When the Rifle-Musket beat the Prussian Needle Gun (well, almost…) - the 1866 Campaign of the Main

[@misarthim6538]

I suspect that you're seriously underestimating how many people are actually interested in boring logistics of the war :-D

[@szczepanfiefiorka2107]

I LOVE LOGISTICS

[@exploatores]

a nation can have the best weapons and equipment in the world. If they don´t get their units to the right place. with the right eqipment and the units have no clue what to do and why. they are going to loose. So logistics is kind more important then the shooting part. // former Infantery soldier.

[@SirGeorgeofWorcestershire]

​@exploatores Based

[@garethfergusson9538]

He is indeed!

[@hccdgvvfccdgn993]

This guy is the perun without the PowerPoint slides.

[@benjamintrejo9307]

That dude who left the comment needs to go on a date, since he seems to be so worried about them.

[@Black_Powder_and_Minie_Ballz]

💀

[@oxicleanmassdestructionedi3650]

This came 10 years sooner than expected.

[@marcofrank2082]

Wow. Excellent analysis of what is usually only referred to as a side note in that war. As a Bavarian/Franconian who served in the German army in the nineties I really enjoyed this. When we studied it we always considered the leadership and organization as the reason for the defeat . The rifles never featured in the equation. I now live about 30 kilometers from these battlefields and I remember we used to call them Gefechte (fighting) not Battle because the loss was so clear. Thank you for putting this into a new perspective. Really mindblowing

[@Ostenjager]

Leave it to us Americans to dial in on the guns. It’s part of our culture!

[@qsywastooshort7451]

I hope you make a similar video about the Franco Prussian war, the Dreyse, the Chassepot, their use and all the good stuff surrounding them.

[@olafkunert3714]

The more useful video would be the change of Prussian artillery tactics after 1866, this change explains the ability of the Prussian infantry to fight successfully against the French infantry; the Chassepot was much better and was countered by an early combined arms approach.

[@brittakriep2938]

You have forgotten the bavarian Podewills rifles transformed into papercartridges Percussion breechloaders, and bavarian Werder centralfire rifles used by some Jäger and light cavallry.

[@hansulrichboning8551]

@@olafkunert3714 Correct. 1870 was a victory of superior logistics and artillery. The french had the superior infantry weapons. In 1866 von Moltke saw the flaws of the prussian artillery compared to the austrians and he corrected them until 1870.

[@vyderka]

neither 3rd nor pseudo :D 1st rate and not only expert in the subject matter but also a great story teller, I love listening to your lectures on YT

[@papercartridges6705]

Thanks for the encouragement! I’m still just baffled that people actually are interested in this stuff!

[@user-td3yi1mq7p]

​@@papercartridges6705 It seems there are a bunch of people, like me, on youtube who like this sort of stuff. And I really appreciate the wider context because it's important to how effective any particular weapon can be.

[@SnakebitSTI]

@@papercartridges6705Well, you're interested in it. Why wouldn't other people be?

[@ethanthompson5999]

Third rate my ass. Show me one other youtuber giving in depth explinations about this stuff. You are truly a champion to all of the 19th centuey history nerds out there.

[@gussie88bunny]

I totally agree, but would caveat there are a small squad of KZbinrs doing similar Sterling work ..... Bloke, Chap, BangBang11, British Muzzleloaders, those toilet paper black powder guys, Ian obviously...... but still, going back to your initial remark ...... all this is a drop in the ocean of content, and we're lucky to have it. Great video, thank you, Gus.

[@JosipRadnik1]

I subscribe to that 😀

[@ethanthompson5999]

@@gussie88bunny yeah, fair enough. I dont really have anything else i can say to that. Ive seen some of them, i think paper cartiges is the best in my opinion. Great stuff

[@gussie88bunny]

Ethan, I'm glad we can agree this is an excellent channel. Stay safe man

[@uwemobil8847]

Wie jemand weiter unten schon geschrieben hat, ist es auch für mich immer ein Genuss ihren Vorträgen zu zu hören. Ihre ruhige und langsame Sprechweise ermöglicht es mir darüber hinaus als Deutscher ihren Ausführungen gut zu folgen, wenn ich auch nicht jedes Wort verstehe. Die Unterlegung der Ausführungen mit diesen historischen Zeichnungen und Dokumenten ist beeindruckend. Nicht nur die "Bullets and Catridges" sind akkurat, sondern vermutlich ebenso die Vorbereitungen und Recherchen zu diesem gelungenen Vortrag und der Reise in die Zeit des "Deutschen Krieges von 1866" und der verwendeten Waffen und Taktiken.

[@SergioGomez-ib2te]

Como español tambien agradezco que hable pausadamente puedo subtitularlo y entenderlo todo bastante bien😊

[@gussie88bunny]

English speaker here ...... and I totally agree. Excellent pace.

[@kasauerkrautimgulasch]

Das muss nicht zwingend weiter unten stehen, die Kommentare sind nicht unbedingt chronologisch geordnet.

[@MrChrisStarr]

Absolutely fascinating. I have just this afternoon had to help my son with his A level History on the unification of Germany, talking with him about the Punctation of Olmütz! Never expected to hear that come up twice in one day! Storm and fire tactics were discussed.

[@unfairadvantagefilms]

This channel is awesome, it reminds me of the early days of youtube. Despite you talking about pretty intricate details in a well-researched way there's just an overall lack of like, pretension, which is really refreshing. Thanks for making this!

[@erichmiller4812]

I know an American officer who stumbled into the battle of Kissingen while temporarily assigned there for a month. He found it very familiar to the battles of Chattanooga, Fredericksburg and Harpers Ferry.

[@papercartridges6705]

He must be quite old!

[@HeiniSauerkraut]

About the training of Bavarian and other German soldiers in shooting, you have to remind the German "Schützentradition". Many Germans were organized in Schützenvereinen (target shooting clubs), a tradition which mostly derived from local militias. A tradition that even made it, through German immigrants to America. The tradition was and is even today particualry strong in Bavaria. The Bavarians also have a strong "tradition" in poaching. The heroes in many local folk tales were often poachers (fighting against the noble establishment). Against modern American myths (like the 1883 series), many German men, esspecially from the south, were well versed in the use of firearms.

[@pissfather6798]

i actually had a similar thought. i wouldnt be surprised if most of the bavarian rank and file specifically had quite a bit of personal "civilian" shooting experience that could have made up for atleast partly the lack of more rigerous military training. being from bavaria, the tradition of shooting-clubs here is indeed very widespread to this day and you can find atleast one in pretty much every local community. so yeah id have to imagine that many of these men from the countryside knew quite well how to use firearms already.

[@biggiouschinnus7489]

The stereotype of the gun-naive, horse-shy English aristocrat is another Hollywood invention, I suspect - pistol shooting and grouse shooting were the main aristocratic hobbies in Victorian Britain, and horse riding was universal. Even many middle-class townsmen were in rifle clubs or volunteer regiments.

[@trauko1388]

"...make the Dreyse fanboys really mad." ...I feel personally attacked! 🤣

[@papercartridges6705]

Shhhh… I’m secretly also a Dreyse fanboy…

[@olafkunert3714]

@@papercartridges6705 The question still is why you as infantry officer (?) do not provide a better historical context in respect to infantry doctrin before1866, that would help to shed light on some decisions and would also put into question many of your arguments. And to provide opinions of individual officers is not a good arguemnet, when the armies of the officers draw the opposite conclusion: Both the Austrians and the Bavarians switched to breechloader.

[@mikehoare6093]

@@papercartridges6705 I´m a chassepot fanboy, because the baguettes wore caps similar to those the confederates had ! 😎

[@resonancebarracuda478]

​@@mikehoare6093and also the Chassepot was a better rifle than the Dreyse. Better bullet, better wounds, better range and better system. But they were annihilated by the Krupp guns 😐😑

[@mikehoare6093]

@@resonancebarracuda478 longstreet...pfffft, beauregard would have made short work of these dimwits wearing helmets with a buttplug on top ! 😎

[@Segalmed]

There is a translation error in the text at about minute 19. He doesn't say that the firefight should be of shorter length but to the contrary that the firefight should NOT be abridged (verbleibe unverkürzt = remain unabridged), meaning that the infantry should not be forced to charge in prematurely (=abandoning shooting completely in favor of the bayonet). Also a slight error at 19:51: 'höchstens' here means 'at maximum', 'at most' or 'not higher than' (the latter being the literal meaning*). So not 'high on the shoulder' but 'at maximum at shoulder height'. *the meaning 'at most' is far more common in use now for 'höchstens', i.e. using it to describe a degree not a literal height as it is here.

[@papercartridges6705]

Thanks for the correction!

[@arid7053]

I told my wife we were going to watch 90 day fiancé. Little does she know, she’s about to learn about the Austro-Prussian war.

[@papercartridges6705]

Great, now I’m a third rate KZbinr AND grounds for divorce. Geez!

[@welporajackwelp4899]

90 day fiancé German unification edition

[@lupuscollis8985]

Excellent work and video, as a Bavarian black powder and Dreyse & Chassepot shooter I am very interested in this historical topic. I knew nothing about the completely different views of the Austrians and the Bavarians regarding the performance of the Dreyse rifle. After 1866, however, the Bavarians immediately set about converting their muzzle loaders to breech loaders, this adapted M1858 rifle is often referred to as the Podewils Lindner rifle M1858/67.👌👌👌

[@gyrene_asea4133]

Top notch exposition on little-known, but fascinating history/firearms. The breakdown you give on the importance of bullet drop in a ranged encounter was very good. If that open carton behind you is just there to provide paper tubes for your cartridges, I am relieved.

[@TheGrenadier97]

Excellent presentation. Many people still held the Dreyse in magical regard, but reality was more complex.

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

I mean, the rifles are cool. but the logistics are also cool and don't get talked about enough.

[@ferdurista]

I recently discovered your channel and these nerdy deep dives as you call them are (like the last video) very interesting. The unification wars are maybe mentioned, but not really covered in school, so I really learned a lot. Thanks and greetings from Bavaria!

[@papercartridges6705]

Vielen dank! Grüße aus Kuwait.

[@johnfisk811]

First rate nerdery Brett. Thank you. So well presented. One wonders about what changes to history would have come about had the Austrians and their allies won that war and shifted the balance of German power south.

[@andyedwards9222]

Thank you for that. Another well presented and researched video.

[@goblin11c95]

i love the nerdy deep dive videos! your sound quality(volume) is also much better then your last video.

[@TK421-53]

Keeps claiming a modest understanding of German, yet reads Fraktur and translates 19th century German into English. Thanks for including the original text, it forces me to read Fraktur - a decade ago or so I read a lot of Fraktur reading about WW1 from a German perspective. Weapons are interesting, but their technology and performance has no meaning without the historical context. This is a niche channel, but the history is excellent! Great presentation.

[@Eduard-s6d]

As always, very well analyzed👍. As a shooter of both - the Dreyse Needle rifle and the podewils rifle - I agree with you. It is much more easier to hit the target at large distances with a podewils than with a dreyse M.41 or M.62. The Dreyse had his great advantage in the defence in reducing a great number of wild advancing enemies - similar to a modern machine-gun. The Dreyse wasn´t so good in the role as a offensive-rifle - especially against an well trenched enemy. In this case the prussians have to pay with great losses. But you explained well why the Prussians were still victorious. The dreyse rifle played undoubtedly only a small part in this context and it was more a protective claim of the austrian military leaders assign the blame alone to the prussian rifle than to the own failure. But, I think THIS is even today a typical human behaviour....😆 Greatings from northern Bavaria😉

[@Bryan-2DECoGCrazyDelawares]

Why this is one of the most informal you tube channels ever learn alot!

[@bmobert]

Your intro made me laugh. I suspect it's not true but i know im too ignorant to have a useful opinion. This video was very informative. VERY informative. A truly fascinating time period. And you've made me question.what i thought i knew about it. Thank you!!

[@nikitaananjevas1614]

Thanks a lot for an eye opener!

[@user-td3yi1mq7p]

Loving this follow-up. After the first video on the topic I was cusrious how the situation with Dreyse vs rifle musket would look if the musket guys wouldn't just charge in. Also, even though I'm german I wasn't even aware of the significance of Austrias german allies in the war of 1866.

[@mikehoare6093]

Dear major, to continue this series, make some videos about podewils and werder rifles.

[@thejohhny2943]

Doctrine always seem to fluctuate between wanting to be an immovable object or an unstoppable force.

[@cartergeorge1545]

Wow, you just got yourself a sub. You humor and personality is indispensable to this awesomeness, stay you brother, Thank you!

[@ianseddon9347]

Very good and scholarly analysis, the sort of military history that modern day politicians should be taught! Thank you Sir. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@gussie88bunny]

Well golly geez, that was a great episode. Your pace, vocabulary, small gestures of emotion and emphasis, interspersed with actual historical documents, maps and illustrations is awesome. Understated and elegant. Thank you, Gus.

[@RailfanDownunder]

So very interesting after watching the various KZbin programmes on the series of wars culminating with the Franco Prussian War from Real Time History (Jesse Alexander) .... Superb work Sir

[@MrTwiggy93]

That, sir, is excellent, Bravo!

[@SacredHeartEnjoyer]

Man I love Rifle Muskets. Please review more!

[@rez4958]

Your a great speaker and teacher, god bless

[@papercartridges6705]

Thanks for the encouragement!

[@DPRK_Best_Korea]

I love logistics talk, would love to hear more.

[@johndally7994]

Thanks for another fascinating video.

[@defnotthekgb8362]

That comment at the start is extra funny considering 90% of your screen time is literally primary sources

[@robertmills8640]

Excellent Presentation 👍👍👍

[@wrxs1781]

Good video Brett, not much of a following for these 1800's conflicts, but I did learn something today.

[@bert8373]

The Bavarians also developed the excellent M1869 Werder breechloader said to be superior to both Dreyse and Chassepot

[@MrCameronian]

Excellent as usual. Small point re Prussian tactical doctrine. Austrian attacks were usually met by a two (occasionally four deep eg Huhnerwasser and Podol) deep, kneeling/standing line. Firing was by controlled volleys, generally rapid fire only employed as pursuing fire.

[@papercartridges6705]

You are quite correct. The Prussians only very rarely employed uncontrolled Schnellfeuer, and almost always used volleys. In this they were somewhat behind the trend in the rest of Europe, to avoid mass line fire.

[@christopherflynn350]

I sincerely enjoy the logistical side of warfare :D

[@Bandit-rd9xp]

Basically Austrians: IT'S THE RIFLE FROM HELL. MAN MOWER DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!! Bavarian's: eh I mean you gotta keep your head down , when it spits lead but it's nothing special on the other hand our Rifle was given to us from god himself perfected down to every detail and frankly i think i'm in love with it.

[@SStupendous]

Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me, or am I not catching what you're saying lol?

[@jd.3493]

Well done video!

[@GaveMeGrace1]

Thank you.

[@titanscerw]

Glorious work, yet again! Number of slain coment section nerds not withstanding.

[@jonswanson7766]

The ultimate design of the musket technology versus twenty five year old original bolt action, you have to factor potential the bolt action has for rifle and small arms design up to the present day. Your presentation is very welcome, excellent 👍

[@mattfaulk8724]

Ultimate design of musket using the entirely wrong tactics for it to be of any real use

[@Corrner1870]

hello, how did you get a Dreyse needle gun?

[@herbertgearing1702]

Infantry weapons are important but I think they are less important than tactics and an order of magnitude less important than logistics and strategy. You can adjust your tactics to be more effective against your opponents weapons or to optimize the effectiveness of your own. But the main reason why most armies are not equipped with the cutting edge weapons system is that unless you can implement them logistically ie equip enough soldiers to matter, supply them with a sufficient amount of ammunition and the tools to make field repairs what's the point. You also have to train your soldiers on them enough to instill faith that they can rely on their weapon to be reliable in the face of the enemy.

[@kasauerkrautimgulasch]

Very interesting lesson about our history, thanks and kind regards from the Salzkammergut (Austria, near Franz's and Sissie's summer residence xD)

[@gbkon34]

Thank you very much for this well-researched and differentiated article. Could you disclose your very interesting literary sources?

[@brittakriep2938]

A note to the troops of smaller german states. The troops of Bavaria, Saxony, Hannover, Württemberg, Baden, Hessen - Darmstadt, perhaps also Hessen- Kassel had noteable size. But the mayority of troops was not good trained, more in good militia quality. Especially artillry had limited training, the german states had been mostly poor. Also training and knowledge of NCOs , officers and staff of middlesized states was lower than Prussia and Austria. Oldenburg could field perhaps three regiments, but Mecklenburg - Schwerin, due to small Population fewer troops than expected. So the troops of midsized states had been useable, but not best best quality. And the troops of duchys, principalities and towns? In best case a midlevel trained milita batallion, but often nearly untrained companies. Smallest contingent was Liechtenstein/ 55 men. So this troops had been nearly useless like troops of HRE microstates. So the troops of small german states formed the Reservedivision, used as guards, excort, transport and Fortress troops.

[@taofledermaus]

Is that a painting of Othais from C&Rsenal ?

[@papercartridges6705]

It’s my friend Darrell from the Ministry for History channel. Bit of an inside joke. I went to an event he organized, and won a mystery prize with a raffle ticket… and it was a picture of him. So now this magnificent prize has to be in every video, of course.

[@taofledermaus]

@@papercartridges6705 Lol that's great.

[@michaelsnyder3871]

I have seen statements by "experts" on KZbin about the Prussians winning against the French in 1870-71 because they had steel breech-loading field artillery and the French were using bronze muzzle-loading smooth bores. Whether an artillery piece was breech or muzzle loading, it was still using black powder. Black powder leaves a great deal of residue in the barrel and in the loading mechanism of a breech loading rifle. Both breech-loading and muzzle-loading rifles have to have their bores swabbed to remove residue and any burning powder bag sparks. Both artillery pieces, despite the swabbing, slowly begin to be more difficult to load and operate because of this residue. Neither gun has a recoil system, which means both breech-loading and muzzle-loading guns recoil back up to 12 feet. This requires the gun crew to roll a field gun weighing one to two tons back into battery and then re-sited. Finally, black powder produces significant smoke. In the movie "Gettysburg", as Picket's Division moves through the gun line, look at what looks like fog. This was produced by a couple dozen guns firing blank charges. Imagine a gun line with 150 guns firing full charges and the smoke it would produce. The gun crew often had to cease fire from lack of targets that could be seen. This happened whether the gun was breech-loading or muzzle-loading. But, the French introduced rifled bronze guns in 1857 and updated them in 1866-69 with steel rifled tubes. The French guns had similar range and accuracy compared to the Krupp steel breechloaders and heavier shells and shot. The Prussians gained artillery superiority on the battlefield because they brought more guns to the battle and concentrated them in batteries that overwhelmed the French artillery that had been dispersed across the French army. The Dreyse and any other breech-loading rifle, such as the Hall, the Sharp and the Colt Repeating Rifle had the same problem as long as they used black powder and had no way to really seal the chamber without metallic cartridges. After 50 rounds, the bore and mechanism had to be cleaned. But the real question is that it is 1866. The Spencer rifle and carbine and the Henry rifle demonstrated the advantage of metallic cartridges, yet the Prussians retained the Dreyse, even by 1870, when brass cartridges used in Allin, Snider and other conversions or even the Remington rolling block demonstrated their superiority. BTW, the Austrian adoption of the tactic of attacks at speed through the "killing zone" to reduce their vulnerability to fire was partly due to their defeats by the French in 1859, the French using such tactics while the Austrians stood on the defensive.

[@SStupendous]

Did they have steel rifled tubes? Great comment, only French guns I've seen were the rifled conversion of 1857 which are not what sounds like quite an early rifle "sleeve" you're describing, with a tube inserted into the barrel. Have you fired any of the firearms you mentioned before? These things are variable, there's no objective 50-round limit to the guns before fouling becomes too much... to say the gas seal cannot work is untrue with paper cartridge breech loaders. The Dreyse and the Hall were very much 1840s designs, and had horrific gas leaks, hence why the Dreyse was known for hipfiring among the Prussians - meanwhile the Sharps is hardly comparable, and the mechanism literally is used today in artillery commonly up to 105mm. It was a great design, with excellent gas seal... part of why the gun was as powerful as it was and as long-lasting and popular.. Colt repeating rifle - revolving, I assume you mean - is also hardly comparable. Modern revolving rifles have the same issues, minus the risk for chainfire like percussion ones did. For the same reasons. Gas seal is not good. I missed the point on that bit when all of those guns are widely different and you can't apply them all with the same things.. But as you correctly have said, logistics and tactics are most important. 12 feet is a bit much by the way. There's a reason they had the massive wedges and sticks to reduce recoil. Many of the cannons of WW1 without the recoilless mechanisms have them being used on them too.

[@HughMEvans]

Thanks for another great video!!! Can I request a video on the 1859 war - aka "The Lorenz vs various remade French chunks of garbage" and somehow the Austrians still lost (again)???!

[@olafkunert3714]

Hardware without training is useless. The tragedy for the Austrians was that they draw the conclusion from the 1859 war that shock tactics worked, not that a good rifle training would have produced the opportunity to stop French columns.

[@herosstratos]

In 1850, the Elector of Hesse abolished the Hessian constitution and imposed martial law September 7 1850, receiving support from Bavaria and Austria, among others, who sent troops to Hesse after the majority of Hessian officers remained loyal to the constitution. Due to this development, Prussia saw the connection between the western part of the kingdom and the main part of Prussia endangered. Due to the support of Austria by the Russian Tsar, Prussia was forced to accept Austrian demands in order to avoid war. Btw.: On November 8, 1850, there was a clash near Bronnzell, south of Fulda, in which a white horse belonging to a Prussian hussar was shot by Austrian troops.

[@burninsherman8284]

It would be interesting to compare the Greene and the Dreyse.

[@castrogonzalez614]

The battle Hannover won was the battle of Langensalza.

[@olafkunert3714]

But hardly a good example considring the force ratios....

[@castrogonzalez614]

@@olafkunert3714Poor Hannoverians should have fought harder. Their kingdom was dissolved and completely annexed by Prussia after the war.

[@COLAnd-ic6yl]

3rd rate KZbinr and pseudo expert?? I think I've never heard such a detailed, clear, entertaining and academically sound discussion of a very complex and generally misunderstood/over simplified subject.. and all this done whilst on deployment. "Impressive" barely covers it.. Was really intrigued by the stats on small arms injuries over the mid-late 19th century wars. Really surprised that artillery casualties weren't higher during the Franco Prussian war as had always heard that German artillery + agile tactics and effective mobilization gave Prussia the edge vs the superior Chassepot. Are you planning any video on that war? (Apologies if they already exist and I've just missed them😅) Superb channel - just what every 19th century military history enthusiast dreams of..

[@not-a-theist8251]

Your German pronounciation is really good!

[@iobey]

Aside from the needle guns, I heard that the Prussians also used their caplock version of Potsdam muskets during the war. Did those Potsdam Muskets perform well? Also, the Potsdam Muskets still retained the double head ramrod, which reduce the process of turning the ramrod. However, is there a disadvantage of using double head ramrod?

[@papercartridges6705]

They were strictly used in a reserve capacity by soldiers in fortresses, or far from the front lines. The main Prussian armies all had the needle gun in 1866.

[@iobey]

​@@papercartridges6705 Thanks for the information, that clear some of the confusion. By the way, would the use of double head ramrod increase the loading speed significantly?

[@papercartridges6705]

Not significantly. Maybe half a second. The 1857 Vereinsgewehr has one, and because I was so used to reversing the ramrod, it was even slower for me. But I’m sure with drill and training it would be about the same.

[@iobey]

@@papercartridges6705 If it can't increase the loading speed significantly, I guess another reason to adopt the double head ramrod would be the convenience. In the heat of the battle, some soldiers might forget about the procedure of reloading in a panic. By reducing the steps needed to remember, soldiers could loading their muskets much easier under pressure. I guess that's also why the Prussians used all kinds of speed-loading methods, from the self-priming flintlock muskets to the needle guns, to simplify the training and reloading for their soldiers.

[@VictorianChinese1860]

I make the same argument for the second opium war. It’s not just about caplock rifles vs matchlock antiques. Give the Chinese all breechloaders and they would still lose due to terrible logistics and non-existence training.

[@gershonpollatschek6048]

Oh it's the crushin' Prussian again.

[@robertkalinic335]

Austrians: If you run fast enough at your enemy, the muskets make no difference. Later Austrians: i cant believe they shot me.

[@bakters]

The Prussians ended up using similar tactics, so it's hardly such a bad idea. Until the enemy has breach loaders, obviously.

[@robertkalinic335]

@@bakters Maybe you should go watch the video first.

[@bakters]

@@robertkalinic335 The general who promoted fire tactics died in a bayonet charge, not?

[@robertkalinic335]

​@@baktersIf u mean what Prussians did in Bavaria, thats night and day difference compared with Austrians who just focused on bayonet attacks. He said what was going on in Bavaria was firefight, if the Prussians lose that officer in bayonet charge it doesn't mean they used similar tactics or that Austrian tactic wasnt a bad idea.

[@bakters]

@@robertkalinic335 " *it doesn't mean they used similar tactics* " The Prussians used bayonet charges, which is a similar tactic, especially to another bayonet charge. Anyway, what were they supposed to do instead? Lay prone and engage in prolonged firefights? They had 5-10 shots before their rifles would foul up. Sooner or later they had to get up and go. Either forward or backward. " *or that Austrian tactic wasnt a bad idea* " Universally bad or specifically bad against the Prussians? I rather think it wasn't the best idea to rapidly close up to rapidly firing Prussians. It played to the strength of the Prussian equipment.

[@roryhertzog5282]

Very interesting commentary. You keep this up they will transfer you to Carlisle.

[@liverpoolirish208]

1,300 fps is close to the 1860's Enfield with J2 powder. That makes it "modern" by the 1860's standards. It would be interesting to do a video on how the Enfield was improved...

[@hansulrichboning8551]

Fun fact. The superior logistics of the prussians had their roots in the United States. von Moltke analysed the american civil war and how the Union used railways for the logistics. He copied and perfectionized the system

[@arfyego0682]

Amazing video! Weird, niche video idea: Do you know anything about rifle-musket development from other, less well known powers? Hearing and seeing this research done about Bavaria and Denmark just makes my mind stray to other countries like... The Low Countries? The Iberian Peninsula? Other German states? The Italian Peninsula? South America? What was rifle-musket technology looking like with these other, smaller regional powers?

[@olafkunert3714]

The musket development is strictly speaking a secondary matter, tactics are more important. The discussion lacks a good introduction that describes the different pre-1866 opinions and the changes directly after 1866. This introduction would have avoided some strange conclusions of the Dreyse videos and some strange comments. 🙂

[@JosipRadnik1]

I wonder how the Swiss .41 cal musket rifle of 1864 would have compared to the Podewills in terms of velocity, trajectory and accuracy. does anyone have data to compare?

[@papercartridges6705]

The .41 Swiss Jäger was a couple hundred feet per second faster.

[@sijeremy7558]

Common misconception was that the German Dreyse needle gun dominated these battles. No, it was the Krupps artillery pieces and their pioneering use of indirect artillery tactics by the Prussians.

[@Losantiville]

Not during 1866, Prussia reorganization their artillery doctrine because of poor performance. They were still transitioning to breach loading guns. Artillery batteries tended to pull back if they lost a significant number of horses. In France the nearest infantry unit became responsible for protecting Artillery taking horse losses. Those batteries would stay put no matter their mobility losses. Geoffrey Wawro is a good source.

[@colin3424]

@papercartridges6705 All your best video's seem to be the ones you think are "boring". Look at creators like TIK history or Perun, we want a series of hour long videos on the logistics of the Franco-Prussian war and deep dives into the military cultures of the different great powers of the time period you focus on. Personally Id like to hear some hot takes and stuff confronting long held but false beliefs about this period of military history, but yeah love your channel man keep it up.

[@robertkalinic335]

Tik is rather low bar for history creator, he does ok job with history but the amount of insane personal opinions he has...

[@colin3424]

TIK isn't a leftist, and that's ok.

[@robertkalinic335]

@@colin3424 Pretty funny example is that he thinks german soldiers should buy their ammo because market dynamics would solve their logistical problems. You are way underselling it

[@matthewwilliams8969]

Love the nerd out.

[@hansulrichboning8551]

At Königgrätz the prussians were proven right. During the battle the austrians tried to kick the prussians out of the Swiepwald(Forest) and they hoped to do this in close combat with bayonet-charges. In reality the austrians faced in the forest short range fire-fights and were mowed down by the needle-rifle. The austrian attempt to clear the Swiepwald opened a gap for the delayed army of the prussian crown-prince. This was the end.

[@anderss6818]

I enjoy watching your KZbin channel. You provide a lot of good information. At some point someone called you a third rate KZbinr and pseudo expert. It must have stung because I have heard you refer to it more than once. I think it is time for you to show more confidence in yourself, realize that there will always be people who think they know more than anyone else and are rude to others, and that those people are not worth your notice. Just let it go.

[@vicroc4]

Interesting, central ignition - a bit like a modern inline.

[@Zilliguy]

Would it be within the scope of this channel for you to discuss the Mitrailleuse in the Franco-Prussian war? was it a significant weapon on the battlefield or was it too uncommon or ineffective?

[@papercartridges6705]

I try to focus on things that I have, or at least have something very close to, so I can go shoot it. For the Mitrailleuse, the French gave it to artillery units, and they used it kind of like an artillery piece from long range, this somewhat diluted its effectiveness.

[@brittakriep2938]

Attention! Bavarian troops fielded two batteries of Feldl Kartätschgeschütz, also a mechanical fourbarreled weapon, one example seems to still exist.

[@jordansinclair281]

I am a Dreyse fanboy but i still love learning new things

[@OberGefreiterZ]

i think this is same sort of AK vs. AR debate, where the answer is, adapt your tactics to your kit, our your kit to your tactics(doctrine) thank you for very interesting bit of history :)

[@ahwilson1744]

If you thought that logistics were cooler, this channel would be called "Wooden Wagons". 🤔😂

[@papercartridges6705]

Don’t tempt me!

[@Thomas_Name]

No matter what the turd puppet gangsters says, this video format is my favorite on your channel.

[@papercartridges6705]

Well you are in luck then, because this format is just about all I can do while I’m stuck on this “deployment” in Kuwait.

[@eVVigilance]

​@@papercartridges6705Brett the fact that you continue to deliver content while deployed overseas at all is impressive, doubly so that quality and depth has remained.

[@Red-238]

Just a question for you personally. What do you think about Prussian army as a whole?. including General Staff, leadership and normal infantry. Do you think that they were as good as people make them up to be or were they just buffoons that relied on luck and their enemies being either idiots, tactically inept or organizationally crippled (E.g Austro-Prussian, Campaign of the Main and Franco-Prussian War) to carry them on every battle up until ww1?.

[@alberthuspeka4423]

Haha! Typical austria...Greetings from Vienna!

[@danwilliams5867]

What's surprising to me is there were neutral observers in US Civil war who watched. The tech of breech loading rifles and repeaters (Henry, Sharps etc) and none of this made it back to Europe? That in 1866 the US was the world leader in infantry rifles?

[@hansulrichboning8551]

Hannover managed to defeat the prussians in the battle of Langensalza,but in vain.There were although rumors that the bavarian general staff secretly sympathized with the prussians. Compared to 1870 the bavarian army performed poorly in 1866, maybe an indicator.

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

Watch Drachinifel's video on the naval battle of Lissa, during this same war, between Austria & Italy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKK6dWyOYrZ-iKc The Italian admiral is clearly an ancestor of the Three Stooges. 21:30 - Der boat is also covered in a Drach video. I think it was involved in that war to end all wars.

[@papercartridges6705]

I watch all his videos! I’m really interested in the pre-dreadnought era.

[@sangomasmith]

This is very interesting, not least because the Prussian response here mirrors the way the Germans went into WW1. Organised, flexible, aggressive but still prone to pushing an assault home in the face of withering fire. This is how you end up spending hundreds of thousands to push an enormous advance in service of a plan that should not have existed I'm the first place - tactics and operations over strategy, with the former almost good enough to cover the latter.

[@Trashcansam123]

Kriegshandfeuerwaffen sounds like a mouthful but my basic understanding of some German words leads me to believe it translates roughly to “hand firing war weapons” or “war firearms” is that correct?

[@michaelwright2986]

Counter-factuals are very iffy: but we might think that the Prussians armed with a good rifled musket would have beaten the Bavarians armed with the Dreyse, though the battles would have been very different?

[@RadekRaVoS]

Lol, i just got back home from Svíb forest 😅 Tea is ready, clicking play...

[@tonyZ338]

Very cool 😎

[@arghh121]

With the prussians, the final w in the name is silent -> Ceasar Rüsto(w).

[@papercartridges6705]

Just when I thought German couldn’t get any more complex…!!

[@arghh121]

@@papercartridges6705 Thank you for this super interesting video!

[@benjamintrejo9307]

36:59 it’s crazy that some history buffs forget that u can’t take historical account at face value. They read something and take it as true. Bruh.

[@robertkalinic335]

Why are you surprised, thats how narratives change.

[@olafkunert3714]

Sorry, here you make a quite common mistake, you take one opinion without putting this opinion into a context that supports the opinion. The observations are correct that attacking columns suffer horribly from Dreyse rifle fire, the Prussians used the same examples in their analysis after 1866. So we can of course draw the conclusion that bad tactics made the affair worse. However, there are not many examples that show that better tactics would make the Minie system a competitive solution. Hint: The Prussians had also some room for tactical improvements, was Kissingen an example of top Prussian tactics? 🙂 However, the interesting aspect is that the Austrians, French, Bavarians and Brits (!) changed their Minie system into a breechloader system in 1867/68. Why would they do this if the Minie system is still competitive? It is obvious that many pre-war arguments had been wrong.

[@erloriel]

How did he misinterpret that source? Also, writing things like "u" and "bruh" doesn't exactly make it seem like you really want a serious discussion here.

[@shrekas2966]

I have a question about the ideas of military theory of austrians. Why would they have guns, if they are primarily charging in? Why not have cold weapons instead? Not everyine, but i mean mixed up in the lines when charging. That would be much cheaper than to make rifles they would barely shoot. Also, why would the german confederation fight against whats essentially their independance?

[@olafkunert3714]

" Why would they have guns, if they are primarily charging in? " That was a result of the 1859 war against France. The Austrians were not well trained and their Lorenz rifles did not stop the enemy who had smoothbore weapons and used shock tactics (columns supported by mobile artillery). So Austrian officers draw the conclusion that shock tactics were the way to go.

[@ZS-rw4qq]

4:39 I understand this question might not be your field of expertise, but do you know how closely these lines follow the religious affiliation among the German speakers? Is it like Catholics with Austria and Protestants with Prussia?

[@papercartridges6705]

In general, mostly yes, but this was mostly coincidence and the legacy of the political settlements after the reformation and thirty years war, rather than any significant religious motivation in 1866. Prussia and its allies had a significant Catholic population and Austria had Protestant allies and also a large Calvinist minority in Hungary.

[@ZS-rw4qq]

@@papercartridges6705 Great answer, thanks!

[@avus-kw2f213]

6:12 so it was 1850 which caused the Great War

[@matthewwilliams8969]

@papercartridges6705 can you do a thing on the Chassepot? It even has paper cartridges. You could do the Battle of Gravelotte, even. What's not to like about the Franco-Prussion war. The French lost.

[@papercartridges6705]

I will once I get one!