Which is most efficient - snatch block or snatch ring?

[@L2SFBC]

Here's the answer to the most common question - why didn't I connect the loadcell to the return line? l2sfbc.com/why-didnt-i-measure-the-return-force/

[@jvalentine8376]

Another thing I just thought of is what would be the results if the dyneema rope was dirty as hell and full of sand etc. I bet then the snatch block would edge further ahead .

[@L2SFBC]

Yes agreed will do that test 👍

[@bennylloyd-willner9667]

I'll check your link, but wouldn't that placement not record a proper loss?

[@ajh1155]

I wish there was a search through comments function in case my thought has been covered. Regarding wear on the soft shackles… if offset rings where used the ring would not rotate…so no wear on the shackle. Of course now the winch rope would wear. However I understand the ropes have a coating which would then become sacrificial. Have fun designing a test on comparing the wear rates between shackles and ropes…! I would think though that in a dirty environment I’d rather the ring rotated lessening sandpapering of the winch rope…replacing soft shackles is always going to be cheaper and much more convenient than replacing winch ropes.

[@L2SFBC]

Will address that another time

[@vinceblanchard1069]

Excellent video! I bought a snatch ring a couple of years ago before they were really known in the off-road industry in North America and was met with nothing but negativity and how they wouldn’t work. Great to see some scientific facts about efficiency comparisons with traditional snatch blocks. Thanks for making the video.

[@L2SFBC]

Great to hear! Always some Luddites...

[@susantipsyhealy7655]

I was just thinking of what best bloc to purchase when I saw this. Will look at the rings instead.

[@Dadnatron]

I'm really glad you discussed the 'results vs reality'. People get caught up on 'best' based on an eXcel diagram rather than 'best' based on real world use and differences.

[@allanhugh2044]

At 2'23" the greatest pun I've seen in a long time. "How the test was rigged." As usual, a very well thought out presentation. The LCD screen on the brick wall is great. Thoroughly enjoyed it and certainly very good food for thought.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks glad I invested in the TV then 👍

[@L2SFBC]

Yes

[@lurpwgn]

I know this is an old video, but the representation was great. Great job testing and putting it all together. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@danielowens4789]

It’s important to pick the right snatch! Don’t wanna drop your load prematurely.

[@bluestormcloud791]

This entire test was rigged.

[@lifesabroad]

Come on KZbin algorithm, do your thing! This channel deserves more attention. Out of curiosity, I did a quick search of the tested products and found the prices as follows: 1. ARB (Block): $170 2. George (Ring): $99 3. Ridge Ryder (Block): $55 4. Saber (Ring): $130 5. Drifta 12T (Ring): $125 6. Factor 55 (Ring): $170 7. Red Winches (Ring): $135 8. CampBoss (Ring+Soft Shackle): $200 Interesting to see the difference in price, especially given the outcome. Might have to check out George, seems to have good prices all round.

[@LewisTheFly888]

You are so correct - I was astounded by the science and accuracy of his methods and his thoroughness

[@derekmikolaj5362]

Interesting that I have a Ridge Rider block (under a different name) and have to clean and service it after use especially after sand and mud whereas the ring has no wear, but the soft shackle does wear -- you thoughts Robert ?

[@Abend0]

Thanks for once again combining science and off-roading. Great video!

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you please share etc!

[@TruBluOffroad]

I love the amount of trouble you've gone through to prove what's known. Hopefully it shuts up some of those wild ideas from those that know they are 100% correct but are wrong. 😂 I appreciate you. 👌

[@L2SFBC]

You and me both! Thank you for the comment!

[@coptotermes]

Mate, you are a recovery nerd of the highest degree. I mean that as a compliment! Sometimes I struggle to watch the whole vid but I appreciate you posting and sharing the info. :)

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jims408]

Outstanding methodology: showing the complete set-ups and all the data! Many thanks, very helpful!

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, in my view results don't mean much unless you can show method and data. Every test has limitations, so readers/watchers should be able to judge for themselves.

[@silenceondort1314]

Great video, but I do think one of the fundamental that was not taken in consideration is the advantage of radius of snatch blocks compared to radius of snatch rings. Greater radius seems to reduce friction.

[@SuperBardley]

As a technically-oriented professional, I appreciate your methodologies, presentations, and explanations of conclusions. Well done, thorough, and valid science.

[@ifyoucantjointhem]

I really love these thorough tests and I can fully appreciate the actual time invested to run each test, collect the numbers and process the data. Great video and fascinating results. To go one step further might be to compare the losses of different diameter blocks and rings. It's all academic, but to be scientific. Cheers 🤙

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you and yes any differences in diameter would be tiny and probably outside my ability to measure and therefore not relevant in the real world.

[@bensimpson9175]

I have a different application: woodland/landscape management. I have to pull some invasive rose and unwanted saplings, without a truck or tractor. I've been using KZbin University all weekend. The algorithm FINALLY served up your channel, and I want to compliment you: your explanations are easy to understand. I'll be using a come along and plenty of snatch blocks to save my back! Subbed!

[@L2SFBC]

thanks Ben!

[@mjoelnir1899]

Snatch rings are fine when you have thrown out your wire cable. Otherwise you still need your snatch block.

[@fm4695]

What a fantastic presentation!!! Thank you for all the work, expense, and effort you put into this experiment. I subscribed and "thumbs upped" the content. You provided, for free to us netizens, a thoroughly professional, scientific experiment\demonstration of equipment very relevant to us off-roaders who simply do not have the education, intellect, and/or experience to obtain this information for ourselves. Thank you. Based on your results, I have invested in snatch blocks versus the snatch rings and for me, am thoroughly confident they are the better option (not strictly related to absolute performance, but also for ensuring longer, safe functionality of the soft shackles used in recoveries). I have also watched several of your other videos and you must certainly be a scientist, professor or engineer!

[@stolzhammer3239]

Journalism with technical knowledge and research. Top shelf as always Robert.

[@lukebrady3728]

and without the giant ego !

[@born-again-hooligan]

Respect to the amount of time and research you put into this.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, much appreciated!

[@eepaj2486]

i love how your videos are straight to the point and highly detailed keep up the good work

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks please share 👍

[@kathyl67]

I'm so glad I took the time to watch this video. It makes so much sense now. Thanks for experimenting, data collecting and explaining everything so simply on a subject that can be quite complex :)

[@ian9toes]

Thanks

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks so much Ian, that Super Thanks is equivalent to many, many, many views worth of advertsing revenue!!!

[@peterjohn5781]

Very informative. Have swapped to rings over recent years (Factor 55 and Saber) for reasons other efficiency - weight, space saving and safety. However pleasing to see that I have not lost much in terms of efficiency.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, not much in it, and not really worth paying a lot more for a more efficient ring which would only split the difference to about 6-7% efficiency.

[@kenmuggli4613]

Excellent work Robert, I really appreciate your very thoughtful approach to testing.

[@1chrisandrew1]

This is really great analysis Robert, and I'm pleased to see the snatch rings performing the way they did

[@UnbendingMetal]

Concise and clear content! There are so many people confused on the use of blocks, you do an excellent job of explaning it!! +1 Subscriber

[@kevinmartin9432]

Excellent tutorial, a lot easier to understand than the classroom lessons at the IVR.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@alexdevries7594]

Another excellent video thank you Robert! I love seeing the actual data! No more assumptions, just the truth. Fantastic job!!

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, please share etc...and yes more data on the way :-)

[@biggs8729]

Thank you. Your vids are absolutely great. Answered nearly all my questions. I fully expected that the blocks would be the most efficient, but the efficiency of the rings surprised me. The George 4x4 ring seems like the best buy. Looking forward to what you do next.

[@L2SFBC]

Which questions weren't answered?

[@biggs8729]

@@L2SFBC curious if there is a difference between anodized vs polished aluminum vs Teflon coating vs painted. Seems like the George 4x4, the polished aluminum did the best. Also wondering if it makes as much difference as I thought, the overall diameter of the sheeve and the center hole size. Seems like a larger outer diameter and a smaller center hole would be best. Overall I was impressed with the top 3, thanks for the review.

[@L2SFBC]

Larger Dd should be best but the Saber was not the top performer. The George is a good buy yes. I think there is a difference between wear on rope and efficiency.

[@Matthewsoftball]

This is exactly the kind of data I was looking for! Thanks!

[@uuugberns]

I'm very happy to had find your video, I was looking for low friction ring use for sailing. Your approach was very informative, and base in facts as much as you could.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful! Please share :-)

[@moslereverett]

Excellent! Well-conducted testing and thorough analysis!

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you!

[@MB-tr5sz]

Great video. Thanks for your efforts putting this together.

[@L2SFBC]

You're welcome!

[@brandonswan9247]

Bravo! Beautiful demonstration.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you very much!

[@dizietz]

Thanks for the great research.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks please share !

[@MediaFilter]

The key part - results analysis - is at @16:50-18:50. Nice work Robert!

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, but I need to do the other parts so the results are credible :-)

[@gregparrott]

This was a surprising and interesting YT video suggestion. Thanks! I have a block and an off-brand ring. The profile of the ring at its root differs from that on the block. The block has a semicircular root profile while the ring's root profile is flatter, with a radiused transition into the sloped guide-channel. The root profile affects how the rope deforms. An interesting test would be how the profile affects efficiency.

[@Malc664]

Good info to know, thanks. I have a block and the weight is no problem, so for now it's the block.

[@solosaga5091]

Thanks for your time investment. Excellent comparison! Valuable information. Edit to add: Looks like someone needs to build a ring with a bearing.

[@L2SFBC]

Watch this space...

[@AZOverland2017]

Very well done video and analysis. Thank you for taking the time to do this and for your conclusions.

[@L2SFBC]

My pleasure! Please share :-)

[@jonathanconway7256]

Outstanding tests and presentation! You deserve more subscribers.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you..please share, would appreciate it!

[@Athiril]

That’s pretty good, think I’ll go with a ring for the convenience

[@johnpatterson9829]

Robert, I think I have just watched your PhD viva, assuming of course that it was not already in your hands. Thank you and congratulations on your presentation.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@HIBSTERR]

thank you very much... loved your detailed analysis. I know you spend a lot time creating this for us.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes I do appreciate your comment!

[@tdm8817]

Awesome video! It’s great to see a theory tested and to allow the results to speak for themselves. Would love to see ya test ball bearing and bronze bushing snatch blocks!

[@lukebrady3728]

Hi again Robert, Your work is more than impressive, and your thoroughness and diligence in preparation and execution of these test are absolutely fantastic. You have helped me and god knows how many other newcomers to the 4wd community, which unfortunately, is full of bullshit artists, massive egos and everyone wanting a freebie and a silent fee (better known as "influencer", and I won't mention the identity of that chap's You-tube channel, with the double barreled surname.) Humility is a rare and wonderful commodity ! ! Would love to help your channel when I get some spare $$ Greetings from Melbourne, Australia. Thank you again.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks Luke much appreciated!

[@lukebrady3728]

@@L2SFBC I'll keep my word about the $$, and I'm pretty sure you know who I was referring to in the earlier comment.

[@TripRide675]

Great practical analysis!

[@L2SFBC]

thanks please share!

[@LewisTheFly888]

Brilliant work. Just brilliant. Thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks please share 👍

[@gringo19860]

If only I had a physics teacher like you at school...😂 Fantastic stuff, thanks.

[@richlittlewood516]

Excellent information and testing, thx Robert and team

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you!

[@CaseysOffRoadRecovery]

Looking forward to checking out your channel more. Over from Mad Matt 4wd's 80 series recovery. Great information on this video, I was just discussing this with Matt

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks Casey's will check out yours too!

[@nyleluke]

Very thorough, great information,

[@Marf-yt]

I appreciate the attention to detail and the methodology. I'm surprised the Factor 55 didn't do better with the Teflon infusion they advertise.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, and yes...test is what test is! Please share :-)

[@mvblitzyo]

most excellent science .. well put together video ..

[@robertpepper9034]

Thank you

[@nickelodeo]

Excellent. Interesting, and I appreciate your thoughts

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks for watching! Please share :-)

[@davidrucci]

Amazing. So good to see actual data for this… 👌❤️

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks please share 👍

[@funvangroovn176]

Terrific comparisons...thank you!

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks for watching please share :-)

[@flyingsodwai1382]

Thanks for the work.

[@L2SFBC]

My pleasure!

[@nickjennings8317]

very thorough and interesting Rob, thank you. Regards Nick

[@kaikhooneddieseet1448]

Thank you for using Crosby StraightPoint Load Cells. Great explanation and great video

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful! Please share :-)

[@MatthewPerkins88]

As always Robert, you deliver incredibly detailed and well explained analysis that's easy to digest, and takes a lot of considerations into place. What excites me most about these results, and the evolving technology in recovery equipment is the weight and space savings in your 4x4. Snatch block to rings is a significant space and weight saving. Soft shackles from metal d-shackles is a significant weight saving. kinetic ropes from snatch straps are lighter and can be packed smaller, winch cable to winch rope again a significant weight saving. This is making your load much less, and easier and safer to store in your 4x4 for quick access, and reducing your overall vehicle load.

[@L2SFBC]

Agreed, that's why I recommend snatch rings now for recreational use, and only carry them myself. Thanks for the comment!

[@lmp2208]

Well presented and scientific approach. Well constructed experiment although I wouldn’t have described the results as the rings were half as efficient as the pulley blocks, although you describe it in a better way elsewhere. I would describe the rings as 95% as effective as the puller blocks.

[@MonkeyWithAWrench]

"the ol' crap block came steaming through" I dont know why, but that pun got me. But I will say, this is a nice thorough test that is in line with most other tests. The tests that don't line up with this one are the ones with serious testing methodology flaws. Good video!

[@L2SFBC]

Finally someone noticed!!!! Thanks 👍 And yes there's at least one with flaws so serious the results are invalidated.

[@tomfrantz]

Thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

You're welcome!

[@tommymoto83]

Well done Sir! Thanks.

[@malcolmknowles9310]

Great testing Robert with a scientific means of measuring the total load on the anchor and the load on each of the ropes either side of the Snatch Block. I do wonder though how there is a similar lineal load difference of results on "Test ! " right across the whole test and especially during the "Rest" in the middle of this winch episode. I would have thought the load cells two lines Orange and Green would have converged at this point! I have an identical snatch block used in test 1 purchased from TJM around 1984, mine is a bit more bent and buckled though. Interesting the Ridge Rider Snatch Block had the pin rotating in the housing thereby not allowing the pulley to rotate on the pin with a bigger surface load bearing area and may have contributed a greater frictional loss. The old wire rope scenario still rings true though of the radius the wire rope has to go around a pulley - the bigger the diameter pulley means the rope doesn't flex and bind with friction more between individual wires or strands which will shorten the life of the rope.

[@JohnSmith-zj5mp]

I could nerd out on this shit all day! Top vid mate.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks John please share 🙏

[@ocrun6765]

Great test. Most crucial is to find out who makes "Crap Block". I do think I'll go ahead and add a few rings to my kit in case I ever need to do a reverse winch.

[@kalebmorrison9317]

Where can I get me one of them crap blocks

[@bryanseredynski6166]

Wow... actually learned a lot. Awesome

[@L2SFBC]

Glad to hear that, please share!

[@leonkane8240]

I had wondered about this. I had the idea that with the rings generally synthetic rope will flatten & make more surface area contact, both with the line & the soft shackle, so of course more resistance & so friction. I have little experience, I am only getting started with familiarizing myself on recovery. My observations have mostly been what I have seen on YT. I had thought that as a general rule snatch blocks were designed for steel cable. I had heard some online state that the rope used with the snatch blocks would be more inclined to damage the synthetic line. So I was a little surprised to see you use the synthetic rope with the blocks. To my mind a an improved snatch block design to be uses with the synthetic rope would give a little better efficiency & wear. A wider pulley that is machined with a gentle valley & rounded edges & so to rounded edges on the 2 closing plates of the block. The pulley turning on a pin similar to a conventional block. I am yet to see anything like this on the market design wise that goes in this direction. The Philosophy seems to be more focused on weight saving. That is not a criticism, only an observation. I guess any improvement in efficiency & wear is probably not going to be that much better , so the cost of design improvement is probably going to give a huge cost for little improvement. But this video has kind of swayed me from going & buying a ring & soft shackle & maybe machining up my own wider pulley to test what I have suggested here.

[@L2SFBC]

The blocks I've seen have a good sheave diameter, and groove for synth rope. Yes rings are about weight, cost and bulk saving. And yes, I agree that given blocks and rings are so close, there's not much point trying to create a better ring..the gains are marginal. However, I would think there is some work to be done around care of rope. But, that needs a lot of testing! Interested to see what you come up with.

[@shawnmancebo1217]

What a great test. The result was on with what I felt as the test result came out. Question I was wander when you tested the rings I lost track of the rings different sizes so with that I was wandering if the bigger ring having more surface area, making the rope travel farther vrs the smaller ring with less surface area add in the resistances with the given load in addition heat of the rope sliding over the ring . I think you have the data already but would be interesting if a larger ring would be more or less effective than a small ring when under load I like the snantch blocks with bearing myself but the the ring block does have advantages over the long run in weight and space and at the end of the day they just work Thanks for doing the test !

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks Shawn. Please share!

[@donaldmcphail1078]

Looking forward to a comparison with multiple snatchblocks.

[@L2SFBC]

Coming

[@fredio54]

Re the ridge ryder snatch block, did you put a grease gun on it and pack it before use? Or dry as they come off the shelf? Or a lighter oil? Hard to say at those low speeds what would be best but a thin moly grease would be my pick. If you were running it dry it's no wonder it was worse than the other two which should have had at least some residual lubrication from the years of use where surely at some point someone put some grease or oil into them :-)

[@fredio54]

It'd be cool to see the same test for the rings with the soft shackle waxed or oiled with something that won't harm the fibres - I bet you it'd be more efficient again.

[@L2SFBC]

It was bought off the shelf. Didn't grease any of them!

[@fredio54]

@@L2SFBC Misuse, then! :-D grease nipple is not for nothing. It's required for efficiency and longevity :-) Your old ones had something in them, even if it was some fine clay dust that was helping them turn a little easier. Retest with appropriate lube on all three, pretty please :-) Ditto with wax on the soft shackles/rings.

[@guerd87]

Now this is a good video done correctly! The water test shows that the friction of rings increase with load at a higher rate than the block does. Again the difference between bushes and bearings. More load requires less friction. The blocks i would assume failed at this one because of the actuall weight of the block wheel over the weight of the ring causing what looks like more friction but is actually more dead weight

[@guerd87]

If you were to spin both a block and ring on a steel shaft the block would take considerable more force to get started than the ring. But with that inertia the block would spin for a lot longer time

[@L2SFBC]

Yep good points 👍

[@tpv59]

EXCELLENT Sir, EXCELLENT. 10+/10!

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you liked it!

[@tpv59]

@@L2SFBC I liked it!

[@pjetenere1]

I think that the Crap block is an early 80's one from ARB,, I have a couple of them.

[@fatmanfaffing4116]

Excellent video...again. I have just bought 4 rings to replace my 4 blocks in my Self Recovery Kit. Basically using mechanical advantage I can 'winch' myself out manually. The big issue was weight with the 4 blocks weighing in around 12kg. Now the 4 rings wipe more than 10kg off that. I have basically taken a 14kg kit down to under 5kg. This leaves weight-room for my chain and rebar ground anchor. Your videos have helped me considerably; especially with the maths and safety considerations. I've seen the results of recoveries gone horribly wrong in the Army so I'm well aware of what I don't know and your material has filled a few gaps. Thankyou. Aside from that... you resemble a man my Dad served with in the RAF FEAF Band in Singapore in 1968-70; Fred Pepper. Any relation?

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks! Would appreciate a share. Sorry no relation.

[@fatmanfaffing4116]

@@L2SFBC When I do my update video on my self recovery system I will certainly link to your channel and give a shout out for the value your vids have been. The physics are vital and your vids explain them in terms anyone can understand; which of course is what good communication is all about. I only invested in the extra snatch blocks and rope after studying your winch videos and gaining the confidence my idea would work. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4rLdoFuj7V3bKs

[@scotts5194]

Thank you Robert. I was one of those vocal about the inefficiency of the rings, so I'm pleased to see a well designed test that proves me wrong. I'm also interested to see that, as with so many cases, more expensive doesn't mean better. I wonder if winch speed affects the efficiencies? Would a high-speed competition winch, pulling at higher speed, show a greater difference in efficiencies, or if the ratios would remain the same? Probably not of great practical significance, and I doubt the competition guys would be too concerned either way.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks Scott - comp winches would be different as you say due to higher speeds, and greater duration of winching. I noticed some heat buildup - more on that later. Recreational winching is typically 2000kg or under, and 30 seconds on/off, maybe more. So quite low stress. Important to understand the application before selecting gear.

[@scotts5194]

@@L2SFBC Thanks Robert. When you do triple line pull, will you also test sequence i.e. one will turn faster than the other, my gut feel is to use block for the higher speed, and ring for lower speed. Would be interested if there's a practical difference, but not sure how you'd test?

[@L2SFBC]

I have an idea for speed :-)

[@mrbenno]

As always. A very informative and well delivered analysis. Would you consider doing a video on the best way to jump start a 4WD given there are so many different ways, but I'm not sure the right way to do it for my car. Thanks again.

[@L2SFBC]

Not on the list, but owner's manual is always the best reference. It's more and more complex/dangerous to the car with modern vehicles.

[@SirDadbod]

I think the diameter of the block during the water test played a role in it rotating faster than the ring. Think of it this way... When you do pull-ups on a bar for exercise, it's easier to get a grip on the bar when the bar is thinner and when the bar is thicker, requires more grip strength. Likewise with the water test, the rope has a sharper angle of return to the load because of a shorter sharp return around a smaller diameter ring.

[@L2SFBC]

Agreed

[@maxgood42]

I would really LOVE to see a video about the wear on soft shakles !

[@L2SFBC]

Will be commenting on that in due course...

[@jimbill6205]

Great job, thanks! My takeaway is use blocks for frequent service or when weight/bulk isn't a concern, rings are fine for recreational use and shaving some weight rom your kit, and use a bow shackle if you have no other choice. Now I'm wondering if steel braid or synthetic cable makes any difference....

[@L2SFBC]

Agreed, and I doubt it would make enough of a difference to show up reliably on tests. But I may run the test in future.

[@jimbill6205]

@@L2SFBCp Agreed, but the proof would be in the numbers. Thanks again for the scientific approach.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes there may be a surprise in the results never know till we try!

[@MutsFire]

As usual ended up looking thru the whole video 🧐😃

[@L2SFBC]

Good!

[@johnfitzgerald5158]

This is great material Robert. I would be interested in seeing cable run through the snatch blocks vs synthetic rope. Also, the old beat up pully being most efficient begs the question if they have a break in period. Perhaps it ran smoother because it was used more and is past a potential break in period.

[@L2SFBC]

You mean wire rope? Interesting point. Suspect that would be harder to bend and require more winch load but am not sure I could measure accurately enough. The ARB block has been used enough to break in as well...I do not have a good explanation other than maybe sheave radius.

[@johnfitzgerald5158]

@@L2SFBC yes, wire rope / steel cable. It would be an interesting comparison the way you are tracking the data through the pull. There remains some debate between the 2 types of rope. I continue to use steel because where I off-road often has a lot of jagged rocks and in the winter concerns over a wet synth rope freezing on the spool. I would suspect the loading and unloading through the total pull might look different due to less stretching of the steel cable. Yes, I could see the potential more energy needed related to the steel confirming to the snatch block.

[@L2SFBC]

Agreed would be interesting but due to so few using wire this would be a long way down the list. But a good reminder there are always pros and cons.

[@cannonroberts5129]

Nice thank you.

[@hoggif]

That was interesting! Same phenomena but so much less losses with slippy dyneema than something like static rope that can have 50% efficiency when using a normal carabiner as a pulley and 10% loss being typical with good pulleys like used in climbing/rope access or rescue (figures from another video that had measurements for some perticular gear). Understanding those can be good in case you have to use multiple pulleys. Use the best was in the beginning and not so good ones later on closer to fixed end. Another interesting one to measure would be a 3:1 or 4:1 with two rings: you can route the rope first normally and through the middle hole the second time (as long as there is room not to rub the soft shackle at the other end of same hole).

[@L2SFBC]

good post! yes you can but I'd be cautious re bend radius.

[@hoggif]

@@L2SFBC With very slim rings it would be an issue but most are something like an inch wide that is already multiple time something like 8mm rope. Much more than a typical shackle. I wish I had a load cell for testing stuff like that myself but they are so expensive!

[@mattsstuff1268]

Excellent video with good engineering principles exhibited in the testing. Answered exactly the question I have been wondering - does the added friction of the snatch ring noticeably reduce efficiency? Great job, Robert!

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@fredio54]

With the water test the loads are very low and the friction would NOT generate heat in the rope - heat in the rope will INCREASE the friction as the plastic becomes stickier/gooier - which is not happening in the water test, whereas the blocks have "stiction" - ie, static friction, a release force, which peaks, and then drops once moving, hence the reversal in roles.

[@L2SFBC]

excellent point!

[@mastergreene22]

Brilliant video. Looking at the variety of blocks and rings do you think the diameter of the rings/blocks would have an effect on the efficiency? I really enjoy learning from your videos.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, absolutely...but more so on the wear on the rope. However, I don't think it's a massive difference.

[@mikedsobe]

Love it good job do more demonstration how to do recovery and what it best practice

[@buckstarchaser2376]

It seems like the natural result is to put a bearing in the middle of those donut things, and a curved insert in that, to produce a compact, low-wear tool. That would certainly tighten profit margins though, so good luck finding one.

[@L2SFBC]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHSwe6mhbrFkqKc

[@buckstarchaser2376]

@@L2SFBC Yeah, there we go. I like that one, but I suddenly realize that one of those well-developed bearing-rings for the price of 4 of the bearingless ones, for the sake of prolonging the life of my low-grade (cheap) lines, is not very rational. Thanks for the reality check on my "bright ideas".

[@LetsDoThis321]

Thanks so much for the efficiency information. I was wondering how much loss my triple line pully with snatch blocks had for loss. Looks like about 15% on a 3 to 1 setup with snatch blocks.

[@L2SFBC]

I shall be testing multiples...

[@LetsDoThis321]

@@L2SFBC Oh, thanks so much! if you have time check out my pull of a 25,000 pound container with a 12k winch. seemed to work ok. I did have trouble with a good anchor point. One question I had that I could not find was how to determine how much force it takes to drag something that has a known weight?

[@L2SFBC]

Depends on the coefficient of friction. Could be maybe almost the weight of the object.

[@derekmikolaj5362]

Would love to know more about the "X" thingy for shortening the extension rope Please and where did you get it !!!

[@L2SFBC]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqWcZGBubsuNb6M

[@ryank5373]

The biggest issue that I am hearing about with the pulley blocks is that when the rope goes slack, it is quite easy for the line to jump out of the channel. Then when the person goes to winch, the line pulls tight against the soft shackle and cuts through the soft shackle. F55 has the best solution so far, but it still allows the line to fall out too easily. If someone is going to go the pulley route, make sure you have more than 1 soft shackle that is rated for use with the pulley. I will keep my ARB pulley block. It weighs a bit more, but I don't need to worry about the line falling out.

[@L2SFBC]

I rigged many, many times with rings and not once did any fall out. This problem is overstated.

[@timlong1462]

@@L2SFBCI think the problem is mainly with pulls that are redirects on an obtuse angle. A 180° or acute angle pull is the best case scenario for rope retention and why you haven't seen the issue.

[@TreeMuggs_PatrickM]

Hi Robert, thanks for this video. I'm looking at using snatch rings in the Arb industry for mechanical advantage hauling systems and these tests are extremely helpful. Do you have these test results available on your website? I would like to refer to these result charts in an upcoming video of mine if that is ok. Thanks for your help, greetings from Canada. - Patrick

[@L2SFBC]

Hi EC, no I don't have any data available on the website but I am willing to share if you think it'd be helpful. What you saw was a summary. Yes you can use the data and results provided my channel is linked/credited. All for cross-industry collabs!

[@yarongolan3560]

Thank you for the efforts and the educative videos. I really like them and enjoy watching them several times. I do think, however, that in this particular video, you didn't pay enough attention to the diameter of the different rings and hence the efficiency calculation got slightly diverted.

[@L2SFBC]

How so?

[@rayg3074]

good work

[@nealesmith1873]

Very interesting video!

[@7kyro]

You have no idea how much I want one of those load cells. Very high quality content once again. I do wonder though if the differences in friction would be substantial if you were trying to recover a 5kg UNIMOG with a typical 5:1 mechanical advantage. Also, could snatch rings be viable at high speeds without burning the soft shackles? Some people use those elastic bungee straps and I wonder, especially in the case of a heavy vehicle being recovered, would it damage the soft shackle further? It always seems like the heavy vehicles need more speed to be pulled out. But, only winches are absent from the equation.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes speed would increase heat. However in recreational winching you typically winch for 30 seconds max, then rest, and move the vehicle only a few metres. So the heat buildup is not significant.

[@robbevington1754]

good real world work

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, please share :-)