Where is the EVIDENCE for God?? Call Forrest Valkai & Eve / Promise | Sunday Show 12.22.24

[@FaiaHalo]

Little message at the end for those who want to read it. 8:17 Troll. 13:34 Emma (they/she) - Theist | "At what point do you consider yourself fully deconverted, rather than just on the process of deconstruction?" 26:56 Aneesh (he/him) - Theist | Caller claims he has a philosophical argument to prove the existence of the Muslim god. 47:16 Frank (he/him) - Theist | Caller literally pulls the "have you ever seen an eye evolve in a lab?" since he claims that the eye is "an amazing creation." 59:55 Dirk (he/him) - Theist | This caller literally claims that aliens are gods that guided "ancient people." 1:24:54 John (he/him) - Theist | [TW: Caller talks about Hitchens in a very disgusting way all throughout the call] Caller claims that Hitchens' atheism "led to his alcoholism and depression." [Yeah...] 2:01:11 Adam (he/him) - Theist | Caller is an ordained minister who claims that both hosts are going to hell, because he claims that the Christian god, who he claims is "perfect" has "every right to do that" to people who are "choosing sin over a perfect god." PS: sorry I'm late today, I was helping some friends with holiday preparations. And since I also consider all the lovely people who always leave such kind messages that make my day my friends, I want to say to you happy holidays! I hope you have some wonderful time with your loved ones, or that you spend these days however you want to spend them, if possible, you deserve it

[@FaiaHalo]

I also got another shot out from Forrest today, so I'm incredibly happy!

[@wyldink1]

And happy holidays to you, too. You're still the MVP, and that's just an undisputed fact of reality.

[@winstonjen5360]

Happy holidays! Don't apologise for the delay. I hope you have. A wonderful break.

[@km666]

Thanks so much!! Happy Holidays!!

[@ItsJustAisling]

Aww, we love you too! Thanks for always helping us with the time lines for calls! I super hope you have a great holiday - you deserve it!

[@williammiller7908]

I love how Promise doesn't let callers interrupt her and ends the calls once callers begin to repeat themselves. She is a great host!!!

[@HypatiaK]

Aaaand she does it without being abusive.

[@Studio732JRL-k7y]

Aannndd she's easy on the eyes... Along with being sharp as a knife and can get her point across without resorting to being overtly abrasive.

[@anuuuul]

Promise was on fire in this episode. Loved all of her responses and the way she directed the calls - I learned a lot. She’s such an amazing addition to The Line.

[@jayhei869]

I like how Forrest asks Aneesh if he has heard of "Rock-Paper-Scissors" and he just continues his script like he was not asked a question at all.

[@ivanpetrov5255]

Forrest: _explains the rules of Rock-paper-scissors_ Aneesh: Can I respond? *continues his script* He even pretended he listened 😅

[@kentonbaird1723]

What would you expect of a Christian? Honesty?

[@camb06]

@@kentonbaird1723do you mean “Theist”? I don’t think Anesh said they were a Christian

[@mrm2946]

Most likely a language barrier to be honest. I don't think he understood the concept of what Forrest was talking about and just went off like nothing happened lol

[@SapphicBibliophile]

@@camb06He’s Muslim, I believe.

[@Locust13]

Aneesh: *puts pillow over face, jumps underwater, grabs 1970s car phone* "well, time to call into the show and present the same debunked argument I've presented 10 times while not listening at all" Dude responds to everything with "no no no no no no" and then runs to a different part of his script and reads it.

[@thancrow]

@@Locust13 I despise when they read from a script

[@VanHalenIsolated]

1:36:20 I have been in recovery from alcohol and drugs since 2006. I was a Christian since the moment I could first think until I was about 35, I’m 38 and a half now; the half matters, just wait. I used god and 12 step programs to help keep me sober and the most I ever got was just over a year of sobriety. Today, I have more than 3 and a half years of sobriety and I’ll be 4 years sober on February 2nd. So with the John call, I couldn’t stay sober AS a Christian. I’m an atheist and have been happier, more joyful, more grateful, and sober longer than I ever have been.

[@thewormthatneverdies]

Congratulations on your sobriety! I'll hit ten years in a few months. No higher power required!

[@susieporter7758]

Well done from a happy sober atheist 👍

[@AW-uv3cb]

Well done!

[@RenegadeWanderer]

Christopher Hitchens and Matt Dilahunty are who helped me learn about critical thinking, logic, what are good and bad arguments, why evidence and sound reasoning are very important with anything one believes or accepts. I still re-watch a lot of Christopher Hitchens. He was an amazing, awesome person!

[@kentonbaird1723]

I remember being deep in my edgy atheist stage when I watched him and Stephen Fry butcher the Catholic Church on live television together. He was a great thinker and an excellent speaker.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

​@@kentonbaird1723*Is ...Mr. Fry is thankfully still with us.

[@SapphicBibliophile]

Same for me, too, they’re who I found 10 yrs ago and I was already long done with Christianity. but I was definitely “spiritual”. One episode on the ACA channel and I became an atheist. It was too undeniable. I mean, I wasn’t ready to call myself one for a few more days…then it scared me, so I ran to witchcraft for ‘bout 10 years. Then I found Forrest on TikTok at a time where I had finally stopped studying to try some spells and lo and behold, they worked at exactly the same rate praying works and I just subconsciously processed that for a few weeks and at that time I flu found the Line and was like, “yeeeeah I can’t ignore that I’m an atheist any longer.”

[@SapphicBibliophile]

@@kentonbaird1723That debate was epic.

[@EvanRock-q9g]

Same! I wish I could have met Hitchens so I could thank him for all he did to help me find the truth. Rest in power Christopher

[@craiganders3424]

I love how Forrest described how we may be in a self-contained universe and compared it to rock, paper, scissors. What a great way to even explain it to a child❤

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Yeah. That was a new one. If he came up with that, I'm impressed.

[@Where_is_Waldo]

I enjoyed that too.

[@David34981]

And Aneesh didn't even respond to it AT ALL.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

Emergent properties of material reality which humans deem as being significant or divinely ordained. Arguments from ignorance or incredulity ultimately.

[@markmcgee2417]

Promise totally nailed it on this episode by taking her own experiences with Christianity and cornering the conversations back to the caller's own beliefs. She has a very good talent of speaking the language of the callers and asking hard hitting questions.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Yep. Her confidence and mastery seems to grow each show. A star is born.

[@valeriewilliams9562]

She is so good about getting to the heart of the issue when everyone is getting lost in the weeds of scientific points

[@lamcalli7349]

PLEASE clip that incredible rant of Forrest's because that is damn near the most awesome thing I have ever witnessed EVER! ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@chinkasuyaro8983]

Forrest has been averaging one *epic* rant per episode lately.

[@joemiller7082]

Dirk is going with the argument that “people are too dumb to make stuff up…” Wild argument. What an idiot.

[@IRGeamer]

“If you’ll just give up your critical faculties, a world of idiotic bliss can be yours.” - Christopher Hitchens

[@Valkyrie_BookClub]

I just want to say thank you to Promise for voicing that it is ok if your deconstruction is as quick as asking yourself if you even believe. Mine was very similar. A couple months of honestly allowing myself to ask questions and it was done for me.

[@evarinagarmguardian113]

HOLY SHIT FORREST!!!!!! I'm atheist and your rant at the end shook me to my core! I'm convinced that if I were still a believer, I'd have stopped being one after hearing you! That was GOOOOOOOOOOD!

[@MorrigansRaven3944]

💯💯

[@3dge--runner]

Forrest that final rant was absolutely epic. One of the best I've ever heard from you. Remember the gnostics believed that the god of the Bible was the demiurge a false god And that we we're beings of light that were trapped in three-dimensional space by him. Got voted out of the Consul of nicaea though

[@herbieshine1312]

For a guy on the run from the FBI he did a good job! He was magnificent

[@bobp5904]

'"THE VALKAI VOLLEY"!

[@EmpressLizard81]

​@@bobp5904 "Forrest Fire." 😊

[@Tyrannimarja]

Behind Eve there’s Promise. Poetic and beautiful. ❤

[@jayhei869]

Aneesh calls with the same argument every time. It's like he is just going to repeat his argument until the hosts say "OMG, you're right. There must be a God". Even though that will never happen and his argument had been debunked numerous times

[@doggysaywhat88]

He's just using the the Kalam cosmological argument with something other than the word "cause". I kind of get tired of hearing those types of arguments because the person making them usually doesn't realize that argument has been used previously and dismissed. It also shows laziness of the person making it because a simple google search or wikipedia page will give you the counters to the argument pretty easily.

[@gottachop]

🔥The hosts were on fire tonight!🔥 This may be my new favorite episode.

[@gottachop]

I too watched the show when Tracie Harris was on. I also watched Dave W. They were great and I miss hearing from them. Forrest and Promise did an amazing job. I’m definitely rewatching this episode 😊

[@fmdj]

I love that Promise is using her real name now (have I understood this correctly?), it is very poetic and beautifully ironic for an atheist. Religious people are the ones who keep promising stuff that we all know is never going to happen. On the other hand Promise invites us to think of what is true: that nothing whatsoever is promised to us devilish heathens. We have to build the world we want to live in cuz that's the only one we'll ever get to experience. There's no promised land, never was, never will be. Death is final. So let's not promise anything and actually do something instead of sitting around waiting for a lie to come true. Edit: this is in no way a criticism of "Eve was framed", it is/was quite nice and quite smart too.

[@TheKiroshi]

Yeah. her name is Promise. She's talked about it and how she just wants to own it, it's her name afterall so she makes it what she wants it to be, despite the whole religious start. I will say, "promise joy" is a *very* cringy name, but I am proud of her for making it hers.

[@AndrewDalgliesh]

I think it's a credit to everyone associated with The Line and this community that she feels safe to use it, especially in these troubled times.

[@fmdj]

@@TheKiroshi somewhat cringy but I don't disapprove

[@fmdj]

@@AndrewDalgliesh also a nice way to view it, it's likely yes, good.

[@fmdj]

@@AndrewDalgliesh omg, I don't remember what I had replied to you but I remember I had, and it's gone. I'm pretty sure it wasn't controversial nor offensive to anyone. AI-enforced censorship on this platform is *very* worrying imho. I would be surprised if this here comment went through, but let's see...

[@Arcaneangel1393]

I love how Adam stats basically (to use a Forrest analogy) "You can show me that a someone can take 1 step and that can get you 5 miles down the road by doing it a bunch but the subject must have teleported randomly to the spot we started measuring from" as if THAT'S the most logical explanation instead of "those steps could've gotten us here too"

[@colaboytje]

The talk with Adam was great. The Promise-Forrest team was in full effect and it was beautifull to listen to. Bravo.

[@craaab____721]

I wish all teachers had the same passion for knowledge and learning as Forrest does🧬

[@SapphicBibliophile]

The way Forrest talked about the Big Bang, abiogenesis, and evolution all fast with a great visual overview made my ADHD brain VERY happy.

[@charliecarrot]

Dirk is the type of person I would hate to be stuck in a conversation with. He can't follow a logical train of thought to save his life.

[@kentonbaird1723]

I expect many people think that way about him, and he has no friends as a result; why else would he keep calling in?

[@patrickwhite4412]

Was dirks argument honestly “if you get rid of all of your evidence, you’d have no evidence!”???

[@Never-mind1960]

Adam - "God is incomprehensible, now listen while I tell you all about him."

[@simonl1135]

Can't tell if it's a trollfest or one guy with a voice changer that has been haunting the shows for at least two months now (you can tell some patterns). Aneesh and John both should really listen to not just what the hosts are saying in reply to them, but also what they're saying themsleves, because they are repeat callers that also repeat basically the same thing every time.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

It's the same guy with the voice changer

[@solly119119]

Generally I agree, but with John - OH I think he's also probably earnest. He's clearly elderly, and instead of being dishonest (meaning outright lying) he's at a point where he struggles to understand concepts and forgets things said to him only minutes before. His religious indoctrination is part of that yeah, but I think mentally he's not equipped for conversations like this.

[@wonkydonk9073]

It's the same guy, they all have the same mannerisms - very brief, simple responses and similar intonations. A voice changer can't hide that.

[@medalion1390]

I'm so sick of this current trend of people calling in using voice changers because not only is it super obvious, it also sounds like hot garbage.

[@EmpressLizard81]

There was one on the After Dark show that was the most auto-tuned hot mess you've ever heard in your life, and had the audacity to say it wasn't a voice changer. But this person can't string more than 3 words together, so they're obviously young and haven't learned how to hold an actual conversation. They're stuck in troll mentality.

[@medalion1390]

@ Even from a trolling perspective it doesn’t make sense to me. If these callers really are theists then all they’re doing is making their religion and it’s followers look stupid.

[@ardiberen]

@@medalion1390I think they just lie about being a theist when asked point blank. They’re probably just atheist trolls

[@CH-in9kj]

And they never say anything of substance, it’s always just pointless drivel and trolling.

[@nicholassingleton7496]

Dirk and John’s inability or unwillingness to follow logical trains of thought, and grasping the simplest of concepts are astonishing. No wonder they are so prone to believing in nonsense.

[@chinkasuyaro8983]

I wish the hosts had pressed a little harder about what brand and flavor of pudding the proof can be found in.

[@spookyariel1]

His reverse racism bit was beyond stupid. Sometimes I wish more POC was on the show to call these folk out for his BS with that.

[@bodricthered]

What never gets old for me is that we live on a planet where there's dozens of different eye designs, most of them better than ours at something like a kawk with distance and some like the octopus that are better at everything in every way.... like this isn't even an argument from ignorance, it's an argument from NAH NAH NAH NAH CAN'T HEAR YOU......

[@cgfamorcan9809]

Adam as a pastor is Lukewarm. I love it when Forrest use his dogma against him at the end.

[@gerrye114]

I remember Dirks call! He's the guy who thinks Stargate is a documentary

[@MorrigansRaven3944]

I'm so happy you're using your true name, Promise!! Beautiful name.⚘💯🤟

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

If there is a question about alien beaver, Captain Kirk would be the one to ask.

[@RaineInChaos]

And here they only had Captain Dirk to ask

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

​@@RaineInChaosTouche

[@polcommwatcher]

you and Raine --lol

[@Dayna-cd3zj]

His specialty is green beavers.

[@matthewthomas4620]

Forest and Promise make an excellent pair of hosts.

[@valeriewilliams9562]

Rock, Paper, Scissors was an excellent illustration. Aneesh doesn’t sound like a stupid person but he just can’t accept that his reasoning is flawed. I hope he goes back and listens to this

[@Big74Mike2012]

@ 2:48:26 After listening to countless atheist shows/episodes on KZbin for the past 12+ years, this is EASILY the most brilliant rant I've ever heard on ANY of The Line videos, on any of the AXP videos, on any KZbin atheist videos PERIOD!!! Forrest absolutely NAILED this poor bastard's theology to the wall and spanked it's little disgusting poop-covered bottom for the whole world to see!!! For his brain to so seamlessly string that entire tangent together in such a concise & easily understood way and then to "watch" that delusional religious person immediately start squirming when confronted with such a brilliant point shows that Forrest is indeed a genius and I am in AWE, sir!! I hope every other host takes a similar point into every call with a theist just to show everyone watching how easy it is to dismantle their entire worldview!! Absolutely incredible!!

[@Mmmmilo]

2:13:19 it’s no surprise that an ordained minister who dropped out of college has a 1970s toddler’s understanding of biology and cosmology. Wow.

[@mariesmit5778]

I could not have said it better! 👍

[@shodan6401]

Good show. I genuinely enjoyed Forrest this time, which was a great turn of events. That's like, the second time now, so perhaps he's settling in to his role on the show more now, and that is always welcome. He's a good guy with a great big heart, and I love seeing him get better and better. Eve, she's just amazing AF...

[@emhoj97]

Always a pleasure to hear from you Emma Grace ❤ You're very thoughtful and curious and that obviously serves you well 😊

[@IRGeamer]

It is so comforting to know that there actually are some theists that put compassion, reason and verifiable reality over their "faith".

[@Torthetamebadger]

John at ca 01:30 Insinuating you get addicted to alcohol or drugs if you are an atheist. Well here in Sweden 80% of the population are atheists, butvwe have one of the lowest alcoholism in the world.

[@JohnSimmons-o2v]

It's sad that Hitchens alcoholism led to his esophageal cancer. But Hitchens didn't want to believe GOD was Good. He thought he knew more than GOD.

[@Torthetamebadger]

@JohnSimmons-o2v How can a genocidal god be good?

[@mollymalone6941]

@@JohnSimmons-o2v The thing is that Hitchens actually read the Bible and reached the conclusion that a God who drowns the world as a "start over" for humanity, sends bears to slaughter children, turns Lots wife into salt, orders his underlings to kill their own children, condones slavery, etc. , is not a good God or even a God worthy of worship. Hitchens did not think that he knew more than God, he simply did not believe that that god was real, along with all other gods that man has believed in.

[@botarakutabi1199]

@@JohnSimmons-o2v How can someone think they know more than something they think doesn't exist? I guess things that don't exist can't know anything, so of course I would know more than that by literally knowing anything at all.

[@JohnSimmons-o2v]

Hitchens Thoughts led him Astray. Seems to be a common occurrence.

[@MizzouRah78]

Adam had the stones to criticize science and evolution, but ultimately admitted he relies on faith for his beliefs and won't bother trying to defend his position. What a bizarre philosophy and complete waste of time. Side note: Forrest and Promise make a phenomenal hosting team. I absolutely love them both and even more so together. I've mostly grown tired of Matt's rude and condescending approach. He treats most calls as if he's being personally attacked and has zero patience. Hosts like Forrest and Promise set the bar, in my opinion.

[@BlueberryHobbit]

Truly epic rant from Forrest at the end

[@mollymalone6941]

The line should either refuse to take a call from someone using an obvious voice changer or ban the caller completely.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Can't ban if they use a VPN as many do

[@herbieshine1312]

What is the point of using a voice changer? Is it callers who have been banned and use it to get through screening?

[@Where_is_Waldo]

Right? How strong does the christian persecution complex have to be to elect christian theocratic fascism and still be afraid of the atheist boogie man they made up for themselves to fear?

[@RichWoods23]

They probably don't want to go into work on Monday morning only for one of their colleagues to call out, "Hey, were you the twat who talked bollocks on KZbin for twenty minutes yesterday? It sounded exactly like you."

[@karlwiggins]

I am convinced the voice changer caller is the same one over and over - as they have repeated the same Catholic basis of beliefs and always have really short and trollish non-sequitur answers to questions.

[@Nocturnalux]

@@karlwigginsI am almost certain it is the same person as well.

[@herbieshine1312]

@@karlwiggins from what the hosts say as well, it does seem to be.

[@MonkeyAtTypewriter]

1:46:07 John's failure to understand this question is why religion persists.

[@destronia123]

"John" = 100% troll.

[@MonkeyAtTypewriter]

He's called before, and I dunno. I've met people like this. Poe's law is real y'all

[@chrisgrill6302]

I don't think he was a troll, if he is he is a master at playing very stupid.

[@jamietodd2560]

1:27:50 Being able to create your own purpose is a lot like having a passion project to which you devote your time and energy and enlivens your life and allows you to learn new things and expand your horizons. You do it because it makes you happy. Then a theist says your passion is empty and it should be serving a higher "ultimate" purpose. It's like when someone tells you to turn your passion into a "side hustle" and make money off of it, but you know that if you do you'll no longer do it from happiness but from personal gain and it becomes empty and joyless.

[@PamiShoodrani]

Frank, D.C. is another caller who has made the rounds on _The Line_ shows under multiple different names. He has a tell-tale sign which is recognizable every time. I won't say what it is because a) I'm interested if anyone else has picked it up yet, and b) I don't want him to know what it is, in case he's reading comments.

[@Locust13]

Forest jokingly asked Dirk who taught the beavers how to build dams, and a Dirk unironically replied "aliens" I know people get their hackles up sometimes about certain language on the internet but some people just need the cold water of "dude, you're an idiot" thrown in their face.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Someone should have asked him, "OK. Who taught the aliens?". If an alien species can acquire knowledge on its own then so can we.

[@mactallica9293]

​@@ScottJohnson-z5s Aliens

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

​@@mactallica9293Nah. Infinite regress.

[@Jamnik06]

Dirk's prior call was 04.27.24 Cus I Wanna w. Jimmy & Eve at 01:31:29

[@Where_is_Waldo]

When he said Jimmy kept interrupting him I was like "So you're saying you're an ass?"

[@braddittner]

Yeah. I remember him. Annoying. I think he calls in under other names from time to time.

[@diewithavengeance]

He really thought she would remember his call from 8 months ago??? Do people even think before they call in?

[@grumpyoldman6503]

​@diewithavengeance perspective is lacking and main character syndrome is a thing.

[@Bas-TB]

Dirk, why would we build an authentic pyramid? Those things have almost no functional space. Although large it would be all that impressive, as they would just be imitations of the culturally & historically significant originals. I was first thinking adding a modern pyramid close to Giza depicting how the others looked in their glory days, would be great. But that look can be achieved with modern means so it will be more of a building than stacked blocks, a museum building perhaps. Although the original look wouldn’t allow for windows so a cinema might be better. The only reason to do this is from a documentary perspective. So Dirk by all means kickstart this by finding a Pharaoh looking to spend big on his tomb.

[@zen-sean]

Your comment made me think for the first time “what if the pyramids we see now are just recreations of even older ones that dissolved away No evidence for it but the mystery behind them will continue to baffle our descendants which is neat

[@Bas-TB]

@@marcosolo6491You’re definitely right. But now I need all countries to have Buckingham-Penta-pyramids

[@zenithquasar9623]

Promise, you are just amazing!

[@lostexplorersguild767]

Great show! Thanks @The Line

[@kathyheyne6030]

50:19 The look on Promise’s face when Frank said “We’ve never seen an eye evolving in a lab” and “Science should be repeatable”. 😂

[@Where_is_Waldo]

2:00:43 Adam was the least annoying call. He was dishonest with himself but not an actual troll. Edit: I forgot about Emma Grace, she's always nice to hear from. There were a lot of trolls on this time.

[@MonkeyAtTypewriter]

I was about to defend Emma Grace's honor. But yeah. Honestly John was the worst call, and he's, near as I can tell, "genuine". Like, dude is radically dishonest, but I believe he's honestly incapable of any deeper or more honest thoughts.

[@jamesrath5206]

Emma Grace is in a whole different class than the rest of the callers...

[@illuzion30]

@1:20:56: Just imagine a teenager in frame being scolded (offscreen voice) and when he responds "I learned it from you!", it cuts to a shocked Grey alien 🤣

[@544325]

For the dirk call, Miniminute man does a lot of videos on debunking suedo archeology

[@Ungragu]

yeah, methinks Dirk has been watching too much Hancock and Zieba

[@phillipporter4642]

Best duo on the line!!

[@blackhelm5773]

And once again, Aneesh gives another example of how Islamic apologists are probably the worst type of apologists in the world. Its truly pathetic how bad they are at defending anything.

[@TheodoreDiep]

They are so used to enforce their religion by blood that they fail to keep up with their fellow Christian apologists, although I would argue that the latter aren't that much better.

[@gornser]

I don't think they are worse at their core. They are just not used to a lot of resistance and so they have less confusing fluff in place.

[@TheLevantin]

“but... but... Look at the trees!”

[@lelitu]

I love the term Everlasting Thoughtstopper. I'm gonna steal that

[@tylerdurden783]

John is super consistent in the fact that nothing the hosts ever say registers with him as anything other than white noise. He does not process or engage with ANYTHING presented to him. He does this on every 👏single 👏call👏 Analogy John call -- John: "You don't like peanut butter, why is that?" Forrest : "No, I do like peanut butter." John: "So, do you think you not liking peanut butter is the cause of X?"

[@A-L0neDrow]

Good stream. Great job Promise and Forrest

[@vincehawthorne3155]

JFC. Lot of low-level theists and trolls tonight (except Emma who was absolutely pleasant) Surely we haven't reached the bottom of the barrel of theists, have we?

[@boblangford5514]

Not yet, but the bar gets lower every day. Listen to the theist callers on AXP from 2006-2014. They are so much more open minded and less trolly. Today, the brighter theists don’t call in. They have learned their arguments are not valid nor sound. Only idiots who think they are smart call in.

[@WaysToHuman]

I was surprised too! 2 of the best hosts on the line and mostly trolls, what a waste of their valuable time.

[@Bas-TB]

They kinda have to be to call in. The smart, honest and well prepared theist will watch a couple of episodes and figure out the points they would have made have been addressed by the hosts numerous of times. They might not agree with how it was addressed, but in general the points were discussed in honest in away not conflicting with that hosts other views.

[@winstonjen5360]

It could be worse. WLC and/or Alvin Planting a or Frank Turek might call in.

[@RichWoods23]

@@winstonjen5360 I hope not. Frank Turek murders brain cells.

[@elizabethmcmahan2065]

Forrest should try his hand at standup comedy! He is so funny and I could listen to him talk and make jokes for hours! 😂

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

I could see it, "Hello! It's good to be here in....uh... Constipated Aardvark. I just flew in. Glob are my arms tired...."

[@ryandean5941]

Adam's position is even worse than just God punishing us for doing what it knew we would do. Adam believes in a God that could have created me any way that it wanted but chose to create me as a sinner. Not only did God know that I would commit every sin that I commit, but it could have created me exactly the same as I am just with the ability to resist all of those temptations. There is no free will with a tri-omni god. A tri-omni god is the author of all sin and punishes people for the way that it chose to make them.

[@cutiejimmybaIIs]

the closest thing i've seen to the god of the bible was my (now deceased) pet cockatiel, she had all the wrath of the old testament on a bad day and all the "love thy neighbor" on a good one. i think she was bird jesus.

[@PamiShoodrani]

33:45 When I tried to play _Rock, Paper, Scissors_ with my dad, it was brief because he added a fourth element, dynamite, indicated as a thumbs-up hand gesture, which he said destroyed the scissors, the paper, _and_ the rock.

[@AK-_-47SH]

We kind of feel bad for Adam because he suffers from PTSD, but he also had a slight arrogant tone about his beliefs. I think that maybe they were a little hard on him with how they handled his pascals wager but at the end of the day promise made a good point, that might save a lot of people from wasting their time with Christianity.

[@RichWoods23]

I struggle to imagine Adam ever having a successful career as a theoretical physicist. It's tragic that anyone should have their education derailed by illness, but maybe in his case it was for the best.

[@Sejl]

And John again wins gold medal in mental gymnastics. Well done 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@Porkproducts]

Every time John calls I wish the hosts would not take his bait of simple questions without a real point taken. He always does this every call. He can only function if he's leading them into obscurity. The second he's asked to take a position, or say ANYTHING, he reveals himself to be completely inept and useless in conversation. He quite simply has nothing to say of any substance. He only wants to float ideas as if he's "just asking questions", and is too cowardly to say claims, like "I believe that Hitchens was an alcoholic because of his atheism." It would get to the point so much quicker than having the hosts rehash their general thoughts on the purpose of life or whatever, which is old ground for most regular listeners (which is fine), but that's completely beside the point for John's specific subject.

[@swcou]

I agree, John is really dishonest but tries to hides that behind acting polite and jut asking questions. As you said, that way he doesn't have to make direct claims to avoid try to defending them. And his questions seems to me his way of trying to search for an answer that he can use to pin down some label on atheists. I remember a previous call where he asked the hosts about many things about the line because he wanted to imply the line was a cult, but similar to this call, never actually saying that out loud to avoid being confronted directly.

[@BoneySkylord]

Dirk: “I’m gonna set a new standard of silliness.” John: “Well….challenge accepted…” 🤪

[@shawn223]

Fun show despite the trolls.

[@EliteTrainerKenway]

Jesus Christ, Frank should never be anywhere near a jury bench 😂😂😂😂

[@djayjp]

"Subjective evidence" is literally an oxymoron... 🤦

[@jeepspeedracer]

I'm always impressed with the hosts understanding English as a second language people, it might be they have better audio than what is broadcast but all I hear most the time from someone like Aneesh is bubidy bidy be bo bada.

[@gornser]

Every argument of Aneesh so far has been contingent on equation fallacy. It's exhausting and unconvincing

[@gornser]

And he NEVER listens really but always just falls back on his fallacious scripts

[@BoldRam]

Episode by episode Forrest is becoming an immoveable force for science and free thought. If one was to make a Valkai cocktail it would have to have a pich of Nye and Degrasse, an ounce of Hitchens, a brash of Dillahunty and a big sprinkle of Einstein and Socrates. Promise was pretty damn impressive again too. This channel really puts together some truly great combos with some supremely talented people. 👌👌

[@nickguy8037]

You are missing some ingredients. There is definitely a touch of Fry in there to add compassion and a little bit of younger Laurie for the slap stick.

[@davidmorris1473]

Emma Grace is going the non- believer very soon! Yeah, Emma Grace, one more!❤❤❤

[@Where_is_Waldo]

I forgot about Emma Grace! Love her!

[@rico4170]

These 2 hosts should have a show together they are amazing i love their dynamic ❤️❤️

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

They just did

[@jeremyarcus-goldberg9543]

To Promise, good luck on all your new projects!

[@timg7627]

2:48:04 Epic rant by Forrest. Bravo 👏 Well done

[@murilohenriqueanzolinicass4829]

Nice show guys! Unfortunately we still lack any evidence for gods....more of the same again hahahaha.

[@MrCanis4]

Aneesh. “I am limited in the knowledge of the Universe, therefore My god”. Haven't we heard that so many times already?

[@RaineInChaos]

Dirk’s book is by “Relayer Cosmidian” which is totally not his own pen name and it doesn’t even have a single Amazon review

[@PeterChanorias]

Just to add because it was hard to make out on the call - the book literally has the words. Space. Wolf. Tranquility. in the title. ..and it's almost 500 pages!?!?

[@djayjp]

No but it's real because there's a book, see: 📖

[@Nocturnalux]

@@djayjpI am SOLD!

[@Mmmmilo]

It’s him, he has a hilariously bad KZbin channel as well: Dirk Jensen. He’s completely delusional.

[@RaineInChaos]

@@djayjp How could people come up with it if it’s not real? You can find all the answers in The Lord of The Rings.

[@Thisb8g]

AND XP and Matt really help in the early stages of me leaving religion

[@polcommwatcher]

The cute little beaver aliens! I wanna hear about them! Right now! LOL

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Manic Beaver Dream Alien

[@Nocturnalux]

I am a little beaver alien! Don’t believe me? Well, can you prove I’m not?! QED.

[@MonkeyAtTypewriter]

I just imagine a Gray, but shorter and with a skinny, smooth little beaver tail. Landing in a flying dam.

[@Muhluri]

The conversation with Emma was great!

[@vincehawthorne3155]

Forrest. I get you kept on the [same exact] troll because they have an argument you hear from other people who actually do believe in it. My issue with that is that they are not earnest and sincere enough to actually defend that point. They just want to be caricatures of those theists that actually do believe in it and can make a "stronger" case for it than someone who is just actually trying to waste time. That's why I have a big issue with keeping these trolls on. Giving them a platform to say stupid shit when that time can be used for people who will earnestly defend that same point or for theists that actually give a shit in honestly defending their beliefs and not these half-baked trolls. In a way, I feel it's a bit irresponsible to keep having them show their asses over and over again and have them present strawman arguments for it. It feels like weak fodder, even for a clip or a teaching lesson. But also, it's like "Oh! They're just going to use me for a clip even though I'm anonymous and won't hang up on me immediately. I can use that time to sound ridiculous and stupid for my own personal amusement and waste everyone's time. And if they hang up on me? No biggie! I'll call in on a different IP and voice and do it again, since they won't hang up on me immediately, and I can single-handedly waste the entire show." In a way, it's encouraging these trolls to call in if they can get an inch of time. I genuinely think giving trolls too much air time is not totally productive IMO but I get that there are probably other reasons to keep em on. I just hate that The Line is just giving a pass for these low-effort phonies that aren't serious and will just make shit up on the spot. Also must be a fucking sad life that one dude has to use to call in and act like a moron over and over again. He doesn't even seem to be enjoying it too much. Does he really not have anything exciting going on in his life other than to make prank calls and look like a moron in front of a large audience? Kind of pathetic tbh

[@vincehawthorne3155]

To add on a bit further. I'm not even sure if this is even an effective teaching method for people who even share this belief as they can just fall back on, "Oh, well... That guy wasn't a good representative of what I believe or the arguments that I'd heard from serious apologetics." Shoot, they might think he's a stupid atheist trying to make Christians look bad, and that will reaffirm their faith. It's a watered down representation at best and a strawman at worst. I just don't see the value of keeping a troll on to do a shit job of representing apologetics when you can get serious callers to earnestly do that. Fuck. I can get on the show and lie about being a theist and poorly represent theism in a shitty light, but that's not going to do anyone any good. Let's please get serious callers who will seriously defend their shit and not keep these blatantly obvious trolls on for too long. It's bad enough giving them the airtime the one time but TWO TIMES? Last time you allowed the same troll on THREE TIMES! C'mon. What are we doing here? Are we going to platform him four times now? It was bad enough with Jackie doing this, calling every single day, and he was genuine (albeit he was awful). We don't need to give that two-to-three times to someone obviously wasting time and obviously not serious. This is why I'm glad Jimmy just simply canned that chump when he tried to pull the same shit twice with them tonight. Knowing him, this is probably what he wants anyways. To see people upset in the chat and in the comments. Congrats, champ on being even more of pathetic than I thought possible if that's the case lmfao

[@vincehawthorne3155]

A question to you, Forrest. Would it be alright with you personally if I called in when you're a co-host as a (fake) theist and present bad theist arguments and not engage properly? If the answer is no, then why is it allowable for a troll to do the same? You knew he was a troll at some point in the call but allowed him to continue anyways. Is it because he self reported as a theist, so there might be some hope of him being real, instead of possibly being an atheist troll? I apologize if I'm bagging on you badly about this, since I have immense respect for you and you're one of my favorite people on The Line. But I genuinely hate it when you allow these guys to come on the show and be complete awful.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

21:00 so inspiring to hear Forests' wife's deconstruction journey. if all the other religions are fake, it just takes a little introspection

[@braddittner]

It bums me out that my vote counts just as much as John's vote.

[@Nocturnalux]

Depending on where you both live, his may be worth more…!

[@grumpyoldman6503]

Ya, the problem of tolerance and democracy. Advocate for civic virtue and critical thinking in primary education. Probably ought to ban homeschooling as well, while we are at it.

[@oliverthompson9922]

Dirk's assertion that people "can't just come up with something" was wild. 😂

[@autishd]

Aneesh's argument is just a rehashing of Kalam and is just as specious.

[@13shadowwolf]

The fact that the Kalam can be used to argue for completely contradictory god claims, proves that the Kalam is absolutely useless garbage. The Kalam is equally valid to argue for a trickster demon that is manipulating all theists into giving up their souls by having false beliefs. Which means that the Kalam can be used to argue for atheism being "correct"

[@robbutler429]

My dumb ass GENUINELY thought ”wow, this Promise chick looks *SO* much like Eve! I genuinely don't know how my genes made this far

[@user-sw7my6kp7g]

I still miss Mr. Hitchens.

[@kathyheyne6030]

1:25:29 if Christopher Hitchens alcoholism came from anywhere, it was from being a journalist at a time drinking like fish was an industry requirement. Several journalists who survived that era have written and spoken about the journalism culture of the time. All of them have said they’re pleased those days are gone.

[@CJFromMisery]

I’m just commenting for brownie algorithmic points. 👍

[@TheStupendousMusicMan]

If - according to Adam the minister of God - Satan has contorted and muddled Christianity into so many denominations, cults, factions, cliques, coteries, churches, branches, clans, orders, religions, etc. how does Adam know he's in the only one true real one?🤔 Could it be possible that he has been befuddled as well? There you go Adam, when one's being deceived one doesn't know one's being deceived.

[@trustjah]

Dirk - You have shown theoretically that it can be done, but aliens

[@grumpyoldman6503]

Just like in biology and nature... there is a lot of weird and unexplained shit we at times observe, but do not yet understand. Jumping to a quasi-magical (aliens!) conclusion as a candidate explaination (even if ultimately grounded in physical reality, but just as unfalsifiable as magic as the "explanation" just by proxy) is just **slightly** less ridiculous as religion/supernatural presupposition. And only because it seems reasonable that somewhere out there, other beings more than likely have or will exist- it's a big universe in space and time, but that cuts both ways.

[@trustjah]

@@grumpyoldman6503 Alien life almost certainly exists. Their intentional and successful travel to Earth seems unlikely. And their seeding intelligence here very unlikely. The false biblical history of Egypt where Jewish slaves built the pyramids is still more likely than aliens.

[@trustjah]

​@@grumpyoldman6503 Alien life almost certainly exists. Their intentional and successful travel to Earth seems less likely. And their seeding intelligence here very unlikely. The false biblical history of Egypt where slaves built the pyramids is still more likely than aliens.

[@trustjah]

​ @grumpyoldman6503 Alien life almost certainly exists. Their intentional and successful travel to Earth is less likely. And their seeding intelligence here very unlikely. The disproven biblical history of Egypt where slaves built the pyramids is still more likely than aliens IMO.

[@chrisgrill6302]

Every pseudoarchaeologist I ever interacted with seems to be batshit insane, I mean seriously mentally ill.

[@macdougdoug]

26:56 Aneesh (he/him) - Theist | The rebuttal from Scissors/paper/stone is like Gandalf and his sword "thou shalt not pass!" - unless you're a pigeon or a Balrog

[@jasongreen3434]

Forest,the defeat in asshat Adam's voice at the very end of the call makes me sleep better every night. Great work y'all!

[@WorldOfAcala]

So much bugged me about Adam, but the fact that he couldn't just say bye annoyed me the most.

[@irwinshung809]

Yeah, he did get more and more passive aggressive as the conversation progressed.