Which is Better, a $7K Klon or a $30 Clone?

[@bymbie]

You folks need to set-up a live voting system, so you can survey the full audience. Would be fun to see the distribution of listener guesses.

[@hisham_hm]

KZbin supports polls in the live chat

[@stevenlewis4376]

My guess is it would be 50/50.

[@cartoonvillains7080]

Y E S

[@bymbie]

@@stevenlewis4376 Very likely. Haha. I was 1 for 3.

[@cyanidejunkie]

As Hisham stated, adding a poll the live stream is easy to do.

[@stephc4427]

Exactly, a circuit is a circuit! Well said. Electronics are governed by the component values and the layout. The magic is entirely within our heads. Kudos to the crew at JHS for having the courage to make it real!

[@wesleyzimmerman94]

And the little variance in values that we just can't remove will make two pedals set the exact same way sound slightly different, whether you can hear it or not

[@Jesse615]

Totally agree. It seems to me that "more expensive" will mean "better quality/sound" up to a point, but then the law of diminishing returns takes over. $7,0000.00 for an overdrive pedal is a prime example.

[@justaskin8523]

@@Jesse615 $7,000 dollars is foolish. $70,000 is an even better sales opportunity!

[@Djimbe]

@@wesleyzimmerman94 that variance can go for different units from the same production run!

[@WmLJohnson]

I think theres a King Midas moment that keeping going on and on for the Klon. I dumped mine long ago sadly. I say that only because I’d sell in a second now for more. I still use a clone and I have several. I do love the pedal. Im the guy who has used a tube screamer since 1983. Ive prolly had 50 TS pedals. Love them both as boosts.

[@grandudetonesnob7107]

The most surprising thing I've learned from this is that handling pedals while wearing white gloves imparts a more refined tone to all the pedals involved.

[@escalator9734]

@Robert Cooper not that far off of gibson's "toan iz in the finish"

[@eastbaystreet1242]

Silly people, tone is in the pedal board material: the part of the pedal board to which the pedals are mounted. Don't even get me started on the huge impact on tone caused by velcro mounting the pedals vs. zip tie/hard fasteners.

[@grandudetonesnob7107]

@@eastbaystreet1242 Not to mention how the pedal casing and the finish affect the tone. The pot metal and powder coating they use don't allow the pedal to breathe as well as sitka spruce and nitrocellulose lacquer.

[@tomcoryell]

@@grandudetonesnob7107 A properly relic’d pedal ALWAYS sounds better.

[@alanknuss1241]

@@tomcoryell everyone knows relics are fake, I don’t understand why anyone would want one, they must be idiots etc, etc, etc 😂

[@arborealityForest]

I really hope this show continues. I just saved so much money.

[@Kcapgar]

Those klons definitely sounded the same.

[@ekklesiast]

I thought B (the original) sounded better, "juicer" before the reveal, but I can't say the difference worth $7k. Also 1 minute is not enough.

[@1thess523]

And you didn't even have to go with Geico 😂😂😂. I got my Mosky Silver Horse for $19 👍

[@1thess523]

​@@KcapgarI was totally surprised myself, I have the Mosky and it sounds really nice through my JCM 900

[@y-u-aargh]

​@@ekklesiastwow thanks for the spoiler

[@sillyskeleton]

Man, it's like buying a watch. You could spend thousands if you want to, but at the end of the day something for a fraction of the price can still tell you the right time.

[@MetaMicroLabs]

I'd like to see a secret "PLACEBO" example with two of the same pedals going head-to-head to explore that kind of bias.

[@sobrevida157]

Agree. I think of that in every A/B testing. Do an A/A testing. Or just pretend to switch it. When we are so focused on looking for differences, we can see them so clearly. We find evidence of whatever we're looking for.

[@AsherRapp]

Gonna be hard to drop 14k on 2 klons

[@mrnelsonius5631]

There’s a lot of blind A/B tests that show up in Gearspace forums about plugins, and I’ve noticed that the most ardent arguers of “this one sounds better than the other” suddenly go quiet and leave the thread when the blind tests show up. Refuse to participate. Cuz….. confirmation bias is a helluva drug

[@RByrne]

@@AsherRapp thats not how it works.

[@Lantertronics]

@@AsherRapp Actually, Josh Scott would be a good person to do this, as he probably has the biggest collection of actual original Klons in the world.

[@travismegale6796]

I guessed A on the Klon but knew I was wrong the second I saw how much more gently Josh removed the patch cords from the B pedal. 😂

[@andyrharris]

I thought the same. I don't know what did it for you, but to me A seemed to have more dynamic range. When he was strumming quite hard, they sounded the same to me.

[@DMSProduktions]

AND also how FAR he moved his hands to TURN the knobs! THAT was a DEAD give away!

[@josephbeamon8132]

100% me as well

[@justaskin8523]

Stop listening with your eyes, people! lol!

[@Espresso101]

Amazing attention to detail. Great job.

[@tajobi9984]

having 2 clones and one original would lower the chance of a lucky random guess, and it would be cool if the third pedal was something like a digital multi stomp!

[@evanharnett]

I would say have 2 of the same brand and the original just to make it interesting.

[@bobbyjarvisjr9818]

+1

[@jarrodcross1482]

Yeah A/B blind testing is one thing ... but even then a 50/50 shot ... particularly when your not really matching unity or levels so a crap shoot at best ... funny how the cheep n cheerful wins almost every time! ... aka do a shootout of say 7 RATs or 12 big muffs ... there's no chance anyone could tell the difference especially when it's in chain of pedals, in isolation I suspect they will be slightly different, and potentially identifiable... just pointless which is what I love about JHS, the demystifying of circuits! :D I'm so getting a 39$ Klone! :D

[@tds2117]

@@jarrodcross1482 why would anyone do a shootout of the same pedal, let alone a dozen of them? Unless you’re saying with a Muff vs Rat, which would be silly because they’re very different circuits. Not to mention one is a fuzz, while the other is distortion.

[@jarrodcross1482]

@@tds2117 I think you answered your own question, either do or don't ... while the variations of say a RAT or a big muff are well documented plus having production runs over decades with revisions n component substitutions, while they are basically voiced to create the same effect at the output jack ... a bit like how most old boss CE2s sound subtley different, the real question is let's say, is a 500+ vintage unit better or worse than a current production model let alone a cheep 30-40$ clone ... While it's just a circuit, take the klon for example ... with some now hitting 10,000$s plus how many were hand made by Bill, that introduces so many variances surely, if he was hand building all those?

[@marianokun]

This channel showed me everything I know about pedals and to not be ashamed of the cheap ones as long as I like the sound

[@NORMIES_GET_OUT]

My main concern when buying pedals is build quality. I have a couple of the Amazon basics pedals (Compressor and an ABY switch) and they've held up really well. Definitely better than some of my more expensive pedals. *Ahem* I'm looking at you TC Electronics... 😠

[@HotDominicanDad]

@@NORMIES_GET_OUT what brands have held up well?

[@sundownsupper7409]

@@NORMIES_GET_OUT tc electronics = behringer = no

[@brianrollins7275]

Keeley, JHS, Boss and MXR have been the best for me as far as build quality and longevity.

[@1thess523]

​@@NORMIES_GET_OUTmy son had a Walrus Audio Voyager and had to replace the stomp button because it gave out, we were able to do it ourselves but it's an expensive pedal.

[@kostas8018]

The initial popularity and success of the Klon was due to the innovations in how the circuit was designed. Since the circuit does not involve any super rare or expensive components, cheap copies can be made and faithful reproductions will sound as good as the original (or at least to the point that human ear cannot detect any difference). The inflated price of the Klon is only due to the fact that it has become a collector's item, and it has become a collector's item because there are relatively few units, not because the original units sound better.

[@TheDubdubwubwub]

What do you think is the best clone of Klon?

[@drippinglass]

There’s 8,000 of them out there. Usually more than 20 on Reverb and eBay at any given time. Guitar players are dumb.

[@buckdown2464]

The Wampler Tumnus (the little one) is probably the best, and the Warm Audio is probably the most authentic

[@shaft9000]

i haven't heard anything come closer than the KTR, i like the ryra a lot and the centura can sound even creamier than a Klon. Sold my Tumnus as the transient was icepick-ish, inducing the most rapid ear-fatigue of any other boost pedal since my keeley time machine. Kind of wish I'd kept the Archer but only a little, as my DIY silver pony 2 does the job (and more) just fine.

[@BrantleyAllen]

Tell that to the people that spent too much money on a pedal "just because."

[@particlesandpixels]

"Getting stringed" was very 90s Nickelodeon, that was fun. Great series I look forward to more!

[@ruvchbrevth]

Line 6 stuff vs actual pedals would be an awesome comparison! ☺️

[@mrnelsonius5631]

I preferred the sound of the cheaper Klon, straight up, and I do music and production professionally 😂. Maybe there’s no accounting for taste but I’m absolutely certain that $6,950 can be better spent just about every way imaginable.

[@ObsidianLife]

A whole lot of people listen with their eyes…

[@Threemicsrecords]

Musicians' hearing is supposedly so good.

[@jclark1693]

I feel like I preferred the authentic Klon, but honestly…not by much and I imagine any difference could be dialed out with actually seeing the knobs and getting what you want. If I had to absolutely pick which one sounded better? B. But honestly I wouldn’t even consider wanting the original, the knock-off is so close I wouldn’t think twice about buying it. I’m honestly considering buying one right now because it’s so good and I would never justify the money to buy an original.

[@shaft9000]

They both sounded mediocre, because he was just choking out some chords and not playing any music. It's a useless comparison.

[@SidneyTurnerOfficial]

@@shaft9000 Fanboy?

[@Clambelly]

Josh and Crew this is the best guitar pedal review ever in the history of KZbin. Proves what I have been saying for years -- a pedal sounds only as good as it looks !

[@AB-lx8cf]

The klon much harder with very little output difference but tone was pretty spot on. Had 3 klons back in 2003. Sold them for $350/$400 back then. Thinking I made it out good. Damn I hate myself.

[@AlexOtter]

Would love to see "analog vs digital" in this type of show format for effects like modulation and delay. Even digital overdrive/distortion/fuzz like the Ultrawave against analog equivalents.

[@MarcelandrieW]

Would be nice to see some cheap "Amp In A Box" vs actual Amp comparisons. Tape Delays and Fuzzes would be nice too.

[@SteveOuimette]

This is the best show on KZbin, hands-down. Hilarious to hear the comparisons and the difference in cost, especially the Klon. High five!

[@bigfootNPC]

The Rat clone sounded so much better than the real thing. Original Rat seemed thin and sharp

[@heinzchristianoetken4336]

Absolutely, and I thought I was insane I did prefer the original Klon though…

[@kingocowata]

You’re crazy 😂

[@TheMuffinMan01]

was it not just way quieter??

[@clintbustwood4800]

@@TheMuffinMan01yeah I think that was more what people are hearing. A ton of vintage pedals just have weaker output signals than modern stuff. They need to set the levels accordingly before they start in the future

[@shaft9000]

2 rather significant things here: - equal-loudness contours / Fletcher-Munson bias due to unequal volume - B doesn't sound even 50% like a Rat, and is much closer to a mid-period Big Muff. So it plainly fails by a mile as a clone, but if you prefer it to the old specimen then that's great. Happy accidents and serendipity make for half of the innovation and joy in the world,. anyways :)

[@walterpruitt6589]

I absolutely love this and the JHS show. It’s great wholesome and informative guitar pedal videos. This was great to watch after a long stressful day of work. Cheers!

[@WarrenPostma]

I want to hear an episode where you compare the actual pedal to a variety of modelled sounds, such as Helix, or even some software plugins. For example, Helix Native’s chorus sounds or the Digitech RP360 chorus sounds, versus the actual pedals they are modelled after.

[@jimpottssoundandvision]

This is a ton of fun! Keep going with this idea. The Klons were indistinguishable.

[@jasonmick1587]

I’m going out on a limb here this was my favorite most fun JHS video I’ve viewed yet!!! Loved it you’ll have to do another one!

[@jamiehunt8811]

The more you know, the more you suffer 🤣🤣🤣

[@_left_eye]

Cool, funny and informative as always! I’d never thought a Klon had reached 7k. But at the moment I’m so happy for the eventual owners who ve just realised they can get a better sounding pedal for 29.99 bucks

[@bradleyard4195]

I have the Mosky. Can confirm it's a damn good pedal.

[@coolcatfxadoptionagency11]

If you decide to do amps it'd be neat to see a real full stack vs. a fully digital setup. I'd definitely like to see some analog vs. digital stuff.

[@-Pol-]

Everything's digital once it goes through the interwebby... 🎸🎙🖥🌐💻🔉🎶👂😝

[@AlextheBant]

Well as an audio engineer i can tell you i have fooled a lot of amp lovers with amp sims and digital stuff. Nobody can discern it. And i say this as a tube amp lover who owns 8 amps. Live with my band i play a tube amp, other guitarist plays a digital rig. Truly both sound just as good. Theres slight differences here and there in feel sometimes. Sometimes not, in the end who cares. We live in an age where theres about a million ways to make good sounding things and its all valid.

[@coolcatfxadoptionagency11]

Just throwing out ideas. I've never played a real full stack or a fully digital rig, so all I have for reference is my orange micros into a cheap 4x12 and a lil crate tube combo, so I can't voice any opinion. New idea: Test plastic enclosures vs. all metal at obscene levels to see if one is noisier than the other, since shielding/grounding with a metal chassis blocks out more rf.

[@equaleyez]

We need a Kemper re visit.

[@earthchild5346]

I had a peavey deuce vt tube amp from like late 70s early 80s maybe? Was older. sounded better than my fender twin cyber which I got brand new. That peavey was crunchy and warm as fuuuuck silky smooth tones on both ends. Tube amps are king imo vs solid state and digital. Depends what you're going for though too it's almost too subjective to draw a conclusion it's more preference person to person I think.

[@jameswest3887]

That was an awesome show!!! I'm looking forward to more of these. Pedal snobs may have some nervous breakdowns.

[@scottkidwellmusic9175]

That, like most of your episodes, was pretty fun. Also educational and entertaining. Thanks, y'all 🙏

[@austinbridge]

WOW. The Rat and Klon comparisons blew my mind. I love it! 👏

[@thehickeys3824]

This show gives such a different experience on pedals than normal Pedal Review Videos

[@coreyclark6505]

This channel can really crush a person who’s bought 6 different overdrives of one type to find that one “magic” one. Great show!

[@paulcowart3174]

Ha ha yeah So which did you end up favoring after all the purchases ??

[@coreyclark6505]

@@paulcowart3174 I stopped buying Overdrives and Fuzzes about 3-4 years ago and started playing with EQ Pedals instead. Not near as glamorous, but they have a huge impact on sound.

[@HenryDixon3]

@@coreyclark6505 Are you EQing before, or after, the overdrives?

[@coreyclark6505]

@@HenryDixon3 both as of recently. I picked up a Source Audio EQ2. I use channel 1 pre and channel 2 post.

[@b.scottfarthingsworth]

@@coreyclark6505 EQ is the secret weapon of tone sculpting, it has made me like dirtboxes that I hated. So that Source Audio EQ2, I was looking into that when it first came out. Well I was looking at the first version, then the next week the 2 came out and the vids on it blew my mind. I need it right?

[@GuitarsZnuff]

Paul Stanley said it best "People listen with their eyes."

[@steverhinefrank5589]

mr. paul stanley took that quote from the other mr. paul (les)...

[@PhilLament]

Good show! Please make several more episodes. Some pairing ideas: wah wah pedals and their "magic" inductors; blues breaker pedal variants vs original; modern chorus/vibrato pedals vs Boss CE-whatevers; modern analog/tape delays vs "the good ones" from yester-years.

[@adamrascon4252]

I love how Josh smashes snobs feelings constantly! Great video! I can taste the snobs’ tears through the internet ahaha

[@jacksprat1124]

A revue show that actually creates real, live, unbiased comparisons AND has fun without wasting a lot of time doing it. Thumbs up!

[@dustinmbox]

I feel like the mis-matched volume contributed to the answers more than the tone difference. Perceivable louder tone tends to sound better. Its weird but really true. Great tone a quiet level usually doesn’t sound as good as poorer tone louder.

[@Guedzilla]

Loud is more good.

[@dustinmbox]

@@Guedzilla absolutely

[@yommish]

Very true and it’ll mess you up while mixing. It’s really helpful to stage each insert as close to equal loudness in/out as you can.

[@Betonschlong]

I love this gameshow-type content! Bluesbreaker clones next? Chuck in a Morning Glory as well and have Josh play it to see if he can find his own pedal! ;)

[@buckdown2464]

Seeing if Josh can hear his own pedal could be an entire show

[@bstoner1300]

3/3 for me, but 1 and 3 were total guesses. Also I guessed the OG rat would be more scooped and a newer style would me more mid forward. But NONE of them were significantly better or worse in this test. Amazing!

[@kevinhudson7555]

what a bloody brilliant concept and show ....we all listen with our eyes

[@nicolaschauxlugo2361]

I love how the people in jhs are always innovating with their content, it makes the idea of learning about tone, guitars, pedals and everything else music related, more enjoyable!! Kudoss

[@drischord]

Very fun. Would love to hear some delay and echo pedals like the EHX Memory Man or a vintage Echoplex.

[@musicmann1967]

This was very interesting and I think it absolutely proves Josh's point of confirmation bias being most of what we "hear" when we decide one piece of gears sounds inherently better than another piece of gear. (I'm totally guilty of this myself) We buy into the whole package and history just as much if not more than the sound. The Rat clone totally fooled me. I guessed the Tube Screamer correctly, but since I'm not a fan of Tube Screamers anyway, I dion't know if that really counts. I got the other two wrong. I do have a suggestion though. For future episodes Josh should do a little "pre production" and find settings for all the boxes ahead of time that he can dial in when he plugs in each pair of pedals, so right out of the gate they sound close. THEN you can start twiddling knobs. Set up the expensive one the ways most people use it, then try to match that with the cheap box, and use those setting before anyone even plays a note. I think it would be even more challenging that way.

[@-Pol-]

That was great! 😆 Defo up for more of this series - I'd like to see a 3 way comparison though: Expensive pedal vs cheap pedal vs cheap multi effect pedal like, say an MS-50g - We also need two participants: Gen-Z with hearing intact vs Gen-X with burned out ears but experience.

[@TrevorScanlan]

I absolutely love these can you hear it vids and the fun energy in the room ans how much joy Josh seems to get out of these experiments

[@TheMusicalSchizo]

Addison, aka JHS' David Arquette. Great job, fellas! What a fun show!

[@alphanumeric1529]

Some else has said it too, I'm not the only one.

[@joelypolely]

I would love more of this, and i think it'd be cool to include amps as well.

[@kbcarroll]

Yes and not necessarily amps meant to sound like other amps. Just put a cheap amp on one side and an expensive amp on the other and ask him to guess which was the expensive amp

[@robotsongs]

Yeah, but I'd hope they do a better job making them sound the same beforehand (especially, at very minimum, volume matching), instead of just looking at pots and approximating.

[@rhrdth]

I'd love to hear the Joyo Bantamp series compared to the heads they are emulating.

[@johnwardle9667]

Thank you JHS pedals team for doing this important work.

[@calebfisher7345]

I love it. my entire board is made up of these budget pedals And know I feel validated LOL

[@davidstrubeck8195]

It’s good to feel validated know and again.

[@broken927]

@@davidstrubeck8195 know, know, David.

[@davidvicars6688]

I now the feeling

[@ickebins6948]

@@davidvicars6688 Atleast know you now

[@BlueBarrier782]

If you are spending more than 100-200, it's just hype. Even in that range you are paying for the same Chinese parts but maybe not Chinese labor (though most of the time you are just paying middlemen.)

[@djpgreek]

“Yeah I think everyone should Google confirmation bias as well” hhahahaha Josh’s face is priceless.

[@Sonico430]

great show idea ! i would recommend trying to have an equal volume comparison... specially in the RAT example, version A (expensive) was lower in volume most of the 1 minute test, and that is a big BIAS when comparing... Louder is going to sound better most of the time.

[@domgirard4095]

yeah, the orginal RAT sounded thin and not set how people use the RAT. The original Klon soujnded less good near the end. It kinda sounds like Josh was trying to fool people with his pedal settings.

[@LIGHT-fp4rd]

louder will almost always sound better..

[@thisperfectworld]

Awesome episode! Please consider doing a vintage Dallas Rangemaster vs. cheaper treble boosters, please!

[@christopherbrown6565]

I feel like this could be even harder if Josh got to set each pedal's settings before the listener could hear it.

[@scottworsham]

Exactly. Pre-set them to be as close in sound to each other as possible in advance, then pick. My guess is that a guess would be just that.

[@DrKevGuitar]

Absolutely. Matching volumes is important in making any meaningful comparison (because the ear will generally prefer the louder pedal).

[@bradleyard4195]

I have the Mosky Silver Horse. I absolutely love that pedal, and feel so good about my cheap purchase after hearing this. It sounds really, really similar to the Klon.

[@Will_Reyes4]

Any difference between the silver and the golden horse?

[@bradleyard4195]

@@Will_Reyes4 The Silver has a toggle switch for extra gain.

[@swampsofhome]

I bought one after this show and laughed all the way to the bank. BTW, I could not hear the difference between the two. Maybe laughing too hard.

[@bradleyard4195]

@@swampsofhome In this case, laughing too hard is appropriate! The Silver Horse is such a ridiculous pedal.

[@octaviohenrique.n]

I've got that small Tumnus, which was the klon clone i liked the most. But i'm really itching to have the JHS take on it... I never liked too much bluesbreaker and tubescreamer circuits... klon is really magical (i use it even for mixing, and tracking drums, sometimes vocals for light colour in parallel). Thanks for letting it being affordable! You US pedal guys really deserved more, but for us third world countriers 99 dollars are already expensive around here! So it helps us a lot when you go budget friendly...

[@maxellison55]

Do this again. Very much enjoyed the comparisons!

[@keenaband]

Good object lesson in confirmation bias, an affliction that combines with FOMO resulting in severe GAS. An additional point to add, when you get in the thrash and crash of a pub gig, I think it gets even harder to hear differences.

[@pedrova8058]

I had to do sound in some local shows, and it's amazing to see how the psyche influences the musician "hears". There is always someone who insists that you correct their mix, more volume, more treble, more drums, etc. And when you already know that the guy is going to bother you all night because he "doesn't listen", you just make a gesture on the console, as if you were adjusting something. And the guy is as happy as if you had given him more volume. Always works! LOL

[@chrisrussell1318]

Great pilot guys!! That was not only helpful but just down right fun!! You rock🤘🎶🎸

[@danielsauriol]

for the third shootout (silver klon, $29 vs $7K) : that means you can buy 233 x Bezos Clones for the value of a single authentic Klon that just proved to sound the same ? Extremely surprising, interesting and baffling all at the same time !!! Definitely Food for Thoughts !! Thanks a lot Josh for bringing us back to Planet Earth !!!

[@brettfuller6603]

This was a lot of fun because I know through my crappy speakers I rarely hear the difference, and it was nice to see that live with no bias they couldn't really either

[@jchamplin7904]

The hand modelling was stellar!

[@Craig_Fussell]

Agree that this can be a really fun series! There are soooo many good pedals out there and knock-offs from Caline, NuX, Mosky, Moorer, etc etc, you could make it a weekly thing! One that I think would be a tough one to pick is the Jan Ray vs. Caline Pure Sky✌🏻

[@michaelm2336]

First off, KUDOS to Addison for putting himself out there for this challenge. My suggestion would be even more risky/challenging for another brave or foolish JHS soul - can a current JHS employee do a Versus episode using JHS pedals versus the OG reference pedals of their types? Maybe if they can get *all* the JHS pedals correct, they can have a paid, nice lunch or something (I'd certainly chip in for their meal)

[@hjalmarconte4926]

This was awesome! I have been saying for a long time to all the cork sniffers out there that the Mosky Klon is AWESOME, and gets you there for 25 bucks (closer/as close as the 400/600 'boutique' versions ...) ... but hey-ho ... a fool and his money ....

[@WPAPi3.14]

Do more of these!!!!! Got the first one. Second and third I bellyfloped!! Thanks Wa McDowell

[@petergraham9267]

"Confirmation Bias" best thing said all day! That Klon / clone test was epic.......$7,000!! That has NOTHING to do with tone, and everything to do with collectability-gone-mad! 😂

[@jamiebriggs8277]

Sweet. That's the Rat clone I have, and that's the Klon clone I have. Love them both, and they were dirt cheap! Would like to see some fuzz comparisons: I have the Behringer Super Fuzz, and the Soniccake Fazy Cream Muff clone

[@BlueBarrier782]

The most massive sounding muff I've played was a cheap Eno BMF . . . Clones can be surprising

[@gerrickreidenbach8147]

I think there is a difference between trying to pick the more expensive pedal and the better sounding pedal. That may be where Addison went a bit off track. The contestant should, perhaps, be allowed to choose one or the other criteria, or both, when they give their final answer. Either way, you still have a relevant game show, plenty of fun and lots of points to make. Also, the use of an actual partition or 'blind fold' (think blacked out goggles of some sort) between the contestant and the host would be a more legitimate way of concealing each device. Then, the audience could know the identity of each pedal before the contestant, guess which pedal the contestant may pick in each criteria and avoid playing the same role as the contestant each episode. Thanks for another entertaining peek into the world of JHS!

[@qujo777]

Thoughts: Use a looper pedal to ensure that strumming or playing doesn’t affect how each pedal is played. Play in a band setting - in a genre specific to the pedal’s most appropriate purpose -

[@mhoop1]

i was looking at drive pedals. just bought the amazon one. thanks for the demo!

[@SugarShaneGuitarist]

Great series! Looking forward to future episodes. Would love to see Marshall Bluesbreaker v1 vs. Mooer Blues Crab.

[@dnc1769]

A 'basic' chorus pedal shootout would be pretty interesting. ie: each pedal should have the same parameters because obviously an Eventide ModFactor is going to sound better than a $30 Amazon pedal but what about a vintage Boss CE-1 or CE-2 ?

[@deesnudts5182]

I used to manage a guitar shop and I was downright amazed how often the "lowly" Dano Fab Chorus for like $25 used to beat out way more expensive chorus pedals back to back

[@MediHusky]

@@deesnudts5182 beat me to it

[@drdee3645]

Just discovered this channel - excellent stuff! And Josh is hilarious - the Peter Kay of Guitar Gear!😄 Never fails to brighten up my day 😎

[@howardmaryon]

I know that the whole “vintage pedals have to be better than modern clones and therefore stupid expensive” concept has been a “ bete noir” for Josh since forever, and I know that Addison has an excellent ear for tone, so Point made. However this was a lot of fun so more episodes please, who is going to be the next contestant?

[@aynakotalaga]

Would love to see some pedal legends as contestants! Phill Keeley?

[@aynakotalaga]

@Robert Cooper haha yes! Phill Kelley was a bloke I used to work with!

[@orcsong]

The honesty here is super refreshing. (And fun!)

[@sleonse]

Man, I LOVE this yt channel 😂❤🎉

[@toddgibson6817]

This is hilarious and should teach people that they shouldn't be buying into this crazy hype surrounding pedals.

[@unitedstatesofmordor]

Agreed! How about; Klon v Caline Pegasus Boss CE2 v Tone City Angel Wing Strymon (shimmer) v Caline Wonderland Fuzz Face v cheap alternative etc. v cheaper etc...

[@JoeBaermann]

@@unitedstatesofmordor Indeed, cheaper doesn't always mean worse, often comes down to the builder getting the components and circuit right. The propper Klon clones also come with germanium diodes which only differ in being a tad smaller these days, electrical they do the exact same thing, besides the tone boost one expects from such a pedal, the tiny difference one might notice will drown in the mix anyway. Only reason to buy an expensive old classic is for the investment, besides that I personally never would take a 7000$ hard to get classic with me to a stage. DIY brings even more fun into it, since there are some kits that include close to every possible mod and by that add way more versatility to the pedal while still keeping the price under $80.

[@jimtroeltsch5998]

no way, Todd! its clearly rigged to confirm Josh's agenda on making cheap pedals seem appealing. Any aficionado of tone can see through this charade. You clearly haven't played long enough and haven't spent enough money on pedals, peasant.

[@BoltBrethren]

I think people get the assignment wrong. We’re listing for which one is the REAL version, not “which one sounds better. If you know how to identify what it should sound like you can guess it right. If you’re trying to decide which one you like more it could go either way.

[@CenterThePendulum]

@@BoltBrethren The question posed has the undercurrent purpose of debunking paying obscene money for the original. Knowing which is the original doesn’t provide any real-world utility unless you’re trying to not get scammed after paying $7k for what may be a convincing fake

[@Reportageandart]

It's important to point out, sometimes a higher price is not because it sounds better... but sometimes its a collectable factor. Like with anything, collectors seek certain things and that affects price. Supply and demand. Also, of course, what sounds better is completely subjective. Use and enjoy the tools you prefer for your sound and have fun.

[@BrantleyAllen]

No one admits to owning one because it's a collector's item. They spent the money because it "sounds" better. Golden magical diodes.

[@lostboys-niagarapartyband1915]

The Tube Screamer was louder. So right there, the perception is that it's better. Take two identical sounds, make one just slightly louder and it will always be picked as sounding better.

[@randoman81]

I bought a $30 Mosky, and I'll never look back. This reminds of wine tasters. You can put box wine in a fancy wine's bottle and they'll taste it with their eyes. Pour that fancy wine in a box and watch them spit it out with disgust. 10/10 times unless they know the specific vineyard and vintage by blind taste, they'll never know what is actually what.

[@jayvoorhees2931]

More of these videos please! So awesome. Thanks guys!

[@st3ngah]

The Mosky Black Rat is a very good sounding pedal.

[@BlueBarrier782]

I've been saying it for a couple years now . . . The Mosky Black Rat is seriously underrated and works really damn well for styles like doom metal. Its my favorite RAT, and I've got rats and variants that cost 10 times as much.

[@brian91145]

i agree i love my 90s Rat but it comes close!

[@st3ngah]

@@BlueBarrier782 Absolutely. I use mine as a low gain overdrive on bass. The Mosky sounds every bit as good as my Kinnetone modded Proco Rat and it keeps its low end better than the Proco too.

[@rhrdth]

Add to that its small pedal footprint and you've got a winner. Some people hate on it though for being a much cheaper clone of their favorite expensive dirt pedal.

[@EJK36]

I have a Donner that's amazing. Isn't there something up with the Mosky though where the tone stack is darker due to a resistor value error that was kept or something like that? It's not a 100% conventional Rat over whatever it is that's different. It's actually where the name "Black Rat" came from; which is mad clevor considering that it sounds darker.

[@googaboogaloo]

Also a good tell would be to crank the gain and see how much noise they have when you aren’t playing.

[@Paul_Lenard_Ewing]

If you did that all the vintage fuzz pedals would loose. 60's tech was really noisy and pedals only criteria were to be cheap but reliable enough to keep working 3 months when the warranty ran out, lol.

[@googaboogaloo]

@@Paul_Lenard_Ewing true I didn’t even think of that. I only had new and boutique pedals in mind

[@Paul_Lenard_Ewing]

@@googaboogaloo I have 72 pedals wired up as 3 separate boards but used as one with a switcher. I use a 'smart' noise gate on on each board. It would be insane not to. I have dead silence on my whole rig. It frees me up to use vintage pedals, crazy Fuzz pedals and single coils :-)

[@leopoldbluesky]

@@Paul_Lenard_Ewing How do you deal with tone suck with that many pedals?

[@Paul_Lenard_Ewing]

@@leopoldbluesky If you buy pedals for sound alone at least 20% will have buffers in them. I also play wireless ALL wireless systems use a buffer. My Boss switcher has a buffer on every loop. At the end of my chain I have BBE signal processor. Tone suck is babble speak for loosing the very high end. Add to that I play a Metal style that even my clean sound I use low gain transparent OD's which by there very nature exaggerate the all the harmonics. Those harmonics are your high end sparkle. Also remember that NOT putting a buffer in a pedal has been generally pushed by an industry where leaving it out saves them money. Finally Rock was ALWAYS based on "If it sounds good it is good" :-)

[@MetalMarcJK]

This was a great show! Can't wait for the next installment. I got the Ibanez and the Klon right and got the RAT wrong. Honestly, the Ibanez sounded better, so I picked it and lucked out. The Amazon RAT sounded better than the actual Whiteface RAT, to be honest, so I biffed that one and guessed wrong. I owned a Centaur a long time ago, and there was one small sound I heard at either :13 or :14 secs left when Addison was playing the cheapie that the Klon wouldn't make (it was the guitar equivalent of a mic being overdriven...sort of a microsecond of bad saturation), but that one small microsecond was the ONLY way I could tell them both apart; otherwise, they both sounded great.

[@KeithCollyer]

Yep, the B "rat" sounded better to me. Could be because it was louder, but it also seemed to be more meaty

[@MetalMarcJK]

Agreed, @@KeithCollyer. I’m not a “louder is better, but like you, I did like the Great Value RAT’s volume and the “meat” of its sound.

[@Marimba7]

Great vid as always guys! Also, always pleased to see the cheapo pedals I have holding their own against their more expensive brethren (i.e. the actual, original pedals). I have most of the Mosky drive pedals and fully recommend the Black Rat and silver Klone, but their Mini Muff (now changed to “Mini Fuzz Distortion” presumably because of the “Muff” in the previous name!) and Crunch Red distortion are also cracking pedals. Their Timmy and BB Preamp overdrives are pretty handy too 👍 But, for Rats, I think you missed a trick: on my main pedalboard, sat right under my Keeley Caverns v2 (which I know Nick will approve of!), is a Dolamo Vintage Distortion, which is a fantastic pedal. Three Rat voicings cost me £17.22, which I guess is around the $25 mark…gets my full endorsement. Keep up the good work folks, and the sick burns 😂

[@5T3LTH]

I’m going to have to pick up a black rat and a silver horse on your recommendation dude. Already have a real vintage big muff that has seen a ton of use on my board.

[@adamlindsley1143]

Loved this! A few unsolicited suggestions for future episodes, if you decide to stick with this idea: * Increase the number of people playing the game to, say, three (passing the guitar around), and they submit their guesses in secret. * Let Josh be one of the players! * Dump the 1-minute timer and instead have the players play the pedals on a few predetermined settings. The random knob-turned where one pedal is set to a completely different setting than the other pedal means you can't compare the sounds back to back. * Allow viewers to vote, just to compare their ears to the players'.

[@tvav69]

Clones are EXACTLY the same circuits so why would anyone pay more? Clout, obviously. 😂

[@AndrewRMontoya]

Mmm… I just got a mooer blues breaker and it SUCKS…. The tone completely out of my guitar. I’ve never played a blues breaker, but there is no way that, that’s the tone that is legendary.

[@aynakotalaga]

Brilliant! Would love to see the Boss Waza vs the Originals.

[@tds2117]

That would make a lot of people cry.

[@jburdsinfuse]

There are 100s of those videos because Boss sent them to every guitar channel on KZbin. Same as the original sound, but the originals are limited in their feature set. At this point, you can get all of the Waza pedals for about half retail cost. I paid less than $125 for the Metal Zone and DM2 each, so in any case, great pedals and value.

[@SumoRabbitOfDoom]

What a time to be alive!

[@JeremyJames_studio]

Brilliant video! Thank you. Love to see/hear one on delays, tone benders and reverbs

[@morganghetti]

Hilarious. Reminds me of the time the Gear Page was collectively blowing it's load over the new hand made boutique overdrive pedal that turned out to be a painted Joyo ultimate drive. You guys need to do some digital stuff like Line 6 Helix vs the real pedal.

[@nobodies6853]

That’s a great idea

[@marcusbeyer8481]

I love that idea. “Can you hear it” digital vs analog edition

[@G_Demolished]

I’ll tell you what. Stack a Joyo American Sound with any Klon clone and you can get amazing tone!

[@nobodyknows4590]

That is still funny after all this time. And now they see that builder as literally Stalin.

[@MrSpeed-lt8gr]

I had the Mosky for about a year or so and it sounded great. It stopped working on me but for 30 bucks I couldn’t complain. I just got the TC Zeus. And I really like that one.

[@CMHobbies]

Mine lasted 8 months.

[@Nightwinflyer]

The Zeus is outstanding! I was tracking with it just yesterday.

[@joseislanio8910]

Have mine for over 2 years still working

[@asterisk606]

Do you know what broke on it? It could be a pretty simple fix if it's hardware related like the switch.

[@MrSpeed-lt8gr]

@@asterisk606 not sure honestly. It wouldn’t power on. I think I fried something by accident when I tried to plug it in with the power supply already plugged into the wall. So that was on me.

[@zorkname]

I like this one! Only thought is 1 minute is probably too short to have a proper impression on a pedals difference.

[@jeffdowning4877]

I love the opening about silencing phones and hushing babies. And that it is on screen for like 20 seconds , like seriously hush that baby or we will not continue Haha.

[@jasonserpent4214]

This was an awesome concept! More of this please!

[@shannonadkinsmusic5767]

The Klon circuits were really hard to tell apart. Sounded identical to me. But I definitely prefered the real RAT. Just liked the high end much better. Would never pay $7xx for any pedal, though.

[@maxeddis1138]

I'd love if you, prior to shooting, marked out a couple settings on both pedals (like a high gain and low gain setting) to dial each pedal in and get them sounding identical. I find myself picking the louder or brighter one each time which in itself is a good conclusion of the video. Video on a marshall bluesbreaker, Boss CE-2, and maybe some delay could be cool.

[@MetalMarcJK]

Agreed. Perhaps Josh shouldn't be the one to adjust the pedals, but someone else should be doing it, changing the settings, and because they see it all and know what's what, they can't comment on it.

[@pirhala]

That was really cool! I was surprised with the klon! I felt like the original had more bass to it. Addison, you should have known that the white faced rat wouldn’t have had so much bass to it.

[@richardburkow3792]

Great, fun format - thanks!

[@timmy707707]

I fell for and bought the silver horse.....it mates perfectly with my route 66...it's whisper quiet even with the 66's compression and dirty channel active. I've gone through a lot of junk to find this combo. Thanks....

[@j.r.g3548]

Came back just to say I'm disappointed this series didn't make it past the pilot 😢

[@diggpen1249]

Actually there was a second episode. You have to click the "Live" tab in their youtube channel, or search "$4,000 Big Muff".

[@j.r.g3548]

@@diggpen1249 oh sweet! Thanks for pointing that out!

[@diggpen1249]

@@j.r.g3548 Hey, I found a third one today on my feed! It's called "Vintage Vs Modern (Small Clone, DS-1, Meat Box) With Rob Scallon"