Which is Best? Roast Color Examined

[@OQO00]

I can't wait to base all my opinions and preferences on this video. Thank you again Lance!

[@Exzeph]

😂

[@Valspartame_Maelstrom]

hahhh😅

[@crich695]

We’re now “experts”. It’s that simple

[@demmidemmi]

It's so good to see the coffee world "growing up" and trying to communicate more with objective metrics instead of going the wine route and trying to communicate almost entirely in objective terms. This makes the community so much more approachable and things get much easier to learn.

[@Fredddoh]

Amen

[@JoeySchaefer64]

Underrated comment!

[@LL-bl8hd]

Can you explain the difference between objective metrics and objective terms?

[@fazasuraj]

⁠​⁠@@LL-bl8hdmaybe what OP meant was subjective terms. but yeah totally agree!

[@davidtester863]

Love that you explore the far corners of this hobby without being stuffy about it 🤙

[@gunnar_langemark]

The 50 years old 'nordic' Java, which is from Denmark, reminds me of 40 years ago - in Copenhagen, when I first took an interest in coffee. At that time coffees labeled 'java' or 'mocca' would often be a lighter roast than other coffees. I don't think there was much systematic labeling (other than origin) and it was just a habit to roast a coffee from java in a lighter color. If memory serves me right. I had a french press, a moka-pot and a 'kolbe' (siphon vacuum system) in addition to filter coffee, back then. The lighter roasts were usually very good on the kolbe, which at the time could only be found in thrift stores.

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you for this comment! Very enlightening!

[@kaffeKenta]

I was under the impression that the stave church coffee was roasted in my hometown Bergen, Norway..

[@geraldg6463]

@@kaffeKenta I think you’re right - the label of the package is written in Norwegian 🇳🇴

[@gunnar_langemark]

@@kaffeKenta You may actually be right. I just read some text, and asumed. :)

[@gunnar_langemark]

@@kaffeKenta You're absolutely right.

[@WMDistraction]

I had a medium dark roast from Peru from a small chain a few weeks ago as an espresso and it was AMAZING. I had to go past my biases and just listen to the barista’s description of the flavor notes and processes, and the fact that those matched my preferences exactly was what made me take a chance on it. So glad I did.

[@costam5591]

I totally agree color testing is the most accurate way to be and stay consistent. The outside and inside Temperature of the roastery, level of humidity, how the beans react can vary and have a huge impact on your roast. As you mentioned you could be aiming for a certain development time or end temperature, but color is the only way to readjust your roasters setting. Always a pleasure to watch you. Keep up the amazing work

[@niccoloaurelius1587]

I like how Onyx describes roast levels by taste on their website (when you click around and find it...although they use Agtron to place it, too). To restate it in my own terms, in a more basic way, light roast is basically where origin etc is tasted but "roastiness" or bitterness is not. At medium roast, there is still origin, but the roasty flavors are definitely there as well. Dark would be where most origin flavors start to vanish, and where roastiness is predominant. Personally, I think describing roast levels by flavor like this is most helpful, especially for consumers who are just looking for what to expect.

[@brandyballoon]

This has been my experience so far when roasting coffee at home. I roast in an air fryer with a rotisserie basket. I keep the air temperature the same, and the roast time to achieve a certain colour depends on the quantity of beans in the drum. 100g takes about 11 minutes to reach the colour I like and 200g takes about 14 minutes. That's with a preheated oven (it's really a toaster oven, not a true air fryer). 200g without the preheat takes more than 20 minutes to reach the same colour. I ignore any cracking sounds and time the roast from when the beans go into the oven. I can't taste any difference between the same green beans roasted for different amounts of time as long as the end colour is the same. It'd be nteresting to see coffee experts do a blind taste test to see if they can really pick which one is which.

[@colin.galvin]

“Color was the biggest predictor of sensory variation” - this reminds me of food in general, but eggs/egg yolks specifically. It has been proven time and time again that people think darker yolks taste better but cannot tell a difference in blind taste tests (see J. Kenji Alt’s “The Food Lab” amongst many others). In general, we think we have much more conscious control (some might say “free will”) of what we think and how it affects our perceptions of everything in life than we actually do. Very cool, thank you for your videos!

[@cheekster777]

A great topic for discussion, Lance. Thank you Buddy. 🙏🏻

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you, friend! glad you enjoyed!

[@cheekster777]

@@LanceHedrick 🤩

[@matijamandic8774]

Great video - the current nomenclature around roast levels is vague and unhelpful for hobbyists. I’m happy with terms like “light” as long as there’s a standard behind it (e.g. your 100-120). Roaster A’s “light’ should roughly correspond to Roaster B’s “light”. And if it doesn’t - that’s a problem and should be addressed.

[@stevokuhn9153]

Loved the video. Thank you for shedding light on this topic. As a non-roaster, but a trainer, it has been very helpful to be able to use analytical data in conjunction with sensory data to be more consistent. I would definitely recommend getting hold of some form of colour / agtron meter for any size roastery.

[@DH-bf9xb]

It would be interesting to see the correlation between colour and tasting notes. Are darker roasts ever labelled "fruity". Are lighter roasts ever labelled "chocolatey". Or are we using those words as an easier but less accurate stand in for colour numbers.

[@erikkitvisets213]

It probably depends more on variety and origin. Usually colombian coffees are more chocolatey and African are more stone fruit/red berries. I have had Ethiopian and kenyan coffees that are medium roasted and I find them more chocolatey/nutty and the fruitiness is hiding. Also, super processed coffees can be very fruity (many famous producers in Colombia, often Huila region). I have had Los Pirineos from Tim Wendelboe "which is nordic light" and it tasted like hazelnut chocolate as I remeber it. Depends more on the green beans so it is a difficult question. But basically different roasting style is going to give different tasting notes.

[@celticdr]

Darker roasts often take on more flavour from the Maillard reaction, which is the roasting itself, as the bean gets darker you are more naturally going to taste chocolate, nutty, smoky flavours. The "fruity" flavours tend to derive more from the way the green coffee was processed, so whilst it is rare to find lighter roasts that are "chocolatey" (due to the Maillard reaction having less effect) I have had a dark roasted Ethiopian Sidmo CM coffee that gave off a really strong, sweet blueberry profile. It was one of those coffees I remember well because it appeared so dark yet the flavour was so fruity. So yes it is possible.

[@JulianAndresKlode]

To some extend, to take some examples from coffeecircle, one of the hghest rated roasters in Germany: Espresso Solona is on their light range, taste notes: Fruity | Papaya, Dark Chocolate Feliciano Castillo Coffee & Espresso is bordering light, taste notes: Velvety | Dark Chocolate, Pecan Nut Cerrado Omniroast is bordering their dark range, Velvety | Hazelnut, Sweet Fruits Nothing actually in their dark category though that's fruity.

[@Akdale777]

Appreciate the topic. As a home roaster, i can say roasting is another rabbit hole when it comes to gear and method.

[@slimshadythe111]

It's a real pain.

[@kamaalalawi5793]

Yeah man finally Lance talking lil bit about roasting

[@brandyballoon]

I've just got into home roasting and I've already come to the conclusion that all the faff about roast profiles is overrated. The final colour, regardless of how it got there, seems to be the main indicator of what it's going to taste like.

[@NA26626]

Great video! I really hope this is the beginning of you diving down the roasting rabbit hole!

[@davidlyons6235]

This was a great video. Very natural and professional. Good job Lance.

[@kamaalalawi5793]

Hey Lance finally u talk a little bit about roasting. U said the middle part/phase I think u mean mailard ,first crack development time & drop temperature. I’m a home roaster I understand these terms but I don’t think people who don’t home roast would begin to comprehend those terms. Maybe do a video on basic coffee roasting. I’m surprised that u have knowledge on this. 😄👍Maybe do a fundamental coffee roasting video man. I have wonder will that ever happen. But today I say a pretty sneaky preview of it .

[@tcl7563]

I love how nerdy this is. Definitely a deep dive! ❤

[@pdxrunner]

Yea, up early in Portland Oregon

[@LanceHedrick]

good morning!

[@DJProPlusMax]

I enjoyed this video and agree to many of the things you said! I can confirm that decaf's look quite dark even though I would say they taste light - and my limit is light roast with the wheat grass in the aftertaste, it seems like an oversight on the QC - but I shouldn't be suprised since that coffee (Washed Yirgacheffe Ethiopia) was roasted by Nord(ic)beans...

[@BorrowedKnowledge]

I really liked this video! Morten was a teacher of mine at university. Very knowledgeable and taught me a lot about coffee. Oh, and actually Davide is a professor at my current department, at another university.

[@kamaalalawi5793]

I do follow Morten on utube …. His research is pretty relevant & Rob Hoos does collaborate with him as they both are working with Loring the roaster company on training & experimentation on the coffee roaster .

[@oborotenn]

A great video and a great idea for the industry and ,especially, a blessing for the consumers!

[@PhillipLangenkamp]

Absolutely love this! I think color is an issue that is long overdue for more conversation and better standards/measurements. I'm all here for this and would happily pay a little extra for my coffee if it meant getting better info on it with it! 😁

[@dclmx]

Great vid. 🎉🎉 love the neediness which helps to enlightened us.

[@Marc42]

Proper scales are indeed overdue, thank you for promoting that!

[@tvk270]

just drank some light roast after drinking dark/medium roast for a while. I think I prefer light/medium, but dark has a certain robustness that I appreciate. I've learned that I have to brew each much differently to get the same enjoyment out of them though

[@louisburley1597]

This was a damn good video. More like these please! I’d come back for more on these topics

[@durand101]

Thanks for kicking this off. For some reason, UK speciality roasters seem to roast to medium but advertise as light roast. It drives me nuts because it is so far apart from what nordic roasters or even some of the roasters on the continent do. It's not that the roasts are bad but it's just frustrating to not be able to find the taste profiles you can get so easily in other countries. I'd love to see some detailed data on this so let's hope your spreadsheet kicks roasters into gear! 🎉

[@Longtimerolling]

Thanks for the little taster on coffee bean color.. It feels like you had a lot more to say.

[@SeeTheCoffee]

Thank you Lance, i was talking with friends to get one here in Mexico to know that aspect of the color🙏 I hope to see another video where you can talk about other studies from CoffeeMind

[@Ltab249]

I greatly enjoyed this video Lance, thanks for all your hard work :D

[@hesamsadeghian9396]

More info to consumers might just help them understand their preferences better. Thanks Lance! Looking forward to reading the data!!

[@VBDrew]

Yes! This NEEDS to be the standard! Morten Munchow has so much good info on this!

[@Akck67]

This is super cool Lance! The google sheet is extremely interesting, I would love if it could be filled out with way more coffees.

[@BuyTheDrip.Coffee]

Loved this Lance! We added the video into our newsletter this week. 🥰

[@kenpendergrass6400]

I enjoyed this video. Also I want to comment on your recent video where you explained you were not trying to get people to buy shakers. Yesterday was grinding with my hand grinder. I had the idea why not just shake the grinds in the grinder. It works. Looks the same as your grind out of the shaker. Tastes like one of my best pulls, Flair Pro II. I will have to try Nordic roast.

[@bvtc1777]

This is great! The roaster’s in my city (Edmonton, Canada) tend to roast on the light/medium-medium. I only know this anecdotally after trying some beans from roasters in the US and other parts of Canada that I KNOW tend to roast light or even border on Nordic. I originally thought some of those roasters in other cities just sourced better beans or maybe their roasting technique was better. It took me a while to notice that I actually just like most coffees roasted to a lighter degree than what’s mostly available near me. Agtron readings would be stellar as an industry standard 👌 just 1 more piece of info to help make decisions.

[@epic27]

As a home roaster, I see the use of measuring the color of each batch is beneficial; almost essential in logging. I've eyed the DiFluid Omni for a while now. It's still a hard buy for me now.

[@erikkitvisets213]

I think it's more about consistency. For most businesses you maybe want to stay in between a specific number that fit that green bean so your costumers are happy. But, as a home roaster I would more rely on taste. Taste is number one then colour.

[@hankua]

I recently picked up a RoastSee C1, so far so good; it’s more affordable for sure.

[@kitcraft9516]

I wish everyone listed Agtron. With specialty coffee I find those that I keep coming back to are in the 52-55 range. And in a SO Colombian where applicable. I found some small batch stuff that had no Agtron listing but visually it was darker than Eclispe but way lighter than any commodity coffee. If I had to wager a guess it would be in that 48-50 range. No roastiness, as an espresso, but a strong taste of toasted nuts and apple like acidity. It tasted nostalgic, like coffee of my past, yet elevated. That is not to say that I will only drink darker coffee. I like a lot of Ethiopian coffees as a Lungo and they are normally Agtron 70s (at least the onese I buy). That is kind of like trading a Stout for a Sour and is refreshing now and again. Lance, we need something like Eclipse Midnight Colombian edition, hint, hint. As always, thank you for the detailed video.

[@celticdr]

Hell yeah I enjoyed it - slightly biased as a coffee roaster though! Light roasted coffee is overrated, dark roasted (specialty) coffee is underrated - I roast coffee and find a medium (omni-roast which works with filter or espresso) is the best of both worlds, ergo better to my personal preference. I have been experimenting lately with interesting funky processed coffees (Colombia Tabi thermal shock extended fermentation yellow honey) with a super light roast (around 12-13% weight loss) however I'm finding that the acidity and grassy character masks the terroir of the coffee itself and the ideal is still around that omni-roast. Yes I want to get a DiFluid Omni - I've got their refractometer and it's a great piece of kit. DiFluid have a great future ahead with their style of bringing pro gear to the masses, they're a bit like the Apple of coffee gear. Great video Lance, I'm keen to check out your spreadsheet, I have spreadsheets for everything I do in relation to my roasting as I want to launch it one day (when I can afford to quit the day job and go full pro).

[@BrianLassek]

Looking forward to adding info to intuition since I look at color but have a lot to learn.

[@AjayKumar-jz1ip]

Informative, Interesting & upskilling video. Thank you. Ajay Kumar from India

[@d-godfather]

Depends on the beans, but personally prefer medium roast for espresso and light roast for filtered coffee. Dark roast is something I enjoyed years ago, but not anymore 😂😅

[@chris_huelsemeyer]

Home roasting myself, reading the color and fully agree with what you say. While it is a quality measure as to whether the batch is within the correct range, it also tells me personally whether I will like this or whether I should change the end drop temperature/time

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

I roast too. I'll measure moisture loss to use as another tool for my roast level.

[@chris_huelsemeyer]

@@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat I measure weight loss (don’t have a moisture meter), but I find color to be way more telling and precise. Most of my coffees have the same weight loss, but can vary +/-10 on a color scale correlating to taste changes

[@cullenherrera3976]

I found that Kenyan from Sey yesterday and am so excited to try it!!

[@mdfrick]

Thank you for this!

[@Adios8686]

I drink dark roasted, south italian coffee for espresso. I dont like (lots of) acidity in espresso. V60 is the complete opposite... I prefer very light, nordic style roasted beans for it.

[@pdxrunner]

Very Surprised on the High numbers for September Coffee. I've been a subscriber since inception. I love his curated roasts. I thought I was a medium roast person. For pour over I'm there, but epresso Ive been loving Pak's Newbery Merlaeku Family which read as Full City on the Sweet Maries chart.

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

Starbucks' "blonde roast" is a dark roast. Anything darker is just charcoal pellets. I used to think it was just because people who like Starbucks all have the same kind of mental quirk that makes them like burnt coffee with faecal scent notes, but I've since realised that they do that so it produces more crema. It stemmed from weighting crema and consistency (as in, every shot being the same) above everything else. Turning the coffee into slightly caffeinated charcoal also packs it with loads of carbonation which produces insane crema, making it "better" according to entry-level barista wisdom.

[@youtubeprofile7]

yeah they’re the one with a mental quirk

[@chrisrichardson8411]

i have enjoyed your videos in the past but, usually feel they are either too campy or too pandery to vagueness, as an engineer this kind of quantification and analysis is everything I want...keep it up!!

[@andrewbourn1513]

The beautiful nerd strikes again! This topic is something I'd never considered. Thanks for the education!

[@0whitestone]

This was a really interesting video! I wish you had given us some numbers from Onyx. I find that I consistently really enjoy the "modern" roast profile of Onyx coffees, it's my go-to because I know it will probably be a banger. I usually try 2 or 3 bags from a new roaster, and then order a few bags from Onyx to have on hand so I always have something good to drink in case my new roaster gamble didn't pay off.

[@LanceHedrick]

Check the data

[@0whitestone]

@@LanceHedrick Oh snap! Thank you :) I forgot about that. Do you think the US roasts are the same or similar to the EU ones? If so, I'm surprised at how light I like my coffee, I knew I didn't like mediums as much, but those are in the "ultra light" range.

[@Skier_202]

I traveled to Seattle and around the Cascades this year and I found that the local roasters' definition of light roast is way darker than on the east coast US. Good but still much darker than I was expecting.

[@ph1ber]

Great video Lance! I know you said this video is not an Omni review, but still, it doesn't seem like a product that is sensible to get as just a consumer, in my opinion. More something for roasters, like you mentioned in the video. Would you agree? I feel like the use case of "analyze roast colors of coffees you bought to see what you like the most" is quite limited considering the price, especially because you still need to buy the coffees first anyways.

[@Nondescripthumanoid]

I may have to spring for this. I already have a Link sample roaster I use for my own consumption. It’s probably the best coffee gear purchase I’ve ever made. I know it is optimized for lighter roasts since the champion roaster works on all the algo stuff that makes it tick. But it would be interesting to know exactly how different certain roasts are. And what do the ones I enjoy the most have in common. Other than being on a lighter end of things. Also I just realized I haven’t had anybody else’s coffee in a good while now. 😂. Damn. I gotta do some comparisons.

[@christopherf1217]

Love this!

[@richardmartin1551]

Tried them all when brewing at home but something always drags me back to dark roast. I love it. Especially since I found a real nice one which has become my regular batch. It’s called “the italian job”.

[@BBuchanan3]

Confusing. But I learned something. Absolutely agree that current nomenclature is near useless. Unless you stick with one roaster.

[@larryduran1047]

While there is no question that color meters are very important for in-house quality control, there can be significant variability between color meters of different brands in terms of color readings of the same coffee. We have seen up to a ten point color difference in readings of the same coffee with multiple roast color meters of the same make and model. Some of this variance is no doubt due to inconsistent sample preparation especially with ground coffee, which is more fickle. Given your access to roasters with color meters, it would be an interesting follow up to this video to show the same coffee being tested on various color meters.

[@LanceHedrick]

That is why I said very intentionally this exact point and discussed how results should be taken relatively and it is incredibly important to always use same equipment. Oh, and calibrate always.

[@Lalala-t9f]

I need solid "all in"-coffee beans: which ones can you recommend for espresso drinks and for filter coffee?

[@warba98]

Would have been interesting to hear more about the filter/omni/espresso roast profiles that specialty coffee roasters tend to use. Maybe in a future video?

[@devlin2427]

I remember being laughed out a local forum when I brought the discussion about color and a way to quantify roast level, some 5 years ago. In reality, the majority of small local roasters sit in their own "omniroast bubble" and treat any question about roast level like some sort of secret sauce recipe that's locked under key. Unfortunately, in most cases, ignorance is bliss on both sides, i.e. roaster and buyer.

[@CoffeeAndSmoke23]

I've really been liking my light 48hr anaerobic gamatui natural..Its so out of the ordinary and gives a really fermented aroma in a good way..I like coffees that are as weird as you can get

[@Mandragara]

I can't wait for this DMT entity to data download coffee knowledge into my brain

[@thomascee]

Wow... Side comment, you said 70 or 80 coffees you have in the studio? How do you drink them all while fresh?????? Fantastic video as always.

[@pang157]

Waiting for a new upload I was getting a little scared however you definitely delivered sir. All I got to say is will we be getting an unfiltered q/a again please.

[@R3DPR]

In general prefer medium or full city / city+ not too dark to lose fruity etc notes but dark enough to have some body and flavours that come with darker roast. I roast for my own use and right now am thinking to keep it simple and learn to trust my senses for roasting, doing profiling and following charts helps to keep it consistent but I think I won´t need it for my own consumption, it could also have opposite effect when shit gets too technical and I forget to simply enjoy my cup of coffee.

[@GeelongVic7140]

Lance, This video first gave me a deep, wide smile, then the smile graduated into almost continual laughter, I couldn't stop laughing for quite a while.....thanks. The pursuit of ever light roasts to enjoy and enhance the fruity characteristics of coffee beans ultimately led me to a taste epiphany.....the ultimate fruity taste experience, for me at least, comes not from a light roast coffee or a light roast espresso, but with the exquisite fruity tastes of delightful Raw Puerh or Gushu Sheng Pueri teas, amongst others. So yes, medium to dark coloured roasted coffee beans are my favorites for coffee beverages especially in the morning, but teas have now become my go-to for fruity flavors in place of the so desired fruity flavors in coffees sought within the apparent never ending chase for ever more fruity flavors in coffee based beverages. Thanks for a delightful video, and thanks for my deep, prolonged daily laugh. I absolutely enjoy your sense of humour. Oh, BTW, to lessen the ecologic impacts of coffee demands on the world, could you consider teaching us techniques to optimize 7gm single dose espresso brewing...just a simple request, something for you to consider, please?

[@JulianAndresKlode]

I think to make it a useful reference metric for roasters, you need a machine that grinds and measures given the dependency on grind size, otherwise you may get too much variance from roasters in the values they report. (also probably it needs to be one single machine, or a calibration standard or whatnot)

[@robertebob]

i'm glad i can control my own blended color by roasting at home. it's limitless.

[@nathanprocaccini1691]

Great video!

[@REMY.C.]

All coffee roasters should have a standardized "Pantone" for coffee with a scale so we all have a good idea. Coffeetone™.

[@Frostbiker]

I was thinking exactly the same. A simple printed color scale would cost pennies and would give amateurs a lot of bang for their buck.

[@REMY.C.]

@@Frostbiker exactly, but it needs to be "scientifically" approved to bring a tangible and repeatable experience. For example 5 to 7 colors like those pH bands, those colors have to be agreed upon by roasters because there's a real change between a color and it's neighbors.

[@CoffeeMindAcademy]

Was just looking at the dataset in the spreadsheet and for me this is what I make of the data: Summary Statistics for the "Ground" Values: Roasters with the Lowest Ground Values: Nescafe: 73.9 Sical: 86.8 Manhattan: 94.0 Roasters with the Highest Ground Values: Picky Chemist: 140.8 Back to Black: 139.8 Picky Chemist: 137.5 Average, Minimum, and Maximum Ground Values by Roast Level: Omni: Average: 118.91 Min: 94.6 Max: 139.8 Filter: Average: 123.87 Min: 109.6 Max: 140.8 Espresso: Average: 108.73 Min: 103.2 Max: 113.5 Data set size: 61 data points Mean: 118.38 Standard Deviation: 12.74 Minimum (Min): 73.9 25th Percentile (25%): 111.2 Median (50%): 119.7 75th Percentile (75%): 126.1 Maximum (Max): 140.8

[@endoalley680]

Dry end is an important benchmark. Then first crack. Then development/ drop.

[@feilik]

I would love it if coffee packaging listed objective roast colour. As someone who has drank mostly light to medium for over a decade, I now really enjoy darker roasts and avoid superlight ones. But also previously it would have helped when I avoided the dark side.

[@mikehawk1780]

Hi Lance, have you ever come across a lever machine from Kees van der Westen? Seems like they are building some very interesting machines, I’d be very interested to see you review one of those!

[@slimshadythe111]

Always found it wild how there's no metric for how light or dark the roast is.

[@Theissanity]

How about density? Is that a good relative measurement and how does it compare to color? Would love to see a video on that. 😊

[@markwolfson2023]

Thanks!

[@markwolfson2023]

Lance, what about the relationship between altitude of the beans and roast level? I am confused, as some roasters take beans grown at about 2000M and roast them 'medium'? I previously learned that high altitude beans are roasted light, with at least 1:3 ratios. So suppose I have portion of beans at home. What ratio do I follow with this combination?

[@madsgrand]

It would be such a great help if we could get a somewhat standardized labeling of the roast level / color. Too many times I hve bought stuff that is darker than my preference and Im using the whole bag to try to dial it in to something I enjoy

[@Thatgoonjesse]

What are your thoughts on bean density? It’s pretty easy to measure at home and seems like it correlates to roast level

[@bmyvettjr]

thank you for the data

[@AKenneth224]

Is it possible for you to make a pour over guide with a regular kettle?

[@lyleallan5124]

I was introduced to cupping at a roaster in Panama last January. At this session, a large circular 'flavor' chart was shown with light, flowery at 1 o'clock; dark, smokey at 6 o'clock on the wheel. I asked about espresso for a light coffee we were tasting and it was claimed that the espresso process moves all the flavors of a coffee counter clockwise on the wheel, hence a lighter roast will have tendency to move into the sour zone (11 or 12 o'clock on the wheel). "So yes, you can use a light roast for espresso, but there is very little room for error" was the comment made. Lance, does this make sense? thanks....

[@fastcoffee9878]

The shirt! 🤎

[@hankua]

I’m confused about what scale is being used? I’ve got a RoastSee C1 and a Tonino. RoastSee has Agtron and SCA options, however there are two Agtron scales; Gourmet and Professional. RoastSee does not specify which one it‘s using. As far as I can see there is no standard color scale or grind size other than the older SCA metric.

[@parasbhargava6047]

my sister in law brpught me yemen coffee it was almost green would that be 160? also why not map to the agtron scale, tgis scale seems to.shift agtron higher.

[@darylfortney8081]

Wonder why measuring roast color is so expensive since products to accurately measure and calibrate monitor color has been around forever at the sub $100 price point. Would be nice to see lots more commodity options in this space. Maybe we will soon.

[@pdxrunner]

I use Sweet Marie's roast color guide

[@davidlyons6235]

Oh that's weird. I've been thinking about asking you about this. It seems like everyone who makes delicious coffee use light roast.

[@robwhitmore3040]

In my experience, (and while it may be over 100 different roasts, I know it's still less than 0.1% of the options available), coffees all have different tastes and flavours from the moment they're picked. These can be changed, reduced, enhanced, ruined, etc between the day they're picked and the day they're roasted, but they're all different. But it seems like wherever they fall on the flavour spectrum, the longer they're roasted, the more they all converge toward that "Dark Chocolate, Caramel and Hazelnut" tasting profile. Which is fine if you like that. Any most people do. It's a people pleaser and that's why big chains use it. But, to me, it's boring. And I'd struggle to pick the difference in the dark roast sold at my favourite roaster for $60/kg and the dark roast sold at Aldi for $18/kg. I buy a new lighter roast because I know it's likely to be a different experience. I might hate it. I might love it. But it's far less likely to be boring.

[@CannedLaughter00]

I remember talking to some roasters about Agtron readings. They all admitid using it but that they would never share this info with the customers. So you tell them Lance 😂

[@pimacanyon6208]

nerds! we are & love it

[@kanyestatton]

The problem is the device matters greatly to that number, a Lightells ground 100 is a lot different to a DiFluid 100. Not to mention preparation of sample, time after roasting etc

[@heresey]

Standardized anything on bags would be nice. I'm just thankful when I get an actual roasted on datem 😛

[@selimbolek9026]

Could you please do an experimental research video on cold drip ??😊😊

[@jamesward479]

Lance, I’d be curious how accurate bean weight loss is actually correlated color and roast degree. If it’s really close, this would eliminate home roasters from having to buy an expensive colormeter.

[@LanceHedrick]

It's 100% depends on the roaster machine and approach and bean.

[@jamesward479]

That’s interesting! I know Hoos and sweet Maria’s seem to think there is strong correlation between color/roast degree, and weight loss but I’ve never seen an experiment showing its validity. I could see the bean to bean variability especially with different processes but I’m curious how roaster to roaster comes in if you had for example: a 14% loss on the same bean on say a bullet vs a Dietrich? You think the color would be significantly different at the same weight loss on the same bean? I’m genuinely curious.

[@thomtithomtithom]

Partric rolf from april talked about roast color as a form of quality controll. His conclusion was that aging the beans effects the color greatly. 10 days past roast or 50 days past roast is immense. (Supposedly) So if there are roaster who want to use this tool think about the days after roast in which you measure. This variable has not been taken into account in this video

[@danymeeuwissen5973]

Roast color can be interesting for a roaster to do quality control or develop profiles. Sharing a number with customers that will vary greatly depending on how fine you grind and which measurement tool you use? Not really useful (we're having a discussion on this in a roaster chat as we speak). Weight loss and density might be more universal and easier to implement, with less reliance on measurement tools that aren't calibrated between different brands or machines. I'm not sure if I agree with Morten that 80% of flavor is in the roast color. A Kenya will taste like a Kenya, even if it's 10 points lighter or darker then whatever number is 'best'. I'd say one of the best ways to discover new roasters is to visit a cafe with multiple guest roasters and try a couple, maybe take a bag home. Water chemistry might also have a bigger effect on flavor perception than obsessing over a preferred agtron number.🤷🏻‍♂️