attempt when it was explained that they wanted big pulls for cooldowns. Which was promptly forgotten when they killed the first boss with presumably no cooldowns used.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya 100 percent of no one speaks this is an upgrade.

[@__rezin__7819]

Calling a 9 LOW is kinda elitist it feels like idk. seems like 2-6 low 7-10 mid 11-15 high idk. Thanks for the video tho, i enjoyed it :)

[@Ougagagoubou]

The new barriers of 10 and 12 definitely start "next levels" in current system. But yeah I agree that +9 isn't laughable enough to be treated as "wait until you see this". I expected a +5 too.

[@deenman23]

12+ is where high starts 10 and 11 is basicaly the same

[@francischabot1412]

@@deenman23 There's something in between low and high though. I would not call a 9 a low key. Maybe 7 would be low.

[@deenman23]

@@francischabot1412 its also depends on your ilvl

[@konekopon2865]

a truly important distinction and a discussion the community really needs to have. a million egos shattered in a second when he said 9 is a low key

[@TheFinQ]

6:16 monk pulls two packs both dampen harm and fort brew not used love to see it

[@TheFinQ]

went through the whole video and he has not used fort brew once and dampen harm couple of times. when people are complaining about how tanking got harder this is why, you can no longer survive on active mitigation alone and actually have to use your cooldowns

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya honestly you are exactly right here. Being a bad tank is way way harder. Passive mitigation is not sufficient.

[@TheLeroy125]

I don't think anyone in this key was ready for this key. You have to wonder if the tank was planning to double pull the area around second boss from the get go, cause if he was, the key was doomed before they ever even started. That's just a massive lack of knowledge of dungeon mechanics. I don't see how we can feasibly defend anyone in this key. The tank was bad and clearly underprepared (we just don't use fort brew ever?). The healer is hard casting chain heal o_O. The mage is more than likely low ilvl or missing a both of enchants, or both, also chooses not to use alter on big aoes, interesting choices. It would explain why he takes more damage and his dmg output is kind of meh. I did an alt disc priest m0 to 10 this week and I couldn't survive the umbral wing on my 605ilvl disc in a +10 (knew so beforehand because of not even close) but it doesn't matter as people LoS that in high keys anyway. I also could not live the giant's aoe without shield or fade up and the self flash heal 10% DR xD (again, knew this going in) so i was always ready for the cast and i had desperate prayer rdy to increase my max health just in case a random bolt was aimed at me.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya, you are right about all this. But this type of video isn't about placing blame or defending anyone or anything like that. Just showing how the miscommunication can end a key, and how even through all the issues, they could have easily succeeded here if not for it.

[@Sebastian_Ulamog]

What I have instead of a brain right now is a gameplay of this arcane mage who has not ONCE pressed Alter Time. Imagine not ever using a CD that gets you back to 100% hp every 50 seconds. I started playing healer in m+ (doing up to +7 for now) and people are just, well, bad - why talent into defensives if you do not plan to use them...

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Make sure you record the runs and send in any crazy moments!

[@Brinks-Stonevault]

Atleast you got some communication, the low keys these days I am in, peope tend to ignore chat completely.. not saying a word for the whole run😢

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well... That would be my preference lol. Did I not make that clear with this video? These guys are back seating the dude into his failure and a disband. No communication would lead to an upgrade

[@Brinks-Stonevault]

@@heythereguysitsMetro yea i get where you coming from, but no communication at all! it feels like there is no social aspect to the game anymore. hop in a key, we do it, we leave. Not a thank you, no GG just nothin.. back in classic etc we would socially interact way more.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Brinks-Stonevault Challenging content like this is not the place for that kind of communication. Plenty of opportunity it outside still. But in stressful situations, the less socialization the better. We are there to accomplish a task, first and foremost.

[@madDjakni]

I think it depends on what kind of chatter, I don't mind discussing the key or some light socializing before the key starts it's an mmo talking to each other is expected. However if it's just a bunch of ranting about past keys/groups I think that's a yellow to mild red flag and if they're just straight up being weird or talking nonsense it's a red flag. Also anyone who mentions being either drunk or on some kind of drug immediately makes me want to leave before the key starts cause I'm not dealing with drunk/high strangers on the internet. Idk sometimes I like to run the two little shitters along the gauntlet but other times I like to pull them into the last pull before the bomb run just depends on the group I'm in and whether I remember to pull them in or not. Hahaha that boss pull by the Shaman was unfortunate, I've had that happen so many times where my target dies right as I'm tossing an ability out and it just auto targets the nearest viable target, or I tab right as something dies and it just targets the next enemy in range granted it's slightly less dangerous for me as I'm usually the tank but it can definitely lead to some bad wipes. The DK death there I'm pretty sure was due to casts going through and him just unfortunately being targeted by both, Mage on the other hand I'm pretty sure he's also just not using his defensives properly on top of being lower ilvl and a cloth wearer which just leads to him taking disproportionately higher damage :P

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

That lava surge was hilarious!

[@FragMaster93]

Id say the tank wasn't ready for that dungeon and tbf he knew it hence the "baby pulls" (and I'm with him there GB trash feels like it one shots me all the time) but as the run went on others started pulling more he couldn't handle and then at the end he tried to match them thinking they wanted 2 pack pulls without realising how deadly that pull is. Also this is a 9 its hardly a "low" key the damage is still quite intense for a majority of players and imo fortified is the harder affix this season as bosses are more predictable and repeatable while each trash pull has 3 mechanics going off at the same time with any number of overlaps taking people out hence the random bolt one shot so buffed trash means more of that, which outside of high co-ordinated teams is all too common.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

In terms of it being a low key, I'm just referring to any key below the maximum gear threshold for the great vault as low.

[@FragMaster93]

@ that’s fair I usually group them up to 6/7 is low 10/11 is mid and 12+ is high mostly around those affix walls.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@FragMaster93 ya this is just referring to blizzard structures. So anything lower than max vault is low. Now there is a "mid" too thanks to the changes so that being 10 and 11.

[@tekkaoz]

There is a sooth in the group, Monk.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha

[@nevarius9010]

yeah most of my best keys, the only thing that gets typed in party is 'gg' at the end.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yup 100 percent.

[@hugofreitas6799]

If they just W pack to pack they would have timed it. Its a 9 and with the extra 90 seconds you dont even need double pulls inany dgs.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yup

[@kindosar]

Straw instead of brain obviously lol

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha like the scarecrow in the wizard of oz!

[@exiiesaid8004]

What a weird group, at some point during that dungeon everybody done something strange or stupid. Personally I don't mind people talking in keys, I enjoy making friends that way, I just hate it when people are passive aggressive. it's so unnecessary...

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, really strange run for sure.

[@Sodacacik]

why are these people doing less boss dmg than ppl in +4?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Bad

[@pickkahandle]

so funny how people are best friends before the pull and wishing eachother death after 15minutes of playing a game loool

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha

[@valrath84]

I thought all the tanks pulled those two with the dragon trash huh interesting

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

They should!

[@Ramunas200]

Yeah, these chatters in the groups usually are the biggest drama queens and makes such a big deal of any mistake that happens during the key. Big NO NO to me when I see any of them in the group.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, its always a huge red flag for me.

[@JSIguess]

This was so frustrating to watch 😂

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya, rough one for sure.

[@Ougagagoubou]

There's not so much you want to combine there anyway, yeah the 3+3 before first boss is obvious, there's some other 1+2, 2+3 type of pulls later but I think this tank would've done those too. Crying about not doing one standard 3+3 pull early into key is just unnecessary. If I was bystander of that group, I'd def be the one blocking mage rather than anyone else in the group from future grouping. Tank having some inexperience like the enrage comment, he'll learn. People creating drama midrun, I don't know if they will.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya that mage was a clown. Talking about CDs then doing 600k on a boss with bloodlust is insanely embarrassing.

[@AzeroxDoomraider]

The only chat i wanna see is ggs at the end.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Exactly.

[@kopitarrules]

A poorly placed spirit link? Alright, who let Rusty run keys again. Lol

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

hahaha

[@Ragishush]

10:25 mage got 1hit by the shadowflame bolt..

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha

[@Ragishush]

@@heythereguysitsMetro At that point won't be surprised if he entered the key with yellow/red armor and all those wipes got him to 0 durability..

[@Impuracle]

10:32 does metro not understand stagger? the monk won't "die to lava fist". he's rotting-out from the lava fist's stagger damage over time.

[@Slamdoxicalz]

there are nicer ways to say monks have stagger

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Did you just not watch the monk's HP or something? I'm not sure he has stagger talented.

[@kopitarrules]

@@heythereguysitsMetro quick someone get that monk moregrain's triple magenta stagger weak aura. Lol

[@ThomasBachler01]

He purifies twice there, what are you even on about? He didn't die there because of stagger (that jus a small piece of it). He died to 2 stacks of the DoT and a lot of casts and ends up dying to the shadowflame bolt.

[@Rattja]

You might want to take a closer look, as he did not die to stagger, it actually had nothing to do with it. He removes stagger with Touch of Death so hes at about 80% health with no stagger. Then he gets brought to about 60% while getting into yellow stagger. Then he purifies that as you can see it dip into green stagger a split second before he dies. Yellow stagger is anywhere between 3-6% of your health per second (less with bob'n weave), that is not going to kill you like that. The shadowflame slash with the 2nd DoT application however, will. That is a lot of magic damage which stagger is not that strong against, and does nothing vs DoTs.

[@arozade9192]

healer was cheeks lmao

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@arozade9192 bad all around honestly.

[@Svarog-y2h]

At some point you have to look at "survival bias" so to speak. You don't show how many successful low key pug runs use same level of "chatter". The enrage dispell comment was in error as the group lacked the capacity to take care of that. But the lust on 1st boss and 3rd boss probably is perfectly fine.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Its not about observing any trends. Its just about the reality of talking. No group is informed by any of this chatter, so its at best neutral and at worst causes a disband like this.

[@sharkstaint1373]

grim has always been a pug disaster , everyone ovecomplicating with talking too much , its not always a redflag to be fair if people try to dictate what should be done before the key start but only if tis bloodlust positions , i had this experience always where people ask me as a tank what route im using , statting what others should do on some packs , to be fair the monk who was talking too much didn't realy mess up till the double pull , but to be honest i've this pull like 10 times and wiped once , but it was on the first entrance after the first boss but made sure we had cds for it with the omnicd addon, other than that , just keep quiet and just maybe call for lust spots and thats about it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya

[@Narwhaul]

These are the same kids that bitch about key difficulties on Reddit but they play like this

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yes 100 percent the case. Talking about how hard tanking is too, and he never uses fort brew once.

[@Narwhaul]

@ exactly 😂. Thanks for the videos

[@philippeaftereight]

u guys have communication?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I wish we didn't.

[@ducan3218]

I believe the exploding keg gives the tank a huge damage reduction for 3 seconds. Really good for all those initial auto attacks on huge pulls

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right, and it takes longer than 3 seconds for those mobs to reach the monk haha

[@hugofreitas6799]

Those arw the ppl that say that m+ is hard ...

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

100 percent

[@Snowflake-Arugal]

arcane mage is so squishy

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I think he just must be low ilvl.

[@VDHmain]

This player, yeah, but as a spec, absolutely not. It's probably the tankiest specs in the game and it's not even close. An arcane mage who dies to anything other than ripping aggro is usually just bad or inexperienced. They have: Ice Block (immunity or 70% DR, + big heal with a talent) Alter Time (basically a full heal + teleport if used well) Mirror Image (20% DR, can cheese some charge mechanics) Invisibility (60% DR AND can completely avoid half the targetted mechanics in the game) Prismatic Barrier(25% DR + 20% max health absorb, duration of magic debuffs reduced by 40%, immunes some debuffs, maybe due to bugs) Mass Barrier(same as Prismatic Barrier but on the whole group)

[@GrandMaster-Broda]

A perfect example of why the game should be designed around pugs and not organized play. EITHER make it like a propper lobby and add voice chat or make the game EASILY READABLE without tracking CDs from everyone to make important spells pop out without the use of custom UIs. The direction of M+ has taken where its a bunch of horns going out all the time with a cluttered screen which is needed for high keys is just toxic and leads to pugs being ALOT harder. Toxicity is being bred by game design not the other way around

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Disagree with that for sure. Toxicity is a player problem 100 percent. The players are simply doing content they aren't ready for. Its not Blizzard's job to make the game easier for players who don't want to put in the right effort, or come with the appropriate attitude.

[@Christophersaurus]

Jesus everyone is messing up here

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya this was a bad one all around.

[@Vis_Electra]

For most keys: The more pre key chatter, the more likely it's a deplete. Often at first pull. Even at 12+. If I need a range kick to set up a massive pull, like in Necro, I will let the group know, but there is never any issues. Also spontanous video idea for you Metro: Stuff that people write in their note when applying to keys. I have never seen any note that changed my mind on inviting someone I wasn't already considering. It's mostly dissuading me from inviting. Unless the note is really really funny and makes me laugh. For reference: First week of M+ looking for a healer, I had a disc priest with the note "bring PI, f*ck shammys". (I didn't take him because bloodlust is awesome, but I would have if someone else brought the lust.)

[@peterpain6625]

exactly.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha I'll keep an eye out for that sort of thing, but usually people only submit runs in progress. We had a few videos in the past on runs that never actually start though. There was an amazing one in season 2 of Dragonflight where the group disbands before forming in Brackenhide.

[@VDHmain]

I'll usually just do a quick lust strat before the key if it's needed, usually about lust. In a 12 I may share my route with mdt so dps know when to use CDs. Usually stuff like: CoT "using 2 proff buffs, don't facepull by the third, we mind soothe skip triple caster pack. Killing the beetle general during RP." GB "lust first pack then send it when ready." DB "lust boat, second lust for big pull in front of church." NW "skip first necro pack by hugging left, lust 1st pull, mini-boss before 2nd boss, then Stitch or last idc. I sac immune every other burp on first boss." Don't really need more than this. Lust DPS should have an idea of when to lust when you do a 12 anyway except maybe in DB cause my route is not conventional.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya for me, zero chatter is the only way I'm happy.

[@AngryPomeranian]

Dunno, sometimes tanks just pulls 2 packs of mobs that shouldn’t be pulled together. It feels like Steven’s King or Lovecraftian insanity when the main character gets possessed by demons or became insane from cosmic horror. 10000 casts go out and it’s a wipe. And then they do it again.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, particularly confusing in here.

[@trancer03]

There are still a ton of people doing 8's and 9's with 605 gear etc. It's insane at this point. I got 3 characters that are like maxed needing gilded crests gear. So yes a mage like that is going to take like 90% of his health on it if he does not keep his absorb up. Well i tried getting into 8's myself but the pugs are just terrrribleee. I will likely just be happy with my 2k score mount and call it because it seems that even this long into the expansion people are still got max gear.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya for sure.

[@flashyhooves1710]

The enforcerers get 'soothed' by stunning them. I suppose that's what he was talking about.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

They lose their stacks if they don't auto attack for a while. He was talking about actually soothing them.

[@deenman23]

i think i need to try experimenting in pugs on an alt,because in the few pugs i do to complete vault i just dont run in to these issues,granted im 635 and a ret,a few lay on hands on tank,a buble here,an aoe stop there proly prevents some wipes...but idk im just not runing in to these issues,and in the few times a key is bricked i have never seen a group just IMPLODE like this,people keep going,they are there for vault to i asume,why else would you do a 10,if you want gilded u do 8 if you push you will proly do 12+ in that ilvl range,so my guess is thats why 10's are more chill

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya, if you want funny moments go do some lower keys!

[@davidpeat184]

It's just a combination of players being woefully unprepared imo. Like the Brewmaster didn't press a single defensive until the double pack AFTER throngus, and even then only used dampen harm. It's just a combination of not knowing your class, and getting carried through the ultra low keys. Then you end up with people in a 9/10 that have no clue what's going on.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, honestly it really is.

[@Ougagagoubou]

I'm pretty sure spirit link was a misclick. My guess is he wanted to pull with the acid rain and then move healing rain with the totem to tank, and clicked on link instead. Idk, it's a mistake def to use healing rain to pull something, even if tank requested it. Which they didn't. But flame shock is da way if it was your job.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya who knows

[@pdtRamon]

Loved the name of the Shaman, any inspirations metro? :)😊

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

huh?

[@DaikoLP]

to much chatting and i am locked out. to be honest i dont read the chat 😅. as a tank i do my thing

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I wish I was able to some times!

[@DaikoLP]

@ for me it’s working perfectly and at key lvl above 12 everyone should know their stuff. even with lust etc. otherwise the dungeon will be a mess anyway. you can’t tipe and play

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@DaikoLP yup my thoughts exactly.

[@kickthunt4239]

The biggest issue is not the talking, you have a penchant for blaming talking in lower keys as the reason why things go tits up. You are playing an MMO and doing content with 4 other people and then constantly blaming talking as to the reason why these keys go wrong? The main reason keys between 6 and 10 are bricked is because the people in them do not know their classes properly or the skills/spells they have, they do not know mechanics especially trash. Players brute force their way through leveling without ever having to use a defensive. They get carried through low level dungeons by tanks or healers healing their mistakes. They get loot thrown at them and their ilevel is hugely inflated, giving a false indication as to where they should be, gear wise or content wise. Now we come to the biggest reason, EGO is by far the worst factor as to why keys go wrong. Someone makes a mistake and people jump all over that person with insults and passive/aggressive sarcasm which in turn creates anxiety and then the ego cuts in = disband. You have shown us many keys(streaming) where no one says anything at all and one mistake happens and someone instantly leaves, it is exactly the same outcome without the flaming and name calling lol. A couple of years ago albeit in a raid, I once asked a warrior if he could use rallying cry to help the group on a certain mechanic, he asked me what that was and that's the point I'm making, a huge amount of players do not know their classes.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@kickthunt4239 did you not watch the video maybe? The "biggest issue" is the miscommunication and pressuring of the tank causing him to make a bad decision. That's the long and short of it.

[@kickthunt4239]

@@heythereguysitsMetro The "biggest issue" is still not the talking, you have many times mentioned your red flag of talking too much, before a key starts and I'm just pointing out that it's not indicative of success or failure. The players not using their skill set, or knowing what mobs' abilities do is a far larger issue. There was no "talking" when the sham used spirit link, there was no "talking" when the BM pulled 2 packs with no mitigation etc etc someone pinged a spot and you were probably right about it being the mage but it could also have been the BRM. I already acknowledged the passive/aggressiveness of people's egos during the blame game. As I said, people do not know their classes, let alone another role, kind of arguing semantics here. I was however, making a broader statement, not necessarily about this particular video. Probably an NA/Europe differing opinion :)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@kickthunt4239 no you are just being obtuse. Players upgrade 9s all the time without "knowing their class." How do you think these people got here?

[@kickthunt4239]

@@heythereguysitsMetro So a differing opinion is a reason to call someone obtuse? Hmmm irony abounds. I won't insult you back as you probably wouldn't know what I meant..........see what I did there?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

​@@kickthunt4239 That wasn't an insult. I'm just describing what you are doing, not saying anything about you specifically. These guys obviously have done keys at this level before, and its not abnormal that they play this poorly. The actual issue here is what we are describing, not whether they fit your expectation of what skill level they should have. Maybe its simply because I see a LOT of content like this, but outside of the tank, they are playing pretty much as expected on my ends for a 9 this late in the season.

[@aleksaas]

You are average tank, and you are better than most of the tanks, but dont be delusional. Tanks are the main reason keys fail. Fact. Sooo many bad tanks in pugs.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Delusional about what? I think we were pretty fairly showing all 5 players making a lot of mistakes here. If these guys don't backseat this guy, they upgrade this easily though. So no, not in this case, the tank is not the "main reason" the key failed.

[@VDHmain]

Calling a top 0.5% tank average, mega eye roll. Timing a key is a group effort; sometimes the tank dies because the healer dispelled too early (SV 1st boss XD), sometimes because the group doesn't use cc or kicks, sometimes because they mess up CD usage (SV Despoilers, GB Flamerenders, GB Giants, Mist Guardians), sometimes because DPS didn't focus the right mob, sometimes cause they messed up and showed their back.