Which MMO Should You Play? | WoW vs FFXIV

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In today's video I discuss whether you should play World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XIV Online, after playing both concurrently for a month.
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#nubkeks #wow #worldofwarcraft #shadowlands #finalfantasy #ffxiv

[@nubkeks]

The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/nubkeks07211

[@askaflamininja]

You know, I do think FFXIV serves both it's casual and it's hardcore communities better than WoW does for either. It seems to me that Blizzard seem to want to merge their two audiences too much. They put in convoluted power systems to try to slow down the hardcore so they can't get too far ahead, and then add a catch up system a few months later to try to close any gap that managed to form in spite of those systems. At the same time, the concentration on those systems takes resources away from their ability to add a breadth of casual world content which is the thing that would ACTUALLY make casual players happy. Meanwhile over in 14 the hardcore raiders are mostly happy, at least WAY more happy than the equivalent crowd in WoW, and the casual players all love it because they don't feel like they are being funnelled into hardcore content as there's so much more to do in the casual world. Bliz just needs to accept that there IS a skill gap, and ALLOW THAT TO FUCKING HAPPEN. STOP trying to force everyone together. Allow players to play differently, and be rewarded differently. People do actually like that.

[@testogel85]

Jazza, Shad's brother? lol

[@omkoinji3988]

Old content in FFXIV isn't only playable in LFR difficulty, but pretty much the same difficulty as when it was first released, thanks to the minimum ilvl and silence echo options. Only piece of content that's removed from the game is the original version of Diadem, and everything else is still relevant in some way. Keeping old content supported is the reason why I think a new player in FFXIV has a lot more interesting stuff to play than a new player in WoW. I would love to play every previous raid in WoW close to its original level of difficulty, even for zero rewards, but I just can't. That's the number one thing I wish Blizzard would change about the game.

[@blackhole5572]

Totally agree about the past raids. I missed a few expansions due to IRL duties, but now, when I returned, all the content has gone. Even worse - now I can just solo run every raid which breaks the whole drama - eh, you say Ragnaross is a threat, but I actually one-shoted it a minute ago :)

[@devak18]

wow feels so bad i don't even want to log

[@azzurrin889]

WoW seriously needs evergreen content. Right now, the content is instanced PvE or PvP, there is no open world content. It's super boing loggin in and just going from one instance to another. Blizzard needs to utilize the world they built WAY more.

[@Dathremar]

Seeing the open world in Guild wars 2 where they are like giant raid instances(events. mini bosses, end boss), blizzard could do A LOT here to improve the experience outside of instancing.

[@dmckenna]

this is a good video, but you should definitely revisit this topic after playing through Shadowbringers and maybe trying out Ultimate raids in FF.

[@c.chepre8452]

I agree, comparing Wows newest content to FF14s oldest is hardly fair.

[@askaflamininja]

You know, I do think FFXIV serves both it's casual and it's hardcore communities better than WoW does for either. It seems to me that Blizzard seem to want to merge their two audiences too much. They put in convoluted power systems to try to slow down the hardcore so they can't get too far ahead, and then add a catch up system a few months later to try to close any gap that managed to form in spite of those systems. At the same time, the concentration on those systems takes resources away from their ability to add a breadth of casual world content which is the thing that would ACTUALLY make casual players happy. Meanwhile over in 14 the hardcore raiders are mostly happy, at least WAY more happy than the equivalent crowd in WoW, and the casual players all love it because they don't feel like they are being funnelled into hardcore content as there's so much more to do in the casual world. Bliz just needs to accept that there IS a skill gap, and ALLOW THAT TO FUCKING HAPPEN. STOP trying to force everyone together. Allow players to play differently, and be rewarded differently. People do actually like that.

[@Yume03]

Yes 🙌! Thank you, as a casual player who loves housing, glam and only occasionally raids in normal mode for story, I commend this attitude. I don’t want to go to hard core content. I’m aware that my skill is not up to par with players who raid on savage difficulty in FFXIV and I’m 100% ok with it. Just let me hang out with my friends and do beast tribe quests as I’m cheering on my raid inclined FC mates 😅.

[@MichaelPate-michaelkpate]

Hopefully you get to try Bosjan Southern Front before Endwalker releases - It would be interesting to see how you think it compares to Corthia. And that is one of the biggest differences between the games - you don't skip all the post-expansion quests and immediately head off to the next set of zones. And if you do opt to skip something like a raid or alliance raid series you can always go back and unlock them and get a group - that shocked me when I realized what Labyrinth of the Ancients was.

[@Pmak]

So for the WoW comment about 9.1 being good. The problem is that is it 9 months worth of wait good? That's the problem I think, it's a good patch, but when you waited 9 months --- people expected more than what they actually got.

[@enragedsun1826]

That's the thing that gets me. When Nubkeks says in the video "oh the people spamming in guild chat about how bad the game, it's so fucking annoying". Stop being a Blizzard shill and start holding them accountable for their mistakes. "Oh I'm actually liking the dungeon quite a bit", okay well some people don't make a living off of this stuff and adding 1 dungeon and 1 raid just isn't enough for how long people paid their sub fees during the 8 months of no content. I don't want to run the new raid 10 times to try and get the right socket gear as well as the right shard only for them to completely invalidate the whole system in the next patch, I don't want to buy a book to understand what's going on in the game, I don't want to keep running the same dungeons for 2 years. This is supposed to be the best MMO on the market and at this point I feel like the only reason people stick around are because content creators make a living off of it and manipulate people into staying.

[@Ruprecttt]

I like the Skyrim vs. Witcher comparison. Thanks for the video!

[@arthas_stormr8ge877]

I just spent prob a hour and a half doing hardmode veteran dungeon content in ESO and it was challenging and very fun. There was a lot going on and dps checks. There was cc and interrupts that needed to be done. Then almost every dlc dungeon has achievements with cool rewards for doing them in HM and speed runs with no deaths... which is hard to do prob harder then doing mythic 15’s. The rewards are dye colors for dying your gear, titles, personalities that change your actions and idle stance and motifs drop that give you appearances for your transmog.

[@GustavoNoronha]

The LFR raid on Chromie time is something I want so much! I am not going anywhere for WoW because I'm here for the story, but I'm a filthy casual who never got to experience some of the raiding and being able to go over the story again in a way that makes more sense was the main thing that got me excited about Shadowlands. But it still doesn't let me experience the whole story because the raids are missing!

[@DisappointedBuddha]

Sorry, I read your comment wrong. But yeah, just bake in time walking permanently and include all the raids. Expansions shouldn't be reductive to the game

[@GodOfWar187]

You can do the older FFXIV raids on harder difficulties btw. Maybe you already knew that though. Regardless, I 100% agree that it's a missed opportunity for WoW to not incorporate a similar system. It would add so much more content to the game. Nowadays raids can't even stay relevant past the patch they're released in.

[@TheManOnTheStreetOMG]

The only WoW killer is WoW itself, it's gonna be a slow and painful death.They need to really get a grip before people move on to better games. You're 100% right about the veteran perspective when it comes to WoW, theres nothing refreshing or FUN to do right now. Outside of transmog, achievement and mount farming theres literally no recreational content in this game right now. They've just missed the mark completely post-Legion giving us all these hoops to jump through to optimise our characters. They put too much front loaded content into each patch to focus on its relevance instead of thinking about permanence and longevity. They literally scrap entire systems from tier to tier. Not to mention how alt unfriendly Shadowlands is and how much of a time sink it is just to maintain your character.

[@arthas_stormr8ge877]

It’s not catering to casuals FF14 has a philosophy that making a mmo is like the devs are the government and the players are the citizens, and if the citizens aren’t happy then they will move to Canada. That’s the actual philosophy FF14 used and look how it payed off. Blizzard used the philosophy of we are the we own Azeroth and your gonna deal with, and pay your taxes while we reign tyranny.

[@jeffreyarnold2626]

wow has it's focus on end game competitive play to the detriment of world content. every exp. relegates old content as irrelevant. even the lvlg has been changed to get the player fast tracked to new exp. content. there is little to do that feels engaging in the story. old content becomes a farm for mounts with %.01 droprates, and transmog. that gets boring fast.

[@yazan80]

Stopped and unsubbed wow for the simple reason that Im having alot of fun in FFXIV. Not because I have wow but because Im enjoying myself playing FF.

[@ovp66223]

I am a 98% of the time solo'er. I don't have the committed time windows of 2, 4 or 8 hours to do raids and dungeons (much time spent waiting to get it together in the first place. I found old EQ frustrating, taking hours to assemble a RAID group only it being time for me to go to bed. I feel like most RAIDers must not have had any real world job. Small rant aside, I'd like to be able to solo some things, even if it means they scale back treasure/exp from completing it. Make it very tough for a solo player, but doable and give some partial reward. Maybe I have to completed a dungeon 10 times to get this key item I was seeking? I dunno, I am very part time and I rarely master playing a MMORPG or RPG. I like to login, do a few quests but not always be locked out of "group" content because i don't have 4 or 8 hours of contiguous time to pay attention to the game. I have been reading FFXIV has some solo ability for these things, so maybe I'll give it a go. I just wish ALL games had some kind of solo option, even if it means I can't quite get the top items or maybe I can't quite reach the top level, at least not without a few required group/raid completions. I just don't want EVERYTHING of decent value, good weapons or armor or whatever, to be locked from my game. How about extremely RARE solo drop of a RAID item? Like maybe 0.001% or something? Make that item one level less than the RAID, maybe remove one characteristic or drop the damage given or taken 20 or 50%, but still have a nice item? Nothing better, to me, than be doing some regular quest and suddenly have a primo RARE/LEGENDARY/ELITE item drop. Diablo II did this, but usually when it dropped it was already laughably unusable (like 20 levels too low).

[@dhamp_]

"Korthia, the Rural Hamlet of Secrets" doesn't have the same ring to it.

[@densetsu7469]

So, obviously it's possible to play both and perhaps for a player like yourself the solution is to play both but if the question is which is better, or more to the point "Which MMO Should You Play?" then I think Matt and Bellular really hit the nail on the head with the implied answer to the question: If both of these games were launching for the first time this week their current states, which one do you think would end up performing better?

[@carthage10]

Play whatever you enjoy. No harm in enjoying whatever game makes you happy.

[@beansearch340]

You should check out Yoshi Ps response to the WoW hate

[@jackwire6109]

Darrowshire Vanilla WoW is releasing 30th July with patch progression, updated pvp system with no honor decay, no world buffs in raids, zero tolerance for botting and much more. 4000+ discord members and rising.

[@filips2146]

Problem is that classic is boring af. People are quitting wow classic cause of it being just that ”classic”.

[@MojiiOkay]

I think the most important thing that can be said is that if you play WoW, you have probably bounced off of a lot of MMO's. Those games that just don't have the right hooks. Well, with FFXIV's rise you now have two games with those hooks, you can get really stuck into and enjoy. Thick grats to everyone.

[@xd3m0nxx25]

Wow seems more raw imo

[@Rocman76]

The issues in wow isn't what the player base wants, the DEV's stopped listening to the player base many expansions ago. The issue is that outside the M+ and raid content wow is super boring. They haven't implemented a good idea in years. They have eroded daily content to pointless boring grinds or time gates and every expansion gets worse. systems replaced and rebuilt every 2 years and currencies added and added, they spend too much time on systems that have very little impact and very little on content and classes. they don't implement fun. something is lost in the design and build phase. they don't know what they are doing.

[@joreldecker1949]

RETENTION MECHANICS thats it, it doesn't feel like an mmo it feels like a mobile game that i have certain amount of "daily energy"

[@joeyl564]

WoW

[@Celliun1]

As a very long-time WoW player who recently tried out ESO, this is definitely the best take I've heard. I completely agree that Blizzard should embrace casual content again and ignore the "casuals are ruining the game" chest-beating.

[@Drogen0]

I’m not completely sure what your thesis was but I don’t think adding a variety of activities to a world is “appealing to casuals” it’s just building the world. I was a hardcore raider through TBC, took a break, came back in BFA, and still wanted all the same world-building things that FFXIV and XI had made. And two camps of people shouting can still have those valid points to sift through. You can think it’s an issue that some things are easier than they should be or to the point of not spending the effort (depending on what motivates you) as well as wanting MORE transmogs, class fantasy, and more in-depth crafting. I don’t even think WoW needs to mimic FFXIV but damn if they could knock a couple features out of the park and add them it would do so much. I thought that’s where they were going with WQ and thought they’d mimic GW2s open world model a bit. Obviously, play what you enjoy, I’m really loving red mage and all the single-player games I missed, but as someone who loves the Warcraft lore and abilities, I’ve gotten bored with the gameplay loop and weird mechanics. I want them to do better so I can come back to the world. Do a bunch of stuff when it’s not raid night or if I can’t raid due to time I can still go do something else enjoyable. This expansion and the story also don’t feel as big as the stakes implicate it should be.

[@GribGFX]

You sound slightly irish Never mind youre definitely Irish.

[@markup6394]

My biggest gripes with WoW is the story. It was the epic lore that got me hooked in the first place and what they did with it after Legion was almost painful. I'm one of those persons who read every quest, every speachbubble, reads every short on the webside, buys and reads all the books... The lore was pretty much my fuel to keep me going in this game since my office laptop wouldnt allow for much else. I started raiding in BfA, and though this expansion had some fun elements like the new questing zones, raiding took away a lot of my fun. I do not like timed content which is why m+ is the death of me, I'm no fan of RNG (getting the same bracers out of that weekly chest three times in a row are a killer for my enthusiasm to be sure...), and like I said, the story took a turn that made the game I fell in love with (you know what I mean...) unrecognizable. Add to that the endless grind: once you got it done, another patch drops and you can start again. Then Essences were added, I had to do PvP (which I hate from the bottom of my heart) to get one of my BiS. Corruptions were added which either made you a god or a weenie, depending on whether you sacrificed enough to RNGesus... and sometimes not even then. Its funny: when I was casual without a care in the world I had so much more fun than when I started raiding... and raids and dungeons are said to be the best part in this game. I cant agree... In FF14... I dont know... Maybe its the feeling of impact that you dont have in WoW: your character there is... yeah, nobody knows who or what you are, not even the devs seem know. You're either a grunt, a commander, a hero, or champion, but dont expect any NPC to recognize you when going into a new expansion (apparently, when you save Jaina in the Maw she later tells you she was saved by some Maw Walker or other, not even realising that it was you - how weird is that?). You can argue that its the community that matters in WoW, thats its completely irrelevant what this or that NPC has to "say". That gameplay is everything and that the lore is so random and fragmented, who gives a d***? Thats legit, but for me, its not enough. Plus, the community itself is not the best to put it kindly, so the argument that is matters falls flat...

[@masterpain7742]

U hate pvp the most fun aspect of the game go kill some ally's I. Darkshire or try to get gladiay but I'm sure that's way way to hard for u girl go play ff14 where u don't have to pvp it's way too much forj

[@masterpain7742]

I gueantee u when ur walking around in ur gladiator mount people r gonna know who u r but ur too bad at pvp

[@masterpain7742]

I hate pvp from the bottom of ur heart when wow I s a war game lmao go run away to ff14 land wheere nobody hurts each other

[@markup6394]

@@masterpain7742 You know, you could've made one single comment instead of three? Just saying, length isnt really limited. And I know I'm bad at PvP: it stands to reason you're not good at something if you dont like it. But that has little to do with WoW as a whole, after all I played and enjoyed it for 13 years - without engaging in PvP, believe it or not. It was when they pushed it into my face that I stopped liking it. If you like your little wargames, go ahead, just dont expect everybody else to like it - and dont expect people to play a game the way you want them to play it. In case you didnt know: we all pay to get something out of it, and heavens forbit, but its different for everybody.

[@masterpain7742]

@@markup6394 u quit wow before u got gladiator lmao loser

[@jon9725]

Played wow from vanilla up to legion. I am shocked that it’s still a sub to play game. The game is stale and by 2021 standards is not worth $15 a month. I stopped playing because it’s just the same game since 2004 with minor changes.

[@xd3m0nxx25]

Wow Tried ff too weeby

[@GreatGloves]

Greetings from Finland! I am old school FF fan, but online gaming is talking too much of my time.

[@Hey_Mister]

You know something is wrong with WoW when one of the best things that could had happened to the game was the removal of several years of content.

[@masterpain7742]

U know something is wrong with agame like ff14 when it doesn't have rated pvp brackets open world pvp faction wars raid pvp battlegrounds or any competitive tournaments because ff14 is only quests and dungeons lmao

[@Hey_Mister]

@@masterpain7742 And this is why nobody will ever sleep with you. :^)

[@sleepydruid100]

It is not that the casuals or the 15 are killing the game. The inherent competetiveness and fpcus on metrics in content where it is not needed are ruining the game. That paired with Blizzard supporting that behaviour and not working actively against toxicity (plus the lack of meaningful content, or at least something that feels meaningful) is what makes WoW such a bad experience in many aspects of the game. ^^" EDIT: Essentially you have to go all out in every content of the game or not bother at all. This is probably different if you have a guild, but i am sure that even in guilds this problem might arise)

[@enragedsun1826]

At this point the only thing keeping me even just watching WoW content is nostalgia. I don't think I could stomach actually playing the game anymore, especially with how limited I am with my availability to play. I'm not in school anymore, I can't just spend 12 hours playing video games, and I'm not spending what little game time I have left jumping through Blizzards time gate mechanics or stalling tactics to milk subs.

[@Celliun1]

You realise that "timegating" is entirely to keep people who can't play 12 hours a day from feeling hopelessly behind?

[@enragedsun1826]

@@Celliun1 Well then they're failing at that too, because I can't play that much and WoW made me feel so behind that I quit the game.

[@TrueMokael]

Honestly I don't care who they tailor to. But this constant time gating and new AP system every patch is getting tiresome.

[@uservenny84]

Not even Blizzard wants to play WoW at this rate.

[@strzap7142]

Why play WoW or FFXIV when I can just play F2P Runescape

[@zpokie123]

9.1 ruined thorghast. The score system is cou ter intuitive to the gameplay. I want to rush it and skip all powers because i can still kill bosses. But now that doesnt give enough score to give me next level and the score is not shown ingane with what you have to do. No plzz just remove thorghast. Its the worst system they have ever made.

[@brettartie]

easy answer, play both

[@enragedsun1826]

Lots of people can't afford $30+ a month to play two MMOs. Easy answer is to just play what you like.

[@brettartie]

@@enragedsun1826 you can still play both, but not simultaneously, play wow until you hit a point where you're good, then swap. not a big deal.. besides ffxiv is free until 60 so why not play both until that point

[@HELL_HOUND13]

ESO enough said …

[@filips2146]

Its really bad tho, its like a scuffed version of ffxiv

[@Exequetor]

Last!

[@kapitan19969838]

FF will die and every single quitter will come back to WoW. You'll see

[@masterpain7742]

True wow is awesome I just started dplayign again u r literally on the afterlife like what game has ever made content in the afterlife

[@NBCatch22]

First !!

[@TM_WariussW]

World of Warcraft is 100% the best MMORPG Ever, Final Fantasy is really bad game, even Guild Wars 2 is much better then Final Fantasy! :D

[@FrenchFryKayak]

i play neither, id rather play wow when it was good, and that is a possibility. so bye bye blizzard and who cares about asmongold...

[@deaczorz]

open world and story driven content is garbage. Gets old so fast.

[@CaptainVin]

New world

[@ragingpower80]

Final fantasy is sooo good, WoW is garbage now

[@TM_WariussW]

Anime kid 😂