Which Sonic is The BEST? (Sonic Frontiers Vs Unleashed)

[@Nativefall]

Which combat style do you think is better? or is there another style I don't know of?

[@PoloSwoolish]

Unleashed is better.

[@mcnuggwtscreations]

Sonic Frontiers

[@viralvillager2875]

Not saying it’s better, but Sonic Battle deserves an honorable mention

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

Frontiers, bc it's got a combo meter that rewards you

[@rayyanfarooqi2167]

Sonic Frontiers for its enemy variety

[@justsans.]

I genuinely always used the combos in Unleashed, mainly both of the charge based attacks, that cartwheel, aerial attacks because of this one attack you punch em upwards and start rapidly hitting, so I hadn’t viewed the Werehog play style the way most people do.

[@tboy10301]

Facts; werehog haters literally just don’t play it right

[@gelmanbegum9934]

@@tboy10301 or don't know about the combos or they play the wii console version .

[@bobtheball5384]

@@tboy10301 That's how I feel tbh- it's the kind of people who just button mash and or come into the game with the attitude of, "UEGH I WANT TO GET THROUGH THIS LEVEL" instead of taking the time to learn some combos and make the most out of the levels.

[@DemonDethchase]

@@bobtheball5384 I found myself mostly running past all the enemies in Frontiers, due to how unengaging they were. With them either dying in one hit, or being too focused on hiding in their boxes, than actually fighting. Also why aren't they being grouped together? Is there some unwritten rule enemies aren't allowed to socialize in Frontiers?

[@josanchez1536]

​@@gelmanbegum9934 as someone who used to not like the wherehog until I learned about the combos and that you can check a list of unlocked combos you have mid level I used to hate werehog stages. But now I love them and it put unleashed from a 6/10 for me to 9/10 on enjoyment.

[@q-tipps3854]

Sonic unleashed felt more God of War inspired while frontiers felt more bayonetta inspired. I like both but the werehog felt more fleshed out with its combat where as Frontiers skill tree felt too small. I hope that they flesh out the combat in the next game a little better.

[@eggynuts7735]

I have no idea what you meant by 'frontiers is like bayonetta' i swear to god these mfs came from the fnf sonic.exe bullshit to say sonic frontiers is the best game when it's objectively one of the worst

[@q-tipps3854]

@@eggynuts7735 the combat in frontiers was more focused on the supermoves similar to the action game bayonetta. But since this game is made for anyone to be able to play it of course is simplified.

[@hydrocityshark]

I’d say Frontiers is better simply for being more in character. The werehog will likely never return due to his reception, but Frontiers has the good press so we’ll probably get more of DMC combat in the future. I’d like to see a sort of battle arena or a mission where Sonic fights waves of enemies in the next game. They seriously need to fix that parry tho… (Edit) looks like it was fixed for the dlc, lol.

[@playerback7722]

Agreed

[@autisticgamer8664]

The parry is way to overpowered

[@hydrocityshark]

@@autisticgamer8664 A good way to fix it would be to have it timed. It should also have a slow down for falling instead of awkwardly floating in air.

[@zechariahcaraballo8765]

I try to only tap parry rather than hold it down, held parrys just feel wrong, if they called it a block it would be fine but a parry should force you to time an attack, thats just the standard right?

[@hydrocityshark]

@@zechariahcaraballo8765 Yes. I’m thinking more in line with Assassins Creed Odyssey. Parries are only held for about a second and it generally gives you an opening for standard attacks and not a super move.

[@Prime_Legend]

At this point I feel there's a massive rivalry between Unleashed and Frontiers. Both games have a big scale, have combat etc.

[@hydrocityshark]

Great ost, graphics, and a simple yet immersive story.

[@Hugo-yz1vb]

And the best Super Sonic fights in all of the franchise

[@jayceallen6530]

Imo, i like that unleashed combat feels more situational than frontiers, as i have lots of ways to combo, like air combos, long swipes,throws,etc. but frontiers combat is more flashy and cool but feels like it was meant more for 1 on 1’s more than anything else, though i do think the enemy variety compliments it a bit. it does fit modern sonic though, but i do think it can be fleshed out further in the future

[@acesamm]

15:51 Well screw you, NF. Despite the game not doing so, I’ve used the combo system on my first playthrough of Unleashed, lol. Real talk though, good video.

[@Vade4545]

I feel like for a combat game in general, unleshed takes the cake, but for a sonic game specifically, id give it to frontiers, its really the sonic style and sonic flow

[@tboy10301]

It sounds to me like combat in unleashed isn’t the werehog’s problem; it’s level design. Everyone always says “it’s too button mashy,” which really translates to “I’m not motivated to play it correctly,” as this video pretty much explains that werehog’s base combat isn’t bad, the player simply isn’t forced to use it. How does something being good, but not restrictive, make it bad?

[@PauloCazaresBelman]

finally someone says it, I think most of the issues in some sonic games are not the mechanics but rather the stages or the enemies, imagine that you bought a cross-headed screwdriver but all your screws have a flat face, it's not the instrument the one who sucks, is just that the situation is not good for that screwdriver

[@angrydiddykong262]

No, that's not the only point he's making. The combat itself is a problem because for what it's going for, it's not pulling it off. Werehog doesn't have variety in terms of enemies to influence combos, he's slow so movement doesn't feel as good as it could feel, and QTE being in everything doesn't do much for it. If I can run through a linear stage in a platformer and not have to do much but boost, let's say like a forces stage, is it necessarily justified only because we are not "forced" to do inputs? Werehog stage design also comes with the combat, which that itself matters because that's how you put up with combat and a lot more. So no, it's not that people are not motivated to play correctly, it's that the design is all over the place meaning you don't have to play the intended design with any effort at all.

[@PauloCazaresBelman]

@@angrydiddykong262 that's what I was trying to go for 😅 it's supposed that the stage helps you to play the way the devs intended but I think they worked so much in the mechanics and not so much in driving you to use the mechanics, but that doesn't mean that the mechanics are perfect 'cause they could at least added a shadow underneath you for the platform sections (looking at you pipes -_-)

[@tboy10301]

@@angrydiddykong262 you’re literally agreeing with me right now man lol You said it yourself that the werehog’s enemies don’t influence combos; not that the werehog doesn’t have combos. the difference between a linear stage and a combat arena is your freedom of exploration in terms of input. You still have that freedom of exploration in a werehog stage. You CAN do combos, but you aren’t FORCED to do any. In conclusion, based on your statement, the Werehog’s problem is not that it’s bad combat, but that it’s good combat against essentially training dummies. Do you know where else you can avoid using the intended play design? spamming In a fighting game or in a training mode.

[@angrydiddykong262]

@@tboy10301 maybe so, but a combo itself will always rely on the level design and enemy to really challenge that. I feel that the combos have the recipe to be something good but I don't think they don't exactly "combo" into anything. It's kind of like how in frontiers you can throw out chains of attacks and depending what happens you can "combo" by following it up with a different chain, but the problem here is that you don't have that freedom with the werehogs attacks making it far more simplified and lacking. That's why I don't think werehogs base combat is good and I'm only arguing that the videos point was to showcase how that falls apart.

[@Khyon521]

I love the fast paced flashiness and the way you can string special attacks togther in Frontiers, but I also like that Unleashed had actual button combos with depth instead of 1 second cutscenes. Both are fire tho

[@raiu_fp5194]

Speed actually increases your boost speed, air boost, and drop dash speed. It’s barely noticeable for power boost tho which can lead people into confusion on how upgrading your speed works

[@playerback7722]

Yep

[@TheReZisTLust]

It's noticable if you have max acceleration speed and boost starter speed lol Extremely noticable if you add in dragging your camera close enough up sonics quills

[@marvelghost324]

In Sonic Frontiers, the only difference between the difficulty of easy, normal and hard is the amount of rings you lose when you get hit.

[@Aioba3846]

The thing about the ring cyloop is that it's pretty much supposed to be an equivalent of a healing spell in an Action RPG... albeit with no requirement of mana, I guess. At most casting it takes a little bit of time, though it depends on the size of the circle.

[@Soulferno]

They're both fairly bare bones in their own way. With Unleashed, there was a combo system but you honestly never needed it. With Frontiers there just wasn't enough to it. Looking cool is nice but when I can max everything out long before I finish the game then there's a problem. Combat needs work if they're going to continue on with it for future titles

[@mrelephante]

One thing is that I really liked sonic's combat at the start of the game, where you lock on and dodge and all that cool stuff, once you unlock skills you don't really need to do much and its much easier, combined with your strength increase makes the later game easier

[@KhaosKontroller]

Frontiers combat is on some smooth brain shit. Werehog has actual depth in its combos. Frontiers is just flashy little cutscenes and constantly running in a circle. Its accessibility sacrifices depth. But I'm not surprised Sonic fans would pick the easier, accessible combat system.

[@mrmelonman2893]

When would u actually use all those moves in unleashed, plus in my opinion frontiers has way more depth since you can cancel moves, parry, and more and the enemy's encourages depth since they all have different ways to take down. Example is tower

[@KhaosKontroller]

@@mrmelonman2893 I use them, whenever I want? The parry is made for toddlers cause it's bloody automatic. The enemies are piss easy. The Dildo is just waiting, running in a circle and then mashing attack, which is applicable to most enemies. The Ninja I thought would be cool but I literally beat that thing in like 30 seconds on my first try.

[@mrmelonman2893]

@@KhaosKontroller bruh that was the first version of ninja

[@isaiahnaegiVODs]

@@KhaosKontroller isn't Ninja like, the first enemy you run into besides a few standard bots?

[@KhaosKontroller]

@@mrmelonman2893 Do they get harder?

[@roiitzkovich4545]

The ending of this video is goated.

[@saniquinho10]

Graphics: Frontiers Story: Tie Sound: Tie Combat: Frontiers Levels: Unleashed Art Direction: Unleashed Bosses: Frontiers Final Boss: Unleashed Characters: Frontiers Gameplay: Frontiers Ending: Unleashed Models: Unleashed Replay: Tie Controls: Frontiers Boost Formula: Unleashed

[@DemonDethchase]

I felt most of the time, in Frontiers, when trying to fight regular enemies they were dying in one hit, or too busy hiding in their boxes, not really being interested in fighting Sonic making it hard to style on them. It really needs actual combo strings, and a lock-on button. Especially for doing moves, because there was more than a few times I was trying to air boost towards enemies and when looking to attack them, I ended getting the Homing Shot coming out when I didn't want it. Also with how OP the Sonic Boom attack was, and how it melts even the Titan's health bar in seconds, I wasn't sure if I was playing Frontiers or Devil May Cry 2 given how OP the guns are in that. But things the next game needs, for expanded combat Expanded Sonic's moveset, like give a more reliable and faster to use launcher for air combos Added a lock-on button to make those moves easier to preform, like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta Add timed button combo strings, Unleash did this 14 years earlier Make the enemies more varied and aggressive With mention of enemies being varied, I mean allow them to socialize given, again, Unleashed did this 14 years earlier Oh, and nerf the parry so that it requires actual timing to preform, and maybe ditch the QTE for the game to start playing itself Plus nerf or ditch the Sonic Boom attack Don't make the bosses dull QTE sessions where the game play itself off the back of a parry which takes no skill to do, I'm looking at you, the Titans! While yes, the sequences do make Super Sonic look strong, but when its the game playing itself, instead of me actually doing any of that stuff, its hard for any of it to feel earned or me to feel to strong.

[@KOTSOSMC2002]

I was almost exclusively upgrading the Werehog's abilities in Unleashed and by the end of the game I still hadn't seen all the movesets it had to offer, I had the entire skill tree unlocked in Frontiers in like 4-5 hours. Enemy variety saved Frontiers from getting repetitive but it lost its magic after a while, it felt too limited. Everything in Unleashed combat-wise to me is really fleshed out and rewarding, the only thing holding it back is enemies being very damage spongy, makes encounters overstay their welcome. Overall they are both great fun but equally flawed, at least Frontiers' combat has the chance to expand and improve, Werehog's gone.

[@SoulKingKurosaki]

I can understand why most would pick Unleashed/Unwiished. There's just a bunch of combos in the game that you rarely use, well, I rarely used. Werehog's charged punch, his charged helicopter attack, the rapid beating of his fists and the drill attack were all I used. Mainly the charged punch and drill attack. I'm sure there's a bunch of other combos that are unique and fun but I never used them, didn't need to use them cuz I had the "crowd control" attacks. With Frontiers, I used everything available and it was fun

[@squidsdontdie]

They should really make a Sonic & Knuckles game (Sonic: Frontiers combat. Knuckles: Werehog: Combat) like how unleashed was supposed top be

[@squidsdontdie]

oooooo fontiers dlc

[@zanobiaoliver]

No joke a manscape ad happened just before this video

[@NixFujiwara86]

Okay if sega wanna make unleashed remastered they should fix one thing for warehog stages which means they need to add combat rank system similar to dmc so people will improve their combat skills successfully

[@BLACKNWHITEFOX1]

Well both sides are good in their own way, but since everything happens in cyberspace. ( it might be the dlc.) But they should let you switch characters on the fly, for combos and stuff. Like Unleashed shoclawken( the werehog uppercut) where sonic starts a combo and finishes with Knuckles doing the uppercut as a combo ender.

[@superflameking03]

Honest I'll take Frontiers's combat over Unleashed's any day, but in comparison and hindsight there doesn't seem to be enough enemy variety in Frontiers, as it's really just the generic triangular-robot-enemy-thingy and the Guardians and that's it. Having more lower-leveled enemies to fight that offer more variety amongst the lower-leveled enemies and I think that would've been PERFECT, otherwise the only thing holding Frontiers back is the lack of enemy variety (there's really only a change when you go to a new island).

[@TheReZisTLust]

It can also depend on if you count fluidity and smoothness, for frontiers I literally can't finish the skill tree cause the command prompts override regular attacks, the most annoying is spin dashing into an enemy but it forces you into his spin dash animation minicutscene. And Shinobi lineage it is bomb and peak boss 🤌 especially when you hit the slow down on her before she multiples and you can watch her speed by in slow mo

[@Dio-zr7ww]

12:52 The speed count actually increases your climbing speed, not non boosting speed.

[@allmightyningen2017]

I like how unleashed has gone from being hated to being one of the games people use to tell if a new release is good

[@whistheangell]

Finnaly, the opposite of the "Sonic cycle"

[@_G.C]

Sonic fans love repeating how bad certain features were more than they do praising the good features

[@WAKKAWAKKA.]

And I'm not gonna lie this kinda unfair because the cyloop digging is actually op and takes out any steaks from the combat but we get on the combos in unleashed not being forced on you (Also I wasn't including frontiers main bosses) Basically I'm saying that he's saying :You're not forced I do any combo's: But who's says you can't use the combos? But in Frontiers he's not making it as big of a deal as he did with unleashed. I may not have presented my point all to well but please tell me you see the contradiction and racis-unfairness... I swear that was a bug

[@unnamed12346]

From someone who loves games like Devil May Cry... I feel it's like this. Unleashed, while it has all these combo strings, admittedly isn't that engaging as people wanna make it out to be, but it's not so much the Werehog's Fault as it is just that style of combat in general I feel (You can have all the strings you want that the game premade for you, but then it's a much more finite pool than if you have a game where they've given you all these moves and while you learn them over time, they also make sure that each move is built so it can be a piece to however you wanna build a combo however you please). It eventually becomes a point of while you have combo strings, most moves that would be interesting to utilize are locked behind those strings, and can't be cancelled into another combo, which inherently by design takes away the speed of the combat. Frontiers, while the moveset is shallow, kind of does have the mechanics of something that would be in DMC, but the issue of it is the fact that it is as shallow it is, and the reality of its combo style is that it's essentially the same singular string that has moves you can attach, which while a bit rich, can get just as stale. As for combat in Sonic or speed platformers in general... I think it can work, but the problem isn't directly just sponge enemies or anything like that as much as it's that one has to build the combat in a way that it isn't a complete juxtaposition to the speed. Make it where utilizing combos a la Devil May Cry in this Sonic game with Combat can give you Damage Multipliers to make mowing down enemies easier, and give Sonic styles of combat like one that focuses on punches and kicks and Spin Attacks, one that's focused on wind projectiles, and a means to cancel out of them however the player wants in a way that keeps the player engaged. If you don't wanna give that combat depth to Sonic alone, we could just as well make it where each playable Sonic Character has their own combat style, and you can switch with them on the fly just like in Heroes, but they swap with your character's place instead of to the other character. Imagine a game where after Homing Attacking with Sonic to launch yourself in the air, you can switch to Knuckles who can Volleyball spike the enemy, then switch to Tails as you Thunder Shoot, and then you can switch back to Sonic and Jump Dash back to a running speed that's decent. That would be amazing.

[@draykohunter6805]

Damn you're cooking something good with this

[@OOFMAJOR]

0:02 RIP letter v

[@allmegamangamesvods1443]

The real OG fans of sonic know that obviously Sonic Battle is the one with the best combat (don't care if the game does or doesn't have combat its still better)

[@amusicdude5564]

I think that a combat gameplay style in Sonic is not a bad idea, but maybe It would fit better for characters like Knuckles and Shadow, especially Shadow: In most of the games ,Shadow is basically a dark Sonic skin, in terms of gameplay, but giving him a more combat-heavy gameplay style(that uses also the "Chaos Control" power) would be a nice way to distinguish him from Sonic without giving him guns or motorcycles.

[@evdestroy5304]

I think they're both even. Frontiers has a higher enemy variety and is incorporated into Sonic's moveset better while Unleashed has a more fleshed out combat system, has harder enemies, and you can't infinitely parry to instakill enemies. Edit: I don't understand why you kept knocking Unleashed for being button mashy. Meanwhile, you never mentioned that for Frontiers despite it literally having an auto-combo mode. Same for the skill ceiling, you say that they're both equally as easy as one another yet also mention how you can cheese pretty much any fight in Frontiers just by holding down the parry button. I'm not saying Unleashed's combat is hard (which it is, especially by Eggmanland), but there's still a noticeable gap in the skill required by both games. It takes like half a minute to defeat Frontiers' final boss.

[@draykohunter6805]

I agree it seems he had trouble consistently burying the lede, if at all

[@Dr.Meme-Man]

With the DLC coming out soon, do you think this gives Sonic Team the opportunity to improve on the combat mechanics of Frontiers?

[@donathan2933]

Most definitely

[@crimsonzone8984]

I want the combat to be more in sonic's character and nature. Letting one enemy get away would spawn or lead to more enemies. enemies should be weak but have a huge number of them or be like an army for sonic to avoid as many attack and rapid fire as possible. Their must also be a mix between combat and platforming. Sonic Unleashed should've applied much platforming in combat. And I believe a combination of action style and high speed style would work even better in Sonic Frontiers. (And the art style. I really don't like the model design of the characters. It just feels like they're still in the meta era.)

[@Nothavinit00]

I prefer the combat in Sonic Frontiers. Unleashed felt too easy for me to defeat enemies. Frontiers allowed me to pull off calculated fighting combos all while being brutal to the enemies. Not to mention that it makes Sonic look like a total badass. 😎 I was supposed to watch this earlier this evening but I wasn't feeling well. Either way, great work like usual. 👍

[@playerback7722]

Same

[@dracogram9580]

I personally thought frontiers combat was too easy and unleashed combat wasn't,but I think the edge frontiers combat has over unleashed is that it actually does a good job at teaching you how to use it.

[@hardroar368]

This entire segment fucking killed me XD 12:02

[@kcculla]

I think I would enjoy frontiers much more if sonic team made it with a less open style. I think sonic unleashed had the perfect level style for me, since levels were easy to find and I wasn't forced into spending so much time in the hub world. With the frontiers combat system, they could get speed and combat sections in the same level, and the levels will be longer than a minute long. I've hated the shorter level design since Forces, and the open world style is getting overused right now

[@ajbanimatedstudios5014]

As much as I love unleashed. I feel like the frontiers combat can take the cake. Sonic is fast, fun, energetic, and I just love how snappy he feels. Like a lightning bolt! ⚡️

[@JoeContext]

I feel like both of them have potential that they don't live up to, but Frontiers combat has the opportunity to get improved in future games. I feel like the Werehog's last chance might be an Unleashed remaster like Colors and Generations, which I hope happens so much

[@BatMane95]

Haven't played Frontiers, but I really like the combat of Unleashed though I only use the combo where Sonic spins like a wheel.

[@s.c.u.m3501]

My answer is 8 words. Undefeatable, Break through it all, Find your flame.

[@deslardesslok]

Just got the CD soundtrack for this game today at 2:25p.m. and it's the Planetary Pieces Sonic World Adventure Original Soundrack CD and I'm listening to it while watching this! 7:49p.m. 6/15/2023

[@donnawright33]

Cool video. So this is basically like Breath Of The Wild vs Twilight Princess since Sonic is a Legend Of Zelda fan.

[@akdreamer6497]

Did wanna say, the speed upgrade does ACTUALLY make your total speed faster, not just for non-boosting. It's especially evident in the powerboost, where the percentage difference is more noticeable.

[@alexfraser8352]

The drop dash is useful for going across the icy parts of the mountains in chaos island

[@natoriousthehopeful2786]

Oh this is an EASY pick for me, because I will take Frontier's combat over Unleashed any day of the week! It's a more dynamic and over the top spectacle to be a part of: plus, most of the enemies aren't damage sponges

[@EmuleelArts]

Honestly the argument against Unleashed’s combat is a very stalemate kind of argument (specifically the one about it being boring cause it’s repetitive). Yes it is completely fair to fault the game for not encouraging the player, both in visual tutorials and enemy types. But at the same time, the game never discourages the player either. If the player just button mashes the same few combos and decides it’s boring, there’s no reason for them to not actually take the time to learn new ways to fight (as someone that’s basically memorised the skill list, it definitely makes repeated playthroughs a lot more interesting). I definitely understand the QTEs are a hit or miss depending on who you ask, but honestly doing cool cinematic finishes with the press of a button always works for me (that’s just my take tho, if you feel different, fair enough). And of course I love frontiers combat too, while I do wish the skill tree itself was just a little bit bigger as the moves available get a little stale to see repeatedly so often, there’s something very satisfying about the combat and all the different kinds of enemies that each have different windows of opportunity to defeat. While the parry being unlimited is definitely busted, there’s nothing more satisfying than parrying an enemy trying to attack you mid combo and dealing a grand slam in retaliation. I love how cinematic each special move is, like almost every one of them could be an amazing finishing blow. Definitely makes for the best super sonic fights but that’s a no brainer. Tldr, I love both games for varying reasons so I feel happy regardless 😊

[@draykohunter6805]

😊

[@kidman1312]

Honestly I've decided that frontiers is a step up from unleashed, but before frontiers, UNLEASHED WAS THE BEST BY FAR! I'm glad someone brings up the two since they are just the best of the worst and best at the same time

[@pinkdiamond2242]

My man said you are UNDEFEATABLE IN SONIC FRONTIERS HEHEHEHE

[@gazzagog]

I mean Sonic Frontiers Combat is not necessary since there's fishing mini game which can give you ANYTHING from kocos to cyberspace gears and the only moments where combat is necessary is in super sonic boss fights

[@mcnuggwtscreations]

Can you do a video on which Sonic game has the best super sonic? Or would the answer be way too obvious?

[@sophiadebar382]

“Why does the parry not require skill on hard??” Oh wow it’s like they watched this video and went “you want hard?? You’ll get hard!”

[@requiem550]

15:52 I didn’t because I know how to experiment rather than be spoon fed everything I can do

[@moonlightdiamonds9758]

Your right! ROUGE ISNT IN EITHER!!! >:C Love the analysis man, giving both sides equal ground can be pretty tough.

[@thelogicsonic5980]

Wasn’t rouge mentioned in game by sonic

[@hydrocityshark]

Maybe the DLC will give us something?

[@Kiezly]

The secret correct answer is Sonic Battle

[@DZerks]

This is hard to choose bunny babe

[@Nativefall]

What in the...there are like 4 people calling me bunny babe? Lol

[@DZerks]

@@Nativefall don’t worry bunny babe it’ll be alright

[@ethejumper6568]

@@DZerks *Cough* Simp! *Cough*

[@mrmelonman2893]

@@Nativefall I mean .... just look at your character. Should've saw it coming

[@DZerks]

@@ethejumper6568 no I’m not simping for bunny babe

[@Off_lucci]

the issue is on how you asked the question "is BEST for SONIC" that would be frontiers but which combat is better overall its unleashed

[@Naruku2121]

Unleashed Combat I don't think it's bad but despite the combo variety you don't really get clued off on the types of moves you can do, and sure you can experiment your self, but most people probably just found that one one or two combos they liked and called it a day (In my case the beating on the ground move and the Cartwheel Move) Frontiers isn't inherently better, but what it does have is presentation, and spectacle. Presentation in that for better or worse the game does make sure you're aware of combos and what you can do and even allows you to practice when you unlock a move, so more people are more willing to try moves out cause it's in their face and see how it flows. Then I guess the spectacle of the high speed combat carries it even though it kind of falls apart with how parrying timing is basically irrelevant, it's flashy, but the combat doesn't force you into combat like Unleashed so it doesn't over stay it's welcome. And even if it does? You can just up and leave most enemy and even mini-boss encounters. Not to mention the combat scales up the spectacle in Super Sonic Boss fights, and while in some aspects its the same attack structure as before, it works to the game's favor because they don't really have to learn an entire new moveset for Super Sonic, but figure out how to incorporate what they already know about the combat but in a more powerful and flashy way. Even just dropping the infinite guard/parry state in hard mode could do wonders for the combat's skill ceiling.

[@kindasomeviews]

While you do mash about 90% of the time in Unleashed, you dont simply abuse a button or two to never die at all in a playthru unlike in Sonic Frontiers. That game is literally Baby Mode and the auto-combo feature on top of busted AF parry makes it even easier. Unleashed is legit harder towards the end of the game yet more balanced overall, with the pacing being it's biggest strike against it, but even then, it's not saying much once you realize you wont be going over 100mph in werehog form (btw you can use the aerial drill attack and unleashed mode to go faster if dashing didnt do the job). The stages are designed for you to take your time anyway, since there're puzzles and careful platforming involved so expecting to go really fast is just typical sonic fan behavior. I would mention how the Frontiers fans simply cant defend themselves when it comes to dealing which of these gameplays are objectively better, but i believe i've made my case clear-cut that Unleashed objectively has the better combat. The upgrade system was already in a league of it's own too. Just to throw this out there since I've been seeing this issue since Day 1 of this debate, just because the combat FEELS good, doesnt mean it IS good, and that's the biggest issue that Frontiers fans struggle with for this topic. I believe that's all Sega wanted to ensure that the game gets as many sales as possible, which makes sense, especially when they blew their budget mostly on marketing and graphics. Oh and good job overlooking the many moves that Werehog Sonic can have while Im one of the fewer players that fully explored it.

[@espurrseyes42]

Variety: Both games have those few combos that just win the game for you. Frontiers has some encouragement to use certain moves, but with so few moves, it's not all that much of an accomplishment. I don't need encouragement to use Werehog moves. They look cool. And there's a lot of them. As for enemies, anything not a Guardian in Frontiers gets wooped by basic attacks, Cyloop, or Cyloop into basic attacks. And Guardians are TOO varied. You've got the Ninjas that are just good-ass action game enemies... and then you have a bunch of gimmicks for better or worse. See Shark for that latter one, Ghost for the former, and I'd argue leaning closer to Shark in general. As for Unleashed... it's aight. You can generally just beat on stuff, but it's nice having easily throwable enemies, enemies vulnerable to having things thrown at them, air enemies you can Hammer out of the sky, etc. Nothing really wrong with them. Progression: "Combat" issue aside, it's a standard EXP system. Frontiers has an unnecessary Skill Tree for all 12 moves it has, and the dumb secondary stats. I could go into how leveling bad all the stats are, but this isn't about that. There's not much to unlock, and doing it is either standard, or mind-numbingly stupid. Fun: They're both fun in their own right. I however prefer to have more than 15 moves in an action game and a limit to the silly gimmicks. For a game that allegedly borrowed more from DMC, Frontiers sure didn't do it enough. I also don't enjoy floating in the air for 40 seconds, nigh invincible and ready to slow time and beat booty when my Parry gets triggered.

[@soldierofkazus]

For me there's one important category not represented here: Significance. Combat is not the entirety of either of these games, so how does the combat contribute to the other parts? In my opinion, Frontiers fails on this aspect, because the rewards from combat are things that you can easily obtain in other ways; fishing ended up being the most rewarding use of my time, cyloop could technically be used to grind for every single thing you could get from combat, and barring both of those for being cheap, you could just run around the island doing platforming challenges and breaking storage containers and get at least comparable results, not to mention combat doesn't even get you koco and purple coins if you're after either of those for any reason. I mostly avoided combat after I'd fought an enemy once. However, there is one upside in that if you're _looking_ for combat, it can make the exploration itself more rewarding. Running around trying to fill up your map is a good way to find enemies like the Tank and the Spider. I haven't actually played Sonic Unleashed myself to know if it's better or worse in that regard. It's on my list I just haven't gotten to it yet. But at least I know you can't just not engage with the combat and still have the same game.

[@damiancruz42]

7:38 Cue song

[@meekstone8120]

Before watching the video: Werehog on a technical basis has the more fleshed out combat with more combos and the then moves that he can do. However even as someone who’s been playing Unleashed consistently, I never use more than maybe 10 combo moves and they’re all the best ones that you can unlock after completing the first Werehog stage. Frontiers on the other hand, again technical, has a very little to the combat compared to Werehog, but it’s an opposite case in its use. I use every and all skill that I unlock at one point or another (aside from auto-combat). Yes there are obvious metas like stomp and Sonic Boom, but those are definitely more geared toward speedrunning than a casual playthrough. Also the skills are genuinely more fun. Frontiers has the better combat imo

[@retro2409]

For me it's kinda hard to choose, as i played the PS2 port of Sonic Unleashed, and haven't played frontiers yet

[@TheAlphazoneYT]

PS2 version is an entirely different game than the HD versions

[@retro2409]

@@TheAlphazoneYT exactly, for years i didnt even know, i played the worst version of the game

[@claimingagate]

07:38 i won't give up till the end of me

[@CraftPack]

Werehog easily🔥👍🏻

[@WAKKAWAKKA.]

Your opinion is as factual as the moon being made of chocolate pudding Only my opinion in the entire sonic community is correct

[@enternamehere3759]

you're not the main character, bruh

[@WAKKAWAKKA.]

@@enternamehere3759 Then who is?

[@enternamehere3759]

@@WAKKAWAKKA. nobody, simple as that.

[@WAKKAWAKKA.]

@@enternamehere3759 Nobody you say? Dragon ball is trash, Sonic is trash, Zelda is trash, Pac-Man is trash, TMNT is trash,

[@WAKKAWAKKA.]

@@enternamehere3759 Everybody is trash except me of course

[@Lucian1012]

Talking about Dark Souls while having Elden Ring gameplay💀

[@shadybadger7896]

Talking about Ninja being deep when I end up killing it in a matter of seconds and not remembering any variant at all

[@thatguyyoumightfindatthest9807]

*Looks at camera* Both? Both. Both is good

[@VampireA1056]

Both are in my top 3 Sonic games but Unleashed is my number 1 favorite.

[@PauloCazaresBelman]

20:17 I was watching this video taking notes and then I saw my game due to the Sonic Fangame First part, you got my off guard pal lmaoo PS: I was taking notes not because I will implement a combat system like frontiers or unleashed in my game that will show up in the SFF but I'm taking notes for another game that I got planned 👀

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Huh, how very interesting, fair and valid points and opinions. I wonder how they will develop combat in future titles?

[@Doobie-kx8fk]

Unleashed. It's less flashy but feels more engaging than Frontiers

[@exr_879]

12:54 The speed stat upgrade actually makes your boosting (both air and ground) speed faster and dropdash more powerful. The basic movement is completely unaffected. Opinion wise, I played Frontiers through and am playing Unleashed through. I think werehog combat is completely fine, actually, I'm enjoying it, it's just the platforming is really fucked up. The physics are wonky and the grappling ability either works or doesn't, same for jumping off a pole.

[@Acermani456]

You never talked about how fast of boosting

[@KingCookie_III]

Unleashed will always be better for me The crazy combos you can pull off when leveling up your combat Stat to the max makes the game highly replayable Styling on your enemies may not be required, but it is fun

[@karenbonds264]

So… Since Sonic Frontiers has better beat-em-up combat, I think if we ever get a from-scratch remake of Unleashed, it could take a page from Doom Eternal. Imagine it, first person combat, but with fists instead of guns, has more precise platforming, enemies that encourage different combos, and the QTE’s basically a PG-13 Glory Kill. Also, Jazz Metal remixes that are unique to every night stage.

[@RL-DarkSpark]

PG 13 glory kill? 💀 *Rips out spine cutely*

[@spark9189]

honestly, i feel like the best game series to take inspiration from would be kingdom hearts edit: or fucking pso2, which it already takes animations from because it's also a sega game

[@ethejumper6568]

12:05 Great Edit, Nativefall. No one will find you since you´re in Creative Mode.

[@kanitopher2243]

I think I was one of the rare people who played Sonic Unleashed on their PS3 until last year lol, I do agree that Frontiers is more simple but the fact that Sonic gets too powerful and almost invincible kills the fun imo. and Sonic Unleashed is better lol

[@erolandtaylan8291]

Thax for the video I’m sick and this has really helped thax

[@CassiusStelar]

She? Only one variant of ninja is confirmed female, the Kunoichi. Shinobi means male ninja, and the regular and master variants are left vague because it's a robot and that doesnt really matter

[@KilosFoxo]

the parry could still be changed to stay as it is but mabye make it so that having perfect timing lets you do the grand slam, and slows time down

[@beanmchocolate3900]

Sonic Unleashed also reuses the model for meseta from PSO2. 400 rings is nothing if your defense is bad. You’ll take 3 hits, and you’ll be out. They need to add batch leveling to Frontiers. Upgrading your speed DOES increase your boost speed. Max level speed means you can have 0 rings, and power boost ANYWHERE. Basically, more rings with 0 level speed means Sonic has faster boost. The the closer to max rings you got, the faster you boost. Speed basically makes your base speed faster. I like both, honestly. With Sonic, you’re going to get some level of jank. It’s inevitable. But I don’t care. As long as it’s playable, and I have a good time with it. (Don’t play Sonic 06 without Legacy of Solaris, or just go for Project 06)

[@espurrseyes42]

You can get those lost rings back by running in circles, and you won't lose them if you just abuse the broken no skill Parry. Defense REALLY doesn't matter. I guess Speed isn't bad, but with how long it takes to upgrade (no, patching a fix in doesn't change this stance since it never should've needed a patch to begin with), it's just better to run in circles and get Power Boost.

[@azk1989]

i prefer the frontiers storyline and combat But for cosmetics like levels design or CGI animation i prefer Unleashed Literally that both games are equally amazing

[@rantzntirades1104]

In sonic frontiers, I feel incentivised to never upgrade the ring count. Less rings means faster time to fill up the rings and get faster boost. Sonic unleashed makes sonic feel like a force of nature and has the better physics in my opinion. Sonic frontiers is a sonic adventure game with a boost mechanic and is fun to send sonic flying with the boost and skip portions of stages but things like wall running need to be refined.

[@hm-gd4te]

yeah but if you get level 99 speed you always have speed demon activated

[@jacanaable]

In general it think both are in my top 1 of best Sonic games.

[@HedgehogY2K]

15:47 there is no way in Hell you only used 3 combos. Even without looking at the list you should feel the instinct to explore more moves just by trial and error alone. This is a you problem, not the game's. I over used the Spinning Needle Attack to get through Eggman Land. YOU WILL NEED THESE OTHER POWER MOVES FOR EGGMAN FREAKING LAND!

[@ShadowDante7]

I think Frontiers has the better combat but personally I still love Unleashed more as a game

[@milesstorzillo7650]

My pick goes 1000% to Unleashed. And no, I'm not biased because Unleashed is my favorite in the series (HD anyways, for all I care the SD version can collect dust). After all, as much as I love that game there is no way I can rank its soundtrack higher than Rise of Lyric's, which happens to be my 2nd favorite. Just like how I won't say Rise of Lyric's combat is better than Frontiers.

[@Jordanlovellaussie]

I honestly like werehog equally to frontiers maybe it’s because I grew up with sonic unleashed but still they both are good

[@Yanquii]

Sonic Frontiers needed a health bar bro…

[@funnature8679]

13:36 i think that is meant to reach a certain cap so sonic can have more xp to learn.

[@supersonictrickster4239]

So what's funny is that Sonic Frontiers' easiness has a workaround that I've noticed more and more people (including myself)using , that being simply not leveling up. The boss fights are actually super involved believe it or not, but nobody really makes it to phase two because the boss usually dies beforehand. So here's how I'd fix the combat: Add Unleashed's combos of light and heavy attacks (were there mediums? Idk) And maybe make the attack animations a smidge faster. Also tweak the balance so that certain moves aren't as busted and so parrying actually takes some skill. Fixing leveling would also be beneficial. That is all.

[@draykohunter6805]

A happy medium between the two

[@Masatonittanitta]

Which Sonic is THE BEST???

[@darx7684]

The combat of Unleashed may be more diverse, but tactilely it is done SO badly that all its advantages crumble into dust. So Frontiers wins without question at all.