WHERE is the Proof of God?! Call Forrest Valkai & Skeptical Heretic | SkepTalk 12.09.24

[@FaiaHalo]

Power duo tonight!! Much love to everyone reading this and who is always so kind in replies

[@FaiaHalo]

4:21:31 And I got another SO from Forrest

[@sergei_mikhailovich]

Thanks, Faia, you're the absolute GOAT! ❤

[@Marko_Ilic]

Thank you Faia! I'm very happy to see"The Line" finally noticing your much appreciated effort!

[@TheistsTapOut]

​@@FaiaHalo Glad that they recognize your hard work.

[@DJxTimeKilleravpe]

❤

[@herbieshine1312]

Faia getting a second Forrest mention in 2 days. Totally justified. All hail Faia

[@FaiaHalo]

Do you have the TS of that (funnily enough)? I still didn't end mine 🥺 edit: nvm I found it 😭 Best week ever!! ❤🎉

[@Sejl]

Hail Faia!

[@shanewilson7994]

@@FaiaHalo I'm so glad you get the recognition from Forrest, while I understand why the Line doesn't do them, I and everyone else does appreciate your work so much.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

2nd that🍻

[@bodricpriest8816]

Hail Faia

[@iconifyme]

Forest/Heretic: You cannot stop believing by choice right? Keving: Right. Forest/Heretic: So I can't just believe by choice? Kevin: But that's your choice. AAAAAARGH!

[@bodricpriest8816]

Such a clear softball, so beautifully laid up.... Clonk, bounces off the indoctrination... indeed, AAAARRGH

[@infinite_array]

It's the fucking Man Ray meme.

[@ritae5316]

Can I seriously request for us to dissect me when I die? I'd be down for that!

[@manwithadronespain]

For a moment I felt sorry for Kevin. He's really wrestling with his indoctrination

[@ejflor1313]

@@manwithadronespainhe’s not wrestling at all. He’s really fine with it if you listen to his call. He doesn’t give a flying f

[@robertbobby400]

It's clear that Kevin wasn't prepared to have this conversation. He's never critically thought about his beliefs, and is afraid to do so.

[@casparuskruger4807]

The perfect perfect summing up of Kevin's call.

[@deetheoriginal3117]

There’s nothing more ironic than Matthew saying “we should seek truth” while also dismissing scientific evidence bc it doesn’t align with his beliefs and claims.

[@loki2240]

Well, he played with the definition of "truth," making it include "being true to someone or something." So, he could say he's being true to God, Jesus, Christianity, his personal religious beliefs, or whatever he feels like in the moment.

[@ezerasurfr]

Matthew was insufferable. I don't know why they kept him on for so long.

[@13SScorpio]

Anyone who isn't of his opinion has an agenda and isn't sincerely seeking the truth - he is basically a conspiracy theorist.

[@scotthoenle7693]

"Woke is when a movie is too liberal for saudi Arabia." Amazeballs.

[@TheRealBrit]

Yeah, I mean if this guy thinks anything Saudi Arabia doesn't like is woke maybe he should move there but I'm pretty sure they don't like Christians either. So I guess Mathew is also woke by his definition.

[@medalion1390]

I remember back when that remake of Red Dawn was in production. They decided to update the villains from the Soviet Union to the CCP, but when the Chinese government got wind of this they threatened to outright blacklist the studio, meaning that they wouldn’t permit _any_ movie of theirs to get a Chinese release. So the studio instead went ahead and digitally replaced all the flags and insignia with North Korean versions and changed the movie to appease the CCP. Like Forrest said, this kind of thing is literally just Capitalism.

[@QuarkLeptonTheOriginalRecipe]

Matthew does not seem capable of having a conversation. He pretends to be listening but then he dismisses any rebuttal even from his own holy book . Forrest, you have an incredible amount of patience. Great show! Your guest was a fantastic addition. I hope to see her again soon.

[@richardw7665]

I don't understand why the metric for the truth of a religion is specifically that point which he believes is a prophecy, I was confused when he said find that prophecy in another religion, even without knowing that it is in others! It was a great point about animal extinction, he immediately added other things to make it a justifiable prophecy, and he was right to, but doesn't believe his own should be subject to the same standard.

[@gornser]

He was being incredible smug and self-assured. And a total ass about it. Also the mask of being a nice and polite person was slipping at times. He's not a good person.

[@Locust13]

Matthew thinks "listening"means saying "uh-huh" every 0.1 second.

[@jeffreyjdesir]

“Mass” (as opposed to weight????) hypocrisy…Jesus this is honestly brain rot as far as demonstrating even something COOL let alone supernatural…like damn.

[@mitchelllion6052]

Mathew attempts to participate with the class BUT DOES NOT FOLLOW DIRECTIONS. Lol

[@NdukaUche]

I love that forrest demanded a definition of woke from Matthew.

[@chrisbova9686]

It means you have substituted truth for signal. Woke was a compliment for about 3 days in American history, insinuating you knew that nothing we've been presented with since birth was fact-based. It was twisted by those notorious for such things into 3 movements which we will call state-goaded-rebellion. This is the reason for their indignance... they are wrong in every conversation they have because of their inherent lie which they tell themselves, with which their concept of existence depends. They are the opposite of smarter of better than anyone. They are an error in the program of life, a virus unaware of their effect.

[@Sejl]

Why are those people so against being woke, and at the same time have no idea what woke is? They just have some vague feeling. Well f. your feeling!

[@NdukaUche]

@ They probably do know what woke is but are embarrassed about what it says about their integrity rather than ours if they use such a label as an insult

[@redflag4781]

​@chrisbova9686 Who is "we"? Generally, I'd advise against long, barely coherent posts.

[@deadpool3982]

Always what I ask of idiots like that, they don’t often seem to know or want to answer

[@ianchisholm5756]

Kevin insisting that Jesus is love, then finishing with a threat: Christianity in a nutshell.

[@TiKallisti]

There is no hate like christian love! 😇😄

[@Pmrace1960]

jesus thought hell real and saw it as a place of eternal torture..........so kevin calling jesus love is not backed by the jesus in the bible...

[@williamstrumfels3305]

Jesus I love you....but don't believe in me and you'll burn in hell..sure sounds like some thing humans would invent

[@jimflannery6335]

I think it's likely that Kevin is they type of Troll who is here to waste time. It's difficult to believe that he is this incapable of following and responding to points the hosts make, but instead just says some random religious nonsense.

[@discontinuedmodel232]

@@jimflannery6335 Indeed, Kevin does seem like he is a parody of the Spinal Tap level of stupid "but OUR amps go to ELEVEN!" Christian. No doubt Kevin would fill your Apologist Bingo card with a quickness given a long enough conversation.

[@tylerdurden783]

Kevin's "I hear you" = "I didn't take in or understand anything you just said"

[@casparuskruger4807]

This seems to be a more common tactic the theists use in situations like this. When the atheist explains something, the theists are constantly agreeing with the atheist and then when the theist talks it has absolutely nothing to do with what the atheist said ( which pretty well addressing and CRUSHING every claim from the theist ) and then the theist continues on as if nothing has been said to him. And the theist have this way of dodging EVERY question they are being asked -- just because the true, honest and OBVIOUS answer exposes their indoctrinated belief for what it is- Which not sometimes, but ALWAYS pure bullshit.

[@tylerdurden783]

@@casparuskruger4807 accurate

[@shanewilson7994]

Skeptical Heretic, great job on the show, you and Forrest were amazing. And you two did an excellent job pointing out how little Kevin has ever thought about his beliefs and all of the immorality that he even admits within it.

[@patrickcollins4948]

All I can do is roll my eyes when Matthew calls 🙄

[@deadpool3982]

He’s so painfully dishonest and stupid

[@Emelefpi]

All I can do is be so very thankful to Faia for posting timestamps whenever Matthew calls

[@katiekins17]

Kevin is doing what I was taught to do in Christian school, preach Jesus’ love. He’s woefully unprepared to actually have these conversations.

[@jimflannery6335]

I think it's likely that Kevin is they type of Troll who is here to waste time. It's difficult to believe that he is this incapable of following and responding to points the hosts make, but instead just says some random religious nonsense.

[@mactallica9293]

Define wokeism Matthew : ideology... ummmm uhhh women sports, Disney land, women in tv. Spiderman had to take woke stuff out for Saudi. Really great stuff

[@loki2240]

And the "anti-woke movement" (or moral panic or whatever it is) has affected the outcomes of elections in the U.S.

[@mactallica9293]

@loki2240 It certainly has. Propaganda and nationalism will always be king. "These trans dems are trying to destroy America, somehow..."

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

Just another round in the never ending rounds of "moral panic". In my life alone there have been video games, heavy metal music, gay people, D&D, transwoman (they don't seem to care about transmen much), drag queens and gay penguins. 🤦

[@helicopterharry5101]

Matthew, there's nothing more ironic than saying truth is the most important thing and everyone should seek it... while also saying we should ignore woke scientists because their positions don't align with your views... while also admitting some people believe the wrong thing because they don't want to change their mind.

[@Pmrace1960]

the man talked in riddles...........

[@MrCanis4]

Brussels Sprouts are Delicious. That is My TRUTH, but I am sure I will be strongly contradicted.

[@13shadowwolf]

​@@MrCanis4The Sprouts from Brussels are the Way to Taste!

[@kainuscorevax3875]

The flavor of brussle sprouts being enjoyable or not is a subjective opinion. Subjective opinions are not "your personal truth." It is true that you have an opinion. Your opinion is not the truth.

[@MrCanis4]

@@kainuscorevax3875 And now turn your theory around. And discover that Objective Truth does not exist.

[@Deadman1000]

Congratulations Matthew, you're by the worst caller with the worst argument on this show. Didn't think it was possible to out stupid the troll callers but you did it

[@soyevquirsefron990]

I agree and also, Jesus prayed on the cross for all his followers to be united. Why would he pray for that if he knew many would not? Also the only options are “many will not follow correctly” or “few will not follow correctly”. If he’d said nobody will follow, nobody would have repeated the story and we wouldn’t know. If he said everyone would follow, then he’d be a much more loving god but he’d be taking away free will or whatever. So that’s not a very specific prophecy if he had a 50/50 chance.

[@robertbobby400]

I don't know, I think Kevin tried as hard as he could to out do him.

[@aders957]

They should have some reward for this shit on the line or something imo

[@FirstLast-lz6cu]

Matthew was surprised that Jesus could have known that his followers would get the religion wrong... has Matthew read the Old Testament? It's pretty much story after story after story of people getting religion wrong and pissing god off because of it. That's one of the most continuous underlying themes.

[@Greg-xi8yx]

What a lazily written comment.

[@Celeste-hl1kw]

My god, Matthew wasted so much air time on such a terribly stupid “prophecy”. No wonder people get suckered by con artists when they’re impressed by something like that.

[@williammiller7908]

No Forrest let him waste so much time. When you ask a new question and the caller circles back around to the beginning without answering the new question then the call needs to end. The caller is not listening and is being dishonest...end the call and move on.

[@cambriaofthevastoceans6721]

​@williammiller7908 at this point, i just skip through his calls. Its all too predictable. Talking over women, vague bigotry, and the worst of theistic arguments. *yawn*

[@RFCEagle]

​@cambriaofthevastoceans6721 Matthew is all about hypocrisy just not in the way he thinks.

[@kellywilliam3708]

I feel like Matthew has been banned from the show like 4 times, he's so painful to listen to and hasnt listened to a thing that any host has said

[@Corporations8MyBaby]

Matthew is a very unskilled pre-sup

[@ryanwalker8843]

It's truly mind boggling how low some people's bar for prophecy is.

[@wj2036]

I'm more boggled by how they're able to be so skeptical about similar prophecies from other religions, but when it comes to the thing they already believe in, yes, they place the bar very low

[@loki2240]

​@@wj2036- It's not just that they already believe their religion - they want to and/or they're afraid not to. So, that influences their thoughts and behavior.

[@Robbie_the_Rabbit]

Matthew: To me, it's more concrete. It's only concrete TO YOU because you already believe Jesus exists and is God. That's the ONLY reason it means anything to you.

[@shadowgophr5269]

"God sacrificed his only son" Nope. Sacrifice would be giving him up utterly. Letting him go forever. At best, he _inconvenienced him for a weekend_.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Yep. Thanos sacrificed more in regards to offspring.

[@MichaelSmith-lm5sl]

Here’s a breakdown of direct caller quotes from the video and the associated logical fallacies: --- 1. **Caller Quote**: _"If religion persists, that means the prophecy is true, and people are just doing it wrong. If religion doesn’t persist, it’s because people were doing it wrong."_ **Fallacy**: **Circular Reasoning** - The claim assumes its conclusion: the prophecy is true regardless of the outcome, making it unfalsifiable. 2. **Caller Quote**: _"Hell isn’t fire and brimstone; it’s separation from God, and that’s worse."_ **Fallacy**: **Appeal to Emotion** - Using fear of existential separation rather than evidence to make the point compelling. 3. **Caller Quote**: _"Jesus must be divine because Christianity survived while other religions didn’t."_ **Fallacy**: **Survivorship Bias** - Ignoring all the failed religions and assuming Christianity’s survival is proof of its truth rather than historical or social factors. 4. **Caller Quote**: _"You’re risking people’s souls by not believing what I do."_ **Fallacy**: **Ad Baculum (Appeal to Fear)** - Using fear of eternal punishment to coerce agreement rather than providing evidence. 5. **Caller Quote**: _"The Bible is true because it predicted certain events, and those predictions came to pass."_ **Fallacy**: **Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc** - Assuming that because a prediction coincides with an event, the Bible caused or foretold it. 6. **Caller Quote**: _"You’re rejecting God because you want to live in sin."_ **Fallacy**: **Ad Hominem** - Attacking the skeptic's character and intentions rather than addressing the validity of their arguments. 7. **Caller Quote**: _"You’re an Edomite because you’re from the same nation as the Romans and Greeks."_ **Fallacy**: **Genetic Fallacy** - Judging someone’s belief or worth based on perceived ancestry rather than their arguments or actions. 8. **Caller Quote**: _"If you can’t disprove my claims about God, they must be true."_ **Fallacy**: **Argument from Ignorance** - Shifting the burden of proof and assuming something is true unless disproven. 9. **Caller Quote**: _"Slavery was justified in the Bible because people sinned."_ **Fallacy**: **Appeal to Tradition** - Justifying slavery by pointing to its acceptance in historical or religious contexts. 10. **Caller Quote**: _"You must accept God’s free gift, or you’re rejecting love."_ **Fallacy**: **False Dichotomy** - Presenting only two options-accepting or rejecting love-when other possibilities (e.g., disbelief due to lack of evidence) exist. --- These examples highlight flawed reasoning and logical errors used during the conversation.

[@albertcombrink3717]

Interesting summary - thanks

[@nilliewelson1927]

keep these up! 👍

[@simonl1135]

Kevin is in a loop. Press any key to restart Kevin.

[@RanEncounter]

Where is any key?

[@simonl1135]

@@RanEncounter That's unfortunately what none of us can figure for the many Kevins of this world...

[@RanEncounter]

@@simonl1135 I found one on Amazon! Maybe Kevin should buy an any key too. 😂

[@jimflannery6335]

I think it's likely that Kevin is they type of Troll who is here to waste time. It's difficult to believe that he is this incapable of following and responding to points the hosts make, but instead just says some random religious nonsense.

[@av6680]

I hope to see more of Skeptical Heretic on here! I've loved her over on TikTok for a long time. Always love to see the crossover of my favorites together!

[@thescreengeek8915]

Forrest is very good at noticing when a call has been going for too long and isn't going anywhere, but he's not good at actually ending that call anytime soon.

[@Kulascus]

True 😂

[@David34981]

He just keeps on going, not because he's lost track of time, but because he wants to just keep on going.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Nobody's perfect

[@TheFullNEWS]

or caring about being interrupted

[@shanewilson7994]

Matthew, the quotes of Jesus, we have no reason to think he actually said any of that. It could be that the person who wrote it wrote it in just to show that the disagreements within Christianity at that moment was going to be normal.

[@loki2240]

Yes! I was so frustrated during the call. I'm 40 minutes in, and the hosts so far have accepted the claim that Jesus existed and made that claim. That text was written decades after the alleged passing of Jesus, and there were already some Christians when it was written. So, the "prophecy" could already be argued to have been "fulfilled" when it was written. From the very beginning of Christianity, different Christians had different beliefs.

[@MrCanis4]

The Aztecs had no idea that was True.

[@markbeoluke6454]

Kevin: "If you really met Jesus, you would filled with terror and begging for forgiveness for your arrogance." Forrest: "Um, no!"

[@RidetheGeoffening]

Matthew = Dunning / Kruger . Always thought he’s the smartest in the room. Consistently wrong.

[@Pmrace1960]

he was so arrogant..............and as you say wrong

[@Emelefpi]

he's not even the smartest in the room when he's alone in the room

[@petermeyer6873]

"Matthew = Dunning / Kruger . Always thought he’s the smartest in the room. Consistently wrong." Hey, hes a believer and we dont know with what other believers he hangs around, so he might infact have been the smartest in the room a couple of times...

[@DuetJay]

Kevin scares the crap out of me. Endlessly polite, and sociopathically irrational.

[@David34981]

He's Canadian, so he's probably culturally conditioned to be polite. Politeness is nice but overrated. Polite people can be absolutely horrible and believe very dangerous things.

[@anarchords1905]

Here in Scotland we have an SNP politician, Mhari Black, who describes being woke as, "Actively trying not to be a dick". I like that.

[@bodricpriest8816]

I LOVE the clarity of Forrest's response to Gilberto's evil, just right straight to the point of 'what you believe is vile and you should stop believing it.' So many proslavery callers get something other than that.

[@robp5469]

Matthew is impressed when a fourth grader who writes that he wants to be a baseball player when he grows up winds up in the MLB

[@loki2240]

"What are the chances that Christianity would take off?" Pretty good when it appealed to enslaved people and other poor people ("Your reward will be great in Heaven) and to the people who oppressed them (because it encouraged the oppressed to accept the oppression and wait for a great reward in an afterlife). And the chances became very good when a Roman Emperor made it the official state religion and then subsequent Christian theocracies imposed on their own people and on those they conquered. To alter your analogy a little - "What are the chances that a 4th grader who wants to play in the NBA would actually go on to play in the NBA?" Pretty good when your father is LeBron James (6'9", one of the best players all-time, one of the most athletic players all-time, and one most cerebral players all-time). And the chances increase when your father is still playing at a high level, when you become eligible for the NBA Draft, and he wants his team to draft you.

[@ThePixel1983]

Matthew, you don't even know what YOU mean by wokism, except maybe "stuff I don't like". Your definition was nonsensical. Also, start understanding the difference meanings of "truth". Mixing them up makes any argument nonsensical.

[@deadpool3982]

He means “stuff that if I actually say is bad I’ll be called a bigot so I say woke instead even though I don’t know what it actually means so I sound like a bigot AND stupid”

[@shanewilson7994]

Yup, so many times when people ask what is woke, they tend to basically mean being a decent human being to others, something that so many Christians avoid doing like they'd hopefully avoid the plague.

[@AntifascistAllDay]

He was talking about NDT schooling (trying to) Maher on trans people, cause both Maher and Mathew are transphobes.😡

[@mrm2946]

Doesn't look like Matthew even knows what truth means or what truth is.

[@jamierichardson7683]

And his phone attempts to pretend he is listening to others shows he likely never will

[@leongkhengneoh6581]

Matthew is so confident with his gullibility

[@paullanoue5228]

Mathew is afraid to make a clear assertion because he knows he will be smoked. So he tap dances around and sneaks in allusions to a god.

[@EdibleFriend05]

They lead Kevin to the point like half a dozen times and every time he just came back to the same platitudes and asked the same questions, just slightly differently. There is insufficient evidence to believe anything in the Bible, and even if you grant that it's true that doesn't mean that the God of the Bible or Jesus are moral people worth following, less worship

[@mattpeters4700]

I think Kevin was a poe.

[@wyldink1]

​@@mattpeters4700That's where I am. He is either a Poe or he's literally never spoken to an atheist or encountered any counter apologetics. And since a Poe is more likely, he's probably a Poe.

[@TheLevantin]

Dwayne is a very confused caller. God is a person and not. God is existence itself, but then not, because God is the good. Hell is non-existence, but you still exist, just without anything good. God is the universe, then he is not the universe and now he is the universe again. You can tell that Dwayne has never thought about what he believes and just makes up what he believes on the spot, which would explain all the contradictions.

[@adamstrum5907]

Saying "god so loves you that he gave his only son to save you from a punishment he decided to create" is equal to me telling my brother I can forgive you but I have to push my child in front of an oncoming train in order to do it. How obscene!!

[@Epke1174]

It's this way bc God is a just judge, just like how in court a judge can't forgive someone and let them go free. They have to pay for their wrongdoings first. In our case Jesus paid our fine. He took our punishment by sacrificing himself. And therefore justice is still served while God is able to forgive our sins

[@carlosdeferrer3585]

@@Epke1174 So job done! Now we can forget all of the BS and get on with our lives and god and jesus can get on with theirs.(judges do not set the entire system up and you are also presumed innocent not guilty to start with and the punishment is finite.)maybe find a better analogy)

[@denverarnold6210]

​@@Epke1174If you think someone else serving your time or paying your fine is still justice, you're not just. Not only that, but this god is also a fan of the worst kind of justice: retributive justice. The sentence is just punishment for punishment's sake. Whereas rehabilitative justice is a means of relearning and prevention of unwanted acts. Which one do you think is the most helpful to the most people, and tell me again how god is loving.

[@Epke1174]

@@denverarnold6210 Your opinion of what is or isn’t just may not be correct (Gods is) and someone can pay for the fine of someone else. That’s a thing in the human justice system too whether you like it or not. And i’m not a criminal psychologist or whatever but he gives us humans responsibility and punishment is the consequence of wrongdoing. Not for no reason, this method helps prevent further unwanted acts too. We’re not toddlers who need our hands held at every step, God is serious and strict, someone who deserves respect and obedience. Failing to do so is sometimes met with the appropriate response period

[@Epke1174]

@@carlosdeferrer3585 Bc i used a human judge as an analogy in a particular regard doesn’t mean it’s the same in every aspect. God is the king and creator of the world, so yeah he can set a justice system up if he’d like. He doesn’t need to presume anything bc guess what. He’s God and already knows everything. He doesn’t need no prosecutor and defendant. And no, we’re not supposed to forget everything and move on with our earthly lives. God is our Lord and father, whom we serve, worship and follow. To live like he wants us to is the best way to live.

[@hansverhaegen8406]

Anyone else that as soon as someone says "wokeism" go: Oh, you're an a-hole. Right, gotcha.

[@Mmmmilo]

I’m still waiting for ANY theist to not come in with ignorance, dishonesty, or both.

[@Torthetamebadger]

Kevin. Can I be honest! When a person starts with that, do they mean they are not honest otherwise?

[@bobmasters9871]

Man Matthew was SPRINTING with those goalposts

[@xmillion1704]

@6:33 I immediately in my head thought of compassion as being higher than truth in some aspects, for me.

[@simay4977]

Matthew was not really listening. He was just waiting to talk.

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

It's his modus operandi

[@Eromatics]

Poor forrest looks miserable while matthew is talking

[@Hayhay_notthechicken]

FORREST YOU WERE ON FIRE WITH TOUR POINTS HERE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 as a saleswoman and ex evangelical, your phrasing and clarity was insane

[@wadeinn463]

Woke is being awakened.. opened your eyes and mind. Sounds good to me. Better than being ignorant and close minded.

[@scottmoore7588]

Kevin's call is literally the one scene in an episode of SpongeBob which is a conversation between Patrick and Man Ray: Man Ray: "Aren't you Patrick Star?" Patrick: "Yup." Man Ray: "And is this your ID?" Patrick: "Yup." Man Ray: "I found this ID in this wallet, and if that's the case, this must be your wallet." Patrick: "That makes sense to me." Man Ray: "Then take it." Patrick: "It's not my wallet!" I've had many conversations with theists that go exactly like this. I'll walk them through exactly how their notion of God is illogical or irrational, they'll usually admit that everything I say makes sense, yet they'll still maintain every single aspect of their belief. This is what we call cognitive dissonance.

[@moistmellow1198]

That’s also every call from Matthew.

[@bodricpriest8816]

Hosts need the Paulogia jingle, 'For the Bible tells me so....' saves time with Matthew and Kevin.

[@robertbobby400]

It's really frustrating to Matthew that Forrest won't follow his script of strawmen. Oh Matthew, "find me a religion that says the same thing" Ok, here's one "well, that religion is a fake one" You're a joke Matthew.

[@Locust13]

*wow, no one could be more obnoxious than Matthew* Dwayne: "hold my sophistry"

[@timsanford5310]

Talking to Mathew is like talking to a curtain rod.

[@shanewilson7994]

Matthew, NDT isn't in hot water at all for anyone who's opinion matters.

[@wj2036]

I think we can all dismiss Matthew's call with the fact that we KNOW its TRUE, that the earliest books of the new testament were written 50-60 years AFTER Jesus supposedly existed. They werent writting these things when there were only a hundred christians. Christiany had already become popular, thats WHY they were writting about it, because it was the hot new religion. They wrote the prophecy after the fact

[@adamstrum5907]

Christianity is true, like Narnia, or Middle earth is true. All 3 appear in books so I guess they are equal as there has never been evidence for any of them.

[@SatansLeadGuitarist]

Dwayne's call did an excellent job of showing how this nonsensical sophistry that Christians just accept without a second thought completely falls apart the second you actually think about it for literally two seconds.

[@michaelh7901]

Kevin or cognitive dissonance, the phone call.

[@cambriaofthevastoceans6721]

Kevin who can't imagine a viewpoint different than his own and gets stuck on repeat

[@paulboston8323]

By the time Matthew's Gospel was written there had already been plenty of time for christianity to develop rival groups. So it's unsurprising that the Gospel would want to denounce 'incorrect' christianity. There really is no need to assume that Jesus himself must have predicted any of this.

[@Sejl]

Matthew is just lazy thinker and plain boring

[@davidwatson8118]

And religiously deluded

[@Sejl]

@@davidwatson8118 That is an uderstatement 😆

[@Locust13]

Matthew kept saying "how could Jesus have known this", how do you know he did? The Gospel according to Matthew was written many many many many many years after Jesus was supposed to have even lived, the things he described were already happening. The author looked at the different sects of Christianity and said "hey Jesus said a lot of people are going to follow me incorrectly". Big deal. It's just another Doomsday rhetoric from a doomsday preacher. Which, by the way, it was about judgment Day and judgment Day hasn't happened yet so you can't say that the prophecy came true.

[@redflag4781]

Kevin's call was PAINFUL

[@mobrocket]

A lot of calls on here are like his It's sad and disturbing that millions of people are like him and get to do things like vote and serve on juries

[@ShadowMan-z3r]

Kevin is the perfect example of why religion is bad for you. It destroys your ability to think using logic and reason. He says Jesus died so our sins can be forgiven, then says sins still exist and we're all sinners and doesn't see how Jesus' sacrifice failed. God didn't even give up anything because Jesus didn't die...he came back to life. This guy is completely unable to understand how this makes absolutely no sense. His mind has been twisted too much. It would be like trying to reason with him why using a spoon to eat soup is better than a fork and he can't understand it. That's sad.

[@adamstrum5907]

Truth is that which is testable, observable, comports with reality, & is falsifiable.

[@VanHalenIsolated]

Matthew, I was unfortunately apart of a cult for approximately 8 months because I didn’t think it was one at first (it was a recovery home for alcoholics and addicts). It was super manipulative and coercive with a central masculine figure whose word was like a god. I pushed myself to be apart of the group and really felt it. Then eventually I saw it for what it was and found out that 95% of the rest of the people felt that way too. I escaped, twice. Meaning I went back a second time. In all cults, including Christianity in my opinion (Jesus being the central figure and its manipulative, coercive, and pronounces that it’s the truth and nothing else is; it’s manipulative and coercive in that if you don’t believe, you’re going to hell), there will always be people who “feel” like they are apart of but the central figure will call these people out as not true followers if they sway even a little. It’s more of a tactic to get them to start following all the rules to a tee, making people feel like, “I’m in trouble if I don’t start following,” or to make the “true followers” feel good about themselves and to continue doing the central figures work.

[@tammyburton8289]

What a top show 🎉

[@rochelebierhalspereira7106]

Ify from Nigeria I see you, too. I live in Brazil and evangelicalism has taken over the country. They have taken most of the seats in Congress and such. People speak in evangelical lingo, even the ones who don't attend church often. Fortunately, my mom has deconstructed with me to the point of leaving church, but she won't talk about it, so I don't have anyone to talk to unless I go online 😅. Here's is me reaching out with love and support to anyone, anywhere going through the same thing.

[@lilcaps]

my prayers for all the scientists lost in selling spider man games to saudi arabia instead of finding the little tiny jesus under their microscope😔😔😔😔😔😔

[@deedrabbit]

Ron Hubbard predicted he'd become rich if he founded his own religion. He did therefore Scientology is true!

[@Pmrace1960]

people like frank turek william lane craig sean mcdowell his dad greg koukl.lee strobbel are all multi millionaires many times over..........these people are grifters who probably deep down dont believe...

[@mactallica9293]

Why did Jesus have to die Kevin:um cause he loves you. What?? This world view is so insane

[@Coreyallen70]

Kevin really hurts me inside to listen to. As a former christian / minister I can see the damage I did teaching so many kids for so many years......😢 I made people like Kevin for over a decade.... I feel so much for him.

[@ericcarter5590]

Matthew, consider this - the most successful religions include those phrases and concepts that help the believers excuse other's non-belief. Christianity itself uses other's non-belief to strengthen that of the believers. There are verses about 'only the fool denies' and 'written on our hearts' and 'every knee shall bow.' All of these are NOT proof that the religion is true, but that the religious text was massaged into as useful a tool as possible to win and keep converts. When you understand religion is just a business, then it ALL makes a LOT more sense.

[@loki2240]

25% off on Good Friday...

[@burkhartonline]

The truth is what the facts are.

[@Sejl]

People like Kevin seriously scares me

[@Kulascus]

It was such a sad call. He threw all the reason out of the window. He doesn't listen and doesnt take a second to think about anything

[@AaronOneal-e7h]

Indoctrination and mental conditioning is one hell of a drug.

[@rochelebierhalspereira7106]

The question "what would you say to Jesus?" reminded me of the movie The Count of Monte Cristo, when the boy says "Do your worst", except I would add "I did my best with the information that was presented to me. Now do your worst, but I know I held to my integrity and lived my life the best I could given the multiplicity of claims and the abundance of contradictions".

[@WynnterGreen]

Dwayne, that's like, just your opinion, bro. 25 minutes and counting without a single coherent thought.

[@cambriaofthevastoceans6721]

Kevin reenacting the "why male models?" scene from Zoolander 😂

[@Never-mind1960]

Predicting that humanity will eventually self-destruct is not that impressive. In fact, anyone living to near 50, and not walking around with blinders, can easily see this. The amazing thing is that it hasn't happened yet. The US is trying oh-so hard right now.

[@MrBozoOzo]

Matthew; slight issue with your proof: we don't know for sure that Jesus actually existed. We don't know he said any of the things you point at. If he ever lived, what he said was written down many years after he died. Did he say those things at all, or did people claim he said some stuff that was true at the time it was written down? Also, isn't the failed prophesies an issue? Doesn't those make your favorite one pale a bit?

[@benjaminnielsen4288]

Man, I was laughing my ass off when Forest explained the religious differences- Christianity's got a mythical carpenter from Bethlehem and Islam's got a mythical pedophile from Mecca 😂 -both of which say you're going to burn in hell if you don't believe in them. Well said, sir. I love it

[@papaver5]

Kevin: Yes, I hear you, I understand. But, BTW, I wasn't listening to anything you said, and I'm just gonna answer what I want to answer and then go on to my next point. Edit: I forgot to add that if you want to meet the luckiest person on earth, get ready because it's this guy. Born into the right family in the right religion and everyone else is screwed.

[@Jenna_Miles]

Forrest went OFF at Jesus High-key a very powerful monologue

[@shanewilson7994]

Wow Gilberto's call, that's just sad, but reminds me of a group I've had the unfortunate chance to talk to but not sure if he's part of said group.

[@blakewalker84120]

Kevin sounds like a nice guy, and more honest than most callers. But he's clearly not equipped to have this conversation.

[@SixStringHarmonies]

Oh my, this guy. The ignorance and pride. Jesus never existed. Those words in Matthew were written by A PRIEST of the early "church". A time filled with sporadic sects of Christian preachers popping up all over the Roman territories. The Gospels were written to CONSOLIDATE POWER. To establish dogma and doctrine and to elevate the sect to which the Gospel author(s) belonged. All "predictions" levied in said Gospels are intended as a criticism of the current time. Just as Revelations is not a reference to something a million years away but something they thought would happen over a millennia ago to the Romans. Christianity is an amalgamation of Judaism and Pagan traditions from the first century. Period. There were hundreds if not thousands of similar religions at the time, after the time, and even unto today. It's all so infantile. Read a book.

[@TiKallisti]

Jesus did most probably exist, a middle eastern jew (who was born of a very easy girl, who was able to convince her dumb carpenter husband that she didn´t sleep around), who smoked a little too much weed, slacked off and tricked some other desert goat-herders to provide for him and was finally was nailed to a gum for violating the law of land. No problem there! The guy described in the bible? No, not so much - like not at all!

[@charliecarrot]

Never thought I'd hear a reference to Luno Oi's ongoing translation of Vietnamese college textbooks on Dialectical Materialism. Regardless of how you feel about her as a creator or the ideology, you can download the translation for free (or with a donation to support the efforts) and it's worth checking out - if for nothing else, to hear about Marxism from a direct source instead of filtered through the opinions of other people who haven't studied it.

[@hank3004]

Long ago, there was a ‘dead horse’ named Mathew! He just reminded most of us about the futility of flogging a dead horse!!😂

[@simonl1135]

@Mario, materialism is very much compatible with nihilism. In fact more than many other "philosophies" and "worldviews". To both hosts: this is actually how I always understood nihilism: nothing exists on purpose, including life and specially human life - therefore the purpose of our lives is what we make of it and that's the most wonderful thing about it. We can live it the way we like it and commit to anything we want (within the societal boundaries of course:)). Also, Forrest, the more I listen to you (including you talking about your life), the more I wish I had a friend like you. Keep up the good work - and good life, man!

[@MrCanis4]

Keven, just a another “I am the one and only Thrue Christian.”

[@BaronVonQuiply]

Call-in shows have taught me that most people are used to zero pushback for their claims and constructing arguments based on "c'mon.. man" , "it just makes sense", and the classic standby "I think the odds point to this thing I have no numbers on so please don't ask me how I arrived at my conclusion because I'm not prepared for anything other than your complete capitulation"

[@nightpanther1527]

I can't believe you gave Matthew so many chances, he's clearly lost in the sauce 😂

[@jamesfx33]

I highly recommend to everyone the book: Your Life Your Game by keezano🙌🏼 I read it and it changed my life, it shows how connecting with God and your inner self can lead to spiritual growth and financial success. A must read…God bless🙏🏼

[@MisMariaRosee]

Thank you, l just bought it

[@Iamthebigcheeze]

What in the bot is this?

[@emmanuel1337]

???

[@topcat2069]

🐴💩

[@ScottJohnson-z5s]

Report as spam and move on

[@Godmil]

I honestly just felt bad for Kevin. Maybe he wasn't the best caller for the hosts to drive the point through to. Sounded like he needed time to think about things.

[@SaltySeattleCyclist]

1:38:20 I will always appreciate The Line so dang much for not taking calls while people are driving. I see WAY too many people mindlessly scrolling through their phones while driving every day, and it's a constant reminder that I'm only seconds away from being seriously injured or worse because someone nearby me is more concerned with their TikTok feed than the lives of those around them! Do better, people!

[@broadcastbard]

When you are asked a question FIRST respond succinctly, SECOND ask if you can flesh it out. You are more likely to get your thought out.

[@Cloud_Snowfall]

The call with Matthew is a big nothing burger.

[@QuarkLeptonTheOriginalRecipe]

Skeptical Heretic, I really enjoyed your input.

[@simonl1135]

Dwayne: "God is not something that exists, God is existence itself"... ummm, ok. We've already had shit like "God is love and love exists therefore God exists, checkmate, atheists!", but you might not want to start with "does not exist". Maybe try something like "God is reality, therefore God is real".

[@herbieshine1312]

But he did an elephant sound!!!! Surely you've got to love that😁😁

[@simonl1135]

@@herbieshine1312 Yup, major points for the elephant sound. And he even honestly admitted that if Forrest said he has an elephant in the backroom and there was an elephant sound, it could just be loudspeaker. A lot of theists at this point have red lights screaming ALERT ALERT in their heads and start dodging everything just in case.

[@Pmrace1960]

his god afflicted him with narcolepsy which was kind of him..

[@danidiaz2377]

great show both of you.

[@davidwatson8118]

Kevin has not read his own bible.

[@Deioth]

I do not think I will ever not laugh every time the whole "I will sacrifice my own son (who is myself) to myself to absolve your sin" thing every time it is mentioned.

[@OldSchoolSaintViking]

You guys have the patience of saints. (pun intended!) I gradually lose the will to live listening to some of these people!

[@luisaleloki]

Dude when Kevin (from Canada) Answer the typical 'Jesus is the truth the way and the light' after that long logic thread of being born into the correct religion, i felt true despair. It's the closest I've head a human being basically do factory reset. I can't even begin to tell you how much it bummed me out.