Which fan blows hardest -- Tower fans and regular fans

[@ThisOldTony]

clever thrust measuring setup!

[@k20nutz]

Somebody get Integza on the horn

[@ekstrapolatoraproksymujacy412]

actually its flawed, fan is lifting itself a bit when producing thrust because its moving around a pivot point which is short, you might think its neglibigle, but thrust to weight ratio of those fans is so low that I think its not negligible at all.

[@Don.Challenger]

Well, of course, the thrust characteristic of that type of thrust - if you can remember back when, Old Tony.

[@Rich-on6fe]

@@ekstrapolatoraproksymujacy412 good point but it will depend on how much give there is in the electronic scale. They're pretty stiff.

[@fredio54]

You promised to hire that young guy that faked your style a while back next time you went AWOL - I hope his contract is signed and his first upload to your channel is coming soon ;-)

[@Sceme1991]

That plastic bag demonstration was quite impressive. Really nicely demonstrates the difference

[@tmmtmm]

A question remains - if it moves "10 times the air at 1/10th the speed because of conservation of momentum" then how does it fill the bag faster? 1/10th of 10 is 1.

[@litbmeinnick]

@@tmmtmm maybe there's a kind of saturation effect. If you blow on the same spot always, air will stack up and exert back pressure and push air outside again. If air blows at the complete cross section, there's no such effect.

[@shazam6274]

the "magic" of entrained fluidic flow; in this case air.

[@jimdonny]

Bernoullis principle in action

[@xFlRSTx]

@@tmmtmm idrk but i think its because when u blow it inside like the first test, the energy is wasted by bouncing hard off the back of the bag and de-cohering into chaotic swirls. when u blow further away it can turn into a big slow moving sort of piston that can push all the air thats already in the bag and turns the energy that was a quick bounce off the back of the bag into a gradual softened push of all the air already in the bag. so it turns the energy into something thats harder to be wasted in the back of the bag when it just becomes swirly. also i think the piston effect helps it go faster because it can fill it faster than the air is even moving by pushing existing air already in there.

[@AtomsLab]

I am a big fan of this series, it really blows other comparisons away. It's a breath of fresh air!

[@TH-bj1pb]

#metoo

[@jimthesoundman8641]

I think you are full of hot air.

[@jeffreybell436]

We need a channel "Matthias - Only Fans"

[@willhaney96]

I see what you did thair.

[@Paxmax]

When it comes to tech reviews this channel provides a wind of change! I also appreciate the gusty move of going all wood solution for thrust-o-meter. Ok ok, to weather the storm..! I know I spelled it wrong! I don't need to try to be a blowhard, I think it comes naturally..! 🤔 Oh, wait...

[@lutheduck]

I knew Matthias had a huge fan base but it really blew me out how big it actually is :D

[@MrSatchelpack]

Get off the internet dad.

[@Gin-toki]

One of them is even an online fan :P

[@ronidepaula8067]

He definitely has lot of fans! 😅

[@tonyhuang431]

#onlyfans

[@BesthanddryerakaWDA]

@@ronidepaula8067 On KZbin too

[@snookstuh170]

These are the kind of videos KZbin was made for.

[@MandoFettOG]

I love these videos, feels like a sequel to your one a few years ago about the best fan placement in proximity to a window. Very interesting and truly useful information for those who are technically inclined.

[@TuProk]

I actually bought this Dreo fan a few weeks ago from seeing your coverage of their Air Purifier, and I have to say I'm not disappointed. One thing you didn't touch on too much is the noise level, but I can't believe how well it blows for being quiet too. I like the white noise when sleeping, but in my office I appreciate less background noise

[@luc9001]

He did in his last video

[@TuProk]

@@luc9001 oh, good call, nothing super scientific but noise is hard that way anyway, thanks

[@pjmtts]

I’m using your trick to point the fan to blow at the window and boy does it work so well. So far no AC this year, holding out for July or later. 🥵

[@leiwa100]

You are building quite the fan base with these empirical experiments. Very interesting to learn what is better/different.

[@WookieChewie13]

Pun intended ?😂

[@Haarhzh]

This is data about which I’ve been wondering for quite a while, but for which I never took the time to make the necessary experiments. Thanks for doing the work and for sharing the results!

[@timfischer]

As I posted on your other video, your Dreo talk was enough to get me to buy... and I usually don't jump at buying sponsored content products lol. But I love that it's able to be set in a corner and perform virtually as well as a propeller fan, and look much better doing so.

[@Fuogor]

You touched on this, but what about plotting thrust versus power draw, to see how efficient each fan/fan type is at producing wind?

[@AdityaMehendale]

Thrust, not only against power-draw, but also vs. noise-level. Alas, too "grindy" a test for MW, I suspect.. Perhaps this is something for ProjectFarm instead..

[@jakefriesenjake]

@@AdityaMehendale plus versus weight, size, cost, watts, thrust, noise, and fan spread area (fan not oscillating) We need to know this!

[@TheFanUniverse]

I guess each fans have their good & bad. Seems like it’s an issue that manufacturers are seriously looking into as nowadays you can get traditional desk/pedestal fan with propeller blades that have like 30 speeds & a brushless motor. I feel like tower fans never really catch on because of their weird wind pattern & the fact that they generally can’t point up & down, but I think Dreo is up to something here. I’d still take a traditional propeller blade fan over tower fans any day though.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

There are some places where a tower fan fits better with the decor. I think that's a big factor.

[@TheFanUniverse]

That's true

[@andyb2339]

The tower fans are also a centrifugal type which seem to be favored for producing quieter white noise. My fancy air purifier uses this type in combination with a resin-packed brushless motor and you can barely hear it. I like the vertical form factor. Would actually buy this Dreo model if it came in white.

[@andrew40]

I like a tower fan because of large vertical area of air moved. It can set behind my desk, and it blows on all of me, legs and arms. It doesn't need to cover a wide area, and doesn't even need to oscillate. The room doesn't need air moving. I'm just after accelerated perspiration evaporation.

[@MandoFettOG]

@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 my wife agrees

[@mjarmd9814]

Although it was briefly discussed, evaluating the series of fans in regard to a ratio of some sort such as thrust to overall noise (turbulent flow, motor hum, etc.) may be interesting and potentially useful in helping decide which fans may be more appropriate or desired in particular scenarios; e.g summer workshop vs studying area or office in which zoom conferences may be held and the fan noise might be bothersome

[@ChertineP]

I agree, especially since one of the selling points of the Dyson is that it is so quiet

[@kpv123]

I agree too, but the problem with the Dyson is that it's noisy not quiet like they claim, unless you have it down on a super low setting which makes it pretty useless, hence a ratio comparison would have been good

[@MartinShorthose]

Well this little ad campaign has worked. Amazon listing the fan as out of stock right now. Oddly quite important for me is whether you can turn off the display. My wife won't sleep with a fan emitting even the slightest light! Great test - well thought through, as always

[@Kineth1]

I love that my Honeywell air filter let's you turn off the indicators.

[@jameskirk3210]

My wife too, but she can also sleep in an armchair with full light.🤣🤣🤣

[@MartinShorthose]

@@jameskirk3210 Haha! Same here!

[@keto2240]

This is a mad genius video... I bloody love it! The only thing missing (and something VERY important to me) is noise level too. If you had included actual db levels... this would have been hands down the most amazing fan video on all of KZbin!

[@user93237]

Would have been interesting to see some thrust vs dB measurements and thrust vs W.

[@Nick-HBC]

Where else would you find woodworking, and fan thrust measurements!? I totally love this nerdy integration.

[@knasbollolo]

Really love this kind of content. It's obvious you are very intelligent, with how you construct all your tests, so it makes for great trustworthy content.

[@DarthRelkew]

This is one of the best demonstrations of the scientific method!

[@Sandreas95]

Bought a cheap fan yesterday and I'm pleased to say that watching this video didn't fill me with regret

[@aa-ron2243]

THANKS DREO!! this is important stuff. now we need a video on hand fans and high velocity fans

[@J3assbox]

This stuff here is why i love youtube, so glad i found a new good channel to watch. Its like "Technology Connections" but way more practical.

[@Lizlodude]

I just want to take a moment to appreciate that you get to do this as a job. That's awesome.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

The fan I used was the Dreo Pilot max tower fan Get the fan using this link: woodgears.ca/dr/tf 15% discount code for Dreo website, valid until Nov 15 2022: 9RP733E2X9Z0

[@pofjiosgjsoges]

Amazing video, and it was an ad. Love it! I use classic fan with DC motor, can go very slow and is whisper quiet, perfect for night use.

[@Don.Challenger]

Matthias, you have been reluctant to get into sponsorship arrangements for a long time, luckily Dreo has product with suitable qualities and capabilities worthy of your involvement and, with thought, made both entertaining and understandable enough that your audience approves. Now, if only, some intelligent mice and manic marbles could be added into the mix.

[@galidroo]

These videos are great and I love your in depth analysis but you should mention the sponsorship at the start of the video

[@pippibird7426]

Thank you for the garbage-bag filled with compressed air/compressed air from a distance. That helped me in my own project.

[@FamilyWinn]

Your workshop/lab looks like a great enjoyable place. Always enjoy your videos.

[@FiliusFidelis]

as you were touching on, the problem with traditional propeller style fans is that they usually have 3 settings, and even the lowest one blows really quite hard. Often one just wants a nice gentle breeze. I use a towerfan with 8 settings, much nicer. It also has an ionizer which is surprisingly good at neutralizing bad smells like smoking neighbors.

[@KimHarderFog]

An interesting thing to test, is the power/dba, so what produces the most cooling, with the lowest noise

[@kk10494]

Did you know the Dreo fans were actually good products before accepting their sponsorship and doing these videos? Or did it come as a pleasant surprise?

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

They sent me the fan first, without any commitment.

[@kk10494]

@Texan Child Oh that wasn't the intention at all. I just thought it was interesting that of all the crap people promote on youtube, Matthias managed to get behind something that is a good product, and demonstrated it so empirically. In fact if I were in the market for a fan like this I'd just get the Dreo lol

[@briantaylor9266]

Is the next in the series a comparison of thrust versus amps? That would give a raw measure of efficiency in creating air movement.

[@antraxxslingshots]

2:47 i love how such a thorough guy like Matt dropped that his platform move without friction :)

[@RubenTheCartographer]

Ahhh well relative between each fan it does! So who cares haha

[@TheFreeBro]

I never knew how bad I wanted a random “natural” wind speed for a fan before today. I love this style of sponsorship

[@benjaminbrewer2154]

You sold me on more box fans. I like simple.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

but loud and hard to aim

[@NoferTrunions]

Finally, someone using thrust (!) WELL DONE! Would love to see how the old Westinghouse high pitch propeller fans in the shrouded cases with radial inlet guide vanes would fare. Their tiny 8 or 10" would blow a silent breeze 20' away (!) Also high velocity propeller Honeywell and Vornado.

[@TheCatanzaroShop]

These videos are always a great application of the scientific method and I love that!

[@billverant7225]

Bought this fan and returned it immediately. Fan had a grinding noise that could be heard at all speeds. Never spent so much for a fan before, figured I'd splurge and was immediately punished with a defective unit. Not going to bother with a replacement, just going to get my money back and use what I had before.

[@JaMaMaa1]

Enjoy to see more fan meetups in the future. Had no clue you had so many fans living near you!

[@adamflyshotmail]

It is pretty cool of the sponsor to just let themselves be beat by a box fan in a video ostensibly showcasing their product. Lol

[@MrTtsolo]

I’m actually quite surprised to be interested by an only fans vidéo ! Nice !

[@shaidyn8278]

Nice to see the box fan do so well. I have an old box fan (we literally call it boxy) and it's amazing in the summer.

[@kaizen9860]

👍👍👍 I really like the explaination. This man take fan seriously.

[@gannas42]

Interesting information that seems to confirm my gut instincts regarding box fans... thanks for the extra testing you've done here!

[@R0STR0P0VIC]

Should't the thrust experiment take into account the weight of the fan itself? The force produced by the thrust is actually lifting the weight of the fan at the same time as It is acting against the weight scale.

[@TJStellmach]

The platform can't actually move much while it's coupled to the scale though, can it? Aside from whatever flex there is in the coupling itself and the surface of the scale.

[@NicosLeben]

I don't think it makes much difference, as the fan only moves as much as is needed to measure pressure at the scale. And that will be a maximum of one millimeter.

[@mieguistumas]

It should. The swing configuration needs to move backwards to push on the scale. While the scale provides the same amount of resistance, the swing is not going to work the same. A very heavy fan could probably produce Dyson levels of airflow while giving no thrust measurements in this setting.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

I showedi t swinging to show how it works, but it doesn't actually swing, cause the scale blocks it from swinging.

[@syber-space]

@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Wouldn't the fan's weight still cause a slight counterforce to the movement measured by the scale? It's nearly moving horizontally, but there still is a tiny bit of vertical movement given the swing design. Likely the easiest way to be sure would be to place a few bricks on the swing with a fan and see if the measurement changes much. It might be negligible, but I'm not good enough at estimation to say for sure that the weight couldn't affect such a small measurement. Great video as always!

[@HenningAndersen]

I love the pushback measurement idea, but could the weight of the fans themselves affect the measurements? It takes more energy to move a heavier fan

[@michaellundgren6949]

You could test that by adding dead weight and seeing if it affects the measured thrust

[@briantaylor9266]

I think in this case it's likely a 2nd order effect. Some of the force is used to lift the fan as the swing arm moves backward, but since that displacement is very small (restrained by the platen of the scale) the effect is correspondingly small and can be ignored. But your question does suggest an alternative way to measure the thrust. If the swing arm was unrestrained, one could measure the displacement and compute the thrust accounting for the fan weight. This, however, would not be my first choice of methodology.

[@joshuamiddleton5274]

I think that the weight is negligible. The amount of force required to hold that platform at the

[@markfisher7962]

Wonderful ingenuity of the test setups! I'd like to see a tabulation of thrust vs power and thrust vs noise.

[@ehhhhhhhhhh]

I'm curious about thrust per decibel, as well as wattage at the lowest settings. Would be nice to have a quiet circulating fan that uses as little power as possible. Dreo was totally off my radar, except that I remember seeing their Amazon reviews were absurdly good. Nice to see that your conclusion matches the reviews.

[@surfcello]

Fantastic analysis. Now what I want in an office environment is usually for the air around me to be exchanged with fresh air gradually and quietly. I imagine a steady laminar flow would be ideal. I wonder how these fans compare in terms of turbulence.

[@trep53]

I liked the group shot of all the fans, looks like a motley crew at a pub.

[@thsfl23]

Glad to see that you have so many fans now :)

[@rob4197]

The weights of the fans have a huge impact on the thrust numbers for this test.

[@MightyFake]

Incredible work😮

[@enoniemschybaniewiem1847]

You have a room full of fans. You must be very popular.

[@absolutem31]

He must be really cool

[@zayicza]

Now this is the content a fan fan likes to see

[@datageek9132]

You can easily swap the fan blades on the pedestal fans. Please swap the strongest fan blade to the weakest one and test it.

[@davidotterstetter3829]

I love the sound of the fan, the louder the better in my eyes

[@riba2233]

Nice test, it would be interesting to see them normalized for noise and watts

[@mayureshkulkarni99]

This guy certainly has a lot of Fans!!

[@1HiddenSecret]

I used a three phase industrial motor and a attached a huge belt drive wheel to the spindle and then used a belt on a smaller adjacent belt drive wheel with a fan blade attached..... needless to say the wind blew the window frames off my sill but the suction was mad.... paper would fly out of other rooms and stick to the cage.... unbelievable!

[@bbg5000]

Dyson is just doing that air effect you talked about (bernoullis principle) in a shorter distance. So it's good for smaller rooms.

[@Mike-NP]

Should try with a Vornado. They're not made to be quiet but they move a lot of air over a long distance.

[@IroncladIntegrationUser]

Great setup. Pure data, no opinions. That's scientific approach.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

Ooh! Youve got to include Vornados next. Those are powerful desktop fans.

[@loodusefilm7881]

What about Matthias Wandel fans?

[@yangguan4070]

Learnt something new today!!

[@zizibe218]

your experiments always amaze me!

[@msr1116]

A tower fan positioned across the room produces a gentle, continuous breeze, which helps tremendously in summer when the a/c is running on low.

[@swecreations]

The Xiaomi SmartMi Smartfan series is definitely among the best and I'd say better than your top pick, it had 100 adjustable speed settings on the higher end fans and can be battery powered so you can use them wirelessly if you want. Also cheaper than $100. Use mine in the bedroom all the time.

[@RacerX1971]

Did you try the Vornado brand. I have a couple and seems like it very efficient

[@MatterLabz]

Great idea on the trash bag demo.

[@teliots]

Does the mass of the fan make a difference with your thrust measuring setup? I'm curious if you would get the same measurement if the fans were set on top of weights to normalize them.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

doesn't make a difference. The fan doesn't actually move back because the scale prevents it from moving back. Also, I tare the scale to zero before the fan is turned on.

[@neilfranciotti1020]

@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 can you calculate cfm directly from that force measurement?

[@rustlebruxz0013]

You should include a Vornado fan. They blow a narrow column of air so the wind front won't be as wide.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

haven't got one

[@williammiller7543]

@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Costco, on sale $40 . Circulating fans or is it just hype? Seems to work for me in my basement finished area. Without the fan can have a 71*F at ceiling to 68*F and floor level. With small fan blowing from 30' the stratification goes away. Small 9" fan on next to next slowest speed out of 4 speeds. I chose this speed based on 0 stratification at the lowest sound level. I did some quick measurements and 590 ft/min at 1ft away @77*F, 216ft/min @10ft @ center of stream. On high speed 1024ft/min @1 ft. 334@10'. The stream is focused and seems to travel a long way, they claim 30'.

[@robbykidman]

I think I watched a different only fans channel. But i love this 😂 so informative and it's not even biased

[@damiana5268]

Im not sure how much it would change the results if any, but removing the front cage of propeller fans drastically changes the airflow. Im not sure how much removing the backcage will do. I keep the back on in case something falls on it.

[@Heartsanime]

Good experiment in the force of air produced but to truly get the output of the fans would you not need to take into account the weight and center of gravity and positioning of the fan propellors etc? As your rig more was suited to measuring force rather than total windage from the wind reader? I know you explained at 2:18 to 2:43 that overall thrust is the most "important" measurement but do you not have to take into account the oscillation of each fan? And you also need the xyz from the height of the fans relative to the door and or windows of the room? As your previous fan experiments showed that intake from outside air is less effective than putting a fan 30-50cm away from the window as well as the width of each propeller and also the curvature of each blade? etc etc

[@cleon_teunissen]

I use the propellor type fan without the protective cage. Matthias, would you be interested in measuring the difference in performance with and without the protective cage? Of course, in your household, with young kids, not using the cage is out of the question. But I never come in the vicinity of the fan, so in my specific case the protective cage would be an unnecessary impediment. I have one cheap propellor type fan, and two propellor type fans that were marketed as 'whisper silent'. (Luxury price level, the brand name is 'Duux') And they are in fact whisper silent, when running at slow setting. Ludicrously many speed levels: 26 Slowest speed '01' gives at arm's length a nice breeze, very silent.

[@williammiller7543]

I would think that adding a shroud around the intake side of the fan would make it more efficient. I'm not sure there is enough volume of wire in the fan protective cage to make much difference

[@randomtube8226]

Who came out on top? It's still hard to decide. Fan speed vs price 🤔

[@toadx123]

I'd be curious to see including the Vornado fans. On low they are really quiet but move a lot of air. On max they are like a jet taking off and sound like one too. haha.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

I don't have one

[@harlanbarnhart4656]

I'm on my second vorrnado, I destroyed the first one by knocking it over in the middle of the night attending to a small child. Todd is right, a little noisy at high settings but it also moves a lot of air and has settings very low and quiet. I'm not sure how it would fair in this test regimen as the design is for projecting a wide dispersed air stream to move the air in an entire room.

[@jameskirk3210]

Very efficient "temporary out of stock". Matthias best seller of the month !!!😎🖖👌👍

[@DavidLeeMenefee]

Which fan is the loudest and which fan is the quietist? Thanks

[@nathanlucas6465]

have you still got the 1hp leaf blower to add to the test results? :D

[@albertlagerman]

1Kg thrust?

[@Ravedave5]

Can you do performance per watt? I have a cabin that's all solar, I want to run a fan all the time. The dreo looks good but I need to know what the draw is like at lower levels.

[@ib9rt]

*Ravedave5* In the video at 7:26, the Dreo uses 3 watts at lowest speed, 28 watts at highest speed.

[@tristangates2797]

Great demonstration with the trash bag. I've sort of some to the same conclusions as you by anecdote. Back in my old shop we had a big barn fan and a large industrial stand fan. Even though the motor hp was about the same, the stand fan seemed to move a lot more air despite it's smaller blade size. It seemed to me then that the velocity of the air was as important as raw volume, and now I can see why. Those Dysons are just not a good deal unless you want a filter in that particular form-factor. I still use the cross flow fans where it fits in better, but the propeller style fans are what I go to now. There are even a few premium ones out there with nice high quality brush-less dc motors and extra-low speed settings.

[@insevanhouts]

Like another commenter said, thrust vs power usage would be super interesting!

[@marciusgoh3939]

is the weight of the fans accounted for in the measure of thrust? i imagine if it's heavy, it sort of reduces the measurement at the scale as there might be a change in height of the fan based on the rig you've set up.

[@cosmeticsandpurseswithevelyn]

I like the dreo but at $150 Ill pass it up already own Box fans & stand one. Beside my expensive saddle AC and regular one. Thanks fot the video! 👍

[@metalhead00xx]

You should do these same tests on the dual window fans (the kinds with two fans that can blow air in, out, or both). Be careful, because not every kind of "dual window fan" has that last setting. Some can only blow in or out.

[@DigitalArchmage]

Interesting thrust measuring device - I'm curious if there's any torque/moment concerns. basically wondering if a fan closer to the floor performs differently on your rig than a tall fan on a long leg stand would. (I assume the answer is it would be the same with or without the leg, but I'm not 100% sure).

[@MrGatlin98]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If you take it to the extremes and use a really tall fan (or a really flat fan) the thrust will vary because of where the force is coming from in relation to the pivot point.

[@wilbertbirdner1303]

I don't think there's another KZbinr with this many fans.

[@mr_q_02]

Would the mass of the fan affect the thrust measuring system? It seems like some of those fans are really small, so they might also have very low mass compared with the big fan. But on the other hand, they're mostly plastic, so it might be the case that the motor makes up so much of the mass that the size is nearly nothing in comparison.

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

see previous answers to this question

[@DaveDeathRay]

But which is the most efficient for power consumption compared to thrust it puts out?

[@williammiller7543]

How do you measure efficiency? CFM, dBA, wind velocity, Watts used per/?. I recently was looking for a leaf blower and they measure them in CFM and wind velocity. You are compressing the air with the fan blade and you are moving so many pounds air/minute using a measurable wattage? at a measurable dBA level.

[@luigiongaming3959]

I bought the dreo pilot max based on this video. My AC went out and I'm waiting on my uncle to be able to come out and fix it so I needed a fan thats able to keep my basement cool.

[@iancurrie8844]

Did you account for the mass of the fan when calculating thrust? That might explain why the smaller and lighter fans have more apparent thrust than the heavier ones.

[@Walid-qr5jf]

what about the fan size and weight besides the engine power, doesn't that effect the push back power

[@Walid-qr5jf]

there should be a test with a fan with and without weight attached to it, to see if the weight plays a role in the push back power

[@matthiasrandomstuff2221]

It doesn't play a role. I was measuring the difference in force with the fan on and off, and the fan didn't move between the two, so the weight of the fan plays no role.

[@Theonekhaled1]

Great endorsement. It really seems like the best product and I want one. Live in Sweden though and seems difficult to buy from here..

[@korganrivera4659]

Cycling the modes on the Dreo would be really useful for indoor plants. That's a nice feature.

[@undertyped1]

Due to the fact that fans send out more air when it's about half a meter from a window, if you attach one end of a cardboard box to the fan, and the other end to the window, and seal it up, the airflow in the room becomes kind of insane. Just make sure the fan is pointing outside.

[@sapelesteve]

After watching this video, I now know why I am a big fan of Matthias's YT channel! 😁😂🤣