Which Commander Cards Are Banned and Why?

Ever wonder exactly which Commander cards are on the banlist, and what got them there? This video will serve as your full guide to everything on the EDH banlist!
Check out the official Commander rules and bans here:
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[@TheAmazingSpiderman87]

What confuses me is you've got all these cards on the banlist yet the RC still allows Colossal Dreadmaw to run rampart.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Woll they ever come to their senses

[@BigHit9922]

It’s insane honestly

[@LeviClay]

Gifts Ungiven isn't banned because you tutor 4 cards, it's because you tutor UP TO four cards. If there's two cards you need in your graveyard to win the game, you just get those and your opponent HAS to put them in the yard.

[@TRU3OGR3]

Major nitpick here but… it’s not an “UP TO”. It’s a “fail to find” because the condition “different names” makes it a conditional tutor, which allows you to fail it.

[@TRU3OGR3]

Actually upon reading the new printing’s wording it is an UP TO !!! My bad, and I couldn’t think of a time where that’d be relevant anyway.

[@LeviClay]

@@TRU3OGR3 the card literally reads “up to” hence the quote

[@TRU3OGR3]

@@LeviClay yea, it didn’t used to read like that

[@LeviClay]

@@TRU3OGR3 ahhh of course! Yeah, because it was that odd wording before that ended up in this play being controversial at the time. The question is… was it just worded poorly and that was exploited, or was this always the intention?

[@radiodemon5774]

I wish commander would go back to banning cards as commanders. A lot of these cards are banned only because they're legendary and you could have them in the command zone. A restricted list is really not confusing, we just say this card is too good for you to get to see every game.

[@cax1175]

Or the other way around, Emrakul wouldn't need to be banned as a commander

[@radiodemon5774]

I wouldn’t want to play against an emrakul deck. But emrakul as a silver bullet in a ramp deck seems totally fine.

[@Bigchungus-rg6uj]

@@cax1175 emrakul is banned because it's just not fun. There are all sorts of broken cards. But emrakul straight up ends the game the moment it's cast from the command zone.

[@FitzyyLives]

@@Bigchungus-rg6uj that is why it would be fine as a game ending card in the 99... no different than any other wincon

[@selkokieli843]

Makes sense to say that as an enfranchised player. This change however was made with new players in mind. Personally I don't miss having to think about weather a card is banned as a commander or in general though. Can't say I miss any of the banned cards either. They would render otherwise interesting gamestates and politics into very simple questions in the games my group plays.

[@MrGeoghagan]

Respectfully disagree with Beezy's take on the removal of the "banned as commander" specific list. Rofellos Braids, and Golos would be fine in the 99 and it's disappointing to see cards banned as a whole strictly due to their strength in the commander slot.

[@flitterfish]

Apply the logic to Companion cards like Lutri. He isn't a problem in the deck or in the command zone. He's just an issue outside the game because he's a free auto include, why not ban him from being the companion card?

[@brianlinden3042]

@@flitterfish Exactly. He shouldn't be banned, except as Companion. It's one extra line of text on the banned list. Not too complicated or hard to remember for literally anyone who knows what a "banned list" is.

[@DurhamCurse]

Agreed. I will never understand how "banned as commander" is confusing

[@peadrianlastname]

Why not ban skullclamp if your deck has more than 5 x/1s? Why not ban jeweled lotus but only if your commander costs 4? Why not ban omnath decks from running fetchlands? Why not ban brainstorm and fetches being in the same deck?

[@AlistairZands]

Idk if it'd get anywhere, but I'd sign a petition to bring back banned as commander

[@andrewdrexler6593]

There actually was a time when Time Vault got changed to only work if you skipped your turn. It was very convoluted and used a specific type of counter (hello proliferate!), and, ultimately, the errata was removed and the card restored to it's original functionality.

[@brianlinden3042]

I still have yet to hear a reasonable explanation for why "Banned as Commander" needed to go.

[@Hazaak.]

cause there isn't a good one.

[@peadrianlastname]

Things are either too strong or they arent, it shouldn't matter what slot in the deck it takes. If they still had banned as commander youd just tutor it by turn 3 anyway. Banned in a single slot but not in others is not new player (read:10 y.o. learning to play, not your buddy you're teaching at the bar) friendly. Theres 3 reasons pick your fave

[@brianlinden3042]

@@peadrianlastname I said a *reasonable* explanation.

[@StevenTLawson]

@@brianlinden3042 he did give them, its bot unreasonable to assume a card that is too strong in the command zone to retain a lot of that power even in the deck. Its actually unreasonable to assume that a card which was banned for being to powerful is suddenly fine just because its not your commander.

[@StevenTLawson]

@@theundergrad5994 considering Braids is a black card that you can easily tutor into your hand, mill and reanimate. How exactly is that different than being in the command zone, maybe a mana difference at best. And you are talking specific cards, do it for every single card and realize that WotC doesn't have time to put up with that nonsense of unbanning a card in the 99 and waiting to see how that screws up the format. You have to argue that the card doesnt deserve to be banned at all and sorry sweaty, Braids is a very powerful card regardless of where its being played from, so its not getting unbanned just because its slightly less powerful in the deck. It was always a turn 1-2 card when you build your deck around it and thats piss easy to do.

[@mattdeters8306]

As fast as the format is becoming, Rofellos would be a safe unban at this point. Six mana on turn 3 is easily doable with Kinnan and Selvala, and isn't that busted anymore. #FreeRofellos You mentioned Griselbrand in the command zone. IMO, that's the safest place you could see him, given that he's an 8-drop. He'd be far more dangerous in the 99, where he could be Entomb/Reanimated or fetched with Shadowborn Apostles.

[@Quasimodo447]

Easily, I've gotten Sliver Queen out turn two several times. I'm almost for a nothing is banned type format even though I build more creature based decks and not looking for some combo, so I don't win that often, just play to have fun.

[@christopherdallenbach2524]

Prophet of Kruphix, brings back memories. I started playing Magic and by extension commander during the Theros block and I remember pulling a Prophet from a pack and throwing it into one of my pre-cons when my friends and I were in the middle of a fierce arms race. The card is super busted and broke my playgroup. We ended up banning it at our table way before the rules committee had their say

[@PaulGaither]

I began playing Commander in Summer 2007. Trade Secrets was legal for many years, and it took the 2011 Commander reprinting to finally expose to the rest of the community why it was so powerful and took far too long to get banned.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Very interesting, I did not know that!

[@ElrondMcBonk]

because before EDH became Commander it was a 1v1 format. Thats also why you see so many now unplayable cards in old decklists.

[@PaulGaither]

@@ElrondMcBonk - That is SUPER WRONG. EDH literally means Elder Dragon Highlander. It originated as a five player format of 200 life (40 each) and each player built a deck based on the original Legends Elder Dragons. It has ALWAYS been a multiplayer format, and was long encouraged to be a five player format. Decks were encouraged to be built from bulk cards, as your good cards were in your tournament decks. Cards like fetch lands didn't have to be banned because you weren't even supposed to be using them. They were supposed to be in your extended and legacy decks, not the casual thematic battle cruiser singleton decks. Whoever told you it was for duels was lying to you or you have confused it with HIGHLANDER, the singleton format without a commander of color restriction deck building rules.

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

@@PaulGaither five player Ooooof

[@PaulGaither]

@@Dark-Pikachu1 - 5 isn't that bad. 6+ is a problem. The "problem" with 5 player games is more often table space than the number of players/turns/length of games. 4 players sit at tables far easier than 5. On camera for streaming and even covid zoom games, 4 also fit better. 5 is fun if you have a round table or a sizeable dining room table with someone on the end. This also allows you to actually speed games up by playing star magic, where you two neighbors (one on each side) are your allies and you win if the other two lose the game. That can create a lot of fun interactions. It is also why Trade Secrets is so strong. Just target an ally on your left or right to go off.

[@Mavczers]

Why nobody says that Gifts Ungiven are two Entombs and two Demonic Tutors for 3U at instant speed. If this is not good rate, considering Diabolic Tutor for 2BB the I don't know what is.

[@botmes4044]

I think that Dockside Extortionist might be on the chopping block for some of the same reasons that Hullbreacher got banned: it's in EVERY red deck, it's hard to counter without self-harm (sacrificing your own artifacts), it warps the fundamentals of mana ramp for your opponents, it demands specific responses (Vandalblast, or your own DE), it creates a *huge* resource imbalance too early in the game, it's too easy to combo with, and it can win games out of nowhere. Might not be such a big deal if it was, like, 6 mana instead of 2. Good riddance, I say.

[@zakbrooks7354]

I think the only reason they haven't touched it yet and they did get hullbreacher is mainly cuz of color and the stifle that hullbreacher puts on your opponent. Dockside is just a humongous red ritual when you look at it, but hullbreacher is just narset parter of veils alongside a blue ritual that doesn't stop giving mana

[@16forthecar]

@@zakbrooks7354 This is correct. Dockside is a very powerful card for sure, but hullbreacher was broken. If you've ever been staring down a wheel spell and seen someone flash in a hullbreacher you know. I think its hard to say that hullbreacher was banned for any reason other than this. The fact that it sits on the field and says the opponents can't draw extra cards is actually irrelevant after its initially played. The card was just a piece of a 2 card wincon with any wheel spell. In competitive it literally turned 6 mana into 21, emptied your opponents hands, and draw you a fresh grip. This card wasn't banned because players were just throwing it on the field and letting it sit like some stax piece.

[@MTGVania]

Thanks to field of the dead, prime time is LITERALLY also grave titan. IT IS NOW TWO CARDS IN ONE

[@rajamicitrenti1374]

Golos kind of was a problem. It's just the definition of what a 5-color Good Stuff deck would want, and it doesn't even cost all 5 colors to cast. But I think what pushed it over the edge was that its ETB lets it cheat a half-price value on the Commander Tax.

[@couchpotatoe91]

As somebody who is new to this format some of these bans seem so random. Like, why is Hullbreacher banned, but dockside extortionist is completely fine? That card seems just as broken. Same with Erayo and Braids being banned while Kuon, Ogre Ascendant is legal. There's also no reason for Sol Ring (and Mana bond and Mana vault of course) to exist, it ticks a lot of these boxes: Mandatory auto-include in every deck, put people ahead significantly, ...

[@durarada]

Not to defend it, since I hate treasure tokens as a whole due to how they are a massive crutch to support players not putting in the time to learn how to build a mana base, BUT Dockside only gives you treasure for exploiting the overall board state, massively putting you ahead if you play him out when the field is optimal. He at least takes SOME game sense and attention. I slotted Hullbreacher into my very badly made merfolk tribal deck. Never had to even think, just play hullbreacher and congrats you have the most mana and no one else gets to draw extra cards. took zero thought, and always blew my opponents out the water when he stayed on the field.

[@louischandler4611]

Its the fact that hullbreacher stops draws in order to create tokens thats ridiculous. Dockside just generates them. As for the next point. Erayo counters once a turn when it flips, which isnt hard to do in blue, especially izzet decks, braids sacs permanents, which was the problem. You set it up early enough, theyd have to sac lands, whereas Kuon you have to jump through a hoop to get to its other text, which just sacs creatures. Kuon is nowhere near either erayo or braids. Sol ring seems to be an exception to the rule that ubiquitous cards get banned, so i dont know why its banned, mana vault is kind of a colourless black lotus that keeps pinging you early on until you set up the mana to utilise it again (however a point can be made for other things that untap it). Manabond, after reading it for the first time, seems really weak, bc you have to discard, and thats quite a bit of disadvantage unless you are specifically in grave decks, and even then they will miss their hand. By any chance did you mean Mana Crypt? I have no idea why this isn't banned, its like sol ring but infinitely better

[@16forthecar]

Hullbreacher is banned because it can continuously give you mana and stop draws, and because of its interaction with wheel spells. If you have 6 mana you cast WoF or Timetwister and while those are on the stack you flash in hullbreacher. Everyone discards, you draw 7, nobody else draws any, and you make 21 treasures. From there you win the game. If not that turn then the next. Also, if your opponent tries to play a draw spell or wheel spell you can just flash it in and the same thing happens. Card is both a stax piece and a combo piece. As for the other mana rocks not being banned, couldn't say. The rc and plenty of people in the community say they don't want "auto-includes", but honestly that's baked into the cake when you play a tcg. Some cards will always be better than other cards and will always be better in the format than others. If they banned all the current best mana rocks people will just play the next best ones. Honestly, the argument to ban certain rocks or other fast mana seems kinda pointless except in extreme cases.

[@PSroka]

Interesting that Academy is banned but Gaea's is okay. I know artifacts are different than creatures but in almost any commander deck both of these tap for way more than two

[@atheistsquid]

creature decks just aren't scary and there is a ton of creature removal in the format

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@atheistsquid the same can actually be said for artifact removal in every color and colorless

[@riddick1128]

Academy is banned because every word thats different between the two is better on academy.

[@leagreenall5972]

I, as a Captain Sisay player totally agree with you. Gaea's is the first card Sisay gets, and there is not one game that I don't get Gaea and tap for mass amounts of mana - 1-drop mana dorks that tap for mana THEN as a creature they add extra mana with Gaea's is pretty broken. I can actually see it getting banned soon since they do have 'Circle of Dreams' creature for GGG that is a Gaea's, and also 'Growing Rites of Itlimoc' which is a tutor on its own which then turns into a Gaea's. I don't want it banned, but I would understand if it was... and with the two aforementioned cards that do the same, I can see it been set up to being banned.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@leagreenall5972 Cabal Stronghold is a Black Gaea's Cradle but it only checks for swamps while also can tap for 1 colorless mana but there is a less expensive to activate card Cabal Coffers that does the same thing but it can't tap for colorless then of course you have those two lands on a stick as Magus of the Coffers And since land destruction is frowned upon for some dumb reason those 3 cards that i mentioned could be considered stronger

[@FertBert]

Thoracle hits so many of the bullet points on the list you gave up front. Can anyone give a reason why it shouldn't be banned?

[@simonteesdale9752]

Thoracle is currently on their watchlist, along with dockside and Tergrid. As for why it shouldn't be banned, the RC is hesitant to ban cards and it's not as ubiquitous as some of the other cards on this list were.

[@nickhughes8179]

Rudy from Alpha Investments, Mark Rosewater, Aaron Forsythe and Chris Cox all have Thoracle cEDH decks. That’s my guess

[@frankmagyar4212]

Dockside I can see being a revenue issue because they decided to reprint it for the 2XM cash grab. Thoracle isn’t that expensive so idk what justification they could possibly have on that

[@simonteesdale9752]

Can we please not blame cEDH for this? Thoracle is even more problematic in cEDH than normal. Also, the people you just named aren't on the RC, and have no say in the commander banlist. Hell, MaRo has repeatedly said that he doesn't play commander because he doesn't like politics when he plays.

[@K3fka_]

@@simonteesdale9752 Source: they made it up

[@mrw210]

While Hulk was one of the key combos, the big thing that makes flash broken is that putting the creature card directly into play is part of the effect. There's no potential for counterplay because you don't know what the caster getting from it until it is already resolving. Flash just has to be countered blindly or risk an immediate loss. In regards to Gifts Ungiven, I'm not certain what's so broken about that when we have Tooth and Nail letting you tutor up a combo wincon and put it directly into play.

[@nicholaswalker2278]

The difference is that gifts costs 4 mana instead of 9. I am surprised more people don't use Defense of the Heart which is often better then Tooth and Nail.

[@mrw210]

@@nicholaswalker2278 Biorhythm costs 8 and requires another card or board state to pull off a win. Coalition also costs 8 and and has board state requirements. Gifts only puts the cards in your hand, you still have to play them to win, plus it's known information so your opponents have a chance to react appropriately before you play the tutored cards. Tooth and Nail can immediately win the game for 9 mana, and is in the best ramp color. So its 1 mana more than other banned cards with no other setup/board state requirements to immediately combo off for the win. Defense of the Heart is the "Balanced" version of Tooth. Outside of flash/recursion hijinks It has to survive a full turn on the table, and is susceptible to enchantment removal while tooth can only be countered.

[@nicholaswalker2278]

@@mrw210 I would say that gifts ungiven is better then any of the other cards you listed because of being instead speed. If you don't have enough mana to play the cards you tutored then you can use gifts on the end step before your turn then go off from there. 8-9 mana non creature spells that win the game are quite clunky and difficult to use in actual play even with green ramp.

[@durza7173]

A large part of why gifts ungiven is used is because you can guarantee that cards go to your graveyard. Rather than finding four cards you can find only two which immediately go to your graveyard and you can probably win from there at instant speed for four mana.

[@Casi_Here]

Everytime someone reminds me that Biorythm is banned, my blood boils. I cannot comprehend how anyone thinks this card is good. Even with Evacuation!! You need 8 Mana to cast the Biorhythm + 5 to cast the Evacuation + a creature with Flash in order to win! That's (at least) 14 mana! Meanwhile Dockside Extorsionist can produce an egregious amount of mana while only costing 2 AND don't forget he can be reanimated, blinked, bounced etc... It's so silly

[@Greg501-]

Grandfather's clause thy name is the Commander banlist

[@adamm4942]

Hard agree. Out with dockside sol ring and mana crypt

[@paulszki]

@@adamm4942 I was considering buying dockside recently because with double masters 2022 it dipped hard. And then I remembered It's not even a fun card. It's just strong and doesn't make a game fun, it just gives me a huge advantage out of nowhere because it's overpowered. Same reason I'm not going to get Smothering Tithe or Cyclonic Rift. I've already decided not to run Sol-Ring anymore and If I'm not going to run Sol-Ring, then why run dockside extortionist? I'd rather get good dual lands for that money. It doesn't help that it just feels like a ban on these cards could come at any time. Like.... why is Mana Crypt still legal? That card is BETTER than Sol-Ring and Sol-Ring is already highly problematic.

[@StrykerLee]

@@paulszki 👏💯👍

[@Hyxtrem]

@@adamm4942 Well, sadly Sol Ring has been printed too much. I don't think we'll ever see Sol Ring Banned. I still hope for a Mana Crypt + Dockside BAN thought.

[@joeldykman7591]

Prophet of Kruphix wasn't just banned for being abusable, but for being in exactly the worst color combination to abuse that advantage. The problem simic had before prophet was that they couldn't really snowball safely because their creatures were sorcery speed thus they had to tap out on their turn, leaving them mostly defenseless and unable to hold up permission magic on the opponents turn. Now imagine being able to vomit on field and then untap on all your opponents turns, now all you're really missing is a decent draw engine.

[@josephsundblom6441]

Hi Nitpicks! After many years of my friend trying to convince me to join, I've finally started to play Commander. Your videos in particular helped me figure out which deck to start with. I appreciate your attention to detail, and your rankings & explanations of decks/cards.... so thank you! - Best Regards,

[@NitpickingNerds]

Glad to have you on board!!!

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

Blue seems guilty of a bunch of these commander rules. Repetitive? Cyclonic Rift, Thassa Oracle, Counterspell, Spellseeker, Mystical Tutor... Fun? Urza, Teferi... :P LOL

[@durarada]

Every color has tutors… and counters are only an issue to people who want to suffer no obstacles in their grand scheme wins lol

[@oponomo]

Actually Time Vault original text does say "to untap it, you must skip a turn." if was wizard of the cost opportunity to re-write that restriction in a better way, but instead they just translated it to "you may choose to skip a turn to untap it."

[@NitpickingNerds]

In there defense that was the intended wording

[@matthewbell4897]

Blind guessing the moxfield ad at 12:12

[@JustforKikX]

Grislebrand makes me sad because I have a Lilly tribal deck with contract as my win-con. Sadly he's the only one I can't add.

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

But technically wouldn’t channel be 39 mana because wouldn’t you die at 40

[@joebaumgart1146]

Extra turns are frowned upon. I got that. What about extended turns, like extra phases? Relentless Assault for example.

[@JetNAmplify]

i still think lutri should be un banned and just the whole companion mechanic should be banned instead. like commander doesnt even have a sideboard in the first place. they had to invent a whole new zone just to make it work.

[@adamm4942]

Bad take. If this is the line of thinking than partners should be banned as well.

[@K3fka_]

@@adamm4942 What? Partner was specifically designed for the format. Companions sit in your sideboard, which doesn't exist in Commander, and they made a special exception just for them. If Companions can work, then wishes should also work.

[@durarada]

@@adamm4942 I dont know what angle you’re taking this from, but partner doesnt give you a made up 101st slot in the deck. Partner commanders eat a slot out of your 99 first of all, and then they also have to synergize. Companion gives you a rule for deckbuilding (something you couldve done yourself) and rewards that minimum effort with a free extra card that shouldn’t be in the game. Horrible take.

[@simonchi5372]

So how is Thoracle not banned yet?

[@Gweezy12]

Thoracle isn't banned because thorcle is not the problem. Hermit druid, demonic consultation, turbo mill/exile is the problem. Thoracle will just be replaced by labman again and you guys will be mad at labman next.

[@andrewmoy548]

@@Gweezy12 thoracle is the problem card. Labman requires you to physically draw out but can be removed in response. Thoracle checks on ETB so with an empty library it still wins. It also means worse case scenario it can be played to fix draws. With it only costing 2 instead of 3 is a big difference.

[@Gweezy12]

@@andrewmoy548 Ok i play all the variants of labman the restiction to draw a card isn't a real limitation. Labman can be played and win instant speed on top of interaction because of turbo mill cards. The labman type cards are only as good as how fast you can mill or draw your deck. In casual thoracle isn't a problem. In CEDH it's the fastest win con, but its risky its sorta all in. Other combos in CEDH like hermit loops and underworld breach give you a lot of saftey. CEDH has the tools to deal with turbo mill.

[@brendans1983]

@@andrewmoy548 Oracle isn't the problem bro. U keep referring to it being easier to trigger than Labman, totally ignoring the fact you you have no library. How did you get no library? Usually paying one black mana and naming a card that isn't in your deck... It's the exploited 'exile your library cards' that are the problem. I play in a pod where you actually have to name a card in your deck if you DC or similar. Killed that combo in one sentence.

[@iswainbank]

@@Gweezy12 wait labman is way more fair than thoracle, a replacement would be a great thing!

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I’d argue for primeval titan being unbanned because it’s my favorite magic card, it died for the sins of cabal coffers, glacial chasm and gaea’s cradle. Also why is it banned if dockside is legal that card gives you way more mana

[@44Midfield]

Video 3 of guessing 1:09 (69 seconds) for the Moxfield ad. I'll get it one of these days...

[@NitpickingNerds]

I’m glad you’re keeping track of the days

[@jaimeabengoechea8463]

Did they talk about the cards that were banned for being “offensive”?

[@jaimepatenaude508]

They talk about them at the 3 minute mark

[@TheAngelRaven]

Still don't understand how Crusade if Cathars' Crusade is legal, or something like Tivadar's Crusade is legal. Some of the 'racist' card bans could easily be 'fixed' with an art change. It's not impossible to do.

[@Hazaak.]

they could be, but wizards never will because "oh they're still connected to a racist card"

[@atheistsquid]

@@Hazaak. the whole thing was nonsense virtue signalling

[@kurtilein3]

Arabian Nights is the only expansion that is set in the real world.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@atheistsquid finally someone who agrees with me and best part is no one played those old cards anyways so no one bats an eye

[@iswainbank]

i suspect it was cuz they had to ban jihad and so then to be logically consistent they had to ban crusade too. Now i don't agree with the crusade ban but I will say there were several cards on that list that CERTAINLY needed a ban

[@15ironreaver]

“Cause severe resource imbalance” Just got done playing a Titania deck where the dude drew most of his deck, double duped his mana pool, and had like 200 floating green every turn and all his permanents untapped on each player’s upkeep.

[@nicholasmckay625]

And you're telling me with that ban criteria that Thassas oracle isn't banned yet?

[@forestgilpin8849]

Very sad about the Golos Ban, not for me but for my friend who ran Monoblack Golos, his secret was that the real commanders Cabal Coffers tutored with Golos

[@jasonbuchanan7974]

I used to play Prophet of Kruphix in a Momir Vig deck until I found out it was banned. Momir and prophet together is STUPID good. All that mana, plus something to do with all that mana...oh yeah, and every creature is a tutor!

[@uchin1989]

Guys literally for my your channel is the best in MTG content

[@NitpickingNerds]

Aww thank you! We appreciate it

[@personsomeone2760]

i had a golos superfreinds deck. just for the mana fixing people say his activite ability is annoying of setting up the top of your deck to drop bombs but i literaly activated it once cause i had the mana

[@brendans1983]

Anyone here use Moxfield on their phone? Keen to hear some feedback, haven't got a PC and wasn't sure if a phone would be fun to navigate through, what sounds like, a lot of cool options.

[@napoearth]

I don't get why lutri is a problem. Are you saying that Commander allows companion cards to be played as companions so it'sa free extra card?

[@EDHCollector]

Haha awesome I just saw that Post Malone is a Patreon supporter of you in the "buy a CEDH Deck" Tier xD

[@Schnaqer]

25:30 yes Kenrith's color identity is 5 colors but it still only counts as white for coalition victory.

[@ChaoticKatana]

So on Recurring Nightmare 26:10 Tortured Existence seems like a very similar card in function. Potentially stronger if you are low enough CMC to take advantage. I understand anything into play is a recipe for disaster, but see their discussion on Flash. The Nerds say the really unfun thing is that you can loop it. I don't really get that. It's an Enchantment the whole point idea is that you have a reusable ability. My opinion is it should be unbanned. Even though it is sort of a 1 card combo I think there are plenty of equally unfair strategies in play that we deal with just fine. If they just banned Tortured Existence on principal that would be consistent at least.

[@crawdaddy2004]

I was once in a game at an LGS that som😅 as like, “Yea, so I saw this card, and I was like, ‘No one is playing this, which is weird.’” They, then go to cast Tinker. I, and someone who is a judge, were like, “Uhhhhhhhh.”

[@MitzaelSerna]

10:21 why Hullbreacher is banned and not Notion Thief? is due the trasure tokens?

[@zelvin5147]

what i don't get is that why is sway of the stars banned if Worldfire does pretty much the same effect but worse in every possible way? I think the bans here should be the other way around

[@yopman411]

I don't think Gifts Ungiven should be banned when Intuition isn't, it should be both or neither.

[@LeviClay]

VERY different cards. With intuition the opponent can look at your cards and say "you want that in your hand, so it's going in the graveyard" or "you want that in your graveyard, it's going to your hand." Gifts ungiven is UP TO 4 cards. You can just go get two card that you need in your graveyard and your opponent has no choice but to put them there for you.

[@yopman411]

@@LeviClay Gifts is only "better" for its flexibility, there are better cards for throwing into your yard and better cards for search+reanimation. There are almost the exact same Gifts is just more flexible, there are many cases where intuition is better and vice versa.

[@yopman411]

@@LeviClay They just aren't very different.

[@ovrava]

Jeah, Black Lotus and Mox's would be auto include in all my Commander decks.

[@derrickpaulson3093]

When the format first started many of the first cards were banned on price. Power “8” and Library of Alexandria were among them. As someone who has played a lot of vintage back in the day when it was Type one, Library did not go into all decks. If you were not control you did not run it. I’m ok with keeping it banned simply because of the cost and scarcity now, but power or thinking it is an auto include isn’t an argument I’d make. We have lands that are great and draw cards, such as War Room and not every deck runs them.

[@c-mac9902]

I have never played against a Library if Alexandria. I used to run it in my slower decks though. It was great drawing 2 every turn.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

I am against of banning or keeping something banned on cost and scarcity alone as there are a lot of cards that were expensive and scarce when that part of the banlist was a thing such as for some reason Timetwister one of the power 9

[@miekamariehodson1731]

someone played shahrazad in a 6 person commander game with a hive mind on board. we were so pissed

[@kurtilein3]

Oh shit.

[@TastesLikeNachos]

Honestly, Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and any subsequent prints of "commander ninjutsu" should get a tax to the ninjutsu cost/normal cast cost if they get sent back to the commander zone. I would say that as is, it's probably as broken as eminence.

[@dcdougherty8725]

I'm with you on the "Golos did nothing wrong" sentiment. While there were busted things that could be done with it, the same is true of a staggering number of commanders. My Golos 5C superfriends nonsense was my favorite deck, despite being one of my least competitive lists, but was utterly gutted by the loss of the Bot. There are a few possible replacements, but almost every aspect save for the planeswalkers themselves hinged on its activated ability; the prior Jodah is as close as I've gotten, and is but a pale reflection.

[@simonteesdale9752]

Here's one of the issues: What level would you rate your Golos super friends deck as? Because any deck with Golos is at least a 7. Kinda like how having Najeela as a commander gives you free wins, but instead of flooding the board T3-5, you just win almost any game that goes long.

[@dcdougherty8725]

@@simonteesdale9752 At most, I'd place it at around a 6-7 (my only deck which easily falls beneath that point is a novelty politics deck, at around a 4), with most of my primary playgroup (and consequently, my lists) aiming for 7-8. The upper bound for the Golos deck in question involved looping off nondeterministically around t4 (with a mathematically perfect hand/library order and zero interference), though across the dozens of games I played it never happened before t7-8, and could easily be disrupted before/during the process with several common classes of removal, counterspells, or hate-pieces. Ultimately, I believe that your assertion of 7 as a baseline assumes certain deckbuilding considerations within the 99 (such as grabbing powerful lands, whereas I intentionally limited first ability to fixing in this list, with the second ability serving as the deck's fulcrum); if my reading is off-base, please feel free to elaborate.

[@simonteesdale9752]

@@dcdougherty8725 Without any of the following lands, I *might* consider a Golos deck a 6. (Field of the dead (Zombies), World tree (colours don't matter), Bouncelands (no commander tax) or just good utility lands.) The reason I put Golos so high, is because he just wins the late game with random value and removing him barely helps. I've seen Golos chaos win by hitting Possibility storm + Minds dilation on turn 6. That deck was ~40 jank enchantments & Golos, and it didn't matter because when you are flipping the top 3 into play every turn it almost doesn't matter what it is. In your deck, how likely was Golos to hit a Planeswalker & a board wipe and just win the game? Did you ever run out of stuff to do in a game? Does not having Golos change any of these?

[@luisdayvid]

Love this channel!

[@GoldenGamer789]

Watched the whole video but maybe I missed it, did the Nerds talk about why Wish effects are banned? That category of ban is hotly debated in my playgroup

[@ryanchristenson1059]

I think it comes from the base rules of commander, cards in no form can come outside of the game, its not like that because it’s op or anything, just the rules from when it was made. My friends let me play the card Legion Angel, even though that’s not supposed to work

[@GoldenGamer789]

@@ryanchristenson1059 Right, our debates are why that reasoning should/shouldn't exist. As wishes aren't on the actual ban-list, they are just ruled as nonfunctioning. The pro-wishes player dislikes how it sets the standard for disallowing the mechanic in pickup games.

[@krackergrit]

because commander dont have a side board

[@krackergrit]

no side boards in edh thats why

[@AlienCowThatMoos]

They're not banned are they? I believe you can cast one, it resolves and does nothing.

[@joebaumgart1146]

I personally think CEDH and EDH should be completely separate formats like Vintage and Legacy. I'm not a fan of Commander for several reasons, but the lack of centralized governance is one of the top 3.

[@dragade101]

Can you Upheaval and then Teferi Protection (while Upheaval is on the stack) yourself away? Meaning all of your goodies are phased out and not bounced? That’s pretty gross if that’s the interaction.

[@theemulordv1860]

yes you can, a lot of cards can be protected against in that specific way.

[@swissgamewonder]

Still don't get some of the bans. Why is "mass bounce spell + cast a creature + cast Biorythm" for like a total of 15 mana worse than a 3 mana Demonic Consultation into Thassa's Oracle?

[@joeldykman7591]

biorhytm is easily the most unbannable card on the ban list IMO. Its also the one card on that list that would be easiest to backfire. Lets just assume the ideal sequence happens. Now they have to dodge FOW if theres a blue player because you literally gave them fuel to pitch to it. OR what about the white and red MH2 elementals? Im just not scared of being blindsided by biorythm.

[@Roll-Penut]

On panoptic mirror, the reason it's banned is: "During Atlanta playtesting, Sheldon and Gis played 1-vs.-1 EDH with 100 life totals. After these games, they decided the card ought to go."

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

So im going to say up front this is just a difference in opinion, but i still disagree with refellos being banned even with your reasoning. When it comes down to it the most busted rofellos hand still will never compete with the most busted hand in marwyn or selvala and those to can still provide way more mana throught the course of the game. I dont thing ease of use should be the deciding factor here for what is just a similar commander to stuff we already have.

[@SWAT6809]

Its about the fact that the "busted" hand they described consists of 3 basics, not specific singleton cards

[@earthbowser1493]

Prior to Rofellos being banned, my friend played a Rofellos deck. It was just miserable to play against. Basically we all had to hope someone had early removal, otherwise the game was just over.

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

@@SWAT6809 when you put it like that i guess it makes sense but still even with that i dont think rofellos is anywhere near as busted as a bunch of currently legal commanders.

[@brendans1983]

@@skullkrusher-dx4kg SkullCrusher was the best weapon in Morrowind. Had to levitate up to that chest above all the lava to get it. Aaah, good times

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

@@brendans1983 10/10 you are the best person on the internet.

[@noahlowrie6742]

really throwing us off with these moxfield times.. I wasnt even close

[@rthayes00]

Look at that fly cut on Beezy

[@videogamescoverftw]

I would honestly love time vault if they errata time vault to have shroud. Its not really a good idea unless it stops seeing play in vintage though, to avoid messing with the one format its legal. An alternative would be printing a throwback version costed at 4 or 5 mana with shroud. It would still be great because of cards like seedborn muse, unwinding clock, curse of bounty, dramatic reversal, turnabout, etc but i think it would be in the realm of playable and not busted. The concept at its core is super fun, its just far to easy to abuse.

[@Rattan-Rat]

Unwinding clock still works

[@videogamescoverftw]

@@Rattan-Rat I literally said that

[@goliathsteinbeisser3547]

t1 Tinker into Paradox Engine or Bolas' Citadel just might win on turn 1.

[@doktarr]

Coalition Victory would be fun if it was an Enchantment that won the game on your upkeep. Should probably say Devotion to creatures includes WUBURG instead of just is that color. Could probably drop the 3 generic from the cost, too.

[@thechestrockfield]

Beezy was correct, yes? Color identity and color are different.

[@reddragonminecraftmodsandm4366]

Good old Yarok sylvan Promordial…

[@leocoelho12]

crusade being banned is not rightful at all, I'm still mad

[@brianlinden3042]

Crusade and Cleanse are both insane. The others mostly make sense, though.

[@leocoelho12]

@@brianlinden3042 100%

[@ODIRGO]

I don't understand the ban of the sub game card. Nowadays decks are all about subgames. You have cards that put other cards aside to play later, there are ventures into the dungeons, there are cards that force all players to play coin flip games etc...

[@NitpickingNerds]

It becomes really impractical and difficult to resolve, plus you can start copying and recasting the spell to just waste infinite time

[@mikastrae]

Sway the Stars doesn't remove commander damage or infect, so it's also kind of just easy to kill someone with it

[@mikastrae]

also doesn't remove the commander tax

[@FrostSylph]

I don't play a lot of magic now but I played MTGA around 2020 and in Brawl I saw golos everywhere. I've forgotten most of the specifics of the games I played back then but I just saw golos so much playing brawl that seeing the art my immediate reaction is "oh right, that damn card."

[@MTG69]

Joe's hair looks like he just got out of a high speed convertible ride...

[@ScreamingSecrets]

I have to disagree with why Paradox Engine is banned. It got banned right around the same time that mono blue Urza came out. Which fair, that deck would be miserable. But the reasoning being that the turns would take too long?? There are plenty of legal cards where turns take too long. Just look at Ad Nauseum, Dramatic Reversal/Isco Scepter (does the same thing for cheaper mana), Lim-Dul's Vault, Scroll Rack Decks, Underworld Breech and Brain Freeze just to name a few.

[@kwagmeijer26]

rofellos was in fact legal in the 99 but just banned as a commander when banned as commander was a thing. I miss banned as commander, bring it back!

[@wakefieldwade4019]

Oh how I miss Golos.... That hybrid Mana deck was special

[@jasonbuchanan7974]

My buddy switched his Golos maze' end deck into a Garth maze's end deck with very few changes necessary, and he likes it better than Golos.

[@stickofbutter4144]

I still am confused about some cards on the ban list. If you really wanted to, you can just play magus of balance. Sure it costs more mana, but it still does the same effect. Why should it not be banned as well?

[@NitpickingNerds]

They often ban cards as a suggestion or signpost as to what effects “violate” the core tenants of the format. It’s not something we really agree with, but it’s why you see things like Sway of the Stars banned and not Worldpurge

[@willowdelosrios4326]

It’s also way easier for most decks to deal with creatures than instants, sorceries, or even enchantments and artifacts. Most colors get access to ways of removing or neutralizing creatures (green gets fight spells, red gets burn and betrayal effects, white gets stuff like oblivion ring or faiths fetters, black gets kill spells, and blue gets counterspells and bounce effects).

[@simonteesdale9752]

Magus costs 5 extra Mana, and has to sit on the board as a vulnerable creature for a turn. It's like comparing Leaden Myr to Mox Jet. Sometimes it's about a combination of power level, effect and interactability.

[@fgzgeimv8u]

in multiplayer games balance was never a problem before commander. it is always a risk. you may lose the card you want to play or someone may remove your big creatures or someone sacrifices all lands. most of the time it is only a worse Armageddon. the card and how it was played changed with rules changes.

[@corkimus]

What makes Protean Hulk so powerful? Seems pretty ok for what it is.

[@Hexxecutioner]

It leads to various infinite combos.

[@flangwang]

Can't you say flash was banned because it wins out of nowhere? You don't need a board state just blue and 1 and 2 cards in hand

[@geamckay]

Im confused why braids is banded and smokestack is legal still.

[@1973mckenzie]

How is Erayo banned but Glass Spinner is not? Paradox Engine and Prophet of Kruphix banned but unwinding clock isn't? Biorhythm banned but Worldfire isn't? Craterhoof Behemoth should have made that list. I threw a Sadistic Sacrament into my deck and my playgroup was not happy when I pulled 15 cards out of their deck (Golgari Deck). I'm sure if a card like that became meta, it too would be banned. I agree there should be a banned list, however all it does in my opinion is follow the meta (look to stoneforge mystic as an example)

[@AnarchyintheUK1]

Had a friend play an Iona against me (I was playing mono-green elves) and still managed to pull out a victory, but it was a fucking up hill struggle for awhile.

[@danielbennett5273]

Paused at 0:44 to guess on the Moxfield ad. 16:47

[@MTG69]

Anyone have a Chaos Orb, that they would be willing to flip onto the battlefield?

[@deeterful]

I play Old School 93/94 format. Orb is legal there and almost everyone plays it. Orbs hitting the table all the time.(there is format specific errata making a more sane card)

[@MTG69]

@@deeterful Daniel, I have a MP Chaos Orb that I love. The fact that it has caused chaos on many battlefields throughout the years, makes me like it that much more, than a Gem Mint 10, stuck in a fricking slab of plastic.

[@SnuggyDabbins]

The best land to grab with golos is valakut hands down.

[@switchp8286]

It's important to remember that EDH is a casual format. You can play it competitively, sure, but at it's core it's not meant to be that serious. Meaning that the banlist really should be treated as a suggestion, rather than a rule. If a playgroup is cool with playing with banned cards, great. Of course the issue is that it's hard to convince a playgroup when RC says a card isn't allowed.

[@maggiek8616]

Rofellos was actually legal in the 99 originally and I don't believe it caused any issues. Nowadays, with people playing 3, 4 or 5 colors I think Rofellos would be absolutely fine. However the RC has never banned or unbanned a RL card since the removal of "banned as commander" list and don't see this changing due to the amount of money involved. I think Karakas could probably be trialed off the ban list. I know originally the intent was to prevent bouncing commanders, but these days we have so many other legendary creatures that bouncing would be pretty good, and would give white decks a little bit of a push. Funny you mention the scenario involving Sylvan Primordial. I was playing a 4 way 2HG Commander game, cast this turn 4 destroyed 6 permanents. Next turn sacrificed and reanimated it, the table conceded. If they could errata this card to "destroy up to one" like the rest of the cycle, and no ramping at all. Might be balanced enough, as you could hit the biggest threats your opponents have, and not have to screw over a player who's already behind. Leovold, like Braids and Rofellos I think would be 100% okay in the 99 just not as commander. And similar vein, Luttri in the 99 would be fine.

[@louischandler4611]

I agree with the cards in the 99, but Karakas is incredibly powerful. Its one of the easiest cards to tutor, being a land, and is a repeatable bounce every turn for effectively 1 white mana, and an even bigger problem is what you mentioned, it will have SO many more targets these days that it would be even more of an auto include in every deck using white as virtually free removal, especially those that are also green (even more land tutoring). I dont think Karakas could ever come back, even if it had a clause stating it couldnt bounce commanders, because its virtually free in every regard, and taps for coloured mana immediately if you need it

[@JR-xv6mv]

That's what Time Vault used to say, and it was basically unplayable in vintage back then (as it should be). Check the history of its oracle text. It's wild.

[@riddick1128]

every single time theyve tried to fix time vault theyve broken something else

[@hip5702]

So sad that Sylvan Primordial is banned. Would be awesome in cEDH, but guess casual EDH can't handle it.

[@moxavenger]

Still legal and totally unfun: Narset, Parter of Veils with Timetwister (still legal in Commander) or Wheel of Fortune.

[@Hyxtrem]

Yes it is unfun, and yes the combo is strong. But I think it's not banned because you do need to put Narset on board first, then cast a Wheel effect, so there is a window to shut her down ; it's vulnerable and can't defend herself. Finally it doesn't WIN you the game. Yes its hard for other people to come back, but most of the time you're the archenemy and if you don't have a wincon after this combo, you're in trouble. It's nothing like Flash Hulk combo for exemple. We could see Narset ban because it's really unfun (but I don't believe it will happen), but it's not too strong.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@Hyxtrem dude the same with Hullbreacher can be said even if he can give you a ton of treasure tokens just sit there hope you draw you combo cards or more wheels

[@Hyxtrem]

@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena Hullbreacher was way worse because it had Flash tho

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@Hyxtrem that is not why it was worse. It says "If they would draw a card except in each of their draw steps, "Instead" you create a Treasure token". The flash does not matter it is the replacement clause that makes the card super broken, Narset does not do that they just can't draw extra cards with her out not put you way ahead of the game for the same mana cost even without flash Hullbreacher was busted to just cast at Sorcery speed. Like literally Hullbreacher would not have been banned if it was not for that replacement effect it would have been like every other wheel lockdown. Now if it would have not put "Instead" and just read like "If they would draw a card except in each of their draw steps, you create a Treasure token" then it would have been fine and not banned. Like opposition Agent is not banned and it has Flash however it does not give you resources to cast the cards you stole from your opponent otherwise it would have been banned just like Hullbreacher. Again gaining free mana without a drawback is really strong and a draw back for Hullbreacher would have been opponents gets to keeps the cards they drawn

[@kovala]

Moxfield added default printings!? YES

[@Its109TheGamer]

The way you talked about biorythem makes me think of craterhoof behemoth where you get a win out of nowhere

[@jakefeingold1126]

It’s not really a win out of nowhere, if you’re playing against a green deck and see that they have ten creatures on board, that signals to you a win could be coming because creature based green decks often win through some type of pump swing

[@durarada]

honestly if you watch a green deck build a board state that packed with creatures and dont wipe it, you deserve to lose to the craterhoof player lol. Once a green player reaches 6-8 creatures out, its time to politic to clear their board

[@Its109TheGamer]

@@durarada and if you watch a combo player build a board state that is packed with a sac outlet and an Enduring Renewal and don't wipe it, you deserve to lose to the Rograkh infinite player lol. Once a combo player reaches 2 cards, it's time to politic and clear their board

[@ElementWrath]

So I looked this up at length before while workshopping my Ramos, Dragon Engine deck. A permanent is the colors in its mana cost, NOT the mana used to cast it, NOT its color identity. Hybrid Mana makes it both colors. Phyrexian mana is uses the colored mana portion of the cost. Unless otherwise stated by the card's rules text as in "[Cardname] is all colors" Probably for the best because if I could give Ramos 5 counters with like a 2 mana artifact with WUBRG in its rules text, as amazing as that would be, it would also be pretty broken.

[@ElementWrath]

Specifically, this means Kenrith is a White creature, not all colors.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Joe was just joking around, we know about the difference, but it was kinda confusing

[@ElementWrath]

@@NitpickingNerds wasn't sure if you guys knew either way, but I figured it was better for you and your audience to find out in the KZbin Comments rather than in a Commander pod on turn 6 with a misbuilt deck.

[@harry503]

Why print the card if you can't play them

[@NitpickingNerds]

The people who print the cards and ban the cards are actually two separate entities in the case of Commander!

[@samuelboisvert5811]

Bring back Lutri!! Just not as a companion - only as one of the 99 or commander

[@Lovuschka]

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant sounds like a really good card for 2HG.

[@miasmicdreamer]

I have a soft spot for Karakas, I think if rules decided it didn't work specifically on commander creatures it would be okay. I use it for my own safety 90% of the time anyway

[@benghis_kaan]

RIP Lutri, I wish they would have just banned it as a companion

[@Kurotekken]

What happened to the theme music?

[@Jeskai]

i played Prophet of Kruphix in standard, 4 of them, i miss her xD

[@dominicstevenson8932]

I hate the land destruction bans - let resources be limited, especially when there's so many ways to just drop an instant win on the board.

[@magiccardmaster9921]

I actually liked hullbreacher not because of the wheel stuff but because it can just shut down any stupid dumb card draw machine that your opponent does

[@somedudeontheinterwebs45]

Play narset lol

[@brendans1983]

I flashed it in and blocked a Yuriko to death once, was sooo good 🤣🍻