Which Tyranid Is Best In Melee | Warhammer 40k Tyranids 10th Ed

Welcome to the Hive Mind! Today we are going to into an Analytical look all of our melee threats in the Tyranid codex. We'll look to see who is the best a dealing damage and who is the most points efficient when it comes to dealing damage.
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[@jameszeropr]

The points efficiency per kill table was great! So important to have some metric to use during list building. The breakdown by enemy unit really helps to figure out the correct role for each unit as well!

[@bbow4972]

As a professional data analyst i love the way you put this together. The points per kill/wound is a great metric to consider.

[@RedBurningSoul]

"Threats" 😂

[@exion101]

It's a crying shame that you didn't do a toxicrene deep dive for April fools! 😅 Useful video dude. Might even get me to begrudgingly bring some genestealers to my next game.

[@maelstromgamingstudios5240]

That would have been a great idea!! Shoot.. next year!

[@ashleyharris4114]

I run 3x Toxicrene in all my "Winning" Tyranids lists. Winning on style points, not actually winning winning. 😅

[@exion101]

@@ashleyharris4114 "winning" at accidentally knocking over all the terrain more like it! 😅

[@TLPlants]

Loved this. The efficiency of points per wounds dealt really scratched an itch I didn't know I had. I also liked that you mentioned that they not all units are meant to be damage dealers. I've never seen Hormagaunts as anything more than a quick chaff unit to take objectives and to get in the way of your opponent. Looking forward to a shooty vid.

[@dean22593]

Great video, would love to see a video on our bugs shooting. 👍

[@burps20]

Yes, please do the shooty units too! Great video!

[@TheSpectralFX]

This was great info! I'd love to see shooting profiles for termagants with/without the buff of a tervigon.

[@craighoyland4126]

Really useful video thank you! Yes please do the same for the shooting units.

[@MrNicster]

I would definitely also be interested in durability and ranged damage statistics.

[@jaanoseesti]

Points efficiency table was great, love to see it.

[@gorgrum]

Points per wound is very helpful! Love it!

[@warotvasapinyokul8281]

Nice, I like the point per kill table.

[@mize6544]

I’m just getting started in 40K, and my first army will be Nids. Thanks so much for making this, it helps to have an idea for what units are viable and which aren’t! Can’t wait to watch your other videos! Also, as someone with a 3D printer, it would be awesome to know how hierodules stack up as many people still have ways to get their hands on them!

[@Vortenger]

Points per kill is great metric for efficiency. Not the only one, but a needed benchmark.

[@oldmate86]

You've earned a sub. Great video which has helped make up my mind about what units to take next game. Thanks!

[@user-sm6yf7yl6b]

I’ve been really enjoying running a block of genestealers with a broodlord, being able to punch up is really nice for infantry I think effective toughness is also relevant - you don’t really want to point lascannons at genestealers but other things do chew through them

[@SC-gf8sg]

Not sure how the Warriors with Prime do less wounds to a Catan then the Raveners do? Warriors have re-roll 1s to hit, Sustained 1, Twin Linked and AP -2. The Raveners only have Twin Linked and are AP -1.

[@91elpiris]

I think there's something wrong in the Warriors' calculations too. Also, this chart is useful but tyranids are more complex than their datasheets. For example warriors have synapse so they are a great recipe for invasion fleet stratagems, which is not reflected here in any way. I agree that the haruspex is the best per-point hitter in a vacuum, but with stratagem and neurolictor support other units can get better value. And lastly, as he points out, units like the Hive Tyrant or the Norn are pointed based on other traits (utility and tankiness, respecitvely) than their melee output.

[@timlowesmusic]

I recalculated, warrior calculation is way off. They are much better than displayed

[@dantejrl]

very interesting and revealant. great job!

[@robertimbs3229]

This was very useful, thank you Craig! Shooting comparison would be great too :D

[@LukeOReillyIRL]

Great insights! Points per kill is super helpful (and essential, I think). Thank you! Why were Lictors/Deathleaper not included? I *think* they’re quite efficient versus Intercessors and Gravis armor.

[@Skrilla189]

This is great info! Please do the shooting one as well 🙏🏻✌🏻

[@elduderino9199]

Awesome content. Thank you!!! :)

[@davidschieno2385]

Love this video! Melee nids are my favorite lists! I’d love to see this with the added detachment breakdowns. Like genestealers are great, but put them in Invasion Fleet with critting on 5+ with the strat is a massive damage boost! I use the hive tyrant to cast Adrenal Surge for 0 cp to really up my melee damage. One unit has to be within 12” to cast for free then the second unit just needs to be within synapse

[@Uendil]

Loved the video, please do a shooting profile one 😊

[@Dewoy1]

Thanks! This was pretty helpful. Please dp the shooty one too! And any deep dives are also appriciated. I m so hungry for Tyranid contehnt! Some things i m still not really sure of though, like with the Flying Hive Tyrant or the Carifexes, do you get the Talons and Chitinous claws and teeth on top of everything else you equip them with? Or is it strinktly weapon slot A and B + things with Extra Attacks as keyword?

[@torbenschulz31]

That's amazing, thank you for that much effort. Is there a similar calculation but with missile?

[@natedumas928]

Finally expanding my nids past the leviathan box, the points per kill breakdown is extremely helpful. Was very stuck between getting hormagaunts or genestealers, but this highlighted how much more efficient genestealers are

[@HiveFleetOni]

This was awesome, thanks so much for doing it. It spawns a load of questions though, particularly about how Enhancements change the numbers. A good example would be: “What is the best unit to put Parasitic Biomorphology on?” in Assimilator. First, how does it change up the damage for a Hive Tyrant in those tables? Second, how does it change up the damage of the Broodlord/Genestealers combo, or the Prime/Melee Warriors combo? And how does that compare to the somewhat ridiculous Tyrant + 6 Tyrant Guard combo?

[@BillWD]

Very useful, I had stayed away from genestealers owing to their fragility, and they don't benefit from swarm regeneration strat I don't think; but I may give them a try now. Haruspex is always targeted quickly but it can be useful fishing for wounds against armigers and war digs if you put lethal hits on it too with invasion fleet.

[@MarkKengen]

Points per kill is a v important metric, however as you pointed out it doesn't give the full picture, the most obvious thing to consider is the durability of the unit. Maybe that could be another video? Comparing durability per point against different common weapon profiles

[@Thorrgrimn]

Great Video. Would love to see the same again but with different collumns factoring in some key detachment/ strategem battle shock buffs etc. 👍

[@jonnyvvaughan]

very good analysis my dude but I would consider that synapse is the hidden winner here

[@lytestealth5989]

Really good information and clear. How does invasion fleet detachment amplify these numbers though?

[@Magnumsonly]

The biggest thing on hormagaunts is that they have 60 attacks which means lethal hits turns them into much better units. The same goes for any buff you can do.

[@nathannault2239]

Would love to see another one of these after the next dataslate. Really hoping nids get some significant buffs, eliminating our secondary cheese is going to destroy our scoring capabilities!

[@adamcarr1387]

Really enjoyed this one! I like math hammer

[@scolack123]

The points thing is great. Ive done the same breakdowns before Thanks for the work that this took!! The screamer killer vs haruspex deserves a defensive wounds per point to compare since the screamer is only 20 higher points And a 2+ save is signficiantly better than a 3+ save (though t9 vs t11 and 10 wounds vs 14) So would love to see screamer killer vs: Lasgun or Bolt rifle Las cannons Etc How defensive is the screamer vs haruspex

[@stuartmajor8989]

This was grate, can we see the shooting. Also with different detachment would be grate.

[@Square_Planar]

Very helpful video, but I'm curious about how you did the maths behind the tables. By my reckoning, 6 warriors with a prime, hitting on 3s reroll 1s, wounding on 4s rerolling, with sustained hits and the attacks from the prime will average 15 wounds to a unit of terminators. I'm curious where we differ on our calculations.

[@arhramor]

Interesting. Would be neat to see how our strategems affect this. Are there breakpoints that would significantly buff certain units per detachment?

[@bradlees5997]

I had a cheeky 1,000point game against Death corps of Kreig this week, my Genestealers with Broodlord and Winged Prime and 6 warriors carried the game. The shredded everything they came into contact with. My mates brand new Ogryn took a turn one charge and got sliced and diced his first time putting them on the tabeltop I almost felt bad but my Genestealers were fat and happy haha

[@torandreasbelsaas]

How good did the genestealers survie ageinst stuff, I have played for a while and I play at 2000 points, but I have been thinking of adding one maby two squads of genestealers with broodlords but have been hesetating beacuse they have poor saves ageinst some stuff. It dosent matter how strong they are if they get killed before they get in meele

[@bradlees5997]

@@torandreasbelsaas well after the Ogryn I managed to charge the 10 man unit and Broodlord into two tanks and kept them tied up, they managed to destroy one of the tanks after a couple of turns due to the dev wounds from the Broodlord, and got the other tank down to its last few wounds. From what I remember it my mate awhile to cut them down but I know what you mean in other games I’ve had the Genestealers have been shot off the board first two turns

[@mon929]

well, thats changed my view on stealers. Iv been playing warrior heavy vanguard lists. Any chance for a vid like this but for shooting? Thanks!

[@TheXasTube]

points per kill/wound is imho the most important statistic.

[@TheFacehouse]

We left off the Tyrant Guard...which I realize isn't something you would take on it's own but I'd be curious to see it with a Walking Hive Tyrant.

[@Lord_Aba]

Tyrant Guard are WAY too pillow-fisted. At least put them with a Neurotyrant for the +1 to hit.

[@ominousowlman7504]

I would love to see damage per point along with points per kill

[@jonc.6046]

Maybe I missed it, but was damage from ranged attacks while in melee factored in? Seems like that could be a pretty big factor for some of the monsters.

[@maxreis9534]

How dod you calculate the warrior damage table? I calculated a similar table and warriors were better than stealers

[@thatnme07]

What a good question! My bet is Broodlord!

[@thatnme07]

OMG I was right!!!

[@fdehands7494]

So if I have lets say a tyrannofex with acid spray and it gets salvo too can I use both of those in one turn? Same with carnifex teeth?

[@BoxerFadlan]

Do the shooting ones now please!

[@timlowesmusic]

The melee warrior calculation is wrong. I'm not sure what you've done, but they average 12 marines, or 6 wounds onto a land raider. The prime gives them sustained 1, the warriors have twin linked. This is with re-roll 1s to hit

[@exile650]

Would have liked to see the Malaceptor rather than the Toxicrene. Though I'm not against more Toxicrene bullying.

[@joshuamoore9033]

What about malecepters?!

[@BLUEBOYISLEDGE]

They are dogshit in melee

[@ANDELE3025]

@@BLUEBOYISLEDGEWhat are you on about? its the monster scything talon statblock as it should have been (strike/sweep option) except for the damage (floor) being 2 (from d6+1) instead of 3.

[@BLUEBOYISLEDGE]

@@ANDELE3025 they are dogshit in melee. An S9 strike profile with 3 attacks sucks.

[@ANDELE3025]

@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE Compared to murderous armies like old ed nids or current WE/CSM/any knights and titans, yes because for some reason GW decided to balance nids around every list running 3 neurolictors. For current nids (and all other score and debuff armies), no its average wounds be per fight for a monster, but without the chaff tax non S/S scything talons of tyrants are suffering from.

[@BLUEBOYISLEDGE]

@@ANDELE3025 sounds like a roundabout way of agreeing with me that their melee sucks

[@travis1508]

What about hierodules?

[@AgoristDryad]

Hierophant?

[@danielhammer619]

The Haruspex has a total of 18 attacks that hits on 3s and wound on 2s versus Guardsmen. Why would that only result in 8 dead? Maybe my math is a bit fuzzy but that seems a bit too low.

[@maelstromgamingstudios5240]

14 small attacks = about 9 hits, 7-8 wounds and guard get 5+ saves. So 5-6 go through. 4 big attacks, about 3 hit, 3 wound they get 6+ saves. So yeah 8-9 dead on average.

[@danielhammer619]

@@maelstromgamingstudios5240 What do you mean guardsmen get a 5+ save? The 14 attacks have AP1, so the guardsmen get a 6+ save. The big attacks have AP 2 so the guardsmen get no save. Is there something im missing, an ability or something that would give the guardsmen a 4+ save? Because according to wahapedia, they have a 5+ save

[@Lord_Aba]

@@danielhammer619His chart has the 4+, so that is what his numbers are based on. I guess it is helpful for Kasrkin, Scions, or Firewarriors. Also the "Take Cover" order now just straight up improves your armor save, so normal guardsmen can have nearly army-wide 4+ saves.

[@danielhammer619]

@@Lord_Aba i must have missed the 4+ part

[@neeumph9174]

No hierodule?

[@hugosz283]

The toxicrene still got robbed, his dmg aura was omitted and he's a unit that's pretty balanced between shooting and melee. Not saying he's great but no need to kick the guy while he's down

[@aarondevries423]

Second

[@user-sm6yf7yl6b]

First

[@SumsieBun]

Wow the Emissary is just so unbelievably awful. I really shouldn’t have wasted my money on that thing

[@Lord_Aba]

Using it in melee is a trap. You need to sit it on a midfield objective since it is pretty tough... if it can contribute to wounds by shooting so much the better! Though yeah... most lists that have a Norn monster are better off by taking a Haruspex and another unit of gaunts.

[@scolack123]

Rule of cool Its a badass model

[@Monstergirl-ologist]

my darling melee guants bad?

[@Lord_Aba]

Depends... with no support they have a tough time against anything, especially elite infantry (looking at you Custodes). Invasion fleet gives them Lethal Hits against vehicles, so a unit of them can shave off a surprising big amount of wounds off a vehicle. Otherwise given how Tyranids play, just having 20 bodies to chew through will win you games.

[@keithclark6724]

How can you do a video on our damage without taking into consideration all the possible damage mods? Melee warriors can have +1 hit & wound, re roll 1, twin linked, sustained with vanguard. In invasion fleet they have re roll 1 to hit, +1 wound, twin linked , sustained and lethal v vehicle/monsters and can crit on 5+.

[@maelstromgamingstudios5240]

Like I said at the beginning, these are base profiles. When I go into a Deep Dive for each unit, that's when I got in depth with those buffs.