Which ball creates the most carry down?

[@mattlivetv9246]

Not many people would post when they are wrong. Good on you.

[@BigSkyBowler]

@@mattlivetv9246 I'm all about sharing correct information and I'm more than humble enough to admit when I'm wrong. Whatever helps grow the sport!

[@TehWin3]

I think the test itself is interesting but at the end of the video you hit the answer straight on its head... It's the amount of flare that creates and/or affects the amount of "carrydown" the most as a variable. This has actually been scientifically proven and i think Radical Mo Pinel co-published a paper on this back in his days (rip). An inch flare will create substantially more carrydown than a 3 inch flare when rolling over the same spot and ill get to why later... But what also was proven in the paper which is paramount in this discussion isnt just the distance in width of the total flare but the distance between each revolution of flare line between each revolution. (there's only so much of a ball that can touch the lane at any given point since its a spherical object) A tight or barely any dry between each revolution is the king of creating carrydown and the least carrydown you will find on an asymmetric bowling ball with flare rings wide apart and long distance from first to last. What's also very important is the actual "dry lines" past the "wet" pattern, balls and layouts will promote an increase/decrease or relatively stable dry flare which starts just to the side of the last "wet" flare unless the ball "stands up" as in the core asymmetry in relation to ball path is equalled in which case it will start on the last wet lines and that promotes skid (and carrydown). The correlation between wet and dry flare lines is not entirely symmetric but the dry lines do tend "try" to follow the wet by trying to replicating the distance and width as much as it can in the time alloted. Remember that the ball travels 2/3 of the distance in wet on a normal distance pattern so the dry flare timing is much more aggressive, sudden and of shorter period in total for many factors such as its frictional response happens. Therefor you tend to see dry flare line squish its flare rings distances (between each revolution of the ball) slightly compared to the wet and since its less time you also tend to see less total "rings" as in revolutions too. This portion is also affected by a bowlers Revs just like other metrics ie speed. The problem with your test if i go back to beginning of my comment even though its very interesting and proves a point in its methodology is like you said, there's no revolutions beyond its "roll" and neither is there any added TILT or axis rotation. They roll "end over end" These like you mentioned as "layout" defines the ball motion with its natural RG, DIFF and INT DIFF and then promoted/demoted by this layout and how a bowler throws it in the end. But im sure you cant afford a throwbot to simulate a real bowlers toss and replicate it 100% each and every throw by a person is a tall ask 😅 To my point; I believe this is why your test showed the plastic as a winner in terms of the most "carrydown" simply because it rolled the most "end over end" while the urethane and your solid had its holes drilled and you did an excellent job trying to make them go absolutely as straight as possible you can see in the video their natural progression due to its instability shifting the imbalance and it was the most evident with your solid. This is because of the holes drilled in the balls creates that imbalance of the ball as intended. If you had filmed the ball is super slow-mo you'd see it make that "wiggle" with each revolution (i call it duck butt walk for lack of better analogy) I wish you had filmed/photod the balls flare from each of the throw and you'd probably notice it too how its actually creeping even though you did a great job trying to make it roll as neutral and end over end as possible. On a longer test track or simulation it would be even more evident up until the point it goes "perfectly balanced" and i use quotes because it will never be perfectly balanced mathematically due to the holes drilled. Try it next time since you built that sweet ramp and see for yourself" even if you let it go rolling end over end it will shift over distance and therefor the track will move just ever so slightly rather than rolling exactly end over end. This adds "contact point" of fresh non-oiled ball tracking to the lane that can "pick up" oil but it will never touch the lane again. This is why we get our "fronts ruined" because balls "pick up" oil and takes it with them and comes back in the ball return with its oil flares visible having never deposited it back to the lane. What deposits oil on the dry part of the lane outside of "end over end" roll is simply the fact that the ball is in equillibrium with its weighted angle of motion compared to the ball travel path just when it enters the end of the pattern or "dry part", if its not in equilibrium it will not skid (unless oil has been deposited at the contact point but we assume its clean) because the contact point will be a dry part of the ball and a dry part of the lane it will create motion almost instantanously because of that friction (This is where coverstock material, core and such determines the reaction but also all the other factors such as axis rotation, tilt, revs, speed etc... But surface is always king when it comes to the "reaction" part of friction and/or how "snappy") Now when it comes to actual surface itself, a plastic, pure urethane, solid and or its pearl hybrids you were correct that the surface grit is what matters the most for its the peaks and valleys where the oil can "rest" in will determine the volume of oil carried by the "flare" just as the amount of "ball" will touch the lane. I distinctly remember Mo mention this as something that is negligble compared to the other metrics but it is mathematical and measureable, no matter its a very small effect. But i liked that you covered that basis by just having all the balls at the same grit! Edit: I'd like to add that if it wasnt obvious im an advocate that it doesn't matter what the ball is made of but much more so is the instability, flare pattern and/or rolling end over end that actually matters for carrydown more than anything else. The ball surface can be more slick or able to "pick up" oil yes, but the significant part in my opinion is what part "spot" of the ball is touching the lanes and when rather than what its made of. Sorry for my grammar and im not a native english speaker. Overall its a great video and interesting test! I really like it and stuff like this gives me nerd vibes to the max :D

[@BigSkyBowler]

Thank you! I wish I could do more testing with balls that are undrilled to truly get accurate results with what surface type would carry the most oil down to the pins.

[@stompingpeak2043]

Plastic does have much more carry down than any other ball. It's literally what they do. Since like you said they don't flare. Even the high end Plastic balls with asym cores will have very little flare compared to anything else. Just try it sometime. Get a Plastic ball and slow hook it down your mark where your breakpoint is for a handful of shots. You'll basically create a sports shot and completely destroy the pattern. It's also why bowling league against teams that only use straight balls is more difficult. Urethane can be bad with carry down but there's a massive reason. It's that people don't properly wipe the ball after their previous shot. Even then much more oil will be left on the cover compared to just pushing it down the lane. People complain about it to complain typically. Then reactive will pick the most up because fresh ball is constantly going through the oil and its very unlikely to roll over soiled ball surface. These balls also absorb oil so wiping the ball isn't a big issue compared to other options. Since it'll be relatively fresh on the next shot. The only real problem would be using a reactive cover that doesn't absorb as much or using alot of polish. Then not using a towel or shirt between shots. In the end the best way to maintain lanes is having people throw in similar zones consistently. If you have a bad team or people on your pair the lanes will be ruined regardless of what ball is used. If you have a few people establishing a breakpoint then that shot will last for 6 games with little movement.

[@TehWin3]

@@stompingpeak2043 No. That's not how physics works and honestly i could sit here and write another essay of why you're wrong in your statement. I can make a purple hammer flare about 2/3rds of the ball side just as i can make a plastic ball with a symmetric weightblock in it do it aswell (it doesnt matter if its polished too kek). A plastic ball with no core in it merely a filler material will do as i stated above, roll end over end. HOWEVER A symmetric core is inherently more stable than any asymmetric core. It's more of a challenge and a thumb user will be much easier to do this for than a 2H bowler because they also naturally almost all have very low tilt and the added huge hole ofcourse... So with an asymmetric core, a proper drilling layout taking to account the PSA will create flare (how much) based of bowlers stats and PAP. That's physics, not my opinion. You're welcome to try re-revolutionize bowling and basicly take the pioneers like Pinel and Ron from radical and countless others who worked on this for decades and tell them math is wrong. You then state something that i explicitly pointed out in my comment, straight balls create carrydown while disagreeing with that very notion from my text? huh? I'm telling you, it wont matter what the surface is and especially absorption rate because any normal decent bowler will wipe their ball each and every shot. Do you really think a 4 minute absorption rate will matter in the 2 seconds range the ball is in the front part of the lane? I hope not. I'll give you points on the fact that certain bowlers dont wipe their balls and you are hypothetically correct in that regard that it could create scenarios where by it creates 'carrydown' hell while we're even thinking about it i would agree it could even enhance it. I dont like to argue over hypothetical scenarios... Fact is bowlers should wipe their ball with each throw, its kinda taught at a basic starter level and nobody likes slippery. You're also misinformed or just ignoring the fact that a reactive ball can have low flare, a very popular ball is the scorpion or another like the rattler for an example ;). A low flaring ball will roll over the same part of the ball until it meets friction, dump it and then hook -> roll. Asymmetric balls can be drilled to be low flare aswell however its like i said much harder the higher the DIFF is and also intermediate differential plays a role especially at the hook ->roll phase. This is no different from plastic, urethane, reactives and their coverstock derivatives. And here's maybe another fun fact for you, hybrids and pearls (silica) are reactives too! They're just blended solids with additives. It's a marketing naming scheme to easy it down for normal people. Coverstock formulas is still today very secretive between brands.