Which Position Can White Win? 🤔

Would you rather have white in the first position or the 2nd position?
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[@BubblefishOfTrem]

Interesting. So in a sense, the pawns in the first position cannot be stopped by the rook. But black can force white to run endlessly so white never has time to push the pawns. That's instructive - just don't play the game you're losing. Force white to play something else!

[@geliscon]

Yes, I think the idea for black is to just keep chasing the white king around until the 50 move rule comes into effect to force a draw. I don’t think the idea is to force white into making a losing move though

[@flawless6631]

199 likes ? Lemme fix that

[@box4467]

Thanks I was blind and couldnt watch the video

[@samuelmendlowitz7276]

The only thing more complicated than a board with all the pieces is a board with nearly none

[@ThcPatient]

Right? This channel shows a lot of crazy positions, but this relatively simple-looking one is the one that broke my mind.

[@luqmaanhay4957]

@@ThcPatient okay

[@j.thomas1420]

Juste as a side note at the position in 14:43 , if ...Kd1 then white should answer with Dd3! and so on until grabbing with the King these pawns.

[@rizdos6437]

*Kd3

[@j.thomas1420]

@@rizdos6437 oh my bad... xD

[@kisslas]

So what if ... Kd1 Kd3 Kc1? That's actually a rather interesting line, quite as interesting in fact as the ones covered. Yes the white king can keep moving towards the pawns and eventually win them, but in a fairly non-obvious manner.

[@j.thomas1420]

@@kisslas then you obviously don't repeat the position. You play Ke3 and grab these pawns. Black already can't afford to push his g pawn, too close from White King, and if they push the h pawn, there is that little Ra1+.

[@сырпошехонский]

@@kisslas Then Ke3, of course. If g2 then Kf2, if h2 then Ra1+ and Rh1, stopping black pawns in both cases. Second line is a reason why only Ke3 wins and not Ke2

[@manuelkoch375]

love these vids. if only i could remember all of it while i'm playing with a minute left on the colck :)

[@cipherxen2]

You will, after practicing a lot

[@BillGraper]

I hate playing timed games. It takes away the strategic factor, where you can think about your next important move. I'm always getting after a friend of mine who always plays timed games, and it comes down to someone winning on time. He doesn't listen. If you're worried about someone not completing the game, then maybe do 30 minute games, or something that won't affect your thinking. Maybe even the games that add a few seconds after each move.

[@zakl940]

@@BillGraper even classical is timed, and playing low time control doesn’t take away strategy entirely, at least from a certain level. You still have to think about moves and understand the position, just faster. I have lots of fun playing one minute bullet, just as I do playing 4 hour classical games.

[@Shadow-v6k]

Don't remove the l

[@snomcultist189]

Nice colck

[@user-iu1xg6jv6e]

I guessed it right! If I played black, I would lose both! Also, I would still lose even if I played white!

[@mpeterll]

Position 2 may be best with GM-level play, but what about in a game between two 1500-rated players? Surely position 1 is better in that case.

[@troit1550]

i wouldnt say a 1500 would miss either thing in a classical OTB tourney. im 1800 n my first instincts was right on the money for position one though position 2 took a good 4 minutes of calculation

[@modric8212]

Thank you! I was looking for this.

[@modric8212]

@@troit1550 no trust me, 1500 rated players would not think that far ahead as to keep checking whites king because they know those two pawns could not be stopped, and that one wrong move and white would have the queen, if not two.

[@francogaray3273]

As a 1500 myself. I did undertand the second one was rigth. But did not find the endless check on 1

[@andreasedvinsson7410]

i would take position 2 anyday, the game is already won, black can't do anything

[@droidgracie4121]

14:43 It wasn’t mentioned that black’s other option of Kd1 will also not work. White will move Ke1 and becomes close enough to the G pawn.

[@stanley1233]

if black goes Ke1 white will go Ke3 and follow the king. There will always be a checkmating threat so black has no time to push his pawns.

[@zoltanbenedek1362]

Good point, but 100. Ra2 Kd1 101. Kd3 Kc1 102. Ke3 g2 103 Ra1+ Kb2 104. Rg1 Ka3 105. Kf3 h2 ... stalemate

[@zoltanbenedek1362]

Sorry, you are right. 100. Ra2 Kd1 101. Kd3 Kc1 102. Ke3 g2 103. Kf2 ... 1-0

[@toastbrot97]

Before watching the video: I do think the first position is better for white. It looks like after b6 that the promotion is unstoppable. Brining the king is too slow for black and sacking the rook for a potential draw also doesn't seem to work.

[@iamaghost6859]

Lol no! The white king is cut off The black king just goes and gobbles up Or forces a draw

[@toastbrot97]

@@ChaosLord5129 yea no shit, i watched the video myself xD

[@toastbrot97]

@@ChaosLord5129 I'm not even 1000 all i need to do is not to blunder my queen in the fist 10 moves and i'm usually good

[@toastbrot97]

@@ChaosLord5129 yes i am. Good observation skills lol

[@wizardcow1249]

@@ChaosLord5129 dog lol either yoiu are tolling and took it a few messages to far in which case chill or you just need to realize 90% of "chess players" are for fun players below 1000 and don't care to go competitive. Also watching and learning from videos like this is how newer players will develop so instead of flaming them in the comments just let them be, yeah?

[@5kgBirnen]

that pin on the pawn was truly amazing

[@PhO3NiX96]

King activity is so important at late game, this video really shows how both kings were positioned at this moment and having your king in center ready to move is very helpful

[@danieljohnsonghanta1986]

3:50 why cannot rook go to b2 and check the white king, then take the first pawn and then go back of the second one next??

[@potatoheadpokemario1931]

the left one looks better because you can queen immediately and black can't give a check on their next turn, but being a chess vibe video the obvious solution is going to be wrong so I'll pick the right one

[@joshuawilliams5348]

What if black plays Kd1 at 14:42? It doesn't seem like you covered that. Is it Kd3, then after black's Kc1 (trying to repeat) Ke3? It looks like maybe the white king is then close enough to stop the pawns with help from the rook, but tricky enough that it would be nice if you covered it.

[@srenkristiansen2516]

You are correct in your calculation, sir

[@Brotato_Potato]

CHESS VIBES! 14:43 If black plays king to D1 instead of B1, shouldn't he win? (In position 2) The black king can easily escape the rook because it's not locked by the white king, and then he can go defend his pawns and promote to em to queen.

[@FuturePast2019]

White queen would go to D3 close enough to get the pawns... So BK goes to C1 and WK E3

[@formerlyknownaseasrob]

Start of vid: on the left side I think there’s more winning chances for white because the pawns become connected and the b pawn looks like it has an easy path to promotion, in my 1100-1150 rated view. It looks like you can go: b6 Kc5 b7 and no matter what you promote the next move (best black can do is probably take the a pawn but queen vs rook is winning for the side with the queen with best play) Edit, after: wow, that was very interesting. At my level the 2 pawns probably win the majority of the time with reasonable play for that level but board geometry is amazing sometimes. Also these positions show how important king positioning/endgame activity is, looking back that’s a big part of why the positions are what they are

[@krot464]

This is my absolute favourite chess channel with these puzzles and positions, really amazing, keep going, so much fun!

[@roijoleil268]

good to know that im apparently so bad in chess and chess principles that my immediat thought was "2nd position obviously.. the black king is on an edge and can never leave"

[@generalginyu8594]

At 14:43, how does white win if they respond to Ra2 with ... Kd1, Kd3 Kc1?

[@zahinal-aziz8385]

I love these educational vids! Keep up the good work Nelson. And make this a series like the weekly quiz.

[@troit1550]

my first instinct is that position 1 is a absolute draw due to ladder mates and the 2nd position im having trouble figuring out how to buy time for white but its definitely there.

[@ZdenekMicke69]

1. Rd2+ Kb1 2. Kc3 Kc1 3. Ra2 Kd1 4. Kd3 Kc1 5. Ke3 Kb1 6. Re2 h2 7. Re1+ Kc2 8. Rh1 Kb3 9. Kf3 g2 10. Kxg2 Kc3 11. Rxh2

[@kepler_drew853]

I'd prefer position 1 still. I'm unlikely to galaxy brain my way through position 2, even after watching the video, and my opponent is unlikely to galaxy brain they're way into a draw on 1.

[@Karl-nj4tb]

Nelson, from 14:43 you only mentioned what White can do if Black moves the king to B1. But what if Black moves to D1? I cannot find any possible way in which White can then win. Is it possible you can make a video on that?

[@rizdos6437]

*1.Kd1 Kd3 2.Ke1 Ke3 and the white king will grab the pawns. *1.Kd1 Kd3 2.Kc1 Ke3 and white will be closer to the pawns so if 3.h2 4.Ra1 forcing the king to the second rank (Kc2 or Kb2) then 5.Rh1 and as explained earlier in the vid black can't push g2 because of 6.Rxh2 and the g pawn gets pinned can't move the h pawn and no matter where the king goes white will just play 6.Kf3 and take the pawns. if black plays 3.g2 4.Kf2 and black gets in zugzwang Kb1 5.Ra3 and next you take the pawns. Last thing black could try is 3.Kb1 but then Re2 and same problem.

[@Lord7979]

Man I looked at the first postion and got to king to b1 after black threatens checkmate and I thought that had to surely just be winning so I didn't bother to look at the other one, but what a cool resource to use our newfound positioning of the king to disallow king movement and threaten the repetition

[@chrisinselwyn]

This was great, I picked 2 because I thought I could get check mate but it was much trickier than I first thought

[@enderger5308]

12:50 - finally, our brain’s strange thought patterns correctly identified a move.

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

Before vid: Left side: after white pushes pawn to protect, what prevents black from threatening checkmate by moving king into opposition? White can promote one pawn but the other hasn’t had time to move to rank 7, so the rook can capture and threaten mate again… Right side: threaten opposition into win, black is too slow.

[@your_average_joe5781]

This was way over my head but you explained it all in the best way possible 👍

[@pepefrogic3034]

Excellent endgame series, very original and instructive!

[@bedrock30_40]

My original solution for the second board was Rook to a5, and then King to b4, but now I realize that the king could escape by going to b1

[@xtentasticx]

14:42 you completely forgot to cover where the king moves right instead of left

[@RGC_animation]

I would still play 1 because it takes way less thinking to win on that one than to win on position 2, and if the oponent was not that good, I would probably win on position 1.

[@FloydMaxwell]

Very interesting. Lots to learn. Thank you for your usual thorough explanation.

[@colonalruffs2015]

Wow....i was so confused when you said for the first one the second position was a win...

[@VincentPeer]

Wooooo! Great lesson today! Thanx!

[@gohjianlin6965]

14:46 but what if black moves towards their pawn?

[@jamesknapp64]

On both I got to the "only 1 move" needed and didnt find it. Good Quality channel videos Ive watched so far

[@spreatexs8725]

14:44 what happens with King goes to d1?

[@RoManHD-yt8mm]

14:43 Why black king would'nt move c1-d1, while the rock on a2? It ruins all the theory.

[@realteamwall]

0:28 im a 750 and both positions look like theyre winning for white but i think black has more tricks in the first one so i choose the second one

[@FuturePast2019]

14:43 If black plays D4 in stead then white can follow and get too close to the pawns and win.

[@poisondartfrogplayz251]

I am a 500, and I got most of these moves. NOT saying they are easy, but I am pretty good at these endgames.

[@ysamysza4563]

I chose both options, so I was 50% right & 50% wrong.

[@samuelding7854]

Bruh

[@omg4life234]

Before watching the video: I thought white can win in both positions. The second position isn’t as difficult as it looks (more of an endgame study) since the poor position of Black’s king is key. However, for the first position, I thought White was just winning after you stop checkmate with Kb1. It’s quite a big illusion because it surely looked like Black’s idea is too slow, but White just never has time to promote safely.

[@TheScarletFoxReal]

4:27 I think checkmate might be possible with both games, b6 if RxA6 then its a win, if RB4 then its also a win after KA2 ( the only way for black to win is if he draws with constant checks

[@vnkhuong1567]

14:33 How about king e1 instead?

[@gkristof6504]

Good video! You should make a video where you teach us how to play hypermodern openings! The folk would love it!

[@violetasuklevska9074]

There might be a study-like win in the second position: Rd2+ (Ka3 Rd3+ winning all the pawns, and Ka1 Kb3 with unstoppable mate) so Kb1 Kc3, if h2 (or g2) Rd1+ Ka2 Rg1 and it's zugzwang Ka3 Ra1# (h2 Rxg2+) so Kc1 Ra2, if Kb1 Re2 and I've transfered the rook one file over and this time Kc1 is met with Re1#, you must play Kd1, but simply Kd3 and you either let my king take all your pawns by going Ke1 Ke3 or you go Kc1, but Ke3 anyway (g2 Kf2) h2 Ra1+ Kb2 Rh1 g2 Rxh2 and your pawn is pinned. Hope I'm right in picking this one

[@ZdenekMicke69]

1. Rd2+ Kb1 2. Kc3 Kc1 3. Ra2 Kd1 4. Kd3 Kc1 5. Ke3 Kb1 6. Re2 h2 7. Re1+ Kc2 8. Rh1 Kb3 9. Kf3 g2 10. Kxg2 Kc3 11. Rxh2

[@bass2564]

14:44 feels like would be very important to at least mention the continuation if black plays Kd1 instead of Kb1.

[@FuturePast2019]

Yes, then white can follow and get too close to the pawns and win.

[@nino4242]

I took the dumb luck route of thinking the back pawns were going the other way, so thinking the rook could easily beat them

[@Bushchannel]

I think the exception to the rule exists here because in both positions the 2 pawns are on the side of the board.

[@Kambyday]

These chess puzzles teach us about chess but they heavily imply that there is always a way to win but it isn't true for the other person in the same game

[@benjaminknode]

After rook a2, what happens if instead of attacking the rook, the king moves to d2, does it just end with white's king gobbling the pawns, or what. Can't black kinda end up forcing a draw by keeping white's king away from the pawns and staying out of mate.

[@eckenjunge]

Exactly what I thought at first. you just follow the black king to his pawns, keeping opposition. This always threatens mate, so he cannot push the pawns. If he just keeps walking to the kingside (efgh) white picks up the pawns with the king. As soon as he tries to move towards the rook again you have the same maneuver as before with Zugzwang(, OR if you dont want to be so fancy you can just grab the pawns with the now close enough king - but this will not work in every variation!).....for example 1..... Kd1 2. Kd3 Kc1 3. Ke3! h2 4. Ra1+ forcing the King to the second rank and Rh1 1-0 OR (3....Kb1 4. Re2 h2 5.Re1 and now same old OR the King can even go for some pawns!)

[@benjaminknode]

@@eckenjunge but there's no mate threat in that situation, so there's no need to push the pawn, and you can keep moving the king....as long as black's king stays away from b1, they can stay safe and force draw by repitition, or end up able to push the pawns safely right? White's king is forced to follow to threaten check mate

[@benjaminknode]

@@eckenjunge for example after kd1 kd3 if kc1 ke3 kb1 re2 kc1 kf3 g2 re1 kd2 rook blockade leads to king just going to 3rd row and isnt under mate threat no?

[@yessir7431]

@@benjaminknode after g2 you go kg3 if he promote you just pin and win the pawn if he attacks your rock you just go ra2and same idea if he promote you check and win the pawn

[@benjaminknode]

@@yessir7431 if kg3, black gets a queen with check and that doesn't work, more realistically, after kd2, rg1 leads to having to go kd3 to not have fork threat with check, then kg3 and no matter what white king eats the pawns, then it's rook end game. I didn't want to work it all out myself, but now that I have, I wish it was shown more, because i find that study fairly interesting. you can also do kf2 instead of re1 and that leads to kd1 re3 and king and rook gobble pawns with again king and rook vs king endgame.

[@Lordmewtwo151]

10:30-10:40 What about Kc3? Then after black pushes one of the pawns, Ra5 check? Or would that lead to a draw/loss after Kb1?

[@apersonwhodidstuff]

I was thinking Kc3, g2, Kc2, promotion to queen, Ra5#

[@Lordmewtwo151]

@@apersonwhodidstuff On the immediate surface, that looks promising, *but* doing that would be a blunder for black. After Kc2, nothing is stopping black from going Ka3. Now when you play Ra5+, black will play Kb4, which not only is the only possible move, but it is also a good move because after that, there is no stopping promotion. With the white king on c3 instead of c2, if black does go Ka3, black blunders Ra5# just like your line but for a different reason.

[@apersonwhodidstuff]

Yeah

[@3trilogy]

This is terrific! Definitely worth watching again and thinking over.

[@atlick1647]

14:43 how about kd1?

[@usmc72409]

Your channel is extremely helpful. Im relatively new to chess and find your channel is better than some other channels with more subs. I know u will keep growing. Very good teacher! I will be here often. Making it interactive is so much fun i literally use your videos while working out to keep me distracted and found i love chess bc i work out 6 days a week now and look forward to it bc of my enthusiasm for chess!

[@The-Anathema]

Board one is either a perpetual 0.0 advantage resulting in draw by repetition. Second board should be M24, assuming perfect play. Any mistake on the opponents side reduces it drastically.

[@Notmonkevrandtiktok]

first position cause in the second one they will get a queen no matter what. but in the first position, if its you're turn first you can win, if you make the moves correctly.

[@RuiPlayz123100]

6:39 fun fact if the b7 pawn was gone white could win by playing a8=Q and it stops the mate cuz it controls the h1 square

[@carlnelson4164]

Hah, I guessed right simply on the idea that position 2 allows you to put black in check while position 1 doesn't.

[@cipherxen2]

I like these kind of videos. Very instructive. Better than agad's flat game analysis.

[@Amoeby]

Man, I solved the second position but the first one is kinda insane. It is very hard to see the defense for black right from the start.

[@swaritwastaken]

7:51, if white move to any of those corners wont Kf2 win for black? Or does pawn promotion save the day?

[@sandralavegana9773]

Kh1 kf2 b8queen Rh4+ Qh2+ peaces off the board and white Wins

[@keymasta3260]

To be precise in position 2 it is mate in 25 moves. Black capture last white pawn in 11th move and we have position K and R against K and mate in 14

[@Vearru]

My initial instinct was that the left would be correct but I then started analyzing the right and felt like it was actually pretty likely that white could win, I could see pretty deep into the line, but I couldn’t figure out how to actually win, so I chose left despite what I was thinking.

[@andreasedvinsson7410]

right is much better, move rock to b line and then just move yourking (on the c line) untill the kings are face to face so to speak and move rock to a line and mate

[@Phantom-309]

End games being the cheat codes of chess. Love the series.

[@fts_02]

Hey Nelson love the channel. Would love it if you make a new rating climb series like you have done before.

[@therealmagmalord3479]

I managed to find pretty much everything but rook a2, i said re2, at my rating i dont think it would matter as 800's normally resign or just lose by abandonment.

[@batavuskoga]

I think winning with position 2 only works with advanced players, I think. In my opinion the majority of players will win with position 1 and lose with position 2 when playing with white. But your puzzles are really educational, for all kind of players, from beginner to advanced

[@googelism]

Beginner: Position 2 seems better. Intermediate: Position 1 seems better. Advanced: Position 2 is better.

[@gamingx3552]

I really love contents like this, more pls... Thanks

[@Trikedin]

Question what if b 7 is never played because maybe in future a8= queen would be check at a positions where King is on g3?

[@fernando47180]

The thumbnail: "THIS OR THIS" Me, an intellectual: "THIS THIS OR"

[@alexanderxyz6146]

wow quite hard well done video also feedback: I personally would have wished if you didn't tell the answer (which wins) as early but after getting more into it, sort of more hints. Anyways really great video afterall, great little hints and allowing us to pause and calculate. And who cares if endgame studies aren't as useful and adress rare cases, it's quite fun while still useful.

[@blacklight683]

0:20 2nd it took me 5-7s to figure how to kill white in the 1st one Edit:I didn't know how to win in the 2nd I just knew you couldn't win the 1st

[@grizzlyjp]

Thank you so much Nelson. This was really good. I watched this twice in a row (and I've hit the "Like" button). However I have a question to see if Black can play for a draw in Position 2 where after White plays Ra2 (14:41), Black plays Kd1 (instead of playing Black Kb1) and plays for a draw by a repeat of Black Kc1 and then back to Kd1 (if White moves the White Kd3 in opposition to the Black King threatening checkmate with White Ra1). Am I missing something White can do to play for the win if Black plays Kd1?

[@MG-bd8kc]

After 1. Kd1 Kd3 there is 2.Kc1, and white instead of repeating can go 2. ... Ke3 to go for pawns. If black pushes pawn then Ra1 check and then rook goes in front of pawn If black goes Kb1 then Re2, and again when pawn pushes then Re1 check and go in front of pawn. If Kc1 then king simply goes for pawns

[@CrisJfG]

@@MG-bd8kc Mostly correct, but if it's the g pawn that's moving you need Kf2 instead of moving the rook infront of the pawn, or else the black king moves to the third row and black plays h2.

[@rbanerjee605]

@@CrisJfG you mean f3?

[@CrisJfG]

@@rbanerjee605 No, the sequence I'm thinking of is 1. Ke3 g2 2. Kf2 (because e. g 2. Ra1+ Kb2 3. Rg1 Kb3 4. Kf2 h2 is a draw)

[@MrNovaTVGeo]

How do u study things like that? This is cool

[@tottenvillelegend826]

Love these chess puzzles!! ❤❤

[@enkor9591]

On the intermediate level almost no one would find those solutions

[@lordharshgamer6569]

I won and lost both ... I chose the second one thinking the pawns go opposite way . I was correct in answer but wrong in thinking..

[@oracle372]

I guessed position 2 because if white just pushes pawns, then it's mate in 2.

[@gradysanders7560]

Is it me that white was supposed to move first in the first puzzle, your position for analysis seems to from a black moves first

[@dmitripogosian5084]

You did not show how Kd1 works out after Ra2

[@deyesed]

A centralized king is a big advantage.

[@geraldedang958]

In position 2..if ra2 what if black king go to kd1..i think position 2 is also a draw

[@Green24152]

Before even watching: The one where White has the pawns.

[@nilocabrera1568]

Such puzzles are so amazing !!!!

[@HarryLewinASR]

Excellent. Really enjoyed this lesson.

[@arneshpal7702]

Can u explain 3:32

[@tottenvillelegend826]

At 1:56 you could have said “not applicable” instead.

[@Ea-nāsircopper]

I got the question right but I didn’t see the branch of ideas after king to b1 as I didn’t think about to nor did I even look at the first one lol

[@dintelignt]

I guessed all the right moves but didn't know the why they were right, they just looked right to me.

[@insylem]

I picked position 1 because position 2 looked better and I over thought the psychology of the question

[@pikkepokkel3122]

In position 1, rook a4 would also work would it not?

[@briceyokem9236]

How gets to move first?

[@chessandmusicwithoskiez6241]

At the end, what if Kd1? If Kd3 Kc1 Ke3 h2 I don’t see anything.

[@luckyknight4818]

I think the right position because u can mat in 2 moves while the other one u get mat in 2 moves

[@butterpecan077]

i say image 1 since white has 2 pawns about to promote not high elo though.

[@jamesanthon4749]

Position 2,is easy,king go down,black pushed his pawn,king go down,black promote to queen,then rook moves to check the king then it's a checkmate in two moves.

[@saimon174666]

So enjoyable endgame study