When should you run in super shoes?

[@BruceGuitar]

Really useful thanks! Just did my 4th marathon at London with a 22 min PB (4hrs 11 which I’m happy with). Have bought some endorphin pro 4’s, speed 3’s and ASICS Kayano 30’s to mix up training). Had previously done all training AND races with brooks ghost 14’s!

[@run4it]

Thanks for the comment, we're glad the episode was helpful. Congrats on your PB run at London, that's a solid time. That's a great shoe rotation there. You should really feel the benefits of using them for different types of runs. Good luck with your training.

[@BruceGuitar]

@@run4it Awesome thanks, fingers crossed!

[@jasonh6910]

As a new runner I only have a endorphin pro 4 and invisible run 3. And omg the pro4 feels so much better, I been doing 80% of my training in it. I been told it’s terrible for my legs and will cause injury so I am forcing myself back to the IR 3 … I dunno maybe I need another pair of daily trainer, I just hate that nike shoe

[@run4it]

The Endorphin Pro 4 certainly feel pretty amazing to run in. It's not right to say they 'will' cause you an injury if you run in them too much. We're all different. However, it is fair to say that there's a higher likelihood that specific areas may get overloaded if someone runs in super shoes too much. This is mainly because the superfoam and plated structure can significantly reduce ground contact time and roll feet forward very aggressively. This leads to more load being transferred higher up the kinetic chain. Which may cause problems around the hip, glute, and hamstring area over time. Running in shoes which are softer and less aggressive, is likely to result in the load being spread more evenly across varying muscles groups. In most cases, more load is placed on the lower leg area. This can be a good thing, as these muscles need to be developed and trained. To expand on this point, when you first run in super shoes, they tend to feel absolutely amazing. However, over time, this sensation may diminish. It's possible that running in them too much may result in certain muscle groups becoming 'weaker', so to speak. So, while the Endorphin Pro may feel absolutely incredible right now, in comparison to the Invincible, you may find this changes over time. It also goes without saying that the Invincible might not suit your gait and biomechanics. It could be worth trying some alternative daily mileage running shoes, to see if something else feels more comfortable. In summary, no one can tell you categorically that running in the Endorphin Pro on a regular basis will cause you to get injured. However, there's a high chance you will experience training benefits from saving them for your faster paced runs, and using something more forgiving for your slower days. It's worth noting that super shoes, such as the Endorphin Pro, also don't last as long as more durable daily mileage running shoes.

[@jasonh6910]

@@run4it thank you so much, I am still digesting your information after 2 days haha. It’s a great wealth of knowledge you shared and I thank you.

[@michaeldalziel1890]

I'm training for my first marathon and have been using Asics metaspeed sky plus for intervals and tempo runs and endorphin speed 4s for all other runs. The furthest I've run in the metaspeeds is 13k so still unsure how they'll feel for marathon distance as they feel totally different than the speed 4s, but not in a bad way. Anybody tried the metaspeed plus for marathon distance?

[@snowwalker9999]

Great video. Not many talk about this important subject.

[@Craven123]

Should you use a super shoe for long progression run? Will it ruin your vo2 training?

[@run4it]

If your long progression run is building up to race pace, or just above, wearing super shoes should help you. That type of session can create a lot of fatigue. It's likely that using super shoes in long progression runs (that build to race pace) should reduce your recovery time. This in turn, should improve the quality of the training that follows - particularly a speed focused session. You may want to opt for a super trainer as opposed to a super shoe on these runs though. For example, the Saucony Endorphin Speed features a nylon plate, and therefore doesn't feel as propulsive as the carbon plated Endorphin Pro. This may feel more comfortable at slower speeds, and also result in you enjoying a greater benefit from super shoes on race day.

[@Craven123]

@@run4it I’m am not above wearing a super shoe. I was wearing the speed 3 for my current long run. The goal is to stay healthy and get to the starting line. My only worry is would it effect my training in a negative way fitness wise?

[@run4it]

It shouldn't have a negative impact. In fact, it's likely that you should be able to accumulate more load, and therefore benefit your overall fitness.

[@Craven123]

@@run4it I know this sounds stupid but just not working as hard in training also the super shoes not feeling so special on race day I know it’s probably the wrong thought process

[@run4it]

Not at all. There's two ways to look at this: 1. If you train in super shoes on a regular basis, but don't increase your training load, then yes, you could experience some detraining. And yes, if you use your 'race day super shoes' frequently, then you may notice a smaller benefit on race day. Hence why opting for a super trainer (or older pair of super shoes) is a good idea. 2. On the other hand, while super shoes/trainers may make a given pace feel more sustainable, this may help you accumulate more load. For example, you may be able to increase the duration, intensity, quality, and frequency of key sessions, which could all lead to more functional overloading. Which in turn, will result in greater improvements in performance. Additionally, if you don't train in super shoes, you might find that certain muscle groups become overloaded on race day, as they're not used to the change in stress. In summary, using super shoes incorrectly could definitely result in a worsening of performance. Particularly if they're used for easy runs. However, if you integrate them into your training in the appropriate way (which will be different for each given runner), it should lead to improvements in overall performance. The exact reason for performance gains is likely to also be different from one runner to the next.

[@JenniferNel-lm9qd]

Should you buy super shoes the same brand as your usual running shoes? Particularly if you have custom insoles - I assume these will fit more or less the same into the same brand super shoe?

[@run4it]

Hi. That’s a great a question. As a general rule, that is likely to be the case - as the sizing should be pretty consistent from model to model. Additionally, there’s likely to be some crossover in technologies, so the underfoot experience should have an element of familiarity. However, it won’t always be the case, as some brands’ super shoes can fit very differently form their daily mileage counterparts. If there’s a specific brand or super shoe you’re interested in, we can try and answer how it would compare? Thanks.

[@mikejames3148]

Finlay you say “Supershoes are designed for running fast”. Does this not imply that supershoes are not as good a choice for everyone eg slow runners like me?

[@run4it]

Hi Mike , Thanks for the question. When we say 'fast', we mean what's relative to your slower and steady paces. When someone is running fast, relative to their slower and steady speeds, super shoes can help. However, using super shoes on slower to steady paced runs, irrespective of your pace, is not necessarily a great idea. That's why I've stated they're for your faster-paced runs. People's perception of speed is very subjective. It's best to consider the effort of your run, as opposed to thinking about absolute speed.

[@LouiseCox-gt5kk]

Thanks. I struggle to find everyday shoes for easy miles, I race in Vapoflys. What do you suggest ?

[@run4it]

Thanks for your question. If you race in Vaporflys, we'd recommend trying the Nike Invincible 3 Running Shoes for your easy miles. They feature the same ZoomX foam as the Vaporfly, but don't have a carbon plate. Nike design these specifically for easy runs and long slow miles. As a result of the thick layer of ZoomX foam, they feel very cushioned and very bouncy. We're happy to suggest other options if you've already tried the Nike Invincible 3.

[@LouiseCox-jv4kw]

I worry that these might be a bit heavy for me. Is there anything lighter ? I also can run in ASICS metaspeeds

[@run4it]

@@LouiseCox-jv4kw the Invincible should still feel light on your feet. The main reason for the increase in weight is the additional outsole rubber (which makes them very durable). There’s also slightly more padding in the upper. The benefit of doing your slow/steady runs in a heavier model is that you’ll likely notice even more of a benefit when you go to the Vaporfly for faster paced runs. A good alternative to look at would be the On Cloudeclipse. They’re lighter than the Invincible 3 and feel very cushioned/propulsive. They’re brilliant daily mileage running shoes for easy runs.