Where should we look for ET? Avi Loeb, Seth Shostak

Finding intelligence in the cosmos might be done simply by paying attention. While SETI scientists look for radio or optical signals, the astronomy community is perennially on the lookout for all types of cosmic phenomena. One example of the latter is the discovery, three years ago, of what was thought to be a previously unknown asteroid. While asteroids are enormously commonplace in our solar system, this object, christened Oumuamua, is clearly from someone else’s solar system. Harvard astronomer Avi Loeb has suggested that Oumuamua might not be an asteroid at all, but a type of interstellar craft, sent our way by extraterrestrials. Why does he think this, and what is the larger lesson we should heed in our search for alien intelligence?
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[@rameyzamora1018]

Avi's enthusiasm is contagious!

[@JazzyArtKL]

Seth and Avi. Can it become more brilliant? Thank you gentlemen.

[@rockys3745]

I love this guy. I bought his book and I feel that we should take this seriously. We are not the only ones in the universe, I believe that are many advanced civilizations in our galaxy and others. Most of them are advanced, some of them are like us and some of them are just starting. I also believe SETI needs to be funded by government.

[@bozo5632]

I don't know whether life in the universe is common or rare, but Avi Loeb is everywhere. And I like it.

[@Briantreeu123]

Lol I thought/said the same thing

[@Norwegianization]

he pushes a narrative to sell both his books and the project "breakthrough starshot" for economic and public support. It is clever to assume the object was pushed by a light sail.

[@bozo5632]

@@Norwegianization Has Loeb ever even mentioned writing a book? I've seen him interviewed a dozen times but I don't remember him ever mentioning a book. Does Starshot even accept outside public or private funding? I've never heard of any new investors or seen any way to contribute. Do you have any basis for saying "he's in it for the money?"

[@Scrambled_Possum]

I was ready to dismiss this dude, but he makes some good points. I think we should be looking for a hand with a light saber attached, but that's just me.

[@user-nw2si7hu3u]

This was a great talk

[@steveblanmag7410]

I always enjoy listening to Avi Loeb (and Seth, of course) .

[@damiandunbar6702]

Thanks for the video 🇦🇺

[@jimmyzhao9748]

Can this object still be tracked or is it out of range ?

[@survivor303]

great interview. please bring this channel to lbry.

[@soultrick7474]

love Avi, dude is so passionate about this

[@spacepygmy4443]

Love u guys

[@merky6004]

“I want to believe,” as they say. That is the reason for my reluctance to jump too heavily onboard. Let me explain. I read the book and he makes some strong arguments. Logical, step by step. Credit there. However, Back in my teenager years (the 70s! Groovy) I read a book on the Devils Triangle. Totally convinced me. I also read about Bigfoot, ghosts, the Rosewell crash, etc... I’m a sucker for speculation with an amazing theory of extreme answers. But answer to the promise never arrives. Entertaining yes. Hard evidence, no. They have no image. The inference comes from point of light intensity that changes over time, the color, and the speed. Big leap. So now I try to be extra critical of these things. On the other hand, here I am again, reading an other book on these things. Maybe I’ll never learn.

[@Vlasko60]

I'd say you have learned. Most that want to believe in phenomena keep believing on bad evidence. I can't even read a book by someone like Avi. He's not skeptical enough for me.

[@Briantreeu123]

Geez. Every KZbin channel I'm subscribed to is interviewing Avi. I'm not mad though he's a great speaker this is very interesting stuff and very interesting times lucky to be around as we discover these first Interstellar objects next we find intergalactic Etc

[@bingbong586]

Avi is the man.

[@benedictevial976]

If the aliens watch this broadcast, they decide to ignore us. Not because we are still not "warp capable", but because it is obviously still necessary to compresse audio signals.

[@bingbong586]

Just an Idea Seth, perhaps you should put Avi Loebs name in the title of the video? His name is gaining allot of traction and it would help your interview reach more people if it shows up in their search results. Great interview!

[@sethshostak3072]

I couldn't agree more, Roberto! I'm asking to have that done.

[@Briantreeu123]

Also what if there's stuff we don't understand about dark "energy" maybe if more local than thought of? Js

[@zebonautsmith1541]

Rock or Solar Sail; there should be more of them.

[@leahrockstar]

Maybe it was the solar system was speeding up and not Oumouamua

[@bozo5632]

Imho Oumuamua looks more like a jettisoned Whipple Shield than like a defunct light sail.

[@robertenglish9838]

I have a box. You cannot determine what is in the box unless you look inside. If you don't look inside, it's speculating to offer opion about my box's contents. Why would you choose speculation over investigation? Thanks, Avi. Thanks Seth.

[@benedictevial976]

Seth can't believe that...they wouldn't come before they give us a call...at least without using a Fourier Analysis...🤔

[@Haunt_X]

Gravitational siting shot🤔

[@keybutnolock]

Here again. The book.

[@FajriJusran]

If that's a probe and they communicating using quantum entanglement, can we still detect their communication ?

[@sethshostak3072]

Ah, Fajri, quantum entanglement doesn't allow faster than light communication. So might as well use radio!

[@Eo_Tunun]

Oumuamua's shape was estimated based on the albedo of a common "dirty snowball" kind of object, if I remember right. Has anyone ever asked a chemist if he or she knows an substance that would be solid at the temperature of deep space but start emitting hydrogen in the radiation conditions in the vicinity of a star? Ideally a solid substance of high albedo? A high albedo object could be way smaller and denser than the outlandish object proposed based on nearly black subsance, obviously Something that I think basically busts the idea of Oumuamua being a piece of alien equipment is the fact that according to its trajectory, it must have basiclly been resting in space in the path of the solar system. I would expact an artefact to be somehow related with some star system somewhere in the neighbourhood of the sun by gross impulse. …unless it's some tourist information sign by some galactic bypass, saying something like: "Sol Planets of interest: 2 Refreshing athmospheric conditions for silcium based lifeforms. 3 Mostly harmless. Please do not feed the monkeys. 4 Nice environment for dune buggy races. The big moons of the big ones are entertaining." That sign was involved in a life wild accident, obviously.

[@richard--s]

Not so many years ago it was considered non-scientific to think about and search for exoplanets. Now it is considered non-scientific to think about and search for life elsewhere. I can see a similarity in the way, science works.

[@Wrenchdolt]

To be fair there's also a lot of things that were considered non-scientific that didn't go anywhere, but the successes still prove it's worth exploring all possibilities.

[@richard--s]

@@Wrenchdolt yes, you are right.

[@Erkynar]

Sounds odd. I think there are unscientific ways of looking for ET, which I agree should be viewed with great scepticism, but also scientific ways of looking. For "science" to take anything seriously, the methodology must be scientific. This has not changed, I think. Then there's academia and social interdependencies in the hierarchies within which academia (and by extention, much science) is produced and reiterated. A different, though important and impactful, kettle of fish. This interview, I think, illustrate this aspect. SETI has been scientific in methodology since the get go, however the nature of the question make most scientist shy away because they don't like the odds of ever getting any results that can be conclusive, given the available technology (or so I guess).

[@richard--s]

@@Erkynar yes, a non-scientific approach is not good. It should be scientific.

[@zapfanzapfan]

I hope they can catch up with Oumuamua with probes launched by Breakthrough Starshot. I really want to know what it is. My personal theory is that it's a basalt pillar from a smashed planetesimal. I giant version of the pillars that make up the giants causeway in Ireland. Hope to get an answer some day.

[@Norwegianization]

If, only if the object was of extraterrestrial origin, it might have been sent to collect data about us. In terms of how advanced technology we have, and about our weapons capability, before embarking on the journey to visit us. They took a cautious step in the first place.

[@joemariejames4757]

Damn I should give a question I got alot of questions about omuamua I envy those people who asked questions....😅😅

[@stevemumbling7720]

Wouldn't the solar wind prevent a solar sail from tumbling, and heading towards a star? If it was a targeted probe why do you think it didn't get closer than 15M miles to us?

[@Pyrophoro]

At around 15:50 Professor Loeb proceeds to verbally bitch slap those colleagues referring to them as MEDIOCRE at best!

[@Vlasko60]

He's very defensive and smacks of wishful thinking.

[@cineblock224]

Before watching this conversation I thought I where useless.

[@petetube99]

I like Loebs style. He isnt pissing about is he? Seti shouldn't be apologetic about what it's doing, it's a totally reasonable line of enquiry.

[@AntonioLemos66]

🖖👽

[@adamstotsky2216]

Perhaps between the stars there are no radio signals, perhaps communication between the stars is something like the old West pony express perhaps that’s what a UAP is. Ask yourself this why would you use radio signals when or if you have something faster than the speed of light?

[@jonsmith7781]

I don't mean to dismiss Professor Loeb's expertise, but he comes across in this interview as a bit of a crank, with his long defensive rants about closed-minded scientists and Giordano Bruno and dark matter and his daughters, barely letting Seth finish what he was saying. Felt less SETI Institute and more Coast to Coast AM at points. Such rants are particularly out of place here, since fans of the SETI Institute don't need to be persuaded to entertain the idea of alien life.

[@Vlasko60]

I agree completely.

[@ibuprofenPill]

I know, he goes off topic with his soapboxes and it’s annoying.

[@user-nw2si7hu3u]

Avis selling his book HARD these days lol

[@Cyborous]

17:31 well to be fair tabby star is still a mystery. It hasn’t been fully explained even to this day. There are some people still studying the data on it and still find somethings baffling that they cannot fully explain. A lot of the data being studied about it is still out to lunch so to speak. Hasn’t been fully tabulated even to this day to say it’s 100 without a doubt natural.

[@redhaze8080]

16:30 Bhahaha, oh dear. lols Avi is tops :)

[@Norwegianization]

Strange how a professional researcher does not know what a cylinder is, but rather chooses to use the word "cigar"

[@PhysicsPolice]

33:00 This is a simple matter of epistemology. It's inappropriate to suggest an unnatural explanation (e.g. aliens) until natural explanations have been ruled out. I understand aliens aren't supernatural, but in many ways that hypothesis acts the same, in terms of the actual process of science. There's also the matter of ethics in science communication. It's unethical to even mention an extraordinary result (e.g. aliens) to the media until it has been robustly challenged by the community. Science by press release is terribly harmful to the public perception of science. Think cold fusion, faster than light neutrinos, arsenic life, BICEP2, phosphine on Venus, vaccines causing autism, etc.

[@Vlasko60]

Best comments.

[@PhysicsPolice]

@@Vlasko60 thanks man!

[@Vlasko60]

@@PhysicsPolice I really appreciate when someone like yourself points out fallacies in a way that I cannot. Thank you!

[@75YBA]

I have zero patience for hacks like Loeb.

[@stevencoardvenice]

Sharp cookies!

[@jamesh.greunwald8842]

We already know is not in Washington DC

[@JerryR1776]

We should look right here on Earth. Believe it or not, I've seen 2. They were together. I was unbelievably scared. There probably isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about that night. Just sayin

[@papinbala]

i totally disagree i dont see the evidence that he is talking about to conclude is was an extraterrestrial object. and its very weird that he says we should just contemplate that it might be extraterrestrial but in his book he actually makes the claim that it is extraterrestrial, not just contemplating. and when Michael Shermer confronted him about that on his podcast, Avi started to act like diva and started to throw a fit and didn't even let Michael talk.

[@Vlasko60]

I can't take him seriously. I think his audience is mostly wishful thinkers, which are easy to sell to.

[@papinbala]

@@Vlasko60 oh yea this whole ufo business is very profitable. if it wasn't Avi wouldn't right the book

[@75YBA]

Classic narcissistic injury. It gets easier to sniff out N.P.D. once you know what to look for.

[@ibuprofenPill]

Dr. Avi “Soapbox” Loeb

[@StereoSpace]

Interesting to me that you find the same resistance within the biology community to discussing the origin of an enormous amount of digital code, in the form of DNA information, that appeared in the Cambrian out of nowhere - exactly like, and causal, of the complex fossils that appear suddenly with no precursor life forms. A gigantic, unexplained, counterfactual to their evolutionary theory that they hold a curtain over while saying, "Nothing to see here, move along." The implications are too uncomfortable for them to address, too threatening to their worldview.

[@chrisbarnett5303]

RNA forms easily and the building blocks of RNA and DNA exist all over the cosmos

[@StereoSpace]

@@chrisbarnett5303 Please. That's like saying clay minerals form naturally, and that explains the existence of complex brick buildings with HVAC systems, plumbing and electricity.

[@chrisbarnett5303]

@@StereoSpace Once you have polymers capable of storing information, life is inevitable given that life is more efficient at converting energy into waste heat and the more effective polymers will tend to be preserved over the less effective ones. Life is just an inevitable result given certain conditions due to physics

[@DeathCultFan]

What a waste of time and money looking for intelligent life 'out there' when we should be looking for it on Earth.

[@keybutnolock]

Surely finding it on Earth is less likely.

[@JazzyArtKL]

Exploration is the nature of humans and never a waste of money and time. Narrow minded soul.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Is it true that SETI is not mainstream? It sounds like he's raving or making a straw-man argument about astronomers/astrophysicists not investigating what he wants them to.

[@atomiklyt7342]

In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful: Is not He who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the likes of them? Yes, and He is the Knowing Creator, Great truth of God. Qur'anic verse that opens the horizons for humans' modesty to realise that how is it easy the existence' similarity for such a simple tiny creatures "heavens and earth". Overall it's a supporting point of view for a similar worlds' findings.

[@Vlasko60]

Think of all the suffering that has ever been endured on this planet and then realize that your god allowed it all to happen.

[@atomiklyt7342]

You think of the free willing that he gave to the evil people as well as the good people, it's like I gave you a tool that you can save people lives with and you can hurt with it. Will it be my fault that I gave you that tool if you hurt someone? Note that he gave us the instructions to use it for a good deeds and promised to punish the misusage.

[@Vlasko60]

@@atomiklyt7342 Do you believe that your god is all knowing and all powerful? Is there anything your god can't know or do?

[@atomiklyt7342]

Indeed he is!

[@Vlasko60]

@@atomiklyt7342 Then your god created each person, knowing every thing they would ever do, correct?

[@Vlasko60]

I can't take Avi seriously. He smacks of wishful thinking.

[@PhysicsPolice]

37:00 This style of rhetoric is called "whataboutism". It's irrelevant how speculative are fields of study like string theory. They don't propose an intelligent agent to explain natural phenomena. That's the difference. And even if there was some sort of favoritism going on in science, it wouldn't serve as an argument for his theory to show that other theories in unrelated fields are even weaker. Non sequitur.

[@JazzyArtKL]

No, it's keeping an open mind in science. That's all Avi is saying here. He doesn't claim to be right. You already discarded the possibility, because you will be ridiculed for it. Avi doesn't care, you do with a ridiculous name like PhysicsPolice.

[@PhysicsPolice]

@@JazzyArtKL "it's keeping an open mind in science" -- Straw man. Science is already appropriately open minded. Everyone is welcome to post in the arXiv. "He doesn't claim to be right" -- No, but he claims string theory is taken more seriously than his theory, despite both being comparably speculative. It's true they are comparably speculative, and it's also true they're treated differently in academia. The reason for this difference in treatment is that string theory offers a natural explanation, where ET offers an unnatural explanation. The standard of evidence is much, much higher in the latter case. For good reason. It's not that academia has a problem with ET. Rather, nature has made the ET problem difficult for academia. Lowering publication standards to make Avi happy isn't a reasonable solution to this problem. "You already discarded the possibility, because you will be ridiculed for it. Avi doesn't care, you do with a ridiculous name like PhysicsPolice." -- 100% pure ad hominem. Try again.

[@JazzyArtKL]

I'll reply to your comment tomorrow, you are making a few logical errors here yourself. Strawman and Ad hominem? Neither, to be honest. ET an unnatural explanation? False! Earth like planets in a solar system like the ours are very common and the nature behaving similar given similar circumstances make ET very like. Chemistry, Physics and other natural sciences seem to behave similar everywhere. So that's a fallacy that you made there. Respond to the other error you made tomorrow. You clearly have bias in your reasoning.

[@PhysicsPolice]

@@JazzyArtKL we agree ET is ontologically natural. Made of meat. (Or silicon?) Epistemologically “unnatural” in the sense that any anomaly can be explained by ET. So we should have a higher standard of evidence for ET explanations.

[@PhysicsPolice]

@@JazzyArtKL Avi’s straw man is the pretend member of the scientific community who says we shouldn’t be openly discussing the ET hypothesis. Who actually said that? Show me one example. I’ve heard people criticize Avi’s ideas themselves. I read his palate. His argument for Omuamua being a technological artifact is weak. Full of mistakes. I’ve heard people criticize Avi for enabling sensationalist journalism. Which he has done in my opinion. I haven’t heard anyone in academia say ET is off limits for discussion. That’s stupid.

[@mrdim362]

And how long are you going to pump out this crap for. ?

[@user-nw2si7hu3u]

Mainstream science is SO conservative in its thinking that’s why it’s so boring and anybody with a brain goes into finance. Pathetic

[@Vlasko60]

Translation: "Mainstream science doesn't confirm my magical beliefs".

[@user-nw2si7hu3u]

@@Vlasko60 magical beliefs w signatures backed up by military hardware / you sound like someone who was so smug and wouldn’t believe the earth roster around the sun because their eyes didn’t see that so it must be magical thinking. Your ignorance is clear do some reading see how much evidence and proof is out there the US military has been studying this since ww2 as well as every nation on earth . Mussolini started the first government agency to specifically study ufos after landings in itsly in 1933, it’s old news for those who are not lazy. No magic needed.

[@Vlasko60]

@@user-nw2si7hu3u There is a lot of credible evidence that the Earth goes around the Sun, but it would be reasonable for the average person to think otherwise before it was confirmed by science. It is somewhat reasonable for non-scientific thinkers to believe aliens have come here based on sketchy "evidence" and societal influences, but the more one learns about science, the less likely it seems. If you have a slam dunk case that you think proves alien visitation, I will look at it.

[@257rani]

❤Shrimp 🦐 on the Barbie 🇦🇺🦘❤