when saviours go bad | drama disguised as help [cc]

[@TheraminTrees]

To the individuals commenting 'knights don't move like that', some information: I know they don't move like that. I deliberately depicted an illegal move. I'll leave you to join the dots.

[@k2_x376]

But... Knights in chess are called horses, aren't they?

[@anime.soundtracks]

what knights? i just watched this video but don't remember any depicted knights nor its move..?

[@Takkiebos]

@@anime.soundtracks first thing that happens in the video.

[@Pit31415]

I'm gonna be honest... It's not very clear what you were going for. Maybe there's some deep philosophical symbolism going on, but I don't see it Edit: now that someone explained it, I see the connection. However, I still stand by my statement. It was placed at the beginning, when I had no idea what the video was about. Therefore, the title sequence didn't leave any impact. I thought "that's a funny knight" and moved on The video may have contained the answer, but I quickly forgot about the beginning move. The main content is what I'm here for, after all. The little knight maneuver was probably added near the end of the video production process. However, I feel most new viewers would likely misinterpret as they have no prior knowledge of the subject If what the commenter below me said is the intended explanation, then it's expecting me to jump through too many hoops. The switch from chess to abstract thinking *back* to chess is too much (A fake knight who is actually a pawn). Lastly, the symbolism doesn't connect with the video. The objective in chess is to checkmate/capture the king, which the knight did. The knight actually helped while the video is explaining how some people who think they are helping are, in fact, doing harm. No hate, @TheraminTrees I love your videos. I just feel like you could've chose a more fitting beginning. TL;DR Beginning sequence is too confusing and doesn't connect with the video

[@txorimorea3869]

@@Pit31415 A pawn cosplaying as a knight, is simple as that.

[@nikopope1831]

“The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.”

[@tuekham9312]

More like "The road to Hell is masked as good intentions." A lot of people knowingly drag other down and excuse it's helping.

[@Dinoslay]

@@tuekham9312 A good intention can start as legit but once it spirals out of control without necessarily reality checks the pavement turns to a mask. In either case, it’s the same destination.

[@neonshadow5005]

I love this quote.

[@macmac1022]

I have always liked the 3 words from a tool song, pure intentions juxtaposed.

[@-Matango-]

My favourite quote

[@hassanedvvn]

This video has just woke me up to the fact I have been indulged in my own saviour complex for so long… thinking back I must have caused so many people harm… and just like you said, it was validation that i was digging for. What’s crazy is that I’d secretly root against people I knew, so that I could sweep in and “save the day”. TheraminTrees, thank you so much.

[@macmac1022]

I see it a bit in myself as well, but not to the extreme of thinking I can read minds, but just the little bits of advise. For the most part though I joke around making fun with words like george carlin, or sharing knowledge of things like nitinol or the double slit experiment or talking about space. But if someone is looking for small object or something, I will start to help look and make suggestions like have you looked in the tread of your boot. Lost a screwdriver bit for 20 minutes one time cuz of that LOL. Finally thought to check our boots and there it was.

[@michaelnoracion]

Same

[@NickisSick2]

What the hell is wrong with you? Jk I honestly think it’s just a high intelligence thing.

[@Cellidor]

at 15:00, what you said about someone grumbling about a job and another coming forth with career ideas, took me back to when I interviewed as a Resident advisor back in college. They had asked me a question along the lines of: "Say a student comes up to you with a problem regarding their classes or similar, what would you do in that situation?" I'd basically said that it depends on what they're looking for. If they're looking for a solution, I can work with them to try and find it, but if not, I'll just hear them out. I told them that sometimes people aren't looking for a solution, they just, want someone to talk to. They'd thanked me and told me they wished more people understood that idea. I've never really stopped thinking about that moment over the years. That idea of being empathetic but not overbearing. I like to hope that I'm still following those principles well today. This video really hit home for me.

[@TheraminTrees]

What a great answer. That's real listening. Cheers for sharing!

[@aronhighgrove4100]

Thanks for being this type of person. I remember a strong conflict with someone who wanted to lecture me on what to do, while I repeatedly said I didn't want that (especially since it was advice coming from little knowledge and jumping to conclusions). Ironically I was not allowed to explain why this is not helpful.

[@yosh3058]

Tyrone's story is so heartwarming. I've been around too many people that act superior to anyone and everyone. Hell I'd be lying if I said I never got in that head space myself. Hearing about his transformation and self reflection is inspiring.

[@itsabug4274]

Not really, I noticed at no point did someone actually sit down and talk to Tyrone until his issues were very far along, just either ignored him, or began to openly mock him. He had problems and no one really wanted to help him. Sure, some people need to sort their own problems out, but just as there are people who go through this and have eye openers, there's many more who end up on self destructive paths because no one tells them what they need to hear before it's too late. I just can't help but feel a bit of smug "WeLl I cAn'T hElP yOu!" from the video.

[@yosh3058]

@@itsabug4274 You aren't wrong, although I do still find the outcome of Tyrone's story appealing. I don't think they had any obligation to try and 'fix' Tyrone given the environment, especially when he made clear his negative views of them. It's more of a widespread issue regarding men's mental health imo. It tends to get neglected or harmed in upbringing and forgotten about later in life. Mental health in general should be taken more seriously, but awareness of men's mental health especially needs aid.

[@freddy4603]

@@itsabug4274 "sitting down and talking to him", although not a bad idea, is a lot more easier said than successfully done. If it was that easy, therapists would only need one session to help their clients. Hell, if anybody could do it, there would no places to learn how to be a therapist.

[@itsabug4274]

@@yosh3058 @Yosh He didn't have negative views though, he had an apparent savior complex. I want to also note the EXTREME irony in mentioning men's mental health often being disregarded right after you said there was no obligation to help (not 'fix', please don't put words in my mouth...) Tyrone with his issues. Also, yes there is an obligation. The teacher of the class has an obligation to fix any issues with their students, at the very least, mocking him in such a manner did nothing more than worsen the problem. That's pretty unforgivable when you're supposed to be a PSYCHOLOGY professor...

[@charmycharmcharms698]

@@itsabug4274 I feel like perhaps they did try, Theramintrees just didnt think it important enough to include. Even if they did try and tell him how he was upsetting the group, hed be too stubborn in his preconceptions to listen. Ive been struggling with a savior complex myself, and I know how stubborn I can get when I get to that point. Like Theramintrees said, he was a draining presence and it would be even more draining to try and help him when he wouldnt listen.

[@TheDope2000s]

I just wanted to say, YOU are literally in my top 5 creators (all platforms) when it comes to the quality and RELEVANCE of your content. Thank you for continuing to educate me & many others over the years.

[@CMDRunematti]

it always feels like christmas when a new video appears, doesnt it?

[@TheDope2000s]

@@CMDRunematti ikr! And it's ALWAYS helpful and engaging!? Christmas day fr 🥺 edit: For those asking for the full list, here it is, in no particular order: @Theremin Trees (Human Psychology) @Design Theory (Creativity & Innovation) @Elizabeth Filips (Productivity) @Film Booth (Social Media Growth) @Nathan Zed (Pop Culture) These creators are of course different niches & styles. But in quality, I think you'll find they are in the same league if you give them a chance. 😖

[@Mariathinking]

What's the other 4?

[@macmac1022]

Seriously, its soo good. I dont get why jordan peterson is huge while trees is not. No video peterson has made that I have seen can explain deep things like this so simply and clearly. And his latest one of what makes the bible special just made me cringe so badly.

[@FactStorm]

I completely agree - Theramin is a very unique channel. His introspection, insight, research is unparalleled. It also helps he has a soothing voice & enunciates everything beautifully. We love you Thermin, my favourite video of yours is "Respecting Beliefs", which is incidentally your most viewed! Keep up the great work, I will forever remain a subscriber, and do not care how long it takes to release a video because we know it's quality!

[@orange_man_from]

On my first social platform, I was introduced to the worst kind of online drama -- interpersonal drama. Being a good-natured, but ignorant 19-year-old, I always played savior to my friends. I was careful never to be pursuer, and wasn't weak enough to be a victim (majority of the time), but I'd always play savior. Playing savior came to a head in two notable situations. The first time was a group v group situation, so everyone was at fault. And I shouldn't have fed so much into the drama. The second, became the most shameful moment of my life. I'd grown such blind allegiance to my friends that I couldn't see the obvious signs that something was deeply wrong with a situation I got myself involved in. I'm not proud to say I nearly flew into hysterics. I even cursed for the first time in my life. Then I took the very people I hurt and forced them to play a complicated scheme of my own design... It wasn't until one of them worked up the courage to speak their mind that I realized how deeply I hurt everyone. I was so angry that I barely had empathy once I pushed them to tears at my feet. Some savior. Their tears still haunt me.

[@NoNameNoWhere]

Only a lucky few have been good people their entire lives. For the rest of us who have done wrong, shame is the mold that makes us better.

[@superscatboy]

I had a massive mental breakdown ~15 years ago, because I felt like I had no control over my own life. It was really difficult getting friends and family to understand that there was nothing they could do that could help - that their help was actually having the opposite effect. The one thing I needed at that time was control over my own life, and having everyone in my life trying to take that from me was soul-destroying. I don't think anyone had a saviour complex or anything, but I just wanted to give an example of the fact that sometimes the best thing you can do to help someone is to leave them alone. By all means offer help, but if it's rejected just let it go.

[@Irondragon1945]

What an interesting memory, super scat boy 👀

[@superscatboy]

@@Irondragon1945 Thanks.

[@Irondragon1945]

@@superscatboy i was actually just pointing out your *interesting* username

[@superscatboy]

@@Irondragon1945 Yes, I was aware of that.

[@milesverde2439]

As an Ex-Jehovah’s Witness, I just wanted to say thank you for these videos. Deconstructing my faith was disorienting and terrifying and your videos helped me immensely. I’m glad you’re still making them after all these years!

[@TheraminTrees]

You're very welcome - I'm glad you made it out of that horrendous organisation.

[@danielali8372]

@@TheraminTrees why do you barely upload?

[@abas656thegodemperor9]

​@@danielali8372probably the animation,animation takes a lot of time.

[@calliemyersbuchanan6458]

I have never wanted to physically touch animated objects more in my life!!! I adore your animation style and narrative style!! It's like a strange relative to asmr as well as being immensely educational! Amazing work!

[@IheartDogs55]

It's funny how I identified with the new call center volunteer. Touches from people I don't know, or I don't know well, bother me. I would have pushed her away, too.

[@eliyasne9695]

Perhaps TTs should open a merch store selling 3D printed models of his works.

[@ArtfullyMusingLaura]

I find his voice very soothing.

[@FactStorm]

His voice helps with the whole asmr feel :)

[@FPSAllTheWay18]

@@eliyasne9695 it'd sell too! Would get a sale from me. I often listen to TT or HealthyGamerGG in the morning, but some days I don't because of my executive dysfunction (and emotional regulation) and I'll get into habits of scrolling endlessly on tiktok (kinda like babies sucking on thumbs to self-soothe?); Having a material reminder to wake up to would be helpful 😅 Kinda like a Buddha statue as gratitude to his wonderful lessons; or a bookshelf full of our favourite authors.

[@jsnel9185]

As a former Christian (21 years, a true believer no matter how many folks want to "no true scottsman" me) I can tell you this video hit pretty close to home. Since I stopped trying to be a savior everything has improved. Most importantly, my relationships are more genuine. I dropped the drama.

[@dryfox11]

Just remember that no matter what, personal choices & beliefs should be your own decision, don’t let others influence you negatively (unless it’s ThereminTrees, he seems pretty smart ngl)

[@xXiLikePieOo]

​@@dryfox11 I pray theramintrees comes to Christ already so you guys can come to my pool party in heaven. Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

[@jjhh320]

Yep, I was at almost 2 decades of that for me. Ruined so many personal connections that could've been much more genuine, and the church, unknowingly or not, only enabled and worsened it. Things like activism and such were similarily dark paths too. Glad to be free, no matter how much people think I'm selfish for not being so generous a person now.

[@xXiLikePieOo]

@@jjhh320 People may have done that to you but Jesus never will. Jesus loves you bro.

[@kylek5225]

⁠@@xXiLikePieOoTheees a problem though. He wasn’t just talking about the people, he was agreeing with OP in talking about the behavior that Christianity as a religion promotes, along with the people in the church bolstering it. It wasn’t just about the followers, but the religion itself from what I understood from his comment.

[@agiar2000]

Fantastic, as always, but what's more, this one really hit close to home for me. Some time ago, I definitely suffered from the "rescuer" position, feeling as though it were my responsibility to use whatever means I possibly could to help others with their problems, leading me to give away a lot of my resources while feeling not self-satisfaction from doing good deeds, but frustration with the rest of the world for not making the same effort I was and despair and guilt because my efforts never seemed to be enough. Eventually, my personal and professional life became much worse, and I was unable to help others, putting me in the "victim" position, feeling as though I have no agency whatsoever, no ability to take any action to help resolve my own problems, most of the time. At times, I even find myself fantasizing about the "persecutor" position, having the incredible power to compel others to obey the moral precepts I hold highest through overwhelming force. I have a lot of work to do on myself to get out of this mess, and I think I need to find a therapist.

[@caralho5237]

what you need is paramilitary training. take over the world!

[@agiar2000]

@@caralho5237 Much appreciated. 😉

[@rhondahoward8025]

_"Tyrone privately apologized to each member of the group for his previous behavior. But one member, June, always kept her distance. Tyrone lamented that he really blew it with her. But he said that it was a useful reminder that in life you can't always mend what you break."_ This reminds me of Bojack's character so much, especially his whole ordeal with Herb. Bojack had to learn throughout the series that life didn't work like the sitcom he had been a part of, "Horsin' Around".

[@witchypoo7353]

Everyone is strong & capable in their own ways some just need more help than others. The only way to help others is to help them help themselves, otherwise we’re just hurting them. It’s part of why I cherish my dad so much. He’s never pitied me for being disabled. He’s helped me learn new skills to help me compensate for the things I struggle with. He actually is my hero because he never tried to be

[@Broeckchen]

Marian's story is interesting. I have a similar core tendency to make myself useful and helpful to establish myself in places. But I remember people telling me to maybe go into counselling or psychology because of my apparent talent in it and I always adamantly refused to do so. I recognized pretty quickly that I need to keep that energy focused on my "monkeysphere" if I don't want to overexert myself, and because I am mainly so seemingly talented at this because I know most people I apply it to for years. In their everyday life. Not just from weekly conversations. For a while I bought into the hype of "you're just so good at this" and that's when I became worse at it. It took me a bit to realise that all my social competence is not a talent or gift, but a skill I need to consistently hone, and an active effort I must consistently make.

[@ecohumanism]

The idea of helping others plays differently in different people. As long as I remember myself, it wasn't about controlling others, and I question my actions when others don't quite understand me. By helping others we want to help ourselves, to quench our own internal demands, and these demands are different, this is how I feel it. Some want to gain validation and fame and feel superior, some are not okay with the current state of affairs, some feel uncomfortable when they see people suffering. We should not forget to start from saving ourselves, and also put more effort into understanding others - without this you can't help. Narcissists, self-entitled people are real, mental disorders are real, if someone wants to control actions of others instead of being able to distance from them, reconsider and get help. "The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants" and I don't believe in clear conscience and honesty of failed tyrants, not anymore.

[@urphakeandgey6308]

I've always had a "teach a man to fish" mentality to helping and some people misinterpret it as me being cold. If you're capable of doing something yourself, I'd rather teach you to do it yourself than _"help"_ you. It also affects the way I treat children. Many adults think I'm cold, but I just want the kids to learn self-reliance. Too many kids expect help for EVERYTHING. To me, this is what "tough love" means. Doing something that appears to be cold, but in the long run, will be more beneficial to the person. Babying someone is not helping them.

[@tedjones1021]

Theramin, I hope you're doing well. Your videos are very insightful, well-articulated, easy to understand and extremely helpful in identifying and responding to manipulative, exploitative and abusive dynamics, on several different scales - and so are worth revisiting frequently for anyone who wishes to be more secure in themselves. Regardless of whether you're able to add to it, your work here will continue to be impactful and is greatly appreciated.

[@Aisatsana1971]

We miss you Theramin Trees

[@kiretnek6066]

It's absurdly perfect timing that this video came out when it did. I'm dealing with the situation right now and I need this.

[@nikoladoctorov553]

Sometimes villains are just broken heroes, indeed.

[@heilmadon]

I mean ultimately a villian and hero can have the same goal but their execution or plan is what gives the label

[@iantaakalla8180]

It also explains many stories where heroes and villains flip

[@captaindookey]

This sheds light on a lot of things wrong with the drama tube community.

[@namedescriptionproductions497]

Not exaggerating when I call this one of the most important channels on here. Genuinely really informing and helpful. Thank you

[@lukass7156]

I'm not quite sure why, but Tyrone's and Dimmy's story made me teary-eyed. I guess it's the feeling of how people can make so many mistakes, but notice the error of their ways, actually change themselves and apologize to the people they have hurt. I can't think of anything more humbling and humanizing.

[@cleitonoliveira932]

I'm very ashamed of myself right now. This video in some way validates my drama and thinking about it makes me uncomfortable. But thank you for the content, I hope I'll break this loop some day.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

When it's used in politics I always frame it as people who say "I'm going to help you no matter how hard you fight me on it". I don't think I've ever met someone who had a savior complex that didn't make every situation worse by their meddling. I think it takes real humility to stand back and accept you don't fully understand another person's circumstance and not try to inject yourself. I even have a woman friend who loves to choose the worst men and I just give my opinion, tell her what I think the consequences will be if she pursues this new terrible guy, and then just stand back and watch the inevitable car wreck.

[@acutechicken5798]

Sounds a lot like one type of rhetoric used to justify banning gender affirming care for transgender and nonbinary folk. "We're helping you, we swear, and there's nothing you can do to change our minds!" I can't tell if they genuinely believe they're helping others by banning necessary care or if it's just a way to save face, but it is interesting, and sickening.

[@OmzLaw]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, please don't stop making content! This one is so nicely polished and fine tuned (I've seen almost all your videos) and the quality just keeps getting better and better with each one. The way you pace the topic, connect the visuals together, narrarate with a slow and calm pace; it shows so much maturity and calmness and demonstrates your expertise on the subject matter. I change as a person for the better every time I'm here, so I'll say it again, don't stop making these.

[@jeanpierrepolnareff9919]

It's funny how much it reflects with my actual situation. At the moment I have a work and studying a career while my brother does none. My family has been trying to motivate him from very passive ways to basically dragging him to interviews. It seems to have the adverse effect. I think my brother needs to hit rock bottom to realize where he really is, but my mother keeps financially enabling him. I believe it's the fault of our family and the school he went to, we built to him this fantasy of "you're smart boy, you just don't get good grades because the subjects are too boring for you". The reality is his brain works like any humans and needs to study or practice to be successful at life, and I think telling him he was a genius hurt his future. I quite honestly don't know how to help him, but this video taught me that maybe it's s good idea to let him figure it out. Your videos always make such a dive into the human psyche that I wish I had studied psychology instead of art. We are such complex beings in so many good and bad ways, and all that there is in between. Cheers.

[@tae5184]

Thank you for another powerful and beautifully constructed video. There's is so much here, and like most of your videos its absolutely worth several watches. First, I'd like to point out that your discussion of the "victim" role-based identity is something that I may possibly be struggling with at the moment. It was well-explained and I intend to ask my therapist about it. Secondly, the entire video was shocking in how well it described and explained many of the bizarre, cruel, and irrational behaviors I've seen in online social/ political communities and spaces that I have been part of. Thank you so much!

[@Loafdd]

I think this is one of my favorite videos of yours, likely because it highlights this savior complex as far from unrecoverable. Other topics you discuss have the (rational) conclusion some relationships are often beyond repair and can need to be cut off. They often leave a somber and cautious tone. Here I see Tyrone, Marion, and Dimmy; their good intentions gone afoul, and their recovery from it. It gives me a better understanding of what they may be going through, and hope that they can recover from the drama cycle.

[@Cat_Woods]

So glad to see another video from you! The refusal to listen as conducive to "drama" is so important. I used to have a friend who simply never listened, no matter how clearly or calmly I said something. She even went off on me for "never taking her advice," by which she meant that if I told her about something that she thought needed correcting, and she then told me how to correct it, I was obliged to follow her advice or else "not be a good friend." I think now it was not possible to be what she wanted in a friend without being obedient to her.

[@Alsyoutubeaccount]

I ruined my life over this. I worked in an industry where people are taken advantage of, and I tried to help someone who didn’t want my imposing “help”. I know how I was wrong now, but I wish I would’ve understood before I created so much chaos and destruction for myself and for others. Now I’m restarting my life.

[@DrownedInExile]

This hit close to home. One of my oldest and closest friends was neglected and parentified as a child. She developed a Saviour complex, and did not react well to pushback. We got into a couple fights, the second of which almost ruined our friendship. As you put it, she went from saviour to persecutor. To this day it pisses me off that I didn't hang up on her stupid pointless rant. I underwent a serious re-evaluation of our friendship. I decided not to end things, but I would no longer discuss certain topics with her. She noticed and got a little peeved, but I didn't care. She made her choices. It's been years since this went down, but I'm worried she hasn't learned anything. Few months ago I was sharing a story about some stupidity at work. She instantly jumped into giving me unsolicited career advice. Without noticing how uncomfortable I got. I'm thinking of sharing her video with her. Maybe she'll learn something, maybe not. Time will tell if there's hope.

[@kikivoorburg]

Thank you for all the amazing content you have put over the years! I'm lucky to be a happy and stable person, but people close to me are not all in the same position. Your videos not only help me to better understand what they are going through, but also reflect on my own words and actions so as to avoid falling into traps myself.

[@ronwisegamgee]

This was a pretty poignant video for me. For me, I probably suffer from a variant of this called the "teacher/tutor gone bad," where the surface intention is to teach/tutor others in X and my rancor arises when I either don't get some sort of validation or sense of inclusion or when the person I'm trying to teach just doesn't absorb the material. One of the people I feel lots of rancor for in this regard is my mother, who I see as a technophobe. I get the impression that she is contemptuous of computer technology and thinks of herself above others who she sees as "computer addicts." Yet when it she needs something that requires computer tech use, she resorts to me doing the thing for her, whether that's paying a phone bill online, turning off the PS4 once she's done watching a show on Netflix, or setting an alarm on a smart phone. I've tried time and time again to teach her and guide her on how to do these things, but it may as well be hieroglyphics to her. The straw that breaks the camel's back is when she doesn't even try and just asks me to do the thing for her. When she thanks me, I want to tell her to fuck off for disregarding the time and energy I take to teach her how to do these seemingly simple tasks (but I don't), because getting into it in the past has done nothing but erect emotional barriers and turning arguments into how I'm being abusive. So nowadays, I simply resort to blowing up in my car by myself when I feel too indignant and just doing whatever computer-based tasks she needs of me ASAP. While I "feel" that I am justified in being indignant, I recognized and am ashamed to acknowledge that in those moments of dramatic indignation, I get emotionally hurtful and abusive. I don't want to be those things and I want to get passed feeling like a failure as a teacher or a tutor. It just sucks to feel ineffective and I'm probably taking on their lack of validation and/or learning as my responsibility, when it really isn't. Thank you for making and uploading this video, TheraminTrees. As I said in the beginning, though this was a poignant video for me, it was also necessary for me to watch.

[@HansLemurson]

I've had some troubles with this myself.

[@LarsPallesen]

You know, one prerequisite for being an actual teacher or tutor is that someone has ASKED you to teach or tutor them. If your mother has done neither of those things you only have yourself to blame for your "ungrateful student". She never asked you to be her teacher. No wonder she's not an attentive pupil when you try to teach her about computers.

[@ronwisegamgee]

@@LarsPallesen And yet we have these things called public schools where it's compulsory to send kids to classrooms with teachers to teach them about various subjects, none of it without their expressed consent. The next time you get the urge to metaphorically kick someone in the balls when their expressing some vulnerability, resist the urge, asshole.

[@attheranch873]

If I were in your situation, I would say “you can do it” and walk away. she can either learn to do it or not have access to what she needs. You’ve done more than enough.🌷

[@attheranch873]

@@LarsPallesen so, you’re a persecutor?

[@Chopsyochops]

I was one of these codependent hero caretakers. I had successfully managed to stop doing this with everyone except my adult son. Not because I consciously wanted to do it, but because it was a pattern we were both stuck in. I had been the saviour from his abusive father. Then as he matured I was the saviour from his abusive gfs. Then I was the saviour when he couldn’t handle life and stress. In the end I had to pull back and tell him no. That I couldn’t do that role anymore. He didn’t take it well and sulked and ignored me for days, He’s still adjusting to me having this boundary. I used to be the saviour for everyone and pushed myself to breaking point looking after others to feel like I had some value. In the end, the stress of looking after others and not myself caught up with me. I had a stroke 7 months ago aged 43. After my stroke some of the people I used to help still came to me to get help and I had to say no. They dropped me like a hot brick. Sometimes saviours try to save people. Sometimes we get hooked into it and play the role. Either way, my empty semi disabled lonely life tells me that it was the wrong way to live. It was my own fault too.

[@onii-san3851]

I'm not gonna lie I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about a lot of stuff, and this vid will give me a good insight on how I could see this debates with less of a bias. I hope I can learn to improve my way of understanding myself and others.

[@Sardonic_Sadist]

The stage and triangle of drama is a great way to think about this. I definitely hope I'll remember it next time I, or one of my friends, slip from supporter into savior. It took,,, a long, long time for me to learn that I needed to let people go in order to help them, that I needed to step back and take care of myself first, but it's one of the most invaluable lessons anyone can learn. It's made me a whole lot kinder, safer, and happier.

[@Calcanthite]

I don't know if this will come off dramatically, and I'm well aware that I'm talking into a sea of comments that will likely never be read by someone else, but I watched this video in the hopes of trying to identify times in my life where I've found myself in one of these roles. It took (what I consider it to be) an embarrassingly long time while listening to this video that I am currently in drama that I created. All I had to do was think of the last time that I was involved in drama. For me, the stage is my workplace. It's not a gradual role shift for me, but a rapid loop playing over and over again whenever conflict at my workplace arises. You're right, my behavior isn't innocent, and it's embarrassing. I won't pretend to have had an epiphany or a personality altering experience while watching this video, but it's resonating with me.

[@Loafdd]

I think learning and identifying the issue, and trying to remain conscious of it when taking anything upon yourself, is a good place to start.

[@Jenny-vm3yu]

Having a saviour complex almost ruined my life a few times. I’ve had therapy to deal with it and I’m now in a supporter role with everyone in my life. I developed my saviour complex for a couple of reasons, both linked to an abusive stepfather. I could never “save” my mother from the marriage, no matter what I tried they are still married even now. Also, nobody ever came to save me. So I took all that hurt and pain and channelled it into saving others. Not realising it was about validation and control. It took several years to overcome. I still have those tendencies in me but I Chanel them into a supporting role and let people make their own mistakes, and stand on their own two feet.

[@revivlerech9020]

WOW I'm blown away. This puts so many things in their place for me. And besides, i find your presentation extremely well done, clear and engaging. Thanks.

[@beermaven2197]

I have always felt that while the details may be complicated, the overarching principals should not. The "Drama Triangle" explains a whole host of groups and their behaviors. Thank you for the content and please do not stop.

[@frenchyproductions9692]

Amazing video! As someone who works in the industry, great job with the visuals! One minor nitpick: at 6:18 your chessboard on the right alternates it's pattern vertically, however the one on the left follows it's pattern vertically. This is such a minute detail that it has no impact on the video, but I noticed and thought I'd mention it

[@KopitioBozynski]

I can't describe how glad I am you made this video as someone who has a parent that has a massive savior complex who used that form of abuse to mask their other abuses. I'm also doubly glad you made it because the world is not just infested but largely ran by hypocrites with savior complexes.

[@BorderOllie]

Ugh I found my new favorite KZbin channel. I don't even know where to start because I want to just absorb all of this important information. I've been through the ringer on emotional abuse, especially through my family, and these are currently my life savor.. thank you for helping people with your content. I hope there's more videos to come soon ❤️🙏

[@antonzhernosek5552]

Always happy to see you upload. The perspectives and stories you offer are absolutely outstanding and tremendously help shape and adjust our world views

[@courtjester8055]

Yes! Another new, fascinating video to let my brain chew on! Keep up the great work! The story about Tyrone really got to me. I think we've all known people like that, and I think we've all either known someone who saw that they had to turn around like that, or been that person ourselves. What was super interesting to me too was just that little bit that he had to be fake, or that his antics appeared as if they must be ungenuine. I think a big step in learning about people and psychology is that there just are outlandishly strange cases out there, and that it often is entirely genuine, or made so through simple repetition. When I realized that in my own life, I began to not only have a lot more sympathy for people, but also learn when I can't help someone, and when relationships went beyond being saveable. I've also been told that I must be faking my anxiety disorder, because I suppose if you don't live with things like that, you can't understand how another person can. It must be some sort of mental self defense mechanism that prevents a person from realizing that they could have been the exact same way if they had been put through different situations, or the fear that if they experience the same feelings, there might be something "wrong," with them too. It's very scary for the ego to realize those things, and it's a threat to it to realize that they may have to change themselves entirely.

[@josephmarsh5031]

"Kindly let me help you, or you'll drown, said the monkey to the fish helping him safely up a tree." Alan Watts

[@cmf1402]

Your production quality has increased a lot, well done!

[@cheapentertainment8298]

This video was hard to listen to in all the right ways. A few years ago, I fell into a turbulent relationship with a few roommates and we fell constantly into and switched between all three rolls. Hot shame and righteous indignation always follows after I recall what I did and what was done to me. We where all emotionally immature and scarred, so watching media like yours feels like bitter cough syrup. Bitter...but healing haha

[@Grabatea]

You and your content has helped me get out of a toxic friendship that I was in with a narcissist, and my god I cannot thank you enough about that.

[@TheraminTrees]

That's fantastic to hear. Peace.

[@dibkle]

I'm not above admitting I have fallen victim to this mindset as well, happening around the same time I was brainwashed into pseudo-spiritual ideologies, thankfully I was never able to subject anyone to my "false help" and I look back on that phase of my mind as being cringeworthy tbh

[@maxfieldstanton5411]

It’s important to remember: 1. There are many instances wherein an individual is in a unique position to help another, possibly at their own great expense, that does not constitute some type of complex or disorder. 2. You can avoid complexes by pursuing the net benefit within your interactions. Discounting your own wellness in the moral equation is no different than discounting someone else’s needs. 3. There is no shortage of legitimate social causes that should stir outrage and resentment in regards to the complacency of the general population. If you were an abolitionist in the 1850s, your disgust and rejection of those who support the inhumanity of slavery, whether passively or actively, would not constitute some sort of disorder or complex. Being compelled to address an extreme injustice is no character flaw. It is however possible, for said cause to be misguided. 4. Making a habit of putting one’s own selfish desires above others in dismissive self-victimization, wherein requests for help are seen as attacks, and others’ needs are continually rejected in favor of your own, is equally as disordered and likely far more destructive than the tendencies of those with low self-esteem.

[@IheartDogs55]

Did Theramin Trees advocate for any of your criticisms? Did we watch the same video?

[@maxfieldstanton5411]

@@IheartDogs55 Not every comment is a debate, nor should you feel so compelled to defend someone you idolize.

[@WalengaLeo]

You're one of the few if not the only one asking and answering questions about religion noone has questioned on the platform, and on my top3 favorite creators

[@fingerboxes]

I had a friend who had a persecution complex. She believed that everyone hated her and if you didn't act accordingly, she'd assume you were lying and try to goad you into proving it. She'd accuse you of being racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic until you stopped arguing and walked away from the conversation frustrated then she'd declare victory. She had a crush on me so I got to watch her do this to people of vastly different groups. She accused an anti-racism campaigner who I met at a pride parade of being racist and homophobic. She accused a trans-woman who she didn't know was trans of transphobia. Eventually she realized I wasn't going to sleep with her. She interpreted this as transphobia when really it's because I'm asexual and have literally never consented to any kind of sex act with anyone in my entire life. I don't know if she'll ever get over her complex but I hope she does.

[@kendlemintjed7571]

This channel makes me want to train to be a therapist. Don't stop!

[@dusksentry5836]

you're always a refreshing beacon of quality food-for-thought on the internet, which is so often much more surface level

[@yohanna3600]

I'm so glad your back with new content. I too suffer from savior or hero complex to the detriment to my own needs. It's until quite recently, around 2021, where I began my journey of recovering from this complex. Years of putting my family needs before my own is painful to unlearn. Especially from the eldest sister to which I am in my family. The burden of being the perfect child is huge.

[@Dark_Detective]

Nothing is worse than when these 'saviours' have any authority whatsoever.

[@1v966]

0:01 That's not how chess pieces move

[@antonio_carvalho]

Ok Kasparov

[@KingThrillgore]

This reminds me of the old adage of "I am the only person that can fix it." The reality is, they can't, they only want to make appearance of being the hero when in fact, they sow chaos to create a favorable scenario they can resolve. And then, they leave it broken.

[@abbieananas]

yeaaa theramin trees!!!! your videos are always a treat :)

[@TentacularScientist2348]

This video reminds me a lot of some parent groups which I can only describe as autism martyr parents. They're non-autistic parents with autistic children who act as if autism is a tragedy worse than death. They talk about how hard it is raising an autistic child and about how their child will never do x y and z, and about this potentially dangerous snake oil of the week that will cure their child of the evil autism. They are often labeled as heroes by other parents in their group and by wider society, and if they're criticized by an actual autistic person, they'll say that 'well you're able to talk/type on a keyboard, my child will never be able to do that. You're not nearly as disabled as my child is, so you can't speak for my child'. This creates a no win scenario where if an autistic person is unable to be articulate either verbally or through a keyboard, they're considered too disabled to understand themselves and what's going on around them. If they are able to communicate verbally or through a keyboard then they're not autistic "enough" to have a say on the matter. Either way, the autism martyr parent labels themselves as the ultimate authority. When someone with a savoir complex decides to ally themselves with a minority group, the results can end up leading to more discrimination.

[@oliverruane]

This is honestly my favorite KZbin channel. It is unique in a meaningful way and explores countless vital topics, that are so difficult to truly comprehend and are not talked about enough. The pacing and art style supplement the content beautifully and I have rewatched many videos to brush up on some of the topics.

[@hyperturttle7574]

The Tyrone part reminds me of something my mom and I like to say. "If you go looking for something to be offended by, you'll find it."

[@_just_an_garlic_bread_]

It hit me like a rock in the face, when i realised how similar my attitude to life was to Marion's one.. Changing homes, trying to quickly get new friends, and ending up with a useless desire to help people at unconvenient times...

[@Saibellus]

ive gone through many years of old videos relatively recently, using your perspectives and experiences to help make sense of my own relationship with my parents, and with myself. im very happy to see you are still making content. its helpful to me, who is profoundly gifted at rationalizing and excusing the behaviors of others, to see these situations from the sidelines and draw conclusions about my own relationships from the outside in.

[@CooperativeCowboy25]

The Beginner's Guide tackles this in a really interesting way and it's even a major twist at the end of the game.

[@earlgrey2130]

Your videos have become an invaluable ressource since i started working in a stationary psych ward. Not only for my patients, but also for myself.

[@ravenvalentine4919]

it is Good to hear from you again ♥

[@suyumivie]

This is making me realize that I might have a savior complex of some sort. Because recently, I started talking to this person right, nd whenever she would complain or express frustration abt certain things, I’d immediately jump up nd yap to her, thinking I’m gving her good advice that will get her out of her situation. But usually, she’d react nonchalantly or “Ya, ik that” 😭😭😭 bc for some reason, i subconsciously expect her to hv a big reaction. it ws like i ws infantilizing her or sumn. Like this is exactly what i fear. I would do sumn that go against my morals nd i don’t even realize it. Helpp

[@pineapplepotato6985]

It’s always so exciting to see you post a video. Literally no channel has ever been so influential in my healing journey. Thank you so much for your work!

[@franciscolanciotti5258]

Thank you so much for this. For me, understanding this lesson is not sending this video the people I think might need it. Maybe one day, if someone ask me for help about this same problem, I can share it.

[@dodgyhodgyo4]

I would like to thank you for your amazing work and the incredibly thoughtful presentation.

[@ianandrewwalker763]

Incredible, reflected on not only other's behavior but my own. Unbreably valuable channel.

[@etherraichu]

" We spring forth to protect humanity-- Even if they didn't ask us to!" -Prism Ranger Blue

[@Goldur-zp9nn]

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. I had a very troublesome relationship with a victim who pushed away all my real and supportive aid that would have helped her, to the point where i eventually became a savior as i really cared for her and it lead to a miserablle outcome where none of my efforts saw any merit and she even said that i made things harder (by probably infantalising her). It is still hard to understand because she had lived her whole life in her infantilised comfort zone where i tried to brake her out of and she had never dealt with her problems so it was too stressful when i tried to make her work on them and it made her push me away. Anyway sorry for the rant it got out of hand. Ty for the video it has been very eye opening and helpful.

[@CHOCOLATIONZ]

You are one of the few channels that I want to invest my time watching long videos. Thank you TheraminTrees!

[@Nu_Wen]

this is why I'm healing myself, before i become a healer for others. i want to help people, but i don't want it to become a problem that makes more problems. i want to be a force of healing, a friend people can count on and I can't be those things when I'm "helping" out of a NEED to "save" people, rather than just simply enjoying the process. i want to return to the latter of the two, i genuinely enjoy helping people, but while i am in need of healing, it is me i need to focus my attention on, not them.

[@coldboltlighting1237]

Hey you alive that’s awesome, thank you so much for making something on Jehovah witnesses. It hade helped me to wake up from this cult…

[@SecularMentat]

I bet you could break these into series almost 'season' like and the youtube algorithm would start to favor you more. You're definitely some of the best quality on this site and should be recognized as such.

[@lohh659]

Fantastically in depth as always

[@qwerasdliop2810]

i'm tearing up. thank you for this. If I didn't randomly decide to check out your channel off a recommendation from Solar Sands, in a few years I could have very well been in the shoes of one of the characters. This is an incredible work. So many people I know including myself are caught in a pseudo drama. I won't be a savior, I'll be a supporter, and hopefully help them somehow. Thank you so much

[@relaxandfocus5563]

Welcome back, though I bet you never left. it's been a long time since you posted, I'm relieved that you still want to make videos :)

[@aerialjordan2683]

I'm feeling a sense of... I guess, "mirror matching" by watching this new video of yours. I watched your videos when I first began leaving my Christian faith. I took comfort and teaching from the content of your videos. However, I began to worry that your material would fall antagonistic of religion and bitter in general. So I left your channel for a time, to see what you would do. Coming back, I've become happy to see that youve broadened your content to include themes that expand on harmful Christian teachings. However, the more I reflect on what you've posted here, I've noticed how my bitterness has lowered and horizons expanded. Perhaps I'm only projecting, or my reflection has shown me our shared path. In any case: it's good to hear from you again, old friend.

[@NoNameNoWhere]

I love these broader videos. The backdrop may be Christianity, but they highlight behaviors that persist inside and outside of religion.

[@merbst]

Back, once again; here he is! The Incredible! Theramin Trees!

[@yehudagreenfield]

Hi, thank you for your incredible work. It's been so helpful to me. Where did your "coming out" video go? I had watched that so many times and recommended it to so many people. Sad to see that it's unavailable now

[@ramblingthoughtsandideas]

Your videos has impacted me a great deal. I'm always excited to see your new uploads.

[@somuchtocook9159]

The best way I found to help some people who don’t ask for it is to just be honest with yourself and admit it would not help if you got involved forcibly, that action does not help everyone for every situation, it’s like bringing a rpg to kill a spider

[@sophiacozzo8964]

For a long time I had a maladaptive savior complex. Since I was little I was expected to be the mediator betwen the adults (expecialy teacher) and my peers, too be the sholder for my parents to cry on or to guess what my parents wanted from me. That made me look for validation in seen myself as usefull to other and to smother my feelings so I could mimic the feelings of other in a missguided show of "empathy". I just realized I needed therapy when in the pandemic, the fact that I, by myself, couldn't "fix the problem", was having so much of a toll on me I literally could feel any feeling but numbness (since, you know, I thought suppressing my feelings was the right thing to do). And, althought I sometimes fall for old traps, I am proud to say getting better at spoting and avoiding them. Thank you for the video, it is nice to know I am not alone on this. (Sorry for any bad spelling, english is not my first language)

[@OfTheGaps]

Everytime I watch your videos, I feel like I have a better understanding of some of thie otherwise inexplicable behavior going on around me. What's always surprising is how much of myself I see in your "broken" characters. I feel better equiped to handle difficult people in my life, and better acquainted with my own shortcomings. This, along with your soothing narration, leaves me feeling unusually tranquil. Thank you!

[@jaromchristensen5598]

As a former Mormon missionary, this is exactly how it was. I was so pushy and overbearing in a cause I thought was so important.

[@2DI0pictures]

"Hero Complex" is a perfect way to describe this current generation of people

[@Dgn404]

I love your unique style of exploring such complicated subjects in a way that always comes across clearly without imprinting the message onto the viewer. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. =]

[@Saffron777]

I just discovered your videos yesterday and I'm in awe! I need to take notes on how you worded everything because I live in the south and everyone is religious it's so rare to find agnostic/atheist people. What I noticed is that religious people are incredibly self absorbed and can't see past their version of God, you have gave me the language to describe my experiences and how I can respond to some of these people.

[@LL-kv1jk]

I noticed something with these videos, and forgive me if it's a question you commonly get, but I'm curious. There appears to be an intentional lack of capitalization in your video titles. I'm curious if there's any considerations motivating that choice, of if it's simply a stylistic decision?

[@TheraminTrees]

Just an aesthetic choice.

[@p4t091]

I love your videos, they never oversimplify things and also show how the concepts apply IRL with examples. I'm sure this knowledge will be extremely useful in my life, thank you.

[@PlanesKiwi]

Yes! A TheraminTrees upload! I didn't know there was a name for this behaviour. I was on the receiving end of it not long ago, a bossy person bowling on in to my house like a tornado and telling me what they are going to do to my space. And setting about doing their thing with gusto and no consultation. These saviours seem to be imposing themselves on people who they want to help. But do these saviours take the time to listen? To ask " _How may I help_ ?" My experience is they treat you like you are an idiot, and that they are superior. And they don't respect your space. There was No collaboration or co-operation, or patience. They used guilt tripping on me.

[@KerryNeeds]

So good! I love your videos. I can certainly see where I and other individuals in my life have moved around this triangle. One of the main things I’m going to stop doing is giving unsolicited advice. I’ve realised it’s often not what that person needs, and it comes from a belief that I know what they need, when I don’t. Asking what they need might be a better way.

[@kcearthkid2700]

These videos are exactly what i needed to hear. Ty

[@TheraminTrees]

Thank you kcearthkid!

[@themopshark6667]

I'm so glad for every upload you make, every video makes me think and improve my thought processes. You're probably my favorite KZbinr, keep up the insane amount of quality. :]