Where In The World (Of Westeros) Is Prince Daeron Targaryen?

[@khfan4life365]

Hill’s Alive: Where is Daeron? Viserys: Wait, I have five kids?

[@spiritofarkham1235]

That is sadly accurate.

[@Tgsva352]

I think Viserys just forgot to pick him up from daycare

[@HillsAliveYT]

Please, as if Viserys ever picked any of his kids up from daycare.

[@spiritofarkham1235]

Like Viserys would have remembered regardless of his health.

[@lutilda]

It was Aegon's turn to pick him up, which meant Aemond would have been the one to actually do it, but Larys convinced Aemond it was CrispyCole's turn so no one picked him up. Viserys isn't on the schedule.

[@spiritofarkham1235]

@@lutilda And Crispin is demanding that Otto do it. Which he won't

[@made-line7627]

I think Viserys forgot to even check the oven once he put the ingredients in there 👨‍🍳

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

I feel like they should have at least name dropped hin so show fans could get interested and less confused when he actually shows up. Looking forward to Prince Daeron and his dragon.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Agreed, I'm really very confused about how they plan to intro him at any point later on because I can't imagine what non-book readers will think.

[@Tgsva352]

@@HillsAliveYTI would presume something like the greens needing a power up after being reduced to just one dragonrider. The stench of plot device will cling to his character definitely.

[@lutilda]

​@@HillsAliveYTI think they'll either assume they forgot about Daeron, didn't pick up on a mention of him, or just be confused and roll with it. I watched S1 of GoT before I read the books and the whole time I was confused about who characters were and didn't know almost anyone's names. I think HotD is very similar in that way. My friends don't know names but just describe characters to talk about them.

[@TravisKastl-ui9mk]

They are going to mention him in season 2 and then he will appear in season 3. The showrunner already said he hasn't been excluded. Nettles isn't gonna appear till season 3 as well. I advise you watch the channel "The Dragon Demands". He does some great analysis.

[@ikram-258]

​@@TravisKastl-ui9mkso it's confirmed he's not gonna show up until season 3? If it's true I'm disapointed

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

Otto: "What is it lad?" Aemond: "I was hoping my younger brother might have joined you..." Otto: "Daeron's place is in Oldtown." Aemond: "How does he fare?" Otto: "Daeron grows like any squire would under your uncle, Robert. Thick of skin." Supposedly cut from "Driftmark". No reason they can't add something similar in when the new Hightower guy turns up.

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL whhyyyy would they cut that though.

[@Amantducafe]

If this is true, what a letdown!

[@made-line7627]

Wtaf

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

@@HillsAliveYT Not the foggiest. It might not even be legit, hence me saying supposedly. Not to mention Daeron is meant to be rather a gentle type, so "thick skinned" seems a very odd descriptor, unless they are greatly changing his character.

[@vibechecker3168]

I do want him to be in the show because he’s important, interesting and flies a cool blue dragon, but if he does show up, then it’ll feel like they’ve just conjured a random character out of thin air. What’s even more confusing is that you literally could have had him as a baby/toddler/ young child and then put him on a bus to oldtown and name drop him a couple of times.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I mean they literally could have portrayed Alicent as pregnant at some point when the kids were still their young versions and it would have made sense.

[@TravisKastl-ui9mk]

They are gonna mention him in season 2 but he wont appear until season 3 so don't worry. There was a leaked script from season 1 with a scene that got deleted but Aemond mentions him when talking to Otto. They pushed that scene to season 2 and then he will be cast for season 3. The showrunners have said he will be in it. Nettles wont be in until season 3 too.

[@Milothedog706]

It would’ve been sooo easy to include him as a child in season 1. He’s literally so important in this story

[@TravisKastl-ui9mk]

@@Milothedog706 I agree but then he wouldn't have been in season 2 at all and people would be wondering "where is Dearon". and even in season 1 when they have aged them all up he wasn't in kings landing for any of the throne drama so then they would have had to explain where he is and that takes out other scenes from the show. As it is shows always have to cut scenes for time.

[@visupreme2757]

@@TravisKastl-ui9mkexactly, mentioning him in season 1 and then 2 but only showing up in 3 to do so little will feel disappointing

[@vibechecker3168]

"Where in the world is Daeron Targaryen" being fostered under House Sandiego, where else?

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL 100% was aiming for this reference in the video title.

[@QuinnFirstOfHerName]

The Daeron situation is so maddening because I get not including him for time reasons, but they very easily could have mentioned him in a couple places. There is the scene in episode six where Alicent is scolding Aegon and telling him that he's a challenge to Rhaenyra's power just by existing and if she becomes queen his life will be in danger, and Aemond's as well, and no one else, end of list. There is an existing piece of dialogue mentioning brothers of Aegon! Not including Daeron here means his existence will fully be a retcon. I know Ryan Condal reaffirmed in his most recent interview that Daeron will be on the show; it's just so bizarre that he wasn't even mentioned.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Exactly! Like you don't even have to cast anyone, you just have to say his name, it's very odd that they didn't.

[@munken7673]

Yes they at least mentioned Stannis in Season 2

[@munken7673]

Season 1 Sorry wrong button

[@Laramaria2]

I saw someone make a joke that Daeron had to go because he's likable and would bring support from the fandom to the greens 😂 That being said, I still think there's a way to introduce him without feeling weird or an afterthought. I really like Daeron and I hope they do a good job bringing him to the show.

[@leonardohenrique5172]

Tbh I really believe this might be one of the reasons why we haven't seen him yet

[@Emma88178]

Now I'm curious to hear your thoughts about how it could work. If you're a writer for the show, how would you introduce him and explain why characters never mentioned him?

[@jostockton.]

​@fantasticalrascalwhat do you mean? He's never been one of the Blacks

[@Thrawn23.]

​@@Emma88178not sure why they didn't at least mention him. They could have shown him in episode 6 since he had a vicious rivalry with Jace. Then after the events of episode 7 Alicent and Viserys could have agreed to send Daeron away

[@sarahlelys9268]

A list of ways in which Daeron could have been introduced/name-dropped: - Alicent reads a letter from him to her children (good way for info-dumping something, as well) - Alicent writes a letter to him, for example after Aegon's coronation to warn him of what's to come (excellent way, as well, to expose Alicent's fears and reasoning) - Viserys confuses Aemond with Daeron and Alicent is forced to explain the difference between their children - During the Black Council Rhaenyra corrects Daemon's assumption on the number of kids Alicent has (Daemon would have been away for Daeron's birth but Rhaenyra would have been there; they could also underestimate him, which sets up his future arc very nicely) - Alicent begs Viserys for her son Daeron to come back. - Alicent asks Otto for news. - In Ep 6 Alicent namedrops him when she mentions Aegon and his siblings' lives are all forfeit - During Laena's funeral Aegon mentions he's jealous of Daeron, "at least he managed to get away and has fun in Oldtown" - During Ep 9, in the Green Council Otto/Alicent mention their recruiting effort to get allies on their side (which weren't mentioned, and that's a shame) and mention Daeron - Alicent mentions that Daeron and Luke (who could be the same age) didn't get along before Daeron left, and truly the Strong boys have to stop picking on her sweet boys I brainstormed these in 6 minutes. Some of them can even further, deepen, or introduce some interesting plot points. You can't tell me the writers couldn't have done the same in the time they had to write the scripts lmao

[@scottanthonyweidner8692]

Occam’s razor suggests they originally planned on omitting him entirely and then changed their minds such that his existence will be a retcon.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I think that's almost certainly the case, they were originally going to exclude him and either changed their minds at the end of season 1 or left in Daemon's line about the dragons so they'd at least have an opening to add him if they wanted to.

[@lutilda]

Definitely this.

[@Amantducafe]

Doubt, there are 4 bloodlines that flow from Alicent and Viserys union seen in the intro you can even see Daeron symbol in it. They had him in mind they just couldn't fit him in. This show was a risk from HBO after the failure of GOT, so i imagine this is why it feels so rushed with their time jumps and character development.

[@rexibhazoboa7097]

@@Amantducafethat’s not a good enough reason. It wouldn’t affect the timeline of the show for Alicent and Viserys to mention Daeron when talking to the kids. Daeron doesn’t even have to have a sentence strictly about him alone. Viserys could’ve done it in his final dinner scene. Instead he said “I’m glad to see all my family members gathered here tonight” they purposely omitted Daeron when he could’ve gotten a shout out.

[@sixthorder]

According to Ryan Condal, Daeron exists. Not including him makes no sense. He does more during the Dance than all the strongs put together

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL exactly, and if we can have Joffrey just standing around saying and doing nothing then we could at least have had the same with Daeron.

[@Amantducafe]

For real, he helps the Hightower army in many battles, he posed the biggest threat too. Fishfeed stopped any threat from the north and west, Criston Cole did his thing, Aemond going apeshit on the riverlands and Aegon taking vacations it was all in Daeron's hands to keep the Greens on the board. Iirc even the Dragonseeds were a bit hesitant to start their attack immediately because Daeron was with the hightower army.

[@v1olante]

I honestly don't understand WHY they left him out but let's hope he APPEARS

[@v1olante]

I think they didn't include him, because they want things to be black and green for now. They don't want us harboring sympathy for the greens

[@katiemartin6991]

Daemon: "The Greens have 4 dragons" Shrykos and Morghul: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@thegreatpage5912]

Yes they are a joke, for now atleast. Those little hatchlings aren't gonna be of any use. Nor those dragon eggs Daemon brought up for some reason.

[@spiritofarkham1235]

Daemon: No your young hatchlings wil infant riders.

[@Butterfly-ll7mm]

@@thegreatpage5912to be fair Daemon literally brought up Tyraxes💀

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

@@Butterfly-ll7mm At least he didn't include Stormcloud lol.

[@sarahlelys9268]

@@KaiHung-wv3ul He's secretly aiming for a Tyraxes/Vhagar showdown for... you know... reasons... that have nothing to do with his sons inheriting the throne, no no no lmao

[@adahharris943]

Right! Like the only “mention” of him is when Daemon said the greens had 4 dragons. Like would it have been so hard to mention that he was being foster somewhere else. Or even just like a few seconds scene of all of Alicent’s kids together. I mean anything would’ve worked better than just a casual 4 dragon mention.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Exactly, like, have someone say his name. Show Alicent pregnant when Aegon, Aemond, and Helaena were younger. Something.

[@fetchinglydear]

Babe, wake up! New Hill's Alive video just dropped!

[@lutilda]

All they needed to do was have someone say at the family dinner "it's too bad Daeron couldn't leave Old Town to join us". And MAYBE have Alicent holding a baby during one of the scenes when Aemond lost his eye. 😢

[@jostockton.]

Asoiaf fans always writing better plots than the show writers do...

[@chables74]

Season 2 pulls a South Park and the first episode is just a happy-go-lucky day-in-the-life episode of the Daeron Show

[@kurhanchyk]

they probably wanted to cut him altogether, then thought "so we added joffrey but not daeron? that's kinda cringe, retcon that"

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL I mean if that was their thought process, they were correct.

[@theduxabides9274]

"Where's the boy? Where's Daeron? ... WHERE THE FUCK IS DAERON???!!!"

[@Derekivery]

String! String!

[@MRDALEK-wx7he]

Starting season 2 with a whole episode on him and exploring old town is something they will never do but would be excellent

[@Leo_ofRedKeep]

Rhaenyra's and Daemon's own Aegon and Viserys were introduced in one single scene when they are brought to the king. Daeron should have been in a similar way, even if just mentioned in passing. His omission is a sign that he could be entirely cut from the story together with the whole set of battles he is a part of, as these take place in a different part of the realm with a different set of characters.

[@yasmina3999]

I've heard this argument many times " they weren't sure about season 2 so they didn't mention Daeron"- like how does it work? It makes little sense, the smart choice would include mentioning him. 1. They mentioned Daeron and were successful enough to continue the series? Cool, the audience knows about him 2. They mentioned him but didn't get to make season 2? Well, the season already got unanswered questions ( whitewalkers, revenge for Luke, who is going to win,Rhaena's dragon...), so Daeron being one of those is not that bad

[@Sam_Kings]

yeah, personally I would have mentioned him in the first season and if they had then made the (wrong) choice not to include him season two they could have said that he had been assassinated or something.

[@AliSherrr]

Only and only reason to exclude Daeron is because he was a very likeable character. His inclusion would have compromised the whole, "Greens are villain, look at Alicent's children they are all fucked up, Alicent's bad mother and Rhaenyra is a good mother" plot the show runners were going for. He is one of the most likeable characters in the whole Dance of the Dragon story line.

[@vitorfreitas1682]

Tbf Daeron just became better than his big bros because he is away from Otto and Alicent

[@cjstanky]

Just having another baby/toddler stand in and then during the adult scenes having Alicent just reading some letters and mentioning Daeron or even bringing him up during the Green Council would fix most issues. There going over how to secure power against Rhynera and didnt even mention Daeron, Tessareon, and the Hightower forces in Oldtown. You could explain the absence away by having Alicent mention how she wished to keep her youngest out of the war before its mentioned that his existence makes him a threat so its better for him to be fighting. We don't need a full spotlight on him in S1, but just giving the audience a cue of "Remember this name it will be important". They basically did the same thing with Bloody Ben Blackwood.

[@Meechie757]

They could’ve easily mentioned him when Otto returned to be viserys’ hand again. If you haven’t read the books Daeron with be a completely random character. Curious to see how they will work him into the plot.

[@yasmina3999]

For me it's pretty obvious they planned to cut him entirely and only changed their mind after the shooting. Like,we got Joffrey ? Helaena, Baela and Rhaena aldo were barely talking, so ? I'm saying you, they got negative reaction from the fans and because of this decided to put him in the story.Otherwise Alicent would have mentioned him in her "you are the challenge, Aegon, and Aemond as well" speech in ep 6. He only was mentioned in two scenes and each could be easily edited 1. In the opening Alicent&Viserys have 4 bloodlines, and one of them is placed weirdly. Almost like they didn't plan to put them 4 near each other. But maybe I'm digging too much and it should show that Daeron was sent away 2. Daemon mentions him in the last episode. Pay attention that we don't see Matt saying " 4 dragons"- we only hear him while the camera shows other characters. So I suspect Matt had to record this line later on.

[@fayedunaway8]

Viserys in his last day on earth well contented to be with all the people he loves in one room having family dinner - fucking forgets Daeron, his youngest

[@MrFredstt]

If Daeron isn't in the show we riot

[@v1olante]

They CAN'T leave out Daeron and Tessarion completely 😭

[@andersfrieden567]

I think it was a mistake not introducing him. The show could have easily cut some of the less important scenes with established characters to introduce Daeron.

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

Great video. I basically agree with what you're saying here. Still having a member of the Greens who's completely out of the loop could be interesting. There's lots of scope for Daeron to have a very different perspective to the other Greens. Maybe he thinks his big brother Aegon is some perfect prince opposing the unambiguously evil Rhaenyra. In the book Daeron's arc did seem to have an element of a child trying to be a hero and struggling with the unheroic reality of war. I remain optimistic.

[@HillsAliveYT]

I like your take on it!

[@Amantducafe]

Everyone talking about Daeron omission and here i am praying to the old gods and the new that Nettles doesn't get butchered. Her role is important to Rhaenyra's distrust on Daemon not to mention that she is the only one that was able to domesticate a wild Dragon. I also don't want to play the representation card because it is criticize by both sides as being "too overwhelming" or "not enough" but Nettles is a woman, a small folk (poor), brown-skinned girl, with black hair and brown eyes. Many people complained about the Velaryons being race-swapped, i didn't mind it they actually turned out great but Nettles was the perfect character for that inclusion.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Agreed, I very much hope Nettles isn't cut or massively altered, because I sincerely think she's not a Targaryen and I LOVE the idea of dragons not being some Targaryen exclusive thing because of their imagined superiority, but because they managed to keep the dragons to themselves.

[@michalgenesove1646]

God this hurts to read now​@@HillsAliveYT

[@OneFiction666]

I feel like if nothing else, he should get the same amount of mentions as someone like Stannis in the first book.

[@Argos-xb8ek]

I feel as a whole Daeron wasnt utilized correctly he is the only child of Alicent's who is supposed to be of age with Rhaenyras eldest son Jacerys as a matter of fact in the book Viserys went out of his way to order the two of them to share a wetnurse so that they would hopefully bond as two babies who shared the same maid that nursed them but they still ended up hating eachother O just hate that this relationship between two of the more levelheaded children in the story who sadly couldnt find kinship in eachother due to their mothers hatred of one another very sad.

[@BigV24]

My favourite character, excited to see him mentioned today. As you rightly point out it would’ve been very easy to introduce him indirectly in season 1. No doubt a lot of viewers would be confused about Otto and Alicent talking about him today.

[@DarkKing009]

I think they took him off because they did not only Green a "good guy" in the show.

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL well I love the Greens even when they're trash so that plan failed.

[@DarkKing009]

@@HillsAliveYT Team Green are trash people in the books, and trash people in the show and I love them. Half are driven by pure spite of the former King. If I say the words daddy issues and crappy husband that covers half of the cast of Team Green.

[@jostockton.]

​@@DarkKing009you just described TB though

[@Emma88178]

Thank you for this! I've been hoping you would cover this topic. I definitely agree that leaving Daeron as a ward to his mother's family in Oldtown was a good call in keeping power over there, especially for the war. However, the show writers should have explicitly had the main green characters talk about that and bring it up from time and time. That would have helped make it a little more comprehensible to the show-watchers.

[@SaneMillennial]

And last night we just got confirmation that Daeron exists! Kind of annoying that they didn't establish him in Season 1. I didn't like how rushed Season 1 was. It would've been better to break that up into two 10 episode seasons itself to flesh out all of the relationships b/t people like Harwin and Rhaenyra, Daemon and Laena, and show their kids more, and just more of everyone's interactions to build the tension between them all more slowly. Even in this season they seem to not have a 3rd child for Helena and Aegon as they changed how they did Blood & Cheese and never introduced that child, which changes how impactful that would've been. I don't get why they didn't want to make Blood & Cheese as bad as it was in the books when they had Emma Arryn adopt Alyssa's birthing death in season 1 of this show for no reason except to shock the audience. Doesn't make any sense to me on why they made those choices.

[@silverwolfe3636]

"Where in the World is...... Prince Daeron Targaryen?" "Listen up Gumshoes!" RIP Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen.

[@giorgiamoretti6642]

I think it will be ridiculous when he shows up.. especially looking back at the family dinner, the whole “finally all together for one last time” completely ruined

[@BigV24]

Funnily enough that would’ve been a good time to mention him as well.

[@jaimelannister1797]

Cut from the show. "Daeron exists" but will never be mentioned or seen

[@lorettalynn2610]

Honestly the only good point of Viserys that ppl keep repeating is that he got that one good quote is that we can't control dragons, oh sure anyone with an experience with Dragons can fucking say that but oh when the good king does it: It's iconic? Thanks a lot for stating the obvious, really appreciate the opinion

[@BryndenBloodraven]

The showrunners giving the greens as many L as possible.

[@SolarDragon007]

Yeah I really hate that. Between making Aegon II a rapist/child fighting enjoyer and cutting Daeron, they REALLY want people to side with the Blacks. I find this funny since one of the worst atrocities we've seen in the show so far was perpetrated by Rhaenys.

[@Emma88178]

@@SolarDragon007 I still love that the greens are still popular with the audience though. Thanks to people simping for Aemond.

[@SolarDragon007]

@Emma88178 True. He's easily the most interesting character on the Green side. It helps that the show has made him a much more sympathetic character than he is in the book. Maybe they made Aegon II more evil to compensate for having made Aemond and Alicent more sympathetic.

[@thegreatpage5912]

I hope it doesn't boil down to Aegon & Aemond vs Rhaenyra and her 7 or so dragon riders. If so then the war seems ridiculously lopsided in the Black's favor. At which point why not just claim the capital right away, even with Vhagar present: they still have Meleys and Caraxes to counter her. Certain changes like omitting certain characters and changing the role of another (making Rhaenyra and Baela actually fight) changes the dynamite of the overall war. And they better not cut my Triple Threat over Tumbleton or I want a refund.

[@davidmccray5751]

Hbo added him in the official characherts guide. (And in a lot of interviews he was mentioned) So I think he will be introduced in season 2

[@silverprincess2642]

No idea who he is, but i'm going to go with; he probably overslept. 😂

[@HillsAliveYT]

LMAO he'd have to be full on Sleeping Beauty to miss all this stuff.

[@ayanna6327]

Daeron not showing up in S1 is one thing, but never mentioning him at all is just confusing and strange. I feel like the show did make a mistake because now any mention of him going forward is going to feel like an afterthought to fans. I feel like all it would take is one comment or conversation in S1 that would make it less so, like Alicent mentioning that Daeron's been sent been Oldtown in ep. 6, and when Otto returns maybe a comment on Daeron then, possibly Alicent asking how he's doing. And his final mention can be in ep. 9 during the Green council scene where they mention that they have a prince in Oldtown that can help them consolidate their power. These wouldn't have to take up a considerable amount of screentime, but it would be enough to make Daeron a character that has been thought-out before production and increase fandom curiosity for him. That being said, I'd rather have Daeron be in the show later than not at all. I think this mistake can be mended if he's properly adapted for the screen.

[@bohunkmusic9473]

I'll be so bummed if they cut him out. He's the closest thing the greens have to an upstanding character, and has the blue fire-shooting Tessarion for crying out loud...

[@captainziggy82]

The show writers not mentioning him the entire season is weird, he also doesn’t go to old town until he’s 12 so it’s like??? lol

[@thecriticalmaester9702]

I've said this repeatedly on my channel - House of the Dragon is biased AGAINST the Green Faction and IN FAVOUR of the Black one. Most of the Green faction's characters are villainized and demonized within the show's narrative, while Rhaenyra (and most of her faction) has been whitewashed and made into the 'good guys' of the story. Daeron is a 'good' Green character, so he probably needed to be cut out. 🤔 I hope I'm wrong, but I think that I'm most likely right. 🤧

[@HillsAliveYT]

I actually think the show's writers made the Greens more appealing than at least I expected them to, but that could also be because the actors absolutely slay their characters and because I went into the show expecting them to paint the Greens as Lannister-level villains from the jump, so I was pleasantly surprised when they actually humanized them and made them sympathetic at all. GoT also didn't help because obviously the audience was primed to see the "real" Targaryens as the heroes, but you make a fair point in that I can't figure out why they would include so many characters as background filler and NOT introduce Daeron at all.

[@9xprincess]

Excluding him from S1 really takes away from his dynamic and role within the family. They should have found a way to include him. At least have us see him as a child and a scene with him older being sent to Oldtown with Alicent mentioning how important it is that he and his dragon foster. Mention him in S1 and S2.

[@Morgothslackey]

Out of sight, out of mind as far as Viserys is concerned. I have doubts if he even remembered Aegon and Aemond.

[@jlord9638]

A little while ago I suggested a video on a certain topic though I have new information on that topic The show kind of made the Starks more rustic than they where in the books. House Stark in the novels where not as wealthy as the Lannister's but they where a lot wealthier than the show. First lets look at what they wear in the books which is nothing like there costumes in the show. Side note Lord Rickard owned Steel armour and gold spurs. When Arya is packing to go to Kings Landing she files where chest with silk and Sansa is fond of blue silk. In Kings Landing Eddard looked nothing like what he did in the show, he always wore what he called his council silk. Ned also commissions a new uniform for his guards. Long cloaks of heavy grey wool decorated with white satin borders. Their cloaks are pinned with hands of beaten silver representing there Lords office as hand of the King. When he was on the Iron Throne Ned wore a white double embosomed with a grey dire wolf. In Winterfell at the feast welcoming the King and Royal Family they all dressed grandly, including Benjen Stark. There are high born brothers in the Nights Witch from the north and south and I have never seen one dressed as well as Benjen at that feast, not even Lord Commander Mormont himself. He wears rich black velvet high black leather boots. His wide belt has a silver buckle and very heavy silver chain. When Bran is attacked by Wildlings he is attacked for what he is wearing and he is second legitimate son and he is wearing a wolfs head broch of silver and jet. Jet is a gemstone and this is not a formal event this is just outriding in the woods. Jon wears fine blacks and mole skin gloves which would not be cheap. At Winterfell harvest feast Bran is dressed quote, as befits a Prince and Robb wears a bronze crown and Catelyn describes her sons royal Kingly attire as quote magnificent. Also Theon Greyjoy dressed very well when he was living with Stark in silk and Gold and Balon fears the Starks have made him soft. I doubt Greyjoy money was funding Theon's extravagant lifestyle. When he takes Winterfell he crowns himself Prince of Winterfell and orders and orders a new crown forged with black diamonds and chunks of gold. Where did he get the gold and diamonds if not from Winterfell's plundered treasury. And before Winterfell Bran and Luwin gave the Manderley's gold and build a royal fleet and mint coins. At the Winterfell harvest feast Now lets look at Winterfell it is much bigger and much grander than in the show this is a Castle built of granite which is an opulent martial. Winterfell is a huge castle complex spanning several acres and encircled by two massive granite walls. Remember the Castle is built over natural hot springs and as the wiki explains. The water is piped through walls and chambers to heat them, making Winterfell more comfortable than other castles during the harsh northern winters. Also from the wiki Inside the walls, the complex is composed of dozens of courtyards and small open spaces. Weapons training and practice take place in those yards. The inner ward is a second, much older open space in the castle where archery practice takes place. It is located next to the broken tower. Inside Winterfell stands the inner castle, which contains the Great Keep and the Great Hall. Winterfell's towers and halls have diamond-shaped window panes.[6] Inner Castle The Great Keep is the innermost castle and stronghold of the castle complex. It was built over natural hot springs to keep it warm.[5] The Great Keep contains bedchambers for House Stark[5] as well as the solar of Lord Eddard Stark.[7] The building is connected to the armory by a covered bridge.[8] From a window on the covered bridge, one can see the entire yard.[9] Beneath the Great Keep are cellars with narrow windows.[10] The Great Hall is used for receiving guests and the place where the household dines together, including the Lord of Winterfell. It is made of grey stone[11] and has wide doors made of oak and iron,[12] which opens to the castle yard, and a rear exit leads to a dimly-lit gallery.[12] Inside it can hold eight long rows of trestle tables, four to each side of the central aisle,[12] and the hall can seat five hundred people.[13] There is a raised platform for noble guests, and the walls are covered with banners.[11] The hall contains the high seat of the old Kings in the North. The seat's cold stone has been polished by the many lords who have sat upon it, and its massive arms are decorated with the carved heads of snarling direwolves.[14][15] The small sept was built for Lady Catelyn Tully, a southron, by her husband, Lord Eddard.[16] Courtyard and Other Buildings The First Keep, a squat and round drum tower, is the oldest surviving part of the castle but is no longer in use. Around it lies a lichyard where the Kings of Winter would bury their loyal servants. The keep has gargoyles atop it.[17][6] Maester Kennet determined it was built after the Andals arrived.[18] The broken tower, also known as the Burned Tower, was once the tallest watchtower in Winterfell. Over 140 years ago a lightning strike set it afire and the top third collapsed inward, but no one rebuilt it.[19][20] It stands behind the old inner ward. Crows nest atop the broken tower.[19] The ancient godswood of Winterfell has stood untouched for ten thousand years, with three acres of old packed earth and close-together trees creating a dense canopy, which the castle was built around. At the center of the grove stands an ancient weirwood with a face carved into it, standing over a pool of black water.[16] Across the godswood from the heart tree, beneath the windows of the Guest House, an underground hot spring feeds three small pools, with a moss-covered wall looming above them. The godswood is enclosed by walls, and is accessed by a main iron gate, or smaller wooden ones. The Glass Gardens[21] is a greenhouse heated by the hot springs, which turn it into a place of moist warmth.[5] It is used to grow fruits, vegetables, and flowers.[9][22] The garden has green and yellow glass panes[10] locked in frames.[8] The crypt of Winterfell, located near the First Keep, is where members of House Stark are buried. The underground crypts are long and narrow, with pillars moving two by two along its length. Between pillars stand the sepulchers of the Starks of Winterfell, the likenesses of the dead seated on thrones, with iron swords set before them to keep the restless spirits from wandering, and snarling direwolves at their feet. The crypts are deep under the earth, cavernous and bigger than the complex above ground. They are accessed by a twisting stone stair and a huge ironwood door that lies at a slant to the floor. The stair continues below to older levels where the most ancient Kings in the North are entombed.[23][17][10] The Bell Tower is connected to the rookery by a bridge. The bridge is covered and runs from the fourth floor of the tower to the second floor of the rookery.[6][8] The maester's turret is below the rookery.[24] The Library Tower houses the library at Winterfell. A stonework staircase winds about its exterior.[8] The Guards Hall is in line with the Bell Tower, and further back, the First Keep.[6] Winterfell has undercrofts and cellars.[25] The castle also has dungeons,[25] including tower cells.[26] Walls Winterfell is a huge castle complex spanning several acres, defended by two massive walls of grey granite with a wide moat between them.[4] The outer wall is eighty feet high, while the inner is one hundred feet high.[4] There are guard turrets on the outer wall and more than thirty watch turrets on the crenelated inner walls. The great main gates[7] have a gatehouse made of two huge crenelated bulwarks which flank the arched gate[8] and a drawbridge that opens into the market square of the winter town.[27][28] There is a narrow tunnel inside of the inner wall stretching halfway around the castle, allowing travel from the south gate all the way to the north gate without interruption.[19] The Hunter's Gate is close to the kennels and the kitchens. It opens directly onto open fields and the wolfswood, so people can come and go without having to cross through the winter town. It is favored by hunting parties.[4] The East Gate[10] or east gate[29] leads to the kingsroad.[10] The Kingsroad Gate[7] may be another name for the same gate. The Battlements Gate is a small arched postern in the inner wall. It crosses the moat between the walls but does not have a passageway through the outer wall.[7]# When Jon Snow becomes Lord Commander of the Nights Watch he considers building a glass building but thinks it will be costly and for such fine glass he would need to look Myr and by the freedom of a few glass makers. We know Sansa loves lemon cakes and lemon trees do not grow naturally in the north importing lemon seeds to Winterfell from the reach or Doren would not be cheap. My guess would be the seeds came form Doren as one need only sail up the narrow sea than the up the White Knife. Finally Maester Luwin has his own turret and mentions having servents of his own. The Starks top servants have servants Not as wealthy as the Lannister but it clear Ned and Robb after him where unlike in the show 2 of the wealthiest man in the world..

[@OcarinaSapphr-]

In the books, Daeron's of an age to Jace (they shared a wetnurse by the King's own order)- but given how out-of-whack the timeline is in the show (& the almost random changes in the ages of multiple characters, especially the younger ones), is there going to be a greater age disparity between them- or is the character's age going to be kept accurate...?

[@yasmina3999]

Of Daeron is included, he needs to be 16 at least to fight battles

[@spiritofarkham1235]

Well Daeron is supposed to be fostering in oldtown as stated in Fire & Blood. The show does multipule time skips, seasonn 1. logically for the timeframe of the actually episodes daeron has been in oldtown off screen. But he never gets mentioned outside of Daemon's mention of Tessarion. Both George and Ryan Condoll saying he will show up means that he should show up. However he should have got a namedrop at least.

[@Emma88178]

That's the reason why it's an issue. It's fine that he's been fostered away at Oldtown. But the fact that NOT ONCE has he ever been mentioned, as though he doesn't exist for the other characters, especially the greens, is what makes it ridiculous.

[@ZorcTheDarkOnex]

I don't think it was a mistake, i think it was just lazy writing :\ Btw, i am almost done with clash of kings >:)

[@HillsAliveYT]

I'm suss about the claims that Daeron was always in the plan, I think they may have switched things up at some point and just didn't deal with it on screen. And yay! A Storm of Swords is pretty commonly regarded as the best book in the series, so far anyway.

[@ayiza8511]

And we have got all of two mentions of Dearon in season 2. Doubt we are gonna see him before season 3-4

[@davidduran6163]

They should have made him a mention or a brief appearance during the pig's prank on Aemond. The good thing is that this will greatly disconcert the black fandom because in their ignorance almost no one knows the books and that is why they do not know Prince Daeron Targaryen (there are some videos about him wondering where they are but that's all) it will be the most disconcerting surprise for the fandom of Rhaenyra, a son of Alicent who dealt the blacks the worst defeats.

[@business_casual_rex]

"A whole ass other child" the way this is casually said 🤣

[@stelmaria-mx]

A lot of these omissions and changes could have easily been solved by an eleventh episode, in between the actor switch. Crunch episodes 9 and 10 together and give us more Harwin, Daeron, Laena, maybe even Alicent having issues with marrying her children together. There was so much cut from the show that it muddies the story they want to tell.

[@Spoogebro]

id love to hear your thoughts on nettles being cut

[@Amantducafe]

George in an interview of HotD says that she was his favorite character to write/explore and he wished he could even write more about her but sadly couldn't due to the constrains within Fire & Blood.

[@Spoogebro]

@@Amantducafe Im very curious how, if at all they will adapt her. Shes the driving wedge that leads Rhaenyra to betraying Daemon. Her relationships and motives remain ambiguous. The fact that this dark skinned dark haired girl, the furthest thing from a valaryian tames a dragon and outlives most of the characters is very powerful and makes me sad that the only actual black character might have been cut entirely.

[@TravisKastl-ui9mk]

Deron will be mentioned in season 2 and will appear in season 3. They are slowing down on the story adaptation so they can get more seasons out of it and really go into depth with the characters. "The Dragon Demands" channel does some really good analysis on this topic and others.

[@EmilySC23]

I‘m sorry, but what time constraint?? Just cut half of Daemon’s disturbing hallucinations and you have all the time in the world, at least in season 2

[@robstewartstewart98]

Soon, we will see! The war will begin! As far as the franchise as a whole.....In retrospect.........I think George should have not bothered with the Bravvos arc, had Arya and the Hound arc quickly join up with Sansa and Lady Stoneheart, had Tyron quickly get to Dany, no Robert Strong/Mountain return (screw Clegangebowl) and no Dany returning to the Dothraki Sea (can't have the Dothraki charge the field if they dont come over with Dany). Heck......there are things you can do for the story to create a scenario where Dany and Tyrion go straight from Essos to White Harbor rather than Kings Landing/Dragonstone first. Heres an alternate timeline then........George completes Winds of Winter (and makes it the last book) in 2017, with the last season of the show (season 7) coming out in 2018. As for me........i decided to just kinda fuse multiple fan theories from a bunch of great fan theorists out there together, and write a fan fic where George decides to just write a blog post where he says what the plot points for the last books will be. Then printed it, stabled it, and put it on my shelf next to the books. Created some nice perspective. Helped me both imagine changes to the show I would have made.....AND some scenes I pretend happen during and after the series we got.

[@asdfghjkl.196]

They could have done a 15 second scene of him being born and then sent to the old town to study or whatever he was doing between 2 of the time jumps. It would make no sense for him to appear now. Or maybe he’ll appear and be revealed he was kept a secret from the blacks as a backup if they killed the other sons since i believe he is the youngest and born closer to viserys death idk

[@Emma88178]

Daeron was the fourth and youngest of Viserys and Alicent and he was around 14-15 when Viserys died.

[@BorrosBaratheon]

TeamGreen 🟢👑🦌

[@DarkKing009]

And also just to make it harder to explain to show only fans who do not have time to read the books.

[@luvprue1]

I think it was a big mistake to leave Daeron completely out of season 1 . Daeron was the only Green character that was likable in the book. Leaving him out of season 1 does not even make sense. They should have at least mention him, especially if they plan on introducing him later. Someone should have made a reference to him, or at least mention his name, so it wouldn't be so out of place when he suddenly shows up.

[@jostockton.]

Uhhh Alicent, Helaena, Alys and Tyland.

[@derangedmaniac3827]

Schrodinger Daeron you'll always be famous

[@DrRockso1987]

Daeron from HOTD = Tysha from GOT Mentioned a couple of times but notably absent when the time actually mattered. I pray I'm wrong and he appears in season 2 or season 3.

[@Emma88178]

daeron wasn't even mentioned on the show at all. Certainly not by name.

[@DrRockso1987]

@@Emma88178 I'm going by George RR Martin confirming that Alicent gave birth to four children. He said Daeron is currently at Old Town and that's why he wasn't in the season. But who knows if that changes later.

[@LadyDreamfyre]

He's absent because Ryan didn't want to put him in the show at first, but GRRM insisted

[@undertakenheart]

I have this fear they're going to make Daeron Alicent's bastard. I don't get why we wouldn't get even a name drop.

[@robstewartstewart98]

Hello. I hope/wonder if this is overthinking. I know I have made lots of posts about my ASOIAF and GOT headcanons (and published my fan fic on 2 websites) and tried to be clear I am deeply indebted to not only the fan community in general, but specific creators. I mention a couple of times in the fan fic that its ideas are so indebted to others. That, plus the fact that I did not copy and paste text directly from the fan creators I was inspired by, AND am not making any money off the fic........I did not engage in stealing, did I? Well, maybe the list I am about to post is a little paranoid. But I also want to thank and shoutout some BRILLIANT creators out there! I owe them so much! Really helped me enjoy the franchise. THANK YOU TO THEM ALL AND GO CHECK OUT THEIR WORK! In a few places, I may have tweaked some things in my presentation of the final fan fic. But in the end......I never would have thought this stuff (and certainly not the stuff that slightly deviated from some of what they were going for) without them. Far more than any tweaks I made, this is a work that was born from these brilliant makers..... Also....I make the obvious caveat that none of them ever had conversations with me where they said "way to go! write this!" The (I think largely) full, at least in terms of creators, youtube channels, written posts, and fan fics who focused my mind is: - Preston Jacobs - Quinn's Ideas - David Lightbringer - Hill's Alive - Girl Nettles - The North Remembers - Ned Stark Lives - Joe Magician - Company of the Cat(?) I think - Grey Waste Tim - Alt Shift X - Whoever made that video I saw a long time ago that suggested the last episode should have had the 7 Kingdoms fully breakup - Multiple(?) I think people suggesting the final battle against the Night King could/should have been a tag-team effort. - Did the showrunners canonized the idea that the Night King was made at what became the Winterfell Godswood? Or did I just see some fan(s) guess that? Either way, loved that idea! - A reddit like forum somewhere where someone talked about their version of the "Maester Conspiracy" idea - While these do not should up in the work itself, in terms of visualizing the whole of Planatos, I am in personal debut to multiple fan fics about Dunk and Egg's adventures, a speculation from a thread somewhere on how to interpret Dany's House of the Undying vision (loved it so much I consider it canon in my mind), and while how I sketched out in my mind what lies beyond Westeros in a way that was more me making my own things up, the impetus came from a video someone did writing a multipart story in maps of what happens after Game of Thrones ends.

[@robertflintoft5614]

Until he actually appears on screen I'm not sure if confident he makes it into the story, they already cut one of the non targ dragon riders and while I'd argue it makes the story a lot worse I could potentially see them having the turn clock story and Adam of Hull battle and the caltrops without Dareon

[@normtrooper4392]

While it is a good adaptation I think they don't have the full space for everything. It's not a position I would like to be in as a screenwriter.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah it's a tough place to be in and I tend to give the TV adaptation screenwriters a bit of leeway just because GRRM really does write material that is incredibly difficult and expensive to adapt.

[@Tj11813]

He got the faegon treatment. Whatever happened there.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Dear god I hope not, I am forever bummed about the absence of Young Griff in GoT, especially since so much of Dany's arc would have made more sense if he existed.

[@ayiza8511]

Dearon and Mealor . They both disappeared

[@dhruv9744]

We haven’t even seen another actor cast for Daeron or scene any trailer evidence. I think they’ve most likely cut him out and will give split give his role to Aegon. That way they won’t have to deal with Tom Glyn-Carney being missing from the show for a whole season, because in the book King Aegon was missing from the story for a big chunk of the war.

[@dreamy_vale]

Daeron is BLACK? Me: Daeron who? Hill's Alive: Old Town Me remeting all southern war shifts existed. Okay, the plot twist which would explain it all. Daeron has black hair, that's why greens don't speak about him, Vis is obv not bothered about his green kids by default, that's why Daeron has to prove himself and been quite impressive. What about that?😅

[@greatwarden4853]

I support the show-runner's choice here. Assuming that Daeron will be given a strong introduction when he does show up, the option is to either have the scene occur in season 1 (in which case a child actor will show up once and a different actor will play him in the later seasons) or to wait until he's relevant to the story. Also: when would be a good time to name-drop him? Many of the arguments about how he should have been mentioned in season 1 do not address WHEN he should have been mentioned. Episodes 1 to 3 is probably too early and, with the time-skips, none of the other times are obvious candidates for "this is the perfect time to talk about my youngest child an entire continent away". If I were the show-runners, I'd start name-dropping him two to three episodes before the introductory scene. Given the fact that a lot is going to be happen in quick succession in the next seasons, it's likely that season 2 will start weeks, days or even hours after the end of season 1. If they don't do too many time-skips It's not impossible for Daeron to be name-dropped three or four times per episode in season 2 and STILL have this to be too early for his introductory scene.

[@equusquaggaquagga536]

SPOILER Daeron died on the way back to his home planet

[@billberndtson]

It'll be nice to have a Green with a soul apart from Helena.

[@Emma88178]

and alicent

[@Sam_Kings]

I have always thought it was interesting how Daeron contrasts with his brothers and sister. From what I remember he was described as being comparatively normal, which only really goes to show how terrible a job Allicent and Viserys did at raising their kids.

[@LSK1]

Hey

[@queenxx1690]

First they rush everything later they have problem stupid Hbo

[@stelmaria-mx]

Daeron is really only important because of Tessarion. He himself doesn't do all that much in either Tumbleton, and dies ironically.

[@Amantducafe]

I disagree. Daeron was the main reason the Hightower was safely marching north (Yes Tessarion became an important element to that) but then by the time they are close to fighting the Dragonseeds the situation is dire for the greens. Fishfeed destroyed the Lannister army and they never recovered (Plus Dalton being a cancer), Criston Cole gets destroyed with the remnants that departed from Kingslanding, Aemond is going apeshit on the riverlands, Aegon is taking a summer vacation, Haelena took a leap of faith and Jaehaera is just a little baby girl. After the interaction with the Dragonseeds, Aemond is gone, Aegon is presumed dead by everyone and his 2 male children dead so the next in the sucession line is Daeron, they even wanted to declare him Prince of Dragonstone and hurry a capture of Kingslanding for his coronation but the seeds started doing their shenanigans too since they also wanted to be kings. So you see, Daeron role is important, it sets tension with the Dragonseeds but also keeps the Greens on the board.

[@Chinchilla2310]

Stannis was introduced in season 2 even though he appeared in the first book. I don’t think it’s that much of a big deal, considering we have competent writers and GRRM confirmed he’s around.

[@Emma88178]

but at least stannis was mentioned on the show in season 1 by name. Daeron never was. That's the issue.

[@notsorry4735]

Stannis was never meant to appear in season 1, he wasn't in the first book. He was name dropped and we got some understanding of who he was ahead of time but regardless he's not a good comparison. This is like not showing or name dropping Robb Stark.

[@asli9812]

Will Daeron be a part of season 2??