Which Smart Energy Monitor Is Right For You? ShellyEM vs Sense

[@TheHookUp]

A quick clarification note: I know the electrons shown in the animation are showing DC not AC current, this is a representation of my video editing skills, not my knowledge of physics. Please imagine that the animation takes place in less than 1/60th of a second :)

[@MichaelMantion]

I have a pentair 011018. I want to add a chlorine generator and lights and I would like to automate them. I plan to pull a 60 amp line and was going to put a sub panel. Is your pentair panel smart in anyway? I want to be able to control my pool with Alexa. Others have made videos but they are kinda lacking in details.

[@seraphina985]

While it would be a complete pain I can't help but wonder whether shutting everything off and individually toggling a single device at a time a few times may increase the likelyhood of detection with the sense. At least, in theory, it would improve the signal to noise ratio for the device you are trying to get established by eliminating the noise on the power line caused by other devices. By the way trying to get things like computers with switched-mode power supplies and load-dependent consumption to be detected as baseload is likely to be tricky however you do it.

[@livinthedream1525]

Love the video. One quick note tho, in the US the phases are not 180 degrees from each other. It is simply a different transformer winding that is in phase with the first. That’s why it’s called single phase power. That’s a common misconception that even most electricians don’t fully understand. I’m an electrician and just had this conversation with some co workers a few weeks ago.

[@rdpecken]

@@livinthedream1525 , I disagree about the phases being "in-phase" with each other. I am a retired electronics technician with over 40 years experience working for large generation, transmission and distribution power companies, and have observed on an oscilloscope many times that the two phases are indeed 180 degrees out of phase with each other. We use 240 volt split-phase feeds in the US. For small residential buildings, the usual method is to rig up a 240V stepdown transformer (instead of 120V) in which the secondary winding is split into two 120V windings (hence the name "split phase"). The center tap is then grounded and fed to the house as if it was the neutral wire of the old 120V system, and each end is wired as a separate 120V live wire. Their waveforms have a half-cycle offset, or 180 degrees, when measured against the neutral wire. (credit:appliantology.org/blogs/entry/606-explanation-of-120v-single-phase-240v-split-phase-and-208v-3-phase/)

[@WanderlustWonderscape]

If you want to really get into the physics of electrons, check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHmsmZqulttsgrs

[@mikescott58]

I ordered the ShellyEM and didn't realize it shipped from Switzerland. I placed the order on November 21 and it shipped on the 23rd. It wasn't received by the USPS in Chicago until December 16 and was finally delivered today making the delivery time a little over one month! Looking forward to hooking it up to my EVSE to monitor energy used to charge my car.

[@rockstardonut777]

Switzerland, are you sure? The shelly shop is showing an address in Bulgaria. And i believe Shelly is a Chinese company.

[@TheHookUp]

Shelly is a Bulgarian company.

[@BroncoPatriot]

I don’t have the issues you experienced with Sense. I have over 40 devices showing up and only 5 of them are incorrect over the past year. The Shelly or any other solution is very costly when you decide to monitor more than a few devices. It is all about what you really want to monitor. I needed 6 devices to be monitored and the Sense was the most cost effective solution but took 3 months to benefit from that “investment.” Also, you have limited space in your panel so to have multiple “clamps” with devices inside your panel could be dangerous and can be a nightmare to manage connectivity. You are right though that Sense is hyped to be this great solution to discover devices but it does take a long time to do it and each home is different with line noise due to location, installation and quality of feed wires. Overall, this area of smart tech isn’t very smart and has seemed to be very costly for those of us who would like to be more eco-friendly and curb our usage patterns. If the Shelly could be even more lower in cost similar to the switches then we would be able to monitor the right amount of devices without spending a ton of $$$.

[@paulfontaine7819]

Of course your second AC is difficult to detect for the Sense: both ACs have the same power signature, it is very difficult for the Sense to distinguish them. I have the same issue with all my devices of similar power (signature)

[@TheJeffesterline]

You need to look at the Emporia Vue 2nd Gen. I have only had it installed for 3 weeks, but the information it provides is amazing. It uses a sensor for every circuit, up to 16, and you can use more than one unit if you have more than one panel. They have smart outlets to get more info about a monitored circuit , or monitor individual plugs in your home that are not monitored in your electric panel. No machine learning. I don't know about extracting your data, as I don't have a desire to use that feature.

[@shubinternet]

I’m also curious about the Emporia versus the Sense. Please let us know how it goes!

[@txcas]

How about an updated review using the Shelly 3EM?

[@samuraiintellectual]

The sense was a great idea. After 3 years of having it installed I now have “35 motor” notifications with very little information on how to determine what it actually is. The concept of crowd information to determine what’s what I thought was a great idea, however I don’t think they have enough installations to make that work. I had to turn off all notifications from the app as I was getting constant “a new motor has been detected” messages.

[@ChaseCares]

I would love to see an update about the Sense, do you still use it? Are there still a significant amount of devices that aren't picked up? and are there any features that improve the product since you last reviewed it?

[@RPostWVU]

I would too. So many more systems now: IoTaWatt, Neurio,Smappee, Efergy, Curb, Vue, Eyedro.

[@bigfan007]

Great, detailed review. Machine Learning (Sense) us still pretty immature, despite all the media hype. It is a shame they do not allow a common sense manual approach to identify problematic devices.

[@AugmentedPixel]

I do building controls for DSG,Wallmart,Ikea ect. and they use the same type of product but also use smart breakers so that they can remotely turn off breakers and lights. Its pretty cool and easy to program

[@aleonyohan6745]

I work on large commercial HVAC systems. I have seen many large rooftop units running when they shouldn't be due to various reasons. I found a monitor that cost $300 per rooftop and can be simply installed no matter how old the unit is. Any advice on how to pitch this to the building owner?

[@nstevenson02]

Ever consider a refresh on this topic with the newer and cheaper equipment now available?

[@DethpickleDave]

Awesome as usual. Folks in SoCal, don't over look using the rainforest eagle energy monitor. It can join your zigbee network to intercept the continuous power messages sent out by your utility's smart meter. It offers some cloud stuff, but also a local push that pretty easily goes into NodeRed/HA as well.

[@TheHookUp]

The dream! An open protocol energy meter would be amazing.

[@hgelpke]

How do I get in on this? I'm an Ladwp customer

[@DethpickleDave]

@@hgelpke No idea on your specific utility. I'm on SDGE and setup was trivial. The product is here: rainforestautomation.com/rfa-z114-eagle-200-2/

[@hgelpke]

@@DethpickleDave How did you get the smart meter? Is your home newer or did you get it installed?

[@DethpickleDave]

@@hgelpke A few years ago SDGE rolled it out to all of San Diego. No more meter reading for them. The opportunity of Demand Response programs and OhmConnect for us. It just happens that the meters speak Zigbee and Rainforest makes a gadget for listening to it. I'd start with your utility and see if they have anything like it (or if you already have it).

[@VolgClawtooth]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that you could literally install the Shelley EM in parallel with your desired device's power cord.. say in in an outlet and thusly monitor exactly the appliance you want.. granted this solution quickly surpasses the Sense cost if you monitor more than five outlets.. but for the control and granularity..

[@TheHookUp]

Yeah, the sense is definitely going for the "minimum wires, single location" approach, which sounds cool in theory, but in practice it has mostly been a failure.

[@MehrdadGivehchi]

Thanks for the video... I have both Sense and IOTAWATT and highly recommend IOTAWATT as this product is simply awesome and full of features.

[@scottbrown4611]

IoTaWatt is a great Open Source tool. I have one and would recommend it over these two.

[@frederickmack9655]

Do you have a link to the product?

[@jqzIII]

I got my smart energy monitor for $20. Just a lil ltr-sdr dongle I bought on Amazon and connected to my Pi³. Sniffin' my electric meters RF signal. It was fun. Counts every last kWh too.

[@jqzIII]

@420 Gaming Here's one... kzbin.info/www/bejne/opyol32hebmEf7M. btw... My meters don't have any visible antennas. But still they send out radio. I have yet to get my water meter into HA. It's too far and buried underground a bit. Oh well. Have fun.

[@jensschroder8214]

it makes sense to connect the Shelly 2EM to 120 volts with split phase, with an angle of 180° 240 volt devices will draw power from both current sensors. 120V devices will only show power to one current sensor. One current sensor needs to be reversed. It doesn't work that way on a three-phase current with an angle of 120°.

[@seanc4877]

I have the Emporia and it does a great job, albeit using a Cloud to aggregate data. Unfortunately, I have several panels so need more customization than it can support. I’d like to consider the Shelly device but I wasn’t clear if those can share the reference breaker otherwise it seems like a nonstarter as I can add reference breakers for each Shelly EM. I have a main 400amp service then 3 separate panels in different areas of my home which makes this challenge.

[@ulkesh78]

Odd that 2 of your device types it won't discover happen to be "duplicate" device types, 2 fridges, 2 AC units...

[@TheHookUp]

I'd be willing to bet it is the root cause of the problem.

[@Allclear75]

Not really odd if you understand what Sense is trying to do. Most houses only have 1 AC Unit and fridge, so once Sense algorithms find the first one the algorithm looks for the next best match, because it's not logical to have two generally.

[@Mrcaffinebean]

The Hook Up are the refrigerators the same make and model?

[@Mrcaffinebean]

Justin Spade it’s not all that uncommon, especially having two fridges. I wonder if it’s that they have an inability to distinguish them or if like you said they are making the assumption they are the same. If it’s the latter then a discovery process that he suggests would solve that problem as well.

[@TheHookUp]

@@Mrcaffinebean Very different fridges. One nice samsung fridge, 1 cheap sears brand fridge.

[@kenrodriguez9645]

Emporia Vue is best of both worlds. Measures the mains, and measures 8 breakers with CTs. Install is as easy as the Sense but none of the guesswork. Directly measuring my pool sub panel, Upstairs AC, downstairs AC, Laundry room, kitchen/fridge, office, and 2 other breakers directly. Software is transparent, no coding or learning curve. $100 - lot better deal than the Sense.

[@TheHookUp]

I might have to take a look at that, the Sense is probably the most worthless device in my home.

[@kabturek]

fancy computer magic is called NILM (Non Invasive Load Monitoring) - there is a research paper about it

[@hwcanotabot]

I believe it's Non- INTRUSIVE Load Monitoring

[@MoeBabaloosh]

Couldn't they learn faster with a circuit chirp? Induce a unique frequency through the power cord and assist the machine learning to recognize faster? Also, nicknames or enable editing on device nomenclature for easy ID for the end user? These features/capabilities don't seem to difficult to add on...I wonder why MFR doesn't offer?

[@kwaradio22]

Hey Rob, any plans to update this topic? I'm considering my options and wondered if you've learned more in the past few years.

[@fariddergal1265]

HI 8b my region we use 2 120v lines and they have different phase from each other , so to be accurate measuring each line, I had to put a single Shelly per line , to that the reference voltage is the same than the line measuring , that's the only thing you need to consider. great video thanks for sharing

[@paulrichmond6903]

Have you looked at the TED6000? It will handle 2 & 3 phase supplies and will allow you to combine sensors. It maxes out at 1 MCU, with three mains sensors, and up to two Spyder modules, each able to monitor 8 sensors. I’ve been using mine for a couple of years now and am just starting to integrate it with a home automation system.

[@D-Khaz]

You should refer to the breakers as one pole or two pole and not 120v/240v. Both of those QO breakers are actually rated for 240v applications. I’m knit picking, but you are a teacher so I figured you’d want to know.

[@TheHookUp]

Good tip, thanks.

[@Allclear75]

Sense is compatible with TP-LINK HS110 Smart Plug w/Energy Monitoring and Kasa Smart WiFi Power Strip by TP-Link - 6 Outlet Surge Protection, so if you have hard to track loads like computers and TV's these will communicate with Sense & show up in devices.

[@anikogerdes9404]

I don't know much about US home electricity, but I want to mention that if your devices are connected to the mains by regular wall sockets or power strips, then you can use Tasmota-capable switchable plugs that can also measure voltage, current, and power (including reactive and apparent power) for less than 10€ per piece. With all the Tasmota benefits like MQTT integration that you already know. You only have to flash these Tuya devices. At that price, 1 plug per device is that you want to measure is very affordable and it saves you from messing with the breaker box and enables remotely switching the device on and off, too. Max amps of the plugs may be a limiting factor.

[@TheHookUp]

Yeah, amperage is going yo be the limiting factor. No plug is going to be able to handle an air con compressor or heat pump.

[@Griswald2000]

I purchased the sense a couple years ago as I wanted to monitor my hot tub. It did find the hot tub in a reasonable time frame and now has 46 devices. It isn't perfect but it fit my needs. I am interested in the Shelley as we may be moving and won't have a hot tub in our new place.

[@hannuhanhi183]

Here in the modern world we use smart energy meters pulse output to measure the whole house electricity consumption. One esp32, one phototransistor some code, cost 10 € :)

[@dannydoolhoff4215]

The biggest problem for some people with the discovery of new items in the sense, is some people have multiples of the same item. 2 fridges bought at the same time and of the same model for example can be seen as the same device, at least at first, if on the same half of the split phase circuit. Multiples of the same A/C unit can also be problematic at best for proper discovery.

[@tom95521]

I have 2 consumption monitoring devices. Enphase CTs (part of solar install) and Emporia Vue Utility Connect to read smart meter data.

[@boogermeats]

This is a great video showing the features & shortfalls.

[@vk3fbab]

I have used a lot of Schneider electric monitoring. Their gear is great because it can be either 3P or 3x1P. I'm in Australia hence the the use of single and 3 phase. However you need to ensure that your V and I are on the phase because it actually multiplies the instantaneous V and I. So if you cross phases it will be very wrong. I have crossed phases before and you get really wrong results. This could also be happening with the Shelly but not sure as I've never used their gear.

[@nappyjim]

General question with monitoring 240v appliances using the EM. So I'm measuring my water heater, I currently have 240v fed into the EM. I then have one clamp over 1 of the lines coming out of the water heater contactor. Whatever the EM reads from that one line, do I need to double it? So let's say it says my water heater has used 100kwh so far. Since I'm only monitoring one line, has it actually used 200kwh?

[@anpc86]

2024 - what are your thoughts on whole home energy monitoring as they are new options since you did this video. I find a lot of people seem disgruntled with Sense. And trying to get shelley em to cover the home is difficult. Looking at Emporia Vue

[@TUMARK2]

I was looking for a way to monitor generator load. I have a 30 amp 110 V generator circuit. The shelly montoring system seems like a good fit for this.

[@E150GT]

I was thinking about the sense but in my area the outside service panel has on the 240v breakers and the inside panel has all the single pole breakers. Im worried it might not be able to recognize the circuits in the inside panel or at least distinguish them from one another

[@tonywebb9909]

I guess the Shelly is a bit more European by design. The EM can use 120amp CTs, it's good for a garden lighting panel, where you can save money by switching out circuits out unnecessary times with the Shelly relays. I used the MQTT to integrate with my Control 4 system, but also is not 100% yet

[@XzTS-Roostro]

The Sense was featured on Ask This Old House

[@Adri_drinks_wtr2]

I love this video :) dude just flexed so smoothly all over the haters by informing them that he gots two ACs and two fridges, two stories but with his two eyes, he cant see you poor hating pheasants :))

[@MarcoRagonesi]

Have a look at smappee. It has the ability to learn a new device if you turn on off 3/4 times. Unfortunately the closed local API access so there's no more access to the discovered devices to HA. They maintained local mqtt access so you still have access to overall power consumption

[@brentonolander7244]

I own a sense and like it very much. Their software is very good as you point out. Your criticisms are spot on, however. I think people have been complaining about their closed down discovery process for many years and nothing has been done, so I don’t expect any improvements soon. I sometime wonder if the “electrical signature” they talk about is any more sophisticated than your node red flow logic for the Shelly.

[@TheHookUp]

Oh, it's much more sophisticated I'm sure.

[@CosminRotaru]

I need a smart plug with energy monitoring to figure out if a device (like a non smart tv or audio system) is on or off on home assistant without controlling the plug. I don't want to turn this plug on or off. I just need to know current flow... Or some sensor to connect directly to raspberry. Help? I can't find such device.

[@james10739]

If the air conditioners are the same it seems like it would think they were the same device but ya you should be able to add things which I assume has been added now

[@boogermeats]

Has the discovery been fixed? Are there better alternatives? Two legs. Only one phase.

[@TheHookUp]

Sense device discovery has not been improved. What is your use case?

[@boogermeats]

@@TheHookUp My well pump/motor has failed in the past. Also, my pressurizer pump/motor. I want to be able to alert if either has run more that 5 minutes. If it's not picking up all the loads, I'll probably settle with Emporia Energy (Later I will add a WiFi breaker with a shunt trip)

[@sissymurphy9620]

what about this new wise one that seems easy to use .The only thing in both of my panel boxes I do not have any extra breaker spots .How would these work with that and if I have to borrow power from another breaker how can you tell if it is pulling to much power from what ever that breaker is used for .The electricians here in VA do not seem to understand these devices when I ask them about install of one in my house >My house is all electric and I would like to know when something may be using more power than needed .I have a well and that and the heat pump concern me .

[@pabloestevezgonzalez5862]

Are there any alternatives for the ShellyEM? Like Tuya or Sonoff branded.

[@ericl4160]

New Subscriber... I was hoping you did a follow up video on Node-Red Code you use with ShellyEM. I am trying to integrate into my Home Assistant and Ted5000, but it's only picking up the first element. Do you have more documentation anywhere?

[@JonCherba]

Could you do an episode using CT's instead of a premade system?

[@efenili]

Great video, one of the more useful I've found. I've been considering the Sense for awhile but haven't really figured if its worth the cost. There are only so many expensive appliances I have that aren't always on and therefore controllable enough to try and get some energy savings. The ones that are I've already attached individual energy monitors to them for much less $$ than the sense costs and I know exactly what appliance is which. One could question the accuracy of those types of monitors though. Im pretty handy but the Sense is easily the way I would go out of these 2. It may have short comings but it's convenience wins the day for me by quite a bit and I think that would be the case for many DIYers as electronics is usually the trickiest thing to learn =) I feel like utility companies should supply this sort of thing themselves for free :| It's annoying that one of the main reasons I even want this is to see if the energy company is properly billing me or not :\

[@krasate]

Take a look at Efergy engage hub energy monitor too. I 've been using with no issues for several years in 3 phase installations. It would be nice to hear your opinion compared to the other two. Home Assistant integration available too but no per-device monitoring (yet...).

[@BruhMan_5]

So with the two 120A clamps, you could essentially use the shelly as a whole home monitor as well. Then you could create a helper where if something is using both phases you could double or halve the values depending on the reference voltage. It should work like this if my understanding is correct right?

[@GCSol]

His wiring diagram is much different than what I've seen online. I think the Shelly only comes with one 120 amp CT and I haven't been able to find where you can purchase just another one by itself.

[@GeorgeElenaRempel]

Does it also Monitor voltage over time. I have very very bad electricity in my house and the provider ignores the problem, they say there’s nothing wrong

[@joedecaria6499]

Can you connect to ev charger for the consumption of kwh and calculation cost thank you

[@Coollision]

Hey @The Hook Up , I would love to see an explanation on how the device detection code works!

[@ehabbarouki9081]

Hello, I agree with you in that it seems frustrating that you can't manually add devices/appliances around your home and have to wait on Sense to pick it up (if it ever does). Have you tried out some of Sense's competitors, such as Neurio? It seems like a clean app, and there looks to be a way to put the app in "training mode" and add appliances manually. I was just hoping you'd be able to provide some more input on other products that may offer "total home" easy setups but have more flexibility in setup/app customization. Thank you for your feedback!

[@wstewart5532]

Great video! Shelley sounds like a solution that I have been seeking since my original plan of Emporia Vue was foiled by the fact that Emporia requires a connection to the cloud for the app to read any data. My use case is the desire to monitor instantaneous load of my backup generator while it is powering select circuits on my breaker panel. I lose internet when my neighborhood power is out so I can't read Emporia data when the generator is being used. But I do still have local wifi and it sounds like one of the Shelley devices can easily be used to display load on my backfeed wires, correct? I see a lot of Shelley devices on their website now - any that you recommend for this limited use case?

[@peaksix_]

I know this video is a few years old, but can you confirm that your Shelly 240V measurement at 6:13 truly works? It's exactly what I am hoping to do, but Shelly support is claiming it won't, and that I'll need multiple Shelly EMs or a different device. Not sure if they're misunderstanding my intent? Kind of confused...

[@JosephTammaro]

Question. I am renovating my house. Is there a reliable timer that can be controlled remotely? I wish to control outdoor lights remotely.

[@iannecj]

Although you may have said this....for me the fundamental difference is you cant monitor at the 120/240 split phase panel level with the EM (because its one one single phase at a time) so its Sense at the main panel and EM for loads for me. was interesting that you can put one of the (2) 120V mains on the devices neutral connection allowing for 240V single loads to be monitored. I dont see it in manual. I would think in places where you have 240V line to neutral that is the norm for this device to get 240V. Are you coordinating with the manufacturer on this install mode? in any event, Love your stuff. Ive been an electrical power engineer for 30 years but I'm a novice home automater, microcontroller tinkerer...and Ive learned alot from your videos. Wanted to say thanks.

[@TheHookUp]

Yes, I contacted Shelly about all of these install options and got the green light from them.

[@ChrisMacaluso]

@@TheHookUp Do you know if this is still OK to wire the EM this way for US split phase usage? I am planning a project to monitor two HVAC loads and would be able to use one EM and two 50A clamps in total for this project if that is the case. Your video is literally the only documentation I can find online that mentions allowing 2x 120v mains to be connected at L and N and a clamp to be placed around one of the two phases going to the circuit you want to monitor.

[@peanut9779]

Are the fridges on the 120 feed? It probably thinks they are one unit and you'll need to separate them in the devices tab

[@vladimir0700]

Of course, that’s for the 120A unit. Isee that the 50A model is $60

[@1964davidsable]

For a guy who talks about safety, you do know you're suppose to have minimum clear space around your main panel for safety.

[@beckyschwantes5287]

Well, what is the clearance specification? You can’t tell the guy he needs to have blowout clearance around his panels and not tell him what it needs to be?

[@LassiVVV]

New video idea to review and intergrate Shelly 3EM energymeter to home assistant?

[@celsiusfahrenheit1176]

Insurance companies would not cover the damages done by DIY homeowners that doing electrical work, at least in Massachusetts. I do not care what people do in their homes but as a licensed electrician I would notify the local inspector and my insurance company if a homeowner would touch my work after I inspected it. Also in my career, I have seen skilled licensed professionals getting hurt for stupid things, accidents just happen sometimes and they can be serious. I will check out the monitors though :) cause I legally can LOL

[@bytenik]

This is a common misconception; US split phase power is not 180 degrees out of phase. It is in phase. 180 degree out of phase power would result in 0V when the two phases are combined. Instead you are using a single phase with a center tap at the transformer. The voltage is only -120V when you reference against the center tap. In reality, it would be better to mark the wires as 0V, 120V, and 240V. The potential difference between the 0V and 240V is 240V, whereas the potential difference between the 120V and 240V is 120V, hence a second 120V "leg."

[@bunnymaid]

No Leakage or GFC? Scary. JP is the same, just a bit lower around 100v. And our distributions are usually plastic boxes next to the bathroom!

[@TheHookUp]

GFC is on specific circuits, not in the panel itself.

[@xandersnyder7214]

What about using the Shelly 1PM on the outlets you want to measure your devices on? The only thing I could think of would be for 220v equipment that is drawing over 15amps.

[@chrisperrywv]

Is this still what you’d use on a dryer?

[@gverran]

I would be quite keen to see such a detailed review on the Smappee energy monitor. The fact that Sense does not allow you to teach it is quite a deal breaker. I am hoping Smappee isn't like that. Also, I didn't know that your circuits in the US have a combination of 120v and 240v. Your circuit breaker board looks quite complicated. Here in SA, we are 240v only which I would think makes our circuit breakers a lot less complicated.

[@TheHookUp]

The breakers are pretty simple once you've seen a few of them. I haven't heard of smappee, I'll be buying an IoTaWatt to test out on the advice of a bunch off commentators.

[@kinteseay]

Hey, I wanted to verify that you've actually wired the Shelly as you mention at the 5:48 mark in the video? I'm interested in measuring two 240V circuits in the United States and was hoping to only use 1 shelly device to do it. I keep hearing conflicting info as to if I can power the shelly from both phases of the panel.

[@TheHookUp]

You'll want the shelly 3em to do that, not the standard em like in this video.

[@kinteseay]

@@TheHookUp Thanks for the clarification

[@douglaswright6228]

Thanks for the demonstrations! Very helpful. My Comment is: The Shelly US online store is frankly terrible. They don't accept credit cards, They don't ship to the Virgin Islands , and they don't answer the phone. There is a Shelly EM on amazon , that's great but they only offer the unit with 1 CT (good for 120v only). My Question is : Where did you purchase your additional CT's ? My application is to monitor energy use at 3 different apartment sub-panels , and on 4-5 additional circuits for HVAC (All are 240v ) I need to apply usage to each tenant. So I think I need 7 or 8 EM's and 2 CT's for each one. I'm assuming the app will let me label each EM however I wish. Please advise and Thank you again!

[@servant74]

There was an article a long time ago (20+ years) that Popular Science or Mechanix Illustrated had on monitoring power using just gross mains power. My wife and I did it manually for a while as an experiment. Without extra equipment, we turned off all non-always on equipment and left the house for an hour, reading the power meter before and after we returned. We did the same for washing a load of clothes, drying them, cooking a chicken, boiling a pot of water, running our heater, and air conditioner, and even our lights and TV. With all this power data, we generated our spreadsheet and graphs (yes, by hand, no computer). We learned a lot. With experience writing an app, it should be easy to almost replicate the Sense without the AI. It does take some dedication and sluthing, but it can be done. Some loads are SO small, that they hardly matter (alarm clock), but even your always on TVs and cameras do make for a pretty heavy load, especially if you are doing this in preparation of going 'off grid' or other similar effort.

[@JoseAlcerreca]

Awesome video, thanks. How often can you send power data over mqtt? I'd like to see spikes. Does it read the value at a particular moment or does it average since the last read? I guess it does the former :)

[@healeydave]

Shelly offers a choice on the CT clamps (e.g. 2x 50A , 2 x 120A , 1 x 120A & 1 x 50A), initially, I just want to monitor my whole home consumption and will be wanting a 120A CT clamp for sure but is there any benefit to getting a lower amperage clamp? I should clarify, I'm in the UK where we run on 240V Single Phase. I don't currently have a plan for the second channel so should I just get 2 x 120A CT clamps?

[@TheHookUp]

The lower the current tolerance on the CT the more precise your readings will be.

[@healeydave]

@@TheHookUp I did think that could be the only reason for there being different rated clamps.

[@vladimir0700]

Be good if you could make a separate version that discludes the basic electrical theory for those that just want the device reviews/comparison. Also, the buy link for the shelly em is dead

[@avhound2]

" Very bad things are going to happen". I died laughing at that simple comment. And if I hadn't already been a subscriber, that would have been good enough to get me to subscribe. That was hilarious.

[@fernandomachado3439]

Hello, May I ask you the entities are created in order to use them in Home Assistant Ui?

[@Allclear75]

I think in 5 to 7 years Sense is going to live up to everyone's dreams. I have one and while it may not be magical yet, it has taught me enough about my usage to easily pay for itself in a year. The team working on Sense also worked on Human speech recognition, (think Siri and Alexa) it takes time to gather the mountains of data to make it perfect.

[@TheHookUp]

I agree with this assessment. Data is the key.

[@DudleyaSetchellii]

Are you able to EDIT the Sense devices listing if it doesn't recognize devices? Just to tell it you know the name of it for cloud reference and want it distinctly named for yourself.

[@leopoldomolina1763]

Hi. What is the sample rate of Shelly EM? 1 min, 3 min, 1 hour ? I’d like it to be 1 min resolution

[@automationamateur4650]

Great Video. I would love to see the explanation of the logic in the code at the end of the video.

[@MeisterQ]

Wow. As a german this circuits and breakers looks like its from stone-age. But at all, very good and nice video. I would always prefer the shelly. I dont like this auto-discover thing. Oh and about the MQTT-Topics: Im getting the topics where you told you never got them. The shelly is sending them each 5minutes or so i think.

[@TheHookUp]

Oh nice, maybe I didn't monitor those topics long enough. I wonder why they are sending reactive power so infrequently since it's just as important as total power.

[@darthtater]

What do German circuit breakers look like?

[@MeisterQ]

@@darthtater Google for ABB circuitbreaker.

[@Michael-w8v]

I wouldn't say Sense is a high quality since it is not gonna detected dishwasher all the time if the powers on other appliances are similar. I work with Automatic Protection System a lot.

[@jblyon2]

I'd get a Sense IF and only if they added the capability to turn something on, and then tell the system what you just turned on. Seems like it would be an easy way to greatly increase the reliability of their algorithm. I get that they want to sell a device that you just install and then don't have to do anything else, but it's been years and the accuracy, if it even registers a device at all, is still in the toilet.

[@davebarsby1338]

Reactive power is now available in the Shelly EM via MQTT, how could this be used to increase accuracy on device identification ?

[@TheHookUp]

Nice, I'll need to play around with it a bit and see what I can hash out.

[@davebarsby1338]

@@TheHookUp Any Luck ?

[@anuadu]

Energy monitoring and Blinds/Curtain control are two areas that still do not have reliable robust product that can be integrated in to Home automation. Surely someone out there should seize the opportunity and come up with something cool.

[@aacc3876]

Great video! Will you review the Shelly 3EM?

[@TheHookUp]

As soon as I get my hands on it

[@MW-sv1dp]

Don't waste a breaker, double that s*** up!

[@joseallende8767]

Is there a way to change the endpoint in which communicate to the cloud for the Shelly 2.5?

[@raymondkeatts5074]

Can the Sense and Shelley EM be used to monitor individual circuits instead of entire breaker panel?

[@chrisw.1914]

Awesome video! Very informative.

[@97JoMiller]

any update where you can add devices? my main devices that I want to monitor is my plex, my NAS server, and my pool pump which are always running.

[@rustusandroid]

So then why do all my breakers come with accommodations for two sets of wires?

[@colby4390]

Can you now do PowerX energy monitoring

[@TheHookUp]

I've been in contact with PowerX for months now, they are experiencing a lot of production delays and are not ready to ship.

[@hernandez9961]

How that it's been a few months from this review, has the sense recognized more of your devices?

[@TheHookUp]

I think it might actually be worse now. I'd say 80% of the time I only have 2 energy "bubbles" one for "Always on" and one for "Other".

[@hernandez9961]

@@TheHookUp That's a total bummer. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, and I appreciate your thorough videos!

[@ScottJaitly]

@@TheHookUp You've most likely incorrectly installed the sense on the same phase: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWGkaIqEhNqqZqc&t=260

[@tayloryslava7002]

i need to monitor just my energy usage. i live in a home that has been split in half...the upstairs unit is a 3 bedroom 2 bath & my downstairs unit is a 2 bedroom 2 bath. My pg & e bill is sometimes $600 so my half would be $300.....but i know i dont use that much energy. I domt have a A/c, a heater, a dishwasher which the upstairs unit does have & my fridge is mu h smaller than the full size fridge is upstairs. what device would you recommens i install?

[@sissymurphy9620]

how much power do these use and if they use a lot of power where are you saving electricity

[@arshamskrenes]

sissy murphy The CT’s use almost no power. Most of the power draw comes from their processors, which for the Shelly is probably a micro controller like the ESP32. The Sense is probably using a few passive components, micro controllers, and application processor like in an old smart phone. I’d estimate it to be up to 5W. So about $5-10/year in electricity.

[@cedricpod]

the current clamps should/could have internal protection for open circuit condition.

[@TheHookUp]

Very true, still good practice though.

[@chineseredneck1211]

Have you tried leaving the "discovered" duplicate devices unplugged and see if the "undiscovered" device gets found?

[@jdorville]

Does the ShellyEM also see grid tie inverters when they over produce on one of the phase? Also it detects solar production from the main lines?

[@TheHookUp]

There is an MQTT topic associated with it, but I don't know if it's supported yet.