Which S2000 is Better? Stock AP1 vs AP2 (POV Comparison)

[@apolloandratti7922]

This is why after having owned a number of S2000s--both AP1 and AP2, I keep coming back to a stock AP1. It is the most fun and engaging driving experience---and the best value. It is a true representation of the driving experience Shigeru Uehara intended to deliver. The CR had AP1 elements to it (e.g., steering ratio, lightness etc). The most visceral S2000 I have driven is a stock CR, then the AP1.

[@navihawk1]

Having owned both and driven them back to back on many occasions I prefer the ap2. More grip, more torque. Even though its only 6 ft lbs of torque you feel it! Sold the ap1 and kept the ap2 forever

[@Strugglin]

😭

[@Diablo99V]

Yeah the AP2 is just more refined and better behaved.

[@bobjohnson6131]

I just love the 9k rpm though. It's addicting

[@YNorth]

@@bobjohnson6131 cant you just get a tune on the ap2 and get around 8500? i heard that was a thing but i dont know much about the s2k

[@fabianl.2553]

​@@YNorthI believe 8500-8600 rpm is where the ap2 has the same piston speed as the ap1. But yeah, that's where most ecu reflashes put the rev limit.

[@slimjim77M]

Honda had to water the car down with the AP2 model. Most Americans just don't appreciate the finer nuances of a momentum car with 50/50 distribution. Both are good cars, no question, but I'm taking my AP1 to the grave. Good review.

[@hogan247]

For daily driving both are literally about the same. People acting like it’s a huge difference. I’ve driven both and own an AP2. Unless your flying around a corner you won’t see the difference other than slower acceleration on ap1

[@slimjim77M]

@@hogan247 I would not call the difference huge, but it is distinct. At the limit, this distinction becomes even more apparent.

[@Diablo99V]

It wasn't watered down, it was refined.

[@moist.teabag]

Insurance and road tax is considerably cheaper for the ap1 in the uk

[@z32luvr]

@@moist.teabagthat’s because it’s older and less valuable.

[@gangsta_pigeon8023]

tuned 06+ ap2 is the best choice imo

[@walle200]

Funny how AP2 values have been going up faster- clearly the AP1 will be the purest example of a roadster

[@technically_jake]

blurred the speedometer... LOVE it :D

[@nickvlaanderen]

I have my 2002 S2K for almost 13 years now and I still love it very much. But only as second car. As a daily for me it is to noisy and here in Holland with rainshowers often, with top closed you have big blind spots. But on a sunny day with top down on a twisty road or on a racetrack everything falls in place. Here in Europe also the AP2 has the 9000rpm redline. Mine is an AP1 facelift year 2002. The AP2 is here since modelyear 2004. In Europe all have the F20 2 liter engine. If not, it is a import S2K. I think all of them are great. I only will sell it if I can afford a Porsche 981 or 718 Boxster but I fear I regret it when the S2K is gone.

[@jordangordon2350]

You know originally i wanted a c5 corvette for my second car... But i cant stop binge watching videos of this thing. This might be what i really want

[@jubbalandcars]

It’s a masterpiece

[@JoshGRacing]

What did you end up doing ?

[@jordangordon2350]

@@JoshGRacing ended up trading in the old daily for a 2018 WRX. Figured if got a 2 door I wouldn't be able to trade in. But I fell in love with this thing. Still plan on getting an AP1 when she's paid off 👍🏻

[@gaboaaa23]

the japanese engineers can be so proud of them selfs! these cars are like a japanese katana .

[@Strugglin]

I've had my AP1 since 2006 and I'll probably drive it till I die

[@diego_solis]

I'm buying it 25K cash

[@abrahamfabela8457]

Its still going?

[@mr.hernandezdrives]

glad you drove it with the top down, don't ruin YOUR experience for us the viewers 👍you can get lower seat rails to give you a little more room.. also on the steering feel, i installed aluminum solid bushings on steering rack and its a major handling improvement.. i have taken many many long trips on mine, even to maxico with my mom and they have all been a joy.. very comfortable. ap1 owner here,, anyway glad you love it, stay blessed.

[@VirtualGuth]

One of my favorite things about the S2000 is that you have the ability to drop the top (always my preference). Roadsters aren't for everyone but I think they're awesome, even opting for one when I bought my first car.

[@bwmcdonald96]

This is the best comparison video I've seen on KZbin💪

[@marcratelierbritishmotors5285]

Congratulation for the video with this comparaison, well done. - In Europe since the design refresh in 2004, we have the AP1 F20 engine and transmission inside the AP2 design body and interior, we call AP1 Phase 2. I have this specific version and on top with the accelerator cable, 90 K km original configuration body and mécaniques + few spoon upgrades on the chassis... it's come to be a Real Visceral Driving Machine (RVDM) 😉 - FYI, for tall driver, one of the solution is to use the Backyard rails keeping the OEM seat to reduce the seat height . I am 1.85m / 6,07 ft and it I am now confortable 😀

[@mixanderfigueroa3999]

Thanks so much! As someone who is considering an S2000 in the future, this is a really helpful video! Glad I found it! Both AP1 and AP2 have their pros and cons (starting to lean more towards an AP1, but still willing to consider an AP2).

[@Pizza_2921]

From what I concluded from this video, the ap1 is nicer to drive. Tho personally I like the looks of the ap2 more, so if I ever get one I would go for the ap1 but with an ap2 bodykit.

[@Perfectionyx]

I also have both, a 2001 and 2006. Both are great cars so I chose them both lol.

[@gryphon123456]

Well done! I'll tell you the conversation at the end was the most thought provoking part of the video. I have an 86 and I think this is the only car I'd trade into... they sound so amazing. Peak Honda! save for the NSX maybe.

[@petahlee]

I keep saying that the AP1 is a huge bargain (relatively speaking) compared to the AP2. Yes, the AP2 is the better car but when you are buying a S2K in 2022, you are not looking for the better car, you are looking for an exhilarating experience and the AP1 delivers this better than an AP2 by a wide margin.

[@jubbalandcars]

Well said

[@petahlee]

@@jubbalandcars One more bit of info: The added torque of the AP2 is largely the result of the shorter gearing, not engine output. Put a 4.4FD or larger final drive and the AP1 will feel way faster to boot.

[@rightfight100]

Honestly I would love to have an AP2 transmission in my AP1

[@Stancedude1]

Palos verdes is definitely the best place to drive a s2000 with the top down 👌🏻

[@getdealtwithquick]

Except for all the Tour de Douche dressed bike riders 🙄

[@KeithMRoberts1]

As a person who owned a 2001 AP1 and a 2006 AP2, I can say that the steering of 2004 and 2005 seemed to me to be a sloppy, but that all changed with the introduction of the VSA in 2006.

[@massimilianozeni1848]

Like you I'm tall, 183cm (6 foot something) with long legs and I have to say once you improve the seating position (I put a Recaro Japan rail with Recaro Japan RSG seats in the car, 5cm lower than stock) the car feels so much more sporty (you seat pretty high in the stock seat in my opinion). In Italy there is a Company which does a steering wheel spacer for the OEM Honda wheel with airbag. It does look decent on many cars, not so much on the S2000 but you can have it wrapped in leather or alcantara to make it more in tone with the interior. I'm considering it as it would bring the wheel 5cm closer to the driver which I would love, it would make such a difference. After market steering wheels looks better but no airbag...I don t know. In Europe we had the F20C2 'till the end of production, I feel we were the lucky ones :). I have a 2007 low miles car (well km..)and I drive the car on the Alps for summer holidays and during Christmas holiday as I live in China, Hong Kong. I also put Ohlins on the car, actually you can easily transform the way an S2000 drives with all the built in adjustment (camber caster etc.), you can easily make an ap2 (ap1 restyling in our case) behave like an ap1 with a little more stability which is good at the track. As for the review I agree that steering feel isn't the best, there is also a little bit of a "dead center" spot but I like how quick the ratio is and the accuracy. I find it pretty heavy though, which I also like. Is it even heavier in the 86 and newer cars? Nice review, what about a tastefully modified one next :) ?

[@jubbalandcars]

Def want to try a modded S2K!

[@plmsdevelopments]

I'm 186cm tall but fit fine since I found an extra 25mm leg room by resetting the pedal heights towards the firewall. Clutch and brake push rods have a lot of adjustment in them, throttle pedal was OK to start with.

[@ayowser01]

@@jubbalandcars I love love love my ASM s2k 🙂

[@creightonsmith5333]

As a long time AP1 driver, I found your video a very complete and accurate comparison of the AP1 vs AP2. It's not uncommon for manufactures to "tone down" later models to broaden the market. Personally, I tell folks that if they are a more conservative driver, get an AP2 or even the current Miata. On the other hand, if you're the kind of guy who loves to toss a car around and push it towards it's limit, get yourself an AP1.

[@jubbalandcars]

Well said! My buddies say AP2 is better overall if you're willing to modify suspension and such, but I'll need to drive modified vs modified to compare. Stock vs stock I'd take AP1 any day

[@jordangordon2350]

But the ap2 makes more power and torque no? Are you saying the more raw suspension and higher redline outweigh the slightly quicker ap2?

[@1HeatWalk]

Ap2 is faster than AP1. The body on the AP2 has been strengthened as well. However I believe the AP1 would be more fun to drive.

[@akala123]

Ap2 is the better daily. Ap1 is the better s2000. ap1 steering rack isnt for the novice

[@spencerchung-tangliu9949]

Awesome video, btw just recently matched into RadOnc and I’m also a car lover. We should hit the tail of dragon together. I took my S2k there and I was able to keep up with a McLaren 650s, 911 GT3 and a c8 corvette. Can’t break physics is the take home message lol

[@justsomerandomguyman]

When modified, the AP2 will be better. You will appreciate the refinement and bigger engine when you have a turbo setup and a faster car.

[@PBrooksSawyer]

You deserve more subs.

[@winstonmiu]

I would love to drive a JDM RHD one, but AP1 is my choice for USDM. Nothing beats the 9000 rpm redline.

[@3pedalpodcast]

Mine is Rhd ❤ she’s a mean machine

[@Savorychicken41]

All of my track friends run AP2.

[@fhowland]

AP2, no question. It just looks so Much better . Plus I own one lol

[@CruiseControl1]

I want an AP1. I owned an 09 Si coupe in orange pearl and the k20 is fun with its 8,200rpm redline but I want that rwd of the s2000. I currently have a 2022 GR86 in Neptune blue and I am going to sell it to buy an AP1.

[@rackss5369]

I have a 2005 blaze orange metallic rsx type s and man I want a s2000 thinking of trading it in for a s2k but I know girlfriend won’t be happy lol we have a daughter

[@SnoopiFL5]

2004-2005 best overall year for the S2000.

[@MeestroDavid]

That’s my feeling as well. I’ve owned a 2003, a 2007, and now a 2004 and feel it’s the best of what came before and after.

[@joshknorr6683]

you can get a 3 inch deep dish quick release steering wheel to fix the arm problem

[@scottkaluza4156]

I put some 17" BBS wheels on my Silverstone 2001. It made the car work well for me.

[@thehoboman]

AP2 looks better and has plug and play access to Hondata tunes.

[@endlesstwisties]

I never drove a true Ap1 or a true Ap2. My car is 02 Ap1 with F20C2 engine and different gearbox from first version. So I can't tell the difference

[@cidfacetious3722]

I’m 6’1 and I’m fairly comfortable in my AP2 I just wish the steering wheel was telescopic just an inch or so

[@fhowland]

Ya I’m 6’2 and feel comfortable in my S

[@Scav68]

You need to do tall guy mods! Recaro pole position and an aftermarket steering wheel.

[@S2k_GRsti]

On year 10 with my ap1! 🗿

[@VirtualGuth]

I'm an AP2 guy but appreciate any S2000 - preferably with the top down. We were fortunate here in North America to receive both the AP1 and the AP2. Japan was only other market to get the AP2 with the F22C engine. I wish Honda had named the AP2 the S2200, keeping with their S car tradition (S360, S500, S600, S800, etc.).

[@binskee677]

Hahaha Europeans are like „phuu we are lucky we could keep the AP1 and didn‘t get the AP2“

[@b.l.5099]

@@binskee677 in France we have AP1 like AP2 but yes the AP2 are imports (i had a AP2 but i prefer my integra type R DC2)

[@binskee677]

@@b.l.5099 Europe never got the real AP2, only the facelift but chassis was still coded as AP1. Oh yea integra is much sharper and lighter, awesome car, i have heard from many who have owned the S and the integra that the integra is the more focused car. The S has to be modded (chassis strengtening etc) to be on the level. I got the S because of the Rear Wheel drive

[@1HeatWalk]

AP2 just looks sexier and more modern if you want to keep the car's value up without modification.

[@joshuamedina8920]

Ap2 for the WIN

[@agentk4257]

Just hit 24k miles in my ap1

[@Realitywords89]

what a video and what a view!

[@jubbalandcars]

This is what dreams are made of

[@linkzz00]

AP2 engine feels like a Prelude whereas AP1 is just unique to its era. With that said, I put the CR suspension on my 02 LoL

[@jubbalandcars]

Eh wouldn’t say that

[@gryphon123456]

Man! The views on this road! Does anyone have a KZbin channel that highlights the most beautiful driving roads?

[@ayowser01]

The CR has the ap1 steering ratio.

[@jubbalandcars]

I like the sound of that

[@sixstrz8310]

My buddy has had an ap1 s2000 for about 6 months the way vetec hits in the high rpm’s is amazing! I always wanted an s2000 since I was young I was the one who got him into them, just recently bought an 05 ap2 s2000 and I’m in love! Tho the vetec feels a bit different his feels like it hits harder at the end?

[@dakota3872]

Ap1 motor with ap2 body.

[@jubbalandcars]

Me likey

[@sdlausen1]

I have an ap1 with full ap2 conversion. Best of both worlds! The Euro spec s2000 was the best though. AP2 updates all around but they kept the 9k redline f20c.

[@chrisigarashi7618]

Palos verdes baby

[@mickeyhartsell6096]

I want the car that the Japanese engineers originally designed the AP1. AP2 seems Americanized.

[@jubbalandcars]

Stock the AP1 wins. Modified and for long term ownership AP2 all the way

[@99superbun]

In UK I’ve got a AP1.5 which is the AP1 engine in a 2004 AP2 chassis, wish it could be included in this test

[@alanarzate93]

The best way to describe both cars is the AP1 is a better s2000 the AP2 is a better car but tbh at the end of the day you can't go wrong with either because honda engineering is impeccable 👌

[@jubbalandcars]

Yup that’s what jimmy said at the end of the video too

[@bwmcdonald96]

Ap1 for the win😎🤘

[@JohnnyKS2000]

I like my AP2. 2004

[@alsaku33]

AP1 hands down

[@sdlausen1]

as the saying goes... The ap2 is the better car, and the ap1 is the better s2000

[@jubbalandcars]

So true

[@sundaydriver2117]

i dont get it? wouldnt the original always be the better version of itself because its the most like what it was meant to be ya know because it was the first of its kind? every version of the car after that is just made based on that car. like of course the original is more like the original because its the original lol

[@sdlausen1]

@@sundaydriver2117 that's literally what the phrase means. The early models were the most raw driver focused cars. Progressively, the ap2 received better interior trim, suspension softened, slower steering rack, lower revving engine, etc. etc. making the ap2 a "better car", but not a better s2000 in the driving sense.

[@sundaydriver2117]

@@sdlausen1 well then whats the point of the saying in the first place is the question im wondering? you could legit just say that about any car. 2020 mustang gt500 is a better car but 1969 mustang gt500 is a better mustang gt500 like whats the point of even saying that? i could just say the AP2 S2000 is a better AP2 S2000 then the AP1 S2000 just because its an AP2. i think the point im tryna make is that you cant really judge based on name alone so saying its the better S2000 is kinda silly because you could legit just change the name to a porsche 911 and now you just compare the cars for the cars instead of the title of S2000. like if the AP2 S2000 is better then why isnt it just better, whats the point of saying the AP1 is the better S2000?

[@sdlausen1]

@@sundaydriver2117 bro. You are overcomplicating something very simple. The AP1 was a raw bare bones sports car. Basically, the way the engineers designed the s2000 to be. With the ap2, the car progressively got softer and softer every refresh but also received more creatures comforts making it technically an overall better more refined car but at the loss of the edginess of the ap1. The AP1 has a faster steering rack, rear suspension toes in on compression making it verrrry tail happy, bigger sway bars, and a louder more emotion engine that revs to 9k rpm. The ap2 lost all of that at the cost of comfort and refinement.What's so confusing about this? You clearly don't get it. I'm out. Peace.

[@Samurai6936]

Great Video! I have a tuned AP1 if you're interested? Best of both worlds imo. 9k redline, shorter gears and tuned with bolt ons.

[@jubbalandcars]

Definitely. Where are you located

[@Samurai6936]

@@jubbalandcars West Covina. i'll dm your instagram

[@davidmartinez-gj8ek]

I wanna ride! 🤣 been wanting to tune my ap1 but a stand alone ain’t cheap you got kpro?

[@Samurai6936]

@@davidmartinez-gj8ek Sure. Yeah, its a standalone (Doctronic). Its pricey but worth it imo

[@t-money10]

Ap1 all Day!!!!😊

[@b.l.5099]

AP1 = 2.0L AP2 = 2.2L

[@Fasttechs2k]

The name says it all.. S2000 not S2200. AP1 and 9k all day!

[@endlesstwisties]

Good point

[@gangsterpancake1231]

The 2000 stood for the new millennium, not the liter 😂

[@kmsthanks]

​@@gangsterpancake1231it was for the liters, though the year also probably played a role. The s2000 was a successor the the previous S line cars such as S800, S1600, etc

[@scottsmith7337]

AP1 always

[@lazyrider6918]

The AP1 with F20c is the only real s2000. Even based on the name alone, the F22c AP2 should be named s2200.

[@eajayy8969]

the only thing holding me back from considering it as an option is just the size. seems anyone near 5'10 or up is gonna be a bit uncomfortable. also them prices xD.

[@jubbalandcars]

I’m 6’1” 180lb and it’s not too bad apart from steering wheel not coming out enough

[@eajayy8969]

@@jubbalandcars is the headroom good with the hood down?

[@samwisee]

I probably would’ve bought an AP1 if I didn’t already have a really hardcore car. AP2 is a bit more civilized and easier to live with daily and that’s what I used mine for. It has flaws, steering you mention but I am also not a fan of the brakes - just didn’t have the immediacy and bite I am looking for and for the speed it can carry in corners the brakes don’t really inspire the same level of confidence to match the chassis dynamics. But man if somehow Honda can solve those two things this would be the perfect sports car

[@peejayem4700]

They made the tacho smaller on the AP2 so they could make space for a digital clock. That speaks volumes.

[@jubbalandcars]

TIL

[@evsales]

Hands down for the money 💰 AP2

[@jubbalandcars]

🤔

[@Grabthars_Hammer]

The fact that nobody wants to sell their AP2 seems to me a strong indicator. I feel lucky that I found an '04 last Oct. Drove it back to WI from CO

[@bige7186]

9,000 > 8,000 WINNER AP1 🤭

[@Strugglin]

AP1 for the true s2000 experience

[@VirtualGuth]

When you start talking money, the AP1 represents the better buy these days as the difference in price between the two is not insignificant. For someone needing to stretch to afford a S2000, I'd recommend the AP1 even though I'm an AP2 guy myself.

[@h.j.victory6103]

Where is this at?

[@jesseolivermusictherapy]

best spec is S2000 AP1 with shorter final drive ratio, power steering clog for more feedback, and hardtop with rollcage.

[@JJW4143]

Debating selling my 9th gen turbo si for one but idk boost and power lol

[@nathantruong142]

Where is this road?

[@jubbalandcars]

Close to LA

[@X文-v3z]

u picked the right one~

[@Diablo99V]

AP2 > AP1 but more importantly S2000 > Most of everything. 😅

[@bige7186]

AP1 > AP2 9,000 > 8,000

[@Diablo99V]

Actually is 8,900 vs 8,400 🤷🏻‍♂️ and the AP2 can be easily made to rev over 9,000 es, mine does.

[@bige7186]

@@Diablo99V no no no 😂 nice try tho !!

[@pablonator3000able]

​@@Diablo99Vyep Hondata

[@MrCaterhamr500]

AP1 is the proper JDM model, AP2 is Americanised and not as authentic in my view. Why would I want an engine with a lower redline when the AP1 has all the drama of 9000rpm.

[@jubbalandcars]

yup stock, AP1 wins. but if you're modifying and tracking, AP2 all the way for reliability

[@DavidRidlespriger-k2f]

Who want a side bet ?

[@chrisharris6462]

So get ap2 first. Then graduate to ap1

[@georgeboyd4619]

AP-FUCKING-ONE!!

[@jubbalandcars]

Stock for stock AP1 all the way

[@maroonsr20]

such bullshit that you have to blur the tach/speedo in a a video....

[@geoffreyfarrugia1474]

AP1

[@19hundoc47]

9k redline. Debate over