Where Do We Go From Here?

[@alykissas]

It's sad that people were attacking Chris in the live chat - his perspective is so incredibly valuable and he doesn't have to share. Thank you for sharing - agree with Lauren that the story about Jeff is terrifying as are some of the other stories coming about about other athletes, like Gui, who struggled on the swim. Thank you all for doing what you do and speaking up about all of this. Take care of yourselves.

[@8cl2]

Elisa Fuliano also describes a full panic attack in the water, trying to look for help and not finding it.

[@IonaJonas]

during the event I kept looking for Adler, I knew he was first going in, then he came through and I just thought he swam the wrong way. But this??

[@raedene3]

@@IonaJonas he was #1 candidate for something bad happening. I am sad it was Lazar, even though now that I learned more about open water swimming, him backstroking then freestyling was an indication of him struggling.

[@cahiroleary1629]

I’m stunned by how good this episode is. It’s superb, Hinshaws perspective is so important yet damning.

[@NickFreije]

Did anybody watch his interviews about event 1 before the games? He was glowing about it, and laughed off the idea of it being too hot. How that has not been brought up in these comments is beyond me!

[@tracybriggs3542]

I watched his interviews beforehand. He wasn’t asked about how CF are going to handle the safety aspect, like he said he is not privy to that information. He was talking about the event itself. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the event either, the issue was the safety was absolutely appalling. How is Chris to know that. The fact that such a nice person like Chris is getting attacked when he is brave enough to stand up and talk about it is really sad. The negativity towards people not at fault from the general community is really sad to see

[@cmarnold78]

Yes, Hinshaw has always been good. He nailed so many points.

[@jennyvaccaro7097]

Chris Hinshaw’s information was very helpful and thank you all for this conversation. ❤

[@shawnfoster4506]

Lol you realize he's a total hypocrite right? He was lambasting anyone who argued that the heat and water temperature were a risk to athletes, completely dismissive. Then Lazar dies and he's preaching that water temp was always going to be the top concern. He makes it up as he goes along to convince internet fools he knows what he's talking about, and sadly it works

[@jamiebrs1]

Henshaw is such a wealth of knowledge. Learned so much.

[@facelen4321]

Sean, thanks for your words! You are a good man and an excellent professional. Chris Hinshaw's testimony about Jeff is just surreal! I almost had a breakdown hearing it. I just would like to add two things about what was said during this episode: Tommy is right, yes the family has the right to know, but it is in the community and society interest to find those who are accountable. Justice has to be done in order for a tragedy like that never happen again. CFH CEO and Dave Castro ARE responsible. Period. There is no way to deny it. And if Dave has some decency and honor, he should help the authorities and step down. The other "elephant in the room" is CF's "culture". CF created a sport where the task MUST be "unknowable" if you want to find "the fittest". This is just not true. The CFG aim has become more and more, over the years, to find a way to expose weaknesses and push athletes harder and harder. The goal shifted from finding the fittest to finding the breaking point of human beings. As Pat Vellner said in a Buttery Bros "Behind the scenes" interview, they are athletes, not soldiers and when you try consistently to find a way to break athletes, well, one day you find this breaking point with a tragedy. That is what happened.

[@karolinamackiewicz514]

So true. Now it also came to my mind that so many athletes, in their interviews with Castro, said that they miss "old good CF, pain and tears" and don't want to be bothered with "taking care of their health". Didn't age well.

[@sforrest10]

So proud of Brent for his post❤

[@alecerdmann8505]

This has been coming for years. There were major red flags in 2017, which is the year that Hinshaw talks about Fikowski saving Fraser in the water. Also from 2017 and even more egregious is a story that CF itself shared on its website (look it up, KZbin seems to remove comments with links). It celebrates a masters athlete sacrificing his own workout to save his drowning friend. While that athlete does deserve praise for likely saving his friends life, all I see is CF advertising their own negligence. The athlete hears his friend struggling and asking for help and he turns around to swim back and assist. He says the first other assistance was a kayak showing up for SEVEN MINUTES LATER! It is truly despicable. I have done 20+ local triathlons as a casual athlete and any struggling swimmer has had a kayak or paddle board there to assist in under 30 seconds. While I haven’t witnessed it with my own eyes, I have been told by those involved that most, if not all, of these triathlons have a SCUBA diver in their gear and prepared to rescue a submerged swimmer within a minute or two. Lazar should still be with us and, IMO, it is 100% CrossFit’s fault and they have known and not cared for years.

[@jorgedavidfernandez9724]

Thank you for bringing Hinshaw to offer his knowledge!!

[@StephFranco55]

Chris Hinshaw’s perspective is ALWAYS so valuable.. I know this as an occasional watcher and CrossFit fan. How NO ONE thought to ask him for his expertise is unimaginable. Such a missed opportunity.

[@NickFreije]

He was on several podcasts talking about event 1 before the games. He LOVED the event and gushed over it for hours. Literally. And laughed off the idea of it being too hot. Strange to see the reversal and for nobody to mention his thoughts leading up to the games. Seems like we are playing the results?

[@julesa1180]

I could listen to hinshaw all day, man is so incredible being able to explain complex things in a way you can understand

[@JulietteNov]

Thank you guys so much for always keeping it classy.

[@chey9087]

Having that information from Adlers garmen is huge.

[@samuele.marcora]

Fikoski is right: the unknowable nature of CF competitions certainly doesn't help with safety and transparency. More standardisation may be necessary in the future

[@jgro9]

ive always thought it would make a better, more competitive games if they released workouts and kept within a certain guideline ie weights/amount of workouts. unknowable is cool and all, but i feel like its not part of the evolution of the sport.

[@alyssa9452]

Yet, so many athletes don't want to know the workouts ahead of time. So which is it? They can't have it both ways.

[@michaelbean4878]

Chris completely contradicted himself here from previous statements before the games, that the water temperature was not an issue and it was one of the safest swims he has seen at the games in years.

[@samuele.marcora]

Chris gave a lot of useful information and suggestions. Clearly Adler suffered exertional heat stroke, those cognitive symptoms are quite common. Scary

[@tracybriggs3542]

Chris is such a kind, caring person. His insight is always incredibly interesting. Thanks Chris for being open and honest to improve athlete safety

[@marlows47]

I hear you Sean. CrossFit prioritized money, competition, and spotlight over safety after repeated attempts. I'm so glad Brent posted what he did. Don will pay. Dave will pay. Unfortunately for our community, CrossFit will pay.

[@Riverbendranch217]

Great discussion. Horrifying story about Jeff. RIP Lazar.

[@camillek.2799]

Thank you Sean for understanding and expressing what the general public is feeling.

[@emilythompson23]

Thank y’all for having these conversations, I know they’re hard. But they are helping others process.

[@kdaniellemoral]

Thank yall for this. Sending love, grace and prayers 🤍

[@LeighFraiser]

You all are so professional. Thank you for good information. So much wisdom from you three. I’ve been waiting to hear from a trusted source. Thank you.

[@alwaysABadWolf]

Thanks for all you guys do in this space

[@meredithsell3530]

Thank you so much for facilitating this conversation.

[@o.d.kay633]

Chris added a lot of really good insights. Negligence through the roof! Also, Tommy, quit biting your nails bro. 😂

[@omariglesias7042]

Big hug to you all. Thank you!! Hopefully we see some great change for the better for our community.

[@autumnlee9825]

[@ianlee7786]

Thanks for this episode and insight from Chris.

[@mikehoward1738]

thanks so much for this episode, I was waiting for this teams perspective knowing it would be the best

[@rachelr3003]

This is truly alarming and sad and I have been following the development and the discussions. Thanks so much for doing this. It must be hard and I am so grateful that all of you have been so honest and real. Really grateful and thanks.

[@KatiePacyna]

This context and perspective is so helpful.

[@geriv1282]

This was incredible good!!! Thank you @Chris Hinshaw for sharing his expertise with us… it’s so valuable ❤

[@SashaCibrian]

Appreciate the 3 of you so much. Also love how passionate Sean is, you speak for so many of us.

[@lanamarcine8064]

Excellent show! Let’s hope we get answers and safety improvements across the board!

[@sasha2794]

Hey! I just wanna say something about the comment section. It has not been as toxic as people have been talking, yes there are very loud opinions but a vast majority of people have been discussing what can be done to ensure safety. Some folks were affected by watching the livestream and I saw people recommend help and books. The community has been getting a bad name lately but I read more comments about how we need to prioritize safety and wellbeing and a lot of care for athletes that choose to compete or otherwise. Folks were sad by seeing athletes looking like shells of themselves and didn't know how to help. I read a lot of comments and I wanted to say it wasn't all bad and blame.

[@tweetchris46]

It’s absolutely heartbreaking 💔 thank you Chris Hinshaw

[@Astr0tune]

Thank you for doing this.

[@dreamtheatrero]

Thanks so much to you guys and to Chris.

[@jenniferculp5642]

As a swimmer, Chris’s testimony about Jeff is so scary!!! Hot water is terrible to swim in. Listening to what Happened to Jeff is So Scary!!

[@seanm3933]

Thanks everyone. Shew boy that's some heavy stuff. Consider how many athletes are thinking "I was that close as well"

[@thomaslammey]

Just forwarded the foundation on to my affiliate owner. Thank you guys for what you do

[@cegiehd]

Medical clearance = yes! I honestly dont mind the open water swim. It's just different from the pool, but it also highlights the extreme importance of safety measures to be in place.

[@tracybriggs3542]

I agree

[@nikolajfjord535]

This was an immensely insightfull video. Thank you for making it and thank you to Chris for providing his knowledge and insight. Sean mentioned that he was angry and also that he didn't want to single out any specific person in all of this, with regards to where to place the blame. That is understandable. And as they mention several times, a lot is still unknown at this point. We all have been able to observe things from the live feed of the event that were blatantly wrong, and we do have numerous eyewitness accounts that points to serious errors and a fundamental lack of safety. So we do know that, even if we don't know everything yet. Also, in the beginning of the video, Sean mentions that he knows both Dave Castro and Don Faul and that they are both "great guys". Most of us don't know Dave personally and have never met him, but we have been able to observe his actions and statements over the years. Whenever any athlete has dared to speak up against him, they have either been publicly scolded/reprimanded or directly punished in some way. The guy cannot handle critizism in any way and that is major problem. Over the years we have also witnessed his increasingly theatrical ways of announcing workouts which has always seemed more about him and promoting himself than anything else. Furthermore, i know several people who attended some of the earliest seminars back in the day and experienced Dave first hand and they definately don't paint a picture as Dave being a nice guy. In fact quite the opposite. Dave needs to go. He is the very symbol of a Crosffit HQ that refuses to listen to anybody but themselves.

[@LeighFraiser]

Great advice, Sean. I am so thankful for CrossFit. I was in a very unhealthy state when I found it. It was a life dream to be able to go this year & see these athletes compete. I hate that this happened, my heart breaks for Lazar’s, but thank you for helping me navigate through this. Thank you

[@jimhealey5558]

Jeff had to switch strokes several times as well including backstroke. Chase mentioned it during the broadcast.

[@eliserichmond3185]

Thank you for having this conversation. We experienced the tragic loss of a young man at the CrossFit I coached at, if we had an AED it could’ve been prevented. If you don’t have one in your gym (or any workplace for that matter) get one today, it could save a life.

[@trishhigginson9888]

I had such a bad feeling when Dave Castro was brought back into the programming, I’ve always felt his military style approach was unsafe and reckless in many ways

[@jenniferjohnston7313]

thank you for your candor here. We appreciate you and send you all love as you process the loss of Lazar. I hope people actually take to heart what you have said here about the importance of being supportive in the community.

[@Cutesie-bootsie-cottonkandy]

Thank you Chris.

[@facethefurniss]

This was a great conversation. Thank you for including Chris Hinshaw and his experience and knowledge. It would be great if athletes had more opportunities to compete over the season. It might make a difference if there isn’t just one competition that determines “the fittest”.

[@mistameanor1]

Hey y’all. Thanks for this conversation. I just want to say that I’m very sorry this is happening. I hope all of us are able to find a way to work through whatever we are feeling in a way that serves us each as individuals.

[@dangall81]

They had a one to one athlete to judge ratio for stepping over a box the fact that the water turns into 80 athletes and 6 paddle boarders is mind blowing

[@joannawilko]

Thank you all for shedding light on the events that happened, as viewers watching this we were unaware of what was happening in the water and the heat that affected the athletes.What happened to Jeff in the water is alarming and sadly the loss of Lazar. We as members of the CrossFit community stand behind the athletes, please let us all know what we all can do to support the future of this sport.

[@EnoughRhetoric]

I think the Games needs to structure things more concretely. Set movements and set types of workouts, which gives a ton a variable opportunity but allows for safer events and more consistent testing. Some variables for the unknown component but enough of this pushing athletes to the edge via surprise versus testing them of the core tenants. Its either a game show or a sport. I vote for sport. Let’s let athletes know how to train and also event holders know how to safely implement these tests. All that said, as an ICU nurse and a human being, I’m very familiar with the stages of grief. They are not set in stone for time or order. It doesn’t help that social media lets people unload instantly because we’re all colliding into one another in a different stage. So I hope with time at least, we can settle into a true state of healing.

[@RodgerDodger14]

Why doesn’t Hinshaw come out and say he was wrong? He scoffed at the idea that the water was too hot or that should have been any sort of worry on the Sevan Podcast

[@ironicallyfit518]

I'm subscribed because I trust you guys to tastefully and tactfully approach this, and there are many who don't.

[@neile66]

Not an attack at all, but I just saw the video with Chris and Sevan where Chris seemed to brush off the water temp being a big deal, then in this interview he said it was a massive deal. I’m wondering why none of you asked him about that. Did you not see that interview yet? Could you please watch that and maybe have Chris back on to address? I never watch Sevan’s stuff but I wanted to see this one in particular.

[@FetchCB]

This has been the best discussion on this event. So balanced in thought yet so obviously emotional. Chris Hinshaws perspective has changed my thoughts. It is clear to me now that Crossfit may not have understood the risk.

[@kairandbellinger1973]

Sean you right, its not the open water, its the culture of lack of professional safty systems

[@lizgomes6654]

Thanks for sharing your observations Chris. RIP Lazar.

[@leshlycook5068]

I watched the event live, and when Jeff came in, he didn’t look well… he may have crawled to the line… Chris insight is so valuable here.. thank you… I hope you guys are ok..

[@Koda9799]

I love your podcast and have nothing but respect for you all as professionals and people. I fully agree that CrossFit failed to have the proper safety personnel out there and that the tragic death of Lazar could and should have been prevented. That being said, I’m disappointed in Chris Hinshaw for the way he completely changed his tune from just prior to the games. He went on Sevan’s show and talked about how much he loved the first event and how amazing and professional the set up was for the entry into the water. He even completely downplayed and blew off any concerns about the water temperature. Having seen that and then hearing him here, he really came across as someone just trying to stir up drama.

[@robertripley4821]

Sean, don’t forget 2010 the first workout of the final 3 workouts (that ended with the rope climb) Dave programmed hand release pushups when the temp on the floor was over 110 (I think it was actually 130). They didn’t know the workout so they didn’t all have gloves or shirts. And it’s simply 100+ degrees with three workouts back-to-back-to-back.

[@sandralechner]

Thank you all for sharing this ❤

[@jessiegoodrich6799]

Thank you for this discussion. I'm now a subscriber

[@Mandajo7]

I appreciate this …thank you

[@bloodstoneDX]

Physical, including EKG/echo, are spot on, totally agree Looking forward to the medical report to see if it actually was preventable. If his heart just stopped, not much that could’ve been done

[@flyingskyhighify]

Right... But that doesn't matter. There was still a huge delay in response and there was still nothing in place and no one there to respond when someone was exhibiting classic drowning symptoms

[@lc86_65]

Disagree. Cardiac arrest can still be reversed if proper CPR is given straight away by competent rescuers.

[@samuele.marcora]

It must be extremely difficult for you guys who knew him personally Yet balanced and professional

[@johnthering8099]

My frustration has been lack of visible of water safety personnel in the lake.

[@sarahwells8250]

Thank you Chris Hinshaw for your insights!

[@marleepowell3840]

I really appreciate and love all of you. Thank you. It’s very comforting to hear you speak. Chris, I’m so sorry for the weight of the sadness you are carrying. Thank you thank you for SPEAKING. I know it has to be unbearably painful ❤

[@ssssdls]

Chris Hinshaw, so sorry for your loss.

[@ironicallyfit518]

I appreciate Laurens answer about bias. Just remember some of these channels don't have the same level of integrity as you guys have.

[@skumancer]

This right here is why I stopped caring about CrossFit as an organization years ago...And honestly this is on Dave Castro...he's the one that's always wanted these extreme feats...

[@trishhigginson9888]

Agree

[@HanSOLOway]

This is really sad but I wouldn’t rely on Garmin GPS or heart rate monitoring in the water. Thought Chris said the water temp wouldn’t be an issue on Sevan.

[@vanessaswayfit]

I am going back and forth between anger and sadness.

[@arthurtheaardvark13]

That story about Jeff was honestly terrifying; like Chris said, we are beyond lucky that only one person died in that event when multiple athletes could have died. Absolutely terrifying

[@ptf55]

The first step is for CF...particularly those in charge of programming...to take a much more humane view towards the athletes. Need to loosen grip on the "fittest on earth," "unknowing and unknowable" sayings in favor of looking after the athletes. Basically...what Brent F said. Thanks for a good video.

[@wohop3n1]

Appreciate your comments and perspective Chris. Especially in light of knowing that speaking out on something like this will be hurtful to your business and bottom line of how you make a living.

[@davidwinslow5206]

Hinshaw told Barbell Spin that Dave Castro asked him how to start the run for Event 1. Hinshaw told Dave he thought the start should be like a cross-country race. Did Hinshaw tell Castro any of the thoughts he is expressing here?

[@ho_town_handler]

Man, I really feel for Chris. And for the family of Lazar, of course. It’s a good point that investigations are going on and we’re not going to get answers the next day.

[@alyssabowen2209]

Chris hit the nail on the head. They are lucky there wasn’t SEVERAL casualties

[@danielhester4]

Just a note on the buoys: I was standing right at the ramp where the athletes finish the run and entered the water. For the first 30-40 athletes a volunteer was standing there telling each athlete "buoys on your left, buoys on your left." We were confused because none of the athletes were following this. Then without warning, the volunteer changed to "buoys on your right!" We saw athletes way off course with no one going out to tell them. Im not an expert on what best practices or standard safety protocols are, but whole thing was very strange to watch.

[@AmaLng0403]

Hinshaw was all excited about the swim. Confident about the water temp and the safety.. Quick switch of opinion I suppose.

[@franksteedz3826]

No more open water just pools only for everyone safety

[@benhutchinson9808]

Open water is functional fitness. Far more than say, ring muscle ups or handstand push ups. The answer isn't to run away - it's to implement the same precautions as occur in open water swimming events.

[@MattWhieldon]

Great job btw guys!

[@surgerome2149]

I love hearing Sean's voice during the games lol!

[@JulietteNov]

@@surgerome2149 AGREED 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻!! It wasn’t the same! His voice, insights, and passion for CrossFit make the broadcasting so special year after year. Maybe, that’s why I am so excited to hear the notification 🔔 of a new episode of TEF 😉!

[@santiagorios4484]

Great content.

[@francesbayly8881]

Thanks Chris and TEF❤

[@Dan_8712]

Lazar taking off his swim cap mid swim makes it clear that heat played a part.

[@jeffbrown5858]

Chris said in a interview before the event that the temperature was not an issue at all now after the fact he is changing his story

[@bastiansiebenburger4111]

Thanks for these great insights and also the twist in the end....both sides of the story. Let's at least learn out of it and reveal all details ....even all this wont bring LD back, but prevents the next tragedy ✊✊

[@stephaniegamez2831]

Can you imagine if the swim was longer?!!

[@monicacederberg5521]

Hinshaw’s interview was absolutely terrifying. My god, those poor athletes. In a future episode, I was wondering if you could report on if the demo team tested this workout, and under what conditions?

[@maxfit68906]

I’ve yet to hear an apology from CrossFit saying they screwed up. Until they do, nothing will change. They’ll continue pushing this caring, community aspect of the sport while making millions in profit without investing a dollar in athlete safety.

[@T4llyV3roo]

I’m sure there are legal reasons they can’t admit fault

[@rtcharge]

They need you back, and move the games to California for a start

[@jrgills]

15:56 the athletes don’t get physicals?? That DEFINITELY needs to change, literally all sports do it

[@jeremyneilsen1263]

All really well said. So many accusations and demands calling for heads, cancellation of crossfit, everyone should forfeit their winnings etc. One of the only requests Luca made was please don't speculate and let his family grieve. When raw iron were interviewed after a win khan crushed with his point of view, all the athletes did. Instead of going home and isolating - the games in a way was a 4 day memorial for Lazar, where the community could grieve together and share what an amazing human he was. As a fan to me he was just another athlete, I knew nothing about him. Now I and many many more got to see what a wonderful human he was. Moments like Pat vellners story on getting him a pair of Reebok shoes because he knew he'd win the event. There will be consequences and the investigation continues but for now and especially the weekend making demands and accusations are hurtful only.

[@NickFreije]

Thank you.

[@beachbri]

I disagree with physicals that can eliminate participants before the competition because many people have competed in games with medical conditions, however, having full medical information on hand for triage medical staff, being able to be pulled by medical staff due to acute medical issues and any important emergency medications (epipens, inhalers etc). Competing in agreed upon standards (temperatures, swim before run, minimum safety staff and minimum training or licensing of safety safety staff is a must though.)

[@paulmcmahon99]

Good discussion, thanks