*When They're Done Right

[@Rycluse]

Hey Rycluse did you know about the Sunflower from PvZ

[@neonintention]

H i

[@mastercosmo9368]

I just went on an XCOM binge and rewatched your old videos. Glad to see your still active

[@ms.watakamis947]

no i didnt

[@reverendnon5959]

Yes, why?

[@Largest_M]

elo

[@alizard7617]

As a scout main, I can confirm any moment in my life where that number in the bottom left doesn’t read 125 is pure agony.

[@Geedly]

To be fair, you’re always only 25 health away from being oneshot by basically every explosive weapon (Also a good medic should be trying to overheal you, an overhealed scout is a scary scout)

[@yardenar2717]

@@Geedly *overhealed scout tps in front of you*

[@salt-d2032]

@@Geedly TRUUUU I always buff the scout

[@the_apotecary_from_tf2]

How about 185?

[@Life-pq6lz]

ONLY TWO PIPES TAKES AWAY ME FROM YOU

[@bubbaloobub3592]

using silhouettes to obscure tf2 characters is like hiding by covering your face with your hands

[@Imanifestchaos]

The latter is pretty fuckin hot doe

[@bloodysimile4893]

Work for superman. Those glass make him a completely different person.

[@sneakylilgobby4367]

Shows how much effort went to tf2s character design

[@italianbuffoon9953]

lol i said the exact same thing 4 weeks ago on a different vid

[@hypercube3495]

Lol I've done everything in my power to avoid tf2 after downloading it and hating the game so I actually didn't recognize the medics silhouette

[@Duskets]

There’s also the effect of looking at the scoreboard. A good Medic in TF2 will always be at or near the top of the scoreboard, meaning the player recognizes that their contribution to the team helped distinguish them as a key player.

[@maximilianolopez5743]

Frfr, as a dedicated medic main, nothing hits harder than being well n°3 to 1 at the scoreboard, because i makes me feel like i was useful, like i was a good teammate

[@charlodynatimberheart4860]

I feel this. Sometimes when I'm having a bad day and just want a cheap surge of dopamine, I play medic on payload. Even if we lose, feeling like a useful asset to my team fixes my mood right up.

[@drakonlegend4452]

Reminds me of BF, where a good medic will be sooooo far ahead of everyone in the scoreboard.

[@thedeliveryboy1123]

Doctor really IS credit to team!

[@yamnbam4346]

Overwatch used to have something similar at the end of the match. Dunno why that was removed.

[@shrubman3605]

"crisis management" is actually one of the most exact descriptions for medic. You have to babysit children that use the worst weapons for the game, whilst trying to keep yourself alive from the pyro that completely ignores the five teammates he walks past just to turn you into ash.

[@sakura9959]

But mercy kind of plays like that and everyone knows she is the medic of overwatch. Like, the most fun I’ve had with her is when fights feel like that, like you are managing a chaos and coming out on top, plus u can do all that while strategically flying.

[@crystallian]

@@sakura9959 Not at all. Comparing Medic to Mercy is like comparing a 5 star restaurant to home cooking. While one is nice, and enjoyable, the other is just on a whole other level. Mercy is... FINE, but she's not comparable to Medic. The way you fight, and CAN fight with Medic are vastly different to Mercy which gets 1 'viable' playstyle ASSUMING the opposing players aren't less than 90% braindead.

[@sakura9959]

@@crystallian Well but i dont think the video or the original comment does a good job of explaining the difference why. Other than the medic’s ult i don’t what makes him so much better

[@realdragon]

I have Heavy at 10 HP in front lines not backing out, everybody around cart tanked 2 stickies and soldier that is on fire yells for medic and I'm the only medic. Yeah crisis management is good way to describe it, in case where everybody thinks they have uber 24/7 because I am med and they mindlessly rush to solo entire team I switch to quickfix

[@crystallian]

@@sakura9959 Mercy, you're "babysitting" a team by pocketing a sojurn. Medic? Well depending on build, your ubercharge can do a number of things, as well as how you dish out healing. Going classic makes you standard, but no less powerful. The invulnerability is crazy. Krieg medics can turn a team into swiss cheese with perfect timing thanks to crit boosts. Vacc medic can counter entire classes by timing his uber, and can stack 4 short ubers for different types. Quick-Fix? You don't want invuln, but the heal rate lets you, under good timing, nullify pushes whilst being able to keep everyone topped off instead of making you and one other person equivalent to a god. Pirmary also mattesr. Crossbow is ranged healing, but the other options can provide self sustain, movement, a default but still alright damage source, and such. Same deal with the melees. And any combination of these lets you tackle different situations, team comps, and so on. Describing medic is hard because there's so many builds that are possible AND viable. Everything has its place. Some things might be better, but it all has a time and purpose. You might also rotate which loadout your using further adding depth into when to use what, and if you want to give up any amount of charge (ult percent if you want to think of it like that even though it's not an ult), to switch. It's crisis management, risk/reward, healing, support, damage, and team leading. Medic is the backbone of any good team, and honestly who the IGL usually is because without your Medic, your as good as dead. Unlike OW which rewards solo plays over team play. Because while that 1 pick could win you the team fight, there's also significant downsides to going after it. Or, that 1 pick could mean nothing and you still lose the team fight. In OW2, a single pick could mean you lose the fight no matter what. TF2 is an extremely deep game, and by crisis management, we mean as the medic/team leader, it is YOUR responsibility to keep the team organized, going, and alive. Not the tank's or the DPS. The Medic's. Unlike Mercy who just exists and basically is never really 'core' to the team. As I said, Mercy is "fine", but Medic is what a healer should be. The core and foundation of your team. Not some tacked on afterthought.

[@blacklight683]

"Healing is not as rewarding as hurting" -literally the medic in tf2

[@DainKeith]

Yea sounds like the crazy German dokter

[@Medic_TFTwo]

This quote seems familiar

[@driuanderer]

*"ze healing iz not as rewarding as ze hurting

[@justnoob8141]

“Beg the differ” -BF medic with a dirty syringe

[@samuelflipaclip7415]

@@justnoob8141the chad heals everyone medic : I beg to differ E v e n. T h o u g h. T h e r e. I s. N o n e

[@avery2041]

To me, my biggest love for the medic is his personality. So many healers often seem to be super loving/selfless goodie two shoes like Mercy. He heals so he can prolong the bloodlust/carnage of himself and his teammates to see if any battle outcomes can benefit his morbid curiosity.

[@dangermjor]

Which is why Moira is kind of fun. She considers her healing just live animal testing.

[@dreamwalking]

Mercy does have at least a bit going for her though. From her passive aggressive "You're welcome" voiceline to her emote where she checks her pulse and then shrugs, apparently unable to find anything, there are little hints at a bit more aggression and medical experimentation. Mercy being responsible for Reaper's condition was definitely one of the best aspects of her backstory, and so of course they retconned it.

[@TheRusty]

@@dangermjor Moira's "fun" because she gets value by ignoring her team and pushing W no matter what. She's vampire junkrat.

[@cachalotreal]

We all love a megalomaniac sociopathic monster

[@zynet_eseled]

I want to write up a character for a field medic who only focuses on doing the healing and lending aid + bullets to block out the nightmares, and beneath I'd a bloodlust fueled psychopath who is capable of torturing people through what amounts to recontextualized lag loops and turning their bodies into chunks of meat when they are flayed out from it. Think PTSD survivor meets possessed mass murderer.

[@Volthoom]

To this day, i have no idea how TF2 came to be. Like, seriously, the game design for that one was literal decades ahead of its time.

[@MaxRavenclaw]

I think it's more of a case of good design that has not been achieved since.

[@алексейЦыплёнков-ф6о]

@@MaxRavenclaw yeah, valve really were trying their best at the time, and it shows to this day.

[@Tyneher95]

nine years in development

[@The_zickron]

It was because the game is in 9 years of development

[@jaredhebert942]

It was, indeed, *_Worth The Weight TM_* - as TF2's still enjoyable & rewarding cross the board (gameplay, mechanics, cast, world & lore, etc.) to this very day in spite of botters, hackers or the lack of new weapons & major rebalances for the existing armory since 2018 I still hope Valve brass can buck up & get more hands on deck to fix the issues for a new renaissance, of course, but existing systems like letting anyone run an online or local server has also helped with TF2's longevity & resilience

[@Maxler5795]

I love tf2 because its both an intentional and accidental masterpiece.

[@yuricock]

tf2 is everything and nothing at the same time i hope it lives forever

[@electricfeverx976]

Accidental is the perfect way to describe a game that has coconut.jpg as an essential file

[@pancakesareawesome3121]

Pootis

[@pancakesareawesome3121]

**insert laugh track here**

[@shadmage3762]

​@@electricfeverx976 cocunuts dont break the game but the 2fort cow does

[@michaelthesanta3610]

I do believe the crusaders crossbow is a notable factor in why medic is so much more fun to play than you'd expect from a healer.

[@SJrad]

Yeah its great healling someone like heavy taking a ton of damage, by shooting the crusaders and using medigun In between shots.

[@NcrXnbi]

I love killing passive snipers with the crusaders crossbow. Or heavies commiting to just spinning their miniguns.

[@ItsMeLarky]

I agree! There was this heavy I was working with where he would just shred the enemy team while I was shooting crossbows into him while switching to my medigun here and there. :D the heavy even said "oh god thank you" in voice chat since I kept him alive for so long xD Really fun seeing teammate's HP go from a red to that satisfying white cross!!!

[@hyperventalated]

Majorly agree. The risk reward of hitting a crossbow shot on a teammate mid-fight to make switching off the consistent heal of the medigun worth it is so satisfying. And it expands your effective healing range in a skill-based way as well. Absolutely brilliant weapon.

[@Kayther33]

So we need to give the sniper of ana to mercy?

[@Toopys]

I love the way you said that heavy is about situational awareness at 5:40 and show a clip of a heavy completely unaware that both of you are in danger from the pyro 10/10 joke, love it!

[@pizzaboi0263]

I found Tooper! :O

[@Feangar]

​ @Pizzaboi02 And here we find the Toopy in their natural habitat of the comment section of a TF2 related video....

[@Aflay1]

It actually perfectly explains why I'm perfect with Medic and absolutely awful with Heavy and other carry classes. My situational awareness is dogshit, and I'm not necessarily unskilled with classes like the demoman or engineer, but I'm definitely far more skilled with crisis management, and find the feeling of rescuing a team that is low on health and moral absolutely gratifying.

[@sh4d980]

agreed

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@Aflay1 how do you look at a group of 5 people and see who has the lowest health, and then decide who to beam or crossbow but not notice, say, a teammate behind you suddenly do a death scream

[@senabecool7232]

To think the best healer in PvP games is one who is insane and actively performs "Frankenstein" experiments on his own team

[@gregoirebasseville4797]

What do you mean "Frankenstein" experiments? It's just a normal medic. I mean, maybe he stole a skeleton, put a soul in a pumpkin, sew baboon uteruses in employers, stole his entire team's souls, tricked the devil, resurrected sniper, made a spy head immortal... ... Wait

[@leodaoust8035]

@@gregoirebasseville4797 that last part was an accident

[@isaacbatgamer9958]

@@leodaoust8035 the fact it was an accident makes it scarier

[@ArchSchizo]

TF2 Medic thematically is total opposite to Mercy in Overwatch, which is weird because Medic would be raising the dead and Mercy should be granting invulnerability. I'm pretty sure Blizzard was just too scared of copying other games and had to evade a few good choices. BTW The reason Paladins and Overwatch have so much overlap is because they both took inspiration from Global Agenda. Both games were in development for a while before going public, so its just an odd coincidence. Roadhog/Makoa, Pharah/Drogoz, stuff like that.

[@Mykure_]

@@ArchSchizo yeah only difference is paladins and global agenda was made by hirez (I'm sure you know that tho). And hirez also made tribes which inspired global agenda.

[@alexk9402]

i love how powerful the medic feels. getting an assist with mercy feels like giving a high five to whoever got the kill. getting an assist with medic feels like getting the kill through whoever got it

[@prawn1717]

When you play medic, your teammates are your weapons

[@UnfathomablyRR]

When you own a Killstreak Medigun and you’re healing a teammate, every kill that teammate gets whilst you’re healing them in the moment they got the kill, gets added to your killstreak count. Meaning, if you’re pocketing a Heavy with a killstreak Kritzkreig, any critical hit kills that Heavy gets in the next 10 seconds of those critical hits being provided WILL count towards your killstreak. Same thing with or without ubercharge.

[@lmahu6627]

One of the last shots in "Meet the Medic" visualizes your comment. Yeah, Heavy is the one directly mowing down the BLU team, but Medic gave him that power; he's the one standing triumphantly on the pile of his enemies' bodies.

[@obitosenju3768]

Because you kinda did. Being the only one who can heal the team means so much. In Ow2 because of the size of the team and the required healers or straight-up nom healers that heal themselves you will sometimes feel like just like support.

[@zuckergolf4442]

It’s literally the same thing though

[@Mattschoe]

I also like how the medic is the only tf2 character that has a "ultimate". Really shows how important it is to have him on your team

[@obitosenju3768]

Also he is the only charachter that outheals essentially making you not need to take medkits to heal small wounds. You feel important and you are.

[@generalzeta7000]

There one other character with an an ultimate that helps the team. The Solder and his Banners. Some of the other classes do have healing or support for team mates, but they are far from as effective as THE Medic. Heavy can toss out a lunch box item as a health pack for team mates, scout can toss milk to make anyone heal on hitting that target, Solder's Concheror can grant team mates vampiric damage when active. And then we have engineer dispensers, the 2ed most consistent source of healing in the game. Then you got non-healing support like jarate/Sydney Sleeper, the disciplinary action, gas passer, homewrecker, short Circuit, and the other 2 of solder's banners.

[@indytiberius]

auughhh i'm ULTinGG

[@elduquecaradura1468]

Doesn't Demoman have sticky mines that acts like a trap for enemies?

[@sugarqcoat]

well there's actually quite a bit of "ultimates" in tf2. You have every soldier banner, hmphh meter and focus!

[@blushingralseiuwu2222]

I love being a healer too, the god complex you have is insane. That moment when you can heal that toxic teammate, but you just stare them down doing nothing, making them realize their foolish decision to make the healer angry.

[@Rycluse]

I think you got into the profession for the wrong reason lol

[@thomasguay4157]

@@Rycluse sounds like you dont know about a certain medic without licence, despite talking about him in your vid

[@Shagaru_Bleed]

@@thomasguay4157 Playing a tank is the complete opposite. If I can't get hurt or be touched I don't want to be healed. If I can heal myself back to full too easily then heal someone else. Call an ambulance. But not for me.

[@magical571]

@@Shagaru_Bleed so, you are a heavy with a banana

[@Shagaru_Bleed]

@@magical571 myes.

[@thegloriousryan8981]

For me personally, one of the biggest parts of medic that makes him so satisfying is the IMMEDIATE fight swing that turning on an uber causes. Your team could be on the backfoot, a scout moments away from a fatal meatshot on you, but if you pop that ubercharge, you haven't just given your team an advantage; it feels like you physically DEMAND that the enemy team back up or be curbstomped by your patient. It's such a feeling of power, and most games don't have abilities that even come close, leading you to chase that ever possible dopamine surge through building your ubercharge.

[@thomasguay4157]

indeed,Healing or otherwise "support" roles need that their effects are both "unique" and powerfull enough to be sought for by players or worth trying to prevent the opposition from using them. in this case, Medic can do Overheal (which as far as i know, only the kunai spy can receive that, outside of mediguns) and ubercharge. is there anything more dangerous and terrifying than an ennemy who simply CANNOT die in a game revolving around doing big damage? not really. who else can do complete damage immunity? nobody (aside from phlog pyro when activating their crits, but it dosent count)! if another classses could do that or a medkit spawning around could also give full blown invicibility, pretty sure Medic would have fallen from "Essential for a good team" to "Meh, C tier".

[@shaddysehly5040]

@@thomasguay4157 scout can do it with bonk at the cost of doing do damage, which makes it kinda like ubercharge but its more of an escape option or a flank around that sentry option

[@thomasguay4157]

@@shaddysehly5040 yeah, but bonk prevents most actions, making it pretty limited in what you can do with it. Ubercharge dosent. There is no other thing in the game that both negates any DMG AND allows shooting back. When a scout is using bonk, you don't fear for your life (at least, not from the bonked up scout), as the scout can only pretty much stare you down, taunt or trashtalk in hopes you kill yourself/leave the game or he flees like the coward he is. Uber, on the other hand, could might as well be a neon sign or a speaker screaming "DO NOT ENGAGE, RUN AND HOPE IM TOO SLOW/BUSY TO DEAL WITH YOU". Maybe you are right that it's not exactly "unique" as I previously said. Is ubercharge powerfull enough to surpass the "diet" versions of it (a.k.a, Bonk)? Yes, and by a LOOOOOONG shot

[@shaddysehly5040]

@@thomasguay4157 thats what i literally said

[@thomasguay4157]

@@shaddysehly5040 yes, I said that what you said was right

[@TheMadRatKing]

I love playing medic. Whenever I see my teammates health go red and I’m NOT a medic, a part of me dies knowing I could have saved them if I was. Refilling my team’s health and keeping them in the fight not only lets them have more fun instead of spending time waiting to respawn, it’s incredibly satisfying on my end because I know I’m both being a huge benefit and presence in the match AND enjoying making those health bars go back to full.

[@yuanwang9324]

You sir, are a legend

[@yeetandyum3709]

You are a chad. No like literally, your name’s probably Chad Chad

[@MedicFromTF2_REAL]

Omg same, I know the feeling of seeing low health team mates and forgetting I'm not medic lol

[@clasy01]

I don't understand how you do it. I played a medic game recently, realised I suck at it and went back to being an engineer.

[@TheMadRatKing]

@@clasy01 ive tried being an engineer, but the kind of multitasking I have to have for it is a very different and much less fun style of gameplay for me. Im not some uncle dane battle engie who can dive into the fray with a sentry and wreck shit like I wish I could, but I know that I like to be a big influence on my team in ways that other people usually don’t like. I love flicking my medigun around and catching people instants away from death and turning their retreat into a turnaround right back into the fight, and I love the struggle of trying to stay alive, or even defend myself, for the sake of keeping as many health bars topped off as possible. Medic is a form of catharsis for me, because i hate watching my teammates die when I know I can do something about it. Thats actually one of the reasons the quick-fix is my favorite medigun, because i can more quickly and frequently get injured teammates back up and ready to fight faster than anyone or anything else, and the more healthy my teammates are, the better. I’d much rather keep as many teammates alive and fighting as possible than stick to one person single person at the detriment of everyone else. As far as Im concerned, giving my team more opportunities to play and get shit done brings me a sense of satisfaction greater than any amount of kills will ever be able to.

[@Cheesemeister27]

Supports are made to support your teammates, not just healing. Thats why engineer is also a support class. He builds turrets to draw attention away from temmates, dispensers for healing AND ammo, and teleporters for a quicker way to get to the front lines.

[@bdura2021]

Sniper being considered a support class instead of Engineer doesn't make much sense to me

[@Cheesemeister27]

@@bdura2021 They aren't really made to do damage, they're more made to kill high priority targets, like heavies and medics.

[@aegerman6317]

@@bdura2021In addition, snipers are considered support in real life too. They provide cover for the team, but aren’t often capable of carrying out the mission themselves. Snipers are support in the sense that they bring usefulness to the team outside direct pressure on the objective. That’s why the “support vs healer” debate can’t have a conclusion. All team members support each other in some way, and there are many definitions and applications of the word “support”.

[@genericasianperson6405]

​@@bdura2021he locks down an area with just his presence and picks off high value targets

[@magical571]

@@genericasianperson6405 in theory, yes. in practice, sniper on tf2 with the years has become the strongest dps class lol, sure he can take key picks, and everyone else other than a scout while he is at it 😂😂part of the issue comes down to map design too though

[@neo4016]

A wise medicinal man without a license said: "ze healing is not as rewarding as ze hurting"

[@cloamker2533]

One of the loading tips in tf2 should be “always thank your medic!” Because even if it’s small, just two keys to say thanks, it’s nice for them to know you appreciate them.

[@grungusbulungus]

Team mates actually auto thank you after disconnecting your beam, which was a nice touch

[@cloamker2533]

@@grungusbulungus those have unique lines, as apposed to your thanks button with the key bind voice lines which is also interesting.

[@lemonice]

Z2 Z2 Z2 X5

[@MRDarkman]

And then Demoman says: "I DIDN'T NEED YA HELP, YA KNOW?!?"

[@cloamker2533]

@@MRDarkman I know what it means, they tried to say thanks, so it still makes me happy

[@trinitroid7893]

In the Garden Warfare series, healers and supports are known to cause more destruction than what they seem to do, and I found it funny that seeing a healer charging at you is considered terrifying at most. Most of the time they tend to heal themselves than their teammates.

[@TheTrueUltimateGenLifeform]

Nothing like a Super Brainz just getting lasered by a Sunflower.

[@chrisfuerte1622]

Absolutely false, I used my mega heal bomb to heal an SB once. And no, it wasn’t because he was close to me when I was trying to heal myself. I was trying to push him off a cliff.

[@jblazerndrowzy]

@@chrisfuerte1622 Spoken like a true Scientist main

[@TheFoolish727]

Listen,ok the crunch time jingle rocks!

[@noproblem2333]

Sunflowers. We all hate them.

[@canaldecasta]

Nothing more rewarding that watching your mates live to tell another day.

[@NotWendy3]

Ze healing is not as rewarding as ze hurting. But healing also means a lot more pain can be endured AND put out into the world by your teammates. So it evens out.

[@suarez9108]

"I healed the man that will kill you." That's the ultimate reward you get

[@Sextistsheep]

Killing another healer after your dps dies

[@sundaddy1077]

when your soldier captures a point you feel like a proud parent fr like attaboy

[@Drekromancer]

@@suarez9108 "You can't defeat me." "No. _But he can!"_

[@miimiiandco]

Playing as a healer often makes you feel more connected to your teammates. Sticking by them so much, you can watch how they play, and how they act, while being the one to keep them alive.

[@ptolemaicfoxxo3032]

The best beginner advice to the game command and conquer Renegade is to literally pick engineer and repair your teams vehicles and buildings Your basically an extension of the tank that keeps it alive to hold ground for your team

[@gladoseon4117]

And then there’s Team Fortress 2. “WHERE THE FUCK IS MY TEAM DYDUFNCH I NCDBSJUST DNDNDSIJD DJCC”

[@Soul.Resonant]

And then there's BFN where healers are the most broken characters in the games

[@johanninferus4845]

Also, I found that healers can actually help to coordinate a team. Waiting for a push, helping the players that are going to the objectives instead of fooling around. Want healing? GET OVER HERE AND HELP ME WITH THE DEFENSE

[@flufferusgoobus]

Once I start with playing Healer I can't get off of it because if I choose anything else, I feel sad in seeing a wounded teammate but being completely unable to heal him

[@Arcae95]

I’d say Lucio is the my favorite healer character because of how fun they made being a high priority target for him.

[@Insane_reaper48]

I agree with your idea of Lucio being fun based.

[@EnbyNomad]

I love healers; being the deciding factor in fights with macro decisions and perfectly timing your supportive abilities. D&D does it perfectly for me. As a Lore Bard focused on roll manipulation, cc, and healing, you get to feel like a conductor controlling the flow and pace of a fight. Games like league and overwatch have certain cases and times that you're allowed to have that kind of agency as a support but more often than not you are at the mercy of your team more than any other role

[@starcraft2own]

A support cannot win a game after all, it's just part of the class description. All a support does is buff the other classes to increase their odds of winning. You can have all the healing in the world but if your carry doesn't land their shots then there is no win condition. This is actually why most supports aren't made in the mercy/medic/bard/priest way anymore is to give support characters their own win condition by allowing them to do their own damage giving you all the half-supports there are out there. But you do sign up to be at the mercy of your team by picking a class who's goal is not to win the game but to prevent the loss of it instead. Even if you play perfectly you still rely on the game winners to win the game. I never really understood why people who main this role in various games complain about this all the time, it's in the name of your class that you're not the main character, you're the support.

[@EnbyNomad]

@@starcraft2own For me, I like to control the tempo of a fight, and having agency within them, ie a dnd support. Capable of bypasssing encounters through clever usage of ability not just "winning fights'

[@arcionek]

I usually go with healers in games, and was trying to lean a bit towards one dnd as Paladin. How is playing as full on support like? Does it mainly depend on the party/dm?

[@uraveragehoovy]

On the topic of controlling the tempo of a fight, I think Medic was masterfully designed (or a miracle happened) in that regard. In a casual game of TF2 where bullets, rockets, and people are flying around in a complete frenzy 24/7 and the only thing keeping people from flying off to god knows where is the objective it’s nearly impossible for one person to control the tempo of the game. Medic is all about finding the most major errors in your team’s tempo and working to correct and improve them. The problem with this is that you can only fix and improve so much. And that’s where the Uber comes in. The ability to completely redirect the stream of chaos and focus the tempo of the game onto yourself. You and your partner become the conductors of the game for 8 seconds. No song is perfect, every song has it’s low points, but it’s the low points that make the bass drop all that much sweeter.

[@yuvalgabay1023]

Medics in 5e all ways feel kinda week tbh. Like they are good off battles. But in Battle (in higher levels not in low ones) it's some times feel you just here to get some one from 0 HP. Because you rarely be able to out heal an attack

[@cristobalgarces1675]

I always liked the Sunflower in PvZ. She was always fun to play and she could hold her own. I like that you can heal and shoot at the same time.

[@BlueArmor]

I love how customizable her skillset is with different variants of characters and abilities. My favorite healing character by far.

[@lol_una]

Stuffy flower my beloved

[@Mathtriqueur]

Meanwhile, the scientist. Teleport near an unexpected plant, blast them for half their health, finish them before they start shooting back, place a heal station for you and your team while you prepare your next game plan.

[@cristobalgarces1675]

@@Mathtriqueur Ehh, I view the scientist how I view any game that has a shotgun. No skill. Lol. Sunflower is more well rounded and has much higher heals for an individual target.

[@obitosenju3768]

​@@cristobalgarces1675 There is a non shotgun Scientist variant.

[@thatsplinter]

I don't play Paladins much, BUT, Rei is one of my favourite playable characters ever. Her animations along with satisfying sound effects just does it for me.

[@Rycluse]

I love how she reloads by cracking her knuckles and shaking out her wrists

[@Jaffersin]

@@Rycluse Don't forget she has different weapon inspects for if she has a tether up or not. How do you feel now that her ult has been run back to being a poor man's Ubercharge and that they've rolled the passive ult gain from her tether from a card into her base kit?

[@hauntorthegiraffebiscuit]

I started as healer in these types of games because I'm both bad at aiming and have a horrible connection, but stuck with it because buffing and healing felt better than pointing and clicking at the enemy team all the time. I'm not one for the traditional FPS in general, but I enjoy knowing that I can still support (heh) my team in spite of my bad aim.

[@goodboi1725]

The core aspect that I like about TF2 that differentiates it from typical FPS gameplay is its mix of casual and team gameplay. You have two poisons, little to no coordination, but the team still has the end goal of completing the objective, and a competitive shitfest ever since call of duty matchmaking. Casual gameplay, is well, casual, and allows you to improve without getting immediately stomped by the entire enemy team, but instead, one to two pub stompers. With team gameplay in mind, you also have to figure out a way to aid your team without dying in vain. Sometimes I wish more games would just sit back and embrace the casual side of a community, its just way less stressful and the extremely competitive folks can still organize their own ranks (if the development team actually helps them for fuck's sake)

[@uraveragehoovy]

Funnily enough I could have become a medic main in a not so alternate reality considering how I also have shit connection and even shittier aim. I just tried Soldier first and fell in love with that.

[@ingame_yourself]

Relatable

[@BobFudgee]

Literally the exact same reason here mostly because I started on console and I'd rather rub my member over spikey hot molten coal than try to perfect aim on console.

[@Sleepy_Cabbage]

The Sunflower from gardenwarfare i feel is a unique case, sure she has healing abilitys like her beam and her healflower deployable, but what truely makes her special is her revive passive, which allows her to revive teammates at twice the speed of other classes, and cause revives require you to stand still, its a risky move for her, but your rewarded with allowing your teammate to get back into the fray and possibly turn the tide of a battle. This gives sunflower a unique proposition, either run away and find allies to back you up again, or risk it all in the middle of combat for a quick switch in the tide of battle, not to mention those moments were you have a full group of teammates that are down and nearby each other, that quick revive time really makes you feel like the savour of your team sometimes.

[@angryfreak2720]

Scientist can also do that but is more offensive focused due to the shotgun based primary weapon the class has. Which results in a stereotype where some Scientists don't heal or revive teammates at all and instead go straight into the fight as a shotgun offensive class.

[@jblazerndrowzy]

It’s that, and the fact that she has a fucking death ray for an ability

[@TheFoolish727]

I like to do that but as scientist,even if I am the only person who does in the community

[@wormfrend]

I sure miss when PC GW2 was still playable :(

[@refusingtoconform]

GW2 had a more worthy case to ascend TF2's throne than Overwatch.

[@autronic9306]

The healer class in terraria from thorium mod is what really made me love supports, you clearly have 1/4 of your allies DPS but the buffs you provide them when healing them really adds to the experience, the same could be said for the bard class, a more offense support class

[@pipmiller8303]

As someone who regularly plays the bard class I second this message, the shenanigans you can get up to with a bard, a healer, and a mage/melee/ranged player are nothing short of glorious

[@indiana47]

For me, it was Maya from Borderlands 2 that made me love supprt/healer. Res is awesome and the healing is stupidly stromg at higher levels.

[@sneko2860]

​@@indiana47yes but the best part about Maya is she's still a good enough character that playing her in solo games is still good, one of the best in fact.

[@indiana47]

@@sneko2860 yeah, my current build on her is a solo one because I don't have anyone to play with. She is still very strong, but a little less fun.

[@chee.rah.monurB]

Sounds interesting.Where can I best find videos of this new Thorium mod?

[@awdsgrgde6979]

Let's be fair though. Mercy is in no way a passive healer. The skill gap comes not really in beam usage, but in movement. There are lots of gimmicks to her mobility. Hence why, the skill gap between a good and a bad Mercy is tremendous.

[@ilyakusenco8151]

Honestly, that's the case about most of the characters in Overwatch, some are less than others. Genji or Reaper with bad movement is a free kill, but the one with amazing movement skills would make it look so easy.

[@WraithReaper09]

Movement and map knowledge are a core of being good in any shooter.

[@awdsgrgde6979]

@@WraithReaper09 True. But not every shooter has Guardian Angel slingshots, powerjumps, crouching GA, etc. These are character specific gimmicks.

[@solisimperium1203]

very true

[@Kiernimbus]

I feel this video does bring up valid points for sure, but this is definitely my thinking. You CAN compare Medic and Mercy, but there's going to be nuance in a discussion like this. High-level mercy players have a constant cat and mouse game in trying to avoid the DPS. Positioning and movement are critical, and makes the character have a lot more depth than at first glance.

[@Koffee_Kake1941]

Playing Medic is like playing chess, on top of a jenga tower, during a hailstorm, while someone plays kazoo behind you.

[@yazidefirenze]

the kazoo adds to the chaos

[@Drekromancer]

If that doesn't describe the soul of TF2, idk what does.

[@bellojello5756]

Add someone yodelling “MEDICCCC!!” Into ur ear and the jenga tower also has whirlpool underneath

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

Oh, and the chess match has a timer, and if your timer hits 0, you lose.

[@feltstuffing]

@@Aaa-vp6ugboth jenga and chess have a timer

[@TheKikolito]

I think being a medic in Battlefield is worth mentioning, specifically BF1. Although you are a medic you have every right to have any gun in your load out and reach the objective. The only difference is your healing abilities. It is your task to heal whoever is low on health on the way to the objective. On the battlefield, everything is hectic and no one expects there to be a medic. You have to be personally willing to heal that solider, and it makes it all dramatic when you go through trenches and fire to reach them. When you revive a downed group, you feel like a gaurdian angel giving a second chance to battalion.

[@warmike]

Exactly! And the video completely skipped over reviving dead teammates as a healer ability.

[@Rycluse]

The working title for this video was "Healers peaked in 2007 and I'm mad as hell" As I implied here, this video was originally intended for like June but I was doing other stuff for a while plus I REALLY didn't want to spend money on Overwatch. This video got me back into the swing of things though and I'm jazzed as hell to work on something new. The "new" thing will potentially be kinda big though so I'm more open to suggestions than usual for in-between content (did you know the Phoenix Point video was a fan suggestion?). Hit me up with an interesting topic and there's a 1.2% chance I won't ignore you.

[@lestevegmbh2637]

Deep rock galactic. I crave more attention not for me, but for this game.

[@Raklryja]

How do you explain the continuing success of Counter-Strike? It came out 22 years years ago. The current version is over 10 years old. The graphics are modest at best. The skill cap is extremely high. The player base is.....unforgiving. Despite all that, in 2021 it was the most played game on Steam by hourly average number of players. What is the secret sauce?

[@Rycluse]

@@Raklryja You look familiar... I think it's a combination of a grounded setting that's always popular, relatively simple rules despite the high skill ceiling, popular esports and streaming, a long history that's bred a very dedicated fanbase, and finally the skin economy, which I think rivals TF2's hat economy at its peak.

[@ceu160193]

@@Raklryja Counter-Strike is what happens, when you manage to find perfect recipe for game - everything necessary and nothing unnecessary.

[@yuvalgabay1023]

@@lestevegmbh2637 it's a good game. The end.

[@huitzilo7567]

And I love being a healer. The medic in TF2 is the best example, he has many different ways to play, a medium with invincibility, absolute overhead, critical hits, or huge damage resistance. You can swap these out whenever you the situation calls for it. Also the he offense weapons that can heal you or your teams. *cough cough.. crossbow!

[@bbittercoffee]

You say he has many different ways to play but crusader's crossbow+vaccinator+ubersaw are the best for each slot, especially ubersaw which has been the best melee medic weapon ever since it was introduced WAAAAAY back. Crossbow is super good, but there some niche situations where something else would've been better (I'm talking about that gun that increases your speed based on your charge meter). Vaccinator is the most recent change, a little more mechanic, a damage resistence instead of immunity for 4 times the charge (and basically 300% charge speed for each charge since you only need 25%).

[@icicle_ai]

@@bbittercoffee the primary you're thinking of is overdose

[@bbittercoffee]

@@icicle_ai yeeeeah! That one!

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

@Arthur Brown Yeah, Kritzkrieg is for cancelling pushes before they happen, Quick-Fix is for less competent teams, and stock is great in general use when used offensively

[@davidcenturion961]

crossbow+default medic gun+ubersaw is the best combo by far.

[@cesar6447]

1:23 fun fact, Ying was inicially a damage champion, reworked into a healer, in her ability reveal, you can see her illusion doing dmg as well as her ult, grohk was always meant to be an offensive healer

[@PeevedLatias]

While Mercy is obviously a medic clone at the core, I don't really agree that it doesn't work. Her movement options, darting from teammate to teammate, saving them or boosting them to change the outcome of a fight is super satisfying. Of course, if you pocket the tank (you shouldn't be doing this), it'll be boring to play her... But that's such a limited way to play her. Hell, even her revive ability has a lot of nuance to it. Do you use it right away? Do you delay it for a potentially better situation to arise (higher value revive, safer revive)? Can you even afford to lock yourself into that animation for two seconds? Or will that kill your team?

[@caroisoutofline]

love this comment. if youre playing mercy as a healbot, youre playing her wrong and you are going to be useless

[@strawberrygemz2020]

I agree that you should be dmg boosting whenever that hp bar is full or at least over half. That being said I have a really hard time understanding how ppl find her gameplay "satisfying" or even stimulating (beyond flying around trying not to get hit). And I say this while she's one of my most played supports. Hell, im actually very effective with her because I have a generally good level of game sense, but its so brain numbing..

[@strawberrygemz2020]

I really wish they'd give mercy some love and give her maybe one ability that gives her something to do other than latch onto your teammates or every now and then go pew pew with her water gun 🔫

[@tokenfinnishguy8714]

You are implying that you have the luxury of choice when playing mercy. Most of the time you'll be spending running away or dying to every enemy DPS since their only priority is to target you first.

[@LeahThe3th]

My issues with this (excuse the late reply) are the fact that the game doesn't accurately convey that your role isn't just a healbot, and in fact kind of leads you to believe that's the optimal way to play her, It's a game where health is constantly going up and down, and it makes her heal seem deceptively strong versus say something like TF2 where the slower pace of the numbers really gives you a feel for how the game is progressing, damage boosting doesn't really feel like it's doing anything, you can't see it due to your only real info of how much damage someone is taking being watching the health bar roll, and you can't fix it with something like the dmg numbers in TF2, at least not to the same level, due to the games fundamentals bolting down healers to a must have as if it's an MMO. Second reason is that it lacks a mechanic like ubercharge due to needing to be slotted into the (honestly quite harmful) passive, 2 ability and charged ult character design of the game, 1.0 ult had something going but in practice the actual ability was unhealthy and irritating, the reworked one has the problem of just being straight up boring and feeling like it doesn't change much for how you approach a fight, and there being no penalty for death in terms of said ults makes it feel less like something you have to play around and work your way to use, and more something that's just an extension of your kit. I can't really offer a good fix for it, as it goes against general design philosophies of Overwatch, the ability format that all characters must fall under, and the way that characters must be very easy to pick up, and there shouldn't be much mechanical mastery required outside of positioning and accuracy. Third reason is that her two main abilities kind of promote pocketing and sticking to someone, especially with rez guiding you into the idea that you're supposed to make sure your one core person stays alive at all costs. Overwatch tries too hard to be a MOBA when it needs to try and stick to the roots of a shooter, shoehorning in consistent teamfighting and heals per second in a way that doesn't make a healer just a strong part of your team, but instead a straight up necessity, and then that causes there to be less overhead strategy. If they didn't go for the idea of having numerous heroes with entirely different kits but under the same format, but instead a smaller set of finer crafted characters (With moderate customization) and by proxy mechanics, there'd be a lot more staying power, as the game we've come to know has instead been tangled in an identity crisis, and a balancing spaghetti that only gets worse every time they make a new meta defining character, or someone to answer a problem with the meta. It doesn't help that the mechanical skill growth in the game feels nonexistent, Nothing feels worse than when modern games replace movement and movement mechanics like general Scout movement and things like damage surfing on Medic with movement abilities that do the hard work for you, like Tracer's blink and Mercy's Guardian Angel, it just strips the genre to the bone.

[@funa2865]

Mercy's damage amp is actually what she should mostly be doing. None of the healers in OW are supposed to 'focus' on healing.

[@maestro7534]

You could make a complete list for what others things Support should do: Ana disrupts healing and disables dangerous targets. Baptiste assists with pushing or choke holding with immortality and damage boosting. Brigitte protects the backline with her shield and knockback attacks. Kiriko shuts down pushes with brief invulnerability and provides everyone with the power to aggressively push. Lúcio uses his speed to get everyone to the objective, to disrupt and flank, as well as using his knockback to protect others, or outright kill the enemy at an edge. Mercy provides a damage boost, with greater range and effect with her Ultimate, and brings teammates back to keep holding. Moira pressures the enemy by using a volatile damage orb, or chasing them down with her self healing and Fade. Zenyatta chips away health with his orbs and pressures people to seek safety with his Discord orb. If you play Support only to heal, remember they are not called Healers for a reason.

[@Forest_Pilot]

Literally😭, they’re called supports not healers

[@wheeliethebin]

overwatch players when the challenge is to not say "um ackchually they're supports not healers"

[@Forest_Pilot]

@@wheeliethebin It’s because they’re not just healers💀, they use their abilities to SUPPORT their team not just to heal them

[@ahlanlufi6217]

In silver you'll get flamed for not healing enough

[@SkllSession]

I think the hardest part of making a good healer is making it dangerous yet essential to play. Medic is inherently more fun than mercy, because medic isn't just satisfying, but also the fact he needs to be just as far into a firefight as the person he's healing. Mercy, being a highly mobile class is not nearly as fun, since she's rarely ever in immediate danger unless they're playing classes around her pick. It's why flexible supports are generally way more fun to play than true supports. I'd say one of the best examples of a good healer that fits your description is Sunflower from Garden Warfare. Satisfying to heal with and a lot of games need a sunflower to effectively work well together and win multiple firefights. At the same time, sunflower is capable of using offensive capabilities like the sun beam, the primary weapon she has is decently effective for suppression, and she is almost always in danger. Then again, I think Garden Warfare had at least some inspiration from the Team Fortress aesthetic.

[@BebxOfficial]

I do like overwatch 2s healers though because it really does feel like you're helping your team win the race to get their ults. That's satisfying. And also why ow2 healers aren't healers, they're supports. Boost damage, help them get their ults better than the enemy, and like, idk, run fast. It's fun.

[@skylerfreeman1173]

People just like to hate overwatch cause it's cool thing to do. He literally said in the video "just shooting beams into allies or not being able to shoot is boring!" While he shows clips of Medic just beaming allies.. and praises it to all hell.

[@AstinCrow]

Yeah while I do agree, Overwatch is not the Hallmark of game design, I cannot ignore the fact that the game does have extreme amounts of complexity to it and that supports in Overwatch do actually have a lot of nuance to them. Everyone just expects supports to be day Mercy from OW1 who do nothing but heal. Even Mercy nowadays gets primary benefit from her crazy mobility and damage boost, not her piss stream. She also rarely is a pocket healer, only tethering to Echo or Pharah since you kind of need to so they stay alive and so you can reach them.

[@rhyshin5662]

Often times, support utility is more valuable than healing. A single anti nade can win fights, and a well placed immortality field or protection suzu can nullify enemy ults. That's how I feel impactful. Healing is important, but being a support is more than healing. That may be why only mercy was discussed here as the closest to a heal-only support. But it's disingenuous to how Overwatch is played to limit "support" to just "heal". Also like Skyler Freeman said, the Medic also just beams allies and it's somehow better than Mercy...

[@LukiKruki]

@@rhyshin5662 F@ck. I kill one-hit enemies with my anti when I see them. Or sleep f@ckers needed to be eliminated or constant stopped. It's so fun.

[@kuaithe]

I love make a big impact by securing headshot kills as kiriko and getting 3 or more anti nades most time it wins the team fight

[@cheesycurdis1910]

That moment when the tf2 character design is so good I instantly knew that was a medic.

[@kRx1203]

5:10 I love this description. It's not only accurate, but also hilarious.

[@alexmark6580]

Mal'damba is one of the best healer experiences I've had with my friends.

[@bcmly]

a point that wasn't touched on in the video was that in paladins most supports have several ways to heal teammates, which i find contributes to paladins supports feeling great to play

[@captainhuntank7963]

honestly when i used to play paladins, mal'damba was my favorite simply because pretty much all his moves can damage people somehow, his reload can stun people, his jar is basically acid to enemies, his snake shoots healing lasers, and his ult is basically "get outta my way"

[@cesar6447]

​@@bcmlyand how healers aren't reduce to healing, like mercy, she's only a healer and a hyper nerfed Rez and DMG boost, in paladins healers are not punished for healing, and when they are, like serís whose locked until the healing ends, her healing is massive and fast, so you don't miss a second without attacking

[@bcmly]

@@cesar6447 agree. and yet, seris could be considered one of the more 'healbotty' champs, thats how present support util is in paladins. oh and btw im quite sure u can cancel the heal partway through by right clicking again. tho channeling the full heal takes only like a second it is quite useful in crucial moments

[@dungeaterfancam]

@@bcmlyin fairness Seris isn’t really a healbot anymore. Her stun becoming basekit really changed her playstyle up, now she can really do massive CC inbetween heals and it greatly synergizes with her ult. Life Exchange Ying, Corvus, Io, Grover, Luminary Jenos and Cursed Accord Lillith are probably the bigger healbots currently with the last three still being engaging to play and totally meta.

[@west-art558]

playing support is like giving yourself a heart attack once your team mate is low and dies when you were about to heal them feels pa in ful

[@thegoldenphoenix3710]

It pains me greatly man

[@LukiKruki]

It's like teleporting as Kiriko to low health teammate who then dies.

[@RottenCopper]

Hearing you mention playing mercy and being tethered to the tank all game hurt my soul. Why are you beaming the tank?

[@L1nkk9E]

That slow build up of the music at 5:50 to the Medic cinematic was great! I love it!

[@celtoucan4956]

One of my favorite healers done in games are medics in foxhole. They can be incredibly powerful in 1. Making everyone around you happy as respawn timers take a long time, 2. Keeping logistical strain (a main point of the game) low, as 10 lives cost the same amount of resources as 50 revives take. And if someone is bleeding a medic can stop it with 1/10th of a bandage, vs 1 whole bandage normally

[@PhoenixStriker1]

What I love most about the conversation is that what you’ve laid out is part of what makes being an engineer so satisfying from a support perspective. It’s easy to focus on the turret, but a well placed teleported keeps the team at the front, and dispensers help keep them alive and supplied while they’re near it, offensively and defensively. Medic and engineer are two sides of the healing coin (mobile vs static), and neither would’ve been nearly as fun to play if TF2 wasn’t designed so well for their core gameplay from the ground up.

[@giahuynguyenkim6389]

Spy should also be counted in the equation, as he is very essential to coordinate pushes through removing advantages that enemy teams may have i.e backstabbing medics to remove Ubercharge advantage, backstab snipers to remove sightline advantage, sapping sentry nest to start shit up, making the Engineers panic or instilling dear amongst the power class (especially Heavies) via occasional assassination. In fact, every class in TF2 is accounted to have a contribution in their own way.

[@mateusmachadomartinsjunior4309]

TF2 is fucking great game and I hate that so little people play it in my region

[@-Raylight]

After 9 years of development, I think Valve has achieved almost perfection. Can't imagine what will happen if they keep supporting TF2

[@durgun8247]

I don't play medic often but my most memorable match of TF2 is one where I was playing medic. it was on badwaters second point on defense, our engineers had already set up on the roof area. I realized that the buildings were keeping the team together, the dispensers AOE healing was doing wonders because of how clumped up everyone was, so I decided that the engineers took #1 priority for healing. We won the game from the same defensive position even after the second point was captured.

[@magical571]

i love when a medic doesn't ignore the engis lol, good engies are scary and they can make a choke imposible to go through with a little bit of support

[@neintimesthegeek1337]

Maldamba in Paladins is the best we got of a healer. His Skills are more focused on support than anything, has the teamwork concept in mind, and it actually feels good to play as and heal with.

[@Anisse_N_Spices]

I personally enjoy Seris more, but that may be because I keep using a build build that lets her self-heal all the time and stun enemies every 3 seconds because of the rend soul abilty. I don't heal them, I just make sure they don't get damaged instead

[@davthatguy3052]

@@Anisse_N_Spices I think they nerfed her self heal because it was a lil broken

[@davthatguy3052]

maldamba both meta and fun to play with and against

[@gremoryblues7566]

@@davthatguy3052 Even after the nerf I find it more interesting than Maldamba to be honest. She got a healing satisfying to use, an escape ability when problems arise and a stun that helps kill ennemies. Maldamba have also those options but it's gameplay is really not for me.

[@davthatguy3052]

@@gremoryblues7566 series is more on the lower skill ceiling side of healers she's a solid pick for team comps that have 2 point tanks or a damage champ that will stick close to the tank because of the heal spread. damba has better burst heal and survivability since his movement has a low cooldown he takes a bit of practice but is good super fun to play

[@oracidrep]

Trinity isn't a fun healer because she isn't a healer, she's a tank in who can walk away from having a planet dropped on her who also happens to heal anyone nearby 🤠

[@stinkybean5]

Trinity is a tank wearing a doctor coat.

[@grypinh]

Her 2 does percentile damage, and her 3 can be augmented to destroy enemy armor. Pump that bish full a strength and watch her triage enemies into oblivion.

[@TheTdw2000]

That's literally every frame thanks to powercreep like shield gating, brief respite, operator mode, and energy restores.

[@frank8917]

Also, i think she is nessesary to do Eidolon Hubts Alongside Volt, Chroma and, maybe, Harrow

[@ungeneric63]

Yes the lobster is very strong

[@SGT_Squid_Dog]

Crusader's Crossbow is the Red Pill or Blue Pill decision for my brain. "I could try to heal my teammates with this risky shot, but that scout is definitely going to flank one of these corners, my team won't react fast enough to protect me. However, if I take my beam off any of my teammates, that demoman or soldier could blow us all to pieces. maybe I should just-" the ubercharged phlog pyro:

[@Ouryuu-Zenokun]

Nice video, and I do agree a lot except for the Mercy point. The damage boost is what you mainly do (although theres still a lot of healing aswell) so i wouldn't say she doesnt bring anything into the team other than heals. Rez and damageboost is why you pick her. But i completely agree about the other parts

[@anon9359]

That along with her mobility.

[@AquaMusica305]

Ya and you don’t really heal tank especially if you got like bap ana Moira who can main heal the tank while you pocket a dps. Kinda makes fixed comps like how lucio and mercy is the worst duo I usto believe mercy was a main heals but even tho she can put out good numbers it’s really the damage boosting that is her core component to amplify a team member than just heal bot

[@Grace-ie1fk]

this. if youre spending the whole game healing the tank, you arent playing mercy correctly. i haven’t played tf2, but from the description in this video, medic honestly sounds incredibly similar to mercy. so im surprised there’s a lot of disdain for mercy in this video alongside so much praise for medic.

[@blastedpotato5133]

@@Grace-ie1fkliterally that’s how play mercy and I’ve played medic in tf2 as well and they are kinda the same

[@ThatBeePerson]

As somebody who plays Harrow, *Harrow is really fucking scary actually* Harrow is a single target elimination frame who just so happens to make his teammates more effective the more effective he is. I love this. I contribute to the team 2 times, once by deleting some poor soul with a red crit to the face and again as I restore our nuker to max energy instantly. I quite enjoy Trinity as well, the constant race that both of them have to undertake to reach enemies before their team can, for the good of the team, means that they end up tending to be at the front of the pack as opposed to the back, and both can ironically solo incredibly well because of this design. Is it for everyone? Nah. But in a coordinated group that realizes how harrow and trinity work? Even an underleveled squad can breeze through steel path.

[@TheManWhoErasedHisNane]

And from what I’ve seen wisp is amazing for holding out on survival missions for the constant buffs

[@TheManWhoErasedHisNane]

Warframe healers aren’t exactly just supposed to be healers they are more like a support meaning they give the team buffs rather than just focusing on health only.

[@ThatBeePerson]

@@TheManWhoErasedHisNane exactly, yeah they kind of fail at being "healers" but a pure healer would be awful and boring in warframe, so they give buffs, trinity can give damage reduction, damage, healing, energy, and is the only frame who can consistently heal stationary objectives such as cryopods, harrow gives absolutely insane crits, some healing, tons of energy, ect. and wisp gives speed, health, and a radial stun around you

[@sonicstarfighter]

@@ThatBeePerson also with nuking frames being so relevant harrow doesn't get the chance to much anyway. his play rate is low for a reason

[@ThatBeePerson]

@@sonicstarfighter Harrow directly feeds nukers, yes, he won't get constant use, but it only takes 1 headshot to restore 400+ energy at once, and he is scary in a group which actually knows what it's doing

[@mmmapplesauce1673]

You forgot the whole crossbow “minigame” you constantly do while playing medic. It makes the “healer” class feel more involved, since you are actually doing an “action” every now an then (which takes a lot of skill). That is what keeps me coming back to medic in tf2.

[@toxic_icecream]

In Overwatch they are specifically called supports, because they are not healers. Even on Mercy if you heal 100% of the time you are doing it wrong and less effective

[@DemiCape]

Yeah mercy is supposed to damage boost or bring out an unexpected pistol and pick off the backline if needed aswell.

[@DemiCape]

Healing is one of her kit, but there has been many 2 or 3 man kills because of that one mercy the enemy team didn’t expect that just go battle mode. Onviously her main thing is the healing, but it is not the only thing you can bring to the table with her.

[@Bro1212_]

Exactly, supports that just heal bot instead of trying to dps and use cooldowns effectively are throwing.

[@fishstickfailur3]

while slightly obscure, i think Scientist from GW2 is a nice alternative to a healer they're a mixture of a glass cannon and a healer, both being a devastating force and a savior to his teammates his alternative abilities and variants mix up the fun, too

[@DankaDoctor185]

Tf2 medic and Paladins mal'damba are the most fun I've had with healers. They're both extremely satisfying, and while both CAN be used in a very offensive way, they're made to be as satisfying as possible to heal with. I'm a bit disappointed that Damba wasn't mentioned considering he's one of THE most notorious healer characters in Paladins.

[@thrasher1462]

pip with healing shots is probably the most fun ive had in paladins, way more fun than playing him normally - or playing any of the other healers as well

[@SpectraParadox]

What I absolutely love is that Medic is a healer class that you can absolutely change into something else. Run Overdose and Quick-Fix and you have the "oh shit my man died time to run" or "scout medic" loadout. It's way too fun to go full speed into the enemy team and just sting them like a bee and run away. Class-based games imo are only fun with customization and changable weapons.

[@Gravity_304]

try paladins if you haven't already

[@Septic24]

thanks for showing everyone how fun it can be to play as Medic in Tf2. I have over 800 hours and I came to conclusion that everyone wants a Medic on their team but few players are willing to play Medic

[@magical571]

to be fair, i think part of that is that the moment you are the lonely medic, everyone wants you, every one gets entitled about being the pocket, everyone is injured and crying medic, and some people will vote kick you if you dare equip anything that isn't the stock medigun, the ubersaw and the crossbow. and you are usually left to your own devices unless you have a loyal heavy giving you a sandvich in sign of appreciation and care for your wellbeing lol. Last week i had a healer in my team called "medics need heals too", i think that says it all lol. scout at 124 taking the big health pack while you are burning at 17hp? enjoy your respawn timer while you meditate on life choices (but yes, medic, despite all that, is a LOT of fun to play. it's just that it can be both pretty demanding and frustrating, or extremely power trippy and fun depending on your teammates)

[@rreplacement7402]

I love the Overwatch healers, they have a nice blend of DPS and Healing, which are the exact kind thing I like in a healer, Paladins as well Edit: What that AstinCrow guy said

[@AstinCrow]

*Supports. Make sure to refer to them as supports since calling them healers is what is currently causing issues for support players right now, as they are being judged solely off their healing ability rather than anything else.

[@ObviouslyDeven]

Well, except for mercy. While I really like the overwatch gameplay, other supports have just more skill built into them. Sure, avoiding DPS through positioning and movement is crucial for mercy. But it is also crucial for the other supports. Especially now in ow2 with only 1 tank, if both supports die, then your tank will eventually die as well. The problem is, healing and damage boosting is not interactive, your dash/flying isn't interactive except if you have pharah or echo and then you fully depend on them, and your rez isn't interactive. And the only thing that is interactive, her ultimate, is just lackluster and has a low skill floor. The whole character is designed to turn your brain off. That's why mercy is unpopular. And even tho League is a trash game, the supports are actually done right. Because Soraka Ult can save multiple teammates but her strong suit is hitting her abilities consistently which bring a lot of value to fights. Sona has healing AND CC which needs good timing. Taric is tanky, has heal and CC and can even make your teammates invulnerable. Generally, almost every healer in League also has offensive capabilities alongside his supporting ones. (similar to debuffs in paladins). It's comparable to ana who can initate and therefore even win fights if her flask, her sleep dart or her ultimate is used correctly. Doesn't matter if it's your tank, DPS or even the other healer, everyone loves a good ana. On the other hand you have mercy who is unable to initiate fights or decide the outcome of the fight on her own. Instead of playing a character that is supposed to help your teammates win through giving them additional strength, keeping them alive, making enemies weaker or even being able to pick enemies on your own(looking at you moira, zen and kiriko), mercy feels more like babysitting your team until you're the last one alive and then trying to make a run for it so you can regroup with your team. While it's a MOBA-Shooter or Team-Shooter, the whole "shooter" aspect is completely removed while playing mercy. Rework her revive into a skillshot she has to throw to the dead teammate to revive him (so she doesn't have to stop doing what the support is supposed to do), maybe with a holy light slowly descending on the rez'd teammate, and change her ultimate to 10 seconds of flying and her pistol dealing 2 seconds of antiheal to the enemy hit and mercy would be a staple alongside ana AND actually fun to play. She'd be able to engage and start fights with her ult [the same thing EVERY OTHER SUPPORT IN THE GAME (except for Zen, but Zen is interactive enough) CAN DO], needs skill to hit her rez while she doesn't need to be in danger anymore but you'd still be able to do most things mercy can do right now.

[@ChuloInYourCulo]

Except mercy. She's probably the best pure healer, but she's the only one who can't attack and heal simultaneously

[@MAlru005]

Comparing OW supports to paladins supports is disrespectful to paladins

[@Kekkai_]

​@@ObviouslyDeven You are just wrong about mercy. You can't "turn your brain off" and do well with her against any competent team. You need to constantly make important decisions about positioning (ie. constantly flying with actual movement tech), when/who to rez, who to dmg boost, who to heal and when it's actually better to just start shooting. You sound like you just play against bad players if you think this is easy to do. She has a low skill floor but also a high skill ceiling. Dash/flying isn't interactive?? You literally have to interact with your team to even initiate any movement tech. Is lucio's ability to skate on walls not "interactive"? Mercy and lucio have more options when it comes to positioning and movement meaning more decisions to make when trying to position well and help their team so equating their positioning to other supports literally makes no sense. The only way you can come away with your opinion of Mercy is if you watch silver players fumble around and unironically think that's the full potential of the character. Just watch a Master or GM mercy with the idea that the character "is designed to turn your brain off" lmao

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

"You can't add something curical in patch 1.4.3" *Crusaders Crossbow*

[@pixavier9746]

The crossbow is a great and incredibly fun weapon, but it´s not crucial to Medic gameplay. I know for a lot of players it is as it's the only Medic's weapon that can do some reliable damage, but that's the thing, it's crucial for those that don't like to play healers that much, for those who like to play them is STILL an excellent and fun weapon, just not "crucial" to the class base design.

[@Cheesypotato57]

You articulated something about Warframe I've known to be true deep down for a long time. The game might have been initially designed with a class-based mindset what with the early frames embodying archetypes like healer, engineer, and spy, but the game kept power creeping itself into a corner and rendering so many frames obsolete simply because they aren't built for the high-level onslaughts that the increased enemy levels demand. It's been years since I've seen a Loki in the wild. I was playing Ivara today and her Swiss army knife of a kit doesn't make engaging with Steel Path enemies fun, it meant I had to spend the whole time invisible to avoid them. She's built for a game where avoiding enemies is rewarding, and Warframe is mostly not that. And yet in spite of that powercreeping habit the devs can't let you use all those toys where it counts; boss fights and strong enemies have to be immune to your powers and not take full damage from your attacks otherwise you'd cheese them with the Rube Goldberg machine of stacking damage multipliers that the game has been developing over the years, leaving me to ask what the game wants me to do if not play by the rules it wrote. I've been maining Khora ever since I got her because she's well-rounded enough to make it in most game modes but she can handily dish out damage to entire crowds, and that's almost all I need.

[@Lilliathi]

Wittiest use of titles award 2022.

[@ethanator8265]

They way you describe support in Overwatch, especially mercy, makes it seem like you just don’t understand the game

[@RunehearthCL]

Literally, the game has more than one healer and just focuses in the most boring of them

[@ethanator8265]

@@RunehearthCL well it’s not really that. He uses mercy because she is the only full support. However the way he describes her and her playstyle is just not in line with how she actually is. He makes her seem like a really boring and mindless character which she can be in certain circumstances, isn’t always the case, especially in high level play. He boils her playstyle down to just looking at the tank and holding heal to win and that’s all you can do and you still lose. It’s not true though and it just shows that he just sucks at mercy; it’s basically spelling out his poor playstyle and blaming the game. He hardly mentions damage boost and I don’t think he even mentions resurrection, when those two are arguably more important than heal. Any support can heal but only mercy can do everything else.

[@alexanderraz.]

he has an obvious bias towards tf2 and it really shows he didnt really play OW more to really understand how the support role works

[@jackbob83]

Tf2 was so built around medic, that it’s entire art style was built around him

[@alpegupercival]

I love playing support because healing is cool, the act of healing makes other players able to play more and die less, and that's what everyone wants, so I am the one that likes to help others.

[@negative1up]

Only just started the video, but I enjoy how the Medic's silhouetted in the thumbnail as if his profile isn't one of the most well known in gaming culture.

[@jonnaas]

You literally cannot hide tf2 medic from me bro i am so down bad i read his sillhouette instantly

[@tacnayn-x]

Why down bad?

[@jonnaas]

@@tacnayn-x medic is the pinnacle of masculinity

[@tacnayn-x]

@@jonnaas makes sense now

[@weedman20]

124 HP Scout: MEDIC! DOC CMON MAN! DOC! MEDIC! DOC! DOC! DOC CMON MAN! MEDIC! MEDIC! DOC! MEDIC!

[@MangoLassie142]

Personally I find Mercy to be a direct evolution of TF2 Medic. She has the same basic kit as him, but can also swap between healing and damage boosting, and has really fun mobility which Medic completely lacks.

[@Lickwit]

I personally enjoy medic more. Apart from the fact that medic feels a lot less vulnerable and defenseless compared to mercy (partly because of his insane crit potential lol), he also has the entire overheal mechanic to work with. Juggling between multiple teammates to give them and maintain their 150% hp is super powerful and satisfying. A scout with 185 hp is a lot scarier than one with just 125 for example. And that's not even mentioning the multiple varied ubercharges you can pick from to specialise yourself into your preferred role. Seeing the killfeed light up and their team getting wiped because of a well timed kritz pop is wonderful

[@keltonschleyer6367]

Mercy’s mobility is certainly nice, and having damage boost instead of overheal is a creative trade-off. Their timing is completely different though, as Mercy has resurrection while Medic has to invuln while everyone is still alive.

[@gracecalis5421]

@@Lickwit Honestly, in spirit, the overheal effect is already in Mercy. All the overheal really does is incentivize you to juggle around your team and keep them topped up. With all the chip damage in OW and how much more aggressively paced it is, Mercy has to jump around and juggle between 4 members already anyway. Something that really makes Mercy inticing though is the decision making having an extra layer. With Medic, it really just comes down to who you want the healing beam to be on. With Mercy, it is that PLUS also when to switch between healing and damage boost. Trying to optimize juggling between teammates AND juggling between the two modes requires a sense of synergy and gamesense that you really can't find in the Medic. With her propensity to rarely ever deal damage directly herself, Mercy is pretty much the most pure and distilled healer in the market.

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

While Medic has a lot less tools for mobility, he has much more interesting intricacies in how to escape fights, mainly by surfing rockets. Also, you need to know what Uber to use for what situation. If there is a W+M2 Pyro or your team is incompetent, you use Quick-Fix, if you're on Defense on a very open Payload Map, you run Kritzkrieg, if there is a lot of one type of damage dealer on the other team, you run Vaccinator, and for everything else, you run stock

[@squidopedia_]

Mercy doesn’t have a bonesaw sadly

[@DankSlayer_Ornstien]

Healers in other games, get killed because they're annoying. Medics in tf2, get targeted because they're dangerous and essential.

[@MPFozz1234]

The Scientist from Plants vs Zombies Battle for Neighborville (Not Garden Warfare) is a good healer in my opinion, it just feels so good to constantly heal your whole team while using their teleports to avoid the plants that use flanks or shoot at you from afar in an attempt to kill you

[@kuaithe]

the steam fire upgrade made him extra fun kinda sad they stopped updating the game only after a year

[@Tanekoshima]

"You can't introduce something fundamental in patch 1.4.3" Damn this goes hard

[@crawlinggoose]

I love how Medic TF2 is loved because he keeps the team safe and alive, while Combat Medic TFC is loved because he's already killed a third of the enemy team by the time everyone else leaves spawn.

[@chvuvh8965]

My fav part about the medic is the reap what you sow function, the satisfying feel of keeping your team healthy with the rising health bar and be rewarded for that with a faster Uber charge build drives me to keep healing low health targets, and with the reward of that Uber charge after getting it full is what meals it so fun for me

[@highmedic2351]

I am very surprised that the Crusader’s Crossbow was never shown or mentioned.

[@DrHundTF2]

Probably because it’s not essential to medic. You think so? Why? Because someone told you so? I don’t need no stinking dart gun to win, topscore, get 20 kills, 19000 healing points, 480 support points and 6 deaths. Yes, based on a true story. Now, babies, what where you saying?

[@gregoirebasseville4797]

@@DrHundTF2 I don't mean to say you can't play without it, but if it has like a 95% equip rate there's a reason... And more to the point of the video, it's a big reason medic is so rewarding and involved to play. Without it and the vaccinator, you are even more passive than a Mercy. With it, every other second of heal could be done better with gameplay than by waiting. It incentivises action, aiming, attention, précision, long-range and agression. It triples the skill ceiling of the class. Which was roughly the post of the video. So yes, I was also thinking it should have been mentioned, like the Ubersaw. The YTber mentioned "not making the gameplay stale" with "ways to vary gameplay" or something, yet didn't even mention unlockables.

[@gregoirebasseville4797]

@@DrHundTF2 That said, what's your problem? Who hurt you? The crossbow? Why do you love to hate medic's best weapon so much?

[@OptimalLeisure]

@@DrHundTF2 You really came out of the gate swinging, huh?

[@highmedic2351]

@@DrHundTF2 Bro, whatever you’re smoking, I don’t want it.

[@empdisaster10]

I have to say, I love the the editing of having medics theme play in the beginning and right when it switches to the March part cutting off the music until you get to him. It’s subtle but as a music nerd I quite enjoy it

[@pyrrhos8175]

Actually had this discussion last night discussing how many devs seem to miss the mark with healers/supportive playstyles by trying to buff playrate via making the class easier. MMOs like FF14 and WoW as well as Monster Hunter's Sword & Shield then particularly Rise's Hunting Horn being the main examples. I personally love when healers or supports are rewarded for aggression, but examples like you mentioned of Brigitte can quickly spill into more powercreep than good design. It's a very fine balance and I really hope we see a group that really sells how to make support both fun and engaging.

[@icicle_ai]

"I personally love when healers are rewarded for their agression" By chance, do you main Sage?

[@pyrrhos8175]

@@icicle_ai I haven't given Healers a full run in my 14 journey yet (still on freetrial PostHW on tank), but of the kits Sage and Astro appeal to me the most. The friend is an endgame raider for Dancer/Healers so was curious on her standpoint

[@luckybastrd618]

What I love about playing discipline priest in world of Warcraft is that it takes an incredible amount of skill and game knowledge to pull off correctly (I can see why most of the healers are considered easy though). However, it doesn't quite fit into the "aggression" role. Even though their healing output is based on damage output, it requires you to be incredibly patient and rely on properly timed powerful abilities. I hate playing healers in overwatch, where it feels like I can't even contribute to my teams damage output. But in comparison, Paladins' healers are very flexible and can easily be turned into damage champions with proper playstyles, they just have to trade out some of their healing first.

[@darthplagueis13]

Sword and Shield is not a support class tho. It's a utility combat class that can be used to support your teammates if you fancy that playstyle.

[@pyrrhos8175]

@@darthplagueis13 No weapon in MH is truly "support." Every weapon is both self sufficient and has use in a team setting, especially in say GenU with Alchemy. However HH, SnS, and the Bowguns (if they would ever spec for it) have the most supportive qualities and in the rare instance were it is needed ie World's Extreme Behemoth, it played a supportive role. Being able to chug potions, powders, and food buffs for your team without taking a major time sink from your damage itself is supportive.

[@Flour-4]

5:15 Hey now, as a scout main... Yes

[@YaBoiRattler]

Playing as a medic in any game is fun because you get to choose who lives and dies. Teammate call you a bitch before the game starts for no reason? He’s dead. Other teammate thanks you for your healing and is just generally a nice person? He’s getting extra heals.

[@stormillion5002]

Don't forget how amazing the crossbow is. Risking not healing your closest ally for a secomd to get that long distance scout-saving snipe.

[@kujira2065]

So basically Ana from overwatch

[@tuckerensmenger8001]

@@kujira2065 but better

[@kujira2065]

@@tuckerensmenger8001 eh. I like both and I play both

[@tuckerensmenger8001]

@@kujira2065 same

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

@@kujira2065 In a sense, yeah, though the crossbow is much more liable to miss at long ranges since the projectile has to travel

[@TheSpookster]

Finally someone who compares Paladins, Overwatch and tf2 in a fair way. It's refreshing to see this actually being done seriously

[@Arukorstza]

"You only live because I allow it!" - A Healer somewhere, probably.

[@kpmh2001]

Happy to have you back man, I appreciate your well thought-out views on things.

[@fenchellforelle]

i assume you are likely more of a TF2 player than an Overwatch player, but complaining that Mercy is a boring example of a healer, with gameplay in the background of the player not using any of the awesome movement that makes mercy so damn fun, then praising TF2 for having a objectively less interesting healer for a list of things that Mercy achieves just as well is ... an interesting decision Both have a lock on healing beam. the idle sound of the medi gun is awesome, but the healing chime that gets lighter the more health your target has is also very satisfying. The point about keeping your team alive from a surprise ambush applies to both characters since ... well their main healing method is the same. Mercy has her damage boost, which shares any hitmarkers your boosted target gets so you have some good feedback if what you are doing is helpfull. Medic has his Ubercharge, which, when active, is a really fun ability, but since it builds by being tethered to a teammate even when they are at full health, it incentivizes the very problem you complain about with Mercy. You also stated that the most fun moments with medic is in pubs when there are people all over the place and you have to balance keeping all the idiots alive, well, thats no different in overwatch, only unlike the medic, mercy actually has fun engaging tools to do so. Totally agree on trinity though. one of the most versatile, strongest frames (>90% damage reduction, infinite energy, full heal +Stacking Damage reduction for your entire team) in the game for years yet nobody plays her because frankly her abilities just kinda do their thing without much further input from you. I guess all im trying to say is: I agree, the medic in TF2, just like all the other classes honestly, is really fun, but bringing up a class from a game you dont know how to play, that matches or exceeds your positive example in pretty much every way as a negative example is really not a great way to prove a point. Well done on the editing though, despite my disagreements it was a very pleasant watch.

[@Bubbagaming90000]

Seems like this video was just to shit on overwatch and say medic was better.

[@TylerTheLoser_]

I feel like the Mercy example is a fundamental misunderstanding of the way she needs to be played. She's straight up just a flying Medic lol. You should not be healbotting the tank the entire match-- in fact, a Mercy shouldn't really be touching the tank that much anyways.

[@Tub-Nub]

I don't think he even knows how to superjump/slingshot

[@nihaxwehraweeb5550]

I know it's not a hero shooter but I love the support classes in planetside 2. Being able to hold there own in combat through there own gimmicks and being essential to sustaining a push makes them so fun to play

[@emberthecatgirl8796]

You get support items and the best guns in the game, what to dislike?

[@janshmat8363]

4:45 STOP. NO. DON'T DO THAT. Having multiple medics heal the same target does not increase heal rate, but it DOES halve uber rate!

[@nitulthapar]

Mercy:ill fight for a perfect world Medic:in a perfect world i wouldnt exist

[@jollygrapefruit786]

The thing with Medic is that his Undercharges all have that savory potential to win the game with a single well used charge. In other games the healer, at best, just keeps people from dying as fast, but can never match the power of a coordinated Uber push.

[@badasscrusader]

No most overwatch support ults can shut down pushes just as efficiently as Ubers can

[@zephyrsaix8319]

@@badasscrusader yeah but in overwatch everyone has an ult so the impact it has ends up being also having a strong ability to not fall off with the rest as opposed to a special and valuable resource only the healer gets

[@Valid23452]

I love lùcio because while healing you can give speed to your team and you have a pretty good gun. It's always fun to see me, a support, getting 15 kills while keeping my team healed the entire time.

[@pendantblade6361]

I'd love to see how medics work in other games like RPGs or milshooters. I love super specific niche subject videos like this.

[@DewaKrishna_]

Being a medic in squad is both one of the most terrifying yet satisfying experiences you'll have

[@Small_child_punter]

Tf2s emphasize on readability isn’t just for the art style. It’s also for the gameplay. When you play a class, you know exactly what each action is and it’s effects. Especially as medic, you see the effects your healing is doing. This doesn’t work with more clustered less visible games like warframe and overwatch. Medic is satisfying because you see exactly what you’re providing to the entire team.

[@pieissogood11]

Medic is so fun partly with damage surfing making you feel like you have more of a choice to live when be attacked while not needing to fight back

[@epsilonfallen5830]

Not really a hero shooter, but I loved playing healers in Heroes of the Storm. There is just something incredibly cathartic about negating an enemy play at the press of a button.

[@froggod6484]

0:28 I HATE when every non overwatch player tells you to play mercy by pocketing a tank. Mercy’s utility is her damage boost, she’s only effective pocketing a good dps player, the other support heals the tank

[@j-sun3821]

Feels like this is more of a video on your love of the medic from TF2 than a commentary on healers which hey is cool. I do think a lot of your points apply to Mercy..positioning..target priority for healing, being a key role, and being the most targeted. For a hero that's clearly borrowing from the medic you don't go in depth in what makes them different or why you feel medic does it better. You mention she's a pocket which is true but she 100% has the capability for solo and primary healing and to get that rush you seem to be seeking as well.

[@caroisoutofline]

mercy's main role is pocketing/babysitting the dps unless u have 2 dps that arent good to pocket (like sombra and tracer or something) and even then in ow2 u can damage boost most if not all tanks and get pretty good value

[@deltasweetashoney8880]

Honestly from someone who hasn’t played tf2 and thus can’t clearly understand their differences and similarities this video really confuses me, I mean I would be fully on board with them not enjoying mercy’s gameplay because it’s just not for some people, but what got me was that they incorrectly represented her kit and then further praised medic for things that they said they disliked about mercy.

[@defaultdan7923]

i heavily agree. the video is great, but it ultimately is presented as though most other support characters in similar games are worse, without delving very far in to why.

[@crystallian]

@@defaultdan7923 let me explain the difference here. The example for OW used is Mercy VS Medic. Mercy has a singular kit that doesn't do things like break stalemates. It's a boring super passive pocketing kit that rewards people for negating mistakes. Whereas with Medic, due to the fundamental differences. He is 1. Absolutely core to both weapon/class design, but also map design. And 2. Has a variable kit that rewards players for mastering mechanics and knowing what to use. Positioning with Medic is vastly different from mercy. Since one has a get out of jail free button while the other has to use damage mechanics, potentially uber charge, or die if they make a mistake. Medic is a skillcheck character. Anyone can play him, but it takes a lot to be good with him. Even with the base kit. The default kit can be just as functional as any other. And his 'ults' the various ubercharges have their different uses. The default one breaks chokepoints and standoffs by rewarding a patient team that then coordinates. The kritz krieg rewards timing and proper uber building technique. The quickfix is for movement opportunities + a more balanced out method of topping EVERYONE off. The Vaccinator does what the quickfix does in a different ways. Effectively negating a damage type whilst not having the downside of either losing out on capping capability or needing to micro every teammate. Being a fair middle point between the stock and quickfix whilst also having 4 shorter ubercharges. Letting the medic be flexible. Just this alone gives increased depth and skill level to the medic. Requiring the knowledge of what and when to use things. Especially on different maps as different geometry will bias the needs of a medic one way or another. All of these options are good. And all of them are useful and viable without heavy coordination or setup. However, they reward team coordination. On top of that, being the sole proper healing class as engineer does not count, medic who is usually at 1 of in a comp setting, has a lot of responsibility. Handling the entire team instead of 1 dps pocket in a 6v6 or 5v5. The medic is the IGL and your anchor. Mercy is a pocket support that tries and fails to mirror medic.

[@defaultdan7923]

@@crystallian this is fair. i agree that medic is a more in depth and complex character than mercy. i feel like blizzard is balancing the wrong parts of her kit. the problem i have with it though is that it is a misrepresentation of their roles in the games. medic is a core, very important class in tf2. mercy is one character in a class comprised of many characters. i’d also argue that mercy requires quite a bit of game sense. contrary to popular belief, sometimes the best play is not to hard pocket dps. if the dps is just not getting picks fast enough, mercy becomes this frenetic character of flying around, looking at who needs heals, healing them, then damage boosting whoever is aggressing the most. I’d argue this mercy gameplay is much more game sense demanding and positioning heavy, since you immediately become the number one target and have to know how to use GA to not get killed. even if she doesn’t work then, there are other supports to switch to.